HOMEBREW Digest #2580 Thu 11 December 1997

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Brewpot manifold/No hot break (Jim English)
  glycol jackets ("Manuel Munarriz")
  Re: What did I make? ("Robert J. Waddell")
  FG dilema (Richard Johnson)
  Re: AFCHBC Call for Judges (Dion Hollenbeck)
  yeast raising (Mark E. Lubben)
  New BT Column (Louis Bonham)
  One More Sparkler Thingy Comment (KennyEddy)
  Square Coleman (Mike Marshburn)
  More hydrometer calibration stuff ... ("Brian Dixon")
  Belgian Double Bottling (Mike Proffitt)
  sparkler effect, dispense pressure (mwmccaw)
  Maris Otter malt, other sundry items (smurman)
  Re: Boil them grain experts! (Steve Alexander)
  Irish Moss and Yeast (dajohnson)
  Re: Sexist Kitchen Rant (Bryan Fitzhugh)
  Water (Tom Clark)
  thanks:keg o-rings (Mel D Irvin)
  Topping off w/ Bottled H2O (Steve Adams)
  Freezing malt (Richard Seyler)
  Starch and dextrins in beer (George De Piro)
  Bottled Water / Oatmeal Stout Question (Bill Goodman)
  Top 10 (Richard Scholz)
  Instrument for Sampling (Nick Bonfilio)
  Sexist kitchen, Yeast Shocking, Sparge Water Ph (Alpinessj)
  Judgment Day... (Charles Burns)
  Questions! (Jeffrey Rose)
  Elect Hot Liquor Tanks?!? (David A Bradley)
  Re: brewing with a microwave (Lou Heavner)
  Takin' offense ("Raymond Estrella")
  Priming. ("Michael Kowalczyk")

===================================================================== A beer a day... ...ain't nearly enough! NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to homebrew-request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at realbeer.com Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via: Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer E-mail... ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com (send a one-line e-mail message with the word help for instructions.) AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:32:20 -0500 From: Jim English <jimebob at mindspring.com> Subject: Brewpot manifold/No hot break Having recently resolved my brewpot dilemna by acquiring a converted keg for a really good price I am now learning how to use it and have come across a couple of new situations that I would like to run by this august assembly for some feedback. 1. I made a manifold of half-inch copper slotted (2 to 3 cuts per inch) in the shape of a square that hugs the bottom (at least at the corners)of my keg. The threaded SS nipple is about 2 inches above the center-bottom of the keg so I used 90's to drop the manifold down about an inch or so to get as close to the bottom as possible. I did not solder all this together yet for all kinds of obvious reasons. On the first full-volume boil I did I merrily threw my hops in there by the fist-full and was loving life until it was time to drain the kettle. The damn thing acted like what a stuck sparge must be like. I'm still working my way up to all-grain. The kettle would not drain. I assumed the manifold had just gotten clogged with hops leaves. Slosh, slosh, slosh...no go... Now desperate I reach into the wort with my bleachy hand (the horror) and find my manifold has come apart. I don't know if it was the violence of the boil or the enthusiastic stirring of one of the spectator amateur volunteers that "helped" me brew that day that knocked my manifold loose. I ended up removing the manifold completely and pushing a thin rod into the drain and working the hops and wort out of the kettle and into the funnel/filter I used to use. Now to my questions: =20 Will a manifold of this type work in a brewpot?=20 Should I make a "stack" on it above the level of the wort as in plumbing a sink or whatever to facilitate flow? Is it more likely my manifold was loose to start with rather than= that the hops plugged it up and the manifold came loose as a result of my mucking about in there? 2. On my second full-volume batch (a massive porter) I brought 6 gallons of RO filtered water (by an outfit named H2Only, got a big machine in the grocery store, very impressive) to a boil (relax I removed my specialty grains AT 170=B0F)=20 and removed a gallon or twoof boiling soon-to-be wort to a small pot to dissolve the liquid and the dry extract before adding it back in to prevent scorching. Once dissolved I poured it back into the big kettle and went on about my business. NO BREAK. NONE. My brewing buddy (about 20 years experience homebrewing with extracts) and I (considerably less) had never seen anything like it. At no point in the 90 minute boil did it break. The beer is fine, apparently. But I wonder what happened. By the way it was 5.5 lbs of bulk British liquid extract and 2.5 lbs of M&F dry!! Any ideas anybody. JRE Jim English in Duluth (no not Minnesota, Georgia...what you think I'm crazy or sumpin'. It gets cooooold up there.) ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 08:48:06 PST From: "Manuel Munarriz" <manuel_munarriz at hotmail.com> Subject: glycol jackets Hello, I am a student who chosed a project about building a homebrew machine, and i am interested in building a glycol jacket for my fermenter, but i have no idea how to do it. How i have to build the jacket ? It is a conventional baffled jacket? A half pipe jacket ? And how a have to cool the glycol ? How a have to make the glycol circulate into the jacket ? Do I need a compresor or a pump ? Will I have the glycol as a gas or as a liquid ? As you see i need a lot of help, so i would appreciate any. Thanks a lot Manuel Munarriz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:08:21 -0700 From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw at dimensional.com> Subject: Re: What did I make? John Varady writes: > This is a recipe for porter but I fermented 6.25 gallons with Bavarian > Lager yeast and 6.25 with Northwest ESB yeast. The differences between > the two are amazing! I definately cannot call the Bavarian batch a > porter any longer. But what can I call it? Would anyone like to > pigeonhole this into a sytle? It is too young and yeasty to tell what > the final product will be like, but so far it is malty and smooth. John, In the most recent "Zymurgy", Michael Jackson is discussing porter being shipped across the Channel and the North Sea, through the Baltic to Eastern Europe and China. "In all of those regions, the term Porter is to some extent still used, normally to identify a dark, roasty, very strong brew, sometimes made with a top-fermenting ale yeast, but more often with a lager culture." This sounds like a "Swartzbeir" (sp?) to me, and sounds yummy. Let us know how the final product turns out. #%^) RJW I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system. 'Cept for that gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it off the bed at night. Women... --Pat Babcock *** It's never too late to have a happy childhood! *** ********************************************************************* RJW at dimensional.com / Opinions expressed are usually my own but Robert J. Waddell / perhaps shared. Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspeider Brew-Haus Longmont, Colorado ********************************************************************** (4,592 feet higher than Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 13:40:43 -0500 From: Richard Johnson <Ricjohnson at SURRY.NET> Subject: FG dilema I have recently followed the advice of Brew Your Own magazine and brewed a couple of batches using the same base recipe (extract) and changing the specialty grains to see the differences they make. Both times the FG came out 1.024. First batch is kegged and tastes good. Second batch is still in the secondary and reading has not changed for 5 days. I am trying to decide if I should throw some dry yeast in to ferment out or relax blah blah. I also have enough room to add 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of water to the seconday which should also lower the FG. The recipe called for 4lbs Alexander's light LME and 3lbs Laaglander DME with one batch using 1lb of crystal and the other using 1lb of crystal and 5oz of chocolate. I tasted what is in the secondary and it tastes fine as well. What is a homebrewer to do? Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Dec 1997 12:36:10 -0800 From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com> Subject: Re: AFCHBC Call for Judges >> hollen writes: Dion> Registration forms may be requested by Email, USMail, phone or online. Dion> Please fill out the registration form and return it A.S.A.P after Dion> receipt. The online registration form is available on our webpage at: Dion> http://www.brewsoft.com/afchbc/judge.html DUH. Sorry, but I screwed up the URL. It should be; http://www.softbrew.com/afchbc/judge.html Sorry, dion Judge Coordinator 1998 America's Finest City Homebrew Competition Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor http://www/softbrew.com/afchbc - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:27:32 -0500 From: mel at genrad.com (Mark E. Lubben) Subject: yeast raising The recent bunch of postings about yeast reminded me of a couple questions I had. I bought a pound of DME to make yeast starters last spring. I know the Dutch Laaglander(sp) brand of DME can be dextrinous/ less-fermentable so I avoided that. I got the less expensive of the other two they offered, but I recognized the brand name. The first time, I was taking a local (Boston) "ready to pitch" tube of ESB (~1/2tsp solids) and boosting it up to pitch into a ten gallon batch. I made up a quart of my normal strength starter in a 2 quart juice bottle and shook it well a couple of times before and a day after adding the yeast. When I was ready to brew two days later, I tasted the starter and it was just sweet like when I made it! Luckily I had a second ESB tube, which I intended to split and culture, so I divided between carboys and it worked well inspite of underpitching. I had similar results with my next two starters from a swollen pack of Wyeast Bavarian lager (normally reliable for me) and culturing the yeast from a couple of bottles of Hoegarden (sweet at two weeks). I tossed the DME out after the third failure and used part of a kicker of LME to feed the precious babies in my last bottle of wit. Is this just coincidental bad luck, or did I get a pound of "adulterated" DME? Similar experiences with DME other than Dutch? I haven't given the brand to avoid defaming the manufacturer in case it was my fault or the shop that repackaged it in the pound bag. I made dozens of previous starters, so I doubt I heak-stroked or chill-shocked all three or other stupid accidents I might do once. I suspect I will stick to my normal Munton&Fison DME from now on. - --- The suggestions to store yeast under distilled water at room temp. caused a question during a discussion with my daughter. When injecting any significant amount of fluid into the body, medical folks use isotonic solutions to avoid bursting our blood cells or crenating(sp) them into "prunes". I know we don't want glucose since we want the yeast to hibernate, but what about other minerals or alcohol/glycerol? Or do yeast just have robust enough cell membrane transfer that they don't care as much as blood cells that live a chemically pampered life? Biochemists, I am a techie, but keep it below the ionosphere... ;^) Mark Lubben (mel at genrad.