---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  brewing tubing and in line oxygenation (Frank Kalcic)
  Re:Dumping Beer (David Lamotte)
  re:priming ("Joseph H. Scarborough")
  Re: U.S. vs. European malt plumpness ("Steve Alexander")
  Plastic tubing and boiling water/wort ("James Hodge")
  Bottles not Carbonating ("Steve LaMotte")
  RIMS Achilles heel (Robert Zukosky)
  NY City Spring Reg Competition (kbjohns)
  Re: RIMS Achilles heel (hollen)
  Heart of Dixie Brew-Off, March 14, 1998 ("John W. Rhymes")
  Gears for Glatt (Jack Schmidling)
  Loose ends ... ("Steve Alexander")
  Kunze on polyphenols ... ("Steve Alexander")
  Re: Top Ten Dumb Questions (fwd) (John W. Braue, III)
  chopped hbds (haafbrau1)
  Kunze letter (George_De_Piro)
  Color (Michael Satterwhite)
  Washington DC Summit Invitation ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  starter/pitching temperature (Alex Santic)
  Pyrex Boil-over Preventers (Kirk Lund)
  Unknown Yeast Strain ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  Practical Units (Phil WIlcox) (The THP)
  Hop addition,impatient meadster,champagne crowns,Irish Moss ("David R. Burley")
  2/21 Jim Anderson "Wasatch" and 2/23 davisrm "Plastic Primary" (Vachom)
  Water Heater Burner ("Michael K. Cinibulk")
  Call for Entries and Judges ("Reed,Randy")




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Date: Sat, 28 Feb 98 12:32:53 -0800
From: Frank Kalcic <fkalcic at flash.net>
Subject: brewing tubing and in line oxygenation

Fellow Brewers,

I'm currently in the process of replacing the tubing in my brewery 
thought I'd tap (love those beer references) the experience/knowledge 
of the Digest.

In my setup, the hose would transfer the wort to boiler, then from 
the boiler to the chiller and on to the fermentor.  It would also 
double as the piping for my micro version of a CIP.  Hence, the 
following properties are important

1) Heat resistant
2) Pressure resistant at high temps
3) Non Porous (long lasting)
4) Economical (only need 15 to 20 feet total)

Of course the tubing must be food grade as well.  
Good flexibility is also a plus.

When looking through the Cole Parmer and Ryan Herco 
catalogues, I came across the following materials:

Coilable Kynar tubing - <260 Deg F, <180 psi  at 70 Deg F
PTFE tubing - <500 Deg F, <137  at 70 Deg F

Both claim FDA compliance (21 CFR 177.1550) meets 
USP 23 Class IV requirements.  (this is all Greek to me, so 
I don't know if this means food grade or not)

Any thoughts on the above?  Any other suggestions? The vinyl 
(I think) stuff I've been using doesn't react too well to high temps.

The next item on my list is an inline oxygenator.  (Between the 
wort pump and fermentor)  I see two paths that I can take.  The 
first is to incorporate a SS diffusing stone to assist in the O2 uptake.  
The second route would be to bubble the O2 through a small 
tube (no diffuser) 

I know the diffusing stone will be more efficient in injecting the
O2, but it will also be an item that could potentially harbor 
the nasties (yeah, those tiny pores can cut both ways- 
i.e. tough to sanitize).  Would I be better off with a  simple 
small diameter tube that can be easily cleaned/sanitized, and  
just bubble the O2 very slowly?  Has anyone seen data on O2 
uptake when no diffuser is used?

Looking forward to brewing again,


A special thanks to Ken Schwartz for Sat's post on brewing water, 
found the information posted to be clear an concise.  Most information 
on this topic seems to be delivered in as complicated fashion as possible. 
Thanks for the simplicity.

Frank E. Kalcic
Sunnyvale, CA


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Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:33:10 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re:Dumping Beer

Randy Erickson wrote quoting Paul Masson in mistake of Paul Hocking

> >> I shall Dump No beer younger than a year...
>
> Sound advice, that.  Advice that's repeated here from time to
> time, but not often enough.
>

Well, let me add to the chant, because as I catch up on my HDB reading
for the week I am drinking an ale that initially had the harshest
phenolic taste imaginable.  It caught in the back of the throat sending
shock waves almost to the sinuses.  A bit of reading confirmed that
oversparging was probably the culprit, so I took the keg out of the
fridge while I brewed a repeat batch changing only the amount of sparge
water used.

That fixed the hash taste, but as soon as batch was gone I retasted the
hash one to find it very tasty indeed - all in a period of a month or
two.

So let's hear it a hundred times...

 ......I shall Dump No beer younger than a year...

