---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Obsessive Brewers, Toasting crushed malt ("David R. Burley")
  re:EBC/SRM conversion (Charles Burns)
  Re: Science in brewing (Aaron A Sepanski)
  science; beer for the millenium; Schneider yeast question (Mike Uchima)
  Re: RO Water & scientific minds (Matt Gadow)
  Home brewing really is simple (really) (RANDY ERICKSON)
  All grain ramblings (Matthew Arnold)
  Internet links (Adam Holmes)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  The Jethro GABF Report ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Millenium Ale (Andrew Ager)
  Trub filter / Sam Smith rev ("Andrew Avis")
  science thread (michael rose)
  Fermentation Technology short course (Robert Parker)
  Re: Drilling holes in refrigerator (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: EBC TO SRM (Sean Mick)
  Re: Hochkurzmaischen / Homebrewing Science ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  Re: EBC to SRM (errata) (Sean Mick)
  Differential bitterness between all malt and adjuct brews ("Michel J. Brown")
  Lovibond vs. SRM ("Michel J. Brown")
  too much science???? ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Steeping your Grains (Nicholas Bonfilio)
  Re:  Hop plugs in a cask? (Jeff Hewit)
  Dry Hopping, Dr. Science (GuyG4)
  Headless Weizen strikes again ("David G. Humes")
  Vanishing Pumpkin (Kit Lemmonds)
  Refridgerators for temperature control (Donovan)
  Re : EBC to SRM conversion (Christian Guenther)
  PACMAN yeast and Brewtek's CL-50 Cal Pub strain (Mike Spinelli)
  Cooper loop in aluminum pot ("Alan McKay")
  Belgian wheat yeast (Kit Anderson)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:25:00 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Obsessive Brewers, Toasting crushed malt

Brewsters:

Jeff of Casper provides an opinion based on what his store sales are and
how that relates to the activities of brewer hobbyists. This claimed low
use of all-grain (2%??) says your store is out of the ordinary,  perhaps.=

Along with some of the other statistics about the science involved (5%
interested in Amylase - I doubt it).   Pretty much your reported results
relate to my opinion of who are the "wet their toe types" is in this hobb=
y.
However, Jeff, if you ask yourself how about how many of  those who are
repeat customers fit your "profile" I'll bet you get a different answer
entirely.  It also may suggest something to you about sponsoring a brewin=
g
club to convert these beginners into long term brewers who do care to
produce better beer for the rest of their life than they did when they
opened their first can of extract.

Jeff says:

>  The digest attracts those who have crossed
>the line between hobby and obsession,

Thank you, Dr. Freud!

> but by no means should we ever credit
>ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely
>represent the hobbyists.

I think you are way off base and I can speak as a homebrewer who has been=

brewing since 1969 and lived through this marvelous revolution of one in
which homebrew was properly distained to one in which homebrew beats out
the big boys.  HBD has played a large part in it by providing an open for=
um
where all brewers can ask and question without getting personally attacke=
d
and contributions can be analysed for their correctness without rancor. =

This forum has a large number of the popular hobbyist writers as its
membership and they are undoubtedly influenced by the HBD.  Like the turt=
le
we can only move forward with our neck stuck out.  We must strive to be a=
t
the leading edge, not back in the pack because advancement never happens
there. I think the HBD does just that.
- -------------------------------------
Ron Richie incorrectly had his grains ground at the HB store before
toasting them for a Marzen and asks

>Intuition tells me I should still be able to toast the ground grain,
albeit
>for a briefer period or, perhaps, at a lower temperature.  Thus the
obvious
>question: how long at what temp?  Any ideas?

I would use the same schedule. My only concern, Ron, is that the flour fr=
om
the crushed grain can be explosive if you have a gas oven.  Be careful. A=
nd
for sure don't stir the ground grain in the oven.
- ---------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 97 08:56 PDT
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: re:EBC/SRM conversion

I'm somewhat unclear about the relationship between Lovibond and SRM but 
here's a couple of formulas that I found in the Beer Judge Certification 
Exam Guide written by Greg Walz and Copyrighted in 1992, 1995 (page 17):

EBC = (2.65 * L) - 1.2

L = (EBC + 1.2) / 2.65

Greg's note following the formulae states:

"Note that these formulas are only rough approximations, since different 
methods are used in their determinations."

Additionally Greg lists the following references:

"A Simple Technique for Evaluating Beer Color" by George Fix, __ZYMURGY__ 
magazine, Volume 11, Number 3, Fall 1988."

