---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Results. PALE ALES "Hoppiest Show on Earth" Competition! (Small Change)
  Fermentation Pressure (Joe Stone)
  Phytic Acid/Whirlpool Articles (ajdel)
  re: Carboy Spigots (Sean Mick)
  Air pump filters (Edward J. Basgall)
  marris otter defense (SClaus4688)
  Humor (Chris Cooper)
  BJCP Test Preparation (Charles Burns)
  Wine Making, Plastic Fermenters (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Maris Otter malt..Stuck Sparge (Jim Wallace)
  Compost, Blowoff, and east vs. west. (GuyG4)
  Mash efficiency (Jason Henning)
  Re: Topping off/Adding water during the boil (Attila Thuroczy)
  Netscape 3.0 use (kathy)
  War of the Worts email address (Alan Folsom)
  Undercarbonated batch ("Spies, James")
  Glass Airlocks (Jim Anderson)
  Wassail recipe request (Tom Williams)
  RE:Nitrogen and stout taps (Kit Anderson)
  Motorizing Corona Mills/Converted Keg Fermenters (Bill_Rehm)
  Heavy Metal brew (Mike Spinelli)
  Re: A-B attacks (Graham Barron)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:24:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Small Change <schd at pluto.njcc.com>
Subject: Results. PALE ALES "Hoppiest Show on Earth" Competition!

  PALE ALES "Le Premier Spectacle de Houblon du Monde" held Dec. 7, 1997.
Six people took the AHA/BJCP TEST on Dec. 6. A total of 340 entrants
marked our first AHA/BJCP competition, total retail cost ofthe prizes
exceeded $5000. The Award Ceremony, Best of Show panel and Bitterest Beer
(which was won by Dave Albert) Face Contest attracted more than 250 people
on Dec. 8th in Princeton.

  Our congratulations to all the winners. Their prizes and medal
associated with the prize, and individual score sheets can be arranged to
be picked at Princeton Homebrew or they can be mailed to the winners,
please promptly reply tothis message (schd at pluto.njcc.com) or write to
PALE ALES, 82 Nassau St., #20, Princeton, NJ 08542. Sorry, shipping costs
of the prizes are the responsibility of the winners. 

  We have already started preparations for our competition next year -
which will be even bigger. We wish to thank all involved. Some categories
were collapsed and best of category was chosen.  Further information
concerning the winners of individual subcategories will be shown our web
page http://www.angelfire.com/biz/paleales.
 
THE WINNERS

Best of Show - Mike Jarrett, Barley Wine, Awarded Groen S.S.  Steam
Jacketed Kettle, donated by Highpoint Brewing Company. 

Second Place Best of Show - Ed Basgall, Cranapple Cider, Awarded "A
Textbook Of Brewing" by Jean De Clerk, donated by Siebel Institute. 

Third Place Best of Show - Mike Jarrett, English Mild Ale, Awarded a
Valley Mill Grain Mill, donated by Valley Mill. 

Note: All Category Winners receive a One Year subscription to Beer Notes.

1	Barley Wine
	1st - Mike Jarrett, 55lb Pale Malt from Crisp Malting Co.
	2nd - Marc Sedam, One year membership to A.H.A.
	3rd - Hoyt Holley, Triumph Brewing Company Dinner for 2

2    Belgian and French Ale
	1st - Bob Hall, Case of Duvel from Vanberg & DeWulf
	2nd - Bob Hall, One year membership to A.H.A.
	3rd - Hoyt Holley, One 5 gallon Carboy

3	Belgian Gueuze and Lambic
	Collapsed

4	Mild and Brown Ale
	1st - Mike Jarrett, Case Edme Marris Otter Extract 
	2nd - Tom Smeraldi, 55lb Bag Pale Malt from Crisp        
	3rd - tie Randy Smith/Billy Klinger L.D. Carlson Gift
		Cert.  at  Princeton Homebrew 

5	English Style Pale Ale
	1st - David Levesque, Gift Cert.  at  Princeton Homebrew 
	2nd - Rich Koch, 12 Samuel Smith Nonik glass, Merchant du Vin
	3rd - Ted Hull, FERMENTAP Fermatap

6	American Style Ale
	1st - Al Boccardo, Hop Plug variety from Morris Hanbury
	2nd - John Lyga, 6 Pint glasses from Dock Street
	3rd - tie Brian Rezac, Ale Street News 2 yr. subscription
	t-shirt/Craig Fairchild,The Beverage Machine Gift Cert.  at 
		Princeton Homebrew
 
7	English Bitter
	1st - George DePiro, 12 Fuller's Nonik Pint glasses from PNA
	2nd - Paul Krupa, Gift Certificate from Cherry Hill Homebrew
	3rd - Andrew Koontz, Highlander Homebrew Best Bitter Kit

8	Scottish Ale
	1st - Michael Fenessy,  One year Subscription to AHA, 2 T-
		shirts from Alan Moen
	2nd - Dave Bush, Brew Magazine One-Year Subscription, 
		RJ Grape Ballcap T-shirt
	3rd - Rich Koch, South Jersey Fermentors case Liter Growlers

9	Porter
	1st - Shawn Bosch, Gift Cert. from Homebrew Unlimited
	2nd - Ron Thomas, 1 yr. Sub. from Brewing Techniques Magazine
	3rd - Will Fields, Two T-Shirts from Independence Brewing

