---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  2nd Annual Music City Brew-Off Oct. 25 (Steve)
  Kegs in Australia (Simon Charlton)
  Homebrew and the law (Louis Bonham)
  RIMS Heater Housing ("Raymond C. Steinhart")
  RE: Color as calculated vs. real in glass (Fredrik Staahl)
  German Weizen (Rick Gontarek)
  Lagering in Kegs (Rich Hampo)
  mashing pale ale malt ("Alan McKay")
  RE: Color as calculated vs. real in glass (MED)" <Frederick.Wills at amermsx.med.ge.com>
  Re: Rogue "Pacman" yeast (nlerner)
  Starch? Help? ("John Penn")
  Re: Aarons Excellent Comments... (Joe Rolfe)
  Demo Brewing (TheTHP)
  Cyser question (John Wilkinson)
  Koelsch, Ferulic acid (George J Fix)
  Panty Hose/Oxygenation (Darrell)
  RO water & PH (Matt Gadow)
  Holiday Ale Recipe (703)695-0552" <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil>
  Tan Chunks in Fermenter ("Eric Priceman")
  RE: re: A third batch goes down (Luc Dore)
  Hop/Trub filter / Sam Smith ("Andrew Avis")
  Schwarzbier yeast selection / Winter Warmers (John McCafferty)


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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:14:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve <JOHNSONS at UANSV5.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: 2nd Annual Music City Brew-Off Oct. 25

The Music City Brewers homebrewing club is proud to announce the 2nd
Annual Music City Brew-Off, Saturday, Oct. 25, 1997 at Boscos Nashville
Brewing Company in Nashville, TN.

We invite all homebrewers to submit entries in any of the AHA recognized
style categories at a cost of $5 per entry (3 bottles), and $4 for each
additional entry.  Entries will be accepted at Boscos in Nashville, c/o
Chuck Skypeck, 1805 21st Ave South, Nashville, TN  37212 between Friday,
Oct. 10 and Friday, Oct. 17.  This year, we are not allowing entry walk-
ins on the day of the competition.  Entry details can be found at our
club website (address has been corrected since post here several weeks ago!)

http://www.theporch.com/~homebrew1

If you would like to speak with one of us, we can be reached at the following:
Steve Johnson   615-327-4100
John MacDougall 615-383-4038
Chuck Bernard   615-902-9177

or by e-mail at:   JOHNSOSM at CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU

This notice is an invitation to homebrewers and qualified judges and stewards
who are interested in participating in what should prove to be a great
weekend in Nashville.  This year, we are expanding our prize pool from 8
to 13 pre-combined prize categories.  Judges in this AHA sanctioned event 
will be judging beers in all of the AHA approved style and sub-style
categories, with some styles being combined with other styles to facilitate
one flight of judging on Saturday.  Therefore, preliminary judging rounds
may be necessary before Saturday and will be conducted by BJCP certified
judges.  This year, we are expecting at least 150 entries due to the
increased interest in homebrewing in TN this year:  it is now a legal hobby,
and we are awarding a prize for the TN Homebrewer of the Year based on 
points earned at our competition and comps earlier this year in Memphis and
Knoxville.

Other activities:

Friday night party for sponsors, judges, stewards, MCB club members and 
other comp. staff

Saturday morning (8:30 am) closed judging session at Boscos, including a
pizza buffet for competition judges,stewards, and staff, and a public
Best-of-Show round.  BOS prize is opportunity to brew a personal recipe
with Hans Johnson at the Big River Brewing and Grille Works.  Lots of other
prizes, gift certificates, and door prizes.  Winner of TNHBOY will brew
one of his/her prize-winning recipes with Chuck Skypeck of Boscos.  Finally,
the club will be hosting a pub crawl after the prize ceremony and will
provide a van for transportation for judges, stewards, competitors, and
staff to some of the local brewpubs and other Brew-Off sponsors in
downtown Nashvill.

And, if that isn't enough, the Rolling Stones will be playing in town on
Sunday, and there will be plenty to see and do within walking distance of
the concert at Vanderbilt's Dudley Field before, during, and after the show!

The Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:52:39 +0930
From: Simon Charlton <simon.charlton at unisa.edu.au>
Subject: Kegs in Australia

Hello collective.
	I am in the process of building a RIMS and the only legal keg
supplier has gone and has sold out of Coopers kegs on me. This leaves me
with a problem as S.A. Brewing destroys it's old Kegs and made it *very*
clear, when I spoke to them, that it is illegal to use any of theirs
floating about (ie from junkyards). Are there any Australian Homebrewers
out there that can point me to a legal source of retired kegs. Yeah I
tried homebrew shops but they only sell reconditioned kegs (there isn't
much point forking out many $$$ for new valves etc. when your going to
cut the top off). I'd prefer one of the old 18 gallon (90lt) kegs but 10
gallon (50lt) is a good second. Private email is OK.