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 15:51:42 -0600 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> Subject: New BT Column Greetings HBD: Well, it's finally almost here -- the long-awaited RIMS v. Decoction article (featuring the results of two different "mash-out" experiments) is now in the can and is slated to be published in the Jan-Feb issue of BT. As an offshoot of this project, I'm going to be doing a regular column for BT, which will provide a forum for this kind of comparative experiments, as well as helpful stuff for amateur brewing scientists (cheap labware sources, descriptions of ASBC and similar methods of analysis, QA/QC tips, etc.). Some of the experiments I've got on my list are things like sparge v. no sparge brewing ("does it really give a maltier flavor?"), single v. triple decoctions, first wort hopping, malt mill testing, pressure-cooker pseudo-decoctions, etc. (Maybe we'll even try and see whether botulism spores can actually germinate in non-pressure-canned wort! ;-)) The idea is to try and bring the scientific method and a little data to bear on the kinds of questions we routinely bat around here -- as well as to publish and promote the kind of experiments that HBD readers have been doing for years. Ergo, if you have a particular brewing experiment you're planning -- or if you'd like to do one, or have an idea for one that you think would be of interest -- drop me a note. And no, you don't have to be a PhD biochemist to do these (heck, I was a philosophy major) -- you just have the desire to seek answers and the willingness to collect the data carefully and objectively. (Of course, if you *are* a PhD biochemist with access to a lab, I've got a nice long list of favors to ask . . . .) Last thing -- data points for a future piece -- any amateurs out there who "wet mill" or otherwise steep their grain before milling? If so, lemme know. Louis K. Bonham lkbonham at phoenix.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:50:51 EST From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com> Subject: One More Sparkler Thingy Comment Thought I'd toss in my favorite way (from an old Zymurgy tip) of obtaining a cheap imitation of Real Ale Head (and it works with bottled beer as well): take a syringe (sans needle!), draw up a few cc's of beer from the glass, and shoot the sharp stream violently back into the beer. Kicks up a beautiful head and whips the beer itself into a fluffy mousselike texture. As others have stated, the difference between conventionally-poured beer versus whipped ale is remarkable. Pour two glasses of the same beer and try it on one, then taste side by side. You'll see the differences instantly. ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy > George De Piro > > (Nyack, NY; on a galactic scale, I practically occupy the same space > as Jeff Renner) Bet I occupy practically the same space as *both* y'all! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 17:33:06 -0400 From: Mike Marshburn <mike48 at erols.com> Subject: Square Coleman Hello Brewers I have ordered a square 10gal coleman cooler from the co-op and was wondering if anyone has one for a mash tun? Will it stand up to mash temps without warping? It's 11" square and about 23-25" tall and was $22 plus delivery. I have a 5gal igloo now with about 6ft of 3/8" copper spiral wound, drilled 1/32 every 3/8" for a manifold that I will use in the coleman. Watch out barley wine, here I come!! Mike M Va Beach, Va////mike48 at erols.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:30:19 -0800 From: "Brian Dixon" <mutex at proaxis.com> Subject: More hydrometer calibration stuff ... Question: I'd like to use the CRC Handbook of Chemistry to assist with calibrating my hydrometer ... since lately there's been some discretion between mine and my brother's. On p.D-275 of the '83-'84 edition, is a table that shows specific gravity versus lbs of solute dissolved per gallon (or grams dissolved per liter). I guess you just dump the required weight of sugar into a container that's calibrated in gallons (or liters), then add and mix water to get to exactly 1 gallon (liter), right? That way, you have the required gallon (liter) of solution with the required weight of solute (invert sugar). My question has to do with what the handbook calls "sugar". The top of the page says (at T=20C) to use "invert sugar" where "invert sugar" is an "equimolar mixture of fructose and glucose obtained by hydrolyzing sucrose." Now I would guess that table sugar (sucrose, eh?) would be naturally hydrolized just by sitting around in my Oregon atmosphere. Shouldn't it be accurate enough to just use the required weight of the table sugar as-is? Or is this "invert sugar" described in the handbook something else? Signed, "User of inaccurate hydrometers" (Brian Dixon) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:21:41 -0500 From: Mike Proffitt <mproffit at infinet.com> Subject: Belgian Double Bottling I just put a batch of a Belgian Double (og 1.068, fg 1.011) into a keg so that I can bottle it using a counter pressure bottle filler. My understanding is that this is a beer that can definitely benefit from aging. Since I plan on aging the beer, would I be better off adding .75 cup corn sugar to prime it, or should I just force carbonate with CO2 gas? Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:29:45 -0600 (CST) From: mwmccaw at ix.netcom.com Subject: sparkler effect, dispense pressure It's amazing how fast the collective memory turns over! About 18 months ago, this same subject was dissected thoroughly in these very pages, and an amazingly simple technique to duplicate the effect of a sparkler was talked about at some length. I've been using it ever since, when I want that "Pub Head", and have never been disappointed. Here it is: 1) Get yourself a ten cc syringe, no needle necessary or wanted. An "oral" syringe will work just dandy, and may be easier to come by in some parts of the country. 2) Draw your beer normally, minimizing splashing, etc. - LEAVE A GOOD THIRD OF THE GLASS EMPTY!! 3) Suck 10 cc into the syringe, and force it out rapidly into the beer. 4) Watch in amazement as the huge whipped-cream consistency head develops. That's it! works anywhere, wins bar bets, amazes friends, and is cheap! On to dispense pressure. For several years, I have been keeping all my kegs at 8 pounds of dispense pressure. I use a manifold with check valves for each line. As long as the kegs are not violently moved or shaken, I have had Kolsch at 31/2 volumes stay fully carbonated for the five or six months it took to finish off the keg. I keep all my kegs in a chest freezer at 48 deg. F. I had intended to build my own manifold with a separate pressure regulator (11 bucks apiece from C&H Sales - no affiliation) for each line, but found that that effort was completely unnecessary. Anybody have a suggestion for what to do with my eight gas regulators? Just my data point, YMMV. Brew on, Mike McCaw in Seattle mwmccaw at ix.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:44:05 -0800 From: smurman at best.com Subject: Maris Otter malt, other sundry items Damn, I don't even use a hydrometer to determine if my ferment is over. Do I ever feel like a lazy slob. Anyway, a while back there was a discussion of Maris Otter malt. The gist of it was, the Maris Otter was giving stuck sparges and in general was a real PITA (I think it might have been Michael Dowd who brought it up). At the time, this was poo-poo'd, and many folks came forward to defend the Otter. I recently did 3 batches with the Hugh Baird Maris Otter malt, and I can relate that if the crush is not done carefully, this malt is indeed prone to the "sparge from hell". My Phils Phloating Bottom wouldn't handle it, and I had to switch to my old Zapap, with it's larger hole size. I think the main problem is that this malt is extremely soft. I've never come across anything this soft. It seemed like it would make tasty brew (mmm, soft beer), and indeed it seems to, but it also makes quite a bit of flour and other small particles when it's ground. This has caused me all sorts of problems, and I don't intend to continue using the Otter. Bear in mind though, I usually use pils malts, so pale ale malt practices are not my forte. // Thanks for all the feedback on the recipe posting. Yes, I plan to continue for a while, as I get hungry. No, I won't be posting a recipe for botulism. // There have been a few additions to my web pages that some might find useful, including a graph of A.J.'s oxygen saturation data, the components of the most common brands of yeast nutrient (i.e., what the hell is this white stuff?), and a table of stopper sizes. http://www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy SM (2064 miles from Jeff Renner, neglecting space-time curvature) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 02:57:11 -0500 From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Boil them grain experts! Pat Babcock writes ... >To all those (and there were many! Ah! The wealth of the HBD!) who >responded to my quandary regarding decoctions vs steeping: a hearty >thanks! The prevailing answer provided is quite correct, and the >first occurrence of it in my mailbox resulted in a resounding >forehead slap: Of course! The pH of the water is key! ... >The grain in a decoction mash adjusts the pH to our typical ~5.0. The >water in a steep would be much closer to 7.0. Tannin extraction is >most allied to pH (*BIG* forehead slap there. What have I been >reading for the last several years right here in the ol 'Gest???). >Therefor, tannins would be more readily extracted by the steep than >the decoct. Tho' it doesn't directly address the subject of steeped grains may I suggest you check out my upcoming BT article on phenols (apologies for the shameless plug). The specialty malts which are typically steeped have more (due to high kilning) degraded phenolic compounds, which may be more easily released. Also note that these malts lack the enzymes which can cause phenols to polymerize, oxidize and so combine with protein and remain in the break. Add to this that in a steep the pH is suboptimal, the water:grain ratio may be very high increasing phenolic extraction, and the amount of protein available for protein-tannin complexing (break formation) is limited and you have a formula for potential problems. The opposite would be true of a decoction boil. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 08:32:57 -0500 From: dajohnson at mail.biosis.org Subject: Irish Moss and Yeast Hi all, i have 2 questions to address to anyone who cares to respond: 1) I've been seeing some posts recently talking about rehydrating Irish Moss. I've never done this and my results have been just fine, but still i'm curious. What are the reasons for doing this? 2) I have a Strong Scotch Ale in the secondary. It should be fairly high in alcohol (started out in the 1.090 range). It has been in the secondary (following a one week primary) for almost 3 weeks at about 40 degrees. Having read many of the recent posts about pitching more yeast for bottling really big beers, would i NEED to do that for this batch? If so, how should it be done? Thanks a bunch, dan johnson Philly, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:24:10 -0600 (CST) From: Bryan Fitzhugh <fitzhugh at students.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Sexist Kitchen Rant > Peeve Time. I find the repeated references to "her kitchen" to be > offensive BS. I generally cook MORE than my wife and usually better. I > know that there are tons of other men and women that read the HBD who have > crossover brewing/culinary interests and talents. If some of you men don't > cook and that job falls on your wife's shoulders, realize that you are not > the rule. Join the modern world and can the "her kitchen" crap. > > > Lorne /* My apologies for the lack of homebrewing content, but it seems that in this case the defense of the integrity of the HBD takes precedence. Was going to send this privately but the thought that others might be falsely persuaded left me uneasy. */ Lorne, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. I could understand where you might take offense if people were out there saying that only women belong in the kitchen and should be barefoot and pregnant, but that's not the case at all. What for those out there like myself whose wife happens to be possessive over the kitchen and/or do most of the cooking? Is it wrong for me to refer to it as 'her kitchen' when discussing my case (where she, herself, refers to it as such and our own personal micro-society has no problem with said naming convention)? Indeed, it *is* her kitchen, for all intents and purposes. I just don't see why I should have to censor my life in order to 'protect' those with a high propensity to defend their interpretation of political correctness. Just because you're reading much more into someone's words doesn't make them improper (refer to your inference that somehow by using the words 'her kitchen' it follows that one believes women cooking to be the rule)... -Bryan <ranting away in my study...> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:42:56 -0500 From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com> Subject: Water Concerning the addition of "topping off" water.. Here is something I have tried doing recently.... Near the end of the boil , the amount of wort has decreased significantly due to evaporation. So, by boiling a quantity of additional water (separate from the wort) and adding it to the wort the boiling temperature is maintained. I wait 'til near the end of the hour to avoid a boilover. - ONCE IS ENOUGH... My brew pot is stainless steel and has a capacity of 24 quarts so, I can end up with about 4 out of 5 gallons of wort in the brew pot at the end of the boil. Since I use use a copper immersion cooling coil, this extra amount of hot wort still only requires about 15 minutes to cool. This reduces the potential for problems created by adding questionable cold water to the wort by reducing the amount of additional cold water required. However, I am rather new to this hobby... I haven't seen any of the "experts" mention using this technique...Is this a poor practice? E-mail OK Thanks Tom Clark Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:24:32 -0500 From: melathome at juno.com (Mel D Irvin) Subject: thanks:keg o-rings Thanks for all the replys for removing the o-rings off my coke kegs. Cutting them with an exacto knife was the easiest since they are going to be replaced anyways. Mel Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 11:35:15 est From: paa3765 at dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams) Subject: Topping off w/ Bottled H2O I've gotten away with topping off with charcoal-filtered water many times with no ill results; I think quite a bit of the bottled water is filtered that way, too. In fact, I thought that all bottled water here in PA had to be filtered, whether it's billed as spring water or not. I believe tap water has to have less than 1 part coliform per billion. If you filter the chlorine out, then the water should be OK given a fast-starting, vigorous fermentation. This is more of an issue for stove top brewers who are topping off with 2-3 gallons sometimes. This shouldn't be too much of an issue for all grain brewers. I try not to top off that stuff at all unless I have to. Strictly speaking, boiling is the right way, but I have to wonder which ends up with more undesirable microbes, the filtered water or the water that the average guy boils and chills at home? SA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:46:53 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Seyler <tad at bimcore.emory.edu> Subject: Freezing malt I am sure this is a question that some one from more northern climes can answer. I have a bag of M&F pale ale malt that contained a few bugs. I quarantined the malt into two sealed 5 gal. buckets and have stored it for the last monthh or so in a storage closet outside. The weather has been cold enough to freeze the malt a number of times over the time it has been stored there. It has remained