---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  s and Tribulations in the Commercial Brewing World ("Dr. Pivo")
  Materials: Bronze or Polysulfone?? (Harlan Bauer)
  Re: How to win a contest // Styles / Alan Moen (Dana Edgell)
  7 Gallon Coolers  at  Home Depot ("Mark Nelson")
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Valid survey? (AlannnnT)
  re: Home Depot Coolers ("Michel J. Brown")
  re: Tips on force carbonation ("Michel J. Brown")
  Boulder boiling, pumpkin ale recipe (Jim Bentson)
  Tcl/Tk HBD viewer (freeware) (Jim Graham)
  Boiling Point ("David R. Burley")
  Malt Modification ("David R. Burley")
  Competition Guidelines (Peter M Garofalo)
  Overnight Mashing Question ("Bruce Gill")
  beer - science or art? (Andy Walsh)
  Painted-on labels ("Mark S. Johnston")
  beer bingeing (Andy Walsh)
  pumpkin // hazy cloudy beers redux (smurman)
  FW: How do I figure OG? (chouse4)
  Johnson controller causes GFCI to trip (Imbecile.kzoo.edu)
  FW: BOSS Competition ("Daniel J. Lozynski")
  Malt Extract Tang - not, Punkin' ale ("David R. Burley")
  Steinbier Fragmentation Grenades (DAN PILLSBURY)
  Wort Storage? (Randy Kinsman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:36:55 +0000
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: s and Tribulations in the Commercial Brewing World

Hope I titled this right.

I am a lurker here, and Kinney Baugham wrote something that twisted
particularly hard on the strings of my heart, and prompted me out of my
usual silence on this forum.

I also have a "communist nature", that is, the sort of personality that
those sorts of systems are based on that there are plenty of.

I hope you read his entire piece.

 I've been there so many times: "Let's do something good together, and
everyone will be happier."  I don't know why it doesn't work out, but it
never seems to.  Wish I had a clue why monetary interests take priority
over quality and humane behaviour, but that is outside of my
understanding and this forum.

I have a sneaking suspicion that what you are able to brew, Kinney, just
"might" be better than what the brewery can produce without you (albeit
their's might be more profitable--- and that's what they are looking
at).

I don't know how to fix that, but if you can make good beer, by all
means keep doing it (I'm not always at home and could use a "topping up"
when I'm on the road).

Sorry about your loss.

If I didn't believe there was a place for honesty, beauty, and quality,
then I certainly wouldn't bother to believe in anything else either.

Dr. Pivo

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:33:49 -0500
From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: Materials: Bronze or Polysulfone??

I'm looking to buy a new pump that can handle high temperatures and have
found two that are rated for 250*F from Moving Brews. I'm wavering between a
pump housing made of bronze and the other of polysulfone. Does anyone have
any preferences one way or the other on either of these two materials? Are
there any significant reasons why bronze could/should not be used to move
boiling wort from the boiling kettle to the wort chiller?

I'd be remiss if I didn't say a few great words for Bill Stewart at Moving
Brews. He is VERY knowlegable and has been extremely prompt and helpful in
answering every question I've posed to him. Once I decide on the material I
intend to buy from him (usual disclaimers). I urge any of you in the market
for a pump to visit their web site at: 

http://www.ays.net/movingbrews/introduction.html

And if you don't find what you're looking for on the web site, email him. He
gave me prices and availability for SS, TEFC-motors, and Thomsen sanitary
pumps. He also sells SS fittings and a bunch of other good stuff and best of
all, his prices are VERY competitive. I really can't say enough good things
about my experience thus far. I'll post an update when I've made a final
decision on material and have recieved my new pump.


As an aside, I've been out of town for most of the summer, and haven't been
reading the digest much, so when I returned to find the science discussion
raging away, I dimmly recalled a thread from before I left that I routinely
PAGED DOWN from. I checked my archives and sure enough, there it was--the
Freshmen HBD! Sheesh. I hope this thread hasn't been running continuously!
;-D There's room for every level of brewer on this forum, from the first
batch newbie to the most seasoned masher, and when we least expect it we all
learn from each other because each brings a unique perspective to our shared
craft.

TIA,

Harlan

- --The first ascent of a hot-air baloon was made on November 21, 1783. A few
days later, Jacques Alexandre Charles made an ascent in a hydrogen-filled
baloon. On landing, the baloon was attacked and torn to shreads by terrified
peasants armed with pitchforks...




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:19:08 -0500
From: Dana Edgell <edgell at quantum-net.com>
Subject: Re: How to win a contest // Styles / Alan Moen


Don H Van Valkenburg writes....

>What would happen if we had a contest where beers were categorized
>according to their starting gravity within two major sub-groups;  ales
>and lagers?    And---beers were given points for creativity.   Just one
>idea.  

