---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: phenolic extraction with RIMS/Malt conversion % (Steve Alexander)
  Kahlua Recipe ? ("Alan Gilchrist")
  Stouts & draught systems/ Pasteurizing kegs (Richard Byrnes)
  "bitter beer face" (Jim English)
  New Brewer, rationalization ("David R. Burley")
  re: Keeping warm (Scott Clapper)" <sclapper at delmarva.com>
  Gambrinus White/Light (Brad McMahon)
  hi-temp ferment/Montreal (Lou Heavner)
  Traquair House Ale & McEwans Scotch Ale (Paul Henning)
  re: Keeping warm (Tidmarsh Major)
  mash mixing, RIMS, fermenter temp. control, sparging (SBireley)
  counter pressure bottling ("Spies, James")
  Heaters for Mixmashing (Mashmixing, Maxmishing???) (Harold L Bush)
  newbie brewing ("Bryan L. Gros")
  re:Maintaining steeping temps (Tidmarsh Major)
  re: Non Fermentation (PVanslyke)
  Re: A question about yeast starters (LBarrowman)
  sparging - when to stop? (LBarrowman)
  Computer-Controlled Brewing System (Joe Stone)
  newbie questions, vol 2 ("MMC Richard A. Kappler")
  Sam Adams Scotch Ale (Loren Crow)
  Newbie Questions (KennyEddy)
  Extreme Brewing ("Schroeder, Curt")
  Corn (Jack Schmidling)


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  hbd.org 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.) 

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! 
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at realbeer.com

Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org

Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:

  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
        ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 04:52:40 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: phenolic extraction with RIMS/Malt conversion %

This is a very difficult question to answer,  One study
from (Von Narbiz, Brauwelt, 1979) indicates that thinner mashes
(4:1 and 5:1 water:grist, versus 3:1) had greater phenolic
extraction.  The same study also shows that longer mashes (180
and 360 minutes versus 105 minutes) had lower phenolic extraction
(but worse flavor).  Is cycling the water thru a RIMS equivalent to adding more
water ?  Well yes and no.

Experience says that a RIMS doesn't create phenolic related problems, tho it'd
be interesting to see a test.

- --
How much malt is necessary to convert your adjunct ?
This depends entirely on how you treat your enzymes.

If you mash in at 65F, your beta-amylase will be toast before
it has a chance to convert enough starches to maltose. If you mash using a
60C/70C schedule you can usefully extend the hold time at 60C and get a complete
conversion and normal fermentability levels.

The rules of thumb are apparently based on single infusion mash conditions.  The
whiskey industry regularly mashes using no more than 30% 6-row malt, a low
temperature mash and pre-gelatinized adjuncts getting maximum fermentability.

I have no doubt that 10% malt figures are possible.

How much diastatic power fron various malts ?
>From the BT 1997 Market Guide, some typical figures ...

Barley Malts:
US 6-row         140-160 Lintner
US 2-rows        110-130 Lint
Continental 2-row 60-110 Lint
US pale ale      100-120 Lint
Brit Pale Ale      40-60 Lint

Wheat Malts:
Crisp, Breiss & Gr.Western & Schreier 120-165 Lint
Brew.Prod., DWC & Gambrinus            70-100 Lint. 

Rye Malts:
N.American	  95-130 Lint

I wouldn't sweat the wheat malt conversion.

Steve Alexander

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:13:10 +1030
From: "Alan Gilchrist" <gilly at camtech.net.au>
Subject: Kahlua Recipe ?

Can anyone provide me with a Kahlua recipe ?

Thanks


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Alan Gilchrist
PO Box 1337
Stirling North  Sth Australia  5710


gilly at camtech.net.au

Amateur Radio Callsign  VK5BWG    PF87SQ

Amateur Radio Packet Address :-
VK5BWG  at  VK5SU.#MDN.#SA.AUS.OC
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Return to table of contents


Date: 09 Jan 1998 07:34:48 -0500
From: Richard Byrnes <rbyrnes2 at ford.com>
Subject: Stouts & draught systems/ Pasteurizing kegs

Greetings Beerlings....

As St Patty's day draws near we start to plan our annual St Patty's
day bash, this year I've decided to add a stout faucet to my draught
system and I have some technical questions.

First off, I completely understand the balance of a draught system, I
haven't touched my regulator in almost 2 years, it's always at 13 lbs
for carbonating and dispensing, so that being said, here's my questions.

1) how many volumes of carbonation is optimal for a stout that is destined
   to be pushed with a N2/Co2 blend?

2) I will be purchasing the variable restrictor stout faucet from Banner,
   but in general, how many pounds of restriction does a stout faucet have?

Thanks!
(PS Any award winning "KILLER" stout recipes, either sweet or oatmeal
would be welcome.)

I've perused CP's latest book of World Cup Recipes, and the stout recipes
look interesting.

************************************************

A thought comes to mind, has anyone ever pasteurized a cornie keg before?
It would seem simple enough to drop it in a half barrel, fill the half
barrel with water, take the cornie out, bring th water up to pasteurizing
temps (155?) and drop the cornie back in for a half hour or so.

any thoughts?

