HOMEBREW Digest #2592 Thu 25 December 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Test messages, attachments, multi-part MIME ("Pat Babcock")
  Re: Exploding Bottles ("Pat Babcock")
  First Lager (Steelbrew)
  Non-alcoholic homebrew (Scott Kaczorowski)
  natural gas burners (Kenneth Sullivan)
  Re: Using Malto-Dextrin/Lactose ("Tkach, Christopher")
  overnight mashing ("Spies, James")
  mash time (bob farrell)
  Controlling Fermentation Temperature (SBireley)
  racking (Drew Buscareno)
  Over- vs. Underfilling (Al Korzonas)
  Stuck Ferment (John Varady)
  Corona vs. MaltMill (Al Korzonas)
  Rubber stoppers ("Kirk Harralson")
  Mash problems ("Kirk Harralson")
  RE: Nitrogen and stout taps (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Merry Christmas ("Rob Moline")
  A-B public service messages (Samuel Mize)
  Under carbonated... (Brian S Kuhl)
  Maris Otter Malt (Brian S Kuhl)
  NA BEER, Humor? (Jack Schmidling)
  Not a defense, didn't take offense. ("Raymond Estrella")
  Airlocks & Blow Off Tubes (Fred and Sue Nolke)
  CO2 volumes (mwmccaw)
  Valley Mill Gap Measurement (Ray Kruse)
  Brew Contests ("R.Lewis")
  Hempen Ale (DGofus)
  Triple Bock (Steve)
  Roller Wear... (MacRae Kevin J)
  Anheuser-Busch: Brewer Perspective (Randy Lee)
  Re: Maris Otter problems? (Pat Lohmann)

Ho! Ho! Ho! Ho! Ho! Ho! Merry Christmas! - The HBD Janitors and Steering Committee NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to homebrew-request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at realbeer.com Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via: Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 23:36:49 -0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Test messages, attachments, multi-part MIME Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Recently, there has been a rash of test messages, messages containing attachments, and multi-part MIME encoded messages entering (and being tossed out of...) the queue. Just a reminder (and possibly new information on the attachments): * Please DON'T send "test" messages to the Digest server. It wastes server overhead, and Karl's and my time since we have to go through every submission to the Digest in search of SPAM and other bad messages - whether you cancel it or not! * The Digest will not process an attachment into your post. If you are snacking off of something else, be sure to cut it and paste it into your note or your note will appear as a blank or incomplete message and get refused. This is not an attempt to censor, simply a function intentionally left out of the server's capabilities. * Be sure to TURN OFF MULTI-PART MIME on your e-mail client. HTML, Winmail information, rtf compression, etc. waste bandwidth and are not used by the Digest. Having any of the aforementioned encoding tacked onto the end of your message will get your message refused 100% of the time. Again, not an attempt to censor, just to preserve bandwidth. Tis the season that the queue grows days long. Every little bit saved in message length helps to reduce the delay. Happy Holidays! See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org AOL FDN Beer & Brewing Maven BrewBeerd at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:07:41 -0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Re: Exploding Bottles Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... "Mark Ellis" <mellis at gribbles.com.au> ponders compressibility issues.. > Hang on a minute there. Please could some engineers etc jump in here > any time and verify this. What I am about to say lacks a bit of the > scientific stuff so please falme away! No flames, just facts: Gasses are compressible. Liquids are not. This is why both air compressors and brake systems work. Your brakes work because the brake fluid is incompressible. Your tires inflate when you go to the air pump because gasses are. (NOTE: liquids with gasses dissolved in them ARE compressible, but not enough to be a consideration in our discussion.) If you had excess fermentables and NO headspace, the pressure has nowhere to go. KABLAM! as they say on that weird Nickelodeon show. With adequate headspace, the gas in the headspace will compress "cushioning" the force from the bottle walls. With inadequate headspace, the pressure has nowhere to go but through the bottle walls. This is not to say that you don't run the risk of creating antipersonnel mines even with an inch or so of headspace. If there are excess fermentables to the extent that the head pressure exceeds the bursting strength of the container, you are once again in the ordnance manufacturing industry. > I am led to believe that it is a combination of EXCESS head space of > AIR and too much fermentable matter in the solution (beer) which > will usually lead to exploding bottles. Drop the headspace comment and you're dead on. > For instance, if anyone is completely stupid enough to try and fill > an empty corny keg with compressed anything in gas form they will > literally blow themselves up grenade style. Depends on the pressure. Most kegs are rated for a minimum of 180 psig. Most are quite a bit higher (For instance, mine are rated at 320 psig). I've never seen a brew generate more than 50 psig at cellar temperatures in my brewery, and that seems reasonable. I think what you were looking for was filling with compressed gas in LIQUID form. There, you're right, but it's pretty tough to do. That or "straight-gut" from the CO2 tank to the cornie. But that, again, is