Charley (still studying) in N. Cal


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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:20:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Aaron A Sepanski <sepan001 at uwp.edu>
Subject: Re: Science in brewing


Ok, OK.  Enough is enough.  I stated one little opinion and now I am
getting crucified.  Does a stamp collecter talk about the scientific
process and chemical composition of the glue on the back?  That's what I'm
saying.  It's a hobby for Christ's sake.  Have fun.  Drink people's beer,
share yours.  But my God, let's come back down to earth.  You guys that
are interested in that stamp glue really aren't liking it at all.  

Aaron


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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 10:27:34 -0500
From: Mike Uchima <uchima at mcs.net>
Subject: science; beer for the millenium; Schneider yeast question

Regarding the "Science in Brewing" thread...  I think having a broad
cross-section of brewers -- from beginners who are just starting out, to
those who have the formal scientific training and/or are making a career
out of it -- is one of this forum's great strengths.

Why can't we just accept that there's a whole spectrum of possible
approaches, from extract-based kit brews to those who take an "artistic"
approach to hard-core scientific, and everything in between?  For those
of us who aren't brewing professionally (yet! :-)), let's not lose sight
of the fact that our primary goal is to have fun, and make some good
beer while we're at it.  For those who are into the scientific
discussions, keep it coming... it's much better to let people reading
the digest select what they want to read, than to censor it at the
source.

++++

Noel Lephart asks about "Millenium Ale":
> I thought that ale's are one of the faster maturing brews.  
> Is it possible that this stuff would taste anything like 
> it is supposed to, in that many years?  

I'm not familiar with Millenium Ale, but a really strong ale (like
Imperial Stout, Barleywine, or some of the Belgian Strong ales) can
withstand several years in the bottle, and many will even improve with
age.  Assuming that this stuff has an OG of around 1.100 (or higher),
hanging onto it until the start of the new millenium isn't unreasonable.

Even so, IMO this sort of has the feel of a marketing gimmick...

++++

A question for anyone who has experimented with yeast cultured from
Schneider Weisse bottles...  I have now done a total of 4 batches with
this yeast.  Of those 4 batches, two turned out very nice, while the
other two had some peculiar off flavors -- possibly fusel alcohols
and/or acetaldehyde (not sure).  Based on this (admittedly limited)
data, the pattern seems to be that the batches that are fermented cooler
(around 65F) have the off flavors, while those that are fermented
somewhat warmer (70-72F) do not.  This is the reverse of what I would
have expected.  Anybody else have any insight into this?  Does this
yeast simply prefer warmer temperatures?

(A 5th batch with Schneider yeast is currently fermenting at about 70F,
so I'll know in a week or two whether the pattern holds.)

- -- 
== Mike Uchima == uchima at mcs.net ==


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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:28:17 -0700
From: Matt Gadow <mgadow at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RO Water & scientific minds

I would like to publicly thank the esteemed Spencer Thomas, Al K, and AJ
Delange who responded either privately or on this forum to my basic
question about RO water PH.  AJ's response especially, was very fun to
read in light of the current "battle of the Luddites"!
The opportunity for question / answer dialogue which HBD has provided me
over the last several months has most definately made me a better
brewer, and I continue to be amazed at the personal care taken by some
of the best in the field to respond to my and other's questions.  Thanks
again to all of the HBD illuminati!

As you have read here, my RO water ph was lowered by carbonic acid from
CO2 in the air leeching into the RO water.  AJ questioned the low ph of
4.5 that I had noted in the original post, which got me thinking about
the carboys full of RO water I was using.  I had accumlated the water
over a period of several weeks, and stored the carboys in the garage,
with carboy caps that had holes for airlocks.  It made me wonder whether
the warm ~90deg. tempurature, and the co2 from pulling the cars in and
out of the garage would speed up or intensify the process of carbonic
acidification.

Now I'm curious, so I am planning on testing the theory by refilling a
carboy, (and storing some water in and out of the garage) and testing ph
from the time of RO filtration through to the next brew in a week or
two.  I'll let you know what I find...

BTW - I forgot to use a new acronym - IMWR?? :))

Thanks for some great info, guys!

Matt Gadow


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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:36:43 -0700
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: Home brewing really is simple (really)

In an interesting treatise, brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) reminds
us that we on the HBD don't exactly represent the typical homebrewer. 
He's probably right and I agree with most of what he says.

I have to take exception, however, with Jeff's last point, namely:

"[B]ut by no means should we ever credit ourselves for the
advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely represent the
hobbyists."

With one dubious exception, just about every homebrewing author of
any merit at all has participated in the HBD over the years.  Some rather
frequently.  And in the case of the history of Porter (Graham Wheeler)
and the modification of modern malts (George Fix et al) -- just to name
two subjects covered in the last year -- you heard it here first!  Certainly
their words on these pages have advanced the hobby.

What about that awesome "new" beer style, Classic American Pilsner? 
IMO, Jeff Renner single-handedly advanced the hobby several notches
on that one.

