---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Theory and experiment of RIMS and induction heating. ("S. Wesley")
  any recipe suggestions for spent grain? (Stephanie Deter)
  Home Malting ("J.Kish")
  Making starters: the Wrath of Algebra (Some Guy)
  Re: moans, groans and complaints ("Timothy Green")
  Rhubarb in beer (NEWTRADBC)
  Hop Rhizomes. (Brad McMahon)
  starting aeration (Andy Walsh)
  Pitching Rates etc (Tony Barnsley)
  Classic Beer Series (Gary Bridges)
  AHA National Homebrew Competition (Bill Giffin)
  Yeast pitcing - style specific ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  Re: Scott Braker-Abene's Flame (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  Hop Help (Jonathan Ingram)
  new style series book. ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Williams Brewing (Ralph Link)
  Repitching 3068/Viability of Harvested Yeast ("Robert D. Dittmar")
  RE: Secondary Impedance/SSR's/Yeast Paste (LaBorde, Ronald)
  whoops! (Benjamin Bradburn)
  Hop Rhizomes (Chuck Hudson MGCMD-L List Janitor 272-1522)
  ZERO OUT OF POCKET (respond)
  Grains and malts (Alex MacGillivray RN)
  Aeration: How to keep it sanitary? ("Hans E. Hansen")
  Pin Lock Kegs ("Marc Battreall")


BURP's Spirit of Free Beer competition is June 6-7 and entry information
is available by contacting Jay Adams (adams at burp.org).


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:21:26 -0700
From: "S. Wesley" <Wesley at maine.maine.edu>
Subject: Theory and experiment of RIMS and induction heating.

Hi Folks,
	I was rooting through one of the closets in my lab the 
other day while I was getting ready to do some demonstrations in one of 
my classes when I came across a demonstration induction coil.  These this 
is basically a coil of about 16 guage wire mounted in a stand with an 
iron core.  It is about 8 inches long and has an inside diameter of 1.5 
inches. It is wrapped about four or five layers deep and usually it runs 
off 120 VAC. It can be used for lots of fun demos such as lighting a 
light bulb attached to a coil sealed in wax under water floating a metal 
ring in the air and spot welding.  I though, aha, the very thing to test 
out the whole inductive heating RIMS thing!
	I removed the core and attached it to an aircraft hangar sized 
oops! I mean a normal sized Variac with an AC ammeter in series.  Into 
the core I inserted a 10" long 1.25 od copper pipe filled with water. 
Originally I thought about hooking this up to a dual trace scope with a 
series resistor so I could measure the phase angle between the current 
and the voltage and then calcuate the power factor. But a quick 
calculation revealed that this would have been a waste of time.  
	I turned on the Variac, turned up the voltage until the current 
was 15A and waited. after two minuits the coil was starting to smoke so I 
shut off the Variac, stirred the water with the thermometer and read the 
temperature initially and after a min or so. The coil was too hot to 
touch and the temperature of the water was only a few degrees warmer. It 
appears that the vast majority of the power was deposited in the coil and 
not in the pipe or the water.  I then allowed the coil to cool down and 
repeated the experiment with a 1.0" glass graduated cylinder filled with 
water and not surprisingly the rise in temperature was very small.
	Before I performed this test I did a quick back of the envelope 
calculation to determine the ratio of power deposited in the pipe to 
power deposited in a coil.  I did the calculation for a different 
geometry but the results conviced me that I would get exactly the results 
I described above.  
	The geomtry I used was a 1.0" diameter pipe wrapped in heavy 
copper wire capable of carrying up to 30A. The magnetic field inside the 
coil can be approximated by the field inside a long straight solenoid.  
(Granted this is an overestimate, but keep in mind this is only a back of 
the envelope calculation) Faraday's Law can then be used to calculate the 
electric field induced in the pipe and Ohm's Law to get the current 
density. (I assumed the same resistivity for copper pipe and copper 
wire.) You can then easily calculate the current that will flow in the 
secion of pipe under one coil and the resistance of the section of pipe. 
the power dissapated in one loop of the coil and the pipe underneath it 
can easily be calculated now and the result came out to be a ratio of 
greater than 10 to 1.  In other words very little power actually makes it 
into the pipe.
	All is not lost though, because the heat which shows up in the 
induction coil will still heat the pipe, although this is a rather odd 
way of achieving that goal.
	The comments of others about the safety of this type of setup 
should not be ignored. Allow me to relate an off topic anecdote about 
using heating tapes.  It is a common practice when working with ultra 
high vaccum (UHV) systems to "bake" the (stainless) chambers of your 
system to get rid undisirable materials such as water etc. more quickly 
after closing up the system.  This is often done using wrappable heating 
tapes. (Sometimes plugged into HUGE Variacs).  One of the graduate 
students working on a project I was involved with wrapped an old heating 
tape with bad insulation around a stainless bellows.  Some time after 
start they were well into the bakeout the insulation on the tape failed 
and shorted to the bellows and burned a hole in the stainless steel 
bellows.  
	I'll be checking my mail for that award from the power company.
				Regards
				Simon