Talk amongst yourself, now I'm verklempt.

Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
Pre-Production Systems Analyst                 \\\|///
phone #(313)390-9369, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2 at ford.com                                (_)

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:44:02 -0500
From: Jim English <jimebob at mindspring.com>
Subject: "bitter beer face"

Stepped up to full volume boils on the last two batches of extract brews and
I think I may have screwed up in the specialty grain steeping area.
I adapted my old small-pot method and steeped in the full volume of water to
170 degrees F , removed the grain bag and proceeded as per usual.
I knew I would get much better extraction from the hops but figured, " what
the hey".
One batch is pushing 6 weeks in the bottle and is way bitter/harsh.  I
haven't even tried the other (4 weeks) yet.
Did I extract tannins from the specialty grains due to the volume of water?

TIA

JRE


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:01:00 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: New Brewer, rationalization

Brewsters:

Like a lot of other new brewers ( welcome aboard), =

Kent Campbell says:

>I received a Homebrew Kit from my Daughter for Christmas, =

and a great book
>on the subject as well.  It included a 3.5lb can of malt extract,
 2 lbs of
>dried malt extract, a packet of Edme yeast with a 1999
 expiration date, and
>some ?Fuggles? hops.  =

>.............
>  Added store bought bottled distilled water to 5 gallons....

Ooops.  Just because it's distilled or some other kind of water
from the store doesn't make it sterile.  Always boil and cool it before
you add it to your wort/beer.  Chances are you're OK, so don't worry
too much about this.

>.............
>Placed the lid, and the airlock, and watched the thing pop at
 about 70 to
>75 beats a minute for the first 36 hours, then slowly drop off to no
>activity in the air lock after about 48 to 60 hours.  =


Well, there's your proof of fermentation.

BTW, the OG was 1.013 at about 75 degrees F.

Likely you read this incorrectly and it was 1.043 or 1.053 =

or whatever. =


>  After 7 days, I took a sample
>from the carboy and tested the SG to see if this stuff was =

getting ready.
>To my absolute surprise, I got a SG reading of 1.013 at
about 64 degrees F.

Sounds about right for an FG .

> it sure seems
>to me that virtually no fermentation has taken place. =


Well it seems to me it has from your description.

>Any ideas would be appreciated.

Bottle it.
- ------------------------------------------------------
Remember, folks, not all alcoholism treatment centers are
based on religion and lying and rationalization is part of this
disease.  If a true alcoholic could cure himself, beyond taking
personal responsibility for his dissipative actions, then he's
not really an alcoholic, by definition.  If you believe you have a =

drinking problem and need help, seek out professional help
wherever you can and don't listen to an alcoholic for advice
on this subject.
- ------------------------------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 9:00:19 EST
From: "(Scott Clapper)" <sclapper at delmarva.com>
Subject: re: Keeping warm

Hello good homebrewers,
I have a suggestion as to how to keep the wort warm.  How about a fish tank 
heater?

Scotty -- Bethany Beach, DE
Discretion is being able to raise your eyebrow instead of your voice.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:22:18 +1000
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Gambrinus White/Light

Automagical Mail Responder wrote:
> 
> (Note: This message has been generated by a program)
> Andrew wrote:
> >I just got a postcard from my mother who spent Christmas
> in the Czech Republic; She spent alot of time in Prague
> and Pilz and writes
>"pilsener is free with lunch but water costs
> money" My kind of place.
 
Wow, never had that - at least not in Praha, but I never
went to Plzen, but sounds like she was having package meals.
Hope she didn't get ripped off...

>She brought me back four bottles of Urquell and one of
>"Gambrinus >White".
>The Gambrinus Dark broke along the way.
>Does anyone know what >Gambrinus White is?
 
She means Gambrinus Light - meaning in colour, not alcohol.
Just like Germans have "Helles" and "Dunkel/Schwarz"
the Czechs have "Svetle" and "Tmave/Cerne"

(There is no AHA category for Czech dark beers - although
you would probably enter them as German dunkels).

There is an upside down caret over the first e in Svetle and over
the C in Cerny. There are accents over the last e's.
Pronounce as such: "Svyet-lee" "T'mav-eh" "Chern-eh"
 
So your Gambrinus is in fact a true straw coloured Pilsner.
You will enjoy it if it hasn't gone off. This is likely
as Czech beers travel extremely badly, but it might still be OK.
Your best choice is to go over! You won't regret it.
 
The Czechs also rate their beer in Plato - though the usually
use a "%" instead of a degree. The Gambrinus you will try
has "10% svetle z Plzene" on the label and the label is
silver with a white (ah-ha!) diagonal stripe with Gambrinus in it.
Gambrinus svetle 10 is 4.1% abv.
I prefer Gambrinus 12 though - and all Gambrinus over Urquell.
Mest'an is my fave though.
 
I spent a month in Praha(Prague) in July/August this year
and collected heaps of labels along the way! It helps to
have a girlfriend who is Czech!


