---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  another Celis thought ("Curt Speaker")
  Angst(rom), ("David R. Burley")
  "unclear beer" JEANDWE at aol.com, 1/29 (Vachom)
  Re: Incomplete Fermentation/Racking too early ("Shawn Andrews")
  1998 HAIL TO ALE Results ("Brian Rezac")
  Lauter dynamics (GuyG4)
  Extract potential from rice?? (Grampus)
  Munich Malt,Protien rests and such ("Shawn Andrews")
  Scotch Ales/Recipes ("Shawn Andrews")
  Malt Extract ("Gregg Soh")
  RIMS!, protein rest. ("Steve Alexander")
  Would this work Re: Kegging (Ed Choromanski)
  re: Irish-American Red Ale recipe (Jeff Renner)
  Brewers South Pole (Brad McMahon)
  Monravian Pils Malt (Charles Peterson)
  Worthy Brew Pubs in LA (that's Los Angeles) ("Tkach, Christopher")
  Counter-pressure Bottlers (Bill Giffin)
  Off Flavor (Tim Burkhart)
  advice on fridge controller ("Jens B. Jorgensen")
  Re: Wit recipe (Jeff Renner)
  To RIMS or not to RIMS? (Spencer W Thomas)
  Scotch Ale - Thanks ("Michael Gerholdt")
  Maibock Recipes? ("bern \"call me bern\" neumann")
  keg lube (John Wilkinson)
  Predicting final gravity and carbonation/packaging (George_De_Piro)
  Vetical tubular false bottom, rehydrating yeast ("David R. Burley")
  Lautering Articles at BT Website (John Palmer)
  Polyclar and gelatin question (George_De_Piro)
  Walk In / The HBD Pale Ale Experiment (John Varady)
  Re: Liquid Yeast (Scott Kaczorowski)
  Bitter brew (ricjohnson)
  Stuck Sparge Question (Kirk Lund)
  Yeast Exchange ("Dustin H. Norlund")




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:07:35 EST
From: "Curt Speaker" <speaker at safety-1.safety.psu.edu>
Subject: another Celis thought

We have been (finally) able to get Celis products again here on the 
east coast.  Having not tasted it in over a year, I found the Celis 
White (on tap) to be a little sweeter than I remember, but still 
good.  I think I prefer Blanche de Bruges or Hoogarden, but Celis 
white is still pretty good.  And for all those folks out there 
busting on Blue Moon White, remember that this beer style is light 
and refreshing - sure, Blue Moon is a little thin on body, but it is 
not a horrible example of this style.
 A one point in the fall my favorite water hole also had Celis Grand 
Cru on tap which I was really disappointed in.  It was very cloudy, 
estery to the point of being perfume-like, and seemed to have a 
pronounced solventy flavor that would not dissipate with time. Could 
variations in the winter wheat crop in Texas be to blame, or is it El 
Nino again? :-) ?

Curt
(State College, the Geographic center of Pennsylvania, located 
directly above the center of the earth)
Curt Speaker                         
Biosafety Officer 
Penn State University                
Environmental Health and Safety    
speaker at ehs.psu.edu                   
http://www.ehs.psu.edu
^...^
(O_O)
=(Y)=
 """

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Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:23:34 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Angst(rom),

Brewsters:

Hubert Hanghofer pointed out to me privately that I incorrectly converted=

from Angstroms to microns.  The CRC handbook says an Angstrom is 0.0001
microns, so the wavelength of light at 4000 Angstroms is 0.4 microns not =
4
microns, as I wrote.  Sorry about that.  As I told him, SI units were jus=
t
being approved ( and not in the lesson plan) when I did my studying.  Now=

give me furlongs per fortnight and slugs and we're talkin'.

Doesn't change the thrust of the argument as far as beer clarification an=
d
yeast are concerned, but it does mean that filters on the order of tenths=

of microns are necessary to guarantee absolutely sparkling beer which we
knew all along and which I assumed in my discussion.
- -----------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:45:47 -0600
From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: "unclear beer" JEANDWE at aol.com, 1/29

	There are many factors that might be creating unclear beer, but the
first thing you should ask yourself is if the beer tastes good.  Clear
beer is not necessarily the hallmark of good beer.  It's nice to have
clear beer to give your friends who may be skeptical of anything that's
not see through.  If you think your beer tastes good and is cloudy, let
your next batch bottle condition then stick it in the fridge at about 35
degrees F for two weeks.  Lots of sediment will drop out at this temp. 
Please don't buy a filter unless you are brewing for friends almost
exclusively and want nothing but crystal clear, no sediment,
taste-impaired beer to give them.  Then you can start experimenting with
other factors while brewing.  You could be sparging too fast, sparging
too long, not mashing out, not chilling fast enough and achieving a cold
break, not fermenting out completely--which carries an entire host of
separate possibilties itself.  