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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:28:45 -0600
From: Stephanie Deter <stevi at frii.com>
Subject: any recipe suggestions for spent grain?

Having just started the boil on my first partial mash brew (oatmeal stout
based on the oasis stout recipe in Homebrewer's Gold), I'm faced with
almost two gallons volume of spent grains. I've done some searched on the
HBD and the web and general, and have yet to find a recipe for using these
spent grains for anything besides dog bones. Lacking a dog, I'd really
rather try my hand at a bread of some sort. I was hoping somebody would
have a recipe suggestion. It just seems so wasteful to send them all down
the disposal.

All suggestions appreciated!

Thanks,
Stevi Deter
Boulder, CO
stevi at frii.com



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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:24:48 -0700
From: "J.Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Home Malting

HBD'ers,
    There seems to be growing interest in Home Malting.
Only trouble is, there should be a easier source of 
malting barley.
  Some people have tried feed barley, but the quality of
that leaves much to be desired.
 Does anybody know where to obtain malting barley?
   Joe Kish



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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:35:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Making starters: the Wrath of Algebra

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Jay Spies asks about starters...

It's a matter of units. Convert the pounds and gallons to the units you 
need, then cook up the starter to your specifications...

The units of extraction (contribution, in the case of extracts) are 
commonly called pgp. Mathematically, this is points x gallons / pounds.

Using 1 gallon = 3785.4 ml and 1 lb = 453.59 grams, and assuming DME 
yields 45 pgp...  converting: (45pts*gal/lb)*(3785.4ml/gal)/(lb*453.59g/lb). 
Cancelling units, we have 45pts*3785.4ml/453.59g=375.5pm/g

Let's say you want 800ml of 1.030 starter from DME. How many grams of DME 
do you need? 30pts*800ml=453.59pts*ml/g. Solving for the mass, collecting 
units and rounding up yields 53 grams of DME.

You say you don't have a metric scale? Instead of using grams in the 
conversion, use the fact that there are 16 ounces in a pound. Our 
conversion becomes (45pts*gal/lb)*(3785.4ml/gal)/(16oz/lb)=10646pmoz (I 
can actually sense Dave Draper cringing...) Again, we're after 800ml 
of 1.030 starter wort: 30pts*800ml=10646pts*ml/oz. Solving for the weight, 
collecting terms and rounding up yields  2.25 ounces (wt) of DME.

Hope it helps! (Actually, considering the conditions during which I wrote 
this, I hope I didn't screw the math up...)


See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:53:33 -0400
From: "Timothy Green" <TimGreen at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: moans, groans and complaints

I would like to thank all the people who took the time to answer my
concerns. Every single one was polite and offered help when I need it.

That in it's self shows the quality of the of the readers of the HBD! They
were quite convincing

In that vein, I went out and purchased a Rubbermaid/Gott 10 gallon round
cooler to use as a mash/lauder tun, a Palse Bottom to fit and a larger
brewpot!

There are two things I need some help on:

How should I alter the cooler to install a ball valve and spout so I can
drain the wort.

The second question is does anyone have a good recipe for a neophyte
all-grainer to try. Now that I have the equipment, I am itching to try it
out.

Thanks again...