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:05:17 -0600
From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner)
Subject: hi-temp ferment/Montreal

     From Dave in Dallas:
     >>>>>
     Not surprisingly, this high-T "excursion" has resulted in some esters
     that I'd prefer not to have in the beer.  My question: can this be
     alleviated by extended lagering, or should I just proceed as normal,
     get a less-than-optimum result, and chalk it up to experience?
     <<<<<
     
     Gee Dave, what a chance to experiment.  I don't know how you'll end 
     up, but I hope you'll consider normal lagering some for extended 
     lagering for some, and no lagering for the rest?.  Then you can do the 
     "double blind and deaf" (tm AlK?) taste test with you and some friends 
     to evaluate the results.  Then let us all know how it turned out.  I'm 
     no certified beer judge, but I might even make the drive up IH-35. ;)
     
     
     On another note, I will be in Montreal the last week in January and 
     will have some free time, especially Sunday the 25th to check out any 
     interesting local beverages.  Anybody from up that away care to make 
     suggestions?  Merci, mon ami.
     
     Regards,
     
     Lou in Austin
     <lheavner at frmail.frco.com>

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:44:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Paul Henning <phenning at cs.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Traquair House Ale & McEwans Scotch Ale


Thanks to the tenacity of one of our local liquor stores, we are
finally getting some "bigger" beers in Iowa.  Among the large
collection of Belgians and doppelbocks that have recently arrived,
there is a cache of Scottish beers, including Traquair House Ale.
That beer certainly lives up to the rave reviews I have heard on HBD
and elsewhere.

However, it also introduced a little confusion.  I was expecting a
strong Scotch ale, which I had previously equated with McEwan's Scotch
Ale: HUGE malt aroma and body.  Not that THA doesn't have malt; just
not so overwhelmingly so.

I'm wondering if someone wants to straighten out my beer taxonomy.
Are THA and MSA different ends of the same category, or is THA a
"scottish ale" rather than a strong scotch, or is MSA just an anomaly?

Thanks,
Paul Henning			Iowa City, IA
phenning at cs.uiowa.edu		http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~phenning

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:00:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Tidmarsh Major <tmajor at parallel.park.uga.edu>
Subject: re: Keeping warm

Nathan in Frankenmuth suggests that Tony Willoughby build Ken Schwartz's
fermentation chiller and perhaps use a ceramic heater to raise his
too-cold fermentation temps.  I don't remember how cold Tony's
fermentation was, but for a more low-tech approach, how about using gallon
jugs filled with hot water (either from the tap or heated a bit on the
stove)in place of ice-filled jugs? It may provide enough warmth to keep
the fermenter in the proper temperature range while at the same time
retaining the admirable simplicity of Mr. Schwartz's design.

Tidmarsh Major
tmajor at parallel.park.uga.edu
Athens, Georgia (where it seems never to get too cold to ferment)


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 11:10:51 EST
From: SBireley at renex.com
Subject: mash mixing, RIMS, fermenter temp. control, sparging

     I have evolved as a brewer, like most on HBD, from extract to all 
     grain, and in the process tinkered with alot of ideas to improve the 
     process. Brewing appeals to the tinkerer in me and taking a hobby the  
      Nth degree is the only way I do it. I see this applies to many 
     others.  To quote a friend it the high-end audio business " Anything 
     worth doing is worth doing to excess." 
     
     We have been brewing using a recirculating pump in the Mashtun for 
     some time with great success.  Using a false bottom, magnetic drive 
     pump, four outlet sparging arm (courtesy of someone's RIMS page) and  
     thermocouple adapter for a DMM, we achieve excellent, stable 
     temperature profiles throughout the mash, fast boost times, easy (but 
     manual) temperature control, and good extract efficiency.  We do 3 
     step infusion mashes and have found the key to be placing the 
     thermocouple probe in the outlet of the sparging arm and regulating 
     the heat based on temperature of the wort being pumped from under the 
     false bottom. Once the target temperature has been achieved, we 
     profile the grain bed to verify the target temperature has been 
     achieved throughout, then reduce the heat to maintain the target 
     temperature.  We use an uninsulated sankey keg as the mashtun, 
     therefore, some heat must be applied to maintain the target temp.  
     This is not an automated RIMS, but it works well. Additional 
     automation is sure to come.
     
     Though this has worked well for us, combining this system with an 
     automated mixing system seems like a good idea. We will have the 
     advantages of recirculation; clear wort run off, easy, fast boosts, no 
     scorching, and the advantages of the mixer; less manual labor, very 
     consistent temperature profile, and maybe increased mash efficiency.  
     We intend to build a mixer set up and experiment with it. Any comments 
     would be appreciated.
     