Cheers,

Simon Charlton <Simon.Charlton at UniSa.edu.au>


Cheers,

Simon Charlton <Simon.Charlton at UniSa.edu.au>

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:58:39 -0500
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: Homebrew and the law

Greg Smith asks if it is legal to make homebrew for organizations
who request it and have them reimburse you for expenses.  I've
been asked variants on this question numerous times over the years
(yes, I am a lawyer).   The bottom line is no, you *cannot* do this
legally in the US.  Let's quickly examine why:

1.  Federal law.  By federal law, it is illegal to produce beer
    unless you have the requisite tax stamp OR the production
    is under a statutory exemption.  Homebrewers are allowed to
    produce 100 gallons (individual) / 200 gallons (household)
    max per year under just such an exemption.  However, beer
    produced under this exemption must be "for personal or
    family use."

    Production for consumption by the general public or some
    organization -- whether you give it away, sell it openly, resort
    to clevernesses like a tip jar or "selling the bottle" -- simply is
    not "personal or family use."  Period.  Once you're brewing for
    someone else's consumption (leaving aside de minimus issues like
    giving incidental amounts away to friends, etc.), you're getting
    beyond what is a fairly narrow statutory exception.   The facts that
    you make no profit doing it or that the beer is being brewed for a
    nonprofit event or is being used to raise money for charity (all
    situations I have encountered) don't change this basic fact either
    -- if the beer is not been brewed by an individual for his "personal
    or family use," then such production is illegal unless the brewer has
    the appropriate federal tax stamp.

    What about homebrew competitions?  Good question.  The BATF
    has never expressed any problem about these to my knowledge,
    probably because the beers are considered to be "produced" for
    personal or family use, and then only a couple of bottles are
    incidentally entered in a competition.  Nonetheless, the practice of
    brewing a special batch for specific public consumption at a
    homebrewing competition (e.g., brewing a big (2 bbl) special batch
    that's served at the banquet at the AHA Nationals) almost certainly is
    illegal.

2.  State law.  I do not profess to be an authority every state's liquor
    laws.  However, as a general rule state law will be even harsher on
    this kind of activity.

    State law typically requires permits for not only production, but
    also all distribution and serving.  Local authorities commonly take
    liquor license issues VERY seriously, and distributing or serving any
    kind of alcohol to the public -- regardless of the financial arrangements
    -- almost always requires some type of permit.  Ergo, if you're gonna
    serve the homebrew at, say, a village harvest festival, you'd need at
    least a temporary caterer's permit to sell or even give it away -- just
    as you would if you wanted to sell BudMillersCoors on the street.
    If you're providing the beer to someone else to do the serving, then
    the law of most states is gonna consider you either a manufacturer
    or distributor, and require you to have the proper permits.  There are,
    of course, myriad reasons why such laws exist (protection of minors,
    liability issues, liquor industry lobying, etc.), but suffice it to say that

    such laws are on the books and are usually enforced rather strictly.

    The usual state restrictions on distribution of beer raise
    their own sets of issues for homebrewers.  The state statutory
    exemptions for homebrewed beer typically track the federal
    exemption; i.e., "for personal or family use."  Because state
    law picks up not only production but also distribution (and
    "distribution" is usually defined broadly to include
    "transportation" of the beer), even things like competitions
    and club tastings aren't necessarily home free.  For example,
    in Texas, the TABC at one time interpreted the law to make
    competitions and club tastings illegal, because they would have
    necessarily have required people to have "distributed" (i.e.,
    transported) their beer for purposes other than "personal or family
    use."  Fortunately, the law was changed almost immediately (with,
    I believe, the blessing of the TABC) to permit "distribution" of
    homebrewed beer to competitions and organized tastings IF such
    events meet certain requirements, including that they not be open to
    the general public and that they not charge admission.

Bottom line: enjoy your homebrew.  Have your friends over and let them
enjoy it.  But when somebody says "hey, this is great -- can you make me
up a batch," they're (unknowingly) asking you to violate the law.   Silly
laws, perhaps, but laws that tend to have the proverbial "big, mean nasty
pointy teeth."  Caveat vendor.