pretty tough to do. No-one is likely to blow themselves up by having excess fermentables in their kegged beer. > Conversely, they greater the amount of fluid in the keg, the > pressure will be such that the keg SHOULD simply split. Draw your > own parallel with a bottle. First, the failure mechanism wouldn't change simply because there is liquid inside. As opposed to glass, if the pressure ramp is gradual, like in freezing a sealed keg of water (ask Rich Byrnes...), the keg will usually gently rip itself up a seam or at some other weak point (like a sharp dent, for instance...). This is because it is nowhere near as brittle as glass it will yield before failure. Glass simply fails. - A keg will go up like a grenade only if the pressure is an impulse ("immediate spike") and of suffient force. There really is no parallel to glass. > Make sure fermentation has finished, dont overprime, and fill your > bottle as high as possible. At least you probably wont kill > yourself this way. This is the key! Great advice. Many, most recently and notably Jack Schmidling, profess to brewing without a hydrometer. Hell, I occassionally do myself. BUT: I've been brewing for over twenty years, and only brew this way on tried, tested and true recipes. I *KNOW* these beers well enough to determine when they are finished. If you don't have the experience in your brewery or with a particular recipe to be able to tell when your beer has fermented out w/o the use of a hydrometer, use one. There is no bravado or machismo to not using one, and it will ultimately provide you data which may prove useful in order for you to share or duplicate the recipe later... And I am an engineer. Hell, I even play one on the television (Well, at least until I "fix" it so much I have to buy a new one...) Pat Babcock pbabcock at oeonline.com Launching the Renner-Positioning Satellite in SE Michigan Hand-held RPS units are available wherever fine beer is sold. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:40:09 EST From: Steelbrew <Steelbrew at aol.com> Subject: First Lager Hey All, I'm in the process of making my first lager, and I've got some questions. What I've done is fermented the primary for one week in a cold room where the temperature holds at about 52F. I then racked to a secondary and put the beer in a water bath in my garage, where the temp is in the mid to high 40s. Is this a good secondary temp (yeast is Wyeast 2308 Munich lager)? I'm considering adding frozen PET bottles to the water bath, but would this make things get too cold? What about a diacytl rest? The inspiration for this beer was a bottle of Schlenkerla Rauchbier that I received as a gift. Up until I tried this I had little interest in lagers. Does anyone know if this beer is a smoked Marzen or a Bamberg-style Rauchbier? The label mentions both names, but my German ain't too good. If anyone has a good clone of this I would be very interested in the recipe... Dan Fox Olympia, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 9:09:17 PST From: Scott Kaczorowski <kacz at nfs.aisf.com> Subject: Non-alcoholic homebrew Sorry for the repetition, but the following has only been refuted once (by Dave Burley) as far as I can tell, and it deserves further blasting: > 1. Pre-heat the oven to 180 degrees F. > 2. Place fermented beer in SS or enameled-pot in oven. > 3. Leave in oven for 20-30 minutes, stirring occasionally. > 4. Remove beer from oven and give final stir. Absolutely, positively, under no circumstances, will this process EVER produce anything even resembling a low alcohol beer, let alone a no- alcohol brew, even assuming the poster meant "heat the *beer* to 180F and hold for 20-30 minutes". THIS WILL NOT WORK. Not ever. Not even sorta. Not even if you do this for several hours. Sorry if that sounds condescending, but this is very dangerous advice. If the intent is to reduce the alcohol so that one can drink 3 pints instead of only 2 on a school night (worthy cause, IMO), then give it a whirl. What's to lose? If the intent is to give the beer to someone who, for whatever reason, cannot have alcohol, then please, don't even think about it. I believe it was Dr. Maribeth Raines (apologies Dr. Raines, I believe your name has changed?) who actually boiled off a substantial portion of homebrew (on the order of 50%?), rehydrated, and found that the resulting beer still contained substantial amounts of ethanol. Most proponents of the "heat to X degrees (below boiling point of water) Y minutes" assume that because the boiling point of ethanol is well below that of water, that the alcohol will 'boil off' leaving the rest of the beer relatively intact. It simply doesn't work this way in practice. Ken Schwartz was much closer to the mark when he suggested brewing something like an OG 1.016 Porter and knocking the ferment down via either refrigeration or filtering at about SG 1.010. One final apology for all the guesswork on the particulars, but I believe my points are otherwise sound. Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA kacz at nfs.aisf.com "The shape it takes could be yours to chose What you may win, what you may lose" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:50:11 -0700 (MST) From: Kenneth Sullivan <kenneth.sullivan at Central.Sun.COM> Subject: natural gas burners Happy Holidays, I am searching for the proper parts and method to safely build a converted keg brewery using natural gas burners and controls. I can get used gas stove burner assemblies for $10 each. I'm not sure I can convert these to work, anybody with experience out there? Know a supplier for parts? I haven't had the digest for 9 months, so I apologize if this subject has been beat to death. Please respond to kjsulli at central.sun.com Thanks, KJ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:00:34 -0500 From: "Tkach, Christopher" <tkach at ctron.com> Subject: Re: Using Malto-Dextrin/Lactose Roy- I had the same problem w/ a blueberry ale that I brewed up this summer. After all the fermentation had completed, the nice blueberry flavor had disappeared and there was now a strong sourness to the beer. And in fact, I posted the same questions to the hbd about it, try a search. Everyone told me not to use malto-dextrin at bottling because it may ferment, etc... Well, I went ahead and used it anyway. Basically, I added 4oz (I was going to add a full 8oz, but everyone got me pretty scared) along w/ 3/4 cup of priming sugar at bottling, and I have to say that the beer carbonated fine (ie no bottle bombs), and wasn't too fizzy. On the other hand, I'm not too sure if it did much for the sourness, but that has subsided a bit and is considerably less strong upon bottling (its been in the bottles for 4 months now!). I think if I was to do it again, I would add 8oz of malto-dextrin, and maybe 2/3 cup of priming sugar (just to be on the safe side) for 5gal. However, YMMV. - Chris Newmarket, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:01:36 -0500 From: "Spies, James" <Jams at mlis.state.md.us> Subject: overnight mashing Greetings all - A question regarding overnight mashing . . . In an attmpt to save time and energy on brew day, as well as hopefully ensure complete conversion, I would like to do an overnight mash in a 10-gallon Gott cooler equipped with a Phil's Phloater ;-) My question is, will letting the mash sit on top of the false bottom all night make it difficult/impossible to recirculate the runoff? If people have tried this, do you recirculate a little to set the bed before going to bed yourself, or just dough in and wait until morning to recirculate? I would like to avoid a stuck sparge if possible. On a related note, are there resources out there to determine the proper dough-in temperature of the strike water using the amount and temperature of the grains as calculation baselines? I know I've seen them discussed in random threads on the digest, but can't quite remember, and since I'm already taking up bandwidth anyway . . . As an aside, I can honestly say that I've learned more practical things about brewing from simply reading this forum than I have from any other resource out there. Because of the HBD, I was able to make a very smooth transition from extract to all-grain within one year of my first batch. Keep up the good discussions. As an aside, much of the techie stuff sails over my head like the proverbial flock of seagulls (lawyer by trade), but I usually read the (science) to help me get a perspective on the (art). This forum has the best of both. As always, TIA . . . Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:56:15 -0800 From: bob farrell <bfarrell at windermere.com> Subject: mash time Getting ready for my first all-grain brew and I have a question about mash time. In "The BrewMaster's Bible by Stephen Snyder (page 25) the author states "it is recommended that the mash not exceed 120 minutes unless absolutely necessary to avoid extracting harsh tannins from the grain husks." However in Zymurgy's "The Great Grain Issue" (1995, Vol. 18, No. 4) there is an article on pages 66-67 "Mashing and Saving Time" where the author recommends mashing overnight. He states "the two major advantages to an overnight mash are assurance of adequate saccharification (provided you have good temperature control) and the time saved by sleeping while mashing." I thought harsh tannin extraction was a problem caused by mash temperature, is time a factor, too? Anyone have first hand experience with overnight mashing? Happy Holidays Bob Farrell Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 13:51:00 EST From: SBireley at renex.com Subject: Controlling Fermentation Temperature I am new to HBD but have been an occaissonal reader over the past year or so. I am concerned about maintaining the desired temperature in primary fermentation. We typically brew 10 gallon batches and ferment in a sankey type keg. We have in the past fermented at an ambient temperature of 68F, but recently discovered that the actual temperature of the fermenting wort was 10 degrees higher! We have since started fermenting in a refrigerator using a temperature control to control the compressor in the summer, and a light bulb to heat it in the winter. (It is in my garage). I am controlling the interior temperature of the refrigerator, not the wort. At fermentation, I can keep the refrigerator temperature at 58 and have a wort temperature of 66 F during the most active part fermentation. As the fermentation slows down after 3 days or so the temperature starts to drop and is at 58 2 days later. Is this change in wort temperature a problem? Does anyone have any suggestions to maintain a consistent temperature throughout fermentation? Thanks Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:30:33 -0800 From: Drew Buscareno <drewbuscareno at skyenet.net> Subject: racking I have been brewing for about two years with pretty good results. I have had some problems with racking from primary to secondary and from secondary to my bottling bucket, especially since my brewing partner moved away. I typically fill my racking cane and hose with water to start a siphon. While not terribly difficult, this technique does pose its challenges not the least of which is losing the siphon midway through and aerating the wort. Note I have tried Phil's siphon starter and another brand without much luck. The homebrew store I order from just recommended starting the siphon with my mouth which is counter to everything I have read. Is there a fool proof way to rack beer from one carboy to the next and what would the equipment cost? Is there some sort of siphon starter pump that has been developed for this very purpose? I would appreciate any and all thoughts on this matter. Drew Buscareno South Bend, IN drewbuscareno at skyenet.