     In response to KEEPING WARM, I use a light bulb in the winter to keep 
     the temperature in my fermentation refrigerator (in garage) at 55 deg. 
     for ales.  This results in a fermentation temperature of 63 to 65 
     during high krausen,it drops off some after that. ( I wrote in about 
     this a few weeks ago concerning the effect of the temperature drop on 
     the taste).  I use the same controller for temperature control of both 
     the compressor and the light bulb.  The controller is for a heater and 
     I connect the normally open contacts of the relay to the light bulb.  
     When used for refrigeration, I connect the compressor to the normally 
     closed contacts.  This seems to work fine.  I think a home type 
     thermostat will work fine, but I think they are 24 volt.  The  24volt 
     transformer is available from a hardware store and a 24v coil relay 
     from radio shack or like store.
     
     Is there a preferred method for determining when to stop the runoff 
     during sparging?  We use a lab quality PH meter to monitor mash ph, 
     but stop our runoff at 1.010 gravity.  I'm sure we are leaving good 
     sugar in the tun, but we do not want to over sparge. Is there a rule 
     of thumb?


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:34:30 -0500
From: "Spies, James" <Jams at mlis.state.md.us>
Subject: counter pressure bottling

All -

I just came into a few 5-gallon kegs cheap, and eventually plan on doing
the kegging/filtering/force carbo-ing/counter pressure bottling thing.
Eventually.  As I was pondering the future, a question popped into my
head.  If one filters the final product and then force carbonates and
bottles and/or kegs the filtered CO2'd beer, will the lack of yeast
preclude aging or conditioning of the beer.  Removing all of the stuff
from beer is the reason that the Budmillors swill goes stale after
awhile.  Will the same thing happen to my brew if I filter/force?  Will
using a coarser filter allow some yeast to pass through?  Perhaps some
of the collective wisdom on this issue can be shunted my way.  

BTW, SABCO currently has reconditioned 5-gallon SS kegs on sale for $12.
 Not a misprint, just rock bottom prices.  I picked up three yesterday.
Point to www.kegs.com.  No affilliation, yadda yadda, solely FYI.  Hurry
though.  At $12, they ain't gonna be there long.

TIA,
Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:37:03 -0500
From: Harold L Bush <harrybush at compuserve.com>
Subject: Heaters for Mixmashing (Mashmixing, Maxmishing???)

Hi- I've been netless, and therefore HBDless for just over 2 years and it=
s
good to be back. Glad to see Jack S. is still here, full of piss and
vinegar. For the same 2+ years, I've <not> been  putting together my new
brewery, so I've returned to the HBD just in time to witness a good
discussion of mashing methods/equipment.

In the Tues., 1/6/98 HBD, Charlie Scandrett brought up the idea of using
low density heating elements as the impeller blades in a motorized stirri=
ng
device.  My question is: how would you get the power to them?  I guess th=
at
if you look hard enough, you might find an off-the-shelf slip ring type
electrical coupling to mount on the mixing shaft and run wires down the
shaft to get the power (I presume in the order of 1 kW) to the impeller
heating elements. I don't know if such couplings are available, or their
cost (it probably wont be cheap, since it would have to carry in the area=

of 8 amps at 120v). Anyone out there have any clues?  I wont even suggest=

the option of building your own slip ring device. 120 volts and a
potentially wet environment  (ZAP!) would make for too many design
obstacles for most of us basement machinists.

I, on the other hand, purchased a Rubbermaid cooler (10 gal) and a 5 qt.
pressure cooker with the intention of doing step mashing with steam
injection as my heat source. I assume that stirring would only have to be=

done while heating.  Is this a good assumption?  And could any
steam-hardened veterans (Charlie Scrandrett?) give me an idea of how long=

it takes to raise mash temps with steam injection. Motorized stirring may=

be a good idea for this setup.

BTW, for those interested  in the ultimate in mash circulation simplicity=
,
I have invented the StirringSpoon (no trademark, so you're free to
infringe). It is a combination mash-mixer and wrist-forearm exerciser (as=

always, please consult your doctor before beginning any exercise program)=

consisting of a commericially available stainless steel spoon,  friction
tape for secure grip, and a hole drilled in the end  to facilitate easy
storage on your favorite hook.  I don't plan to market it, but feel free =
to
contact me for details  ;-)

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:46:33 -0800
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: newbie brewing

Richard writes:
>Howdy folks, finally have a few questions I feel are worthy of your
>time, but if they've been covered ad nauseum previously feel free to
>reply privately or ignore. ....

First, you should have one of several introductory brewing 
books available.  I'd recommend Miller's Homebrewer's Guide,
but whichever you like.  These questions should all be
addressed in those books.  And keep reading the digest.

> 2.  My brewing setup is a little primitive as of yet. Mostly I do 
>partial grain brews, I have just added an 8 gallon pot for full boils 
>and a wort chiller to my arsenal.  The question is re steeping 
>(mashing?) temps for my grain.  The recipes I get from books or my 
>supplier (yes, I'm still at that stage) almost all say steep grains 
>for 30 minutes at 155 F.  ...  If I look away for even a moment, it jumps 
>as high as 175 F.  From lurking on the list for quite some time, I 
>get the impression this might actually be a good thing.  How better 
>to control temps, and what temps to use?

Not sure why your temps are increasing.  You must be heating
the mash directly, and then you'll get some rise in temps after turning
off the heat.  This is because the bottom of the pot gets hot.  