Louis K. Bonham
lkbonham at phoenix.net



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 21:58:15 -0500
From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr at popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: RIMS Heater Housing

In the Great Grain Issue- Zymurgy Special Issue 1995, Kerry S. Hauptli
discusses RIMS.  There are pictures of the heater element which look
like a Stainless tube with an inlet and flange mount at one end and a
removeable cap at the other.  I am interested in this particular unit
because it appears to be a manufactured item much better in construction
than I have been able to devise.  Can any one tell me about this or wera
I can get one.  Is this a piece of Labware that is being used?  Thanks
for the help.

Ray Steinhart
Brewers of South Suburbia

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:56:50 +0100
From: Fredrik.Stahl at math.umu.se (Fredrik Staahl)
Subject: RE: Color as calculated vs. real in glass

Michel and Fred are discussing beer colour:

>While I can understand your feelings, and what you say makes sense, I
>*never* said that I was confusing Lovibond color rating with Standard
>Reference Method color. I would hazard a guess that you inferred this
>association from my posting somehow. I actually measured a sample of the
>grain slurry in my Spec100 spectrophotometer, and calibrated at 430nm, and
>directly measured my transmission, and absorption, then used my CRC
>reference book tables to correlate the approximate color.
>
>>You said that you calculated an SRM of 16.9.  This was probably a simple
>>calculation based on the grain color multiplied by grain quantity and
>>divided by the batch size.
>
>No, what I did was actually measure the color A/T % and simply looked up
>the corresponding values on a nomogram chart. Most food techs do this
>routinely.
>
>>There are some minor corrections that would need to be applied for
>absolute >accuracy (such as the color extraction efficiency, wort darkening
>via maillard >reaction, etc.) but this should suffice as a reasonable
>approximation of the end >color.
>
>Well, I took samples from raw grain slurries, actual pre and post boil
>alloquats, then ran spectrophotometric measurements of the %
>transmission/absorption of a standard calibrated 430nm quartz buret filled
>with DI water.

Did you use a congress mash to obtain the raw grain slurries? If so your
method seems to be correct. The problem as I understand it is that it is
very hard to predict the final beer colour from the grain colours. There is
no confusion of SRM and Lovibond in this case since all measurements are
done with the SRM method.

>>The problem lies in the "target" specifications as they are often cited in
>SRM when
>>they really mean lovibond.
>
>Hmmm, now I'm *really* confused! I was under the misapprehension that
>Lovibond colors referred to GRAIN color, while SRM referred to BEER color.
>Perhaps I need to buy that Oxford English Dictionary CD set after all!

Not so, they are simply different scales. The SRM method is used to measure
both the beer and the grain color.

>>As you may be aware, the lovibond and SRM scales diverge at a log rate
>>on any colors above 10 SRM.
>
>Actually, Lovibond is a linear scalar method, while SRM is a log-linear
>system AFAIK.

Really? I've always heard that they are pretty close. Do you have a
reference for this statement?

>>Your estimated color of 16.9 SRM would equate to 13.5 degrees L.  This
>would be >very close to your resulting color no doubt.  So you see, an ale
>at 16.9 SRM should >indeed be the color of a "light English ale" 10-12
>*degrees lovibond*.
>
>Interesting hypothesis you have developed. Perhaps I missed something along
>the line and need to design a double blind Solomon Test Cross experiment to
>eliminate my apparent experimenter bias. We can only perceive that which
>our Central Nervous System allows us to filter to our subjective  minds ;^)
>
>>I have made up a chart for my own personal use based on the article in
>>an ancient HBD by Dr. George Fix which charts out the non-linearity of
>>the Lovibond scale based on the dilution of Michelob Dark beer, and
>>applied this to the linear scale of SRM as would be measured by a
>>scientifically accurate spectrophotometer.  Unfortunately I have no way
>>of making that readily available to you here.  It is currently posted in
>>the forum library of the Compuserve Beer forum, if you have access to
>that.

I've always interpreted that data as implying that both scales are
nonlinear. See the articles by Ray Daniels in Brewing Techniques [1-3].
Also, I was under the impression that Fred's problem was in relating the
final beer colour to the grain colours. Maybe I'm missing out something
here.

[1] Ray Daniels, "Beer Color Demystified - Part I: How to Measure Beer
Color in the Home and Microbrewery", Brewing Techniques 3 (4), 56-64 (1995)
[2] Ray Daniels, "Beer Color Demystified - Part II: The Science of Beer
Color", Brewing Techniques 3 (5), 60-63 (1995)
[3] Ray Daniels, "Beer Color Demystified - Part III: Controlling and
Predicting Beer Color", Brewing Techniques 3 (6), 56-63 (1995)

/Fredrik

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Fredrik St{\aa}hl          Tel: int + 46 90 786 6027
Math. Dept.                Fax: int + 46 90 786 5222
University of Ume{\aa}     E-mail: Fredrik.Stahl at math.umu.se
S-90187 Ume{\aa}, SWEDEN   WWW: http://www.math.umu.se/~fredriks

                   On tap: Old Pickled Hen
         *** Nemo saltat sobrius, nisi forte insanit ***
- --------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:50:05 +0000
From: Rick Gontarek <gontarek at voicenet.com>
Subject: German Weizen

Hi Everyone,

First, let me say a big thanks to everyone who responded to me regarding
my overcarbonated-cider woes. As I suspected, I may have been too
impatient when fermenting...I will soon try another batch, and I will
make sure to let it ferment all the way out (below 1.000).

