---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  cleaning, sanitation, clinitest, plastics (Jim Liddil)
  CAP question, southern brewing pole (watts)
  Lactose as sweetener?; W2308 habits (Barry Browne)
  Hops Direct (Chris Dodge)
  Lactobacillus Infection and Printed Caps (Meliora & Drake)
  Barrel o' Dunkel - Part 2 (Charles Burns)
  Corn, Roller Spacing, Breakthrough (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Exploding Bottles (Spencer W Thomas)
  RIMS Element Removal for Cleaning (Kyle Druey)
  Storing grain (Randy Ricchi)
  War of the Worts (Alan Folsom)
  Re: Roller Mill Gap Settings (dfikar)
  Shipping Beer from Europe (Michael Fladeland)
  Buena Noche Thread (Mark Weaver)
  Coors (Jack Schmidling)
  Old barrel reconditioning ("Arnold J. Neitzke")
  Munich malt and Altbier ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  death by bleach.... (Lou Heavner)
  LA/NA  BS,Drrry Stout, capturing the wild yeast ("David R. Burley")
  RIMS and such (SCRIT)
  No carbonation (Jennifer & Michael Miles)



Happy Holidays!

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Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:38:03 -0000
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: cleaning, sanitation, clinitest, plastics

The clinitest discussion is an interesting one.  But I think some basic 
things have been lost in the general discussion.  A hydrometer and the 
clinitest are tools that can be sued to evaluate the state of your beer. 
 Along with these tools we can also use our experience and our senses.  A 
hydrometer should be calibrated once in a while since I know more than one 
person who has had what he thought were problems with fermentation.  Also 
the clinitest should ideally have a set of positive and negative controls 
included in the kit, even if it is an FDA approved test kit.  We can use 
our sense of taste to figure out if a beer is fermenting correctly.  I do 
this when I use my hydrometer along with a glucose test kit.  All these 
methods provide data.  the more data the better.

Plastics, cleaning and sanitation have come up lately.  First WRT glass 
anyone who has worked in a lab with proteins knows how tenaciously they 
bind to glass.  As a datapoint our lab media bottles are cleaned in a 
dishwasher which has a spray jet the each bottle is placed on to.  After 
the dishwashing cycle they are then autoclaved, so they are sterile.  Being 
an Anal Chemist at heart I still have our students treat all the bottles 
once or twice a year with chromic acid solution ( mixture of potassium 
chromate and sulfuric acid).  Every time we find at least a few bottles the 
still turn the acid from orange to green indicating organic matter is in 
the bottle.  this is for bottles that are right from the dishwasher. I have 
to constantly remind our students that things have to be clean before 
autoclaving. The are not the same.  After all I can autoclave feces and 
then it is sterile.

All the discussion of sanitation has failed to address the issue of making 
sure the surface is really clean before any sanitation is to occur.  And 
with the high organic load of brewing you really have to use some strong 
cleaners to get the grunge off.  We also have to deal with things like 
calcium deposits of one sort or another that can also trap dirt or provide 
hiding places for microorganisms.

Jeff Renner told us about his pump woes. I don't use such a pump but as I 
recall these pumps have the outlet restricted.  It's no wonder there is all 
kinds of gunk inside these things.  Beer wort even  when it is clear is 
loaded with suspended solids.  CIP is for big guys who need to make money 
and don't have time or can't be convinced take things apart and clean them. 
 My advice is to take it apart each time. Or you can use PBW or whatever 
and then follow that with an acid rinse to dissolve all the Ca and Mg 
salts.

George DePiro mentioned the article by John Palmer and myself.  I wrote all 
the info on sanitation and thus feel qualified to comment :-)  The 
concentrations and times I presented are either from "Disinfection , 
Sterilization and Preservation" or from discussions with people at Clorox 
and a couple of companies that make sanitizers and disinfectants as well as 
the guy who actually developed current iodophor formulations.  These data 
are based on AOAC testing, which is the organization that covers all 
testing methodology for these agents.  In order for an agent to be 
registered with the FDA, USDA etc. it must pass the given test.  Products 
like One-Step (TM) can not be labeled as sanitizers because they are not 
registered with the US Gov't as such.  From our article:

>The most common terms used by homebrewers are sanitize and sanitizer. In 
general. >sanitize means to use an agent to reduce theca number of 
microorganisms to safe levels. >One official definition states that a 
sanitizer must kill 99.999 percent of the specific test >microorganism in 
30 seconds (2). It is generally acknowledged that 90 percent of the 
>sanitizing process is the physical cleaning of surfaces and the other 10 
percent involves the >use of a sanitizing agent (3). The focus of this 
article will be interpreting these definitions as >they pertain to 
homebrewing.

>To simplify matters we will talk primarily about cleaning and sanitizing 
agents. how to use
>them and how they can affect our brewing equipment. Some of the chemical 
agents >mentioned may also be disinfectants but we will refer to all of 
them as sanitizers to avoid >confusion.