Tim Green

Mead is great... but very slow
Beer is good... but much much faster




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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:51:30 EDT
From: NEWTRADBC <NEWTRADBC at aol.com>
Subject: Rhubarb in beer

David Johnson asked if anyone had used Rhubarb in beer.

Yes.  Chas Peterson and I entered a five gallon batch into the 1997 "last
years winners" competition that the AHA does to ensure lots of homebrew at the
homebrewers conference each year.  We used rhubarb as the 2 pounds
"miscellaneous" ingredient each contestant is allowed (AHA provides
remainder).  In order to maximize flavor, we cooked 4 pounds rhubarb (just a
little water, it generates its own juice) until soft, and then processed
through a juicer to yield 2 pounds of EXTREMELY sour rhubarb juice.  This was
added to the secondary.

It did make the beer slightly tart, but it wouldn't fool anyone as a lambic.
We did not get feedback from the AHA as to how it fared in the competition
under the moniker "SA's Rhubarb Pseudo-Lambic"  I still have a couple bottles.
Interesting beer-but not something you want every day or to give to people who
want to try homebrew for the first time!


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:43:53 +1100
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Hop Rhizomes.

Colin wrote:

> Here in Australia, we are unable to obtain hop flowers other than
> locally grown Pride of Ringwood and New Zealand Saaz, Hallertau 
> Triploid and Cluster. 

You can also get that new strain , Essas (sp?) grown in Tassie,
which similar to Hallertauer so I'm told.


I would like to grow my own, as we have a 
> great climate for hop production ( cold winters, hot summers). 

Well... sort of, most of Australia is a little cose to the
equator, you can grow from Adelaide (38S) on down, so
Canberra is good, Tasmania is better.


> Does anybody know where I can obtain rhizomes from such hops
> as Saaz, Hallertau, Fuggles, Goldings, Cascade and Hersbrucker?

Ya just can't.
Essas, Ringwood, Cluster and Tettnager, I know you can get.
Many of these may not grow too well anyway, and
most probably change characteristics.


> Are there any customs/quarantine problems?

Hoo boy, oh yeah!
You cannot import any living plant/fruit/vegetable into Australia.
Customs will destroy it on sight, and may charge you
with a whole swag of customs offences.
If you have come back from overseas you should remember the
customs declaration forms... "no, I have not been on a farm
in the last two weeks..." and being sprayed with
insecticide on the plane!

I would just check with Customs before you decide to order
anything like that from overseas.....


- --
Brad McMahon        Adelaide, South Australia         
brad at sa.apana.org.au   
PGP



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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:31:29 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at ventrassist.com>
Subject: starting aeration

>From George.

>He is wondering why this happened, because 
>current theory says that you need not aerate if you overpitch.

Maybe this is Tracy's current theory - certainly not mine, and I doubt
you'd find many brewing scientists who agreed with this. This has been
bugging me since I first read Tracy's BT article, so feel compelled to
finally add a counter opinion, when it is claimed to be "current
theory".

from John
>However, Tracy Aquilla wrote, I think, in his BT
>article that yeast growth in the wort was not desirable due to by products.

One of the most important "by products" (to us beer pigs, not to the
yeast) of yeast growth is ethanol (ethanol = "bug piss" in local slang).
Don't want that stuff in our beer do we? Yeast produces alcohol about
30x faster when in log phase than stationary phase. If you discourage
growth by under aeration you encourage slow ethanol production and
sluggish fermentation (even if it does start within 30 minutes).

The one time I tried the non-aeration trick (with Danish II lager yeast)
resulted in just 60% AA (cf. my normal 80% with this yeast). The wort
was pitched directly onto yeastcake from a beer racked the same day
(fermented 2 weeks at 10C). Yeast viability was not measured but
unlikely to be the culprit. I should point out my worts lack significant
cold break due to a filtration sort of technique, so the yeast must use
O2 to synthesise sterols and unsaturated fatty acids rather than derive
them from break material. 

The theory that yeast multiplies just 3-4 times really only applies if
one pitches a particular ("recommended") amount of yeast (who regularly
measures this accurately?). A given wort O2 level tends to result in
reasonably similar amount of yeast growth no matter what the pitching
rate ie. constant number of cells produced, rather than a constant ratio
of number at end to number at start. (in the extreme: beer fermented
from yeast pitched directly from a smack pack clearly results in much
more than 3-4 times more yeast than what was originally pitched). A
study on this was in one of the semi-recent journals, but I do not have
it at hand.