Actually, the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild have a contest in the
spring entitled "The Big and Huge Contest". It has 4 categories.

Big Ale (og 1.050-1.060)
Huge Ale (og > 1.060)
Big Lager (og 1.050-1.060)
Huge Lager (og > 1.060)

Contact the club at mhtg at stdorg.wisc.edu or madbrewers at ls.gdinet.com for
more info.

Dana

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell                     edgell at quantum-net.com
Edge Ale Brewery                http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale
San Diego                         home of the Water Treatment Workpage


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:58:54 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: 7 Gallon Coolers  at  Home Depot


Mark Snyder asked about buying 7 gallon coolers at Home Depot.

Having (finally) gotten mine at the local Home Depot here in Atlanta, 
let me quickly tell you how I did it.  Step one, went into the store and 
asked.  Step two, Put one on order from another store.  Steps 3-5, 
Called weekly until it came in.  Step 6, Picked it up about a month 
after ordering the thing.

Good prices, but poor customer service at Home ("It's on the other side 
of the store") Depot.

Better luck to y'all.
 - ----------------
Mark "Now waiting for my Phloating Phalse Bottom" Nelson
Atlanta, GA



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 11 Oct 97 21:42:20 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

 		The Jethro Gump Report

Banner/Tapper..
	The 5th person to request the banner was Jim Larsen of the Omaha brew
club, the Omahops. He is the VP of the club and sez it will be hung with
pride at club meetings.
	The first person to request the tapper was Grant Knechtel, of Des Moines,
Washington.  
	And that's how the luck of the draw played. I am pleased to know that a
club will have the banner, and that someone can use what is only gathering
dust in this cramped apartment.
 
A-B Versus The Federal Trade Commission..
	Tom McCormick, who spoke at The Business Of Beer Session has offered some
interesting insight into this upcoming legal battle. Most of the industry
folks I asked about this said they thought it was insignificant, and that
was just a fly on an elephants butt to A-B. But Tom's comments in another
brew forum state that the investigation has nothing to do with the 100
percent share of mind suits filed in California, but rather with the
restrictions placed in the contracts that A-B had their distributors sign
in August.
	He gave 2 illustrations;
 
"1) The day to day manager of the business must have an ownership stake of
at
least 10% in the company.  Many A/B distributors are owned by absentee
owners
who have a manager that runs the business.  In some cases, these owners just
lost 10% of a sizable company.
2) This one affects the craft beer industry. A provision states that all AB
distributors must match any incentive offered by a non-AB brand.  If  XYZ
brewery offers $50 to the sales staff for each new draft account, the
wholesaler must match that for all A/B products.  Since most A/B
distributors
don't want to offer their sales staff $50 for each new Bud, Bud Light, Mich,
Redhook etc tap handle, they will obviously decline the incentive offered by
the XYZ brewery (for better or for worse!)."

	Knowing that Tom's business is primarily as a distributor of craft brews,
these statements of his certainly got my interest. During his Business of
Beer speech, he mentioned 3 prime reasons that impact craft brewers and the
ability of folks like us to get access to the wide range of beers out
there. 1. The current consolidation of distributors has resulted in the 15
% reduction in their numbers; 2. Pressure from the megabrewers on the
distribution network; and 3. There are too many brands out there. 

Kinney Baughman..
	Kinney forget to mention that being the slacker that he is...I had to call
him repeatedly for 3 months to get him to cash the check! 
Cheers!
Jethro  Gump

Rob Moline
Brewer At Large
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 01:29:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlannnnT at aol.com
Subject: Valid survey?

Jeff Sturman writes;

 "HBD-types surely are responsible for most of the
advancements made in home brewing during the past 20 years, but HBD-types
are an extremely small percentage of the home brewing population." 

Jeff, This is quite possibly true on both accounts. I would agree with most
of your estimates about brewers. In my [small] homebrew shop the numbers are
very similar to your earlier post about brewers being extract oriented. 

Eighty percent or more of my customers have never read a Zymurgy article and
are not likey not read one soon. About half have never tried liquid yeast,
and many who have tried it don't use it often for a variety of reasons. If
brewing wasn't as easy as buying a boxed kit of extract, yeast, specialty
grains, instructions, crown caps, priming dextrose and a couple muslin bags
then half my customers would not brew.

For you doubters, consider this; my hobbies include playing basketball,
juggling, bicycling and fixing up my old house. I have never read a book or
subscribed to a magazine about anyone of these things except for the first
primer on juggling. But I consider myself an average basketball player, biker
and juggler.

The average hobbyist is not as zealous as we [HBDers] are no matter what the
hobby. 

Therefore, I propose that a survey in Zymurgy is no more able to predict the
behavior of the 'average' brewer then a survey in Runners Magazine would
accurately portray the behavior of the 'average' jogger.   