Enjoy
David Lamotte
Brewing Down Under in Newcastle N.S.W. Australia




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Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:00:51 -0500
From: "Joseph H. Scarborough" <scarborough at boone.net>
Subject: re:priming


Glyn Crossno <Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com>responded
to what
Paul n Shelley <pracko at earthlink.net> asked:

|<<What I don't understand, and have NEVER been able to
|<<achieve, is successful natural carbonation of a beer after it has
|been
|<<in a primary and/or secondary for longer than about two weeks.
|
| RedlackC at aol.com
|>I have two suggestions. Make sure that you are using corn sugar
|instead of
|>malt extract when priming. I have found that corn sugar is more
|reliable.
|>Secondly, try increasing the amount of corn sugar that you are
|pitching.
|
|One more note, as I believe Dave D(?) and others have said, WEIGH your
|priming sugar.  I have found vast volume differences between corn
|sugar suppliers.

And just so you too canbenefit from the wisdom of Dave Draper as well as
Mark Hibberd, here are links to there documents on the subject:

http://hbd.org/~ddraper/priming.html
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/YPrimerMH.html

- --HBD
Joseph Scarborough
On the Blue Ridge in NW-NC




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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:17:27 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: U.S. vs. European malt plumpness

My now well educated friend George De Piro writes ...

- -----Original Message-----
>     Steve also mentioned that he believes that most US maltsters are at
>     the mercy of the farmers when it comes down to barley selection.  The
>     malting lectures at Siebel, given by Kurt Duecker from Schreier,
>     seemed to disagree with that.  He even told us about the maltsters
>     going to the farms at different times of year to watch over sowing,
>     harvesting, etc.

I'm afraid that being on a friendly basis with suppliers and being demanding
of the supply quality are two different things.  If US maltsters are so
damned
interested in quality why are they making 6-row crystal and *munich*.  This
may start an HBD firestorm, but IMO 6-row belongs in the gut of a quadruped
or brewed with equal parts of rice and sold to the ignorant masses.  Use of
6-row appears to be a price compromise.

For a comparison of the interest in barley quality check out the American
Malting Barley Association web site http://www.ambainc.org/linx/index.htm,
which has many links to State and US DA web sights mostly interesting
productivity and growning conditions - and usually of "feed grains".  Even
the
University sites are oriented toward feed grain issues.  The Canadian
malting
barley site http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/agdex/100/1402002.html is at least
cognizant of the problem stating ... "As Canada's share of the global export
market for malting barley and barley malt grows, the market for two-row
varieties will increase".  And has some basic information on malting
varieties
and product quality issues.

By contrast check out the British web site for the Institute of Brewing a
http://www.breworld.com/iob/index.html, which tho' a tiny and recent website
has results of a barley contest, announcement of a new barley available for
sample, results of the 1997 growing season and list of the approved barley
varieties, by region (of the UK) for the 1997-8 growing season.  They also
state ... "RAW MATERIALS -  The importance of raw materials is recognised
by the Institute Committee structure and annual competitions aro organised
by
the Institute for excellence of UK Malting Barley and of Hops. Similarly,
reports
are regularly published concerning trials and the development of new
varieties.
Close cooperation is maintained with all the establishments concerned with
such developments, with pest control and other key issues. Again the
Institute
has an interest in these subjects worldwide as well as in the UK".

These websites seem  ENTIRELY INDICATIVE of the rather loose
attitude toward barley quality in the US, or perhaps the lack of market
control
by maltsters versus the almost A-C attitude in the UK.

>    (not surprisingly) that U.S. and
>     Canadian *barleys* are the best in the world because only "spring"
>     barley is grown here in North America. [...]

That's interesting, the website above lists 7 winter and 7 spring barleys
approved for malting in the UK.  The UK spring varieties include some that
have been available for many years such as Chariot and Alexis.  Kunze
missed the boat here, unless he was referring to continental practice.

Steve Alexander




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Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:49:41 -0600
From: "James Hodge" <jdhodge at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Plastic tubing and boiling water/wort

Andrew,

Running boiling wort through plastic tubing to your wort chiller is
generally not a problem, although you will never get anyone remotely
connected with the tubing or plastic manufacturer to admit this, because of
the potential liability.  Sure the tubing will get soft at 212F, but for
your purposes it will work fine.  The reason for the lower temperature
rating is that there is also a pressure rating associated with the tubing. 
I forget what this typically is, but it is around 100 psi.  The temperature
rating is based on the temperature at which you could safely use the tubing
at the rated pressure.  Since your application would give you, at best, a
pressure of a few psi inside the tubing, there is no problem.  I have used
Tygon tubing (rated at 165F) for years for this same application with no
problems.

A few caveats are in order, however:  First, recognize that you are using
the tubing outside of its rated limits, so if something were to happen,
i.e., boiling wort spraying over yourself, small children, innocent
passers-by, etc., your legal position is pretty weak.  But, this is a
situation where care and thoughtfulness are far better protection than a
strong legal position, anyway.  The second caveat is more practical.  The
plastic tubing will be fine for your use, but pay attention to your
connections to insure that they will hold up at that temperature.  As the
tubing softens, that hose clamp or compression fitting that was solid at
room temperature may well come loose and you'll be back in the hot wort
shower mode.

