---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  High temperature pumps (Harlan Bauer)
  re: inductive heating and RIMS (John_E_Schnupp)
  Wort Pump & boiling temps ("Raymond Johnson")
  Shredded Post (haafbrau1)
  competition cheating? / MovingBrews / pumps rated for boiling te ("Keith Royster")
  Re: Dangers of under pitching / aeration (George_De_Piro)
  Driving me Buggy ("David Johnson")
  Starting the starter (Jay Spies)
  Airless PETs, drunken judges, electrocution, bactine, dear deer beer ammo (Samuel Mize)
  yeast pitching rates (David Kerr)
  Re: AHA Competition question (Amahl Turczyn)
  Electric Brewing / Gott Coolers (KennyEddy)
  A Good Chimay Recipe? ("Brian & Fran")
  RE: Where to find a good wort pump .. .. .. ("Matthew J. Harper")
  Moisture content of malt / Pilsner malt kilning schedule (George_De_Piro)
  RE: Boiling temps and pumps (Robert Arguello)
  RE: Gott conversion (Robert Arguello)
  Defective pump impeller housing?? (Kenneth Sullivan)
  sticky bench capper (Mike Spinelli)
  Humor? (John Wilkinson)
  Pouring Technique and Head Retention ("Ludwig's")
  beer label removal (again) (Jeff Poretsky)
  re: Yeast Pitching rates (Daniel S McConnell)
  Channelling, Cutting, Stuck Sparge... (Jim Cave)
  Sounds like an opening to me! (Al Czajkowski)
  Pumps ("John S. Thomas")
  Eric Fouch and civility (AlannnnT)
  calling it quits (Jeff Sturman)
  Pin Lock Keg Woes ("Randy A. Shreve")


BURP's Spirit of Free Beer competition is June 6-7 and entry information
is available by contacting Jay Adams (adams at burp.org).


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:11:52 -0500
From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: High temperature pumps

Someone asked a couple of days ago about high temperature pumps. Talk to
Bill Stewart at MOVING BREWS <estewart at idt.net>. He sells quite a few
configurations including at least one that can handle boiling liquids made
of polysulphone. All mag-drive. I've used mine to do a CIP with PBW and hot
acid at around 170-180*F, as well as transfer boiling liquor from my HL
tank, and to push boiling wort thru my CF-HE. I have no financial interest,
but I have thoroughly enjoyed doing business with Bill. BTW, he also has all
kinds of really neat SS stuff...

Hope this helps,   
Harlan.


          Harlan Bauer             ...malt does more than Milton can
          Carbondale, IL              To justify God's ways to man.
       <blacksab at midwest.net>                        --A.E. Houseman
                
   



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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:34:59 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: inductive heating and RIMS

>I rather suspect that
>you will find that the losses due to resistive heating in the induction
>coil and in the variac (Which is not nearly as efficent as a regular
>transformer) will make this a very inefficient process overall.

If you build something like this the local power company may just
give you special recognition for making large periodic monetary
contributions to their business.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:16:44 -0400
From: "Raymond Johnson" <JOHNSONR2 at state.mi.us>
Subject: Wort Pump & boiling temps

In response to rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald), when he asks the 
question; "...why you need to handle temps up to boiling."

Why not boiling temps?  Why not plan for all the possibilities?  I have a 
March pump, and it's rated to handle boiling temps.  My pump needs  to be 
able to handle boiling wort because I use a counter-flow chiller.  I boil 
12 gallon batches, and I'm not about to carry the kettle outside and hose 
it down--I'd blow a nut!

By using the pump to send boiling hot wort through the CF chiller(before 
starting the water), the coils can be sanitized, and the wort returned to 
the kettle before starting the whirlpool.  Anyone who has plans to 
purchase a pump, should do themselves a favor and get one that handles 
boiling temps.  For the difference in price, it ain't worth the pain of 
regret should the need arise for a pump that can.

Just friendly advice from a guy who's been there--cheers.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:34:48 -0400
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: Shredded Post

My wonderful e-mail carrier is shredding the HBD to shreds - AGAIN. 
Would someone please forward me the post marked -Homebrew, NOT Quayle and
PET bottles and oxidation.  I've had much more than that chopped off, but
these two pique my interest.  These are both from HBD2717.
Also, my apologies for the blatent ad for Juno that my carrier will tack
onto my post without permission. 

Beer, it does a body good.
Paul Haaf
haafbrau1 at juno.com

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:46:35 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith at ays.net>
Subject: competition cheating? / MovingBrews / pumps rated for boiling te

Hello fellow brewers! I have a question about brewing that I don't 
think I've ever seen posted here in the digest. I recently made a 
simple mead which turned out nicely, but a bit plain for my tastes.  
So I decided to spruce it up a bit by adding a 12oz bottle of 
grenadine and a few cups of some fruit flavored liqueurs, which 
turned out nicely I think.  My question is, what if I decided to 
enter this mead (or similarly doctored brew) in a competition?  Does 
that fact that I added a *pre-fermented* beverage to my mead/brew 
preclude it from being entered in a competition?  Or would it not be 
considered cheating as long as I kept it below a certain level?