10	English and Scottish Strong Ale
	1st - Roland Pena, S.S. Converted Keg from The Beer Cellar
	2nd - Paul Karasiewicz, Samuel Smith Sweater and Towels from
		Merchant du Vin
	3rd - Lester Lewis, 2 year subscription from Malt Advocate

11	Stout
	1st - Donald Rice, case Coopers Stout Extract from 
		Cascadia Importers
	2nd - Curt Blanchard, Hop Pellet Variety from Hop Union
	3rd - Kennedy & Rosenfield, South Jersey Fermentors case
		Liter Growlers 

12	Bock
	1st - Jim Wagner, 6 Celebrator glasses from Merchant du Vin
	2nd - Chuck DiSanto, 6 Fuller's Nonik Pint glasses from PNA 
	3rd - Tim Toscano, 2 year subscription to Malt Advocate

13	German Dark Lager
	1st -Dean Fikar, Oktoberfest CD-ROM, Shirt from 
		Wild Goose Brewing
	2nd - Jeffrey North, 6 Fuller's Nonik Pint glasses from PNA
	3rd - Rich Koch, Climax 50lb bag DWC Pale

14	German Light Lager
	Collapsed

15	Classic Pilsner
	1st - William Bonorden, 55lb DWC Pilsen from Flying Fish
	2nd - George Fix, Hop Pellet Variety from Hop Union, RJ Grape
		Sweatshirt
	3rd - Bob Halk, Variety Pack from Weyerbacher Brewing Co.

16	American Lager
	1st - Paul Thompson, Kaiserdom Pils glasses from Merchant du
		Vin/Two Button-up Shirts from Wild Goose
	2nd - Shawn Bosch, Sam Adams Pullover from Boston Brewing Co.
	3rd - Jack Cheeseman, Market Guide & T-shirt from Brewing
		Techniques Magazine

17	Vienna/Marzen/Oktoberfest
	1st - Dean Fikar, 5, one liter Paulaner Munchen mugs from PNA
	2nd - Roger Whyman, 12 Pint glasses from Independence Brewing
	3rd - George DePiro, Gift Cert. from Brewers Apprentice

18	German Style Ale
	1st - Dave Bush, Gift Certificate for Princeton Homebrew
	2nd - Dean Fikar, "Analysis Brewing Techniques" from AHA
	3rd - John Lyga, 6 Pint glasses from Independence Brewing

19	German Style Wheat Beer
	1st - Bob Halk, 6, Half Liter Paulaner Wheat Glass from PNA
	2nd - Roland Pena, "Analysis Brewing Techniques" from AHA
	3rd - Al Boccardo, One Corny Keg from C & C Distributing Co

20	Smoked Beer
	1st - Lester Lewis, Gift Cert. for Homebrew Seminar from
		American Brewer's Guild
	2nd - William Bonorden, Vinotheque variety pack
	3rd - Will Fields, Knight Dreams Gift Cert.

21	Fruit and Vegetable Beer
	1st - Brian DeLorenzo, Gift Certificate from Salty Dog Gifts
	2nd - Paul Stackelberg, Beer Maps from Lone Mountain Design &
		(6) Variety of Liquid Yeast from Wyeast
	3rd - John Signorin, 6 Pint glasses from Independence Brewing

22	Herb and Spice Beer
	1st - Mark and Sue Thompson, Dinner for Two at the
		Alchemist & Barrister
	2nd - George John, Case Winter Warmer, Independence Brewing
	3rd - Bob Wayersberg, Hop Plug Variety from Morris Hanbury

23	Specialty Beer
	1st - David Houseman, Two Corny Kegs from C & C Distributing 
	2nd - Getzel and Scorazzo, T-shirts and Gift cert. from
		Double Springs Homebrew Supply
	3rd - Steve & Donna Ashton, One Corny Kegs from C & C
		Distributing Co

24	California Common Beer
	Collapsed

25	Traditional Mead and Braggot
	1st - Doug Hood, Gift Certificate from Crosby and Baker
	2nd - Doug Hood, (6) Variety of Liquid Yeast from Wyeast
	3rd - Steve & Donna Ashton, Climax 25lb bag DWC Pale

26	Fruit and Vegetable Mead
	Collapsed

27	Herb and Spice Mead
	Collapsed

28	Cider
	1st - Ed Basgall, 2 CWE Cider Kits, 10lb Marris Otter Malt
		from Zymotic Importers
	2nd - William Drach, Gift Certificate for 5 Gallons Cider
		from Terhune Orchard
	3rd - Ed Basgall, Wyeast t-shirt

40	White Wine
	1st - Jim McHale, Cuvee Vendange Wine Kit from Vinotheque USA
	2nd - Arturo Ongaro, Vino Del Vita wine kit from Spagnols
		Wine Beermaking Supply
	3rd - Margaret Steinbugler, RJ Grape Prod. Merlot Wine Kit