A friend and colleague of mine at work is German, and his wife (an
American) passionately loves a Gernam Weizen that they received a six
pack of the last time they were in Germany. My friend knows that I brew,
so he asked me if I could duplicate the beer. He saved the yeast from
the bottom of the bottle, but I know that some beers use one strain for
fermentation, and another one for bottle conditioning...I don't know
about this one. Anyway, the beer is a weizen, and the German brewery is
called "Thurn und Taxis" in Regensburg. Has anyone ever tasted this
beer? If so, could you please describe it to me? I have not tasted this
beer (it was my friend's last bottle), but he told me that it was not
clovey/banana-ey, but rather clean and not bitter. Any help is greatly
appreciated.

Thanks!

Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster
The Major Groove Picobrewery
Trappe, PA

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:13:27 -0400
From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: Lagering in Kegs

Terry Dornbos (homebru at juno.com) says in response to my post about 
putting an airlock on the gas in fitting after removing the poppet:

>    Why do all of this? Just remove the pressure relief valve from the
>lid (mine are held on with a removeable nut),  get a drilled rubber
>stopper (don't know the number but the size that fits a bottle....you
>probably already have one on hand) and insert it into the lid along with
>the airlock. It's a whole lot easier.  


I thought of putting the airlock in the pressure relief
valve hole, but I have 2 kinds of kegs.
Those which the pressure relief valve is *not* removable,
and those that the pressure relief valve nut is just
barely holding on - the whole thing is pretty much
cheesy, crumbling plastic. The fittings, on the other hand are
stainless steel and can take dissasembly and re-assembly 
much better. 

Brew on!

Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing, Ltd.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:03:06 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com>
Subject: mashing pale ale malt


Dave Riedel writes :

" I'm new to all-grain brewing (7 batches thus far).  In the interest of
simply
learning the process with minimal complications,  I have only done
single step 
infusion mashes with a mash-out.  For the first two batches I used
Canadian
Malting 2-row, but the subsequent 5 batches were based on Hugh Baird
Pale Ale
malt.  In the 2-row beers, there were obvious haze problems - this seems
understandable with a single temp mash: too many HMW proteins.  However,
it
is my understanding that typical British pale ale malts do not require
or 
aren't really designed to need a protein rest (of, say, 135F) [Miller -
the
Homebrewer's Guide].  For this reason, I expected the PA malt beers to
be
clearer than the 2-row efforts- they aren't.  Is a lower temperature
rest
of 135-138F required for British pale ale malts too? "

Dave, just what type of haze are you getting with the Canada Malting?
Chill haze?
Or otherwise?  I use this same malt almost exclusively and do not need a
protein
rest except when using a lot of adjuncts.  Perhaps something else is
amiss here?
Chill haze is quite normal no matter what type of malt you are using.
That said,
a 130F rest will help reduce this as well, as will using dark malts.
Sounds to me that what you are getting is normal.  

 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay
Nortel Enterprise Networks
Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations
PC Support Prime


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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:41:37 -0500
From: "Wills, Frederick J (MED)" <Frederick.Wills at amermsx.med.ge.com>
Subject: RE: Color as calculated vs. real in glass


<< I would hazard a guess that you inferred this
association from my posting somehow. I actually measured a sample of the
grain slurry in my Spec100 spectrophotometer, and calibrated at 430nm,
and
directly measured my transmission, and absorption, then used my CRC
reference book tables to correlate the approximate color.>>

Yes.  I am guilty of making that inference.  Actually you didn't say in
your original post how you arrived at your prediction or determination
of the beer color.  I especially apologize if you took my replay as an
attack on your methods or knowledge of brewing.  I assumed that your
question was, like so many I have seen before, based on your beer not
coming out as dark as predicted using one of the recipe formulation
programs.  Most of them (both brewers and programs) use the simple
formula for color prediction that I mentioned.  You didn't mention what
your batch size was, so I couldn't cross check to see if that was what
you did.

