HOMEBREW Digest #2520 Thu 02 October 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Science in Brewing ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Hop plugs in a cask? (Jay Reeves)
  Millenium Ale (00nelephart)
  Pre-Gelatinized Grains (Darrell)
  Rogue Pacman yeast (Jeff)
  Brew Pub Venture (00nelephart)
  Aluminum Fermenters ("Brendan T. Kelly")
  Home brewing really is simple (really) (Jeff Sturman)
  Toasting Grains (RitchRon)
  RE: Holiday Ale Recipe ("Michael E. Dingas")
  Re: Posts by Aaron A Sepanski and Joe Rolfe ("Michael Kowalczyk")
  Address Correction (Jim Hinken)
  Old Recipes (Robert Pastor)
  Drilling Refrigerators (Forrest Duddles)
  Jeff Sturman's "statistics" (Some Guy)
  keep that geeky science stuff coming (Mark Tumarkin)
  mutant beer (Jim Larsen)
  EBC to SRM conversion. ("Braam Greyling")
  Snake Oil and Water Mix (A. J. deLange)
  lagering with 2112 (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Drilling holes in refrigerator (Dennis J. Templeton)
  Ipswich Ale Yeast (bob mccowan)
  HDB & Beer Geeks - a Newbie's view ("Ernst, Joseph G.")
  When to add DAP (Paul Henning)
  Re: Science in Brewing (Dave Johnson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:52:22 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Science in Brewing Aaron A Sepanski wrote in HBD 2517 (in part): <SNIP> I guess my main point here is how much science is necessary? I work in a brewery myself. One of my colleagues is an AHA judge and has over 40 years of brewing experience. His beer has won trophies throughout the country. I feel fortunate to have worked with him. Why I mention him is because he doesn't know a thing about the science of brewing. Before I turn this into a bashing, I want to say that I am with you. I think that brewing is a science. But my point is we shouldn't be cramming it down people throats and making them feel like peons because they have no formal scientific training. <SNIP> and Joe Rolfe wrote (in part) in HBD 2518: <SNIP> regards to Aarrons comments i agree -there are alot of you out there that "think" your getting very scientific with regards to brewing (granted some of you are) most commercial brewers dont get that scientific, although they probably should....actually this is one reason i left the commercial brewing biz after 5 years. and actually that is one of the reasons i dont venture into this forum much anymore, alot of you take the hobby far to seriously...but are only scratching the surface. <SNIP> I'd like to comment that one of the things I like as a relative newcomer to homebrewing in general and HBD in particular is the vastly varying views one can see here, with a low level of acrimony. I've yet to see anyone forced to read anything. The highly technical stuff can get intimidating, but all one has to do is scroll down... and I love having opinions expressed from all the different disciplines from chemistry to law to brewing to microbiology, etc, etc. In recent months (my time of observation) I've not seen anyone belittled because they had no formal scientific training. Some of the discussions have been heated (botulism and 122 vs 135 rests come to mind) but that seems to me more like heated peer review than intimidation. As long as personal attacks are left out it's good to hear counter arguments, so we as homebrewers can make our own judgements as to how serious and/or scientific to be about brewing our own beer and what tools we want to use. Where else can you read a discussion of possible errata in a standard brewing text, ferulic acid production and significance as well as questions and answers about how to filter out cold break, or good (but old) brewing jokes? Just my $.02 worth. -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:38:33 From: Jay Reeves <jay at or.com> Subject: Hop plugs in a cask? Can anyone tell me (no fair guessing) a normal procedure for dryhopping a cask? What I want to know, is it normal to just drop the intact plug into the cask then bung it, or do they break it up prior to putting it in the cask? I'm concerned that if I drop an intact plug in, it may not fully separate. The problem I had with using loose, whole hops was that as soon as the hops hit the beer, it gave a nucleation site for the CO2 and....foam city before I could get all of the hops in and the shive hammered home. -Jay Reeves Huntsville, Alabama NOTE: Any replies need to manually change the "or" in the "reply to" field to "ro". For all you automated email spammers, here's the addresses of the FCC board members: Chmn. Reed Hunt: rhundt at fcc.gov Comm. James Quello: jQuello at fcc.gov Comm. Susan Ness: sness at fcc.gov Comm. Rachelle Chong: rchong at fcc.