- ----------------

Bradd Wheeler asks about RIMS pumps and gets a lot of replies 
suggesting he try MovingBrews, then asks about where to find electric 
heating elements.  I know from talking with Bill Stewart (owner of 
MovingBrews) that he is working on adding a RIMS heating chamber to 
his catalog.  I don't remember if he will be including the element or 
not, but I think he may so ask him.  He sells a lot of things not 
listed in his catalog, and can get just about anything else you ask 
for. http://www.ays.net/movingbrews/ (I wrote his web page but 
otherwise have no financial interests.)

- ----------------

Ronald La Borde respondes to Bradd and can't understand why anyone 
would want a pump rated for boiling temps.  Perhaps Bradd is 
interested in pumping his hot wort straight from the kettle through a 
CF-chiller, or maybe he plans on recirculating the wort in his kettle 
across an immersion chiller.  I've tried both with some success but 
always have to prechill my kettle first since my pump is only rated 
for 180dF.  It would be nice to have one rated for boiling temps.


Keith Royster <keith at ays.net>
Mooresville, NC, USA

"In the beginning, there was nothing - but nothing is unstable.  
And nothing borrowed nothing from nothing, within the limits of
uncertainty, and became something. The rest is just math..."
- --Paraphrased from Prof. Kim Macalester College Physics Dept. 


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:57:13 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: Re: Dangers of under pitching / aeration

     Hi all,
     
     I seemed to confuse Don with my last post.  I recommend pitching a 
     yeast *starter* of volume about equal to 10% of the batch size.  Don 
     then compared that to the 80 mL of yeast *solids* that he says Fix 
     recommends.  0.5 gallon (1.8L) of yeast slurry (or solids) would 
     certainly be a lot for a 5 gal. (19L) batch!!!  You would have a 
     really quick fermentation, though...
     
     Pitching a Wyeast pack (even their new larger ones) into a 19 L (5 
     gal.) batch is entirely inadequate.  Yes, you can make beer that way 
     (I'd bet we all have at some point), but the odds of it being truly 
     great are somewhat slimmer than if you pitch a healthy starter 
     culture.
     
     John Varady's pale ale experimenters all pitched a single, swelled, 
     large-size Wyeast pack and they all experienced pretty damn long lag 
     times (on the order of days).  That's never a good thing.  Several of 
     them ended up with finishing gravities quite a bit higher than they 
     expected, too.  Perhaps John would care to comment on the details?
     
     Manipulating pitching rates to control beer character is a tricky 
     process.  At home, without a microscope and hemacytometer, this would 
     most likely produce highly inconsistent results.  Nobody at Siebel 
     recommended manipulating pitching rates as a means of controlling beer 
     character.  The results would just be too inconsistent.
     
     On aeration:
     
     Tracy A.'s BT article stresses that if you underpitch, you have got to 
     aerate.  Almost all homebrewers are underpitching, and should 
     therefore aerate.
     
     I mentioned earlier that some brewers claim to manipulate aeration 
     parameters as a means of controlling yeast growth (and thus beer 
     character).  South African Breweries is one such brewer.  This method 
     is not without consequences:  they don't harvest and repitch the yeast 
     thus treated.  Why not?  Read on:
     
     Yeast use oxygen to build sterols, which are important to the cell 
     membrane.  Yeast can only contain ~1% sterol, and they need a minimum 
     of 0.1% to remain viable and healthy.  What does this mean to you?
     
     When you provide the yeast oxygen at pitching time, they build up 
     their sterol levels to 1%.  The yeast then start to divide.  With each 
     division, their sterol level drops by about half.  Since you 
     (hopefully) are not aerating the wort continuously during 
     fermentation, the yeast cannot make any more sterol.  After 3 
     divisions the yeast cells will be at ~0.125% sterol.  Since they need 
     at least 0.1%, they will not be able to divide further.
     
     That is why you get about 3 times as much yeast out of a fermenter as 
     you put in it.  They can only divide 3 times before they have to stop 
     because of sterol limitations (unless you provide them with more 
     oxygen, like you might do when building large starters).
     
     Perhaps now it is becoming clear why under-pitching, especially when 
     under-aerating, is so bad.  You end up with fewer yeast cells in the 
     end, and they aren't the healthiest, most viable cells, either.  This 
     is why you get a long or stuck fermentation when under-pitching.
     