The 'average' brewer has never read a Zymurgy. If he had, he would no longer
be 'average'.

My 2 cents. Actually, my two hundred dollars. You see, I pay for an ad in
Zymurgy, so I wish more brewers would read it.

Best to all at the forefront of this, the best of all hobbies.
Alan Talman  



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1989 21:13:05 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <hommade at spiritone.com>
Subject: re: Home Depot Coolers

Mark, here in Fungus Corner (Pacific Northwest) I got my Home Depot 7
Gallon Rubbermaid cooler at the store on Airport Way in Portland, Oregon.
They were in the garden center on a pallet adjacent to where the
horticultural supplies are located.
 
			    Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C.
        		              homemade at spiritone.com 
	           http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
	               "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!"
                           "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!"
                                       Big Man Brewing (R) 1996

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1989 00:00:35 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <hommade at spiritone.com>
Subject: re: Tips on force carbonation

Steve, on my system I keg three different ways. 1.) add 120~150 grams of
dextrose and wait for a week at room temperature (70'F); 2.) pressurize the
keg to 20 psi after 4~5 days cold conditioning for another 4~5 days; or 3.)
pressurize the keg to 30 psi at cellar (55'F) and shake the dilly out of it
for 30~45 minutes, then down to 20 psi at fridge temp for 2~3 days; then
finally share and enjoy at 5 psi!

			    Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C.
        		              homemade at spiritone.com 
	           http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
	               "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!"
                           "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!"
                                       Big Man Brewing (R) 1996

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 08:07:45 -0400
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net>
Subject: Boulder boiling, pumpkin ale recipe

Ian Smith recently asked

>Does anyone know at what temperature water boils in Boulder, CO. altitude 
>5360 feet ? I would prefer a chart, table or equation if possible. I 
>would like to calibrate my thermometers so the value should be as 
>accurate as possible (within +/- 0.1 deg C ???).

Ian

 Based on 'standard day' atmospheric data and the data in  steam tables I
come up
with the boiling point of pure water at 5360 feet  ( pressure = 12.1 psi )
would be

   202.2 deg F or 94.5 deg C. 

 This involved some interpolation of the tables but I checked with some
other data and I think it is correct.


I recently mentioned a recipe I use for pumpkin ale and got about ten
requests, so I am posting it. It originally came from an Oct 7,1996 post by
Darrin Pertschi either here or from the rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup. I have
made some minor changes. As I said in my original post, I brew all-grain but
do an extract beer with pumpkin to avoid the difficulties of sparging
pumpkin. Here is the recipe for a 5 gallon batch. have made it for two years
and it makes a really nice beer.

PUMPKIN ALE (EXTRACT) 

 Ingredients for 5 gal.

Extract/Grain/Pumpkin
 6.6 lbs Northwestern Gold Extract Syrup
 1 lb Pale Ale Malt (I use Crisp Marris Otter or M&F Pale Ale
 1 lb Crystal ( 60 L) Malt
 6 cups Cooking Pumpkin (about 4lbs)

Hops
 1/2 oz Tettenanger 4.7% (40 min )
 1/2 oz. Saaz 3.6 % (10 min)

Other ( All added 10 min before end of boil)
 3 tsp ground cinnamon
 3/4 tsp allspice
 1 tsp nutmeg
 1/2 tsp vanilla extract
 2 tsp ground ginger
 3/4 tsp ground clove
 5 Corriander seeds crushed
 1 tsp Irish Moss (15 min before end of boil)

Yeast
Wyeast 1056 pitched up to 3 pints of starter over two days

S.G. 1.052
O.G. 1.013

Procedure:

To get 4 lbs of pumpkin you need a 7 - 8 lb baking (AKA  neck , cheese or
cooking) pumpkin. These are a tanner color than the orange Halloween
pumpkins. Try a farm stand if possible. While others have used the usual
orange type, I haven't so I can't comment on them. Cut the pumpkin in half
and scrape out the seeds. Then slice each half into 2-3 wedges and bake at
350 deg on a cookie sheet until tender (about 1 hour). Using a spoon, scrape
the pumpkin flesh away from the rind and collect 6 cups. 

Mash the baked pumpkin and the crushed grains in 2 gals. of water at 150 deg
for 60 minutes. Strain the pumpkin and grains from the resulting wort and
save the solids in a covered pot. For a partial volume boil ,add 2 gallons
of water to the wort, bring to a boil, remove from heat and add extract
syrup. Bring to boil and boil for 60 minutes. Add hops, spices and Irish
Moss at times given above. Chill wort and transfer to fermenter using your
normal procedure. Add remaining water by slowly filtering cold water through
the reserved grain and pumpkin solids into the fermenter. If your sieve
(sterile) can't hold all the solids, use proportionate steps. Add sufficient
cold water to bring to 5 gals. Pitch yeast . I ferment in  primary 5-6 days
in plastic at 65 deg F.Then secondary in glass 7-10 days at 50 deg F. If you
don't have a refrig. don't worry, keep it  as low as possible in the
secondary. Bottle primed with 4 0z. corn sugar. Best served at 4-8 weeks.
Don't think the spices are too much, they mellow with age. Hope you like it.