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:44:41 -0500 (EST) From: 00nelephart at bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Millenium Ale I was in a local liquor store the other day, and the discussion I had with the worker there was about an interesting product. It is called Millenium Ale. As explained, this ale is, supposedly, aging in the bottle, and is to be consumed on the night of the new millenuim. The first question is, which millenium are the makers refering to, which is a whole other can of worms. But, not as to start a non-homebrewing related discussion of the history of the calandar, is this a marketing gimmik, or could it be a real product. It has a wax/cork seal, and is bottled in a champange bottle with a very attractive container. I thought that ale's are one of the faster maturing brews. Is it possible that this stuff would taste anything like it is supposed to, in that many years? The price is $21 per unit. One final note, the clerk also explained, "There were only 4000 units shipped to the U.S., and we are able to receive 8 units total, 4 this month, and 4 next month." Is this also more bull? Noel Lephart NLephart at symex.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:12:00 -0600 From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net> Subject: Pre-Gelatinized Grains Dear collective, I have a bag of flaked barley, and a bag of flaked oats (25 lbs. each). Both say "pre-gelatinized". The oats I got from a brewery, the barley I just bought. Don't these grains have to go through gelatinization prior to mashing? I thought that rolling (or flaking?) created the necessary heat to gelatinize. Now I'm all screwed up. Do I have to boil these grains prior to mashing? "Help me mister wizaaaaaaaaard!..." - -- Darrell Garton Montrose, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:18:54 -0400 From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff) Subject: Rogue Pacman yeast Hi All, I have noticed quite a few posts recently about Rogue's Pacman yeast. I have read in the past that the Wyeast #1272 (american ale II) may be originally from Rogue and passed this rumor along to a couple of people who have recently posted about the Pacman yeast. I recieved the following email today directly from someone at Rogue: >>>>>>> Greetings Jeff, Thanks for the email. Sorry it took a few days to get to the bottom of this top-fermenting yeast issue... John Maier has his proprietary PACMAN yeast privately banked at Wyeast, but it is not commercially available. You could culture the Pacman yeast from a bottle of Shakespeare Stout or Mocha Porter. John recommends NOT using Old Crusty though. <snip other stuff> <<<<<<< So, we now know that #1272 is not the Pacman yeast and that you should be able to culture the yeast from bottles of Rouge. At the same time I had read about the #1272 maybe being from Rouge, I remember reading that it may instead be the yeast used in Red Tail Ale (Mendocino Brewing Co, Hopland CA). Anybody know if this may be true? Hoppy brewing, Jeff ============================================================================== Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 841-7210 x152 Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 841-7250 Launcher Technology & Analysis Branch email: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Naval Undersea Warfare Center Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2 Newport, RI 02841-1708 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:53:58 -0500 (EST) From: 00nelephart at bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Brew Pub Venture A friend and myself are talking about starting a brew pub. Although location play's a major factor, what would be the initial capital outlay for this type of venture? Equipment is the biggest concern, because product quality is the determining factor for sales. Does anyone out there have suggestions about such a major investment. Equipment, level of experience for the brewmaster(meister), production quantities, ratio of craft brew/pub brew to commercial. Anything would be a great deal of help. Noel Lephart NLephart at symex.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:13:00 -0700 From: "Brendan T. Kelly" <brendan.t.kelly at brewnews.com> Subject: Aluminum Fermenters I have access to a cheap source of large aluminum vessels that would make great fermenters. I am fairly certain that as much as I'd like to, I shouldn't use them, but don't know exactly why. If the aluminum/Alzheimer's connection is still unproven (as I've read here), and I'm using a non-caustic cleaner (PBW) would I be safe using these vessels for fermentation? If not, why? Thanks for your help. Private E-mail is fine if you think the answer will be obvious to everyone but me (it wouldn't be the first time). Brendan Kelly Philadelphia, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:29:14 -0700 From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) Subject: Home brewing really is simple (really) In reference to the recent posts about the over-complicated discussions that sometimes seem to overrun the digest, I would guesstimate the following figures are pretty close to average for all home brewers in the US: ~ 98% + of my home brewing customers use extracts ~ 50% use dry yeast ~ 5% know what amylase is; The other 95% don't want to know. ~ 33% ferment in plastic, single stage ~ 25% brew with untreated tap water ~ 25% don't own a single home brewing book or magazine ~ 95% sanitize with bleach and tap water ~ 90% would quit brewing if they were required to understand any chemistry or biology ~ 98% are male The core of the home brewing movement is the average guy who enjoys making and consuming home brew, just like the average guy who enjoys fly fishing or stamp collecting. (Male chauvinism not intended) Charlie P's attitude is much like that of most home brewers; RDWHAHB. If you try to complicate things, these customers will walk out the door in disgust and never return. I read the hbd for my own enjoyment, but 95% of the digest's content is totally useless to 95% of home brewers. Not that I don't try. I want my customers to advance their brewing techniques, equipment and ingredients. But the fact is most home brewers don't know an amylase from a hydrometer, and they don't want to know. The digest attracts those who have crossed the line between hobby and obsession, but by no means should we ever credit ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely represent the hobbyists. Just some food for thought. jeff casper, wy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:27:55 -0400 (EDT) From: RitchRon at aol.com Subject: Toasting Grains I'm fairly new at all grain brewing and was getting ready to try a Marzen recipe that calls for 1 lb of the malted barley to be toasted in the oven (for 10 minutes at 350 degrees) before mashing. So I went to my local homebrew store and picked up the grain, taking care to keep 1 lb in a separate bag. I also crushed all the grain in the store as a matter of course - and there the plot thickens. The next day I was browsing another recipe for a similar beer which also called for toasting part of the grain, but this one specified that the *whole* grains should be toasted *before* grinding. Intuition tells me I should still be able to toast the ground grain, albeit for a briefer period or, perhaps, at a lower temperature. Thus the obvious question: how long at what temp? Any ideas? My thanks, Ron Ritchie Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:18:22 -0400 From: "Michael E. Dingas" <dingasm at worldnet.att.net> Subject: RE: Holiday Ale Recipe Art McGregor asked:=20 =20 >1.) Are there too many spices, correct boil times? >2.) Should the spices be left in the fermenter or strained out? >3.) What is the best way to get the zest from the oranges, a = vegetable/potatoe >peeler, or a grater? >4.) Should I store the keg in the refrigerator while the spices mellow, = or is >room temperature ok? I've only brewed 4 batches and am not yet ready to plunge into a recipe = as intricate as the one you posted. However, I wanted to brew a = Christmas beer and downloaded several recipes from Cats Meow. All were = more than I wanted to attempt so I opted, instead, to simply use my = simple Honey Wheat extract recipe and toss in the spices. Guy McConnel's 'Christmas in Ireland' uses similar ingredients but = different quantities. I used his spice mix for my brew and it smelled = teriffic even while bottling! I waited a whole 6 days after bottling = before I popped one and it was quite enjoyable. If It improves with age = I'll be bringing some to my office Christmas party to share. Surprizingly, the spices used are similar to that which my wife uses = during the holidays to bring a nice festive aroma to the house. = Naturally, I asked her advice about the spice mixture and proceeded as = follows: 1. Grate the rinds of four medium sized oranges using a cheese grater. = Be careful not to grate down into the soft white portion which is = bitter. Also, use one of the larger grates which makes it easier to = strain the bulk out later. 2. Grate 4 ounces of unpealed ginger root. 3. Combine the orange/ginger gratings, cinnamon sticks, Allspice and = cloves with four cups of water into a covered pot. I used ground cloves, = incidentally. The recipe didn't specify but that made more sense than = whole cloves. I omitted the honey since my basic recipe uses quite a = bit, anyway. 4. Bring the mixture to a boil, reduce the heat and simmer for 45 = minutes. 5. Strain the liquid out and set aside. You can add more water to the = spices, reboil and leave the kitchen smelling extra good. 6. I opted to add the strained spice liquid during the last 5 minutes of = the wort boil. No directions were given regarding that so I guessed. = Maybe someone else has a better alternative.=20 I bottle, as I said earlier. So, my brew is mellowing at room temp. = O.G. 1.058 F.G. 1.016 (Same as the basic recipe). Hope this helps a = little.=20 Mike D. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:26:28 -0700 From: "Michael Kowalczyk" <mikekowal at megsinet.net> Subject: Re: Posts by Aaron A Sepanski and Joe Rolfe I want to start off by saying. I AGREE with you both. But, there are things to be gleaned by sitting back and observing the "froth" that is churned up by the masses throwing in their two cents. For instance. Look at the 122 deg rest debate last month. Wow, lots of correspondence. But what I got as a new brewer is don't think that just because you use Lager Malt that it instantly needs a 122 rest to knock out chill haze. I went back to my notes and realized that my best beers ( I use British lager malt in all my ales) were the ones that I overshot the 122 rest and landed about 132 - 135... I never would have even considered the 122 rest contributing until that standoff.. er.. debate had ensued. I don't really give a flip about alpha or beta almayze or anything, nor do I understand it. But I got something out of that that I can use. People are people. They contribute in very human ways, especially when its about a hobby that they are passionate about. - Mike from Chicago p.s Aaron, I'm enjoying the HBD and not paying too much attention to the scientific stuff ( I can't understand it anyway). Joe, I'd be interested in how to perform and in-house malt test... part of post from Aaron: I rarely read this journal anymore. I have seen so many people just screw up science and scientific method. Those people that are interested in spitting out terms because they have a vague idea about what they mean make homebrewing unenjoyable for others. Part of post from Joe: for the new brewers (no not the magazine...) just have fun number one, number two read everything you can get your hands on, and number three experiment from instinct rather than scientifically explaining what is going on.... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:06:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hinken <jhinken at accessone.com> Subject: Address Correction The announcement for the Brews Brothers Novemberfest Homebrewing Competition in Homebrew Digest #2515 listed the address for the Elysian Brewing Company's Brewpub at Gameworks rather than the the Brewery on East Pike, which is where the competition will be held. The correct address is listed below. Sorry for any inconvience. Jim Hinken Bothell, WA The Brews Brothers, Seattle's oldest homebrewing club announces the Novembeerfest 1997 homebrewing competition. The competition will be held Saturday, November 1, at the Elysian Brewing Company, 1221 East Pike Street, Seattle, WA. Started in 1991, Novembeerfest has grown from a local competition to the most respected competition in the Pacific Northwest. This year's competition features something new - Fame! The Brews Brothers have arranged for the following respected breweries and brewpubs to produce four or five of the top scoring beers for commercial release to the public! The breweries are: Elysian Brewing Co. - Seattle, Washington La Conner Brewing Co. - La Conner, Washington* Twin Rivers Brewing - Monroe, Washington Flying Pig Brewpub - Everett, Washington * Still in planning phase We are still in the planning stages with the 5th, hopefully soon to be announced brewery. Winning beers to be brewed are subject to the approval and system limitations of the breweries. Entries will be accepted from all AHA style catagories including cider and mead. Three bottles are required for entry and the entry fee is U.S.$5. The standard AHA entry form and bottle lables may be used or contact Rob Nelson at the number below and entry forms will be faxed to you. Entry deadline is October 29, 1997. Late entries will be received until 5:00 PM on Friday, Oct. 31, with a late entry fee of U.S. $10. Entries may be shipped to Jim Hinken 24211 4th Place West Bothell, WA. 98021 (425) 483-9324 Visit our web site at http://www.brewsbrothers.org. Interested Judges may contact Rob Nelson at the address below or me at jhinken at accessone.com. For entry forms or more information, contact: Brother Rob Nelson Post Office Box 1016 Duvall, WA 98019-1016 Phone: (425) 788-0271 Fax: (425) 788-0271 (self detecting machine) E-mail: Nelson at witty.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 04:07:06 -0400 From: "TELEMUNDONET" <armstrong at telemundonet.com> Subject: MAJOR BEER CONTEST Hi- This could be of interest to your readers. Go here http://www.telemundonet.com and then click on the Free Vacation beer contest button. Also we are looking for channel partners- I have included some info at the bottom of this mail about becoming a channel partner. Best Regards, LIAT Interactive-Miami Mark Armstrong, Director Personal Fax: (305) 674-1154 E-Mail: armstrong at liat.com "...all your dreams of lush, tropical, warm Caribbean Islands Right Here-Right Now..." http://www.liat.com ______________________________________________________________ An Incredible Vacation Awaits You in: San Andres-the Island of Non-Stop Partying... Providencia-the Island of Adventure... Santa Catalina-the Island of Peace & Tranquility... We look forward to your next visit to our playful Islands of Passion! http://www.sanandres.org ______________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 