     Why mess with this kind of stuff in the relatively uncontrolled 
     environment of the small brewery?  It is so easy to make a 0.5 gallon 
     yeast starter that it is almost inexcusable not to.  Aeration of the 
     wort is another really easy trick.  You can improve the quality of 
     your beer very dramatically with these simple techniques.  I dare say 
     that these two variables are the *most important factors* in improving 
     your beer.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:24:30 -0500
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com>
Subject: Driving me Buggy

Brewers,
	I have acquired a slight problem. I typically store fruit and vegetables
in an area in my basement which is adjacent to the area I brew in. It also
happens to be the area where I cellar my beer and wine. This winter, the
onions, carrots and potatoes have become infested with fruit flies.  I have
gotten rid of the fruit and vegetables but the flies have not figured out
where they want to go. I don't really want to brew until I have  gotten rid
of them. Any suggestions? I have gotten the potential food sources and
breeding sites cleared up but they are just hanging around.  I have
considered the "no-pest-strips" but they are not to be used around food
storage. The only thing left in that room are capped beer and corked wine.
Can the insecticide permeate the corks?
	The flies seem to enjoy the computer screen ......SWAT!
	Dave 


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:40:01 -0700
From: Jay Spies <spiesjl at mda.state.md.us>
Subject: Starting the starter

All -

I recently acquired a 2000ml Erlenmyer flask to use in preparing yeast
starters, and although the convenience is nice (boil and pitch in the
same vessel), I am having a hell of a time trying to figure out the
correct ratio of DME to water.  I would like to start out with between
800 and 1000 ml of water.  How much light DME should I add to this to
make the appropriate (~1.035) starter wort?  I have been using about 3/4
cup of DME to 1000 ml, and my starters never seem to be active until I
add almost another whole cup of DME.  This just doesn't seem right.
Also, when doing a second step-up, should I decant the liquid on top and
add new wort, or just dump the new wort on top of the existing starter
solution?  Lastly, should the second step-up be higher gravity, or the
same?  TIA . . .

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore, MD




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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:54:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Airless PETs, drunken judges, electrocution, bactine, dear deer beer ammo

Greetings to all, and especially to:

 - - - - -
> From:  C. Erik Larson
> Subject:  PET Bottles and Oxidation

This reminds me.  The last few times I've tried to search the archives
via hbd.org (http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/cgi-bin/dothread),
I've gotten "server down or not responding."  Have we lost that great
resource?

He asks, is it true:
>    So long as I keep up the pressure with the Carbonators, the beer will
>    not oxidize."

Each gas responds to its own partial pressure.  If there's no O2 in
the bottle, there's no O2 pressure, no matter how much CO2 pressure
there is.  O2 will diffuse into the bottle.  PET bottles are good for
about six months of storage (the rough consensus on rec.crafts.brewing,
which tallies with my own experience).

 - - - - -
> From: Christopher Peterson <peterson at ucmg65.med.UC.EDU>
> Subject: AHA competition question

> few beers make it to the final round. Is one beer enough? How many judges
> actually evaluate each entry in the first round? Any other info appreciated. 

Well, one judge doesn't pound down the entire beer!  One beer can
easily serve three to four judges, who at most competitions will be
together at a table.

 - - - - -
> From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
> Subject: RE: Primary Control/Flavor Kits/Sulfur

> Any apparatus can be dangerous, propane can explode, burn your clothes,
> all life is a risk, breathing Mexican fire haze is bad also, but we go
> on and breathe anyhow.  We survive.

Well, yeah, we do, until we don't.

I'd just as soon go with proven concepts and commercial components,
myself, in something carrying a strong electrical current.

Anyone AJ can discourage probably SHOULD be discouraged from tinkering
up a home-built heating transformer dingus.  We don't want someone
half-taught to fry himself because "it sounded so easy..."

 - - - - -
> From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS at gc.maricopa.edu>
> Subject: Maybe Bactine would help?

> of *very slow* infection.  It's a whitish slick that's covered about half of 
> the top surface over the course of a month or so.

Oh no!  It's botulism!  FLEE THE CITY!!!!!

> I'm wondering if I go ahead and keg 
> it, removing "most" available oxygen, if the wee beasties might stop in their
> tracks?  Are there other measures available, short of just drinking 5 gallons
> of huge beer ASAP? (I can do that if I must).  Any help appreciated!

You could pasteurize it, especially since you keg (and so could
force-carbonate it).  Take it up to 170F, then cool it rapidly.

Rapid cooling to below 80F is an important part of pasteurization --
it keeps any remaining bacteria from multiplying back to problem levels.

And, if you "must," you'll get mead.  :-)

 - - - - -
> From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com
> Subject: DMS/Channels/GOTTS/Deer Bullets

> As far as deer bullets go, MADwand has got the right idea

Jethro had mentioned BEER bullets.  MADwand asked if the poster was
out of bullets -- I thought he meant the poster could buy the deer a
few rounds so they'd leave the hops alone, if the spouse allowed it.