 I have also used a full volume boil where, after mashing, I sparged the
pumpkin - grain with an additional 3 gal of 170 deg water and then discarded
the pumpkin-grain solids. The wort is then brought to a boil, the extract is
added and sufficient water to bring the volume up to 6 gal prior to boil.
The remainder of the schedule is the same. I actually got slightly more
pumpkin flavor in the partial boil. Possibly due to the last filtering
through the solids compared to the early sparge followed by a boil in the
full boil possibly just variation in the pumpkin crop from year to year.

Anyone with questions can E-mail for additional info
Jim Bentson (jbentson at htp.net)
Centerport NY
- --
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz



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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:09:05 -0500
From: Jim Graham <jim at n5ial.gnt.com>
Subject: Tcl/Tk HBD viewer (freeware)

If you're like me, you usually don't get a chance to catch up on the
HBD until the weekend.  And, of course, on weekends, you're usually
busy, too.  :-)   For me, the end result is that I pick and choose
articles from the HBD based on the subject line.  Until recently, I
used less as my pager, and could search for ^Subject: to move from one
article to the next.  That wasn't bad, but last night, I came up with
what I think is a better idea.....

hbdview.tk is a Tcl/Tk based viewer for the Homebrew Digest.  As I said
in the subject line, this is freeware.  I've gotten a lot from the HBD
over the years, and this is just one small way I can try to return the
favor (besides, it's such a short script, anyone who would charge or pay
for it is crazy!).

Basically, the idea is this...when you start the script (passing either
a filename containing *ONE* issue of the HBD on the command line, or
passing the text of the issue as the standard input), you get the
following:

   1) a listbox showing the articles in that issue
   2) a text window in which the articles you select (by clicking mouse
      button 1 on an item in the listbox) is displayed
   3) buttons to reply to either the HBD or the article's author

You can get the script from my web page at http://www.gnt.net/~n5ial.
You can also look at a screen snapshot there.  If you don't already have
Tcl/Tk, see http://www.sunscript.com/.  You want the download section
(http://sunscript.sun.com/TclTkCore/8.0.html), from which you can get

   * Tcl/Tk source for UNIX, Windows, and Macintosh platforms
   * Tcl/Tk binaries for Windows and Macintosh platforms

NOTE: hbdview.tk is ALPHA CODE (remember, I just got the idea last night!),

If you use this script, and have any suggestions, please let me know.
If you're a Tcl/Tk guru, and have bug-fixes and/or enhancements, that
would also be very much appreciated.

Later,
   --jim

- -- 
73 DE N5IAL (/4)               MiSTie #49997         < Running Linux 2.0.21 >
jim at n5ial.gnt.net || j.graham at ieee.org  ICBM / Hurricane: 30.39735N 86.60439W
Jack:   DS B+Bd+O+W Y+G 2 Y L W C+ I+++ A++ S V+ F- Q++ P++ PA PL-- SC++++
Shadow: DS B+C Y+B 2 Y L++ W+ C+ I+++ A++ S+ V-- F+++ Q++ P++ PA++ PL+ SC++++


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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:34:16 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Boiling Point

Brewsters:

Ian Smith asks for information on boiling point temperature versus
altitude.  I published such a comment with equation here a month ago.  I
submitted the piece on 9/16/97.  Check the HBD archives a day or so after=

this date for this extensive discussion which I will not reproduce here..=


As part of this comment I said:

"First determine the actual temperature =

of boiling water at your location from the
 following equation ( derived below)  which
 assumes that you are not in a weather situation
 which is an abnormal high or low
 barometric pressure:

BP(F,A) =3D 212 - 0.0018(A)

Where BP(F,A) is boiling point in =

degrees Fahrenheit and A is elevation in
 feet above sea level."

Note that unless you take the barometric pressure into account at the tim=
e
of the measurement, it will be unlikely that you can calibrate to the
nearest 0.1 degree C.
 ( four significant figures)   You can gain some additional comfort in yo=
ur
numbers if you do as I suggest in my note and calibrate your thermometer
over the pertintent temperature range using various weights of boiling an=
d
ice water in a pre-heated glass thermos bottle.


Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:34:24 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Malt Modification

Brewsters:

Well, at least Chris Carolan tried to provide an answer to the question o=
f
how do we know whether a malt is well-modified or not by quoting Gregory
Noonan with some suggestions on how interpret the maltsters specification=

sheet. George Fix in his response to this question of how do we know abou=
t
the malt we buy, suggested we read his book to better understand his
position on malt modification.  He did comment that new varieties of barl=
ey
account for the big change (in the continental varieties?) in the last fi=
ve
years.  Now if we only knew what variety of barley was used in making the=

malt we buy from the homebrew shop.

Chris Carolan's experience with attempting to single-temperature infuse
continental (specifically Lager and Pilsner?) pale malts always resulted =
in
a cloudy beer, which echoes my experience.  Perhaps we should be using
those "overmodified" ( as CP calls them) British Pale (Ale) malts Charlie=

Papazian talks about in his "Homebrewers Companion", p114 if we want to
avoid the protease hold regions.

The whole point to this discussion is that we do not automatically know h=
ow
to use the anonymous malts we buy from the homebrew store. "Under-",
"Well-" and "Over- modified"  are relative terms. Perhaps less geographic=
al
than they were 50 years ago, but perhaps not as much as some would like t=
o
believe. Despite unproven protestations to the contrary, experience shows=

that many Pilsner and Lager malts are not well-modified in the sense that=

they can be used in single temperature infusions ( which is apparently ho=
w
Chris Carolan and I would use the term "well-modified").  It is far bette=
r
to be judicious and use a protease hold ( as George Fix, Chris Carolan an=
d
yours truly does), than to assume that the Lager and Pilsner  malt you bu=
y
is "well-modified" and that it can be used like a British Pale Ale malt i=
n
a single step infusion.

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:58:41 EDT
From: pgarofalo at juno.com (Peter M Garofalo)
Subject: Competition Guidelines

Don Van Valkenburg (steinfiller at juno.com) writes, on how to win a
competition:

>Brew it BIG  and brew it hoppy.  
> It wasn't a big surprised to me that a triple won the Pacific Cup
>recently.  Nor was it a  big surprise that the Orange County fair best
of
>show was won by a barley wine two years in a row.  BTW, these two
>examples of winners I have mentioned are excellent beers and I would not
>turn down a glass of either one.   However,  when was the last time you
>saw a mild win best of show??

Well, as a matter of fact, the winner of the Spirit of Free beer (401
entries, probably the largest competition on the East coast) was ...a
MILD! In fact, the second BoS beer that it beat out was...a BARLEY WINE!
Both were excellent, and well within the style guidelines. The BoS panel
was very experienced, as are most such panels, IMO. Pardon me if I
bristle at the suggestion that all beer judges are meat-headed dopes who
must be hit over the head to recognize a great beer. This is simply NOT
true. Most BJCP judges take great pride in the craft of judging.


>I have seen beers that were on the higher gravity side for their
category
>win in that category or beers that had a little more hops than the style
>required also win in their category.  I must confess that a recent
winner
>of mine that took first place in a local contest was pushing the
envelope
>for gravity in that style.      These facts only point to the subjective
>nature of contests and the relevance of styles in contests.   Judges are
>after all only human and respond to alcohol and hops.   Thus if you want
>to win a contest, brew it BIG  and brew it HAPPY.   Brew it OUTSIDE the
>styles guidelines. 

Pushing the envelope is one thing; no style guidelines are engraved in
stone. Yes, competitions are subjective (usually referred to as
"crapshoots" on another forum pertaining to judging). I am tired of
hearing complaints about this. It is easy to become a rock-thower, not so
easy to do something tangible to improve the situation. My suggestion?
Join the BJCP and work hard to become the best judge you can. Give
something back to the hobby. 

Oh, and one more thing--keep it within the competition guidelines. This
is a simple case of ethical behavior.

Cheers,

Peter Garofalo
Syracuse, NY

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 00:26:21 UT
From: "Bruce Gill" <b2g at classic.msn.com>
Subject: Overnight Mashing Question

For various time-constraint reasons, I am looking to try overnight mashing.  I 
do full mashes in either a 5 or 10 gallon Gott (depending on grain 
bill/starting gravity desired).  Several people have told me of good results 
with bringing the mash up to saccharification temperatures, going to bed, then 
getting up in the morning ready to heat and sparge.

My concern is for the body of the beer.  It seems that after several hours the 
mash temperature would (naturally) drift downward toward the prime temperature 
range for beta-amylase activity.  Even if I started my mash temperature 
(before I go to bed) as high as 158 - 160, the mash temp would, over the 
course of the night, rest for a time in "beta country", thereby undoing or 
reducing the effects of any higher initial temperature.  My understanding is 
that while there are dextrins created by alpha-amylase that beta-amylase can't 
nibble on, there are some (including those containing 7-12 glucose residues) 
the beta can, in fact, reduce.

Since beta-amylase is denatured just short of 170 (with alpha surviving about 
another 10 degrees), would boosting the bed-time mash temperature up to about 
172 take care of this problem?  Or is it even a problem at all?