Jim Hodge


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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:38:18 MST7MDT
From: "Steve LaMotte" <slamotte at psl.nmsu.edu>
Subject: Bottles not Carbonating

Hello all,

I received a new capper for Xmas, it's the same style as my very old 
one, a bench capper with auto adjustment.  The new capper cut my time 
in half.  With the old one, I had to turn the bottle 4-6 times to get it 
all crimped, and it was rather awkward to use.

I've done one batch with the new one, and the bottles are not 
carbonating.  It's been three weeks now, and all I get is an initial 
slight fizz when I pop one.  Pour it and it is FLAT!  It is a great 
tasting amber ale and I do NOT want to pour it away.  Yes, I did put 
the usual malt in for priming.  I had two others and me, very much 
remember doing it.  What I'm wondering is whether or not the new 
capper is properly sealing it, or is it pilot error?  Is pressure 
leaking out?  I started to re-crimp the caps two days ago with my 
old capper, but quit after about 12 bottles since it "felt" like no 
additional crimping was taking place.  I'm using the same generic 
gold caps I've used for the last year.  NEVER any problems, in fact, 
I've run into problems of overcarbonation before.

The new capper is the "Superagata" made in Italy by Ferrari Group.  
I greased it slightly per instructions, just as I did my old one.  Has 
anyone else experienced this before?  Some night this week I'm going 
to pop them all open, add some primer to all of them and re-cap half 
with the old one, and half with the new one.  The new batch I made 
yesterday will also be capped in a similar matter, just in case I 
infect/screw-up the re-capping effort.

Reply by private e-mail is fine.   Thanks!

Steve LaMotte
Las Cruces, NM
slamotte at psl.nmsu.edu


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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 13:43:53 -0500
From: Robert Zukosky <rzuk at IX.netcom.com>
Subject: RIMS Achilles heel

Dion
My last conversation with you was about the Morris circuit. I have put
that aside and acquired an  Omega PID. A more important concern has come
to light with the disposal of 15 gals of fine brew with a sugar char
taste that was impossible for human consumption.
Using an electrical heater element - 15 inches folded and 54 inches
unfolded capable of 5500 watts  at  240v  was used at 120 v and not
permitted to go above 156 F. Flow rate 1 gpm  of  the mash/extract and
char occurred. This was not apparent until after fermentation due to
sugar/ bitterness ratio. Brewing Techniques article comparing decoction
and rims suggests ( ref. Maillard reactions) that flowing extract
directly over an electrical element might be questioned even though many
rimsers claim a perfect process. The questions of  heat density, flow
rate, thermal conductivity, char points, varying sugar density, and
accurate measurements present a formidable challenge. I am leaning
towards a heated water heat exchanger for reasons of  the above. Since
the rims system appears to be a infant "work in progress"  I expect you
will be writing additional articles. Your article in BT is timely and
noteworthy. Your comments will be greatly appreciated.       ---- bobz



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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 14:01:56 -0500
From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net
Subject: NY City Spring Reg Competition

Entries are now being accepted for the 7th. NYC Spring Reg Comp. Deadline
is 3/19/98 Entries can 
be shipped directly or dropped off at any of the 16th drop off points in
the NY/NJ area

The prize list now totals ove $1800.00

We are also seeking judges to help with the anticipated 300 entries.

Complete details can be found at URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/
Ken Johnsen


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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 98 13:08:37 PST
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: RIMS Achilles heel

>> Robert Zukosky writes:

RZ> My last conversation with you was about the Morris circuit. I have put
RZ> that aside and acquired an  Omega PID. 

IHMO, a very good choice

RZ> A more important concern has come to light with the disposal of 15
RZ> gals of fine brew with a sugar char taste that was impossible for
RZ> human consumption.

EEEEEKKKK!!!

RZ> Using an electrical heater element - 15 inches folded and 54
RZ> inches unfolded capable of 5500 watts  at  240v was used at 120 v and
RZ> not permitted to go above 156 F. Flow rate 1 gpm of the
RZ> mash/extract and char occurred.

My heater element, the 2E767 is 5000 watts with a length of 76".
Unless the diameter of your element is quite different, we have a heat
density per linear inch like this:

mine	1250 / 76 = 16.45 watts per linear inch
yours	1375 / 54 = 25.46 wpli

This means that you are using a heat density of about 54% higher per
inch than my element.  Also, my flow rate is usually closer to 3gpm
when the system is working correctly.  These differences could account
for the problem you encountered.  Or, did you maybe somehow stop the
flow even for a short period of time with the heater on?  Have you had
this happen multiple times, or was this a one time occurrence?  If
only a one time occurrence and other batches have been fine, I would
highly suspect operator error, or a stuck mash which drastically
reduced flow rate.  That can happen, but with a lower density heater
element the chance of scorching is less likely.

RZ> The questions of heat density, flow rate, thermal conductivity,
RZ> char points, varying sugar density, and accurate measurements
RZ> present a formidable challenge.