How about KennyEddy's gadgets and software?  RIMS?  Spencer's Beer
Page?  Jack and the amazing MM?  And the list goes on.

Heck, even my club's newsletter (circulation 40) wouldn't exist today
without the encouragement (and material) I've received from the HBD.  

Cheers -- Randy


Randy Erickson
Modesto, California
randye at mid.org

Stanislaus Hoppy Cappers
c/o Barley & Wine, Ceres, CA
www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/1970/


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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 16:59:33 GMT
From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: All grain ramblings

Greetings, Oh Wise Collective,

First of all, my $.02 for the scientific/non-scientific stuff. When I first
subscribed to HBD, I was blown away by some of the technical stuff. I was about
ready to burn my equipment. As if by fate, AlK posted a comment about being
able to make good, nay great, beer with extract and dry yeast. My hope was
restored. Thanks to Al, Scott K, Charley B and many others for patiently
responding to me in my ignorance. I'm a better brewer for it.

Having said that, I do make frequent use of the Page Down key when reading HBD,
but that's to be expected. Nothing will apply to everyone.

I bring this up because hopefully I will be making the big transition to
all-grain brewing this winter. The reasons I want to are threefold:
1) I've always wanted to. The idea of making beer from nothing but malt strikes
me as extremely cool. I saw a family friend brew all grain when I was younger
and it just stuck with me.
2) My frustration with trying to brew extremely light (aka Czech Pils) beers or
beers with high amounts of Munich, etc., malts using extracts. Sure there's
Marie's extract and the stuff from William's, but it's quite expensive.
3) It would be nice to save money per batch.

Anyway, (don't hit that Page Down key just yet!) here's my questions:
1) My local water supply is quite heavily chlorinated. More so than other towns
I've lived in. Will simply heating it to mash temps drive off most of the
chlorine or will I need to briefly boil it? I do have a Brita pitcher, but it
would take a small amount of forever to get enough water through it. I don't
want Clorox Pale Ale.
2) Could someone PLEASE very simply tell me what the difference between fly and
batch sparging is? What I thought about doing is just adding all the sparge
water to the mash (carefully) to maintain a couple inches of water over the
grain. Advantages/disadvantages?
3) I have a five gallon brewpot so I was either going to do a four gallon batch
or do a partial boil. I know there was some discussion and tips recently about
partial boils with all-grain brewing. I tried to search for it but was
unsuccessful. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance,
  Matt

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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:37:09 -0600 (MDT)
From: Adam Holmes <adamholm at holly.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: Internet links

I was looking at the Technical Library in the Brewery and was most
interested in two links: Plans for making beer cases and a link for water
synthesis.  Are they gone forever or does someone have an updated address?

Adam Holmes
adamholm at holly.colostate.edu


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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 97 14:50:11 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

		The Jethro Gump Report
>From: Jay Reeves <jay at or.com>
>Subject: Hop plugs in a cask?
>Can anyone tell me (no fair guessing) a normal
>procedure for dryhopping a cask? 

	I would just throw them in, and bung. If you feel the need to break them
up, do so, but I think the difference would be marginal.

>From: 00nelephart at bsuvc.bsu.edu
>Subject: Millenium Ale

>  It is called Millenium Ale.
>As explained, this ale is, supposedly, aging in the bottle, and is to be 
>consumed on the night of the new millenuim.  <SNIP>  I thought that ale's
>are one of the faster maturing brews.  Is it possible that this stuff would
>taste anything like it is supposed to, in that many years?  , "There were
only 4000 units
shipped 
>to the U.S., and we are able to receive 8 units total, 4 this month, and 4 
>next month."  Is this also more bull?

	Couldn't say about the number of bottles available, but what a great
marketing concept! I wish I had thought of it, as I am sure they will sell
a bunch. But, I would buy one, and split it between friends, and then
decide if I wanted to buy more.
	While ales are faster to ferment and produce, some heavyweight ales, like
strong ales, and barleywines can and do improve with years of aging. Now if
this beer is a lightweight beer, say a pilsner, forget it, but a strong
ale, perhaps it will be worth it.

>From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net>
>Subject: Pre-Gelatinized Grains
>I have a bag of flaked barley, and a bag of flaked oats (25 lbs. each).
>Both say "pre-gelatinized".  
>Don't these grains have to go through gelatinization prior to mashing?
>I thought that rolling (or flaking?) created the necessary heat to
>gelatinize.  Now I'm all screwed up.  Do I have to boil these grains
>prior to mashing?

	No. Just toss them into the mash, as you dough in. I used to just throw
them into the mill with the rest of the grains, being a lazy fella, and not
wanting to lift the bag, and stir at the same time. Worked for me!