41	Red Wine
	Collapsed

Door Prizes

BrewCo - A BrewCap System, incl. hose brush
BrewTees - 2 Homebrew T-shirts
Cindy Renfrow - "A Sip through Time" book
Climax Brewing Company - PhilChil Fittings
Down East Books - 3 copies of "What's Brewing in New England"
Fermentap - 5 Carboytaps, 3 Siphontaps, 4 Siphon Sprays
Jack Schmidling - One Gott EASYMASHER door prize
John Haas - 3 Hop Varieties T-shirts
Johnston Assoc. Int'l - Brewpub Explorer of the Pacific Northwest
Liquid Bread, Inc. - 6 carbonators & 3 Tote bags
Lone Mountain Designs - Brewery and Microbrewery Maps of the US
Pat Anderson - 6 copies "Using your Cornelius Keg Draft
Red Bank Brewing - 110 lb bag of Steinbach Smoked Malt
Sheaf & Vine - 5 copies of Homebrewing - Vol. 1
Vinotheque - Grab Bag of Goodies, Wine & Beer Labels, 2lb grain
Walnut Creek CDROM - Beer Homebrewing Guide CDROM


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:01:11 -0800
From: Joe Stone <joestone at cisco.com>
Subject: Fermentation Pressure

Bret Schuhmacher referred to Dion Hollenbeck's use of an adjustable
pressure relief valve to vent a Cornelius keg.  Dion's technique
involves replacing the stainless steel spring of a 25-50 PSI Norgren
pressure relief valve with a Cornelius poppet spring to form a 15-40 PSI
pressure relief valve.

  Is there a general "rule of thumb" in terms of fermentation pressure? 
I assume that there is a reason why Dion felt the need to drop the
Norgren pressure relief valve down into the 15-25 PSI range.  At what
point does pressure begin to affect fermentation?

Joe

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:15:25 -0500
From: ajdel <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Phytic Acid/Whirlpool Articles

Al wrote that I wrote:

>>water quite a bit. From memory, a kg of patent malt contains the
>>equivalent of several (5?)mL of concentrated (hardware store strength)

>>hydrochloric acid.

>This implies that we can use hardware store hydrochloric (Muriatic)
>acid for brewing.

I would certainly not advocate (or even admit to) the use of hardware
store HCl in brewing in this forum. The intent was only to illustrate
that there is quite a bit of acid in a couple of pounds of black malt.

And then...

>>One of the advantages of decoction mashing with low kilned
>>grains is that more phytin gets hydrolyzed releasing (assuming calcium

>>is available) more H+ thus dropping the pH further at each decoction.

>Are you sure about this?

No!  I think what happens is something like the following.  Malt
contains the mixed calcium/magnesium salt of phytic acid and the enzyme
phytase catalyzes hydrolysis of this salt to phytic acid. The phytic
acid is then further hydrolyzed to myo-inositol and inorganic phosphate
and the inorganic phosphate reacts with any calcium present to form the
phosphate which precipitates causing, respectively, monohydrogen and
dihydrogen phosphate to release H+ ions and convert to, respectively,
phosphate and monohydrogen phosphate. Thus, while both pilsner and ale
malts are kilned to an extent which allows phytase to survive and
presumably therefore roughly equal amounts of phytic acid are produced
at dough-in the boil of a decoction hydrolyzes more of this phytic acid
than would be hydrolyzed without it so that more phosphate is released
which, providing calcium is present, releases more H+ into the mash.


Richard Steuven wrote:
>There's an excellent discussion of the physics of the whirlpool in
>the new "Brewing Techniques" issue.

Are you sure you don't mean "New Brewer"? I haven't seen the Dec/Jan  BT
so perhaps you don't but NB did have an article on whirlpools in the
last issue.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:17:46 -0800 (PST)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: re: Carboy Spigots

Mark:

I recently called the local wholesaler who was listed on one of those ads
for the "Siphonless Carboy" to see if they were indeed selling them. I
thought it would be a good thing to sell in my shop providing it worked as
indicated and was well designed. It turns out that the wholesaler did not
stock them, was not aware of the ad, and had to return the sample sent to
him because it had cracks in it from the hole drilled. It was also
difficult, if not impossible, to consistently assemble/remove the
coffee/urn-type spigot with the long handled plastic wrench included. The
manufacturer told him that due to the drilling process involved, there was
always going to be a certain percentage of carboys that would have cracks.
The wholesaler, at that point, has refused to carry this product until
those problems have been corrected. It is our combined opinion that these
problems cannot be corected for a reasonable price, if at all. The glass is
thin through the middle of a carboy, and this makes drilling difficult. I
know some of you have done it successfully, but for a manufacturer to claim
they can do it with consistency is very unlikely.

So, at least we have conscientous people in the industry looking out for
us. I was approached by the manufacturer about a year ago to buy this
product directly and I had the same reservations, compounded by the fact
that it would retail for at least twice the price of a regular carboy (and
who wants to pay $35 or more for a carboy with a $3 spigot attached?). With
the information gotten from the wholesaler, I do not plan on carrying this
item. Caveat Emptor!

Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:43:28 -0500
From: ejb11 at psu.edu (Edward J. Basgall)
Subject: Air pump filters

Neal Parker asked about simple "in line" sterile filters for aquarium air
pumps.  I've found a suitable 0.2um pore size sterile filter unit housing
with small hose barb fittings on each end.  I will be ordering a box of
them to use with my aquarium pump.  If you or anyone else is interested I
can send you one filter for $12US each which includes shipping.