Yes, these all have to be taken into account.  Maybe I got lucky and
made the right choices from the beginning as the only problem I have
had with scorching was one time when I had emptied the mashtun and had
left the temp controller set to low.  It turned the element on full
when the liquid in the heater chamber drained away.  Had to replace
the element, although the beer was not touched in any way since it was
already in the wort boiler.

RZ> I am leaning towards a heated water heat exchanger for reasons of
RZ> the above.

I would be the last one to dissuade you from this, but would caution
that I feel it is totally unnecessary to solve the charring problem.
And you will be creating a much more challenging set of problems due
to greatly increased thermal lag.  Temperature control will be a bitch
unless you have some way of very quickly changing the temperature or
flow rate of the heated water reservoir.  Much more complicated
process control.

RZ> Since the rims system appears to be a infant "work in progress" I
RZ> expect you will be writing additional articles. Your article in BT
RZ> is timely and noteworthy.

Thanks, but you will see no more articles on RIMS from me.  It took a
whole lot of coercion on BT's part to get me to do this one.  The only
reason I agreed was that the article is basically the first two
chapters from my book which were already written.  All I had to do was
to add some stuff and change some stuff around a little to get the
article in shape.  I am remodelling my house in preparation for moving
to Colorado in a year and once there will be building a straw bale
shop building and then a house.  I am also designing that shop and
house right now.  This will leave no time for writing articles, as if
I have any time to devote to beer, it will be to brew, which I have
not gotten a chance to do for a year now.  Thanks for your support.

dion


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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:35:10 +0000
From: "John W. Rhymes" <jwrhymes at mindspring.com>
Subject: Heart of Dixie Brew-Off, March 14, 1998

Now is the time to send your best beers to the Heart of Dixie Brew-Off
in Birmingham, Alabama!  Entries are due on March 7, 1998.  As
announced in HBD 2633, our special category is Potato Beers, with at
least 20% of the fermentables coming from some form of potato (recipes
required for this category only).

Winners of Best of Show, Best Ale, Best Lager, and Best Potato Beer
will receive handcrafted etched mirrors.  Ribbons will be awarded for
first, second, and third in each flight, and prizes will be awarded
for first place winners.  See our competition web site at
http://www.bham.net/brew/brew-off.html for rules, forms, and shipping
information, or contact jwrhymes at mindspring.com.

Judges and stewards are encouraged to join us for a great weekend.  We
are providing "Beds for Brewers" in members' homes and discounted
hotel rates, organizing a Friday night pub crawl, and hosting visiting
judges at the Birmingham Irish Cultural Society's 18th Annual St. 
Pat's Celebration on Saturday night.

John W. Rhymes -- Birmingham, Alabama
jwrhymes at mindspring.com


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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 08:14:48 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Gears for Glatt

whtltng at primenet.com (Keith W. White) says:

" Greg Egle asked about the stripped gears in his grain mill. If you
can't find Glatt-try Boston Gear in well, Boston. They have every kind,
shape and material for gears you never new existed.

Except the two needed for the Glatt.  Even if they had them off the
shelf he would learn why we charge $50 for the Gear Drive Option and
also why Glatt is no longer in business. They designed themselves
into a corner with a machine that will not work without gears and
tried to compete by using cheap plastic gears.

What's really sleazy about Gregg Glatt is taking the phone off the
hook and just leaving customers hanging.  I can still see all the
glowing praise of this guy right here on HBD.  He was treated and
praised like the Messiah, even when things started falling apart.
Maybe there really is a god.

The good news is that someone lurking on the net has made and offered
a set of replacement gears.  I have no idea what he charges or who
he is but if you keep asking, he is bound to turn up again.

js

- -- 
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........  http://ays.net/jsp
                        Astronomy.......  http://user.mc.net/arf
             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday




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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:51:33 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Loose ends ...

a/ Three cheers for Ken Schwartz' eminently practical approach to water
chemistry, and of course to AJ for his
   tireless additions to the HBD collective knowledge on water issues.

b/ For those who don't subscribe, the current BT has two fine articles on
RIMS vs Decoction and on
    Decoction vs Pressure cooked mash/wort, by HBD regulars Louis Bonham
(and Andy Thomas) and
    Spencer Thomas.  Great experimental work all around and a particularly
nice write-up by Spencer.
    Both articles open the issues that were raised here on HBD over the past
year and make a great
    first attempt to find answers.  Louis B. will have a regular
experimental column, I understand - I know
    that I'm looking forward to this very much.  Check out Dion Hollenbeck's
RIMS article too.  Great stuff.