dry and not been exposed to plaid. My question is: Will this malt mash properly, now that it has been frozen? I got the malt free (because it was tainted) but would hate to lose it, nonetheless. Before freezing, it made a delicious dry bug stout. IMMR? Thanks! - --Tad in Athens, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:35:20 -0800 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: Starch and dextrins in beer Hi all, A few issues ago (probably weeks ago by the time this gets published) Al questioned my statement that starchy beer will lead to infections by supporting bacterial growth. He pointed out that there are other compounds in the wort that aren't fermentable by brewers yeast, but that are probably fermentable by some other bugs (i.e., dextrins). Hmmm, I thought, that makes some sense. Why is it that people say that starch can lead to infections, but nobody worries about their dextrinous beers? I don't know! Darn good question! Can it be that dextrinous beers are more susceptible to infection than drier beers? Perhaps starchy beer is more susceptible to infection because of the types of bugs that starch will support? Maybe the sheer quantity of starch that can found in a poorly made beer is the key? Are any microbiologists out there that can shed some light on this? Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY; a quaint town on the western shore of the mighty Hudson river, about 18 miles upstream of New York City) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 17:22:52 +0000 From: Bill Goodman <goodman at apwk01g1.nws.noaa.gov> Subject: Bottled Water / Oatmeal Stout Question In HBD 2577, Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> wrote: > To provide one datapoint, one of my first batches received a infection > (likely wild yeast, since fermentation also behaved funny by > continuing much longer than it should have) that eventually made the > beer undrinkable due to an increasingly strong band-aid phenolic aroma > and flavor. This batch was brewed using a concentrated boil, topped > off by unboiled bottled water (I don't remember if it was spring > water, but I believe it was). Since everything else in my brewing > procedure seemed to be up to par in terms of sanitation, I believe the > probability is that this infection came from the 3 gallons or so of > unboiled water in the beer. I had the same problem with my first homebrew attempt a month ago. I used unboiled bottled water for the entire batch and ended up with a phenolic-tasting batch. Wonder if this could also have come from inadequately rinsing chlorine bleach sanitizing solution from my fermenter and other equipment? In any case, I got wise for my second homebrew attempt by boiling all water and using Iodophor to sanitize instead of chlorine bleach. Now on to a question about my second attempt last week, an oatmeal stout. For a 5-gallon batch, I steeped 0.5 lb. steel cut oats (i.e., not pre-gelatinized like rolled oats) with 1 lb. of other specialty grains (crystal, chocolate, roasted) at about 160 degrees F for 45 minutes before combining with other malt extracts. Was this the correct way to handle steel cut oats? My homebrew supplier says that sounds OK, but I read some postings to the rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup, in response to someone else's questions about oatmeal stouts, that say you must cook steel cut oats first to pre-gelatinize, and then mash. I'm confused...which is correct? How will my brew turn out? - -- Bill Goodman Olney, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:24:45 -0500 From: Richard Scholz <rscholz at ml.com> Subject: Top 10 Brewers, Here's a little Table from The "Finacial Times Mon Dec 8 1997" Top 10 Global Brewers, 1996 MILLION COMPANY COUNTRY HECTOLITERS - ------------------------------------------------------------- Anheuser-Busch US 110.7 Heineken NETHERLANDS 70.6 Miller Brewing Co. US 52.8 South African Breweries SOUTH AFRICA 38.8 Companhia Cervejaria Brahma BRAZIL 38.3 InterBrew BELGIUM 34.0 Carlsberg DENMARK 32.3 Kirin Breweries JAPAN 32.2 Foster's Brewing Group AUSTRALIA 27.3 Coor's Brewing Co. US 27.2 - ------------------------------------------------------------- Just thought I'd pass this along, so that all you advanced brewers could gauge how much you'll have to ramp up production to break into the TOP 10. 8^) - -- Later, Richard L Scholz Merrill_Lynch,_Pierce,_Fenner_&_Smith_Inc. \\\|/// phone #(212)449-8186, ____________________o000_(.) (.)_000o rscholz at ml.com U Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 9:56:23 PST From: Nick Bonfilio <nicholas at rattler.Remedy.COM> Subject: Instrument for Sampling I am looking for an instrument which can be used to take samples of beer from a fermenter (6.5 gallon glass carboy) for hydrometer readings. I would like to get it as a gift for a friend. If you have used such an instrument and you like it, please let me know what it is and maybe where I can get it. Thanks in advance. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:33:34 EST From: Alpinessj <Alpinessj at aol.com> Subject: Sexist kitchen, Yeast Shocking, Sparge Water Ph Sexist Kitchen I cook just as much as my wife does, but I was thrown out of "her kitchen" for brewing after the first batch. Hell, its not just "her kitchen", its "her whole house". I just pay the bills and live there - and make big messes, if you ask her :-) Yeast Shocking Coming in on the yeast thread, I get the general consenses that "warm to cold" shocking is bad. My question is, How fast is too fast to cool down the yeast is you harvest it from an ale (~70 degeess F) and you want to store it in the 'fridge for a few weeks? Sparge water Ph I my continuing quest to increase my extraction efficiency, someone suggested lowering the Ph of my sparge water might help. Currently I do not treat my sparge water with anything. Ph out of the tap is ~7.0. Will lowering the Ph help efficiency or just prevent extracting tannins? If it will help, what should the Ph be and what chemical(s) should I use to lower it? Merry Brewing, Scott Jackson, The Jackson Backyard Brewery (since the 2nd batch) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 97 11:38 PST From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Judgment Day... It was a dark and dreary night. No sleep. Stomach tied up in knots for 3 days. Can't digest any food, nervous as all get out. Got out of bed at 4:00, tried to eat, couldn't keep it in. The rain was pattering on the windows, thrumming on the skylights, lightening and thunder shaking the house and wind whistling in the trees just outside. What an auspicious way to begin Judgment Day. I wasn't the only one with sleeping problems. Brian S was up at 3:00, trying to cram more information into his head, Beth woke about that early too, with nightmares about being stuck in a cage until she answered all the questions. If you haven't guessed by now, this is a short report on taking the Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) exam. Four of us made the journey to Stockton on Saturday December 6. We had to answer 10 essay questions and judge 4 beers all within a 3 hour time limit. I never had 3 hours go by so fast before in my life. And when it was over, on the drive back we all commented about how emotionally deflated we felt. But by the time we got home, we were all back in good spirits and insulting each other as usual (I am NOT an old fart Brian). Well, we had all studied hard for about 2 months, slacked off for a month or so and then crammed like crazy for the week before the test. It was exhausting because we all have regular full time jobs and significant others and families. But I think I can speak for all of us when I say it was worth it. We all know more about beer today in very positive ways. We know what styles are supposed to taste like, what kinds of ingredients it takes to make them taste that way, the processes and why we follow them and best of all, how to avoid problems. A very hearty and heartfelt thank you to Dave Sapsis and Dave Brattstrom for your hosting some of our study sessions. I learned more from these two about filling out an evaluation form in 1 night than in all other studies. I will say right here and now if anyone is interested in going through this process for the next exam cycle, I'll be more than happy to help out. Those weekly drunks were great! Charley (relaxed once again) in N.Cal Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Dec 97 14:47:48 -0500 From: Jeffrey Rose <jeffrey_rose at eri.eisai.com> Subject: Questions! I'm new to the digest so please bear with me. I don't know if any of these topics has recently been discussed. 1. I'm thinking of shelling out the $$$ for a stainless steel mash/lautering tun. What is the best way to stabilize temperatures during mashing steps? Is there a good way to insulate these things? (Keep in mind I live in New England and have to brew in my garage) 2. I own a Foxx counter-pressure bottle filler that I haven't had much luck with. Pat Babcock over on AOL gave me a few pointers. Any experience with these things? 3. What exactly is a "hop-back" and what are the advantages of this gadjet over dry-hopping? 4. I usually don't worry too much about hop sludge/trub in my primary and the beers come out tasting fine. What are the advantages of minimizing or getting rid of this stuff before pitching yeast? 5. the "beer stone"...does anyone have one of these? I picked one up a little while ago but haven't gotten around to trying it. Do they work? Why would I use this to force carbonate a Corny keg when the old way is pretty effective? Would they be useful to lightly carbonate beer in growlers (even though the directions say never to do this!)? 6. I've never been able to produce a "nutty" flavor in one of my brown ales or porters. Does toasting grain accomplish this? 7. My favorite pale ale is Whitbread. Does anyone have a clone recipe that closely approximates this? 8. I just tried an Orval Trappist ale and found it to smell like a men's urinal at a seedy gas station. Was this beer spoiled or do true connoisseurs like Michael Jackson actually fancy that urinal-fresh flavor? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 14:49:38 -0500 From: David A Bradley <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM> Subject: Elect Hot Liquor Tanks?!? I'm looking for an appropriate 25+ gallon vessel to use as a hot liquor tank, to be fired via electricity. I'm all set to add element + controller to something, but I've not found any good vessel. I strongly doubt the structural integrity of any larger polyethylene (aka the bucket material) at temps as high as 180F. Other plastics (polypropylene for example) are just too expensive. Anyone have any good suggestions? Here's my latest thought: an electric water heater. You can buy a 30gal "Low Boy" unit, a short and fat style which might fit atop a stand and still fit in my house, for $150. My question: anyone done this, and can you take the top off of one for cleaning/demineralizing? Lime build-up and ease of water treatment are my only big concerns right now. And the ca$h. Anyone tried this? Thanks, and brew-on! Dave in Indy Home of the 3-B Brewery, (v.) Ltd. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:08:39 -0600 From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner) Subject: Re: brewing with a microwave From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com at smtp [snip] Just a minor word of warning guys ... nothing wrong with boiling in a microwave, as far as I know because I haven't tried it. Francois is looking for a way of doing a full boil, e.g. 30 minutes to 2 hours or so, while Lou is talking about a short boil for starters. Francois is probably ok, but watch out Lou! 2 things are necessary for sterilizing via boiling, a) temperature (you're ok here), and b) time (oops!). It takes between 10 and 15 full minutes to sterilize by boiling, hence the usual requirement to do a 15 minute boil when preparing starters. [snip] Brian is right to be concerned here. Without trying to reignite the dreaded "B" thread, sterilization requires both time and temp. My description was not exactly an accurate portrayal. The microwave timer is set for 2 or 3 minutes once boiling commences. However, the elapsed time is much longer than that. Boiling tends to cause foaming out of the jar unless I pay close attention and open the microwave door each time the foam begins to rise. The timer stops, but the starter wort remains at or near boiling even with the microwave off. Once foaming subsides, I restart the microwave. Total elapsed time is well over 10 minutes, probably closer to 20. When the starter is sufficiently boiled, the canning lid ring is placed on and tightened down. The starter wort is not quick cooled. It stays hot enough to maintain a pasteurizing affect for another 30 minutes or so. I've considered going to a boiling waterbath for my starters. Watching the thing in the microwave oven can be a PITA. But getting up to boiling is soooo much faster. And old habits die hard. Maybe I've been lucky, but I haven't had an infected starter as best I can tell. And I oxygenate by swirling it in air. Maybe I could nominate my better half for brewer's assistant of the year for keeping such a sanitary kitchen! Lou - Fermenting and formenting about 1330 miles southwest of Jeff R, sort of in between Dave D and Ken S. And with winter coming on, looking for opportunities farther south!! Brrrrrrrr Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 97 23:54:03 UT From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at classic.msn.com> Subject: Takin' offense Hello to all, Wow, Lorne is quite the sensitive guy. >I find the repeated references to "her kitchen" to be >offensive BS. I generally cook MORE than my wife and usually better. >If some of you men don't cook and that job falls on your wife's shoulders, >realize that you are not the rule. Join the modern world and can the >"her kitchen" crap. Thank goodness you do not find Dave and Al's polite feuding to be offensive, or prolonged botulism discussion, or beginner questions. Why, you might tell us all to cut the crap. I cook as much or more as my wife. But I have what she calls "his" brewroom, so that I will not destroy (mess up) "her" kitchen. The closet is in our bedroom, but it is her closet. We have a 4-door car, and a truck. Guess which is "her" car? We are very proud that you are a modern guy, and do not mean for you to take offense at our writings. And we promise not to tell you what can do, and what you have "to can". Hit the PgDn key if something bothers you, and I promise to do the same. Ray Estrella Cottage Grove, MN ray-estrella at msn.com ******** Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew. ******** hold it.....Lorne, relax. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:09:55 -0800 From: "Michael Kowalczyk" <mikekowal at megsinet.net> Subject: Priming. Bummage. I cracked my Oatmeal Porter after 7 days and it's as flat as my gradeschool sweetheart. I checked my notes, and the last wimpy headed beer was an oatmeal stout I brewed about a year ago. Aha! Oatmeal has something to do with it. Probably not. Maybe its the temp of my brewery? Maybe it's the fact I brewed a lighter OG (1.050 v.s. 1.060 of the last 10 beers) beer than I'm used to. The real probable cause it that I've brewed the last 10 beers so well that the beer gods conspired and said "Mike needs to have a suck beer once in a while". Whats the deal? Oatmeal Porter 1 lb quaker oats regular oatmeal 1 lb crushed grains, simmered in 2 gallons water for 20 minutes, then added to the mash. Mashed as usual (130 deg 15 min, 154 deg 90 min). O.G. - 1.052 F.G - 1.014 Yeast 1968 ESB yeast (never has a problem priming) 1.25 Cups Malt extract at priming (used this amount in the last 7 beers - all with terriffic carbonation) Fermented at 66 deg for 34 days (primary and secondary). Conditioning at 64 deg. For 7 days so far. FLAT. Questions. - Does oatmeal effect conditioning? - Does lower OG effect priming rates? (probably not) - Did I wait too long to bottle this high flocculant yeast? (again, probably not). - Is the condtioning temp too low? (Last time I movingthe Oat Stout to a higher temp room - did squat). Any insight would help. It tastes fantastic. Would hate to blow this one. - Mike from Chicago. NB=4 - IQ=40 Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 12/11/97, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96