To order:  send check or money order with shipping address to:
Ed Basgall, 1176 S. Atherton St. State College, PA, 16801.

cheers
Ed Basgall
State College Underground Maltsters
State College, PA





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:17:07 EST
From: SClaus4688 <SClaus4688 at aol.com>
Subject: marris otter defense

The suggestion that Marris-Otter can cause stuck sparges is once again popping
up in HBD posts.  I thought I'd provide a data point in defense of this
excellent malt.  A couple years ago, through very happy coincidence, I
acquired about 300 pounds of Marris-Otter from Beeston Malting Company for
next to nothing.  I used it exclusively for about a year in both single and
multiple temperature infusion mashes.  My mash/lauter tun has a perforated SS
false bottom and I usually do a 167f mash out.  I NEVER had a stuck sparge
with it or even a slow sparge.

(BTW, there's nothing like having 300 pounds of grain in the basement to give
you that nice warm fuzzy feeling that all is right with the world!)

 -Steve Claussen in PDX


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:14:33 -0500
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: Humor

Greetings All!
The following joke comes from the ORACLE SERVICE HUMOR MAILING LIST:

> A man went into the proctologist's office for his first exam.
> The doctor told him to have a seat in the examination room
> and that he would be with him in just a few minutes.
> 
> Well, when the man sat down in the examination room, he noticed
> that there were three items on a stand next to the doctor's
> desk: a tube of K-Y jelly, a rubber glove, and a beer.
> 
> When the doctor came in, the man said, "Look Doc, this is my first
> exam... I know what the K-Y is for... and I know what the
> glove is for... but what's the BEER for?" At this instant, the
> doctor became noticeably outraged and stormed over to the door.
> 
> The doc flung the door open and yelled to his nurse,
> "Dammit, nurse!!! I said a BUTT LIGHT!!!"

Hoppy Brew Year to all!


Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan    --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
Chris_Cooper at hp.com                 --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
(about 20 miles ENE of Jeff Renner) 


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 20:11 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: BJCP Test Preparation

My posting last week about taking the BJCP test drew more attention than I
expected. A number of people wrote me to ask for advice on how to study,
what to study, where/when tests would be given, etc. I thought I=92d try to
jot down some of my advice on how to get ready for the test while this stuff
is fresh in my mind.

I know there are lots of others that subscribe to this digest that can
clarify, correct, enhance what I=92ve come up with and I hope they do.

First, if you have access to the WWW, make sure to check out the BJCP home
page at WWW.BJCP.ORG. You=92ll find test schedules, locations, study guides,
style guidelines and email addresses for further information there. Its a
great place to start.

The test places a large emphasis on understanding and differentiating beer
styles. Style definitions are an attempt to set up an objective set of
criteria to measure creative recipes and processes (and the results thereof)
to some kind of common, agreed upon, standard. Its a difficult process to 1)
set those guidelines and 2) defend them, as can be witnessed by several
recent discussion threads on this subject. But its all we have and until
someone comes up with something better, that=92s what we have to strive to
become good at, understanding and interpreting what the guidelines mean and
how to evaluate a beer against those guidelines.

That said, there=92s always the classical science and the process of brewing
that=92s well covered in the exam also. Its just that the science part of it
is fairly easy due to all the text available to read, reread and memorize. I
can=92t tell you how many times I went back and re-read Dave Miller=92s
discussion of malts in his Handbook of Homebrewing. Its a very good
reference (imho).

Our group consisted of me and 3 others. I was the neophyte, having only
about 18 months of brewing under my belt before starting, and only about a
year of that doing all grain brews. The others had been brewing for many
years and had all been judging beers albeit without certification. They knew
styles inside and out and the science/process was pretty much old hat to
them. I used and abused them as much as possible, asking as many stupid
questions as I could think of every time we met.

We followed the outline from Brewing Techniques (Scott Bickam, May-August
97). We did 9 sessions, once a week for 9 weeks and skipped the DR Beer
session (although I wanted to do it, nobody else was interested). A lot of
what happened in those sessions was a little frustrating for me. My palate
has never been trained to enjoy or understand complex flavors. I knew the
difference between sweet and sour, but how about bitter and astringent? It
takes a lot (lot!) of practice. I feel like my palate is beginning to become
trained, but it will take lots more beer drinking before I=92m really
comfortable about discerning aromas and flavors accurately. Good reason to
practice!

The outline in BT included a technical discussion for each tasting session.
This was pretty much ignored by everyone in the group except me. I continued
to bug my study partners with questions relating to the evening=92s=
 technical
topic and thereby building up my knowledge base. Don=92t let the tech topic
discussions get away from you. They are important. Its good healthy
discussion, just like here on the digest.

Here=92s some suggestions on how to run a study group.

1.  Assign one person the responsibility for getting the samples (each
meeting different person). Don=92t do it like we did. We tried a minimum of=
 8
and up to 14 different samples each meeting. All you need is 2 to 4 maximum.
It costs wayyy to much to do a lot of them, and all you do is get buzzed and
lose interest in serious discussions.

2.  Assign one person to the technical topic of the day. That person should
do some research, provide some written materials to the others and come up
with 2 to 4 sample test questions dealing with that topic. The questions and
appropriate answers should be discussed during the session. Apply the
discussion to the style of the evening if possible.

3.  Do the technical discussion first, prior to any sampling. This is self
explanatory.

4.  Prior to doing any sampling, following the technical discussion, discuss
the style. Assign 1 person to do some research on the history of the style
being discussed. Origins, history and development of the style is good
information to have when writing essay answers to beer style questions. It
also helps to understand sometimes why the beers taste and look the way they
do (or the way they should). Like the differences between Porter and Stout
(part of one of our questions was to differentiate between Robust Porter and
Imperial Stout).