c/  A post I made several weeks ago regarding poor results I've experienced
with distilled water storage of yeast
     was never posted.  (My mailer's to blame).  Basically - I reject the
notion that my pre-washed yeast are
     DOA, since I can pitch the yeast within a couple weeks of washing and
get 'normal' results.  I also reject
     the DWS proponents description of autolysis - it is total nonsense.
Old alcohol sotted yeast DO NOT
     somehow mutate into cannibalistic killer yeast - exuding enzymes which
breach dead yeast cells walls, but
     magically not their own.  Instead the already dead yeast, upon exposure
to heat, high pH and poor growing
     conditions, can 'rot' from the inside out, as their vacuole membranes
degrade and contained enzymes breach
     the cell walls from the inside out!  The surviving yeast may be
cannibals, but not murderers or mutants.
     The flavor of autolysis *IS* yeast bite according to M&BS, the weird
rubbery smells described in HB lit are
     probably from oxidized oils and sulfur compounds - gifts of the goddess
Rubbermaid - not directly from
     autolysis. The issue with yeast survival during DWS is probably the
amount of sterols and glycogen  available.

d/ >I thank all of *you* for making my posts and brewing knowledge better.
    >Al.
    ... writes AlK of this forum, and his experiences of the lack of review
in some HB magazines. I'd like to
    expand in this a bit.

     HBD is a completely unique forum for thought on the issues of brewing.
In many ways it is *the* premier
     forum for issues of brewing.  The impressive bit about HBD is not that
it is a source of perfect
     information, but that it is self correcting mechanism.  Please check
your ego and your titles at the door,
     HBD is perhaps the most egalitarian confederation since Noah Websters
notion of what the US
     confederation of states should be about.  Here the garage brewers can
challenge the Ph.D on matters
     of fact, and arguments regarding credentials are treated appropriately.

     I have, as have many others, posted occasional nonsense to this forum
and been taken to task..
     By this method I have learned a great deal.  Occasionally some one will
suggest that only
     well proven and documented ideas should be presented, or argue that the
relatively simple
     'newbie' questions be banned. I and certainly others have learned more
than we have taught,
     been surprised more often than we have surprised others, and become
informed more often than we
     have informed.  The questions, not the answers, are the difficult
stuff. As long as we continue to
     challenge all the accepted assertions, this will remain a healthy and
productive forum.

     Here on HBD we continue to ask the questions first,. and seek answers
and information among a
     population of several thousand amateurs.  Instead of being a model of
research and technical
     correctness, HBD is instead a stream of consciousness of the home
brewing community.

     Some challenges for HBD - 1998 -
     1/ What is the mechanism of HSA, and what is the relative importance of
oxygen, temperature and brewing
         methodology  on HSA.
     2/ Resolve the issue of temperature rests in the 45C-55C range as
regards malt properties, haze, amino
        acid content and heading  propensity of beer.
     3/ describe the distinguishing  flavor reactions of decoction brewing
and contrast with the resulting compounds
         from RIMS, p-cooking and infusion mashing.
      4/ Describe the mechanism and antecedent conditions of yeast
by-products - good & bad. Suggest general
          mechanism for control.

Steve Alexander




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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:06:12 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Kunze on polyphenols ...

Kunze, thru translation, suggests that hops polyphenols are more reactive
with proteins  than are malt polyphenols.
This also corresponds with my reading of the subject.  Hops polyphenols,
monophenolic gallates, like those in tea,
readily oxidize and combine with proteins.  The mostly biphenolic flavanoid
phenols or malt are less reactive and
compete with sugars for protein binding sites.

Steve Alexander




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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:03:25
From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III)
Subject: Re: Top Ten Dumb Questions (fwd)

This is perhaps not the best place to ask this question, but it's
the place that I have.

I *was* sure that the alleged pint by which beer is sold is the
"imputed pint".  OTOH, I'm prepared to be wrong (experience tells
me that I often am).

Would those with more experience than I (viz., none) in ordering
beer in foreign countries enlighten me?  On digest, or via private
e-mail, it's all one. 


FORWARDED MAIL -------
From: agilham at imbolc.ucc.ie (Ang Gilham)
Date: 01 Mar 98
Originally To: braue at ratsnest.win.net

> >>16 ounces to the pint/pound found
> >>in so-called "English" measurements
> >
> >In England we are not so crass as to
> >short-change our beer drinkers with
> >only 16 ounces to the pint - we have
> >20 ounces in our pints.
> >
> >As do the Canadians, South Africans
> >and Australians (when they use pints).
> 
> Is beer sold in Imperial pints.  I had thought that a "pint of
> beer" was an "imputed pint" == 12 oz.

Ugh. What a horrible concept! 

No. A pint of beer is just that, twenty fluid ounces of 
God's own drink.  

Of course there are brew pubs in the US that sell US pints
of 16 fluid ounces, but they can be forgiven on the grounds
that they are at least selling beer as opposed to super-chilled
gnats piss!

> >The American saying (quoted in "Have
> >Spacesuit, will Travel") that "A Pint's
> >a Pound the World around" is just plain
> >WRONG.