05:19:39 -0400 From: Robert Pastor <rpastor at grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us> Subject: Old Recipes Greetings, Does anybody know where I can find beer recipes dating from pre-1600? I already have a copy of Das Reinheitsgebot(German Purity Law of 1516). I now need a recipe or procedure that can be documented as being from that time. Thanks, Bob Pastor Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 07:47:02 -0400 From: Forrest Duddles <duddles at Imbecile.kzoo.edu> Subject: Drilling Refrigerators Hi folks, Ian Smith asked about drilling holes in his late model Amana refrigerator... Over the years refrigerator manufacturers have come up with so many different ideas about what configuration is best and what features they should include in their design that it is nearly impossible to know where the refrigerant lines, air ducts and wiring are located. Each make, model and style will likely be different. Careful exploration may help you find a safe place to drill, but there will always be some risk involved unless you can see inside the area. Having said that, there are some common configurations. Most modern frost-free designs use a small fan-forced condenser under the cabinet, and a fan-forced evaporator either in the back or between the freezer and refrigerator compartments. Temperature controls are usually in the form of a remote-bulb thermostat that starts and stops the compressor to control freezer temperature and a either an air duct shutter and/or thermostatically controlled fan motor to control refrigerator cabinet temperature. Refrigerant lines are USUALLY confined to the back of the cabinet. Strip heaters are commonly used around doors to prevent condesation. Wiring may be run anywhere inside the cabinet and is more likely to be hit when drilling. Perhaps the safest place to drill is the door. Most models have no wiring in the door and I have never seen one with a refrigerant circuit in the door. Any door wiring will be visible in the form of a cord between the cabinet and door near the hinges. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo duddles at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 07:59:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Jeff Sturman's "statistics" Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager.. Jeff Sturman sez... > > In reference to the recent posts about the over-complicated discussions > that sometimes seem to overrun the digest, I would guesstimate the > following figures are pretty close to average for all home brewers in the > US: <"statistics" snipped> > and they don't want to know. The digest attracts those who have crossed > the line between hobby and obsession, but by no means should we ever credit > ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely > represent the hobbyists. > > Just some food for thought. > Personally, Jeff, either the thought food you are providing is junk food, or your clientelle bucks the "population" of brewers. Rather than dance upon the grave of the statistics you have provided, let me point you toward the Zymurgy issue of last year in which they reported the results of THEIR brewers' survey. Keep in mind that the AHA and Zymurgy caters more toward the beginning brewers than to the advanced, and you'll see why I question the numbers you have provided. I hardly think that, in an educated bunch as represented in their survey, only 5% would know - or care - what amylase is. I think you don't give your clientelle enough credit for intelligence. Either that or THEY don't represent the hobby. THere are two sides to every coin, no? The simple fact is that BOTH groups do. Just two different extremes. And, if the HBD had nothing at all to do with the advancement of our hobby, believe me, I'd pull the plug. If no value came from this thing which I very rarely even get to READ anymore (understandably, this thread and your opinion have caught my attention), I could find far better things upon which to spend the hours invested in servicing its needs. It isn't the middle-of-the-road, I-can-take-it-or-leave-it people who are responsible for the advancement of ANYTHING. They simply provide the economy necessary to support the suppliers. And the suppliers would be happy as hell to simply serve their needs and not produce any of the nifty, fancy, and high-tech toys and ingredients we have come to enjoy. Why are those toys and ingredients out there? Because we "foaming-at-the-mouth", three-headed monsters of the craft demand them - advancing the hobby. Hell! How many "I don't know or care what amylase is" type brewers have gone on to create and market something that benefitted the craft? I can think of none. On the other hand, we have Rob Moline who advanced to become a professional brewer. We have Dave Miller, Byron Burch, George Fix, Lutzen and Stevens, and many others who have written books to advance the hobby. We have Kenney Baughman, Listerman, Schmidling and others