5.  Get some judging forms and judge each sample of the style you are
working on that evening. If at all possible, especially for the first few
sessions, get an experienced (good) beer judge to help you. There are very
bad ways to fill out judging forms and there are really good ways to do it.
I=92m sure you=92ve all experienced both. I can=92t tell you how much=
 difference
it made to have Dave Sapsis and Dave Brattstrom help us develop our
techniques for communicating back to the brewer what we were seeing,
tasting, smelling. Constructive criticism is not easy, especially when that
beer you just had is really really bad. Like some of those Belgians=85

There=92s probably a million other little things I=92m forgetting. The Gold
Country Brewers Association (GCBA) (on the web somewhere) put together a
really complete set of reference materials and their own study guide. Dave B
was kind enough to share his with us. Listed below are the pieces which I
feel were really the meat of the package:

a.  Excerpts from Beer and Brewing volume 6, 20 talks from the National
Homebrewers Conference; Michael Jackson on Styles, Ted Konis on the Origins
of Normal and Abnormal Flavor.

b.  A Homebrewers Guide to Beer Flavor Descriptors, Special Issue of Zymurgy
1987.

c.  A Spectrum of colors and Flavors - The Great Grain Special Issue of
Zymurgy, 1995.

d.  The Essential Oil of Hops: Hop Aroma nd Flavor in Hops and Beer, Glenn
Tinseth 1993 (not sure where this was published). Are you there Glen?

e.  Why Water Matters, Zymurgy Special issue 1995

f.  Yeast Cycles: Ethanol, C02, and Byproducts, George Fix, Zymurgy Special
Issue 1985.

g.  Stepping up to Advanced Techniques, Mashing Basics, Jim Busch, Brewing
Techniques March/April 1995 (and he does it again only better in 1997).

For my own studying, I went out and bought the latest revision of Michael
Jackson=92s Beer Companion. Its recently revised, like 1997 I think (Brian
borrowed it last week). Its got a ton of wonderful history, recipies,
anectdotes and commercial examples of every style imaginable. Enjoyable
reading, makes a great coffee table book.

The best, most complete reference I used was Dave Miller=92s Handbook of
Homebrewing. It just has so much information organized so well, its like my
encyclopeadia and where I go first. I gave up with NCJOHB long ago. I have
Gregg Noonan=92s New Brewing Lager Beer and read it cover to cover, but=
 found
it not as well organized as Miller=92s book.

For chemistry, George Fix=92s Principles of Brewing Science is great. It=
 even
has a primer on basic chemistry in the appendix for those of us that need=
 it.

For Hops, I personally enjoyed Mark Garetz book "using hops". I continue to
use it every time I formulate a new recipe and have any question on hops.

All in all, nearly everything you need to know to pass the test is in the
BJCP studyguide on the net.

Charley (60 miles west of some of the best skiing in the World) in N. Cal





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Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:27:06 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Wine Making, Plastic Fermenters

From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Question about winemaking


"I have a question though: how should I use sulfite (methabisulfite) to
stop fermentation and stabilize the final product according to my taste?

Use 1 tsp of sulfite for 5 gals of must.  Let sit at least 24 hours
before pitching.  If you are using an exotic yeast, pitch a sample
in a small amount of must to make sure it is ready.

If you let the wine ferment out fully before bottling, there is no
need to stabilize it.

 ...........

From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)

Subject: Don't go rushing to throw out your carboy.... 
     
    
   "  While you can get acceptable results using his method, plastic 
pails are actually quite a bit more difficult to keep in sanitary 
condition than glass carboys.  Plastic scratches easily, and once it is
     scratched, it is no longer useful as a sanitary vessel.
     
I think we have here another classic MOMILY.  This has been
repeated so often it has become dogma but doesn't seem to stand
the test of reality.

First of all, how could sloshing some bleach around in a bucket
be more "difficult" than wrestling with a large glass carboy?

It needs to be proven that bleach sloshed around in a scratched
plastic fermenter is any less sanitary the a carboy sanitized any
way you wish.

One further note on bleach.... it has been years since I followed
the advice of tsps per gallon.  Bleach is dirt cheap and pinching
pennies with it may be the key to the notion that scratched
plastic is deadly.

I use bleach almost full strength in kegs, fermenters or anything
else that I can not sanitize with steam.  If you don't like the smell
or what it does to your hands, cut it in half or ten to one but
the teaspoon is a joke.  Obviously, when used this way careful
rinsing is a must and you end up with a vessle no more sanitary that
the rinse water but that is usually more than adequate.

Back when I used a plastic fermenter, I would put a cup or so of
bleach in it before putting it away.  When I wanted to use it again
I simply rinsed it out and used it.