Yes, but so entertaining when one feeds unenlightened
visitors imperial pints of 6X or Old Speckled Hen ;-)

Ang

- --
John W. Braue, III                     braue at ratsnest.win.net


I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work 
miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified.



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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:14:54 -0500
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: chopped hbds

Is anybody else in the collective, especially Juno subscribers, getting
their HBDs with the last
1/2-1/3 chopped off?  My last few have been this way.  Usually if the
message is too long,
I have to copy onto text file before reading, which I usually do anyway,
to save those botulism
and proper siphoning threads 8-^)!  It's a shame to miss out on those
last 5 or so posts, as I
prefer to do my own editing.  Maybe Ken Starr is censoring my mail.  I
haven't brewed enough beer
to sleep with ML or PJ!  Oops, sorry about that tangent, now back to
important things- BEER
Paul Haaf     Somewhere in the Pinelands of South Jersey
haafbrau1 at juno.com

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:06:30 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: Kunze letter


     Hi all,
     
     WOW!  I've always known that the HBD is a great resource, but this one
     takes the cake!  I asked a question about something I read in a German
     brewing text, and received a translated reply from the author of the
     book!
     
     A tremendous thanks to our colleagues Hubert and Tidmarsh for their 
     roles in obtaining Kunze's response.  I am completely amazed!
     
     I do have some more questions, too...
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:29:56 -0600
From: Michael Satterwhite <satterwh at weblore.com>
Subject: Color

There have recently been some very good postings on the digest concerning
color - especially the comparisons between MCU and SRM. All of this has
focused on grain, however.

What methods do you suggest for calculating color contribution from
extracts? What are the pitfalls to this.


- ---Michael
"Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech"
http://www.weblore.com/soapbox


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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:31:27 -0600
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Washington DC Summit Invitation

Good Morning.

I will be in the Washington DC area next week and have previously asked on
this forum about beer places in Washington, DC. I also posted back some of
the results. Some of the replies expressed a desire, if I wanted, to get
together for a couple cold ones.

Now, I can't refuse an offer like that. Also being a social person (at
least nice), I would like to open it up to people who read this forum to
have a homebrew "summit" in the Capitol City. Of course, since I am from
out of town, I have no idea where someone could get together with such a
group.

So here's the deal: if you live close enough to DC, (or like me are there
on business) and would like to get in on this, please email me. I will
compile some info regarding the best place to go for this important
meeting, and will email the interested parties privately.

I think this could be fun, and look forward to hearing from some of you.
Replies should be in my hands before Sunday March 8.

Thanks

Jeff

- -------------------
Jeff Kenton		brewer at iastate.edu
Ames, Iowa		jkenton at iastate.edu	(515) 294 9997




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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:50:50 -0500
From: Alex Santic <alex at brainlink.com>
Subject: starter/pitching temperature

Here's an issue I've been focusing on which could probably bear some more 
discussion. The question is whether it's worthwhile to try and replicate 
commercial practice in yeast pitching temperature.

On the basis of the literature, I understand that yeast reproduction during 
the lag phase can produce significantly more off-flavors at higher 
temperatures. It's my impression that in commercial practice yeast slurry 
is pitched towards the lower end of the fermentation temperature range.

In homebrew practice, a perfectly acceptable active starter of course 
represents a much smaller amount of yeast. It seems that many or most of 
you culture your starter yeast at room temperature, or even with bottom 
heat. Is it the general consensus, then, that a homebrew batch should be 
pitched warm and then cooled down to fermentation temp? I've done a number 
of experiments now with pitching cool and haven't completely arrived at a 
conclusion as to what practice is best.

My chiller can get me down to 66 to 68 F. Limiting the discussion to ales 
for the moment, I've tried a few different strategies for pitching at this 
temperature. I've never pitched a room-temperature starter into such a 
wort, presuming that a 10 degree plunge in temperature is obviously a bad 
thing. So I've tried (a) culturing the starter at this temperature and (b) 
culturing the starter at room temperature and cooling it gradually before 
pitching.

I've gotten good fermentations with these techniques when done carefully. 
However, with typical homebrew pitching rates I find the lag time to be out 
towards 16 hours or more when starting cool. I wonder if anybody can 
comment on whether this effort is worthwhile or misdirected, or share their 
own experience.

By the way, my next batch will start cool also, but for this one I'm 
culturing a batch of yeast slurry in a 3 gallon carboy in order to get a 
strong start. Hopefully I'll have the opportunity to re-pitch for a batch 
or two to help defray the cost of the starter.

- --
A l e x   S a n t i c     Silicon Alley Brewery     New York City



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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:54:32 -0600
From: Kirk Lund <klund at technologist.com>
Subject: Pyrex Boil-over Preventers

>There is a small, specially-shaped pyrex plate which keeps the wort from
>boiling over.  At first I had my doubts, but it actually works!

I've had several off-list requests for more info on these little gems,
so I figured I should post some more info to the Digest...