>All sanitizers mentioned in this article are meant to be used on clean 
surfaces. Their ability to
>kill microorganisms is reduced by the presence of dirt, grime or organic 
material present on
>the surface being sanitized. These organic deposits can harbor bacteria 
and shield the
>equipment from being reached by the sanitizer. So it is up to you to make 
sure the surface >of the item to be sanitized is as clean as possible. This 
may require a certain amount of
>scrubbing, brushing and elbow grease. but remember that a dirty surface 
can never be a
>sanitized one.


WRT to bleach I have corresponded with Dave Burley and I'm sure he will 
provide more data on what is in a bleach solution.  For instructions on how 
to use bleach to sanitize, disinfect and clean check out the clorox site 
(www.clorox.com).   Again sanitize and disinfect are essentially legal 
terminology.  I favor using strong cleaning agents like 10% bleach (the 
current CDC recommended conc. for blood disinfection), or any number of 
other cleaners (PBW, autodishwasher detergent, alconox etc.)  I also 
usually acid rinse all the equipment.  BTW I brew in nothing but plastic. 
 I am doing a little test of plastic and how well it can be disinfected 
etc.  I'll provide data (limited as it may be) in a few more days.

Jim

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:05:23 +0000
From: watts at top.net
Subject: CAP question, southern brewing pole

Oh great brewing collective,

Has anyone tried a partial grain CAP?  I know that I should just take 
the plunge to all grain, but the time and $$ for equipment just ain't 
there.  Private email is fine, I'll post if there's any interest.

Now that Jeff Renner has been established as the Northern Brewing 
Pole, we need a Southern Pole so we can get started on the 
HomeBrewers Globe. :>

TIA
John Watts
watts at top.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:26:37 -0800
From: BBrowne at golder.com (Barry Browne)
Subject: Lactose as sweetener?; W2308 habits

  Brewlings,
  
  I recently brewed one of my standard beers, a specialty with rye, using a 
  different mashing schedule to lower the FG to better balance the beer (it 
  was a bit too sweet).  Well it worked and I got an FG of 1.012 rather than 
  the usual 1.017.  It now seems that I overdid the 60C rest and wish this 
  beer had just a bit more residual sweetness.  Now I'm thinking about a way 
  to add a bit of sweetness to this kegged beer without causing additional 
  fermentation.  Artificial sweeteners are a choice but not one I'm willing 
  to select.  So my brewing mind wends it's way to lactose, the 
  unfermentable but not so sweet sugar that has purportedly been used 
  historically in sweet (milk) stouts.  What I'm asking of the collective is 
  comments on this application for lactose and a recommended dosage rate.  I 
  would be adding it to corny kegs so it will be easy to do.
  
  I brewed only the second lager of my career, a doppelbock, which is 
  fermenting apparently happily at 50F with W2308 Munich lager yeast.  Wow 
  talk about H2S!!!  Anyway, this yeast has a rep for being "moody" so I'm 
  trying to do things just right to minimize the chance of having this yeast 
  get pissed off at me and play tricks on my doppelbock, an all-grain OG 
  1.082 beauty.  The references I've read indicate that this yeast should be 
  kept at 50F for about a week before being racked to secondaries, then the 
  temp should be lowered to 35F for an 8 week lagering period.  Books and 
  magazines are great but the HBD is better for advice.  The questions 
  pertaining to W2308 are:
  1.  What apparent attenuation (or fraction of expected final AA) should I 
  look for before dropping the temp to lager?
  2.  Any ideal lager temp. 0C, 1C, 2C, etc?
  3.  When during the process should I conduct the diacetyl rest and what 
  strategy is recommended?
  4.  The primary ferment has shown a pretty sizable krausen, will this 
  "drop" into the beer at the onset of secondary ferment as would a S. 
  cerevisiae strain?
  5.  Any other advice that a seasoned ale brewer could use when brewing a 
  lager.
  
  Many thanks for your advice.
  
  Barry Browne
  Atlanta, GA

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:08:13 -0500
From: Chris Dodge <cdodge at ptc.com>
Subject: Hops Direct

If any of you are looking to buy hops you may want to take a look at
a new distributer, Hops Direct www.hopsdirect.com.  They are a hops farm
in Washington state that has now setup a way homebrewers can order
directly from them.

The prices are very very good.  They were very helpful and accomidating
when I placed my order.  Check out thier web page or call and ask
for Dianna, (509) 837-3616, she was very helpful.  They are also listed
as a supplier in Washington in the Brewerys
http://realbeer.com/brewery/infobase/supplierlist/SupplierList.html
supplier list under Puterbaugh Farms Hops Direct.

Sorry if this seems like an add, but I was very impressed with them and
thought I would let everyone in on what seems to be a great way to get
the freshest hops.