>From: 00nelephart at bsuvc.bsu.edu
>Subject: Brew Pub Venture
>A friend and myself are talking about starting a brew pub.   Does anyone
out there have >suggestions about
>such a major investment.   Anything would be a great deal of help. 

	Brewpubs have been done for as little as 20K$, and the more usual figure
is up to 250 to 500 K$. Depends on a lot of variables. What do you want to
do? Build
from the ground up, or approach an existing restauranteur and see about
working with him? What do you see the place looking like?  A small place
like the LABCO, or a more major setting like a Rockbottom or Wynkoop
property? 
	Call the IBS  at  303-447-0816. In fact, I recommend that you join the IBS.
They have resources to assist you. American Craftbrewing Academy in
California(?) has a seminar on this very subject. Look through the trade
papers, and subscribe to Brewpub, Brewing Techniques, New Brewer, All About
Beer, Nation's Restaurant News, and other restaurant mags. Remember that a
brewpub is nothing more than a restaurant, with an added attraction, that
just happens to add ambiance with a very healthy profit margin.
	You haven't said where you want to locate. Care to say more?

>From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
>Subject: Home brewing really is simple (really)
>  The digest attracts those who have crossed
>the line between hobby and obsession, but by no means should we ever credit
>ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely
>represent the hobbyists.

	Jeff is right, to a degree. The digest attracts brewers of all levels, but
clearly retains 'posting' brewers more interested in developing their
obsessions. But, to even some small degree, I think that the HBD does
advance the hobby. I know that with the knowledge I have gained from the
digest, I have personally aided many a brewer that called and asked, "Is my
beer ruined?" And I know that many HBD'rs will have had the same
experience. 
	But, I also think we may be overlooking the fact that the vast majority of
HBD'rs are lurkers, learning at their own rates of desired progression. For
every one of the advanced brewers, say a Dave Burley, Al. K, or Dave
Draper, that post on a regular basis, there must be several hundred that
pick out what they can use, and let the rest just scroll down. 
	Another point not made here is that with all hobbies there are many that
may take up the exercise, and pursue it to a greater or lesser degree than
others. In skydiving, I found that over the 20 odd years that I was
involved to any degree, that out of 100 newbies, only 5 would finish the
full course, and only 1 or 2 of those would become 'experienced' with at
least 200 jumps. Same thing here. 
	As for the whole science versus practice argument, I am of course firmly
in the latter category. But, do I wish to see the scientific side of the
HBD go away? Hell, no. How else am I going to learn to improve my beers,
and increase my knowledge? Yeah, right, like I can afford a brewing school!

>From: Chris Schmidt <CSCHMIDT at LHSNET.COM>
>>From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
>>Subject: Homebrew and the law
>> I have a friend who owns an apple orchard.  He claims
>>that he can produce "Hard" cider and sell it without a license etc.. 
Claims
>>some kind of "Grandfather" law that allows for this as this goes back to
>>the beginning of the United States etc.
>I question whether the ATF feels the same way.

	This was the subject of controversy some time ago, when Bert Grant, had a
cider produced under what he said was the 'Roadside Farmers" clause, that
allowed for the manufacture and sale of cider by non-licensed individuals.
I believe Bert ceased production when it was pointed out that as a licensed
brewer, he could not claim to be a Farmer, nor a roadside vendor. But, I
believe there is such a provision in the ATF law.

Cheers!
J.G.


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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 97 14:54:56 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro GABF Report

		The Jethro GABF Report
Greetings from Denver!  Am now at the Exec Tower, recovering from a
brewer's party that started in a huge ballroom, then ended up in one of the
tasting rooms for the PPBT, and helped get rid of some of the excess suds
following judging! Its a tough job, but we were there to lend a hand when
the need arose!
	It's good to be back among the brewers again, and saw many of the usual
crowd of suspects, Charlie P. and his new wife, Richie Backus, Brian Rezac,
Daniel Bradford, Alan Moen, Phil Doersam, Dave Edgar, Sharon Mowrey, Garret
Oliver, Mark Silva, Tomme Arthur, Jim Parker, and the list goes on. Kinney
Baughman is VERY conspicuous in his absence!
	You may be interested to know that one of the judges, whom I have known
for many years, asked to be excused from the final round of the fruit beer
judging. In his own words, "I knew who brewed two of them in the running
for medals. They are very distinctive commercial products, and once  I
tasted them and knew which products they were, I felt it wouldn't be fair
to continue."  Decent attitude, yes?
	This years GABF, for those who don't know will be different in a few
aspects from previous events. The awards ceremony will be held during the
members only session, which is the first session this year. Advantages are,
you will know straight away where the gems are, and the Saturday that was
used for members in the past will now allow more of the public to attend,
thus exposing more beer hounds to the good stuff. Disadvantages may well be
that the medal winning beers may be gone before the end of the second day.
Time will tell.
	Also, this year, the GABF has allowed breweries that met the time
deadline, but applied after the 400 slots were filled to send beers for
judging in PPBT. Advantages....more brewers can get real feedback on their
brews, Disadvantages....there may well be beers awarded medals that are not
available for the public to taste. Again, time will tell how it spins out,
but this experiment certainly will be instrumental in guiding next years
rules book.
	While, of course, there will be some delay between these posts, and their
appearance on the digest, I will try and fill you in on some of the goings
on, as they happen.