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:21:49 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Over- vs. Underfilling Scott writes: >I had some >over-filled, and some under-filled bottles from the same batch, and I >don't know exactly which ones broke. I did note that when I relieved >the pressure on these babies, the underfilled bottles seemed much more >carbonated. In fact they resulted in gushers. I don't understand the science behind it, but I've proven to myself many times (most recently this weekend) that underfilled bottles carbonate no differently than "normally" filled bottles. Overfilled bottles, however, carbonate *much* slower and may actually end up less carbonated no matter how long you wait. If you were to overprime, bottle before the beer was fully fermented, get a wild yeast infection or some combination of these, your overfilled bottles may appear properly carbonated while the underfilled bottles would be gushers. I know others have repeated my experiment (posted in HBD... see the archives) so maybe they will post their concurrence. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Stuck Ferment I have four batches going currently that have all apparently stuck. Maerzen w/Bavarian Lager, fermenting 3 weeks, O.G. 1055 Stuck at 1022. Temp at 48F. Yeast pitched from the bottom of primary. Porter w/German Ale, 2 weeks, O.G. 1057 Stuck at 1026. Temp started at 58F. Moved to 64F when stuck. Yeast pitched from starter made from smack pack stepped up 4 times over 1 week. ESB w/Northwest ESB, 1 week, O.G. 1053 Stuck at 1024. Temp at 64F. Yeast direct from brewery. IPA w/Northwest ESB, 1 week, O.G. 1060 Stuck at 1028. Temp at 64F. Yeast direct from brewery. I am beginning to seriously suspect my aeration technique. I pump cooled wort from the kettle and spray it into the fermenter. This raises lots of foam and I will usually have to start filling the second carboy while the first one settles before I can top it up. I pitch large quantities of yeast, either from the bottom of a primary or fresh from a local brewery. All batches started out quick, developed krausen and fermented strong. Each batch is in two 6.75 gallons carboys or three 5 gallon carboys. All carboys filled from a batch exhibited the same behavior and stuck gravity. Is there anything I can do to fix the problem? I have tried dropping one of the ESB's to see if that gets it going. I have almost every carboy I own tied up with these brews. I normally keg but was hoping to put up some bottles for summer. I don't want bottle bombs so I need to resolve this. Tanks, John Varady * New email address ***> rust1d at usa.net Glenside, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:43:51 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Corona vs. MaltMill Just a data point... Back when I used to own a HB supply store, a customer who had been using a Corona mill for many years, bought a MaltMill. He called me later to let me know that his average efficiency had improved 20%. I know of two microbreweries that used Coronas and I know they have made great beer with them, but I feel that rollermills result in far better crushes with far less adjusting and consistently better efficiency. With the Corona you have a tradeoff between uncrushed malt and fractured husks. Use a Corona for making tortillas... use a rollermill for making beer. The right tool for the right job. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 15:38:54 -0500 From: "Kirk Harralson"<kwh at ismd.ups.com> Subject: Rubber stoppers The recent posts warning about possible infections from scratched plastic fermenters makes me wonder about the rubber stoppers in the top of glass fermenters -- wouldn't these be just as likely (if not moreso) to harbor nasties? My stoppers look pretty rough, and I'm sure there are MANY microscopic crevices for these little critters to set up shop. I ferment exclusively in glass, but I only see two advantages: watching fermentation is really cool; and, my dog can't get into a carboy (yet). The biggest drawback to glass, in my opinion, is the possibility of dropping a full carboy. I've been very lucky so far, but every time I carry a carboy down the steps to my basement, I get a little paranoid. As creative as some of the people on this list are, I'm sure someone will find a better way. Kirk Harralson Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 15:55:13 -0500 From: "Kirk Harralson"<kwh at ismd.ups.com> Subject: Mash problems For some reason, my latest mash did not go too well. First, my initial runnings would NOT clear. I usually only have to recirculate a cup or two with my Easymasher. I recirculated almost a gallon, and the runnings never did clear! I