Best,
Sam Mize

- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Multi-part MIME message: " ", " ", " " (hands waving)
Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:03:05 -0400
From: David Kerr <dkerr at semc.org>
Subject: yeast pitching rates

Don Van Valkenburg comments/asks:
"George Fix says we should use we should use 400 ml of yeast solids per
Hectoliter (1 hectoliter = 26.42 gal.) which is about (correct me if my
math is wrong) 80 ml per 5 gal. and George De Piro says about 1/2 gal
per 5 gal.  --that's A LOT yeast. "

I believe that George De Piro was talking about the size of the
*starter*, while George Fix was talking yeast *solids*

Dave Kerr - Needham, MA "Solid, man." - Linc Hayes


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:30:58 -0600
From: Amahl Turczyn <amahl at aob.org>
Subject: Re: AHA Competition question

I sent a couple of beers to the national AHA competition this
year (first time). I thought it was strange that they request only one
beer for the first round, but three for the finals. This seems backwards
to me since so few beers make it to the final round. Is one beer enough?
How many judges actually evaluate each entry in the first round? Any
other info appreciated. 

Christopher Peterson
peterson at molgen.uc.edu

Christopher,

The main reason we only allow one bottle for the first round is to
maintain the sanity of the few souls brave enough to volunteer their
time and effort at the first round sites; Roger Deschner and his crew in
Chicago, for example, just finished sorting the 531 entries they
received, and they only had three states.  That sort of volume would be
exceedingly difficult with three or even two bottles.

Generally, first round sites conduct their judging with 40-60 judges,
then at the second round, 100 or so judges attack about 580 second-round
qualifying entries.  At this point, the numbers are manageable enough to
accept three bottles so that judges may do a "mini" best of show and
then a best of show round.

Good luck with your entries,

Amahl Turczyn
(Amil Turnkey...?)
AHA


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:26:44 EDT
From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com>
Subject: Electric Brewing / Gott Coolers

Bradd Wheeler asks about using electricity to brew his 15-gal batches.

Looks like it's time to fire up the semi-annual electric brewing thread
again...

An approximation of power required to heat a volume of water is

Watts = 150 * gallons * (degrees per minutes)

Bradd would like to use a single-phase 120V line; let's say he can dedicate a
20 amp line so with a small margin of safety let's say 18 amps, so that's 120
x 18 = 2160W max.

2160 = 150 * 15 * degrees/minute

So your 15 gallons would warm at a bit less than 1 degree per minute.  Much
slower if you don't insulate the vessel.  Your room temperature strike water
would take close to 2 hours to warm up, and sparged wort would take well over
an hour to reach boiling.

Next you can do what I did, which is to split the 240V dryer (or range)
circuit into two dedicated 120V circuits and slap a $5 20A GFI on each branch.
Hang a similar heater on each side and now you're closer to reality with a
1-hour heat-up time.

Or you could go straight 240V but this would require a panel-installed GFI
which is neither cheap to buy nor to have installed.

Another issue to consider is the "power density" of the elements.  This is
simply the power divided by the surface area of the element.  My elements run
at about 25 watts per square inch without any apparent ill effects.  Off the
top of my head I would guess you could get away with up to 50 without serious
damage to your wort but above that I'd be careful.

Finally, you have to deal with controlling the elements.  Simple on-off
control is great if you're lucky enough to get the right level of boiling
action without a boilover.  Chances are though that you'll need to throttle
one element as a "fine adjust" of the boiling vigor.  Hi-power dimmer switches
can be found but are somewhat expensive.  Simple switched-diode controllers
can be used with some success but only offer off/half/full power control.

In any case, the answer is "anything is possible" but you really need to look
at the details.  See my web page http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy for
information on my Electric Brewery if you want to see how it was done at my
house.

*****

I suppose the Gotts are hard to come by locally right now since the summer
picnic season is just getting underway.  By Memorial Day the stores should be
filled with them.  But before you spring for the 10-gallon unit for 5-gallon
batches, see if they still plan to offer the 7-gallon cooler.  It's the same
diameter as the 10-gallon so all the Phittings will still Phit, yet it will
probably hold the temperature better than the 10-gallon cooler when the
typical 10 - 12 pounds of grain is used.  Plus, when I Gott mine last summer,
it was only $20 (compared to $40 for the 10-gallon).

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy



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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:22:25 -0400
From: "Brian & Fran" <brian-fran at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: A Good Chimay Recipe?

Does anyone have a Good Chimay recipe?
I'm also looking for a Biere De Garde recipe.  
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
Brian
brian-fran at worldnet.att.net




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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:47:53 -0400
From: "Matthew J. Harper" <matth at progress.com>
Subject: RE: Where to find a good wort pump .. .. ..

Ron LaBorde asks of Bradd Wheeler:


>>I desire a pump to
>>handle temps up to boiling, as well as a wide range of PH for cleaning.
>>The meat of my question?  Where did you get your pumps, and do you use
>>them as wort pumps as well as hot-liquor\recirc pumps?

>I wonder why you need to handle temps up to boiling. 