Anyway, the more you can control the temp, the more consistency
you will get.  But fluctuations in temperature won't affect your beer that
much.  Except if you get much over 160F, you'll really start to 
denature enzymes, and that will make for a very long mash.

Since you are apparently only mashing a couple or three pounds of
grain, I'd recommend using some kind of insulated box to put your
mash tun in.  After a few trials, you can figure out what temp of
water (say, 168F or so) to add grain to so you can mash at 155F.  
You can also try putting your pot in a 155 oven, if your oven goes
down that low.

>
> 3.  I use two burners on my gas stove to heat/boil my wort.  I get 
>some 'burning'  (carmelization?) on the bottom of the pot, very 
>little, but its there.  Is this a bad thing?  ...
> 4.  After steeping the grains for 30 min, Most of the recipes I like 
>say add extracts etc and boil for 1 hr.  Does time used to increase 
>temp from 155 to boiling count? Are we talking a full rolling boil, 
>gentle boil, what?

You want a full rolling boil.  Two reasons:  you'll get better hop
utilization and better hot break.  A little scorching on the bottom
won't affect you too much, as long as you can clean it off when
you're done.  You also want to boil for other reasons--you'll drive 
off more precursors to DMS, a corn-like flavor you don't want.  
You'll also sterilze your wort and concentrate your wort to the 
right gravity.

Oh, the corn sugar thing.  If you prime with corn sugar, you want it
all to be converted to alcohol and CO2.  None should be left to 
contribute any sweetness.  In my experience, there's no difference
between priming with sugar, honey, or malt.  Maybe others will
have a better explanation.

I could go on, but hopefully this is helpful.
  - Bryan

Bryan Gros	gros at bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA
Visit the Draught Board club website:
http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:57:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Tidmarsh Major <tmajor at parallel.park.uga.edu>
Subject: re:Maintaining steeping temps


MMC Richard Kappler asks, among other things, how to steep grains at 155F
without overshooting.  What I've done for the past couple of
extract/specialty grain batches I've done is put the crushed grains in a
grain sock and put it in a stock pot with about a gallon of water heated
to 160-165F, stabilize at 155F or so (adding heat on the stovetop if
necessary), and place the pot, covered, in an oven set to "Warm" (~150F)
for 30min to an hour while I heat the 5 gallons of water for the extract.
I then drain the wort from the sock into the kettle and dunk the sock in
the hot brew-kettle water to rinse a bit more sugar, and then dissolve my
extracts and continue as usual.

Also, boil time is time at a boil, not including the time to come to a
boil. A full rolling boil is probably best for hop utilization, but I
usually go with more of a gentle boil, to help avoid boilovers when I'm
not looking.

Tidmarsh Major
tmajor at parallel.park.uga.edu
Athens, Georgia




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:06:06 EST
From: PVanslyke <PVanslyke at aol.com>
Subject: re: Non Fermentation

On Wed, 07 Jan 1998 07:13:05 -0600 , Kent Campbell <kencam at pobox.com> pos=
ted -=0A=0A=85  It included a 3.5lb can of malt extract, 2 lbs of=0Adried=
 malt extract, a packet of Edme yeast with a 1999 expiration date, and=0A=
some ?Fuggles? hops.  =0A=85 the OG was 1.013 at about 75 degrees F.  Aft=
er 7 days, I took a sample=0Afrom the carboy and tested the SG to see if =
this stuff was getting ready.=0ATo my absolute surprise, I got a SG readi=
ng of 1.013 at about 64 degrees F.=0A=0AKent, I think your original gravi=
ty reading may have been miss read. Possibly=0Athe sample you took was fr=
om a portion of the wort that had not been=0Athoroughly mixed (you added =
the bottled water to the cooled wort). Five and a=0Ahalf lb. of fermentab=
les should have givven you an OG around 1.035.=0A=0AMy guess is you now h=
ave beer. Try a taste-test on a sample.=0A=0APaul VanSlyke >> brewin' and=
 relaxin' in Deposit, NY=0A=0A


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:36:37 EST
From: LBarrowman <LBarrowman at aol.com>
Subject: Re: A question about yeast starters

Danny,

Sorry for holding out on you. I did try increasing the gravity of my starter
substrate to ~2# per gallon. I still start them off with substrate at
~0.5#/gal (1 pint  at  0 hours and 1 pint  at  ~24 hours) until I have added a
quart. Then I add the higher gravity starter at 1/3 pint per day until the day
before brew day when they get fed twice a day. This methods seems to work
well. I get a lot more krausen and bubbling going on, but the amount of yeast
appears to be about same as before. Lag times have been acceptable, ~8 hours,
but longer, I think because my brew cellar is cooler this time of year.

I have been making 3 starters at a time from a single wyeast pack. My last two
batches have been 12.5 gal. using the first runnings to make a heavy. I have
had no problems fermenting out the heavies, the highest had a gravity of 1.106
and the other 1.102. So, I'm thinking the yeast is pretty robust. I used
Wyeast 2308 and  1318 respectively.