used my typical lazy man's mash schedule (90 minutes at 155F); same crush setting on my mill as always; no adjuncts. In other words, the same procedure I've used hundreds of times before. The hot break was phenomenal. I had at least 3/4 gallon of "gunk" left in the kettle, and about 3.5 inches in the bottom of the carboy made it through. The only thing I could think of that was different about this batch was that the malt (2 row American) was about a year old. Would this make any difference? Other than this, I don't have a clue what the problem(s) was. As this will probably be my last post of the year, I'd like to take a little bandwidth to wish everyone on the list a happy holiday season, and a new year filled with many occasions to celebrate with a homebrew to be proud of! Cheers to all! Kirk Harralson Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:42:20 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Nitrogen and stout taps From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> >The reason nitrogen is used to dispense beer is not to >produce a nice head, it is because it can be dispensed at a >higher pressure without causing additional carbonation and >the foam that goes with it. It's so they can sell more >beer faster not to make tiny bubbles. >Don't feel bad, I got sucked into it too but now I am back >to good old CO2. The reason I am so smart is because I have >made so many mistakes. Well, dunno, it would seem like a lot of trouble and expense for the purpose of selling beer faster, after all, how fast can customers drink it? It has always been my experience that the nitrogen/CO2 mixture with the special tap actually is a slower pour. I have watched as the Barista dispensed, waited, dispensed, waited, and asked my patience for the full pint. Guess you are getting smarter yet, Jack! :>) Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:02:22 -0600 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net> Subject: Merry Christmas Twas the morn after Christmas By Roger Grow 'Twas the morn after Christmas and all through the house My homebrew was missing, consumed by some louse; The kegs in the reefer had been sucked dry with malice And small sooty footprints, they riddled my palace; I checked in the corner, Grand Cru had been taken But the Coors Extra Gold had all been forsaken; Who was responsible for this gluttonous action Could it have been Charlie? or perhaps Michael Jackson?; I walked back to the fireplace my mood in a slump, When I noticed my stocking had a generous lump; Out the top hops were bulging, Hallertauer Mittelfrueh, Cascades and Fuggles, East Kent in there too; I had a sneaky suspicion who the culprit might be When my eye caught a glitter from under the tree; A pot, all of stainless and cane, made for racking Confirmed my suspicion as to who'd done the sacking; I decided directly it was that jolly old elf And that bowl full of jelly didn't appear by itself; Those cheeks o-so-rosy were a giveaway too A glowing reminder of his taste for homebrew; I decided being Christmas, I'd forgive the fat fellow When I saw in the front yard, something twisting and yellow; I looked somewhat closer and what did I see But "thanks for the homebrew" in the snow, penned with pee: So from this Christmas forward, my plans they are clear I'll exploit Santa's weakness for hand crafted beer; Just send him my wish list and to clinch my vast order There'll be no milk and cookies, just pretzels and porter. Roger Grow is a member of "The Tribe" homebrewing club of Longmont, Colorado. The Tribe currently holds the record for the highest altitude batch of homebrew. Thanks Curt! And "Hoppy Christmas and a Malty New Year" from Jethro Gump! Cheers! Jethro Rob Moline Brewer At Large brewer at ames.net Ames, Iowa. "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:40:17 -0600 (CST) From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> Subject: A-B public service messages Greetings to all, and especially to: > HOMEBREW Digest #2588 Sat 20 December 1997 > From: Graham Barron <gbarron at cq.com> > Subject: Re: A-B attacks > Raymond Estrella wrote a defense of A-B's most recent tactics in trying to > drive out competition in the craft beer industry. He wrote: > > > I am not a fan of A-B but I would not mind seeing the true birth (brew) > >place > >of the beers that I buy. > > Your buddy Sam Adams, (J.K.) makes his Oregon Originals, that are not > >made in Oregon, nor are original. It is called misleading marketing, and it > >works. Boy, are we gullible. If the "Oregon Originals" are not contracted to Oregon brewers, the name seems misleading. On the other hand, the last I read, the Oregon craft brewing trade organization had pulled out of the lawsuit. They were still mad at Koch, but they said that A-B was using it as a marketing tool, and hurting them also (rough paraphrase from memory). I don't consider A-B et al quite as nefarious as some folks do -- but I certainly don't consider their ads to be motivated by public spirit! I'd consider "Oregon Originals" a special case. Normally, I don't care WHERE a beer was made. I'm concerned about how it's been stored and handled, which has FAR more to do with who's distributing and storing it. One delivery simian can skunk your beer while he brings it into the store -- it takes maybe a minute of daylight, longer if the bottle is green. > If nothing beats a Bud, given the choice, I'd take the nothing... Perhaps: Nothing is better than Bud, and you can still drive