Cheers!
J.G.

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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:07:05 -0500
From: Andrew Ager <andrew-ager at nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Millenium Ale

Greetings.

Millenium Ale is, IIRC, a strong ale brewed by King & Barnes of England.
It is _not_ a gimmick, nor is it a load of bull.  I believe Michael Jackson
wrote about it in an issue of All About Beer earlier this year.  It's a
small batch, thus the exceptionally low import numbers.

If you enjoy strong beers and specialty beers, I'd pick one up quick,
before the other beer geeks raid the store.

Cheers,

Andy Ager		Brewer, beer geek, free-lance historian.
Chicago, IL
http://www.devnull.net/~andy (will appear when I have free time again)
"The Puritanical nonsense of excluding children and -- therefore --
to some extent women from pubs has turned these places into mere
boozing shops instead of the family gathering places that they ought to be."
     --George Orwell



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Date: 2 Oct 1997 13:44:39 -0600
From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.0519423 at nt.com>
Subject: Trub filter / Sam Smith rev

                      Subject:                              Time:  2:13 =
PM
  OFFICE MEMO         Trub filter / Sam Smith revisited     Date:  =
2/10/97

Many thanks to those who responded to my question about the copper loop =
hop/trub filter.  

To summarize the responses: Most people also found that a very small =
amount of trub made it through, although a few had perfectly clear wort =
every time.  It seems that the size of the slits makes a difference =
(there are "narrow" hacksaw blades, and even smaller dremel tools for =
making very small slits), as does the grain bill (I was using 8.5% oats, =
causing lots of break).  This information might be useful for =
constructing copper mashtun manifolds as well.

As for my question about what yeast to use when emulating Sam Smith Taddy =
Porter:
3 votes for Wyeast 1098
2 for 1335
1 each for 1084 and 1028

Al Korzonas mentioned that the Yeast Culture Kit company actually has the =
Sam Smith yeast.  He also pointed me to a tour of the Sam Smith brewery =
on his site (www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo) which was quite well done.  It =
seems that (according to one of Michael Jackson's books, anyway)  the =
Yorkshire Square fermentors (made of slate) contribute sigificantly to =
the beer's characte.  Now I just need to construct a stone carboy...

Cheers, 
Drew Avis


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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 13:53:14 -0700
From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: science thread

Brewshop-Coffy writes,
> but by no means should we ever credit
> ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely
> represent the hobbyists.
>
	I've probably given some of my homebrew to 100 people over the past few
years and its doubtful that any of them took up the hobby, but most of
them went away learning that there are more than just 3 catagories of
beer (Bud-Miller-Coors). You may respond that these people don't brew,
so they are not hobbiest. Thats like saying if you don't PLAY
pro-football or DRIVE a Nascar race car then you can't be passionate
about it. Only recently has good quality beer become available to the
American public via brew-pubs. A lot of this change can be credited to
this digest.
 
           Fromer bud drinker,   Mike Rose
 
P.S. Responding to the too much science remark, I've learned more from
this digest than I have from my brewing books or my homebrew friends.
Thank-you to all who take the time to contribute.

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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:58:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Parker <parker at parker.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Fermentation Technology short course

Found the following in an announcement mailed to me. From January 19-23,
the MIT Center for Advanced Educational Services is offering a course
entitled Fermentation Technology. The good news...it's in Switzerland
during ski season. The bad news...it's $3000. For info, see

http://web.mit.edu/winter-programs/

Rob Parker
parker.242 at osu.edu


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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:34:06 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Re: Drilling holes in refrigerator

> >From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
> 
> >Has anyone tried drilling holes through a modern 21 cu ft (Amana)
> >refrigerator - the condenser is located in the base of the machine
> and is fan
> >cooled. Where is the evaporator ? I suspect it runs through the back
> and
> s>ides of the refrig. is this true ? I remember someone saying
> recently that
> >he walls had a bazzilion tubes in them. If I drill willy-nillie
> through the
> >back or walls IMRR (is my refrig ruined). 
> 
> Of course your refrigerator is ruined (YRIR), all the cool air will
> leak out!  :>)))
> 
> Sorry - could not resist, but seriously I can only tell you what I
> found in my Kenmore 21 cu foot side by side.
> 
> I needed to replace the evaporator fan (the cold one).  And it was
> located inside the freezer on the back wall,
> the fan blew air through and around the evaporator core, an aluminum
> finned object.  So if you have this kind
> of equipment, than it should be easy to find it. The fan and panels
> are made to easily (ha ha ha ha) be removed
> for servicing.
> 
> Happy Brewing
> 
> Ron

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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Re: EBC TO SRM

BRAAM wrote:
>How can I convert EBC to SRM ?
>Are there a formula for this ?