Laura
Charlotte,  NC

Subj:	 A question about yeast starters
Date:	98-01-09 10:03:06 EST
From:	DBreidenbach at nctm.org (Danny Breidenbach)
To:	LBarrowman at AOL.COM

Laura,
In HBD 2556, 11 Nov 1997 you wrote:

"I have had great success (lag time ~3 or 4 hours) by pitching my
starters into a gallon jug with 1/2 pint wort and then feeding them 1 pint
per day until the day before brew day when they get 1 pint every 12
hours. (starter substrate: 1# DME per 2 gallons) I usually end up with ~3
quarts final starter volume. I hate dumping off the liquid before I pitch
because there are so many yeast cells suspended in it. I think the lazy
(or dead) ones are lying on the bottom.

"I am thinking about changing my method slightly to keep the starter
volume down. Using my previous method (dilute wort), I would get the
starter volume to ~1 quart and then begin adding small amounts (1/4 pint)
of higher gravity wort. (substrate: 1# DME per 1/2 gallon) I think my yeast
food is too dilute. By changing the gravity of wort fed, water is the only
thing eliminated, resulting in the same amount of substrate (at the same
rate) to the yeast cells."

Any updates?  I'm curious to know if you tried your new idea to keep
starter volume down and how it worked.  Please let me know, I'm an
inactive brewer getting geared up to go again, and I'm trying to figure out
how to manage my yeast pitching, etc.

Thanks,
- --Danny

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:55:40 EST
From: LBarrowman <LBarrowman at aol.com>
Subject: sparging - when to stop?

Some time ago I pleaded for help improving my mash efficiency. I am happy to
say you all helped out a lot and I am finally getting the gravities I was
looking for. My biggest improvement has come from slowing my sparge rate to a
tiny trickle.

I have been having to stop spraging when my boil pot is full. The gravity of
my run-off has been between 1.026 & 1.030 when I stop. This seems a little
high to me. Should I be sparging out more wort? Should I track gravity or pH
(or both) to indicate when to stop?

Thanks again all,

Laura
Charlotte NC

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:28:22 -0800
From: Joe Stone <joestone at cisco.com>
Subject: Computer-Controlled Brewing System

I started designing my computer-controlled, RIMS-based
brewing system in September 1994 with help from Bob "Mac"
McIlvaine and others on the HBD.  I brewed my first batch of
beer with it in December 1994.  I completed the final (?)
phase of the brewing system in September 1996.
 
  I have finally completed (?) a web page describing the
system,
 
        http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Sbs/
 
Yeah I know, "On no, not another brewing system web page."
But this is my way of saying thank you to those who helped
me and share the design with others.
 
  The web page design certainly won't win any awards, but
hopefully the content will adequately convey the brewing
system design, stimulate thought and spark new ideas (which
you are obligated to share with me :-).
 
  I've invested well over $5,000 in the brewing system (I
have over $4,000 in receipts).  And while the cost may be
impractical, I think there are several very practical design
points which could easily be extended to other less-
expensive, less-automated brewing systems.
 
  I purchased the IBM 80286 PC-AT, monitor and the ADIO
(analog/digital input/output) board surplus for under $30.
This, coupled with a $17 SSR (solid state relay), a $3 solid-
state temperature sensor and a surplus five volt power
supply, forms a simple, elegant and fully programmable RIMS
controller.
 
  The computer controls four solenoid valves, two pumps, two
electric heater elements and monitors two temperature
sensors and three water/wort level indicators.  An animated
graphical user interface shows times, temperatures, flow
rates, wort/water levels, ..., pumps "pump", water/wort
"flows", flames "flicker", ...  The state of the entire
system is logged to a "batch" file once every minute.
 
  The web page also describes:  an $80 gear-driven MaltMill-
based grain mill with a 15 pound hopper; a 12 gallon
temperature-controlled cylindriconical fermenter; and an
eight keg, six faucet keg dispenser.
 
  Please take a few moments to check it out...
 
Joe

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:03:25 -0500
From: "MMC Richard A. Kappler" <KAPPLERR at swos.navy.mil>
Subject: newbie questions, vol 2

Thanks so much for the posts I have received so far, and for those 
hopefully still coming.  I have a gazillion of these, but am trying 
not to flood the list.  Also I find that, as you fine folk answer the 
questions I have already asked, you also inadvertantly answer some I 
was about to ask.  So, on to vol 2.
My querry about growing and mashing barley in vol 1 should have read 
growing and MALTING barley, sometimes the fingers get confused.  I 
got several excellent arguements for switching immediately to all 
grain (not to revive a recent heated thread:-) and eventually intend 
to, but right now I am most concerned with refining technique and 
learning processes.  I'm an engineer, I usually want to know how 
something works before I try to work it.

1.  I used a cash Christmas gift to make a wort cooler, and the thing 
works great, 212 to 75F in 16 minutes vice a few hours. Doesn't the 
copper react with the wort though?  I know that copper easily gives 
off ions and readily reacts with so many other compounds and 
substances, how does it react here?