>>My intentions are to use this pump for
>>recirculation, sparge, whirlpool, as well as knockout, the whole deal.

>Let's see:
>    Recirculation, well, at most mashout 170f, not boiling.
>    Sparge, about same, 170, or so.
>    Whirlpool, hmm, maybe, if you hose down the boiling kettle just
>after knockout, you can quickly drop 10 degrees off in seconds.
>
>I have heard others mention boiling temps, but I can not find a need,
>maybe there is some reason, but I can not reason why.

I too am looking for a pump that supports higher temperatures, preferably
up to boiling, for at least two (2)  reasons:

1. Lets me use hotter water & fluids for cleaning the pump & brew-time
   distribution lines

2. It's always been my practice to work with the best range of any tool
   possible.  A higher temp handling capability leaves me with one less
   thing to worry about should I need to push it beyond the normal 170
   degrees or so for any other reason.

Where to get it from:

'Moving Brews' (no affiliation, blah blah blah) has two pumps in the range,
slightly < $100 and slightly > $100.  The price difference for NOT getting
that range capability is, in my book, chump change at around $20.  Their
stuff looks pretty good, though I have had a little bit of trouble getting
them on the phone.

Get the best tool you can afford.  Motto hasn't failed me yet!
(At least, not since college when I couldn't afford much... :-)


 -Matth


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:02:43 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: Moisture content of malt / Pilsner malt kilning schedule

     Hi all,
     
     Figuring out the moisture content of malt (or any solid) is really 
     quite easy.  Take the malt.  Weigh it.  Put it in a toaster oven at 
     about 250F (121C).  Wait 30 minutes or so.  Weigh it.  Repeat until 
     the weight doesn't change.
     
     You may safely assume the weight the malt lost was water (unless you 
     cranked the heat too high and scorched it).  If you want to speed up 
     the process, grind the malt, then perform the above procedure.  Be 
     careful not to burn the malt!
     
     Note that it helps to have a balance with at least 0.1 g resolution.
     ------------------------------
     I don't have the analytical stats on my malt yet, so if you follow any 
     of my kilning schedules, you do so at your own risk.  Also, my notes 
     aren't here, so this is just an approximation (a good one, though).  
     The whole detailed mess will have to wait for the BT article.
     
     Making pils malt was very easy.  I simply dried the malt down to <5% 
     moisture in a 87F (30.6C) room with a fan blowing the warm, dry air 
     over the malt (which was spread out in quite a shallow layer).  I then 
     put it in my oven which was set for 220F or so, but the malt never got 
     hotter than 168F (75.5C).  I left the malt in there for a couple of 
     hours.  My criteria for determining when it was done was to taste and 
     smell it.
     
     I turned it often.  It was spread out in layers about 2 inches (5 cm) 
     deep in aluminum catering pans.
     
     The malt ended up looking pretty light in color.  The endosperm is 
     bright white and chalky.  It is fairly soft to the tooth.  It tastes 
     and smells a lot like pils malt!
     
     If one were really adventurous, you could forego the oven kilning step 
     and use the malt after the low-temperature (87F, 30.5C) drying step.  
     This would then be called "wind malt," and would be the absolute 
     lightest color malt you could find.  It could be interesting in a 
     light lager; an all malt, full-flavored beer that's as light in color 
     as a MegaSwill 50% rice brew...hmmm...
     
     The reason I didn't do this is that the low-temp malt had quite a 
     "green" aroma to it.  It smelled like acetaldehyde and mown grass; not 
     unpleasant, but I don't think I'm ready to brew with that much courage 
     yet.
     
     The pilsner malt schedule I just told you is quite a bit different 
     from commercial maltings.  It took several days for the malt to get to 
     5% moisture at 87F (30.5C), which isn't great if you're trying to make 
     money.  I am also wondering how much beta-glucanase and 
     peptidase/protease activity I got at that low a temperature.  The 
     analysis will tell for sure, but the malt is so soft that I'd bet it's 
     really well modified.
     
     I am reluctant to post the Munich malt schedule I used, simply because 
     the malt tastes overdone.  If the analysis and subsequent brewing work 
     out decently, I'll report back.  Otherwise, you'll have to wait for my 
     second attempt.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Subject: RE: Boiling temps and pumps

Ronald LaBorde was wondering why anyone would need a pump that could handle
boiling temperatures....


As one example, I use the pump in my RIMS to fill my fermenter directly from
the boiler. Before I do so, I run boiling wort through the pump for a few
minutes to sanitize the pump and lines.

My pump is a "Lil Giant" rated to 200 deg F. It will, however handle 212 F.
for short periods. I saw a mag pump at "Moving Brews" rated to 250 deg F and
for less money than I paid for the one I have.
		         	"All In A Day's Wort"
Robert Arguello 
robertac at calweb.com
CORNY KEGS FOR SALE!  $12.00 each
See them at http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/keg.htm



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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Subject: RE: Gott conversion

Bert Rehm asks about gott cooler/phalse bottom/drain assembly....