Maybe you can get away with overpitching and underaeration sometimes
(depending on such things as temperature, break level in wort, yeast
vitality and strain), but I really don't think it is worth playing
around with, unless you like drinking sweet beer, or know exactly what
you are doing.

Andy in Sydney.

PS. Since I'm posting anyway, a Charlie Bamforth mini-review! After
finishing the new book, I'd recommend it! The man's head is pointier
than just about anyone else's who has written a popular beer book, but
he generally keeps it to himself! It is easy to read, and IMHO is up to
date in its information and accuracy! Many HBDers will be surprised at
some of the claims he makes, so be prepared to question your opinions,
since his sources are impeccable! Two things irritate me!
 - the recommendation by CP on the back cover (shows the market he is
aiming for I suppose)!
 - every sentence seems to finish with a "!"



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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:36:56 +0100
From: Tony Barnsley <Tony.Barnsley at riva-group.com>
Subject: Pitching Rates etc

Hi all,

Just my tuppence worth,

This month I have brewed two batches using Wyeast 2278 Czech Pilsner.
The first was a Gambrinus clone using a 500 ml starter with yeast
reclaimed from a bottle of lager made last year. The starter was well
aerated and stepped up a couple of times. The beer was chilled and
whirlpooled before siphoning into the fermentation bin, using a piece of
copper tubing with 1/16 th holes drilled in it. Additional aeration
using a slotted paddle produced 6" of foam on the surface. OG was 1.058.
Yeast was pitched, and fermentation started within 6 hours. 

Temp control is not my strong point nor an actual concern of mine, but
stayed around 65F for the 5 days of primary fermentation.

I then racked a wheat beer wort (OG 1.044) onto the yeast cake. No
comments about using  a wheat yeast etc. My beer and that's the way I
like it, anyway its something of an experiment. Aeration produced the
requisite 6+" of foam, fermentation started within 4 hours, good solid
krausen. 24 hours later NO krausen checking with the hydrometer proved
that primary fermentation had finished. So the beer was racked into a
secondary and will be allowed to rest.

I've not had such a fast fermentation before even with pitching onto the
yeast cake, so I've concluded that I've been under aerating, either that
or temperature played a part. I'm not convinced about temperature as the
previous batch under the same conditions didn't ferment that fast, it
was probably underpitched.

Wassail !

Tony, M.i.B (Mashing in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK)

(A very very long way from Jeff)


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:31:58 -0500
From: Gary Bridges <bridges at iastate.edu>
Subject: Classic Beer Series



I happened on most of the Classic Beer Series of books at Waldenbooks on
their bargain table for a greatly reduced price.  That was in Ames, IA.

gary bridges
bridges at iastate.edu


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:49:03 -0400
From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net>
Subject: AHA National Homebrew Competition


Top of the morning to yea all,

I agree and applaud Dave Houseman's post in defense of the BJCP.  But there
are problems with the judging of the AHA NHC.  The judges are required to
judge the beer entered by the guidelines for the competition yet the
majority of the winning beers do not fall within the guidelines.  

There are too many entries to judge at each of the first round locations
and not enough judges or time to properly judge them.

Frequently the entries are presented to the judges far too cold, which
makes it difficult to adequately judge.  Judging as many as thirty beers in
a day has a tendency to destroy  your palate no matter how good a judge you
are.  

Errors are made in the receiving of the entries as they are being logged in
and the correct beer is not always presented to the judges.  This happens
in the best run competitions, yet do to the large number of entries I feel
that the AHA NHC has a higher percentage then do most of the large regional
competitions.

Over the years I have entered about 30 beers into the AHA NHC.  For three
of those entries I didn't receive a score sheet.  Two were very badly
judged as undrinkable when in fact they were quite pleasant.  One score
sheet didn't appear to be my entry at all as the judges said the beer was
cloudy and the beer I had entered had been filtered.  That beer didn't
throw even the slightest chill haze either before or after the competition
and won a first place in a regional competition after the NHC.