<<Hmmm, now I'm *really* confused! I was under the misapprehension that
Lovibond colors referred to GRAIN color, while SRM referred to BEER
color.
Perhaps I need to buy that Oxford English Dictionary CD set after all!>>

While I'm not sure that an Oxford English Dictionary would  be of much
help, this apparently *is* your misapprehension.  While the Lovibond
scale can refer to grain color it is also the traditional scale for
measuring beer color.  I quote from Dr. Fix:

" Beer and wort color traditionally have been
measured visually, and early on the Lovibond (degL)
scale was adopted as a standard. This consists of a
well-defined set of color samples that are used for
comparison. A visual match with a beer or wort sample
defines the degL of the sample. In modern brewing,
photometric methods have replaced visual comparison,
and the American Society of Brewing Chemists has
developed the so-called Standard Reference Method
(SRM), which is widely used."


This is really from where a lot of the confusion stems IMO.  For
instance, in the original text by Dr. Fix, there is a chart that shows
Michelob Dark beer as having an SRM of 17.  I believe this to be
incorrect.  It *is* 17 degrees Lovibond.  OTOH, Michelob Dark should
measure about 28-30 SRM. (i.e. 2.8-3.0 Au on a sufficiently accurate
spectrophotometer).  Alternatively, one could dilute the sample and use
a less expensive instrument and get the same result.

<<Actually, Lovibond is a linear scalar method, while SRM is a
log-linear
system AFAIK.>>

What I meant to say was that there is a linear relationship between
absorbance (hence SRM) and concentration.  Therefore, if one adds twice
the pigment, you will get double the SRM.  This is not true of the
lovibond scale.   

As to the former, I don't believe there is an accurate mathematical
formula that properly describes the Lovibond scale.  Since it was/is
based on visual color and was originally subject to perceptual
inaccuracies, it's my contention that it is more a series of
individually established reference points than  a true "scale".  Sort of
a "connect the dots" approach.

<< I actually measured a sample of the grain slurry in my Spec100
spectrophotometer, and calibrated at 430nm, and directly measured my
transmission, and absorption, then used my CRC
reference book tables to correlate the approximate color.>>

Hmmm, what is the stray light spec for that unit?  Did you compensate
for this?    
Also, why wouldn't the turbidity of those slurries impact the
measurements?

You undoubtedly have a great deal more clinical lab experience than I.
Perhaps my understanding of some of these relationships is flawed.  It
is certainly easy to see how an average joe homebrewer (like me) would
become confused, eh?

Regards,
Fred Wills

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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:52:38 -0400
From: nlerner at mcp.edu (nlerner)
Subject: Re: Rogue "Pacman" yeast

In response to Bernie's query about reculturing Rogue pacman yeast:

A couple of years ago, I tried reculturing from a bottle of Rogue's
Shakespeare Stout.  While the yeast grew up without a problem from the
bottle to a 500ml flask, once in the carboy strange things ocurred.  The
yeast seemed to go through fermentation (i.e., krausening, etc.), but
the specific gravity of the beer did not change!  Weird stuff.  I'd love
to hear a success story of grabbing this yeast.

On a related note, I'm going to try and culture some yeast from a local
brewery's excellent beer:  Ipswich Ale.  Anyone from the Boston area had
success with this?

Neal Lerner
Boston, MA

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Date: 29 Sep 1997 10:59:00 -0400
From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Starch? Help?

                       Subject:                               Time:10:41 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Starch? Help?                          Date:9/29/97

  I recently made a scotch ale recipe which called for steeping cara-pils.  I
thought cara-pils had to be mashed but the help at the local homebrew store
said it only needed to be steeped so thats what I did.  Then today I noticed a
reference that said cara-pils needed to be mashed with pale malt because it
needed the additional enzymes.  Help, did I put starch in my beer and is it
ruined?  TIA
      On spices, just made a ginger ale using Papazians Rocky Raccoon Lager
recipe but using Nottingham Ale yeast instead of lager yeast and 3 oz of fresh
grated ginger.  Wow, I like it!  Might try 2oz next time but 3oz gives it a
nice refreshing snap.  
  John Penn


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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:18:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: Re: Aarons Excellent Comments...

 regards to Aarrons comments i agree - there are alot of you
out there that "think" your getting very scientific with
regards to brewing (granted some of you are)
most commercial brewers dont get that scientific, although 
they probably should....actually this is one reason i left the 
commercial brewing biz after 5 years. and actually that is one of
the reasons i dont venture into this forum much anymore, alot of you
take the hobby far to seriously...but are only scratching the surface.