2.  I switched early to the 5 litre kegging system vice bottles, and 
absolutely love it.  The one problem I had was having enough to fill 
4 kegs and a couple bottles.  When I bought my 8 gal pot to do full 
boils, I started making bigger batches (5 1/2 - 6 gal instead of 5 
gal) and voila! the problem was solved.  At the same time, upon 
recommendation of another homebrewer whom I don't remember, started 
straining my wort as I transfered it to the primary, removing most of 
the hop residue.  I cracked the first keg using these two changes the 
other night and was very disappointed.  I had brewed 'sea bass ale' 
from a recipe I have used frequently with nary a problem, but this 
batch turned out kinda, well, watery.  Not as much body as it should 
have.  Opinions?

3. One of the other lists I'm on is in a raging debate about fluid to 
use in air locks.  One side says always use something like vodka and 
the other side says water.  Opinions?

4.  My brews typically ferment vigorously enough during the first few 
days to bubble up right through the airlock and make a mess.  One 
brewer suggested I stop using the airlock at first and use a blowoff 
tube to another container.  Sorta makes sense.  He additionally said 
that when rapid fermentation has ceased and I'm no longer getting 
effluent from the blow off tube, I have reached "high krausen" and 
should immediately rack of to a secondary for better flavor.  Up to 
now, I wait until the airlock stops bubbling, usually a week -ten 
days, then rack to secondary for about another week, prime and keg, 
age for at least a month and enjoy.  I'm so confuzzled!

thanks in advance, Rich

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:52:45 -0500 (EST)
From: lorencrow at earthling.net (Loren Crow)
Subject: Sam Adams Scotch Ale

Blessings!

Has anyone else (particularly you style officionados) tried the new Sam
Adams Scotch Ale? I love the taste of it, and the alcohol level seems about
right to me. Having never had a Scotch Ale before, though, I can't tell
whether the taste is right. It does seem too highly carbonated for a beer
that's supposed to have "very low carbonation." I love the beer, but I'm
also interested in whether it's to style. Any comments?

Thanks,
Loren


==========================================================================
# Loren D. Crow, Ph.D.     ++ Office Phone:  (903) 927-3219              #
# Department of Religion   ++          Fax:  (903) 938-8100              #
# Wiley College            ++                                            #
# 711 Wiley Avenue         ++ Email: lorencrow at earthling.net             #
# Marshall, TX  75670      ++                                            #
==========================================================================

Even God cannot change the past.
               - Agathon (quoted by Aristotle, NE 6:2,1139)



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:01:46 EST
From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com>
Subject: Newbie Questions

Kent Cambell has some newbie questions.

  "This is my first post to this list, and you will surely discover that I am
  a neophyte.  Now with that admitted and acknowledged, I will, with great
  trepidation, post a question that will surely show my ignorance."

Welcome Kent!  The only thing that would show ignorance is NOT asking
questions.

  "I received a Homebrew Kit from my Daughter for Christmas, and a great book
  on the subject as well.  It included a 3.5lb can of malt extract, 2 lbs of
  dried malt extract, a packet of Edme yeast with a 1999 expiration date, and
  some ?Fuggles? hops.  
  I read up on how to do this procedure, sanitized everything as well as I
  could think with Clorox, rinsed well, boiled everything for 45 minutes,
  followed the instrucs on the Hops (steeped like tea in the last 15 minutes
  using a straining bag), cooled the wort to about 75 degrees F by using a..."

I assume then if the instructions said to simply steep the hops for 15
minutes, the extract must be pre-hopped for bitterness.  15 minutes isn't long
enough to get any significant bitterness from the hops (most brewers boil
bittering hops at least 60 minutes).  If the extract was indeed pre-hopped,
then fine, but if not, you can expect a sweet product with little bitterness.

  "...sink bath around the pot (tap water was about 43 degrees, so got a quick
  cool down in my 14 qt. pot), and put it in the Carboy.  Added store bought
  bottled distilled water to 5 gallons, and added the yeast which had been
  hydrated in a pint of boiled and cooled water, placed in a sterile half
  gallon container to which was added about 4 tablespoons of the canned malt
  extract mixed in a quart of 95 degree boiled and cooled water.  That had
  been left to start for about one hour while the wort was prepared.  "

So far so good, sorta.  Careful with the "store bought" water.  A recent
thread here indicated possibility of contamination, since not all bottled
water is "sanitized" (some is UV samitized and some is packaged tap water, so
who knows?).  That said, I made many of my first beers topping off with
straight tap water without infection, but YMMV.

Also, the yeast package normally contains sufficient nutrients for starting
the culture, so adding sugar/extract to the rehydration may not be necessary.
Check the package to be sure.  I don't suppose it hurts to add it though,
especially if the package has no information or specifically instructs you to
do so.

  "Placed the lid, and the airlock, and watched the thing pop at about 70 to
  75 beats a minute for the first 36 hours, then slowly drop off to no
  activity in the air lock after about 48 to 60 hours.  "

Sounds good.  Many first-time brewers experience very quick fermentations
(often due to high ambient temperature), or no activity at all (often
resulting from a poor lid seal; the CO2 escapes through the leak rather than
the airlock).