Chris

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:18:22 +1100
From: Meliora & Drake <meliora at macquarie.matra.com.au>
Subject: Lactobacillus Infection and Printed Caps

Hi all,

I have a Weizenbier that has developed some odd symptoms while settling:

1)  A slight cloudy appearance
2)  A faint white scum on the surface of the brew, more pronounced where there
        are bubbles on the surface.
3)  A slight musty smell, a bitter/sour taste reminicent of Brussel Sprouts.

Is this a lactobacillus infection, some other infection or something else?

Also,  are there any companies that will make up Crown Caps with your own design
printed on top and kinds of price / quantity are we looking at?

Cheers,


Drake Morgan,
Australia.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 12:37 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Barrel o' Dunkel - Part 2

While the decoct was boiling we heated up about 30 gallons of sparge water. 
Nobody paid any attention to the temperature. We boiled it in 3 kettles 
(removing city water chlorine) and let it cool a bit before the sparge 
started. Estimated temperature was about 190F (my opinion).

Getting the sparge water into the 15 gallon sparge water vessel was 
interesting. It was perched on top of another plastic milk carton, looking a 
lot like the tower of Pisa (leaning a bit). We (actually them, I've got a 
back that prevents this type of activity thank goodness) poured about 4 
gallons at a time from the 15 gallon kettles into an 8 gallon pot that was 
raised overhead as far as we could reach and then dumped into the sparge 
water vessel. Right, you could not see the water level in the hot liqour 
tank without jumping. You had to be there...

This is when we discovered Dave's assurance about not needing to stir the 
decoction wasn't quite accurate. We had about an 8 inch circle of very black 
and very crusty carbon stuck on the bottom of the decoct kette. Ended up 
using some fairly coarse grit sandpaper and a ton of elbow grease to  to 
remove it.

After recirculating about 4 gallons the wort began to run clear. And then it 
nearly stopped. Uh oh. 70 lbs of grain and a stuck sparge. Never fear says 
Dave the Dangerous brewer. He sticks that nozzle from the hot water tank 
into the output hoze from the mash tun and blasts hot water in under the 
mash in an attempt to float the grains. Several times. Eventually we 
disconnected the valve from the runoff hose (it was sucking air) and got the 
sparge to at least trickle off. Took about 2+ hours to complete the sparge. 
Good thing too, because we were all hungry and needed some food and time to 
eat it. Ended up with take out mexican tacos, burritos and some other stuff 
I cannot pronounce, but all really delicious.

We ran the wort off into 3 kettles, about 12 gallons in each with about 3 
gallons left over in spare pot. One of the kettles was quite a bit lower in 
sugar than the other two. Our plan was to put a "T" in the sparge runoff but 
it was so slow we just tried moving the runoff hose from kettle to kettle. 
It was a beautifully clear, deep ruby red wort by the time we finally 
finished the sparge. My kettle was the light one and as it boiled down, we 
fed it from the left overs. 3 different kettle shapes and 3 different types 
of burners. The kettle I was working boiled long before the others, even 
though I think the BTU rating on that burner was lower. Interesting data 
point, my kettle was wider than the others (different style keg).

We hopped the 3 kettles pretty much the same. Boiled for 15-20 minutes, 
added 80 grams of Spalter (4.6%AA) for a 60-70 minute boil. Dave uses only 
whole hops, the rest of us used pellets. The dangerous brewer brought out 
his pre-chiller, ice and a hammer and start wanging away with ice chips 
flying all over the place. I had a chiller with me so we chilled each kettle 
with two chillers and got them all down to pitching temp in about 20 minutes 
each.

As we cleaned the mashtun we found that most of the dark grains had all 
collected in a pocket at the edge of the mashtun. Thus the reason we have a 
ruby-red dunkel instead of a dark brown one. Its a pretty wort, just a bit 
out of style for color. Somebody remarked "you can't taste color, who 
cares". And the wort did taste wonderful. Every kettle ended up right around 
1.060 OG - a fairly big Dunkel.

I pitched about 12 ounces of Munich Wyeast 2308,  in a glass 6.5 gallon 
carboy, the others used 2 each 15 gallon stainless kegs and one 15 gallon 
open fermenter. All added up we had about 33 gallons of finished wort. Dave 
and Brian's used 34/70 which I think Dave said was the same as Wyeast 2278 - 
Czech Pils yeast. Mine is at 54F today, Brian's at 45F and I think Dave said 
he'd leave his out on the patio for awhile - anywhere from 34F to 56F lately 
around here.

Man was that fun. We finished up around 6:30 pm (about 2 hours later than we 
had expected), all of us tired and ready for another beer. I want to thank 
Dave for a great opportunity to participate in this landmark homebrewing 
event. What a blast it was and a great way to spend a holiday weekend. Give 
us a couple of months and we'll be taste comparing to see which 
yeast/ferment conditions did the best.

Grist for 1 barrel of Dave's Dunkel:

22.5 kg DWC Munich, about 8L
7 kg Crisp Lager malt, about 1.8L
 .5 kg lb 100L Crystal
 .4 kg Special B, about 150L
 .2 kg Black Patent

240 gm Spalter  at  4.6 AA for 60-70 minutes.