>I would prefer to convert EBC to SRM because I understand  that
>Lovibond is not described by a simple mathematical formula.
>Can EBC be described by a simple formula ?

Fred Eckhardt notes ("The Essentials of Beer Style") that sometimes the
conversion looks like this:

1 degree EBC = 2.65 degrees SRM less 1.2

This, I think, only works approximately for lighter color beers under the
color of Michelob dark. I'm sure others can comment on the exact reasons
why. HTH.


Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:10:00 +0200
From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at>
Subject: Re: Hochkurzmaischen / Homebrewing Science

Dave Burley wrote in HBD#2519

> To be as clear as I can be, I believe that the average modification
> of *Pale* German malts used in the Hochkurzmaishen and other infusion related
> mash schedules can (and maybe must) have a higher modification than
> *Pilsner* and *Lager* malts of yesteryear used in Germany.

Hochkurzmaischen is a _decoction_ related mash schedule. The original 
form is a double decoction:
mashing in at 62C
primary, thick decoction to 70-72C
secondary decoction to mashout at 76-78C. 

Features:

Unusual high mashing in temp! ...You're right Dave, the malts 
*must* be very well modified and homogenous -Kolbach index >40%.

Using traditional decoction methods, 70-72C is only touched via short 
conversion rests of partial mashes. The longer rest of the residual 
mash in Hochkurzmaischen promotes releasing glycoproteids.

Due to smaller partial mashes and shorter schedules (2 hours) energy 
consumption is lower than with conventional decoction -an important 
factor for our big brothers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Homebrewing Science:

Everyone of us knows the signature of Rob Moline:

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More
About Beer!"

 ...There's nothing to add!

CHEERS &
sehr zum Wohle!

Hubert in Salzburg - Austria
http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/

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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Re: EBC to SRM (errata)

Oops! I should have said it only works for beers of 4 degrees SRM or less.
This info is according to George Fix, as found in "Evaluating Beers,"
resulting from a conversation with Roger Briess (Briess Malting), and his
own experiments/research. Apparently, the two scales (EBC and SRM) use
completely different analytical procedures to reach their results,
therefore, conversions between the two using a mathematical equation is
held suspect in the professional brewing community.



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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:25:31 -0800
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com>
Subject: Differential bitterness between all malt and adjuct brews

>
>Finally, it's also likely that since the all-grain recipe added a 
>different mineral profile to the brew than the adjunct recipe did,
>you probably are experiencing some different ion-hop flavor 
>interactions also.
>
I'd really like to know how that this could have happened when I used the
exact same mineral profile, and the exact same water. I think the theory
about yeast metabolism causing the differential in *perceived* bitterness
is the most likely explanation. I presumed that this was the case, but not
being an Enologist/Zymurgist by trade or education, was merely speculation on
my part. Thanks for the input!


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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 16:31:40 -0800
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com>
Subject: Lovibond vs. SRM

Thanks to Fred I have resolved my dilemma! Apparently Fred was correct about
spurious light striking my quartz test tube...when I pushed the tube inside
the cell hole in the spectrophotometer, light was leaking around *sides* of
the test tube via internal reflection (relatively high index of refraction for
quartz. This was easily demonstrated by calibrating, then testing, then
recalibrating the Spec100 successively. My measurments were ~10-20% off. The
solution was to place an opaque container over the tube entry orifice while
calibrating, and testing. This has reduced my error to +- 0.05%, which is
within the specified tolerance for my old, but reliable (thanks to Fred)
spectrophotometer!


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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 16:50:19 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: too much science????

Are Aaron A Sepanski and Joe Rolfe saying that there is not
enough science in professional brewing but too much in HBD?
Is this really a bad thing?