Bottom line is that there is no more convenient fermenter than
the traditional plastic one with the lid that homebrew retailers
have been selling for years.

js

     

- -- 
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp
                        Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf
             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday



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Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:05:10 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Re: Maris Otter malt..Stuck Sparge

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:44:05 -0800
 .....................From: smurman at best.com........................
I recently did 3 batches with the Hugh Baird Maris Otter malt, and I
can relate that if the crush is not done carefully, this malt is
indeed prone to the "sparge from hell".  My Phils Phloating Bottom
wouldn't handle it, and I had to switch to my old Zapap, with it's
larger hole size.  I think the main problem is that this malt is
 ............................................................................
 .............................
Yikes... I thought it was my sloppy mashing technique... 
I have made 10-15 batches using Brit Pale malt in the last year or so. My
supplier provided me with a bag of Crisp Marris Otter a few weeks ago and
sure enought that batch stuck near the end and I had to restir and recirc
to finish. 
This was my FIRST STUCK SPARGE. I didn't pay it much mind but on reading
above item I remembered the thread from a while back. This is looking like
a bit more than coincidence to me..  
perhaps the Marris Otter is overmodified and crushes too fine under
conventional mill gaps. 
___________________________________________
       JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com
               www.crocker.com/~jwallace  
___________________________________________

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:17:52 EST
From: GuyG4 <GuyG4 at aol.com>
Subject: Compost, Blowoff, and east vs. west.

Dan Asks:
>I'm curious if anybody out there has experience with composting their
brewing waste?

Yeah. Grain plus grass clippings goes fast, works good.  Grain has lots of
Carbon relative to grass..it seems to help things along nicely. Follow
traditional composting techniques, eschew expensive composters...call your
local extension agent for help on low cost, effective composting, become a
master composter, and help other folks. Smell, yes, but I've no oversensitive
olfactory.  Don't put it on your patio.  I don't compost spent hops....dogs
love trucks, but my golden retriever really loves compost. Especially if there
might be a pheasant in it...which he must of course investigate.

In HBD 2584, George DePiro (one of my favorite brewers...I'm a big fan, how's
your steinbier?) notes:
"Dave Burley writes (again) about the evils of blow off tubes and closed 
fermenters (i.e., carboys).  He encourages the use of a plastic pail 
covered with plastic wrap. While you can get acceptable results using his
method, plastic pails are actually quite a bit more difficult to keep in
sanitary condition 
than glass carboys.  Plastic scratches easily, and once it is  scratched, it
is no longer useful as a sanitary vessel.  While I agree with Dave that a
dirty blow off tube can cause infection of the batch, there are some VERY easy
ways to avoid problems"

Yes, it's seems to be time for  Dave's semi-regular notation that closed
fermentation with a blowoff tube is horrible.  George, as usual, outlines
sensible and practical methods to avoid the heinous threat to our beer from
Dave's lurking bacteria.  I would like to add to George's list the use of the
glass (yes, glass!) blowoff tube. Buy one at your local homebrew supply or
make one out of 5/8 inch (say 1.5 cm) inside diameter laboratory glass tubing
bent over a propane torch, and never sweat this argument again!! Drill your
stopper to accept the OD of the glass and you're in business. You can also
make one out of copper tubing if you want.  You may invest several dollars in
one, or you can make one for bloody near free.

Open fermentation for those of us who must live in homes with dogs, children,
cats, etc. doesn't work very well.  Too much dust and hair. Ferment in carboys
with a blowoff, either as George suggests, or use a glass or copper or other
tube, and you won't be sorry. Then, you too can lurk through Dave's next post
on this subject, and you can continue to have fun.

A question: Jeff promotes classic American Pilsener...I've made it several
times, and drunk it a lot...real good beer.  But as Jeff notes, it is an
"eastern" beer.  What was the difference between "eastern" beer and "western"
beer, if there's anyone out there old enough to remember when there was a
distinction?

GuyG4 at  aol.com
Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
Spokane, WA
Blowing 'em off  durn far west of Jeff and also in the Rose Bowl
Go Cougs!!!!  

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:49:26 GMT
From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: Mash efficiency

Merry Christmas-

=46rom 2574,  Brian Dixon said:
=20
+ This brings up an interesting point for me, Kent.  My efficiencies
+ consistently come in at around 90-94%, which seems ungodly high.

And in 2575, Kent Townley responded with:

+ Assuming my hypothesis is correct, my guess would be a measurement
+ error in grain weight and/or specific gravity.

Since efficiency is measured in point-pound/gallon, you need to measure
grain weight, specific gravity, *and* gallons correctly. All three need =
to
accurate.  Let me illustrate this point.

I bought a 10 gallon kettle about two years ago. For my first batch, I =
was
in a pinch and I needed to be able to measure the volume. So I measured =
the
kettle's height, 16", and divided by 10. I plugged the number in to a
spreadsheet to convert to 1/16ths of an inch. I marked off a stick and =
have
used it for about 50 more batches.=20

The other day, I decided to mark a dowel off and retire the stick. I
discovered that I was a little more than a half gallon off at the 5 =
gallon
mark. I thought I had  5g when it was really 5.5g. I increased my
efficiency 10% just by correctly measuring the volume!

BTW, if Freud had been a homebrewer, mash-efficiency envy would've been =
the
biggest disorder of the day (followed by is-my-beer-ruined paranoia).

Since Jeff ranted about signing post with your locations, I'd like to =
vent
my peeve. Yeast numbers. I haven't the foggiest idea which strain your
referring to when folks post 3787, CL-160 or A04, . Please mention the
strain by name at least once then you can drop into shorthand notation.

Happy New Year,
Jason Henning <huskers olywa net>
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing

1930 miles WNW from the Pre-prohibition Lager Revival Center.