They're called "boil-over preventers" and they're made by the food-prep
industry for standard kitchen use in cooking.  My local brewshop
(402-593-9171) carries one with the name "BoilSafe".  If you can't find
one locally (I haven't seen it in ANY mailorder brew catalogs either), then
call Frank at the number above and he'd be happy to send you one.  If you
do, then tell him I sent you and that you think I deserve a discount (hehe)!
Your local grocery store might also carry them.

Appearance:  About 3 inches in diameter, 1/2 inch thick.  Looks
kinda like a shallow ashtray made of pyrex.  Cost should be less
than $5.00 I think.

The reason it works has something to do with its very unique shape.  If
any one out there figures out the physics behind it, I'd love to hear
about it.


Good Cheer,
Home: kirklund at home.com
Work: klund at technologist.com
http://members.home.net/kirklund/


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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:15:57 -0500
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: Unknown Yeast Strain

Hello All,
Just got back from a trip to Colorado and while visiting one of my
favorite brewpubs I acquired about 50 ml of yeast slurry that I am
trying to get some more info on.
The strain is described by the Brewmaster as "Ringwood" and he also
referred to it as "1187". I looked it up in Fixs' Analysis of Brewing
Techniques and it mentioned Food Research Institute's Norwich NCYC 1187
and also gave an unnumbered Wyeast strain. After exhaustive research on
the Internet trying to find more info on this strain, I have drawn a
blank. 
I plan on plating, storing, and using the yeast regardless, but wanted
to at least try and pinpoint it's origin and as much info as I can. I
keep pretty detailed records of my yeast bank (call me anal!).
Any leads or info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Marc


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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:53:45 EST
From: The THP <TheTHP at aol.com>
Subject: Practical Units (Phil WIlcox)

I'd like to thank Al K for posting that 2.4 grams of refined Irish Moss is a
level TEAspoon! How practical! I don't have chemists balance, and I don't
expect to ever shell out the $150 bucks for one either. But I do expect Ill
get back into worrying about mineral content after the 1/2 bbl brewery is
functional. I stopped worrying about it because measuring was a real PITA! It
would be great to know how much a quarter TEAspoon of all the pertinent
brewing salts weighted. I realize that humidity makes using this conversion a
little sloppy, but this is home brewing not home fusion. How about it? 

Thanks to all who helped me gadgetry. I found a not quite local brew shop that
I like to frequent who had a mash screen similar to Hartland Homebrew (see ads
in BT) for $33! This beat the pants of the $100 pico and $65 sabco screens Ive
found! I think id put in more than 40 material and labor if I did that one
myself!! Moving brews will probubly get my pump order, (next paycheck) since
their prices have come down (105$ for the High temp mdl).  I dropped the kegs
off at the weld shop on Saturday and returned home to paint the rack. I will
be 1/2 bbl brewing by National Homebrew Day!!!

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog 1/2 bbl Home Brewery
Sec/Treas/Ed of The Sentencing Guide 
the Monthly newsletter of the  Prison City Brewers

PS. I am currently Web-less and am having trouble filling content. Anyone who
wishing submit articles will be sincerely thanked and sent a copy of their
printed article if published. Thanks Ed.


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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:20:12 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Hop addition,impatient meadster,champagne crowns,Irish Moss

Brewsters:

Thanks to Tidmarsh Major, Herbert Hangofer and Wolfgang
Kunze for providing the original German text and translation
implying that  first wort hopping (FWH) can lead, possibly,
to hazy beer.

Major ponders over the translation of a word "Kondensationgrad":

>higher degree of condensation [coagulation, perhaps?]

"Kondensationsgrad" is indeed the "degree of condensation".
In Chemistry when a carbon-carbon bond forms this is termed
a "condensation reaction".  In the early days of organic chemistry
( in Germany no doubt)  it is reputed that these reactions gave
off "condensation" as by-product water was formed in many of
these known at the time. "Kondensationgrad" is another way
of saying degree of polymerization or relative molecular weight.

This point is ultimately understandable as the higher the
molecular weight of a flocculant used in water clarification,
the more efficient it is. You can picture it as a larger volume
being swept out by the higher molecular weight (longer) flocculant
(polyphenol) and therefore able to contact and remove more
haze forming molecules.
- ---------------------------------------------
Charlie Burke says:

>Unfortunately, much patience is required of the meadmaker...

Not if you read what I read.  There is no reason that mead
should be so slow to ferment except that the lack of buffers
and nutrients in the honey, compared to wort or grape juice,
allows the pH to fall drastically as acids are naturally produced
by the fermentation and the yeast cannot operate well at such
a low pH. By adding nutrients and adjusting the pH during the
fermentation, mead can be finished in a couple of weeks.
Check out the mead digest for details.
- -----------------------------------------------
Ed Basgall asks:

> does any one have a source for
>the large Champagne bottle sized 29mm crown caps?