 ...here is a data point....

one of the bigger problems all brewers have to deal with is malt.
getting a consistant base to work with is nearly impossible unless
your AB or Miller size... or have access to the lab equipment
they have access to....once you obtain the data then you need to know 
enough as to how the process will be modified....for your specific
installation which may or may not vary from you buddies set up...
how many of you "scientific brewers" actually perform a in house
malt "test" before you formualte the days brew...but alot of you
can talk the talk - why not do as you say...and this is only one area
of concern....breweing can be as complicated as any other business,
probably more so...but dont forget (like Aarron said) you do not have
to know rocket science to brew good beer, you just have to learn
a few basics and learn how to brew in your environment, 
with the equipment at hand.



for the new brewers (no not the magazine...) just have fun number one,
number two read everything you can get your hands on, and number three
experiment from instinct rather than scientifically explaining what is
going on....

a retired brewmaster i know told me how to check beer along
the process, after i asked him how much i should spend on lab equipment
he basically said $0, use your sensors (tastebuds, nose, eye...), but 
i still went out and spent several thousand $$ on lab stuff, that i never
really had time to muck with or set up for use.  but the sensors are
always there, learn to use them well..

enough of soapbox - probably matters little anyway...
flame away if you have to...

Joe Rolfe
ex Ould Newbury Brewing
jrolfe at mc.com
onbc at shore.net

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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:29:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: TheTHP at aol.com
Subject: Demo Brewing

Top 10 questions asked while demonstration brewing at the Jackson Brewing
Company's Ocktoberfest.

1.   What are you stirring in there?
2.   Is that sauerkraut?
3.   Why does it smell like bread?
4.   You didn't use real pumpkins did you? 
5.   Why did you name yourselves the Prison City Brewers?
6.   Is that a Still?
7.   Whats a PICO?
8.   Hey, (urp) what smells like pumpkin pie?
9.   Is it hot when you boil it?
10. Is this to drink tonight?

A great time was had by all. A 80 shilling scottish ale was brewed Friday
night, in the dark with limited electricity and no running water. It was
supposed to be 120 shilling, but brewing in the dark on a system you've never
seen, much less used, leaves much to be desired.  Saturday, went much better.
A beautiful afternoon. An excellent football game to listen to, Daylight,
What more could you ask for? The beer tent opened just as we began to sparge,
and the oom Pa Pa band covered up our growns over the 3 4th quarter fumbles.
After we added the spices we really attracted attention! I cant wait to do it
again next saturday!

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery

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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 97 10:30:09 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Cyser question

I realize this belongs more properly in the Mead Lovers Digest but I keep being
rejected there.

I made a cyser with about 12 pounds of honey and a gallon of apple juice.
Activity seems to have stopped and I racked it the second time this weekend.
The SG is 1.010.  Should it go lower or is it probably finished?

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com


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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 11:19:39 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Koelsch, Ferulic acid

I agree with dblewis at ix that there is considerable
diversity among Koelch beers. The point of the reforms
was not to rule out milder versions, but rather to expand
the guidelines so that they include the more flavorable
versions.

I strongly disagree OTOH with his assertion that the Kurfursten
Koelsch is not authenic because it is brewed in Bonn. By the
same token Rats would have to be ruled out because it is brewed 
in Frechen. More to the point, Germany has very strict labeling
laws, and Kurfursten has been using the term "Kolsch" (umlab
to be added!) without controversity.

An even stronger point is made by Professor Anton Piendl's
seies "500 Biere aus alles Welt" that was published in 
Brauindustrie. His article on Koelsch beer contained what
he regarded as the top 10 versions of the style. Kurfursten
was a proud member of that list. One does not get more
authenic than that!

As a side note, of the 10 examples cited by Professor Piendl
only one (Muhlen) was inside the old guidelines. The others
besides Kurfursten were Gilden, Giesler, Kuppers, Reissdorf,
Richmodis, Sion, Rats, and one other who name escapes me.
It was this data, not George Fix, that was instrumental in
getting the guidelines changed. All of the above are inside 
(or nearly so) the new guidelines.

I also disagree with dblewis's use of the term "bitter".
IMHO such tones should be absent, and in fact are the most 
common defect in homebrewed versions. At issue here is
the question of whether hop flavor and aroma should
be detectable. Examples like Kurfursten show that
the answer is yes, but these  should be rounded and
mellow with "noble" tones rather than bitter ones

I also disagree with the statement that all are "pale gold"
in color. The average color among Professor Piendl's
examples is ~5 Lov, with Gieesler being slightly over 6
degrees. A quick look at Davidson's color chart shows that
"light gold" is hardly an adequate discriptor.