too! Best, Sam Mize - I'm in Texas, Irving. - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 15:59:00 PST From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com> Subject: Under carbonated... Hi Jay, You might save this batch with little trouble. How is your temperature where you are bottle conditioning? Try to keep the temperature up to about 72 degrees or so. I even roust the yeast in the bottled by rocking the cases. Do this every other day for a week. I was starting to get this problem because I was too careful racking. Now, I make sure to transfer a little yeast from the bottom into the bottling bucket. Good Luck, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 16:05:00 PST From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com> Subject: Maris Otter Malt Hello all, After hearing what peoples experiences were with Maris Otter malt, I was wondering how people like the taste. I have heard that this malt is one of the best malts to use. I have a batch of APA going now in which I used this malt. Since this is the first time I have used this malt, I cannot comment on it's taste contribution to this beer; however, I didn't have any sparge issues with my copper manifold setup. Comments please... Merry Christmas, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:54:45 -0800 From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> Subject: NA BEER, Humor? "Liquid Man" aka Craig Myers says: >As to your question of NA brews: >1. Pre-heat the oven to 180 degrees F. >2. Place fermented beer in SS or enameled-pot in oven. >3. Leave in oven for 20-30 minutes, stirring occasionally. >4. Remove beer from oven and give final stir. You make a point of pre-heating the oven but seem to have forgotten to pre-heat the beer. I doubt that you could measure the amount of alcohol driven off with that process. The BEER must be held at about that temperature for about that amount of time, not the air in the oven. The simple fix is to put the beer on top of the stove and heat it till the BEER is 180 F. You may then turn off the stove and let it air-cool for 30 minutes, chill and keg. There is an Applicaton Note on my web page on a process I worked out along with lab analysis of the beer after processing. The bottom line is you can not get rid of all the alcohol without additional steps but you can get rid of enough that it will not turn on an alcoholic person. Bill says: "Save your money and don't buy an expensive mill, get a Corona. Some of us just have money to burn and love to throw it away on expensive yuppie toys. I bought a Corona, motorized it and use it on a regular basis. My life would not be complete without it. You see, there is a wheat farmer across the road and the Corona is vastly superior to the MM for turning raw wheat into flour for my bread. The complete yuppie has both. js - -- Visit our WEB pages: Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 01:58:40 UT From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at classic.msn.com> Subject: Not a defense, didn't take offense. Hello to all, and Merry Christmas. Graham Barron mistakenly writes about my A-B post, >Raymond Estrella wrote a defense of A-B's most recent tactics in trying to >drive out competition in the craft beer industry. Read it again. I am not defending A-B. I am saying that we should not let emotions and ignorance get in the way of logical thinking. I do not like A-B, especially the strong arm tactics that they are pulling with beer distributors. That hurts my ability to get the beer that I do want. (Not A-B products) I met, and had a very interesting conservation with the master brewer of A-B's specialty line. He listened, and agreed with me (on a few points) that their beers are not really to the styles that they are claiming to be. He is as big a beer geek as you or me, he just gets a 400 bbl system to experiment with. I told him that I do not drink any of the Bud derivatives, and will most likely try the specials only once. I do not buy "micros" like Blue Moon (Coors) or Elk River (A-B) because of who they are owned by. (How about Redhook) I have been drinking good beer (foreign) for 18 years, and micro-brews, like Sierra Nevada, Summit, and Full Sail as they came into existence. >So this justifies their ad campaign that they're really concerned about >freshness and "truth"? The local craft brewers and brewpubs are the >ones really concerned about quality and freshness. Of course their not really concerned about the truth. They are only concerned with making the most money. But you are kidding yourself if you believe that they do not watch product quality. When is the last time you had, or heard of a bad BudMillersCoors. I have had two craft-brews, and one UK ale that were bad in the last 6 weeks. And as far as brew-pubs, ask our buddy Rob Moline what some owners are more concerned with, money....or quality and freshness. >> They would not say that because a lot of the worlds great beers use >>adjuncts. Belgian, Scotch and English Ales come to mind. >Right, but are those adjuncts designed to cheapen the beer in both quality, >flavor, and cost? No, they generally improve the product or make it >unique. What does rice or corn add to the beer to make it better, in other >than financial terms? >Please don't interpret this as a flame or personal attack, but I'm really >dismayed that there are craft beer drinkers/home brewers out there that >will go to such lengths to defend A-B and their anti-competitive, >anti-craft brew tactics. Unfortunately the reason that 95% of beer sold in the US is bland crap, is that is what Joe Average likes and wants. I wish that dark and sweet, nice and hoppy, or rich and malty beers comprised 95% of the market. But until we get taste-educated drinkers out there it wont happen. I am doing my part, and it does not include pretending that mega-brewers are the Boogy-man. Or by turning people off by being a beer snob. No offense taken, hope that I haven't given any. Ray Estrella Cottage Grove, MN ray-estrella at msn.com ******** Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew. ******** 8 brews available, 3 in the secondary, 2 in the primary, none like Bud. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:38:48 -0900 From: Fred and Sue Nolke <fnolkepp at corecom.net> Subject: Airlocks & Blow Off Tubes I suspect that one of the reasons a piece of saran wrap and a rubber band work so well in place of an airlock is due in part to the fact that I have had no blow off to deal with since switching to a six gallon carboy for primary. The gallon of head space has done the trick. One other place to replace the airlock is on the ehrlenmyer flask for yeast propagation... aluminum foil has worked flawlessly and allows beneficial agitation. Anyone know of any soaks that allow beerstone to be rinsed out of the carboy? Fred Nolke - Anchorage, Alaska Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:31:57 -0600 (CST) From: mwmccaw at ix.netcom.com Subject: CO2 volumes Here's one for the collective to ponder: Do volumes of CO2 dissolved in a beer represent volumes at STP (0 deg C and 1000 milibars of pressure), or do they represent volumes at equilibrium pressure? It would make a heck of a difference in the mass of CO2 dissolved. Anyone know the answer? Thanks in advance, Mike McCaw A long way due West of Jeff Renner in Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 05:05:13 -0500 From: Ray Kruse <kruse2 at flash.net> Subject: Valley Mill Gap Measurement Kyle Druey writes that he uses wire sizes to measure his Valley Mill roller gap. Not a bad idea, but what about using a spark plug feeler gauge. You can measure the gap exactly, and don't need to interpret any tables. Ray Kruse Glen Burnie, PRMd rkruse at bigfoot.com "Those are my principles! If you don't like them, I have others." Groucho Marx Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 06:55:20 -0500 From: "R.Lewis" <brew at homebrewbeer.com> Subject: Brew Contests Can anybody let me know of any brew contests in the near or not so near future in the New York and New England region. I'd appreciate an e-mail with information,or you can send info to: Hudson River Brew Club,413 River st. Troy,N.Y. 12180 or call 1-888-499-BEER. We have quite a few people looking to enter some real good brews,but my e-mails to a few places have gone unanswered and havn't recieved any info. Thanks and Happy Holidays Randy Randy Lewis "If you can Boil,You can brew" http://www.homebrewbeer.com Hudson River Homebrewbeer Supplies Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 07:30:01 EST From: DGofus <DGofus at aol.com> Subject: Hempen Ale Has anyone tasted the new brew called Hempen Ale? I was over at a non hombrewing friends house and he offered me one. Not bad. Tasty, seems a bit"spicy", could this be from the hemp seeds or from hops(what hops?). Also, if one partakes in this brew and happens to have to take a drug test for employment would this foul up an otherwise clear test? Also I am looking for a recipe that duplicates some of the Canadian beers (Labatts Blue). I understand that they are pilsners but need some help and guidance. TIA Private E-mail OK Dgofus at aol.com Bob Fesmire The Madman Brewery Pottstown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 07:19:22 -0600 (CST) From: Steve <JOHNSONS at uansv5.Vanderbilt.Edu> Subject: Triple Bock In HBD #2589, Scott Moore talks about Sam Adams Triple Bock as being "sickenly sweet, no hop balance, and undercarbonated." I agree that when you taste this for the first time, it comes off as being something very far removed from any malt beverage any of us would choose to drink, let alone brew! However, like many strong ales and barleywines, I suspect that this beverage may be better with some age on it, and probably benefits greatly from some cellaring. For those of us in the Southeast, the Southern Draft Brew News had an excellent article by their editor, Sara Doersam, in the most recent issue (Vol. 5/No. 2; Dec. '97/Jan.'98) about this topic. As the line under the headline states, "Certain strong beers are ideally suited to saving for months - or years - to come. She included a nice list along with the article and among these were: Thomas Hardy's Ale, Traquair House Ale, Old Foghorn Barley Wine by Anchor, and....Sam Adams Triple Bock, to name a few. Some of these may be best after as many as 3 to 5 years after they are stored properly. Some tips that were listed: Realize that laying down a beer is like playing craps...there is no guanrantee that each beer will be a winner, so immprove your chances by stacking the odds in your favor. Best bets are beers that are high in alcohol, high in hops, smoked, or a combination; cellar beers in a dark, cool place with temps from 50-65 F with minimal fluctuation or disruption; buy your beer from a reputable beer merchant to ensure that it's in good condition when you get it; taste your beers periodically, and if you suspect any may be getting worse instead of better, drink