Charley (1,970 miles west of Jeff Renner) in N.Cal


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:15:35 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Corn, Roller Spacing, Breakthrough

From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Organic corn meal and flakes cost


"But make sure it's degermed, not whole corn meal.  The organic stuff we get
here is whole meal, which makes great corn muffins, but contains far too
much oil for brewing (although Jack Schmidling uses whole cracked corn
without complaining).

Thanks for pointing out my variance from the dogma but I would be curious
to know where this one comes from.  Commercial brewers use corn by the
train load and I would be very surprised if they degerm it.


""     Why is flaked maize so damn expensive to homebrewers, anyway?  It
""    costs more than imported Pilsner and Munich malt!

"A data point - the wholesale price for 25 lb. bags of Briess flaked maize
just dropped nearly 50% here...

You forgot to tell us where that leaves us but I suspect it is a long way
from the $10 or less for a 50 lb bag of whole corn and also did not answer
the question.

The reason it is so expensive is because people are willing to pay the price
and it is a lazy man's product which is always assumed to cost more than
doing things the hard way.

From: Kyle Druey <kdldmd at lightspeed.net>
Subject: How to Use Gap Spacing / MM Pricing Strategy 

"I can recommend what works for me when doing a RIMS mash....

Say no more.  Next....

But while on the subject, this just seems to me like another strike
against RIMS.... in my opinion.. an overly complicated and expensive
way to do something that is otherwise rather simple and easy.

"  Looks like the MM and the VM both have similar variable gap spacing 
tolerances built into their production....

Nothing on earth can be made without tolerance but I don't understand
the significance of the statement with regard to an adjustable mill.
The home position is set and calibrated to be the same spacing (within the
tolerance) as the fixed mill.  What you do when you change the spacing,
the manufacturer can not be responsible for.

The tolerance BTW, is on the order of .005".  So they are all the same
within that limit and no hombrewer could possibly detect any difference
in the crush of the same malt in mills within that tolerance.

The problem I pointed out was that not even god knows what the spacing
is because he did not tell us how deal with the peaks and valleys when
measuring it.

"Now I find out that if JS (can't remember which HBD he recently
posted this) wants to he could sell direct and undercut Listerman (this
would be less than $75).  Why don't you do this (duh, fat profit
margins)?....

You seem to have missed the point.  That happens to be
about the wholesale price, i.e what the retailers pay for them.  
If I sold them directly for that price, no dealer would talk to me 
and you would not find them sitting on their shelves all over the
world.  A very comforting feeling, no matter whom you by it from.

"More of us would then purchase your product.....

Actually, far fewer of youse would purchase them because you would
not find them in your neighborhood store.

Besides, if everyone bought one,  we would have nothing to argue about 
and the Digest would be far less interesting as a result.

" Just think, I could have been a MM owner right now if you had 
adopted this pricing stategy....

Not unless you happened to stumble into my web page or had seen
my tiny little ad in the magazines.  As I said, 99% of our 
business is through retailers.  When I decide to "retire" again
and wind it down, I might just take your advice. 

" and you could be getting all this free advertising in the HBD.

God (that's me) operates in mysterious ways.

"Instead, I purchased Valley Brewing's exceptional adjustable roller mill
product and am singing the praises of the Valley Mill!

That can only mean you are happy and the sole purpose of my
existance is to make sure that everyone is happy.

"HBDers: Don't forget to tune into the Rose Bowl, pour a homebrew, and
watch a fine example of west coast football demonstrated by the
Washington State Cougars.....

Can we shut it off after the parade or do we have to watch the game too?

From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Nitrogen/CO2


"2) In the sparklers and other devices, however, nitrogen/CO2 is
mixed with properly carbonated beer such that the nitrogen gets
into the *foam* ( not the beer). This is known as "breakthrough"  =

Oh boy!   Another buzzword!

"Being less soluble in the beer, unable to pass through the bubble
wall and therefore trapped in the foam bubble, the nitrogen does
support the foam for a lot longer than if the foam were pure CO2.

Well, all I can say is this is why I still read the HBD.  This
is either heigher tech than I can handle or I got sucked into
a joke.  Are you talking about beer or Charlie on the MTA.

"In the breakthough process,  the CO2 carbonation is largely purged
from the body of the beer. =

Come on now, this is a joke right?  I am never too old to learn but
I am tool old to waste my energy of practical jokes.

js

- -- 
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp
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             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday



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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 00:30:53 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Exploding Bottles 

Pat,

I agree with everything you say, but there is something you didn't
say.

If an underfilled bottle bursts, it is more dangerous than an
overfilled bottle bursting, because there is a larger volume of
compressed gas to drive those shards of glass away from the center of
expansion.  