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Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:21:10 -0600
From: "Shawn Andrews" <sabrewer at fgi.net>
Subject: Re: Incomplete Fermentation/Racking too early

   I have heard several people say that they rack after a couple of =
days. I have tried this a few times. Every time
the beer has a very high gravity(1040's) at the rack and doesn't ferment =
out to where I know it should(below 1020).
   I just wonder how these people do this and what their TG is. Surely =
I'm missing something, as I've never had
much success with a practice so commonly referred to.   =20



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Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:53:48 -0700
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: 1998 HAIL TO ALE Results

AHA 1998 HAIL TO ALE Results Press Release
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to thank Chuck Bernard and the members of the Music City
Brewers, Nashville, Tenn., for their exceptional performance in hosting and
organizing the AHA's 1998 Hail to Ale Club-Only Competition.  The 58
entries (one each from 58 different AHA registered homebrew clubs) were
judged on Saturday, Jan. 31, 1998 at Boscos Nashville Brewing Company,
Nashville, Tenn.

The AHA would also like to thank all the entrants and participating
homebrew clubs as well as all the judges.  While all the entries
represented "the best" from their respective clubs, here are the three
winning entries.  

Congratulations to everyone!

1st Place
=======
John & Doran Moranville of Memphis, Tennessee, representing the Bluff City
Brewers & Connoisseurs with their American Pale Ale (AHA Style Category
6a).

2nd Place
=======
John Maxey of Torrance, California, representing the Strand Brewers Club
with his "Celebrate This" IPA, an English-style India Pale Ale (AHA Style
Category 5b).

3rd Place
=======
Jesse McNew of Friendship, Maryland, representing the Aleing Sailors
Homebrew Club with his McBrew's Pale Ale, an American-style Pale Ale (AHA
Style Category 6a).


The next AHA Club-Only Competition, Stout Bout, will be organized by the
Brewers East End Revival, Middle Island, New York.  Entries are due on or
before March 16, 1998.

Thanks for your interest and support!

 -  Brian

Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association  (303) 447-0816  x 121   (voice)
736 Pearl Street                               (303) 447-2825   (fax)
Boulder, CO  80302                           brian at aob.org
U.S.A.                                             http://beertown.org





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Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:45:13 EST
From: GuyG4 at aol.com
Subject: Lauter dynamics

Ah! I've arrived as a brewer, Jack disagreed with me on the HBD!.

I noted in a recent HBD that I felt diffusion was very much less
important than advective displacement, which I referred to as "flushing"
during sparging.  I guess I should have said "chemical diffusion", but  no
matter.

Jack Schmidling replied in a statement
"Well, for what it's worth, I side with Al.  If for no other reason
than because the EASYMASHER works and it could not, if flushing
was the key."

1. This has nothing to do with diffusion vs. Advection, which is the original
issue, but in fact Easymasher(tm) and drains of all kinds work quite well
because physical drainage, not molecular diffusion, is the key.  Tubes have
been used to drain porous media since Roman times, and the laws of physics
have yet to be overturned by the Supreme Court.  If molecular diffusion was
the issue, a goretex bag would work better than easymasher or false bottoms or
other drains or wells.  A goretex bag is
not superior.

"If flushing was the answer, a lauter tun a mile high and the diameter
of the grist would be the ideal."

Ignoring compressibility of the grain, you're absolutely correct, or,
alternatively, infinitely wide and one grain deep would work real well, too.

"The reason an EM works is BECAUSE of diffusion.  Ponder a tube about
the size of your finger collecting ALL of the sugar from all of the
nooks and crannies of a mash tun.... six inches to the right/left, even
below it.  Upon completion of a sparge, you will find no more sugar
under it than above it.  Why?  Because of diffusion."

No, actually, the EM works because of fluid potential and drainage.  The EM is
a hole in the bucket.  Wort flows out the hole from high potential (uphill) to
low potential (downhill). The grain below the EM is still uphill of the outlet
when the bucket is full of wort and sparge water.  It flows out, too. See
Papazian's treatise on siphoning in TNCJOH for an initial cut at the physical
principals of bucket-holes.
Don't believe it?  Take your EM-equipped bucket, set it on a table, fill with
water. Place a marble or some sand near the edge of the bucket on the bottom.
Put the lid on the bucket, and without moving the bucket open the valve and
drain the water.  Take the lid off.  The sand will be near the EM! 

"It's real easy to prove.  Just measure the gravity of the last quart drawn
off.  Add another quart of hot water, stir it all up and draw another quart
and you will find the gravity exactly the same as the first (last) quart.
This of course, proves that no sugar was left behind (under, over or around
the EM).

Don't get defensive...I am by no means attacking the easymasher.  I use a
modified system (Guy's WortWell) myself. But the chemistry of lautering
doesn't change, no matter how you physically remove the wort from the grain. I
believe EM-style equipment is more efficient physically than false bottoms for
homebrew size batches because it causes sparge water to flow through the
grain, rather than drain down along the bucket/grain edge.  And I believe that
physical process (flushing and rinsing) is more important then chemical
diffusion of sugars.  I could be wrong about that, and I suspect you disagree,
too.