Bert, go to http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/bulkdesc.htm

There you will find a design and parts list for a bulkhead with spigot for
gott coolers.
Assembled carefully, it won't leak.

NOTE: The diagram shows the nipple, (part #5 in the diagram), to be 1 1/2
inches long.  Better to use a 1 inch nipple.
		         	"All In A Day's Wort"
Robert Arguello 
robertac at calweb.com
CORNY KEGS FOR SALE!  $12.00 each
See them at http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/keg.htm



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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:34:05 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kenneth Sullivan <kenneth.sullivan at Central.Sun.COM>
Subject: Defective pump impeller housing??

Fellow RIMSers,

I ordered a March magnetic pump from a C&H Sales.  There was a
label which said to get maximum life out of the pump I should
keep the impeller housing filled with water.  Since I'm still
building my RIMS, I haven't put it to use yet nor found a way to
keep the pump filled with water.  After a month, I noticed a
gap in the seal between the two screws spaced wider apart than
the others.  It doesn't look like it will hold water now!
Is this a defect? Can it be fixed by soaking the impeller housing?
Has anyone seen this before?  This is the second pump I ordered
from them, the first one arrived with a gap and I sent it back.
Can I get replacement parts from March?  Tightening the screws
down won't eliminate the gap.  Maybe a gasket or O-ring?


KJ Sullivan, Kernel Support Engineer
Sun MicroSystems Customer Call Center
kjsulli at central.sun.com



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Date: Tue, 19 May 98 11:20:21 est
From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: sticky bench capper

HBDers,

I've got one of those italian red bench cappers that is beginning
to be a PITA.  When I bring the capper down on a bottle, it 
won't let go of the bottle.  I don;t know if it's the capper or the
brand of caps I use (gold type).

Thanks

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ



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Date: Tue, 19 May 98 10:58:05 CDT
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Humor?

Sorry to get the Quayle thing started.  Just my feeble attempt at humor.
Let's not be serious about anything but beer here.  Maybe not too serious
about that.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:11:10 -0400
From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net>
Subject: Pouring Technique and Head Retention

George De Piro says:
>  Kunze doesn't talk about this phenomena, though.  He talks something 
>      that I never considered:  the serving procedure.
>      
>      He points out that when the beer is poured, and the partially filled 
>      glass is allowed to settle a minute or so, the surface of the foam 
>      will become the skins I mentioned earlier, and thus help trap more gas 
>      than the liquid bubbles beneath.  The glass can then be topped off, 
>      and a more stable head of partially solidified foam will result.  He 
>      then talks a bit about the solid bubbles forming lace on the sides of 
>      the glass.

That's interesting! I just watched part of a show last night and they
asked a bartender in Ireland how he "properly" poured a pint of
guinness. He poured with the glass tilted to about 3/4 full. Sat it down
for 30 seconds, then continued the pour untilted. Any connection?

Dave Ludwig
Flat Iron Brewery
So MD


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:31:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Poretsky <jeffp at access.digex.net>
Subject: beer label removal (again)

A question for the list.  

I was collecting bottles of beers that I've had.  The collection is getting
too large for my small apartment, so I want to just save the lables.

How does one remove these hermitically sealed lables?  :)
I've tried boiling water, water with bleach, and a few other variants of
the first two.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Jeff Poretsky
Grey Dawn Brewing


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:32:23 -0400
From: danmcc at umich.edu (Daniel S McConnell)
Subject: re: Yeast Pitching rates

Don Van Valkenburg writes:

>>George Fix had a chapter on yeast propagation in his book and several pages
>>on yeast pitching that were frankly over my head ---but to the bottom line.
>>He said 1-2 million cells per milliliter per degree Plato of wort.   And,
>>he went on to say half that much for ales.  Well if you are like me and you
>>are not into counting cells with your microscopes how much is 1-2 million
>>cells?  George Fix finally gets down to the nitty gritty a few pages later
>>and says that for a 12 P wort (that is apx. 1.048 for us using the other
>>scale) we should use 400 ml of yeast solids per Hectoliter (1 hectoliter =
>>26.42 gal.).  He also cites a rule of 1/2 Lt. per hectoliter.  Now we're
>>getting close to something that will help.  We as homebrewers usually do a 5
>>gallon batch ( apx. 1/5 a hectoliter), thus we should use about 80 ml per
>>five gallons of wort at 1.048 SG.   Remember he said half as much for ales.

And George De Piro (Nyack, NY) adds...

>     As a really quick note, the easiest way to guess at your pitching rate
>     is to follow this rule:  never step up the volume that the yeast get
>     pitched into more than 10 fold when making ales, and closer to 5 fold
>     for lagers.  In other words, if you are making 5 gallons (19L) of ale,
>     pitch at least 1/10 that volume yeast starter (0.5 gallon (1.9 L)).
>     Aerate well.  You will experience short lags, fast fermentations that
>     don't stick, and you'll have happy yeast to harvest.