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:23:08 +0100
From: Attila Thuroczy <Attila.Thuroczy at sds.no>
Subject: Re: Topping off/Adding water during the boil

>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:50:05 -0800
>From: Steve Armbrust <SteveA at thepalace.com>
>Subject: Topping off/Adding water during the boil

>In HBD #2580, Tom Clark asks about topping off his boiling wort with
>boiling water.

>I do something similar.  I too use a 6-gallon brewpot, which isn't
quite
>big enough to hold all the wort after sparging an all-grain batch.  So
I
>add as much to the brewpot as will fit comfortably without danger of
>From HBD #2583
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:50:05 -0800
>From: Steve Armbrust <SteveA at thepalace.com>
>Subject: Topping off/Adding water during the boil

>In HBD #2580, Tom Clark asks about topping off his boiling wort with
>boiling water.

>I do something similar.  I too use a 6-gallon brewpot, which isn't
quite
>big enough to hold all the wort after sparging an all-grain batch.  So
I
>add as much to the brewpot as will fit comfortably without danger of
>boilover, and then I start a smaller 5-quart "staging" pot boiling with
>some of the remaining wort.  Once the the wort in the brewpot starts
>boiling and the foaming subsides, I add boiling wort from the smaller
>pot to top it off.  Then I add more to the smaller pot and get it
>boiling again (much faster than the large pot) and top off when enough
>evaporates from the brewpot.  This way I end up with a full five
gallons
>at the end of the boil.

The only drawback is the lack of boil time for some of the added wort.
Here I am thinking about a residue of nonbreaked proteins.
Should be a minor problem though.
Myself I add some boiling water, but to get the right amount of wort,
I later add boiled and cooled water to the fermenting wessel.
It's a easy way to reach the target OG.
(Small corrections of IBU and colour should then be done).     

 at ttila

Email: attila.thuroczy at sds.no 


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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:35:46 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Netscape 3.0 use

If there is a reader out there that reads the HBD on Netscape 3.0 as I
do, I would dearly love to ask you some Netscape 3.0 use questions.

TIA  cheers, jim booth, lansing, mi and Private mail of course to

kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us



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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:12:21 -0600 (CST)
From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom)
Subject: War of the Worts email address

It has been pointed out to me that I misprinted the email address for 
the War of the Worts judge coordinator, it should be Nate Brese at:
     rahneb at rohmhaas.com, not "rohmhass".  Two a's, one 's'.
This mistake was made both in announcements on this forum, and in the 
flyers.  Oops

Thank you, astute reader!

"Judges,
We Need Judges,
We need lots and lots of judges..."

Please remember the War of the Worts January 17th, requests for info 
can be addressed to me at: folsom at ix.netcom.com  (I think that's 
right...)

For judgenet readers, please assume I've trashed someone for how many 
bottles they require, or for being an uncouth idiot in how I did so.  
It's the 'in' thing.

Al Folsom

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:19:19 -0500
From: "Spies, James" <Jams at mlis.state.md.us>
Subject: Undercarbonated batch

Greetings All -

Venturing out once again from my lurker status . . .

I recently brewed an I.P.A. which was pitched directly on the yeast cake
of a previous batch of I.P.A. which had just been bottled.  The yeast
was Wyeast 1968 ESB, and the initial batch came out fine.  Some of your
regular readers may remember my earlier post regarding reusing the yeast
cake (thank you all for your responses, the unanimous opinion was "pitch
away").  The first batch came out wonderfully, very hoppy with a some
nice complimentary caramel notes in the nose.  The problem, however, and
the reason for the post, is batch #2.  Fermentation was fast and
furious, and the yeast cake after the second batch came out of primary
was HUGE.  However, the batch never carbonated, even after doing exactly
the same procedures as batch #1 (boiling 2 c water, dissolving 3/4 c
corn sugar, cooling, adding to fermented beer, mixing and bottling.)
Was there not enough yeast in suspension when I siphoned the beer off of
the cake?  I know 1968 is flocculent, but geez!  How can I remedy this
situation?  The batch has only been in the bottles for 2 weeks.  Should
I just let it sit and hope for the best, or uncap, add a pinch of sugar
to each bottle and recap, or what?  Please help!!  I would love this
batch to be carbonated, as the taste is wonderful.  BTW, there is no
sugary taste in the beer, so the yeasties apparently ate what food I fed
them at bottling (which makes the lack of CO2 even more puzzling . . . )
 Posts can be made to   jams at mlis.state.md.us or to the collective as a
whole if you feel that the information would be helpful to the masses (I
feel that it would, as undercarbonatd beer is one of homebrewing's most
frustrating situations.)

TIA for your help . . .

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:30:39 -0700
From: Jim Anderson <jander at xmission.com>
Subject: Glass Airlocks

In HBD #2584 Rust1d answers a query from "Mike":

> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:40:22 -0500 (EST)
> From: Rust1d <rust1d at usa.net>
> Subject: Glass Airlock
> 
> Mike writes:
> >Also, does anyone know where I might get a glass airlock?

I somehow missed Mike's original post here.  I've gotten several really
nice glass airlocks through The Gourmet Brewer (no affiliation, blah
blah).  If memory serves, they're in the $7 ballpark.  IMHO, they're
worth it, as long as you're gentle with 'em ... I've already broken one.