that have developed useful and marketable items that have helped to advance the hobby. We have those like Joe Bair, Algis Korzonas (until fairly recently), Mark George, and others who have opened homebrew shops in order to advance the hobby. Many of these people fished their concepts and enhancements right here on the HBD - Don't try and tell us who is advancing the hobby and who isn't. Finally, if anyone finds nothing to gain from the Digest, or they have burned out their page-down key, they can simply unsubscribe. That option exists, too. Absolutely no attempt will be made by the Janitors or the Steering Committee to redirect the focus of this mailing list. You folks choose its direction by starting and responding to threads. If no-one gains anything from a thread, it dies of its own accord - plain and simple. And all the yahoos who write to complain about threads simply perpetuate them by causing those who have participated in them to defend THEIR positions and participation. Simply put: if you don't like it, and it doesn't harm you or yours IGNORE IT and it will go away. That, my friends, in a nutshell, is how this society we call the Home Brew Digest works. To present unsubstantiated numbers to show that we're the useless three-headed monster of the craft is, in my opinion, offensive. And yes: it pissed me off. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 08:11:00 -0400 From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com> Subject: keep that geeky science stuff coming hi all: We got several responses from the "science geeks" to Aaron's post about too much science. I thought I would toss in my view as one of "scientifically challanged" readers. Keep That Geeky Science Stuff Coming! A lot of it goes over my head but I seldom hit the page down key, although I certainly respect your right to do so :-) Hell, I usually even read the RIMS stuff. As a relatively new brewer (1 1/2 years, partial mash), the HBD has been my best source of information. I look on the posts I don't understand as pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. When you first start the puzzle, it's hard to put the pieces together. As you proceed and begin to get a little understanding, something you read before begins to make sense - you see where the piece fits in the puzzle. I get overwhelmed by the science sometimes but at least I can get a small understanding of some of the issues. And as a newbie, I want to say that many of the "science geeks" are the same people that consistantly post answers to basic questions as well. Thanks guys. Well, now I have to get back to the "real world" and get stuff done so I can leave for Denver. Hope to see you there. Mark Tumarkin The Brewery in the Jungle Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 07:59:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Larsen <jal at oasis.novia.net> Subject: mutant beer Spencer writes: >I'm not much interested in most of the "how do I clone beer xxy" >discussions. "Beer xxy?" I think this would be a fascinating discussion, but well beyond even the vast science expressed in the HBD. Just what would this beer be like? What would an extra x chromosome do to a beer? Or is an extra y chromosome? Are there molecular geneticists out there willing to take this on? Retreating back into my hole, Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 15:22:56 +200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azona.com> Subject: EBC to SRM conversion. Hi Brewers, I am trying out this Brewers Workshop software. To work out the colour of my beer, the program use the malt colour in SRM. The malt I use is specified only in EBC and Lovibond. How can I convert EBC to SRM ? Are there a formula for this ? I would prefer to convert EBC to SRM because I understand that Lovibond is not described by a simple mathematical formula. Can EBC be described by a simple formula ? Thanks! Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer Azona(Pty)Ltd tel +27 12 6641910 fax +27 12 6641393 You can taste a good beer with one sip, but it is better to make thoroughly sure. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:21:44 -0500 From: ajdel at mindspring.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Snake Oil and Water Mix Eric Fouch wrote: >The comments about RO water systems being expensive and the water >being aggressive run counter to everything the local Rainsoft RO >water system sales guy told me.. These people are in business to sell you equipment, not worry about your plumbing. Often they know little or nothing about what is involved. The house I live in is supplied by a well whose water exits at pH 6.5 or so and has about 40 ppm (as CaCO3) calcium hardness and 68 ppm alkalinity. This is a little, but not terribly aggressive (saturation pH 8.25 implying a saturation index of -1.75). The previous owner got conned into buying a neutralizer and softener. The water out of the softener has an alkalinity of 135 ppm as CaCO3, a calcium hardness