Cheers, 
GuyG4 at aol.com
Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
Spokane, WA

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Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:21:58 -0500
From: Grampus <grampus at InfoAve.Net>
Subject: Extract potential from rice??

Can anyone give me an idea what the extract potential of brown rice form =
the grocery store is?  Obviously after boiling and mashing to convert, =
one can extract sugars.  How much SG per gallon per pound of rice would =
one expect?

And what color intensity would brown rice impart to a batch of brew?

Thanks.

Paul Gennrich
Isp Brewing



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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:44:52 -0600
From: "Shawn Andrews" <sabrewer at fgi.net>
Subject: Munich Malt,Protien rests and such

   I had been using a pale ale malt w/Munich. On some batches I was =
using Briess 2-Row which I'm pretty sure
is not a pale "ale" malt. I was using Munich in every thing for awhile =
there, I fell in love w/it. Anyway, on my batches=20
I used the Briess 2-row my head retent. was good. On the ones I used =
Maris Otter(w/a 122 protien rest on all) I had
NO head retent. I take this to mean if I use something other than pale =
ale malt a protien rest is ok. Anyone had experience
with this? The cost of a batch would drop if I could use Briess and =
Munich instead of Maris Otter,plus I kind of like
my beers to hold a head. I just made an ESB w/no Munich, but =
biscuit,flaked barley,and 2 kinds of crystal,I'll post how that
one comes out head-wise. Keep Brewing,   Shawn



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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:09:05 -0600
From: "Shawn Andrews" <sabrewer at fgi.net>
Subject: Scotch Ales/Recipes

  Does anyone have a good recipe(tried and true) for an authentic =
Scottish Heavy? I would like to make something in
the 1080's. Please let me know specifics if smoking malt. I have access =
to a smoker, I would just need to know what
kind of wood chips to get. I have heard of peated malt, would this save =
me a lot of work best left to professionals? This
is a style I'm not even that familiar with drinking. I just feel =
obligated to make it due to my heritage.
     Thanks in advance,  Shawn Andrews
private e-mail perfectly fine



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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 01:54:32 PST
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos at hotmail.com>
Subject: Malt Extract

I was wondering if anyone could help me out about malt extracts. 
Sometimes DME can be quite expensive as opposed to liquid extract, so I 
managed to contact a company from whom I can purchase (much)cheaper bulk 
DME. They don't know anything about brewing and if their DME is suitable 
for homebrewing, so they sent me a spec sheet. Do any of you who are 
knowledgable suppose that this is suitable?

Product                :Spraymalt Amber
                       (formerly called Spraymalt B)
                       (Dried Malt Extract)
Origin:                :Muntons PLC (U.K.)
Diastatic Power        :Negligible
Colour(EBC)            :16 - 24
Moisture               :3 - 5%
Protein(Nx6.25)        :4 - 6%
Reducing Sugars        :70 - 85%
(as hydrated maltose)
Acidity(Lactic)        :1.0% max
pH                     :5 - 6


Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Greg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:54:00 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RIMS!, protein rest.

Sincere apologies to everyone for the dreaded '=20' problem
in my recent posts.
- --
Dustin H. Norlund asserts ... re RIMS vs. Other Methods

>The following are the reasons why I use a rims system.  I would be
>glad to debate any point below
[...].

It is of course impossible to debate why you use a RIMS , but ...

I take RIMS here to mean a mashing/sparging system that consists of a vessel
with a false bottom, a controlled electrical heating element and a pump
which pulls
liquid from beneath the false bottom over the heating element and back into
the vessel.
- --
Dustin is no doubt justifiably proud of his RIMS system, but goes a bit too
far in
extolling it's unique virtues.  RIMS isn't the only automatic control system
used in
brewing, tho it is the most common in homebrewing.

I personally like the idea of automatic temperature control - this is no
doubt a great boon
to brewing consistent HB.  There are a number of RIMS features that I am
still not so
happy about.  The requirements for the pumps and heating elements are
stringent and
so far I don't think many good choices are available.  A heating element
capable of boosting a sankeful at 2C/minute takes ~6200 watts
(26amps at 240vac)!
The continuous recirculation may cause flavor effects too.

I understand that in the upcoming Brewing Techniques is an article comparing
a beer made
RIMS versus decoction, including a critical tasting.  Not sure, but I
suspect this is the test
brew that Louis Bonham was involved in.  In any case I would/will be very
interested in
readnig of any such RIMS vs non-RIMS critical tasting.

======

re Kyle Druey's Protein Rest Primer

>The length of the acrospire is somewhat representative of the level of
>malt modification.