If you've got 10ml of gas at 5atm and your bottle fails, the gas
expands to 50ml ("clunk").  If you've got 100ml of gas at 5atm and the
bottle fails, the gas expands to 500ml ("bang").  And if there's no
gas, the bottle will quietly break with almost no dispersion of
fragments.  

This is why gas cylinders are hydro-tested instead of testing them
with pressurized gas.  In the first case, you get a split cylinder with
some water running out (assuming an efficient check valve in the test
equipment).  In the second case, you get a really nasty bomb or
torpedo. 

But you knew that.

=Spencer

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:40:43 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <kdldmd at lightspeed.net>
Subject: RIMS Element Removal for Cleaning

If you don't care about RIMS then you might want to page down now.

In a recent post Jeff Renner explains the need to clean his pump.  I 
think this is advice that should be headed, and is also applicable to a 
RIMS heating element.  There was a thread on this about a year or so ago, 
but I blew it off, thinking that these beer geeks were being just too 
anal retentive.  Was I ever wrong!  I am now a converted anal retentive 
beer geek now using the 63rd edition of the CRC Handbook.

Several months ago a foul stench began to fill the area in my house where 
I store my brewing equipment (corresponded with peak 110 F summer time 
temps here in the great San Joaquin Valley).  I finally traced the odor 
to my RIMS heating chamber, removed the element, and was appalled at the 
black and green fuzzy growth on about 1/4 of the element sheath.  From 
that time on, I removed my heating element after every batch and cleaned 
it.  There is always some kind of tan spongy crap to clean off after the 
brew session.  I know some of you report that the element is always clean 
and you never have problems, I hope this continues for you, if you're not 
so sure then read on.  

The main point of this post is how to incorporate in your system design 
an easy way to disassemble your RIMS heating element so that it can be 
cleaned after every brew session.  Off the shelf RIMS equipment may not 
have this as a design feature.  To investigate a solution to this 
mind boggling matter I consulted the RIMS doctor, Mr. Dion Hollenbeck.  
As expected, Dion was ever gracious and had the answer, and with his 
usual elaborate detail.  With his permission I post his response to me 
from our private email correspondence:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                         RIMS heater element bushing selection.
 
 To get the correct fit of a RIMS heater element into a threaded
 bushing (or any other pipe thread), you need some knowledge of the
 threads and you need to pick the threaded part carefully.  Armed with
 this knowledge, the task is simple.
 
 In my estiamation, anyone who does not remove their RIMS heater
 element after every brew is asking for trouble.  Unless you use CIP
 (Clean In Place) procedures with highly corrosive chemicals, the
 element needs to be removed and cleaned with a soft bristle brush and
 hot water to remove the layer of biege goop that collects on it from
 the grain.  If this is allowed to remain, you risk the chance that it
 will rot and spoil your next batch.  This is not idle theory, but in
 fact happened to me before I realized the necessity of disassembly,
 cleaning and thorough drying after every batch.
 
 Regarding pipe threads, there are two pieces of information
 necessary.  A standard 1.5" x 1" reducing bushing has internal threads
 of 1" by 11tpi.  These threads are NPT (National Pipe Taper) and as
 the name implies, are tapered.  All manufacturing processes have
 tolerances, and during its manufacture, the bushing may have landed on
 one end or other of the tolerance limits.  Water heater elements
 utilize 1" x 11tpi NPS (National Pipe Straight) threads.  Tapered
 threads produce their sealing action when the tapered male thread is
 forced into the tapered female thread and the harder they are screwed
 together, the tighter the threads mesh.  Straight threads have no self
 sealing action and are generally provided with a rubber gasket to
 accomplish liquid sealing properties.  In all other respects, the
 straight and the tapered threads are compatible.
 
 When you attempt to mate the heater element with straight threads into
 the pipe fitting with tapered threads, it is important to hand select
 a fitting which will allow a seal to be created.  If the fitting is on
 the low end of the manufacturer's tolerances, in other words, the tap
 which created the threads was not driven in fully, chances are very
 good that the straight threads of the heater will bind in the tapered
 threads of the fitting before the rubber gasket makes a liquid tight
 seal.
 
 What you need to do when you buy the bushing into which the heater
 screws is to take the heater with you.  Try every bushing they have
 until you find one that will allow you to screw the heater into it BY
 HAND until the rubber gasket on the heater comes in contact with the
 bushing face.  With this kind of fit, you can hand tighten the heater,
 then use a wrench to apply one more quarter turn, providing a liquid
 tight seal without any kind of teflon tape, pipe dope, or cranking
 down hard on the threads.  In this manner, you can easily remove the
 element after every brew for cleaning.  It only takes me about 30
 seconds to completely dismantle my pump from the heater chamber,
 remove the two temperature probes and the heater element.
________________________________________________________________________ 
     

As with all his stuff, I was very impressed with his treatise on bushing 
selection and thought the collective would benefit from it.  Of course, I 
did not head his advice and had to come up with a more expensive solution 
8>).  I purchased a 1" brass quick disconnect fitting.  The male end was 
attached to the element and the female end was attached to the heating 
chamber.  All I have to do is just plug/unplug the element for use or 
removal.  The brass QD fittings get very hot at the end of the mash when 
you want to remove them.  Wrap a few turns of electrical tape around them 
so that they can be gripped for removal.  One disadvantage to my approach 
is that it adds about 2" extra dead space at the end of the heating 
chamber.  I had to drill and tap a small port near the highest point on 
the male 1" QD fitting, insert a screw, and turn it out to relieve the 
trapped air.