of 0.40 ppm as CaCO3 and a pH of around 7.2. In other words, the equipment does what it's designed to do. But the saturation pH of this output water is 10.04 for a saturation index of +2.8. The water out of the system is more aggressive than the water going in! So I called the local branch of the country's largest water treatment supplier. The conversation went something like: Me: I have a neutralizer and softener and the water coming out is more aggressive than the water going in. He: What do you mean? Me: I mean the water coming out of the system is more likely to corrode my plumbing than the water out of the well. He; Sir, we have thousands of these systems installed all over the county. Me: Are you familiar with the Langelier index? He: No. Me: Ryznar index? He: No. Me: Well those are industry standard measures of the corrosiveness of water and they indicate that the water out of my system is more corrosive than the water going in. He: If you say so. Me: Well, I didn't invent these things myself. Do you sell an aerator? He: No. Me: Good day. (The deal with the aerator is that the water in question, if aerated, will lose CO2 to the point where the pH reaches 8 or so and the saturation (Langelier) index goes goes to -0.25 or so which is much better.) I will note that this same supplier did tell a brewing friend that whole house RO was impractical because he would have to replumb with plastic pipe. As with any other technology product some salesmen know more than others with the general reaction being "How the hell can they sell these things if they know so little about them?". Then there was the water guy (from whom I bought an RO system) who measured my "Totally dissolved solids " for me. The newspapers have more and more stories about bad water caused by the cities' decaying infrastructures (I live near DC where the infrastructure is about as decayed as it gets and the big scare around here is cryptosporidium). The water treatment industry is now a growth inustry. Caveat Emptor! A. J. deLange - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. - --> --> --> To reply remove "nosp" from address. <-- <-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 08:36:22 -0500 From: Chris Schmidt <CSCHMIDT at LHSNET.COM> Subject: CIDER PRODUCTION AND SALE Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:58:39 -0500 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> Subject: Homebrew and the law - ---------------- Along this line. I have a friend who owns an apple orchard. He claims that he can produce "Hard" cider and sell it without a license etc.. Claims some kind of "Grandfather" law that allows for this as this goes back to the beginning of the United States etc. I question whether the ATF feels the same way. Chris Schmidt Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:43:56 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: lagering with 2112 Tim.Watkins at analog.com wrote: > On a brewing note. About a month ago, I brewed Jeff Renners Classic >American Pilser, "Your Fathers Mustache". As my first attempt at a lager, >I'm a bit concerned (not worried, just concerned). My brewshop didn't have >WYeast 2007 available, nor did he have 2035 nor.... you can see where I'm >going with this. I ended up using 2112, which, I realized after pitching >it, is the California Common beer yeast. Anyhoo, I raised the temp in the >fridge to 58F, which from what I understand, is the lower temp range of >this yeast, and it's fermented out just fine. > > A couple of questions: How should I lager this? Will the yeast crash >out if I lower the temp to the lager range (<40F)? How will the flavor >have been affected? This was my first attempt at a lager, so bear with me. Glad to hear you brewed a CAP. I've never used 2112, but it is a lager yeast, and so it should do its thing at lagering temp, which is usually lower than 40F - typically just above freezing. Usually you want to begin lagering a bit earlier than the month you've waited. I start when the gas production falls off and there is little kraeusen, typically at ten days. Lower the temp slowly (I go with 3F/day). I suspect you'll get more fruity notes with the 58F fermentation, but maybe not. This is the temp that some commercial American lager breweries ferment at. A friend of mine brought his CAP with 2112 over to my 50F temp controlled freezer, and it fermented fine along my CAP with whatever yeast I had going at the time (don't remember which), so I don't think 58F is by any means a low point for 2112. Let me know how it turns out! Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:06:42 -0500 From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu (Dennis J. Templeton) Subject: Re: Drilling holes in refrigerator Re: >From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com> >Subject: Drilling holes in refrigerator > >Has anyone tried drilling holes through a modern 21 cu ft (Amana) >refrigerator I drilled a hole in my Amana side by side while my wife was out of the house. ;=) I put it in the back, center, 3 feet off of the floor. I was a little concerned about hitting something vital, but it worked fine. In order to *not* hit a condenser, just in case one was there, I first drilled carefully through the back panel sheath, exposing the insulation underneath (foam-in-place kind of stuff). I then probed the location with a blunt but narrow screwdriver to ensure clear passage to the far wall (about 1 1/2 inches). I reinserted the drill, and finished the job through the inside wall. I made a liner for the hole from some 1/2 inch tubing to prevent chafing of the beer line, and ran a line up from the basement into the fridge. BTW, it has served me nicely to keep a cold plate and tap in the fridge, and the keg in the basement. You need to experiment with keg pressures (mine has 20# pressure and about 20 feet of 3/8 in tubing). The plate takes up less space than 4 bottles, and it is at the back of the fridge so the wife doesn't complain. I can pour 3 cold mugs at a time before it begins to warm up a little. Good luck, Dennis Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:53:10 +0100 From: bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com (bob mccowan) Subject: Ipswich Ale Yeast Unless something has changed, Ipswich uses 1028 from Wyeast. They don't filter their beer so there's usually plenty on the bottom (sometimes it's still a bit cloudy when they bottle it, at least in the growlers.) I haven't been over there for a while, but in the past if I showed up on a brewing day the brewers would give me a jar of yeast to take home. They also used to (may still) use volunteers at the brewery. Bob - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob McCowan Senior Engineer/Physicist ATG/Receiver-Protector voice: (508)-922-6000 x208 CPI BMD fax: (508)-922-8914 Beverly, MA 01915 e-mail: bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com "In a time of drastic change it is the learners who inherit the future. The learned usually find themselves equipped to live in a world that no longer exists." - Eric Hoffer Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:13:54 -0500 From: "Ernst, Joseph G." <ernstjg at Maritz.com> Subject: HDB & Beer Geeks - a Newbie's view Dave in Dallas writes: > I don't chide people for >asking a frequently-asked question on the digest; why should the reverse >be true? ... >And I think it is fair to say that many of us Geek-brewers are >quite willing to help out when less experienced brewers ask for it, and do >not look down our nose when that happens. If we *did*, then the arguments >against being so detailed would have more weight. But the fact that >brewers of all experience and interest levels can get solid, useful info >here is something to be praised. Well said, Dave, this deserved a rerun. As a newbie, the understanding and patient nature of the more experienced is _greatly_ appreciated. The extreme technical discussions should be as welcome as the newbie FAQs IMO, so that each of us can choose what to read, learn or skip over. I believe I speak for all less experienced readers when I say "Thanks". It is refreshing to read a collective that doesn't answer every newbie question with "look in the archives, idiot". (Although looking in the archives first is the polite thing for a newbie to do) :-) And one question for you, treasured collective: I have a a wheat beer in a corny keg at 40F/11-12 psi, I use a picnic tab and 24" of tubing. Upon dispensing, the flow is fast and it produces more of a head than I would like, even though I pour down the side of the glass. The glass ends up 60% beer, 40% foam, yet when it is tasted, it doesn't have a very carbonated mouth feel. Am I doing something stupid again? ;-) Any suggestions are welcome, private email okay. Joe (ernstjg at maritz.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:36:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Paul Henning <phenning at cs.uiowa.edu> Subject: When to add DAP If you were to add diammonium phosphate to your DME-based starter, when would you do it? I seem to remember that it doesn't survive a boil (perhaps evidenced by the massive ammonia aroma produced if you add DAP to hot water), but I don't like dumping things into the "cold-side" starter for sanitation reasons. Long live technical discussions on HBD! ;-) Paul Henning phenning at cs.uiowa.edu Iowa City, IA http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~phenning Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 13:10:08 -0400 From: Dave Johnson <djohnso at OPIE.BGSU.EDU> Subject: Re: Science in Brewing Greetings all, I'm sure Mr. Sepanski merely forgot to recall that neither Gregor Mendel nor Charles Darwin were trained as scientists when curiosity got the best of them. Dr. Dave Draper nicely summarizes my feelings. Regards, - -- Dave Johnson Dept. of Biol. Scie. Bowling Green State University Return to table of contents
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