>From M&BS 2nd ed, pp 57. "The growth of the acrospire is commonly used
as a ROUGH guide to the progress of 'malting'. [...] In some malting
processes,
but not all, increasing length of the acrospire indicates the extent of the
advance of
modification.". (emphasis mine).  The idea is that acrospire length is a
good rule of
thumb, but not a religion.  Making a differential prediction of the mash
cycle needed
based on whether an acrospire length is 0.73 or 0.76 averaged over a sample
size
of 30 kernels is probably wrongheaded.

You should also be aware that the malts you compared were probably of at
least three
different varieties, each with idiosyncratic growth/malting characteristics
and that
certainly some, possibly all were treated with gibberellin, a plant growth
hormone, which distorts the rate of development of the grain, and which came
into use
after the 3/4th length rule appeared.

As for the 'bite' test -  the value of this is to test for truly unmodified
grains
(klinkers, glassy grains), and to check for hard tips, where the
modification
finishes at the end away from the rootlet.  The meaning of different
varieties,
with different original protein content having different hardness when
chewed is
less than crystal clear when it comes to the question of a protein rest.
Note that
(see M&BS 2nd ed, pp 83) high nitrogen(protein) grain actually leaves lower,
not higher levels of protein in finished beer than does low N grain, up
until the
very end of malting when the two approach the same figure.

The question of a protein rest is necessarily answered only after you
understand
the protein profile that a particular malt leaves in wort, and the potential
for haze
(which is persumeably the primary issue here) due to those specific
proteins.

>Well, there it is.  Flames are encouraged, but please provide references
Not a flame Kyle.  The Brewers' girth to inseam ratio may correlate to beer
quality,
but it is not causative.  If you want to know if you'll have hazy beer
you'll need to
measure something more relevent than malt acrospire geometry and malt
hardness.
These can only hint at the cause.

Steve Alexander



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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:37:56 +0000
From: Ed Choromanski <choroman at voicenet.com>
Subject: Would this work Re: Kegging

Hi All:

I am thinking of getting into kegging but at a slight disadvantage.  My
house has no basement and I have no room for a 2nd fridge.  I live in
Pennsylvania so during the winter months the garage is cool to cold
(yesterday it was 50 F).  What I was thinking of doing is to make a
copper tubing manifold that would be immersed in an ice bath and be
capable of cooling 70-80 F beer.  Has anyone tried this or know of
anyone?  Another issue is force carbonation.  Since I am cooling the
beer just prior to serving would I need to force carbonate at high
pressure (as per various charts seen in texts)? Or would this cause
over-carbonation once the beer is cooled to serving temp?  I guess this
has something to do with the time rate of force carbonation and that I
have no clue.

I greatly appreciate you help,
Ed


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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:48:59 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: re: Irish-American Red Ale recipe

In HBD 2624, I gave a recipe for an Irish-American ale that used 2 oz.
chocolate malt.  When I made this before, I used home roasted chocolate
malt according to a chart in an old Zymurgy, I believe, and ground it with
the rest of the grist.  I just brewed it again yesterday using boughten
choc which I ground fine in a coffee mill to get full effect.  Well, I got
full effect all right, and the wort turned out a light to medium brown.
Not terrible, but not red either.  I don't know which of my two changes did
it, but those interested in brewing this might look hard at the chocolate
and consider using only one ounce.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:47:33 +1000
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Brewers South Pole

Subject: Brewing South Pole

John Watts wrote in HBD2597:

>Now that Jeff Renner has been established as the Northern Brewing 
>Pole, we need a Southern Pole so we can get started on the 
>HomeBrewers Globe.

>I live a mere 80 miles from the "Southernmost Point in Continental US"
>monument in Key West, how's that?
>Cheers,
>Capt. Marc D. Battreall

Actually, pretty bloody poor. Last time I checked, the
"Continental US" didn't extend below the equator. So hardly the
South Pole!

There was a Tasmanian on here once - don't know if he still is,
but unless someone from Chile, Argentina, New Zealand or an
Antarctic Territory can put up their hand, then it would
have to go to a main-lander Australian.
I am at 35 deg 01' S 138 deg 44' E
so the challenge is on.

Brad
16300km (10128 miles) at 244.3deg from Ann Arbor, MI.

- --
Brad McMahon        Adelaide, South Australia         
brad at sa.apana.org.au   
PGP


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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:23:48 -0800
From: Charles Peterson <chasp at digex.net>
Subject: Monravian Pils Malt

All -

I recently picked up a few pounds of Monravian (sic) Pils malt.  I used in
a big batch of Schwartzbier, and had a very sluggish run-off from the tun.
Unusual for a double decoction.  But I did pack the grain bed a  little
tighter than normal.  And I did my initial rest at 135 instead of the 122
for poorly modified malt.  So I'm not sure if I should have rested at 122
to aid in my sparge process.

Does anyone have any experience/knowledge about this malt?  I'm about to
brew with it again, and wonder if its one of the few malts that really
needs the 122 rest.