Koelsch will always be a difficult category to judge becase
fresh imported versions are not available. Yet this (like
Pre-prohibition American lagers) make great homebrew for exactly
this reason. What I find really interesting about this
style (from a strictly homebrew point of view) is the challenge
of getting the right balance between subtly and complexity
inherent to this style.

I still disagree with Steve Alexander vis the Ferulic acid 
issue. It is true that ale strains like the Chico yeast
will produce phenolic tones under certain circumstances.
In fact, I have just completed a consulting project were
exactly that has happened. In this as well as other examples
I have seen, the problem was ultimately traced to minor yeast
mutation. The key point here is that since the phenolic
products have such low thresholds they will be detectable
regardless of the mashing schedule used. Thus what concerns me
the most is that Steve is diverting attention from the central
practical issue, namely the quality and condition of the 
pitching yeast, to a remote point that is not going to make a 
real difference in the flavors of the finished beer. 

Cheers,

George Fix

P.S. I am behind in my e-mail reponses and to compound matters
am heading for the airport and the GABF. I plan to get caught up 
next week.


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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:35:35 -0600
From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net>
Subject: Panty Hose/Oxygenation

Many posters have commented on the dye in panty hose...

I posted this in r.c.b., and thought I put it here too, but maybe not.
At most hardware stores, you can buy nylon paint strainer bags.  These
come in 1 gal. and 5 gal. sizes.  The 5 gal. size is perfect to roll
around in the boil as a hop bag, and I keep mine clipped to the top of
the brewpot for later hop additions.  I have used these for many, many
batches, with no apparent ill effects on the bag (other than being
stained yellow).  They are much stronger than panty hose, so you can
lift them out of the pot without having them stretch to 6' long, and
they are pure white, no dye.  Stay out of your wife's drawers!! (Pun
fully intended...!)  Stop going through all those gyrations to remove
the dye, and get something that really works. These things are great,
and only cost about $2.50 for a pack of 2.
- -------------------
In #2515 David Whitwell asks about using welding oxygen.

I posted this before regarding CO2 and other gases.  Oxygen is oxygen.
Medical oxygen is simply checked for purity.  Medical and industrial
oxygen both get filled from the same source,  there is no difference.
With regards to impurities in the cylinder,  gas distributors tend to be
very careful about filling oxygen, since oxygen plus hydrocarbons (oil)
equals BOOM!  So, you can confidently use the oxygen out of an
oxy/acetylene set up without worry.  Even though the tubing looks
disgusting on the outside, it should be clean inside.  Just attach a
length of clean tube to the end of the dirty tube to keep the grime away
from your brew.  Be sure to regulate the pressure way down.  It would be
best to start with the regulator backed off to nothing, then slowly
bring it up.

Brew on!

- --
Darrell Garton
Montrose, CO



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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:39:44 -0700
From: Matt Gadow <mgadow at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RO water & PH

I was using only RO water for a pilsner last weekend, and when I went to
acidify for sparging, I noticed that the ph of the RO water was already
below 5.0 ?!?!!  I triple checked it with various ph strips on hand, and
it seemed to be about 4.6, as best I could tell.
The water profile from the source water is highly sulfate >250ppm, and
highly carbonic ~290, with only about 60ppm calcium.  The RO testing
service (rental unit) states that they guarantee total disolved solids
under 100ppm after filtration.  PH of the source water runs about 8.0.

FWIW, the pilsner settled prefectly to 5.3 using only the RO water, and
the last runnings were still in the 5.0-5.3 range using RO water.

Is it usual for RO water to become acidic???

Matt Gadow
Mgadow at ix.netcom.com
No more spam, thanks, I'm full!

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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:49:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Art McGregor (703)695-0552" <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Holiday Ale Recipe

Hi Everyone!

I'm going to brew up a Holiday Ale this weekend for the upcoming office party,
and have a few questions.  My proposed recipe (attached ) is mostly from Philip
Gravel's "Merry Christmas! Ale" from the Cats Meow 3.  I'll be kegging the
batch after fermentation (1 week primary, 3-4 weeks secondary -- all at room
temp.).

1.) Are there too many spices, correct boil times?
2.) Should the spices be left in the fermenter or strained out?
3.) What is the best way to get the zest from the oranges, a vegetable/potatoe
peeler, or a grater?
4.) Should I store the keg in the refrigerator while the spices mellow, or is
room temperature ok?