It seems that the AHA has not the skill to properly manage the NHC.  The
competition has grown larger then their capability.

Bill  




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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:22:16 -0700
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <donvanv at email.msn.com>
Subject: Yeast pitcing - style specific

Although this is only one example, I think it backs up the assumption that
pitching rates might be style specific and one size may not fit all styles .

HBD 2720 >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998
>From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com>
David writes:
>On another note, with this talk of pitching rates, I thought I would offer
>a data point. Last summer I prepared two batches of weizen in series with
>Wyeast 3068. The first was made with a regular size starter the secon was
>pitched with a quart of yeast harvested from the first. They were entered
>in the same competition and were judged by the same judges who commented on
>the excellent clove character of the first and docked the second for not
>enough. Both were fermented the same with the same aeration and
>temperatures.
>Dave the Barbarian.
Thanks Dave for your input,
Don Van Valkenburg





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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:32:40 -0500
From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Scott Braker-Abene's Flame

Houseman, David Wrote:

>In yesterday's HBD Scott Braker-Abene flamed on about the AHA and its
>competitions, apparently without the vaguest idea of what he was talking
>about.  To make statements like "Well this is because it is easier to
>screw up your beer with someone else's
>and get it into another category in the first round" indicates that he
>is totally unaware of the procedures and processes used in the AHA first
>round, or for that matter in any round, of the National Homebrew
>Competition.

No I know exactly what I was talking about and I believe that the comp is
was and will be poorly run due to being unorganized and ill planned.

I also know many other brewers who beers ended up in the wrong cat. due to
poor stewarding.

>His flaming didn't really apply to the AHA to the good judges and
>organizers who organize and judge the first round competitions around
>the country.  Perhaps Scott was burned by not having his great beer
>managed or judged properly, but then these things do happen.  

Hmmm but why are they always happening in the AHA nationals rather than
local comps? Stop making excuses. Stop Stop Stop!

>Hummmm...perhaps he can't read the directions...even
>if he does claim to have Xerox copies of his entry forms?

Give me a break... Perhaps the AHA and the ailing BJCP should come up with
better stewards and people that don't wait till the last minute to organize
all the brews into the flights. Perhaps I have touched a nerve that is sore.

>If he has an issue, as he obviously does, with the judges that happened to
>have judged his beers, he should be taking that up with the BJCP who
>certifies the judges.  

First of alll I would have to have an actual BJCP judge actually judge my
brew in the AHA nationals. 99% of the time I get 2 novices judging the beer. 

Perhaps the BJCP should then do a better job of getting judges to actually
show up for the comps.

>If a workable solution can be found then great, but the place to vent about
>the judges isn't the AHA who has nothing to do with the training,
>certification or selection of the judges in the NHC. 

Like I said. I have rarely had an actual BJCP judge on any of my AHA
nationals score sheets.


Okay Dave, 

Let's get something straight. I am not flaming the AHA. I could give a turd
about the AHA. I do feel that their competitions are run about as well as
their organization and that is nothing to be proud of. 

Also, YOU... discuss wasting bandwidth and all.. Your response to me
probably should have been kept to private email. 

 -Scott "whatever" Abene
##############################################################
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                      #
#                Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>               #
# http://www.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)#
#                                                            #
# "The More I know About Beer, The More I Don't Need The AHA"#
##############################################################



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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:56:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Ingram <jonathaningram at yahoo.com>
Subject: Hop Help


I was doing a 5 gallon batch yesterday and something strange happened.
I was following a recipe for a Brown Ale. I did all the normal
procedure. The recipe called for 1.5 oz North. Brewer for the boil and
1/4 oz Willamette for the finish. I got the boil going added
everything, than in the last 10 mins of my boil I opened up the hop
bag that already contained the boiling hops and threw the willamette
hops in (note I was using pellets), stirred everything around a little
and let it go for 10 more minutes. After 10 mins I pulled out the hop
bag to find that there wasn't hardly anything left in it. The hops had
turned into a thick green powder and gone right through the mesh bag.
What happened? So I obviously didn't want all this mess in my wort,
problem is the hops didn't stay together as leaves so I couldn't
really fish them out. So I ran it through a strainer on the way to the
fermenter. I took a sample in my Hydrometer tube and let it settle,
sure enough there was a green powder that settled on the bottom. I was
now afraid that if I left this stuff on the bottom it would in effect
be like dry hopping my beer. So I siphoned it to a secondary leaving
all this crap on the bottom of my primary than pitched my yeast at
about 11 last night. Any insight into what happened would be
appreciated. Thanks, Jon



==
Jonathan Ingram
We Are Penn State!
JonathanIngram at yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:23:04 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: new style series book.