them as soon as possible! Of course, all of this takes some real patience and extra space, something that many of us in this hobby are lacking on both counts! ;) Steve Johnson Music City Brewers Nashville, TN....somewhere south of Jeff Renner Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:31:58 -0500 From: MacRae Kevin J <kmacrae at UF2269P01.PeachtreeCityGA.NCR.COM> Subject: Roller Wear... >>That is the reason we offer a gear drive option to actively >>drive the second roller for the heavy user. Roller wear is >>subtle and long before total failure, the efficency and >>throughput slowly drop off. I'm about 6'2" 205 - 215lbs. Does this classify me as a "Heavy Brewer"? Where can I find the new line of "Roller Wear"? It's not at Sears, Home Depot or any of the Big and Tall Men Shops nearby. I do agree with the point of efficency and throughput dropping off, if only slightly. We can't remain teenagers forever. But I know of folks in their 60's and 70's who haven't yet experienced Total Failure. Kevin MacRae Fluffhead Peachtree City, GA (just south of the 1996 Summer Olympic Games) USA Planet Earth On tap: Bavarian Lager & Irish Ale Fermenting: 10 gal Chocolate Porter. "Wake up, Have a Homebrew, Don't Worry" -myself Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:06:33 -0600 From: Randy Lee <rjlee at imation.com> Subject: Anheuser-Busch: Brewer Perspective John Sullivan wrote (amongst other things): >> My opinion is that A-B does a great job for its stockholders and makes the finest American Lagers in America. Competitive market practices are constantly under scrutiny and subject to judgement under our legal system. Conspiracy theories anyone? The real problem here is that we just prefer not to drink their beer.<< I think that you miss the mark slightly. Yes there are strong opinions contained in this digest about the "goodness" of A-B beer. For the record I would like to point out that A-B does a tremendous job of production (from a manufacturing point of view) of their product. It is terribly difficult to brew this style of beer across the country to the *same* standards year after year. Let there be no mistake in that; they do a great job at it. As for best beer in their class, I would like to point out that there are better beers IMO in that class from several regionals (like Huber). What we (craft brewers) object to is tactics that are border line legal and plain illegal that A-B and their distributors do: point: The whole 100% mind share thing is an issue of anti-trust. I think that it would be a fine point of law to determine otherwise; it certainly is in spirit (and design). point: Slotting is illegal but goes on. So does free (or below cost) stuff to bar owners (illegal also). Lots of shady things like that *can* be done by the big boys that the little guys can't do because of budget. If left unchecked in the courts, the little brewer (yea, even the regional) will have no place to market or distribution channels to get to market their beer. The consumer will *not be allowed to* have choice. It isn't that A-B can afford neon and I can't. I can cope with that. Well I'll grumble about it anyway. It's that I can't get the time of day from an A-B distributor or that they just dropped in a nearly no cost tap system to some bar and that endears them to a tap slot that I can't get. This is one of those instances where the "free market" people are full of it. The free market only works when there *is* a free market and the practices of late of A-B are absolutely anti free market. Their only way to compete against the craft industry is to take the industrial revolution baron approach and squash competition, not based on consumer anything, but based on tactic. This fine distinction is what earns them my single digit vote. Not that they sell a style that I don't like. Not that they own so much of the market. It's that they like to play bully and throw their weight around a lot. Never could stand people like that even if they are filthy rich like Augie. Randy Lee Viking Brewing Company Dallas, Wi. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 10:22:54 EST From: Pat Lohmann <pat at ale.whoi.edu> Subject: Re: Maris Otter problems? content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii mime-version:1.0 On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:17:07 EST, SClaus4688 <SClaus4688 at aol.com> wrote: "The suggestion that Marris-Otter can cause stuck sparges is once again popping up in HBD posts. I thought I'd provide a data point in defense of this excellent malt. A couple years ago, through very happy coincidence, I acquired about 300 pounds of Marris-Otter from Beeston Malting Company for next to nothing. I used it exclusively for about a year in both single and multiple temperature infusion mashes. My mash/lauter tun has a perforated SS false bottom and I usually do a 167f mash out. I NEVER had a stuck sparge with it or even a slow sparge." I've never had a stuck or slow sparge with Maris Otter malt either. I crush with a MaltMill, use a RIMS with a perforated SS false bottom, mash ~30# of malt at ~151F, and usually mash out at 168F. *But* there is something very different about the Maris Otter from Crisp Maltings. During mash in it "balls up" much more than any other malt I've ever used. Could whatever causes this result in sparging problems with certain mash/lauter systems? Pat Lohmann Woods Hole MA Return to table of contents
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