  - Jim

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:29:17 -0500
From: Tom Williams <brewman at mail.wwnet.net>
Subject: Wassail recipe request

Can any one (or a number) of you good folks here provide some Wassail
recipes?  If this has been asked recently, please forgive and point me in
the right direction.

Gun Bai!!  and Happy Holiday's

Tom Williams
<brewman at wwnet.com>


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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:46:57 -0800
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE:Nitrogen and stout taps

JC Ferguson asked;

> I have a "stout" fawcet that I use to serve homebrew with the N2/CO2
> gas mix, ala guinness.  I serve the beer out of cornelius kegs in a fridge
> that has a temp at about 40F or so.  The N2/CO2 tank sits outside the
> fridge at room temperature.
> 
> My problem is I can never get the beer to dispense ala guinness!  
> When I keg, I do not prime at all, since that would generate CO2.
> I tap the keg, turn on the guinness gas, and pour a pint, but it comes
> out with NO head!  i have tried force carbonating with the guinness
> gas on at 28 PSI and shaking the keg without a whole lot of luck.  
> what I have observed is as the keg gets lower, the head starts to get
> better. 


There will probably be lots of responses, but...

First, 40F is too cold to serve a stout.
Second, Guinness is CARBONATED with CO2 and DISPENSED with CO2/N2.

So, force carbonate with CO2 at 30 psi and serve with your stout gas.
That should solve your problem.
- -- 
Kit Anderson				ICQ# 2242257
Bath, Maine				<kitridge at bigfoot.com>
		
"I had the right rib, but it musta been the wrong sauce" - Dr. John


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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:52:16 -0600
From: Bill_Rehm at DeluxeData.com
Subject: Motorizing Corona Mills/Converted Keg Fermenters


A while back I posted a question about motorizing my Corona Grain Mill, I
received many responses and the general consensus was to remove the handle
get a bolt that fits in the threaded hole used to secure the handle, cut
the head off, thread it into the hole and attach the drill. Thanks to all
who responded.  I also talked with the brewers at a local Micro, Lakefront
Brewery in Milwaukee WI (no affiliation..yada yada) and he had the same
idea, he even went so far as to say that when they started out they used a
Corona at the brewery.

Another idea I've had was to convert a keg to use as a primary fermenter,
has anyone out there in the collective done this?  How can it be done and
what are the results (good and bad). Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
bill rehm
Milwaukee, WI

Merry X-mas to all, and to all a good brew!



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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:43:57 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Heavy Metal brew

HBDers,
I'll take a stab at what causes beer to taste like metal.

We all know that SS needs to passivated, meaning to allow
the protective oxide layer to form BEFORE you brew with it.
What IF the tanks/tuns where improperly cleaned thus removing
the oxide layer and exposing the wort/beer to the raw SS.
Wouldn't the brew then take on the metallic taste?

Mike Spinelli
Mikey's Monster Brew
Cherry Hill NJ


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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:04:32 -0600
From: Graham Barron <gbarron at cq.com>
Subject: Re: A-B attacks

Raymond Estrella wrote a defense of A-B's most recent tactics in trying to
drive out competition in the craft beer industry.  He wrote:

>  I am not a fan of A-B but I would not mind seeing the true birth (brew) 
>place
>of the beers that I buy.
>  Your buddy Sam Adams, (J.K.) makes his Oregon Originals, that are not
>made in Oregon, nor are original. It is called misleading marketing, and it 
>works.  Boy, are we gullible.

Right, but I think you're missing the point of the case.  A-B is pushing
this thing because they won't have to change ANY of their labels.  A-B has
won a ruling in the past (I guess from the BATF or a judge somewhere) that
says its allright for them to put "St. Louis, Missouri" as the source of
their beer regardless of where its made.  And as we all know, A-B has many
breweries all over the country manufacturing their filth.  So what does
this labeling law cost them?  Nothing.  However it would require Sam Adams,
et alia, to change many of their labels, at much expense.

He continues:
>A-B's main
>stream products don't have many IBUs, and do not sit on the shelves as long 
>as the green bottled brands that they pick on in the ads. The clear
bottled products use a >specially treated hop extract 
>that 
>wont skunk.

So this justifies their ad campaign that they're really concerned about
freshness and "truth"?  I don't think so.  I doubt their is any difference
between a skunked Bud and a fresh Bud (at least to my taste "buds".  The
local craft brewers and brewpubs are the ones really concerned about
quality and freshness.

>>You don't hear ads from Pete's,
>>Rogue, whatever saying A-B beer isn't any good because they use lots of
>>adjuncts.  They have too much class to do so, and are too busy pushing
>>their own product.
>
>  They would not say that because a lot of the worlds great beers use 
>adjuncts.  Belgian, Scotch and English Ales come to mind.

Right, but are those adjuncts designed to cheapen the beer in both quality,
flavor, and cost?  No, they generally improve the product or make it
unique.  What does rice or corn add to the beer to make it better, in other
than financial terms?

Please don't interpret this as a flame or personal attack, but I'm really
dismayed that there are craft beer drinkers/home brewers out there that
will go to such lengths to defend A-B and  their anti-competitive,
anti-craft brew tactics.


Graham L. Barron
Washington, DC, USA

Life is too short to drink cheap beer.

Beer. If you can't taste it, why bother!

Friends don't let friends drink Light Beer.

If nothing beats a Bud, given the choice, I'd take the nothing...

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---