The AHA is giving members a good deal on books now.  Members get
20% off the cover price AND free shipping.  I appreciate the offer, and
I ordered the two new Style Series books, Alt and Barley Wine

I'm dissapointed, however, in the new design of the books.  The old
books had a bold, dark cover photo with a professional design.
Then new books have a white barley-on-yellow-background look 
that just looks washed out and bland.  And the shape of the book--
shorter and wider than the old books--makes the books look
amateur, like a college thesis.

I guess I shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but it seems to me
you want a series of books to look alike, not with different
formats.  I'm sure it was a marketing decision...

       - Bryan
         gros at bigfoot.com
         Oakland, CA


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:40:51 -0500
From: Ralph Link <rlink at minet.gov.mb.ca>
Subject: Williams Brewing 

In the May 22 issue of HBD I learnt of "Williams Brewing"
http://www.williamsbrewing.com 
I was egear to obtain some kegs parts and a variety of other things. So I
used the 800 number from their home page and made the call. 

I was informed that they do not ship to Canada. I find this rather sup
rising. They maintain a web page that is available world wide, they have an
800 number that is aces sable from Canada, but they don't ship to Canada.

I would suggest that either business is so good that they don't want new
customers or they are just too lazy to go to what ever extra work there may
be to send a parcel to Canada. I have in the past ordered many things from
the U.S.A. and have always be treated as a welcome customer. I hope this
company's attitude is not reflective of other companies in the same
business.
Ralph Link
"Some people dream of success------while others wake up and work at it.


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:48:40 -0500
From: "Robert D. Dittmar" <Robert.D.Dittmar at stls.frb.org>
Subject: Repitching 3068/Viability of Harvested Yeast

     David Johnson writes in HBD #2720:
     
          Last summer I prepared two batches of weizen in series with
          Wyeast 3068. The first was made with a regular size starter the 
          secon was pitched with a quart of yeast harvested from the first. 
          They were entered in the same competition and were judged by the 
          same judges who commented on the excellent clove character of the 
          first and docked the second for not enough. Both were fermented 
          the same with the same aeration and temperatures. 
          
     One of the members of our brew club made a Weizen beer from Wyeast 
     3068, and he claimed that 3068 was actually two different strains.  He 
     claimed that he had actually streaked out the two different strains 
     from the smack-pack, cultured two starters from the different strains, 
     and pitched the two strains at different times in the fermentation.  I 
     believe that he claimed that the clove producing strain was a slow 
     starter.  If he was correct about 3068 being two strains, it might 
     explain the difference noted in David Johnson's two beers.  At the end 
     of the primary, perhaps one strain greatly outnumbered the other or 
     expired before the repitching.
     
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     George DePiro and John Wilkinson discussed repitching yeast at some 
     length, although their discussion was in the context of the necessity 
     of oxygenating the wort.
     
     In one of his posts in HBD #2720, George wrote about harvested yeast:
     
          You may find significant cell death after just a week of storage  
          under fermented beer in a fridge.
     
     Upon reading this I thought I'd mention some of my recent experience 
     with harvested yeast.  I had harvested some Wyeast 1056 from a 
     secondary fermenter just before I moved into my new home at the end of 
     March.  It has been sitting in my refrigerator until this past 
     Tuesday, when I finally got around to brewing a planned porter.  I had 
     washed the yeast a couple of times in the interim.  Before brewing I 
     had pitched the yeast into a small starter just to be sure that 
     fermentation would begin, and when I saw the starter fermenting the 
     next day, I pitched it into a 5 gallon batch (aerating the best that I 
     could).
     