Don't forget to sip some homebrew this saturday and watch the Niners send 
off Dennis Green to his welcoming party with Jerry and the Boys in 
Dallas.  Go Forty F'in Niners!


Kyle Druey 
brewing in Bakersfield, CA, about 60 degrees F warmer than Jeff and 
playing golf in December

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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 06:47:54 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Storing grain

Tim Lowell is wondering about storing his grain in plastic buckets.  I just
keep mine in the bag it comes in. Even the paper sacks are lined with
plastic; I just twist the top down until it's tight on the grain, and then
tie it in place with a piece of rope.  I keep my grain in my basement
(which is 55-70 deg F and only slightly damp) and have kept grain for more
than a year with no problem.
Randy Ricchi
Fed. Witness Protection Program Relocatee
Hancock, Michigan
 ...Doh!

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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:30:06 -0600 (CST)
From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom)
Subject: War of the Worts

This will (probably) be my last call for entries, and
plea for judges for the War of the Worts contest, on 
January 17th.   We are in Lahaska, Pennsylvania, on
Rt 202 in Bucks County, about 5 miles from New Jersey.
The contest will again be held at the Buckingham Mountain
Brewery and Restaurant, who have been excellent hosts 
to us in the past two years.

There is still time for me to mail entry forms.  Requests
to:  folsom at ix.netcom.com

Judges and stewards should contact our Judge Coordinator,
Nate Brese, at:  rahneb at rohmhaas.com.  Note that this is 
a correction, if you sent mail to the address posted earlier,
or to the one on the flyer, it probably didn't reach Nate.
(oops).

We are hoping to top last year's 333 entries, and fill the 
expanded and improved facilities at Buckingham Mountain with
judges!

Cheers,

Al Folsom

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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:32:31 -0600 (CST)
From: dfikar at flash.net
Subject: Re: Roller Mill Gap Settings


>Roller Mill Gap Settings (MED)" <Frederick.Wills at amermsx.med.ge.com>
>
>WRT the discussion on mill roller spacing...
>
>I too am an (happy) owner of a Valley Mill.  Unlike some other
>contributors that use the coarsest settings (so as to prevent damage to
>the husks)  I have been using the narrowest few settings depending on
>the grain type being crushed with good results.  
>
>It is my understanding that the main disadvantage to damaging the husks
>was the potential of a stuck mash due to inadequate filtration material
>integrity in the grain bed.  Since I have never had a stuck mash (stuck
>lauter actually) doesn't the point become moot?
>
Another consideration is excess tannin extraction.  The greater
the fragmentation the greater the chances of extraction of unwanted compounds
from the husk.  I find that I get efficiencies in the mid 80's with the second
coarsest setting on my VM with minimal damage to the husk.  I'd rather accept
a slightly lower efficiency rather than risk getting unwanted compounds in
my beer.
- ---------------------------------------------
Dean Fikar - Ft. Worth, TX (dfikar at flash.net)


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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:41:08 -0500
From: mfladeland at phoenixint.com (Michael Fladeland)
Subject: Shipping Beer from Europe

I will be traveling to Belgium in mid-January and would appreciate any 
advice on shipping beer back to myself from abroad.  Since I live in 
Florida where our wonderful laws do not allow the sale of beer in metric 
measurements (thank you AB lobbyists) or even ordering beer from out of 
state, it's a great opportunity to obtain some tasty Belgian ales.  Any 
tips on procuring and shipping from  any good bottle shops in and around 
Brussels would be greatly appreciated.


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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:44:44 -0500
From: Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com>
Subject: Buena Noche Thread

To the Gentleman (or woman) who sent me a
rather long e-mail regarding the metallic
flavour in Buena Noche about a month ago:

I am sorry that I did not respond, I received
the e-mail, upgraded to NetScrape 4.0, and
it had the nerve to erase it... could you please
send it again?

TIA!
Mark
- --
HeadBrewer at eci.com
75 '02 / 72tii
"No... I don't brew heads...."
Recipes page:   http://markweaver.com2tom.com/home.html
Resume:  http://markweaver.com2tom.com





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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:34:29 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Coors

From: Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com>
Subject: Coors Light Recipe?

"I have a friend who (I am begging forgiveness even before
I mention the name of the beer) likes Coors Light....

My mother would wash our mouths out with a bar of soap for 
saying things like that.