Many thanks for any light the collective can shed on this.


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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:11:30 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: beer - science or art?

A brief note:
If beer were invented today, rather than centuries ago, the scientists
and engineers would never design a process that used up so much heat and
water, and distribute such a heavy package that is 90% water.
Instead they'd add enzymes to barley rather than go through the
expensive malting and mashing processes, and deliver a concentrate to
the distribution point that just required a water addition.

Aren't we fortunate?

Andy.

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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:12:32 -0400
From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net>
Subject: Painted-on labels

Here's another question for the collective:

	Has anyone found (or even looked for) a painless method of removing
painted-on labels from bottles? (e.g. - Rogue, Rolling Rock, et al)
	I've got a magnum that used to contain Rodenbach, and I wish to reuse and
relabel it for a special occasion. But it has a (very nice, but)
painted-on label. I'm not inclined to soak it in turpentine. And using
furniture stripper seems more trouble than it's worth, assuming that it
doesn't etch the glass and remain on depost.
	Private Email OK, but others may want to know this one as well.
	TIA.
- -- 
"If a man is not a liberal at eighteen, he has no heart. If he is not a
conservative by the time he is thirty, he has no mind."  - Winston
Churchill


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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:36:33 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: beer bingeing

>From the Healthgate homepage:

October 8, 1997 
Higher risk of death for beer binge drinkers 

(97/10/8) HealthGate (MALDEN) -- Men who drink more than six
bottles of beer at one sitting are much more likely to die -- from a
heart
attack or a violent incident -- than men who consume up to three bottles
of beer at a time, according to research published in British Medical
Journal. 

Researchers from Finland looked at 1,641 Finnish men, aged 42 to 60,
over an eight-year period. Of the men, 76 drank over six bottles of beer
at a time, and were considered binge drinkers by the study's authors. 

Those bingers were six times as likely to suffer a fatal heart attack
and
were seven times more likely to die from being injured or poisoned,
involved in a violent event, or committing suicide, researchers found. 

Factors such as smoking, unemployment, previous diseases, marital
status, blood pressure, or cholesterol levels did not make a significant
difference in determining why the binge drinkers were more likely to
die.

"The reason that the men who indulged in heavy drinking sessions had
an increased risk of death in our follow-up study might come from the
beer itself, from the pattern of heavy acute intake (binging), or from
other characteristics that are associated with men who prefer to drink
six or more beers at a time," lead author Jussi Kauhanen wrote. 
As a result, health care professionals should examine factors besides
the
total amount of alcohol consumed when determining the effect of
alcohol on a person's health. The way alcohol affects the heart, for
example, may shed light on factors which signal the onset of a fatal
heart
attack -- such as sudden heart rhythm abnormalities, blood clots, and/or
coronary artery blockages. 

"The pattern of beer binging is associated with increased risk of death,
independently of the total average consumption of alcoholic drinks,"
researchers concluded. "The relation is not explained by known
behavioural, psychosocial, or biological risk factors. Death due to
injuries and other external causes is overrepresented among beer
bingers, but a strong association with fatal myocardial infarction
suggests that the pathway may also involve other acute triggers of
severe health events." - Cheryl Alkon

Reference 

Kauhanen, J., et al. "Beer binging and mortality: results from the
Kuopio
ischaemic heart disease risk factor study, a prospective population
based study," British Medical Journal, October 4, 1997; number
7112, volume 315, pages 846-850.

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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:49:54 -0700
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: pumpkin // hazy cloudy beers redux


I'll throw my 2 pence into the ring regarding pumpkin beers.  I bent
to the holiday spirit and brewed a small batch for an upcoming
halloween party.  First, if you haven't done one, they are a pain in
the ass.  They would be a perfect candidate for an extract brew,
except for the annoying fact that the pumpkin must be mashed.  

It's pretty difficult to get much pumpkin flavor.  I would say a
*minimum* is to use 1 lb of pumpkin per 1 gal. of finished wort.
Doubling that wouldn't hurt.  You can see why I only made a small
batch - this will lead to a sparge from hell unless you're prepared.
I used 6-row and a kitchen colander, and had no problems.  The 6-row
wasn't really necessary, but my HB shop guy had some he wanted to get
rid of.  Others here have reported good results using rice hulls and
more typical (5-10 gal.) batch sizes.  You do get a nice orange color,
and it is a big party hit.

I mash mine using the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid).  152F
sacc. rest for at least 90 minutes.  The pumpkin is basically all
starch (it's just a big baked potato), so you want to keep it at
conversion temp. as long as possible.