Thanks,

Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md
- --------------------------------------------
Chas Peterson
Digex Private Networks Group
301-847-4936
chasp at digex.net

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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:27:30 -0500
From: "Tkach, Christopher" <tkach at ctron.com>
Subject: Worthy Brew Pubs in LA (that's Los Angeles)

Hi All-

I'll be heading out to sin city at the end of the
month for a conference (non-beer related, but what
can you do) and was wondering if anyone has the
skinny on some decent brewpubs.  I'll be staying
at the Westin Bonaventure if that makes any
difference.  Private email is fine...

Thanks,
 - Chris
Newmarket, NH
(somewhere east of Jeff Renner/HBD Center of the Universe)

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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:56:23 -0500
From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net>
Subject: Counter-pressure Bottlers


Top of the morning to yea all,

There are quite a few counter-pressure bottlers on the market with Melvico
being listed as either the top bottler or very nearly so.  Foxx's bottler
on the other hand has been rated rather lowly.

With a couple of dollars of cost you can convert you Foxx bottler so it
work in the same manner as the Melvico, granted it won't have the fancy
stand. =20

To convert your Foxx bottler you will need a =BC" pipe plug and a =BC" cross
and a small amount of Teflon tape.

When you lay your Foxx bottler down you will see that it looks like a tee.
There are actually two tees in the bottler.   Remove one of the valves from
the top tee and replace it with the plug.  Remember to use some of the
Teflon tape to seal the joint.  Replace the bottom tee with the cross and
install valves on either side of the cross.  Again the Teflon tape should
be used on all connections. =20

If you have not changed the valves in the unit to =BC turn valves now would
be a good time to do so, but you don't have to.

Your bottler should look like a crossed L as opposed to a T.

The way you use this bottler is different then how you used the Foxx before.

At the top you now have a plugged tee, on the other side you have a valve.
Connect the liquid line to this valve.  Connect the CO2 line to the valve
under the top valve.  The remaining valve is where you would attach the fob
line.  The fob line can be put into a bucket etc. to collect the fob.

1. Start with all valves closed.
2. Open the CO2 valve.
3. Open the fob valve, the valve on the other side of the cross. Slightly
so that you hear a soft hiss.
4. Open the liquid line fully.
5. Control the flow of the beer into the bottle with the CO2 valve.
6. Close the liquid valve when the bottle is filled to the proper level.
7. Close the CO2 line.
8. Remove the bottler and cap.

Note: There is no need to close the fob valve once it has been adjusted.

Any questions give me a shout.

Bill=20

P. S. Melvico is over $300 wholesale.  What a good deal you Foxx can be if
you convert it.





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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:03:48 +0000
From: Tim Burkhart <tburkhart at dridesign.com>
Subject: Off Flavor

I've run across an odd off flavor in my bottle conditioned beer. The only
way I can describe it is a "plastic" smell/taste that appears in the initial
sip/smell. It does not linger through the mid-aftertaste, and does not
significantly keep me from drinking (it would take a lot more than that) or
enjoying the brew. But I'd sure like to figure it out before I bottle my
next batch. 
This defect was not present before bottling. I did use a plastic fermenter,
but I used a secondary in glass after 3 days.
Could this "plastic" smell/taste be the "solvent" defect that I've read
about? Does this come about from oxidization, ie. too much head space, or
splashing?
Thanks in advance.
Tim Burkhart, Kansas City
mailto: tburkhart at dridesign.com

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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:24:47 -0600
From: "Jens B. Jorgensen" <jjorgens at bdsinc.com>
Subject: advice on fridge controller

I'm planning to control the temperature of my beer fridge with my
computer. A while back somebody mentioned something about being
careful with the cycle-time so that I don't damage the compressor
or something like that. Could any one offer some parameters like
a min-on-time and min-off-time for the compressor?

In case anyone is interested in my overall plan, I intend to use
a thermistor hooked up to an axis on the "game port". This port
measures resistance from 0 to 100K ohms (at what accuracy and
precision I have no idea). I'll control the fridge's compressor by
using a 120VAC/30A relay and trigger using either a control line
from an unused serial port or the parallel port (haven't figured
out that part yet). Please, no mail like "why not just get a
Johnson Controls controller". This is a piece of an overall plan
for a Virtual Brewery so I need computer sensing and control.

Thanks in advance,

- --
Jens B. Jorgensen
jjorgens at bdsinc dot com
Chicago, IL



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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:28:45 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Wit recipe

In HBD 2627, Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com> wrote about Kevin F.
Schramer's wit recipe:
>Your recipe looks OK but use unmalted wheat instead of wheat malt.
>Either flaked wheat or grind your own red winter wheat berries.

Good advice except that soft white winter wheat might be an even better
choice.  That's what they use in Belgium.  However, Celis uses Texas hard
red winter wheat, probably because it's local.

Wheats can be hard or soft, red or white, and winter or spring (sown in
autumn or spring).  These are independent variables, although I think all
spring wheat is hard and red.