"I know the Grist Bill calls for corn and rice, but
don't know the percentage they represent, nor the hopping
profile, O.G. or if it is 6 Row or 2 Row? Any specialty malts?

Just about any combination of stuff will work but real corn
would be overdoing it.  They use corn syrup and Caro is
a good option.  You don't need to bother with the malt if
you use enough of it.

The most important ingredient that seperates Coors (and all
the rest) is water, as in Rocky Mountain Spring water. Use
lots of it, just before bottling.

Remember, after you have made the sleaziest beer you can,
you end up with what they call "beer concentrate" to which
you must add ample quantities of water, then force carbonate.

"Thanks for all your help.....

Who needs help like this?

js

- -- 
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp
                        Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf
             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday


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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:46:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Arnold J. Neitzke" <neitzkea at frc.com>
Subject: Old barrel reconditioning

A buddy of mine has inherited several old wisky barrels from his 
grandfarther.  His grandfather used thes barrels to ferment wine.

Unfortunatly the barrels were not well cared for, before he recieved them,
a couple of them are slightly rotted and are no longer useful, however
some of them look pretty good but have mold growing in and around the bung
holes. 

Does any body have a suggestion on how to clean these barrels, to put 
them back into service?

Private e-mail please, since this isn't strictly beer related, thanks.

_________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke     Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com
Brighton, Mi          CEO of the NightSky brewing Company
- ---------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:59:32 -0800
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com>
Subject: Munich malt and Altbier

Greetings all...I am planning on brewing up an altbier in the next few
days, and was pondering malt choice.  I was planning on using almost
100% munich malt (maybe a little aromatic and caravienne as well), as I
have read good things about it as a base malt for this style.  However,
I have also heard that using more than 25 - 50% munich can lead to
"flavor problems", although just what these might be was not elaborated.
Anybody have any ideas?  Also, I wondered if anyone had any opinions
about the difference between DWC and Weyermann munich malts.  Any input
would be appreciated, 

Mark Tomusiak
Boulder, Colorado

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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:54:23 -0600
From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner)
Subject: death by bleach....

     Trying to make sense of the discussions on sodium hypochlorite 
     solutions.  Yes I once worked in a process that used both hypochlorous 
     acid (HOCl) and sodium Hypochlorite (NaOCl) as reagents.  We produced 
     our own by bubbling Cl2 gas in water (closed system so Cl2 fumes were 
     not a problem, but excess Cl2 was controlled) and later reacting with 
     caustic soda (NaOH at about 12% as I recall).  Chlorine will react 
     with water to produce HCl and HOCl.  Addition of NaOH will neutralize 
     the HCl producing NaCl (table salt). Additional NaOH will react with 
     the HOCl to yield NaOCl.  I think the pH for a solution with 
     essentially no HCl or NaOCL is about 5 or 5.5.  Below that, you have 
     HCl and possibly free chlorine gas.  As more caustic is added, pH 
     risesand HCl then HOCl disappear.  I think that most bleach (and many 
     drain cleaners like liquid plummer) contain about 6% excess NaOH.  
     Everybody essentially reacts Cl2 with 12% caustic until there is 6% 
     excess caustic remaining.  So the first point is save your money and 
     buy the generic bleach.  There really isn't any difference, especially 
     after diluting it.
     
     <speculation mode on>
     I believe that the excess caustic is what does most of the cleaning 
     and that the -OCl is what does the sanitizing.  We were told that HOCl 
     was pretty unstable and kept chilled.  That may have also been related 
     to Cl2 solubility in water.  Eventually the OCl will break down 
     presumably in the act of sanitizing so that you end up with more NaCl. 
     NaOCl is more stable than HOCl, but HOCl doesn't exist in common 
     bleach with excess caustic.  Available Chlorine or AVCL is used to 
     measure how much OCl is present.  Oxidation-Reduction Potential (ORP) 
     can be used in concert with pH to infer AVCL.
     
     I have always been told and believed that bleach was deactivated more 
     quickly at higher temperatures.  What are the mechanisms?  I don't 
     know.  Does this simply mean that sanitizing is occuring more quickly? 
     I don't know.  Is this just another momily?  I don't know.
     <speculation mode off>
     
     I don't sweat it much.  I use excess bleach.  It's cheap and within 
     reason, more is better.  I'm careful.  I don't want to ruin my 
     clothes, and I want to be able to see if I do!!  I clean everything as 
     best I can before using bleach to sanitize.  I rinse anything that 
     cannot drip dry with water.  I have never had problems rinsing with 
     tapwater, but if I did, I would switch to boiled water.
     
     BTW Dave Burley,
     
     I was in Sam's over the holidays and saw the giant size Quaker 1 
     minute oats.  I checked the ingredients and it said 100% rolled oats.  
     No mention of papain or anything else.  The papain would have been a 
     good explanation for the heading problems I had with my oatmeal stout. 
     But according to the label, it's not there.  Any other ideas?
     