If this forum is too serious, there's always alt.beer.

brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) writes:
>In reference to the recent posts about the over-complicated discussions
>that sometimes seem to overrun the digest, I would guesstimate the
>following figures are pretty close to average for all home brewers in the
<stats snipped>

Your numbers are interesting if they are accurate.  It seems odd to
me that only 5% or fewer brewers have brought about such changes
in supplies in the last few years.  Hops are now labeled with AA and
sometimes Beta acids and oils and are in O2 bags.  Maltsters have
increased the varieties of malt they offer and are sending analysis sheets.
Books by Dr. Fix and Dave Miller and others and magazines like Brewing
Techniques keep updating brewers on new technical information.  HBD
subscriptions keep climbing.  The AHA offers a technical forum.  Is all
this due to just a few of the thousands of homebrewers?

          - Bryan

            gros at bigfoot.com
            Oakland, CA

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Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 17:04:52 -0700
From: Nicholas Bonfilio <nicholas at Remedy.COM>
Subject: Steeping your Grains

My brewing experiences have just started. I have brewed 3 batches of ale.
For the last 2 batches, I have been following the partial-mash technique.
One thing puzzles me regarding steeping the grain--is it critical to steep
in just a few quarts of liquor?  I have been using a couple of gallons.  I
figured that I will be combining the steeped liquor to the plain liquor
anyway...  Could there be any penalties steeping in even 5 gallons?  I
appreciate any suggestions.

Nick  

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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:18:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Hewit <jhewit at erols.com>
Subject: Re:  Hop plugs in a cask?

I can't comment about dry hopping with plugs in a cask, but I routinely dry
hop with plugs during secondary fermentation in a carboy.  I need to cut
them in half to get them through the hole, but it's much easier and quicker
than using whole hops.  Within a day, the plugs have broken up and float
around pretty much like whole hops.

Jeff Hewit
Midlothian, VA


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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:54:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: GuyG4 at aol.com
Subject: Dry Hopping, Dr. Science

Sorry to break up this discussion about science or art, but..perhaps someone
would help out a bit with a mundane brewing question.

I recently entered an IPA in a local competition.  I took 3rd in the IPAs,
and judges comments were excellent.  Both said "needs more hops, try dry
hopping!" Yeah, well, this puppy sat in the secondary under 2 ounces of E.
Kent Goldings for 2 bloody weeks, OK...but, of course, the judges were right,
and it just didn't have the hop nose I was looking for.

Perhaps one of our scientific bretheren could expand on a couple of issues.
 How about: What factors enhance dryhopping, what factors in wort might
thwart dry hopping effects, what hops are best to select for dryhopping and
why.  I have had a very difficult time with a lot of beers getting the kind
of hop nose I want.

Artists are welcome to reply too, but I think I need science here,
folks...though we geologists tend to mix art and science until we're wrong...

BTW, if you haven't entered a competition, do so.  You'll learn a lot about
your beer.

Still resting at 122F,
Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
Spokane, WA

"I ain't an athlete....I'm a baseball player!" - John Kruk

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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 00:20:48 -0400
From: "David G. Humes" <d.humes at internetMCI.com>
Subject: Headless Weizen strikes again

Greetings,

I've been attempting to get a reasonable approximation to the weizen
style by using a step mashing schedule rather than the more traditional
decoction schedules.  Unfortunately, my shedule has included the now
much maligned 122F rest, and my results have been great tasting but
headless beers.  Even though I can accept the arguments against the 122F
rest, I've got to wonder if something else is the real head killer in
this beer.  If the lack of medium length proteins is the alledged cause
of poor head retention, then I would think that the beer prior to
fermentation would not be able to form much of a head when it is
areated.  However, when I areate, the wort kicks up a considerable head
of foam which takes hours to subside.  Is the foam produced in the wort
the result of different compounds than those which sustain head in the
fermented beer?  If so, then either these compounds must be metabolized
during fermentation, or the fermentation is producing compounds that
reduce head retention.  I would suspect that the 4-vinyl guaiacol,
characteristic of a weizen fermented with the Weinhestephan yeast, would
not be conducive to a good head since it is a high molecular weight
alcohol.  I've reduced my fermentation temperature a little to try to
get a little less 4-vinyl guaiacol, but so far my weizens remain
headless.  I don't want to reduce it much more, otherwise it won't be a
weizen.  Any thoughts?

Thanks.


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
d.humes at internetMCI.com                          Dave Humes
- -----------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 06:38:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kit Lemmonds <klemmonds at aristotle.net>
Subject: Vanishing Pumpkin

There have been recent posts on losing the pumpkin aroma and flavor during
the fermentation process.  I have survived that problem with my pumpkin ale,
but ran into another (and even more annoying) problem.  I think I was able
to keep the pumpkin flavor in my beer because it was playing around a bit.
My mash was 3.2lbs of Libby's pumpking pie filling and 1lb US 2 row malt (I
know, I should have used more malt).  This was the first 'mash' I'd ever
done, and I was using the oven/pot technique.  I had never demanded precise
temperatures from the oven before, and so I discovered that my mash was
actually at 134f-140f for 90 minutes (instead of 150f).  Knowing that
enzymes are very temp sensitive, I simply upped the temp for another 90
minutes - so my mash actually got a 3 hour tour.  The aroma during brewing
was almost overpowering.  This mellowed in the fermentor but did not subside
too much.  Of course, mine was a heavily spiced ale (1oz pump pie spice in
boil, 1oz at bottling), so the ale really does taste like pumpking pie.  I
used a brown ale malt recipe for the body of the brew, and the malt was
nicely complimented by the pumpkin.