Although not invited, I will hop on this one.....

Consider that the cell count of a normal starter (no agitation, incremental
addition of sugars, O2 input, pH titration, stirring or other heroic
measures) is about 50^6 cells/mL.  This is strain dependent among a host of
other caveats, so please don't chain me to that number.  GDP's
recommendation for a 1/10 dilution (1.9L in 19L) will provide approx. 5^6
cells/mL.  In a 10P beer this is approx. 0.5^6 cells/mL/P which is the
absolute lower limit of GF's recommendations for ales.  George^2 are in
agreement on this issue.  GF's references to "yeast solids" describe a
solution which is very different from a much lower cell density starter
culture.

That's right.  You should pitch the equivalent of 0.5 gallon starters (for
ales) as a lower limit to see proper yeast performance, attenuation, lag
etc.  In a 19L batch this lower limit is 1900 ml * 50^6 cells/mL = 95^9
cells.  95 Billion cells.

In reality, the best way to achieve this is to repitch "yeast solids" just
like the professional brewers do.  There is simply no better way to get the
cell counts that high, no other practical way to pitch a strong beer.  Over
the years there have been many posts about using and harvesting top
cropping yeasts in reference to many similar questions.

Repitching is an easy and economical way to get the best performance out of
your yeast. With better beer as a byproduct, why would anyone not practice
this procedure?

DanMcC
Ann Arbor, MI





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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:44:54 -0700
From: Jim Cave <cave at psc.org>
Subject: Channelling, Cutting, Stuck Sparge...

	Al K comments on the ongoing debate on cutting the grain bed.  He 
indicates he's never had a problem, however, I have with Wheat beers and on 
one occasion when sparging 38 lbs of double decoction, doppelbock.

	I agree with Al about cutting the grain bed.  I found with stuck sparges 
it doesn't help and may be of questionable value when the sparge isn't 
stuck.  Now, I use a modified sparge, where after the 1st runnings, I stir 
up the top 3/4's of the grain bed, while adding sparge water.  I do this 
twice early in the sparge.  Yields have improved by about 2-3 points (from 
29/lb/gal to 32) and clarity of the wort remains good.  One other important 
point: while you can let off the first runnings rather quickly for 
conventional beers, doing this for double decotion and other highly viscous 
runnings (wheat beers) will lead to a stuck sparge because it jams the 
grain bed down too much.  You'll note that Darryl Richman and Eric Warner 
emphasize this in their respective books.  Once a grain bed is stuck, you 
should stir the WHLOLE thing back up, and slowly reset and clarify, rather 
than attempt to fight through the sparge from hell.

		Jim Cave (been there, done that!)


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:58:22 -0700
From: Al Czajkowski <aczajkow at ford.com>
Subject: Sounds like an opening to me!

In Homebrew Digest #2713 (May 14, 1998), Eric Fouch said:Richard Hampo
wrote:

> 
> Tim-
> Don't get discouraged by the HBD muckity-mucks. <snip> - which reminds
> me- the botulism thread is about due.
Followed immediately by:
 "Philip J Wilcox" 
> So, between the two all grainers at Big Brew we collected and combined 5
> gals of 2nd runnings in a water jug with the intent to boil later. We
> didn't. I stuffed a couple of cheesecloths in the neck and took it home to
> reboil Sunday and can for starters. I didn't. Monday, I didn't. Tuesday, I
> didn't. Wednesday night it had a head on it. No surprise there. So now I
> I have this unbioled wort of unknown gravity spontaneously fermenting
> in the garage (Not my Fermentation room, but directly under my 2-tier). So
> after reading my new Michael Jackson book for the last week, I'm thinking
> of dropping in a pound or two of liquid wheat malt extract and calling it 
> a p-lambic. Any thoughts from the great collective? Am I pouring money
> down a batch of Dumperbrau? What is the effect of not boiling at all?


Sounds like the botulism thread could start here!  What a coincidence
;-)


Al Czajkowski
F.O.R.D HOMEBREW CLUB
Brewing at the top of Wayne County MI...


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:58:18 -0700
From: "John S. Thomas" <jthomas at iinet.com>
Subject: Pumps

Bradd Wheeler
Head Brewer
Plymouth Bay Brewing Co.
Plymouth Ma

Brad you asked about pumps.

Look at the Little Giant 2MD HC.  The HC stands for highly corrosive.   It
pumps 8.3 gpm to 14 feet, will tolerate 200 degree F and the head is made
with Ryton.  It is designed so caustic will not touch it.  The March 809
series brass pump is great except for the brass.  I understand caustic will
do a number on brass.  The good news - March pumps will tolerate 250 degree
F.  Both of these pumps are seal-less magnetic. I have used the Little Giant
for 6 or 7 years and turn off the flame (obviously the boiling stops) then
go straight to the pump and never had a problem.  Works great.