     Regards,
     
     Lou 
     
     2 blocks west of the Celis brewery and and 10 minutes til beer thirty.

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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:45:58 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: LA/NA  BS,Drrry Stout, capturing the wild yeast

Brewsters:

Jack Schmidling accuses me of being a little ( or a lot ) paranoid =

about giving beer,  which has been processed to supposedly remove
the alcohol, to recovering alcoholics. =


Well, I have had four people close to me who suffered alcoholism =

and been friends with more. An uncle who died slowly of sclerosis
of the liver, swollen belly and all,  the father of my godchild who ruine=
d
lots of lives with his affliction, the best secretary one could ever hope=
 =

to have, suffered divorce and loss of her family and died a lonely =

alcohol-soaked woman and an engineering manager who was the
smartest, most talented guy who ever worked for me died at an early
age, unhappy for most of his later life because of the ravages =

of excess alcohol consumption.

I know what alcoholism can do and I know how easy it is for an
alcoholic to fool himself into thinking he's OK - I've seen it up close
and personal.  One little trigger can send him off on a bender that
may destroy his life and worse - others' lives. Anecdotal evidence =

such as your personal experience is not proof of anything as it
relates to other people.  =


As a result of these personally painful experiences, Jack,
I have no patience for your kind of diatribe in this area, since the
belief that you or others can easily and reliably  produce
alcohol-free beer from alcohol-containing beer or that alcoholics
can drink one beer a day is absolute crap and there is lots of
scientific evidence to prove it - deny it if you will- that does not =

change the truth.

If any readers out there believe Jack, hang around an
alcoholic for a while and you'll find out what absolute bullshit
Jack's "beer-a-day"  contention is.
- -----------------------------------------------------
Mike Rose of my old Alma Mater, UC Riverside, says:

>I saw a recipe on the web(cats meow maybe?) that gave a
basic stout
>recipe and then called for the addition of 40cc of lactic acid before
>bottling. Would this provide that Guiness *tanginess* or is this
just
>throwing the ph of the beer way off.

40cc of 88% lactic acid in 5 gallons would be undrinkable IMHO.
Maybe 2-4cc is more like it.  In any event, try a small sample to arrive
at a tanginess that is suitable to you. In later batches I would
put it in earlier than the bottling step, perhaps the cold wort before
fermentation, so that you don't have a problem with protein
precipitation, color loss or whatever in the bottle from the lower pH .

See the next topic below. =

- ----------------------------------------------------------
Mark talks about using the "chef levain" method of capturing
wild yeast by leaving the flour sponge exposed to the air to make
sourdough. =


Try this experiment. Make a sponge, leave half of it
covered and the other uncovered.  You will get leavening in both
because the majority of yeast is in the unbleached flour and =

doesn't come from the air.  I don't know about bleached flour, but
suspect the same.

Ground and uncooked malt in a wort will produce a lactic culture
of sour beer (Boil it before using it to add to your beer), used to
make stout wort acidic. See the archives. I have used this in making
sourdough bread.

As I recall, about 3% of this stale beer is added to stout. My past
experiments have shown this sour beer fermentation to produce
0.1N lactic acid overnight.   3% of 128 ounces is about 4 ounces.
And 0.1 N lactic acid (MW  60) is 6g/liter or about  6 ppt.  4 ounces
of this sour beer would contain 0.024 ounces of lactic acid or
0.027 ounces as 88% lactic acid. . If a tsp is 5 mls then this
amount is about 0.4mls per gallon of beer or two mls or half a =

teaspoon of food grade 88% lactic acid per 5 gallon batch.   =


As you may know, beer yeast was used to leaven bread for
centuries before special baking strains were developed.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:29:11 EST
From: SCRIT <SCRIT at aol.com>
Subject: RIMS and such

I have 3 tier system and was planning to use a pump for recirculation of the
wort
during mashing.   My mash screen is the unit sold by Heartland homebrew supply
so the amount and clearance underneath the mash screen is minimal.   

What would be the risk of scorching if to increase tempuratre during a stepped
infusion mash I were apply heat to the bottom of the mashtun and pump to the
top of the mashtun,  ala RIMS.  

I was thinking that I either would compact the grain bed  so bad that sparging
would be impossible or I would scorch 25 pounds of some really nice Pilsner
malt.

I was also going to use the pump to recirc the wort post boil to filter and to
push the wort thru the chiller.  Any comments on that plan are welcomed.

Thanks,,  Joe

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Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:16:42 -0500
From: Jennifer & Michael Miles <jmmiles at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: No carbonation

Hello--

I have been reading this digest for 5 years or so, and extract brewing
for about 6.  For the first time, I bottled a batch which is showing no
signs of carbonation.  I know that the question has been asked before,
but to be honest I didn't read the articles since I had no answer to
give and it had never happened to me.  There is some yeast sediment in
the bottom of the bottles.  Any advice would be appreciated.

Mike Miles

Millis, MA

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---