Unfortunately, this was also the first time I used a header liquid before
bottling.  Later I discovered that my beer was almost completely flat.  I
don't know what caused this.  Perhaps when the pumpking fell out in the
secondary fermentor (this fallout was actually so heavy I had to switch to a
tertiary fermentor after 4 days) it filtered the yeast out with it.  It also
could be something in the pumpkin pie filling (I now realize they have eggs
in this, which would explain the egg odors mentioned by others).  The beer
tastes good, so I've been drinking it flat, but I've also been trying to
find a way to kick start conditioning (I've added sugar to bottles and then
recapped, which was a mess; I've dropped a little dried yeast into the
bottles) nothing works.

With all that in mind, I would suggest lenthening your mash times with
pumpkin (if you're mashing your pumpkin separately).  I think this was the
thing that kept the pumpkin flavor in my batch.

Just wanted to relay my experiences with you.

byebye 
__________________________________________________________
If a story seems moral, do not believe it.
If you don't care for obscenity, you don't care
for the truth.
			Tim O'brien
			The Things They Carried
__________________________________________________________
Kit Lemmonds
klemmonds at aristotle.net


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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:26:49 -0500
From: Donovan <dlambright at socketis.net>
Subject: Refridgerators for temperature control

I'm thinking very seriously of buying a small fridge to hold a carboy during
fermentation.  I know you can buy a thermostat with a probe to make the
fridge maintain a temperature beyond it's normal range (55-70 degrees).
Does it matter whether I get a fridge or freezer?  I seem to recall reading
once that a freezer works better with such a thermostat, but I can't find
the citation where I think I read it.

Any opinions or experience out there?  Thanks.

Donovan Lambright		And I wonder, yes I wonder...
dlambright at socketis.net	Will Elvis take the place of Jesus in 1000 years? 					
 				
			"A Growing Boy Needs His Lunch"
			by Dead Kennedys
				
				


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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:17:54 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Christian Guenther <t9e01bh at sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re : EBC to SRM conversion 



Hi to everyone !

While reading this question about converting EBC colour units I found out
that I have never heard of SRM or Lovibond units before.So know I'm 
also interested in this question.- Does anybody have more detailed 
information obout common used brewing units in USA ?

As far as I'm concerned the EBC colour unit is defined as :


    C = 25 * E               E : extinktion at 430 nm in a 10 mm kuevette
                                 mesuared against distilled water 
                             C : colour unit (Europeean Brewery Convention)

One gets the best correlation between a wort sample from the malt and the 
colour of the beer when one boiles the mash sample before mesuaring the
extinktion.

So long prost,


          Christian Guenther  
                                  


Freising / Germany                                            
 



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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 10:14:00 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: PACMAN yeast and Brewtek's CL-50 Cal Pub strain

HBDers,
Regarding Rogue's Pacman yeast, I have it on good (ie. PhD) 
authority that Brewer's Resource Brewtek CL-50 Cal Pub strain
IS the Pacman strain.

I've used it a bunch and like it.  

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ


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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 10:30:34 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com>
Subject: Cooper loop in aluminum pot


John Schnupp is having trouble with his copper loop.

John, I've been using one of these things for about 2 years now.  I
drilled mine
with a very small bit (1/16 or 1/32), with hole about every 1/4 inch.

I have noticed that it only really works well with whole hops, and full
volume boils.
If your gravity gets extremely high as with partial-volume boils, the
thing tends
to clog.  Similarly so if you are using hop pellets.

But I almost never use pellets, and am extremely pleased with my copper
loop.

 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay
Nortel Enterprise Networks
Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations
PC Support Prime


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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 10:48:53 -0500
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Belgian wheat yeast

Greg Young asked;
> Is there a difference between a
> Belgian Wit and a Belgian Wheat?

No. It is the same animal. The Wyeast yeast is OK but not the best for a
wit abd it takes too long. I like the "breadiness" of the cultures from
Yeast Labs and Brewer's Resource. I have kegged in a week with this
stuff. 
It should be citrusy, not clovey.
- -- 

Kit Anderson		ICQ# 2242257
Bath, Maine			kitridge at bigfoot.com

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---