Hard winter wheat is mostly grown from Texas north to the northern plains.
The far west frows hard wheat as well.  Spring wheat is grown in the
northern plains into Canada.  Both are good for bread, having strong gluten
(a mix of proteins), spring having stronger gluten.  Soft wheat is grown in
the midwest and Great Lakes, and the Pac NW and BC grow some soft wheat,
including a white variety from Michigan  that is good for malting.  Soft
wheats are good for cookies, pastries and biscuits, things you don't want
chewy.

In general, soft wheat has less protein than hard, and this protein is
"softer" or less glutenous, potentially making for an easier mash and lower
protein wort.  It also grinds lots easier than hard wheat.  Furthermore,
the white bran of white wheat is much lower in tannins and phenolics,
potentially making a better beer.  I like it because it gives a "softer"
texture to wit (I've tried hard red too).

Michigan (a chauvinist here?) grows most of the soft white wheat in the US,
with WI, NY and IN growing some, as well as BC and maybe WA or ID.  I've
grown some myself.  It is easy to find around here at food coops, etc.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:51:57 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: To RIMS or not to RIMS?

"RIMS are from Mars, infusions are from Venus."
Neither camp is going to convince the other, because the world-views
are so different.

So STOP, already.  RIMSers can discuss fine points of RIMSing, and
everybody else can ignore them.  OK?

Last night I visited a just-opened local brewpub/micro.  It's got a
totally automated, computer-controlled brewhouse.  Really techno-cool.
But do you still feel like you're *making beer*?  Where's the
creativity and involvement in the product?  I dunno.  (NO, DON'T
RESPOND! This is purely rhetorical musing!)

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)
25 Mi W of hbd.org

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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:59:25 -0500
From: "Michael Gerholdt" <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu>
Subject: Scotch Ale - Thanks

Thanks for the many responses I've received about Scotch Ale. My recipe was
obviously way off base as regards the grain bill, and I've learned a lot
from the messages I've received.

I'm looking forward to the results of this batch!

Thanks again,

Michael Gerholdt (WNY has never been this close to Scotland!)

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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:08:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "bern \"call me bern\" neumann" <neumbg73 at snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu>
Subject: Maibock Recipes?

Hi...

 It's Maibock time! Anyone have any good recipes they'd like to share?
I'd like to brew one before it gets to warm to brew lagers in my unheated
lagering room. 

 -bern Middlebrugh,NY
kb2ebe



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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 10:20:50 CST
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: keg lube

C. D. Pritchard and Pat Babcock spoke of the wonders of Lubri-Film and Keg Lube.
I have bought Keg Lube from Williams Brewing and like it but wondered if there
is a cheaper source.  It looks like something that should be pretty cheap if
the right source was found.  Any suggestions?

John Wilkinson - Pinching pennies in Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com

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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:33:30 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: Predicting final gravity and carbonation/packaging

     Hi all,
     
     With regards to being able to properly carbonate beer by packaging at 
     a certain gravity, Bill G. wrote:
     
     "I have been able to predict the FG within 0.002 SG in most case for 
     the recipes I have developed.  What's the big deal?"
     
     Predicting the final gravity to within 2 points is NOT adequate for 
     attaining proper carbonation.  While the bottles may not blow up, you 
     are bound to end up with considerable variation from batch to batch.
     
     The next time you are packaging beer measure the gravity before and 
     after the priming sugar addition; it's only about a 2 point 
     difference! If your predicted gravity can vary by + or - 2, you can 
     see the potential for disaster.
     
     A more accurate way of predicting final gravity for a specific batch 
     is to do a "forced fermentation" of a sample of the wort.  This can be 
     part of your wort stability test (discussed here a couple of months 
     ago).  Simply pitch an abundance of yeast into a small amount of wort 
     on brew day (the same yeast as the main ferment) and ferment it out at 
     higher than normal temp (to speed things up).  The final gravity of 
     the sample will be very close to that of the main ferment.
     
     Even the giant brewers have some batch to batch variability in their 
     beers; that is why they blend to achieve consistency.  Homebrewers are 
     prone to have much greater variability, making the accurate prediction 
     of final gravity difficult if the prediction is based only on previous 
     experience.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:56:28 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Vetical tubular false bottom, rehydrating yeast

Brewsters:

Paul Ward suggests that the use of a vertical tube screen
would be another design for a return of the wort to the =

pump which could use the RIMS design where the wort is =

pumped into the bottom of the tun and heated by a gas =

flame.

I proposed this idea of inverted direction of pumping of =

the wort in an externally heated RIMS in a private =

communication with Kyle Druey before it ever appeared =

in the HBD and he proposed this identical idea of a =

screen tube down the middle as an alternative to my =

idea of a wort puddle on the top. Do great minds run =

in the same channels or what? {8^)

My comments to Kyle at the time were that I thought a return
tube such as this reaching all the way to the bottom would =

short circuit the circulation of the wort and not allow the wort =

to have a flow all through the grain bed.  If so, this would =

set up a temperature differential.  I suggested this =

"false top" arrangement to him using a coil of tubing with =

holes or slashes along its length.  This tube could be laid =

on the top of the mash and pressed in a little or even laid =

on a piece of screen to avoid clogging.