     Fermentation was well underway early the next morning, and when I came 
     home from work the that day I found that fermentation had been so 
     explosive that krausen had overflowed the airlock, something that 1056 
     has never done to me before.  I realize that this is just one data 
     point and my experience may be unique to 1056, but it seems that 
     harvested yeast can stay healthy enough to produce vigorous 
     fermentations even after 3 months under beer or water in the 
     refrigerator.
     
     Rob Dittmar
     St. Louis, MO


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:07:46 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Secondary Impedance/SSR's/Yeast Paste

First, I appreciate all the patience of the HBD members for tolerating
this seemingly endless discussion on subjects that may be considered a
distance from brewing.  No complaints have been registered yet, and I
promise this subject matter too will end someday.

>From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>

>A 1 meter long piece of half inch (ID) copper tube with 1 mm wall
thickness would
>have a resistance of about 0.0002 ohms. If  this is used as a single
>turn and the primary has 100 turns then the primary will see 2 ohms and
>draw 55 amps from a 110 volt line for a probable meltdown if the
breaker
>of fuse didn't do its thing first. Also,  the  copper tube would have
to
>dissipate 6 KW less core losses. With 314 turns on the primary the
input
>impedance would go up to 20 ohms for a modest current draw of 5.5 amps
>and approximately 600 W delivered to the secondary. Much better of
>course. How many turns on the primary of the transformer to be used?
>This can, of course, be easily and accurately determined.

You are indeed correct AJ.
With a longer piece of copper tube, the resistance would also be higher,
if 5 meters long then .001 ohms, using the figures you have presented.
Five meters would be a reasonable size if the tube was coiled.

One way to determine the power rating of the transformer would be to
work backwards and know it's output power.  Let's use an example.  Say
you had a transformer from a 12 volt 50 ampere battery charger.  This is
a reasonable, practical device.  So the transformer will put out more
than 12 volts AC, it needs to overcome rectifier losses, and the battery
wants at least more than 14 volts to charge.  So this transformer will
probably output about 16 volts at 50 amps.  We can multiply 16 * 50 and
get 800 watts.  Here is where we get real technical and call it volt
amps instead of watts.  Do not be discouraged here, because we are going
to have a resistive load and they can call it anything they want but it
is 800 pots of wower.

Here is the fun part - we now know the transformer, it's core, and it's
primary, and it's secondary can handle 800 watts.  Are you with me so
far?  The secondary we do not care about, because we will replace it
with a different secondary.  The transformer primary and the core do not
care how you get 800 watts from the secondary, that is - you can draw 16
volts at 50 amps as above, or you can draw 1 volt at 800 amps.  It
really doesn't matter to the primary as long as the turns ratio is
correct.  You can run the transformer without a secondary.  This seems
silly at first, but oh no! Hang on.

We are happy with the primary, it is perfect for the core, the
manufacturer has kindly seen to that. Besides, we don't want to get
tired fingers with all that small wire and gobs of turns.  So we will
leave the primary alone.  This means we can only diddle with the
secondary.  So with no secondary, we want to know how much voltage is
output for 1 turn.  We put one turn as a secondary and measure the
voltage.  Now we know how many turns to use to get the voltage we want.

We keep in mind that we will have slightly less output under load
because of losses in the primary and secondary windings of about 10
percent or so.  We could, to be more accurate load down the original
secondary to 800 watts and then measure with out 1 turn second
secondary.

We can put however many turns we want to get the voltage we want
provided we do not exceed the current times this voltage to be 800 watts
into the load we have.  The wire also needs to fit into the available
space.

The point of all this, is we are designing a transformer using
unwavering basic principles without using many tools, so far, a
voltmeter, our head, and some time.  We can not expect everyone to
obtain an engineering degree in transformer design to cobble together a
transformer, this is a hobby after all.   

>Knowing that every line I type
>here is archived I would never post a statement like that unless I had
>nothing for the lawyers to take. Now don't get me wrong. I have always
>done, and will continue to do "innovative" things and have paid,
>fortunately only in money (and no legal fees or medical fess so far). I
>just don't advertise my stupidities here.