  "BTW, the OG was 1.013 at about 75 degrees F.  After 7 days, I took a sample
  from the carboy and tested the SG to see if this stuff was getting ready.
  To my absolute surprise, I got a SG reading of 1.013 at about 64 degrees F.
   Now I know that there is an adjustment for temperature, but it sure seems
  to me that virtually no fermentation has taken place.  What is the deal?
  Can I save this batch by re pitching with new yeast?  Why didn't the
sugars..."

With the amount of extract you specified, you should have had an OG (5 gal) of
about 1.042.  What probably happened is that you didn't mix the wort with the
top-off water well --  the heavier wort sank to the bottom, and you took your
hydromerter sample from the dilute liquid on top.  This is a fairly common
"mistake" that i can recall making once or twice till I figured it out.  The
fermentation activity would have mixed everything well, so that solves that
problem.  1.013 is a reasonable finishing gravity for this OG, but give it a
couple more days at least, just to be sure (and to prevent overcarbonation in
the bottle).  Your beer should be just fine.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:19:22 -0700
From: "Schroeder, Curt" <cschroed at ball.com>
Subject: Extreme Brewing

With respect to High Altitude Brewing I'd like to share my vision of it
as being part of a bigger class of brewing feats...."Extreme Brewing"

Operation: Hypoxia is an example of "Extreme Brewing" which was a fun
adventure, plus it can get your club publicity and helps promote
homebrewing.  IMO "Extreme Brewing" isn't constrianed to altitude, but
could be brewing: on tall buildings, on the pitchers mound at Dodger
Stadium, at the North Pole or like a club did in Arizona a few years
back have a brew-a-thon to see how many batches could be brewed in 24
hours.  The idea is a brewing activity that someone says "That's neat I
wish I'd thought of that" I just love to hear about such adventures and
encourage others to join in Extreme Brewing it's alot of fun.  It all
started with something as tame as brewing during a campout.

Disclaimer: Make sure the legality and safety of any such activities are
fully investigated and deemed safe and legal before attempting such
activities.

Curt Schroeder
Tribe Homebrew Club, Longmont, Colorado


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:13:59 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Corn

From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: beer with mass appeal

"Corn really adds to this style of beer, doesn't it?  
What a shame it's so denigrated.  

Corn is a wonderful flavor adjunct to our bag of tricks.  The 
reason it is so denigrated is because the megabrewers use it to
reduce the cost not to enhance or alter the flavor.

Fact is, most of them do not even use corn.  They use corn syrup
which has been stripped of all flavor and contributes nothing but
fermentable sugar.  It's a bit like intraveneous drugs. There is 
no need to even use malt because no enzymes are required.

The end product is fermented corn sugar not beer.

From: The GasFamily <gasman at navix.net>
Subject: Source for MashMixer motors - Surplus Center

"They have 20+ AC Gear motors - one that looks like the one on the 
MixM page goes for $6.99 (Item 5-1138) - but it is 42 RPM and rated for 
Intermittent duty - an hour or two may be tolerated.

An hour or two is exactly what "intermittent duty" is not.  This
is definitely not an application for intermittent duty.  That implies
several minutes not hours.

From: "C.W. Hudak" <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: Fixing my enamel pot

"I've searched the archives but keep coming up with nada. 
I'm looking for a product to repair the chips in my enamel on steel 
brewpot. 

I quit selling EM is kettles because of the chipping from shipping
damage.  In trying to sell them at discount, I tried all sorts of
things and have concluded that nothing exists that I would want in
contact with my boiling or mashing wort.  The heat resistance is
easy but the potential liability from selling it is too great.

There is a stainless charged epoxy that cures at around 400F that 
will then tollerate the flame under the pot but like I said, I would
not use it on the inside.  You can cure it just by holding it above
a flame for a few minutes.

I used the same kettle for 20 years and boiled maple syrup, fish and
beer in it over the years.  All I ever did was to rub a little
Vaseline on the bare metal before putting it away and wiping it off
when I wanted to use it again.

There still not nothing else on market that can get one into 
real brewing for even twice the cost.
 
From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: mass appeal beer, mixmasher

" mixmasher comments: I'm in a slow process of building a rims system.
 If my understanding of rims is correct, then one drawback is the slow
temperture rise.  Wouldn't a person be able to turn on the mix masher,
then fire up a 200,000 BTU burner under it?

Nice try but you would have to churn so fast you couldn't keep it
in the kettle.  Scorching is a potential problem with both systems
and probably more difficult to control with a flame.  

I suspect there is not much difference in allowable temperature rise 
rates of the two approaches.  I don't have a good handle on the rates 
but it usually takes about 45 minutes to raise my mash from 155 to 175F
without any concern for scorching.  I could do it faster but then
I would have to "worry" and we don't want to do that, do we?

js

- -- 
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp
                        Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf
             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday


Return to table of contents

---