TIA and Hoppy Brewing  :^)
Art McGregor (Northern Virginia)  (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil)

                      Art's Holiday Ale
Starting Gravity :  1.060
   Ending Gravity   :  1.015
   Alcohol content  :  5.8%
   Recipe Makes     :  5.0 gallons
   Color (srm)      : 53.9
   Hop IBUs         : 28.1
   Yeast            : American Ale I #1056

Malts/Sugars:
  0.50	lb.	American Chocolate       
  1.00	lb.	American Crystal  80L    
  0.50	lb.	Honey                    
  6.60	lb.	Light Malt Extract Syrup 
  0.50	lb.	Brown Sugar              

Hops:
 1.00	oz.	Fuggles        	 3.8%	15 min
 1.00	oz.	Northern Brewer	 6.8%	60 min

Notes:
All Spice 1 tsp - 30" boil
Cinnamon 5 sticks 3 inch each - 30" boil
Cloves 1 tsp - 30" boil
Ginger 1 oz fresh - 30" boil
Orange Zest 2 oranges - 30" boil

Ginger 1 oz fresh - 15" boil
Orange Zest  2 oranges - 15" boil



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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:15:46 -0500
From: "Eric Priceman" <Planter-Victory at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Tan Chunks in Fermenter

Was: Neophyte All-Grainer (previously posted to r.c.b.)

My last two batches - the first a brown with Wyeast British, the
second a bitter with Cooper dry - have developed tan chunks,
ranging in size from BB to pea. I split my sparge runoff - early
and late - evenly between between two 5 gal SS pots, boil 90
mins, and split hop  - whole and plug - adds, too. I immersion
chill, one at a time, for 25 mins with 25 gals tap water - recycled
into washing machine:) - to 75F. I whirlpool and rack through a
SS scrubbie, which filters out hop leaves, BUT NOT COLD BREAK!
The break settles in the primary like a 2 inch thick, tan sponge.
As the ferment commences, it seems as though the cold break
coagulates into the tan chunks I've seen swirling around my lovely
brew! I racked the brown into the secondary with a lot of chunks
after 5 days and bottled after 7 more with no problem. But the
bitter I kegged after 7 days and it was impossible to rack without
getting tan chunks in the keg:(. Can anyone suggest a method
to filter out the cold break? Is the cold break causing/forming
the tan chunks?

Brewing and Laundering Simultaneously,

Zemo


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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:09:30 -0400
From: Luc Dore <ldore at positronfiber.com>
Subject: RE: re: A third batch goes down 

Mike D. said:

> I've a friend who 'feeds' the rehydrated yeast a morsel of sugar to 
> observe activity before pitching. No bubbles? He discards and tries 
> other packet and avoids a lengthy wait

Now that's an idea that never crossed my mind !

- --
Luc Dore -- Positron Fiber Systems
ldore at positronfiber.com


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Date: 29 Sep 1997 12:48:24 -0600
From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.0519423 at nt.com>
Subject: Hop/Trub filter / Sam Smith

                      Subject:                              Time:  1:26 =
PM
  OFFICE MEMO         Hop/Trub filter / Sam Smith Porter    Date:  =
9/29/97

Greetings!

On Friday someone posted instructions for making a hop/trub filter using =
a loop of copper tubing w/ slits cut in the bottom, and curved to fit the =
very edge of the kettle.  This tubing was connected to the siphon.  The =
claim was that this thing filtered out 100% of hops and break.

I constructed such a device and used it this weekend.  While the wort was =
substantially clearer than using a copper scrubbie, there was some trub =
in the fermenter (about 1/4 inch on the bottom).  Has anyone else used =
this kind of filter and managed absolutely clear wort?  I used standard =
copper tubing (comes already rolled) - 3/8", and cut a slit every 1/3 =
inch with a hacksaw.  Should I have used a larger diameter tubing?  Even =
w/ the small amount of trub, I would recommend this simple device for the =
hands-free operation - a copper scrubbie is far more of a PITA!

I also sampled a Samuel Smith Taddy Porter this weekend.   Does anyone =
know of a suitable Wyeast or Yeast Lab yeast for emulating this beer?  =
The only way I can describe it is tart and fruity up front, and malty =
smooth in the finish.  I'm assuming one of the British yeasts will do the =
trick, but there's so many, and their descriptions all read pretty much =
the same, that I don't know where to start.

Cheer!

Drew Avis
Calgary





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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:59:52 EDT
From: John McCafferty <johnm at intranet.com>
Subject: Schwarzbier yeast selection / Winter Warmers

Does anyone have suggestions for a Wyeast lager strain to use for a 
Schwarzbier?    Should this style be highly attenuated?  What characteristics
should guide me in yeast selection?

I am considering using an 80 shilling Scottish Ale as a base for a winter 
warmer. Any suggestions for spices (and amounts) that would go well with this 
style of beer?  I'm no tbig on hihgly spiced beers.  I'm looking for something
that complements the style without overpowering it.

						John McCafferty
						Merrimack Valley Brewers

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