Try Shirley at Country Wines in Pittsburgh. PA
412-366-0151 fone or 9809 for fax.
No affiliation, just a happy customer. Say HI for me.
- -----------------------------------------------
AlK determined that the correct amount of Irish Moss refined
flakes was around a teaspoon or less depending on the OG
based on George Fix's earlier work , recommendations from
suppliers and his own work and says:

>I wish I had my copy of Dr. Fix's new book here...

In Dr. Fix's newest book he recommends a tablespoon.
When I suggested that this might be a mis-print here in HBD
and that he had intended to say a teaspoon, he commented
to me privately that he did in fact mean a tablespoon.

No explanation as to why the discrepancy with his past work
and recommendation of the industry.
- ------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:55:35 -0600
From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: 2/21 Jim Anderson "Wasatch" and 2/23 davisrm "Plastic Primary"

	Jim Anderson's mention of Wasatch beers provided a nostalgia blast: 
About ten years ago now, much to my parents' chagrin, I ski-bummed in
Park City for a year .  One of the guys who shared our rented house up
on Parley's Summit worked at the brewery, and I worked there on occasion
too when they needed an extra hand.  As the temp flunkie, my job was
invariably label quality control (de-gumming the gluer) or general
lugging, but I enjoyed every second of it.  The people at the brewery (a
metal pole barn out near the high school) then were some excellent
folks; the brewmaster remains a kind of hero to me:  an awesome telemark
skier who learned brewing and white water raft guiding in order to live
a meaningful life in this idyllic location.  Too lazy and unimaginative
to create a reason to remain in Park City, I worked restaurant jobs
until the disparity between the awesome scenery and my guilt over my
rotting brain mocked me out of town.
	Perhaps a strong contributor to my lack of ambition was the keg of
excellent Wasatch beer that sat on the porch year-round.  Part of the
wacky Mormon liquor laws of the time forced brewers to date and sell
batches inside of a time frame.  Instead of dumping the kegs (the
horror!) the brewery frequently gave them to employees.  And so it was,
after a long day of slinging hash in the morning and skiiing all
afternoon, that we had a virtually endless supply of Wasatch's
chocolately porter or gingery Xmas brew or signature pale ale. It seemed
to me that the lower level of alcohol of the beer was made up by the
fact that we were at or about 6,000 feet all the time.

About davisrm's "platic primary" post 2/23.  I too have a plastic
primary bucket that's been through many batches--about 15 at present. 
But I know that it needs replacing.  Food grade plastic is porous and no
amount of scrubbing and bleaching will make it "clean." Sometimes I
think that this might be a good thing--in the same way that a
well-seasoned cast iron skillet or wok is better than any teflon,
calphalon, whatever cookware.  But more frequently, I'm guessing that
the Cascade flavor of my last dry-hopped IPA is going to find it's way
into the Oktoberfest.  Plastic buckets are cheap; I think I'll replace
mine soon.



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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 98 14:36:13 -0500
From: "Michael K. Cinibulk" <cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: Water Heater Burner

In the past many HBDers have mentioned using a burner from a gas water heater 
for brewing purposes. I am interested in  creating a cooker out of such a 
burner since my I just replaced my old water heater. It looks ideally suited. 
Any web sites showing one of these creations or, better yet, instructions on 
building one?

Mike Cinibulk
Bellbrook, Ohio
cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.m O


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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:06:01 -0500
From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed at foxboro.com>
Subject: Call for Entries and Judges

South Shore Brewoff Homebrew Competition Dedicated to Quality Feedback
The third annual South Shore Brewoff will be held about an hour south of 
Boston, in Cranston RI, just off Interstate 95. The deadline for entries is 
March 21st, and the actual event will be March 28th.  We expect a 
significant increase in entries due to an increase in convenient drop off 
points. Great food and a thank you gift will be given to those who 
pre-register and work the event.

The goal of the competition is to provide amateur brewers with quality 
objective feedback on their efforts. Our club has a number of national, 
certified, and recognized BJCP judges among our ranks, but we need 
assistance from other clubs to get all the judging done.

Please consider entering and/or judging our event. All drop off points are 
stocked with entry forms:

Witches Brew - Foxboro, MA
Boston Brewin' - Beverly, MA
Northeast Brewers Supply - Providence, RI
Pawtucket Homebrewing Supply - Pawtucket, RI
Hoppy Brewer - Seekonk, MA 02771
Barley Malt & Vine - Newton, MA 02161
Narragansett Homebrew Supply - Wakefield, RI 02879
Brew Horizons - Coventry, RI 02816
The Modern Brewer - Cambridge, MA 02140
The Vineyard - Upton, MA 01568

Interested in judging or stewarding? Contact Stephen Rose at 508- 821-4152 
for entry forms. Only pre-registered staff can attend. Any questions about 
the competition regulation, procedures, awards, etc., should be answered by 
the entry forms or can be directed to:

Glenn Markel 508-226-3249 or (GRMARKEL at aol.com)
Randy Reed 781-341-8170 (RREED at Foxboro.com)

Hope to see you there!




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---