Siphon feed of the pump could be accomplished by having =

the pump lower than the top of the grain bed.  If the pump =

were reversible, starting the siphon would be easy.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dwight Ericson wonders about the wetting out of dry =

yeast in water instead of wort, but not more than =

15 minutes.

I too was puzzled by these instructions as in the early days =

of brewing I always poured the yeast on top of the wort or =

made up a starter with wort and pitched the dry yeast directly.
I asked Lallemand ( dried yeast producers)  about the =

instructions.  Their answer is that the reason you use =

water is to avoid the osmotic pressure of the wort on =

the yeast cells as they rehydrate. Apparently this =

osmotic pressure will create "petite bodies" by =

exploding the yeast cells and these will not ferment =

properly giving off-flavors and finishing at a high OG. I

I can't say I ever experienced such an event, but I took =

their advice anyway.  Probably the most useful piece of =

advice was to sprinkle the yeast on the surface and then =

not stir for a few minutes until all the particles sink. This =

avoids the yeast clumping and you get much better yeast =

utilization.
- -----------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:22:50 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Lautering Articles at BT Website

Hi Group,
I saw Guy's post over the weekend recommending my past articles in
Brewing Techniques as resources for lautering dynamics.  Coming from a
man who knows soil hydrology, that is high praise indeed.
The most recent article on designing and using a cooler as a mash/lauter
tun ('97) is currently posted on BT's web site at
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/
It contains information on designing and building a tun, as well as
summarizing most of the fluid dynamics discussion from a previous
article (Fluid Dynamics of Lautering)  which I had co-authored in '95
with Paul Prozinski - a civil engineer.  I checked with BT and they said
that they would post that article in a week or two.  It contains
discussion of flow rates (re. Narziss), and compares simple drainage
models of an Easymasher-type, tubing manifold, and a false bottom.  It
addresses the relationship between flow rate and drain area/coverage
towards achieving the best extraction.

I hope these articles prove helpful.
John Palmer
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/

PS. My long awaited book (at least by me) should be available in July.
It will cover these topics in the All-grain brewing section.


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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:40:36 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: Polyclar and gelatin question

     Hi all,
     
     I returned from my trip to Chicago to find that my 1/2 of my Classic 
     American Pilsner was ready to drink, except that it was kind of hazy 
     (the other 1/2 of the batch got stuck 10 pts. above final gravity; go 
     figure.  Swirling the fermenter seems to have done the trick, though).
     
     In a rush to get it clear for my club's contest, I added some gelatin 
     to the secondary.  After a couple of days it didn't seem to be 
     clearing, so I thought about my options a bit:
     
     1.  Filtration:  since I don't own a filter, that's not an option
     
     2.  Add another fining agent:  this seemed reasonable.
     
     I got out the Zymurgy Winter 1995 issue and reread the nice article 
     about fining agents.  It seemed that Silicon dioxide would fit the 
     bill, but I couldn't find any, so I went with Polyclar (with much 
     hesitation I might add; adding plastic to beer doesn't thrill me, even 
     if it is Reinheitsgebot).
     
     Well, the beer is now completely hazy, much worse than before.  I know 
     that some fining agents don't really work well together.  Are gelatin 
     and Polyclar two of them?
     
     In case you need details, I used 1.2g of gelatin (Knox brand) and 8.5g 
     of Polyclar for 6 gallons of beer.  The last CAP I made cleared 
     beautifully after a similar gelatin addition.  Oh well.
     
     By the way, for those of you who remember back to Christmas time:  I 
     used whole grain organic corn meal for this brew (20% of the grist).  
     It's tough to judge head retention out of the fermenter, but it had a 
     nice Kraeusen.  The flavor of the beer is very good.  The corn 
     character is rich and has more depth than when I've used flaked maize. 
      I'll keep the group posted about the stability of the beer (there is 
     some question about the excess oil from the corn hurting stability).
     
     Note that the corn meal is 3% fat (according to the side of the 
     package).  Barley is ~2% fat, so it's not that big a difference.  
     Perhaps that's why it seems to have made a nice beer.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:10:21 -0800
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Walk In / The HBD Pale Ale Experiment

Thanks for all the replies on my walk in cooler. I plan on starting the
project soon and will report back on the final design and implementation
when complete.

I am wondering if anyone has any interest in a HBD Pale Ale experiment like
the one reported in Brewing Techniques. I would like to see a bunch of us
brew a beer from the same recipe. We could all agree to use the same
grains, hops and yeast and then submit them to the same contest for
evaluation. We would all use our standard brewing techniques, water and
equipment. We could then see how each of the systems we use fair. It would
also be fun to flood a contest with almost identical brews. Maybe we could
even get the contest picked to make a category just for the experiment.