Let us know your results.

John S. Thomas





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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:50:49 EDT
From: AlannnnT <AlannnnT at aol.com>
Subject: Eric Fouch and civility

 
Eric Fouch said:

"Some shmuck who couldn't cut it flipping
burgers, so he's now loading lumber probably told you they don't carry them
(ever), so he could go on early break."

Eric, I am pleased that you have such an exalted position in life that the
idea of a person holding a menial job is revolting to you. But spare us. Us
[few?] HBDers who have slung burgers or loaded lumber know the world would be
better of with more of us willing to work at a job regardless of stature then
with more of the pompous a-holes that cast prejudicial comments at working
people.

Besides, if we [they] wouldn't take those jobs you would call us 'lazy, good
for nothing welfare cheats', wouldn't you.

Off my podium now.
Alan Talman, former burger flipper, janitor, security guard, truck driver,
meat wrapper etc. etc. ad nasuem. 


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:22:40 -0600
From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
Subject: calling it quits

Well, after 2.5 years of living in poverty and working 60 hours a week to
keep my home brew supply shop liquid I have decided to shut it down and
return to the workforce.  I've been having a clearance sale for about 2
weeks now and my inventory is about gone.  I've marked everything down 40%,
which reduces the prices to roughly my wholesale cost after shipping
expenses.  Following is a list of the remaining inventory.  Prices are 40%
OFF the following prices.  Shipping can be via ups or usps.  Email
brewshop at coffey.com or call 307-234-1258 to place orders.  I have just of
few of each of these items:

Encyclopedia of Beer book                       $35.00
Pale Ale style series book                      $10.95
Belgian Ale style series book                   $10.95
The Essentials of Beer Style book               $13.95
Dictionary of Beer and Brewing book             $15.95
Homegrown Hops book                             $9.95
Sake U.S.A. book                                $14.95
Evaluating Beer book                            $19.95
Zymurgy Summer 1998                             $6.50
        Spring 1998                             $6.50
        Winter 1997                             $6.50
        Fall 1997                               $6.50

Red Baron double lever capper                   $12.99
Stainless Steel 21" spoon                       $8.99
24" plastic spoon                               $3.49
500 ml pyrex flask                              $6.50
Brewer's Buddy calculator                       $5.49
Amazing Wheel of Beer                           $7.99
Hop Go Round                                    $7.99
Porcelain 1/2 litre stein with pewter lid       $23.95
Glass 1/2 litre stein with pewter lid           $21.95
Belgian ale glass                               $3.75
8" funnel with strainer and airvalve            $4.89
Double lever italian corker                     $18.49
Bottle brush                                    $3.19
Carboy brush                                    $5.25
Hydrometer test flask                           $3.99
Bottle washer sink adaptor                      $3.79
1" diameter blow off tubing, per foot           $1.49
1/4" draft hose, per foot                       $0.69
50# Briess Victory malt                         $34.00
50# Briess Munich malt                          $34.00
50# Briess wheat malt                           $32.00
Yeast Lab dry yeast                             $1.59
Danstar dry yeast                               $1.19
Lalvin dry yeast                                $1.19
Edme dry yeast                                  $0.95
Doric dry yeast                                 $0.95
Cola and Cream Soda soft drink extracts         $3.79
Save the Ales bumper sticker                    $0.95
I'd rather be home brewing bumper sticker       $0.95
Starr bottle opener                             $4.25
Liquid Isinglass, 4 oz.                         $1.99
Five Star home brew cleaning/sanitizing kit     $19.95
Precision pH papers, 4.6 - 6.2, 100 per tube    $3.49
Hop Extract, 2 oz.                              $1.95
Lactic Acid, 4 oz.                              $3.45
18 oz. Polder kitchen scale                     $12.49
6 gal. bucket with lid                          $7.99
Bottling bucket spigot                          $3.25
3/8" o.d. plastic ball valve                    $2.59
Lots of liqueur extracts                        $2.95
1# gypsum                                    $3.00

I'm also selling 5 sections of brown retail shelving for $75 per section
and a Cardinal Detecto, Approved for Trade, digital scale for $200.

Jeff Sturman
casper, wy




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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:26:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Randy A. Shreve" <rashreve at interpath.com>
Subject: Pin Lock Keg Woes

Several months ago I neglected the wisdom of caveat emptor (let the buyer
beware) when I purchased a kegging system.  Included with the system were
two used pin lock kegs, both in excellent physical condition.  
Problem:  one of the kegs had bad poppets.  
Bigger Problem:  they were Coca Cola kegs.
I have been unsuccessful in locating replacement poppets for these kegs.  
One source told me that these were proprietary parts, and that there was a
legal problem here.

Can anybody in HBD-land shed any light on this subject???  Should I dump
these kegs and start over?

Thanks!    



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