I got my spicing ratio using the logic that 1 gallon of beer was about
equal to one pumpkin pie, and then just taking the amounts of spice
from a generic pumpkin pie recipe (1 tsp. cinnamon, 1/2 tsp. of nutmeg
and ginger.  I added 5-10 whole cloves.  These are the "per pie"
values.)  My spicing method is to soak them in Everclear for a couple
of weeks, then (coffee) filter and add to 2nd'ary (to taste).

//

I've been having some of the same thoughts as Bill regarding cloudy or
hazy beers.

Recently, I've been buying different commercial brews in order to try
some of the ones I've been reading/hearing about.  The majority of
beers are filtered.  My homebrew is not hazy or cloudy, but it still
is not totally clear in natural form.  I don't filter or fine at all.

I've found from sampling commercial beers that filtered products are:
1) immediately noticable 
2) a "turn-off".  
I just don't like extremely clear beer any longer.  I'm not sure if it
seems more antiseptic to me, or if since I really know the difference
I don't respect brewers taking out possible flavors (yes Virginia,
yeast does have flavor) and other sundry items.  The end result though
is the same; if I were going to "judge" a beer I would mark it down if
it were filtered and sparkling clear.  

//

Here's to homemade apple pie, pumpkin pie, apple cider, and pumpkin
beer.  And don't forget to teach *your* grandchildren.

SM

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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:17:00 EDT
From: chouse4 at fintwr.PeachtreeCityGA.NCR.COM
Subject: FW: How do I figure OG?


A math/science question.
If      2.5 lbs of honey in 3 gallons of Cider = about 1.072
and  2.5 lbs of honey in 1 gallon   of Cider = about 1.132
what was the gravity when I combined them?

I forgot to take a reading after combining them.
I have no more fresh cider or honey to experiment with or take an OG.

It's been a long while since i really needed any of that math stuff.
Maybe i can't figure it 'cause i've run out of calculating digits.  It's   
starting to get cooler in GA, and i'm having to wear shoes.  If the   
school year had run only during the summer, i probably could have learned   
and remembered this.  Nah, probably not.

replies to: Kevin.MacRae at PeachtreeCityGA.NCR.COM

Seriously, thanks for any help.

Kevin MacRae   (Fluffhead)




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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:30:28 +0000
From: Imbecile.kzoo.edu at Imbecile.kzoo.edu
Subject: Johnson controller causes GFCI to trip

Hi Michael,
 
 This might be helpful to others so I'll Cc to the list.

 Your GFCI is made to trip whenever it detects a flow of current to 
ground from either the hot or neutral conductor. It will also trip if 
the neutral is opened.

 Open your controller to see how it's wired. Did you buy it prewired? 
The cord thet leads to the controller must be of the 3-wire variety. 
Only the black (hot) conductor should be connected to the switch 
inside the controller. If it's a good one, the ground will be 
attached to the inside of the controller case though many aren't.

If the controller looks like it is wired correctly try plugging 
something else into it and see if it still trips the GFCI. If it 
does, there is a problem with the controller itself. Return it for 
replacement.

If it works ok and the refrigerator doesn't trip the GFCI when 
plugged directly into the wall, look for a bad or missing ground on 
the refrigerator. It may be that the controller probe or case is 
acting as the ground conductor for the refrigerator. A GFCI 
will provide no protection unless the equipment plugged into it is 
properly grounded. If the GFCI detects current flow through the 
controller probe or case, it will trip.

Incidently, this is a common problem. I got the worst jolt in my life 
from a refrigerator with a bad ground - by just grabbing the door 
handle, barefooted on a concrete floor. Be careful!

Hope this helps!

Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
email fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu

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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:11:53 -0500
From: "Daniel J. Lozynski" <djl at sysdes.com>
Subject: FW: BOSS Competition



                The 6th Annual BOSS Homebrew Competition

 The BOSS 6th Annual Homebrewers Competiton will be at Founders Hill
Brewing Co. 5200 Main Street Downers Grove, Il 60515 PH. 630-963-2739
fax 630-963-2777. The date will be November 15th. Deliver entries
between Nov.1st to the 8th. First two entries $5 each, 3 or more $4
each. 2-12 oz. bottles for each style entry. BJCP rules apply. To Judge
or Steward Call Dick Van Dyke at 1-815-838-7711 or Jamie Wika at
1-708-424-6056

See BJCP site for style guideline forms http://www.bjcp.org/style-guide.
Get entry forms and labels here.
http://www.concentric.net/~jwika/EntryFormsLabels.HTM
BJCP Registered. Make checks payable to Brewers Of South Suburbia. There
will be many prizes, rossettes, and certificates awarded to the winners,
so come on down and have a brew with us and the folks at the brewery if
you can.

Prizes recieved as of 10-8-97:
5 copies of Homebrewing for Dummies by Marty Nachel.
5 copies of Homebrewing-Vol-I by Al Korzonas
$50 and $20 gift certificate, PT Barley Home Brew Supply, Countryside,
Il.
1 year subscribtion to Brew your Own Magazine, Hat, TShirt.
10 bags 3.3lbs. of Northwestern Extract Malt.
Stainless Steel False Bottom, Heartland Homebrewing Supplies, Grayslake.