The recipe given in BT was 74.5% pale ale, 15% crystal, 10% munich, and .5%
chocolate to an OG of 1056-1060 mashed  at  154F, with 40 ibus coming from 2
additions of Columbus at 60 & 30 mins with 2 additions of Cascade at 15 & 0
mins at a rate of 5 oz per barrel (.8 oz in 5 gallons).

So anyone game? (We'll see how RIMS out preforms single infusion kettle
mashing once and for all!).

How long have we had a Sunday digest?
John Varady                     http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady
Boneyard Brewing                The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program
Glenside, PA                    rust1d at usa.net
   


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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:17:31 PST
From: Scott Kaczorowski <kacz at nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Liquid Yeast


Vern Land tried liquid yeast and didn't like it:

> used it in place of the Edme dry in one of my favorite IPA
> recipes (all grain) and the results are awful.  I can't exactly describe
> the taste, but it is definately different to what I am used to.
> ...
> Is a London Ale "taste" that different?

The London Ale yeast (Wyeast, right?) can be interesting.  It can throw
a woody flavor that might be new to you.  It's entirely possible that it
is that different.

But that's the beauty of liquid yeasts over dry:  The variety is
tremendous.  I think my homebrew store carries six different kinds of dry
ale yeast.   All those I've tried (about 4) seem to behave in a pretty
similar manner.  Not identically, of course, but similar.  Liquid yeasts
can be had that throw all kinds of good stuff (different fruits, cloves,
etc.) that cannot be had in dry form.

You will find it difficult to brew something like a Dubbel without the
aid of a liquid yeast (Quick aside:  My current favorite for this is the
White Labs "Trappist".  Very nice plum/raisin.)

Also, did you make a starter to build up the cell count?  You really
should make a starter when using liquid yeasts, whether you are starting
from slant, smack pack, or even the so-called "pitchable" yeasts.  The
amount of yeast in even a swelled smack pack is miniscule compared to
the amount of yeast in a package of dry yeast.

If you're not making starters and haven't a clue what I'm on about,
email me back and I'll try to get you, uh, started.

> It does not appear to be infected and carbonation is fine.

How soon before fermentation set in?  If it took a while, you could
very well have an infection (or not).  Many infections are not
catastrophic and their effects can be subtle in nature.  For
example/WAG, your kitchen is probably swimming with enteric bacteria
and if some of these got in there and you got off to a slow start
they could have done some damage.  These fellows croak in the
presence of even small amounts of ethanol, and so would not continue
to spoil the beer after the onset of fermentation.

I continue to use dry yeast on occasion (I particularly like the
Windsor) because the quality is good these days and great beer can be
made with them.  However, I will not foresake liquid yeasts and I think
it's worth the effort (and it IS extra effort) for variety's sake alone.

Keep after it, Vern.  I'd like to encourage you to give it a few more
tries.  You might like what you find, and you might not.  If the latter,
then you'll know for sure.


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA
kacz at nfs.aisf.com


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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:05:10 -0500
From: ricjohnson at SURRY.NET
Subject: Bitter brew

My last (extract) brew turned out extremely bitter.  It was supposed to be
an ESB. This sent me scrambling for my calculator ( good time huh?).  I used
2oz of Northern Brewer 8.8% for bittering 1oz Cascade finishing.  According
to my calculations this is about 65 IBU's.  Is there anything I can do to
salvage this batch?  It is in a corny cold and carbonated. Can I brew
another batch with little or no hops and blend it with the bitter batch?

Richard Johnson
Mt. Airy, NC


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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:09:32 -0600
From: Kirk Lund <klund at technologist.com>
Subject: Stuck Sparge Question

I recently brewed my fourth all-grain batch and experienced my
first (and hopefully last) stuck sparge.  Could someone please
describe the major causes of a stuck sparge and how to avoid
them?


Good Cheer,
Kirk - klund at technologist.com
http://members.home.net/kirklund/

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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:37:36 -0600
From: "Dustin H. Norlund" <dustin at minibrew.com>
Subject: Yeast Exchange

Everyone	

I have mentioned this before on the Brewery board.  I would like to start a
yeast trading program.  We all could send yeast to a location, one person
could make starters or petri dish samples of each and they could be
redistributed.  If we all pitched in and did this we could ALL have a very
extensive yeast collection.  I would be willing to cordinate and make the
petri dish samples to ship.  We would have to work out some way of paying
for the dishes and shipping, but the benifits would far outweigh paying $4
to $6 bucks for each new yeast that you want to try.



Dustin Norlund
Home: (785) 838-4248
Mobile: (785) 766-3306
Department of Mechanical Engineering
University of Kansas                     
keifer at falcon.cc.ukans.edu               
http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~keifer       
http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~keifer/brewing.html


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---