Maybe I am too naive, but I would hope someone would not take design
ideas as permission. What did I say after all?  Let's take a peek at the
first post on the subject:
========================================================================
========>>>

If you want something really different, try this:

Use a stainless steel coil as the heating chamber, with the mash liquid
and pump connection by non conducting plastic tubing, then power the
coil with high amperage low voltage AC current.  

You will probably need to rewind a transformer by changing the secondary
winding to a very large single or several turn conductor, then this will
connect to your stainless heating coil.  I once played around with a
transformer like this, with a few turns on the secondary, could make a
coat hanger glow bright red!  You will need to experiment, with a lot of
cut and try, and maybe get an electrician to assist in the design.  You
can start by finding some high power battery charger, or an old welding
transformer as the source for a transformer to rewind.
<<<=====================================================================
======

This brings up a good point, how much liability is anyone responsible
for with a suggestion or idea.  Looking above I see I suggested getting
an electrician, I mentioned cut and try, but I also mentioned play, and
at the start I did use the word 'try'.  So I dunno, if something like
this makes me liable, then maybe I should be making beer, not exchanging
ideas on an open forum. What do you guys think? 

>Basically I think this concept
>is a neat idea for someone who knows what he's doing (and I don't claim
>that  that's me).

You are most humble, and most knowing of what you are doing.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:07:42 -0400
From: Benjamin Bradburn <bbradbur at vt.edu>
Subject: whoops!

I've started a fairly simple English ale. That's fairly simple. The
problem came in when I was about to take the temp to see if it was ready
to pitch the yeast. During the process of sterilizing the thermometer I
broke it. Will I be able to just maintain the specific gravity and be
alright? Or does anyone have any further tips?thanks,
		Beenjamin'


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:55:20 -0600
From: Chuck Hudson MGCMD-L List Janitor 272-1522 <chudson at unm.edu>
Subject: Hop Rhizomes

 "Colin Marshall" <byoah at argay.com.au>
Asked about Hop Rhizomes.


I would Double check with you Ag Ministry before starting to look for them.
If every thing is hunky-dory Check out the various hop suppliers on the net
like Hop Union (No affialtion YMMV etc). Howevre I would be carefull in
ordering hops this year due to the pordery mildew hitting the US Pacific
Northwest. One of our H.B retailers refused to accept orders and the other
was "convinced" by a mob of Homebrewers not to order any untill this clears
up.

Chuck Hudson
Albuquerque NM
chudson at unm.edu







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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:29:31
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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:02:09 -0800
From: Alex MacGillivray RN <judoka at iname.com>
Subject: Grains and malts

I'm wondering if there is a chart out there that helps to convert dry
malt recipes into whole grain recipes. I'm wondering what the ratio of
dry malt to whole grains is. Any thoughts?

Alex



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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:03:43 -0700
From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com>
Subject: Aeration: How to keep it sanitary?

Lots of discussion about aeration here lately.

What puzzles me is how do most of you aerate w/o risking
infection?  (Yes, O2 bottle, but what if I don't want to
spend the $ for this setup?)  Many of the methods suggested
look like an invitation for infection.  Shaking, sloshing,
pouring, stirring, etc.  What about all of that airborne
stuff that you are trying to keep out with airlocks?

(I am too embarassed to tell you how I aerate.)

Hans E. Hansen
hansh at teleport.com


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:27:26 -0400
From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: Pin Lock Kegs

Randy Shreve asked about pin lock kegs in HBD 2718:

Can anybody in HBD-land shed any light on this subject???  Should I dump
these kegs and start over?

Randy,

I had the same dilemma awhile back. I had 4 or 5 ball lock kegs and 2 pin
locks. I exchanged the pin lock models with my local homebrew store owner
for ball locks for uniformity reasons. Prior to doing this though, I had
replaced the poppets, o-rings, and other assorted parts with new ones that I
got from Brewer's Resource. These are the kind of parts that you really need
to look at off the shelf and not from a catalog to make sure they are the
right thing if you know what I mean. But, I took a chance and they (BR) sent
me all the right stuff. Their catalog has pictures of most of the parts you
will need, so check it out. If the kegs are in good condition otherwise, use
them.

(Not affiliated with Brewer's Resource disclaimer applies here...yadda
yadda)

Good Luck,

Marc



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---