$25 gift Certificate from Mickey Finns Brewery.
Beer Trivia Game-Weizen TShirt-Trivia Fun Packs from Food For Fun Inc.
Plastic Bottle Tree

- --
                       Brewers of South Suburbia
                    http://www.concentric.net/~jwika
   We are dedicated to the art of crafting and quaffing fine beers,
through the sharing of ideas and experiences, the advocacy of brewing as
a hobby, and the responsible consumption of beverages containing
alcohol.....




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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:40:33 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Malt Extract Tang - not, Punkin' ale

Brewsters,

Aaron Spulock has been told that the tang
 he gets in his extract beers is due to the raw materials. =


It is amazing how rumors started 40 years ago
 in Britain, still persist.  C.J. J. Berry
 ( a publisher who owned Amateur Winemaker =

Publications and who wrote a beer
 brewing book in the late 60s/early 70s )
 commented in one of his books on the difference
 in taste in beers made from malt extract and
 those made by conventional brewing methods =

by the brewers ( all-grain in those days was unheard of).
  He allowed that as all home brew had this tang,
 it must be the malt extract.

I figured it out many (28!) years ago that
 it wasn't due to the malt extract
 ( I might not be brewing if I hadn't) ,
 but was due to the fact that homebrewers
 were pouring boiling wort through the air
 into a strainer to remove the hops
 as all the books at the time directed. =

 When I stopped this practice, =

my extract beers improved remarkably.

We now know this by the name =

Hot Side Absorption (HSA) in these tomes.
 All good extract and all-grain brewers =

chill the wort ( with a copper-coil, water-cooled
 chiller in the boiler or a counter current chiller)
 to below 70F. =


They chill it *before* they pour it through the air.
They can then strain it or they use a small device
 at the bottom of the racking cane (a metal scrubber
 called a Choreboy) to leave the hops in the boiler
 as the chilled wort passes into the fermenter
 through the air. It is of critical importance
 to make sure the wort is cooled before it passes =

through the air or is oxygenated in some way.
  Then, strangely enough,  for British Ale yeast, =

 the cold wort is oxygenated so the yeast can
 have a good fermentation.

If you chill the wort first
 the "malt extract tang" will disappear.
- --------------------------------------------
THP says:

>"Subject: Scientific Pumpkin Brewing

>. Now the scientific
>part. Measure the diameter of the cross section. Measuring around the
fattest
>part of the pumpkin (equator) determine the distance around the
hemisphere.
>Double this to obtain the circumference. The secret of the pumpkin flavo=
r
is
>to divide the circumference by its diameter....  ;<)

To make Pi, I presume.

They always taught us "Pi R square" ,
but after reading HBD,  I found out that
Pi R round, cornbread R square and
spicy Punkin'  Ale R good!.
- ------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:02:44 -0500
From: lordofbrewing at webtv.net (DAN PILLSBURY)
Subject: Steinbier Fragmentation Grenades

To all,
A recent poster suggests checking out streams and rivers for suitable
rocks to be used for a steinbier. I personally wouldn't do this, many
times the water has soaked within the stone and upon heating it turns to
steam and the resultant pressure within the stone causes it to shatter
most unpleasantly.
When I got the hankering to brew a batch  I went down to the local
landscape emporium and purchased 6-7 baseball sized pieces of pink Rocky
Mt. granite, cost was about $0.75. This is a much safer alternative and
pretty darn cheap to boot....

Cheers,
Dan

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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:08:16 -0500
From: Randy Kinsman <kinsman at glinx.com>
Subject: Wort Storage?

I have posted this question on r.c.b. with no response so I thought I'd 
try the next level.
	I have an opportunity to brew on a semi-pro basis at a local home brew 
shop.  The owner has given me a chance to sell wort through his shop on 
a regular basis.  I can set up my system in house and simply brew there 
as needed.  He wants me to be able to leave fresh wort there for storage 
until it is sold.  Basically, he wants wort in stock with me producing 
it as needed.  
	My real question is, how can I store wort after is has been boiled and 
chilled?  Can I keep the product just above the freezing point? If so, 
for how long?  I really want to stay away from chemical preservatives 
because I like the fact that I can make "Clean" beer and I don't want to 
sell a product which I wouldn't want to make for myself.
	 I am looking at building a 1.5-2bbl system and storing the fresh wort 
in either stainless or new food grade plastic.Any help would be greatly 
appreciated.
Please reply to me via e-mail at
kinsman at glinx.com
Thanks for your attention.
Randy Kinsman
Cambridge
Nova Scotia
Canada


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---