---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Kraut/Lactobacillus ("Steve Alexander")
  request for opinions - PU/homemade coolers/other ("Steve Alexander")
  Thickness of Mash effects ("Steve Alexander")
  Valley Mill Gap (Michael Satterwhite)
  Eastern Seaboard Pub Crawl ("Philip J Wilcox")
  medical oxygen (Dave Whitman)
  HBD Babble ("LARSONC%DOM13.DOPO7")
  Re: Be Careful About Windscreen Construction ("Mike & Lynn Key")
  Beer Bullets and Net Nazis ("Grow, Roger H")
  RE: Quit Bitchin' / RIMS...the final froniter (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Aeration of partially fermented Wort (Domenick Venezia)
  More on "respiration" (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  basement brewing (Hans_Geittmann)
  Color Correction ("A. J. deLange")
  Citrus flavoring (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  re: Big Brew Labels ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Re: Cordials ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Homegrown coriander ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Metallurgical question (Nathan Kanous)
  Soft, pliable or, How I fell in love with Silicone (Charley Burns)
  stinky starter ("Jay Spies")
  Maltose easier to ferment that Glucose???? (Mark Weaver)
  "Easy" Technique for OG Measurement? (Stephen Harrington)


Have you entered a MCAB qualifier yet?


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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 05:15:52 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Kraut/Lactobacillus

Jesse Krusemark  asks about Kraut, Sauerkraut that is - Not precisely beer
related but close enough to include IMO (downpage if you disagree).  It is a
home fermentation process and does use some of the same skills and tools as
brewing - and in any case goes well with beer.  Hey - it's summer - and PaulN
thinks some of us are too pedantic - so cut me some slack.

>[...] All of the kraut recipes I
>can find observe no sanitary considerations.  They rely on airborne
>yeasts.  Can anyone help me with a recipe that would kill wild yeasts,
>possibly through blanching?  Any yeast recommendations?

First find the NY state agriculture experimental station bulletin 824 (which is
sometimes available online).  It contains good procedures.  A good technical
book is 'Handbook of Anaerobic Fermentation', Erickson, Fung, 1989 Marcel
Dekker. Sauerkraut is primarily fermented with lactobacillus not yeast - tho'
wild yeast can play an important role in secondary flavors.  The process cannot
practically make use of boiling or pasteurization or blanching (I've tried)
because this ruins the texture of the kraut.  Blanching and then
storing/fermenting in liquid for an extended period of time results in
disgustingly soft mushy kraut.

Tight heads of pale green cabbage work best, I've made good kraut from purple
cabbage, but the results are more mixed - sometimes a phenolic flavor appears.
Reportedly late season cabbage and overwintered cabbage have higher sugar
levels and work best.  Remove the outer leaves and cut out the hard stem then
shred.  I recently purchased an Austrian kraut shredder distributed by Kay-Dee
industries (no relationship) which is remarkably similar to my
great-grandmother's (Pennsylvania Deutch) shredder - The ideal home tool - but
a mandolin shredder or even a good knife and patience will suffice..  The water
used should be, like brewing water, dechlorinated.  I always pre-boil & cool my
'kraut water' to sanitize and remove chlorine.

The idea is to dry-salt the shredded cabbage with pure salt (NaCl) (use
pickling salt, not iodized salt or sea salt or salt with anticaking  agents).
This bursts and pulls fluid from the cabbage cells over a period of perhaps 20
minutes.  Then add enough water to make a 2.25% brine solution (by weight).
Two medium heads of shredded cabbage rubbed with 3.0oz(85gm) of salt, and after
a delay, add one gallon(3.8L) of water give about the right proportion of fluid
and cabbage, and the correct brine strength.  The cabbage should be weighted
down as to remain under the brine.  Additional brine can be added if necessary
to submerge the kraut.  A 5gal 'pail' fermentor and a dinner plate as a weight
work quite well for me.  A lid is needed, and a little CO2 pressure will build,
but hardly enough to budge a fermentation lock.  The 'fermentation' temperature
for this process should be ~23C/73.5F.  The fermentation should ideally take 21
days - tho often a bit longer - sometimes a lot longer (up to 60 days).  The
CO2 generation stops long before the fermentation is finished - bubbling is no
guide. I'd advise against using the same 5gal fermentation pail for brewing and
krauting  to avoid cross infections.

The first stage fermentation include Enterobacteria Cloacae (yup - I know it
sounds bad), Erwinia Herbicola, Leuconstoc Mesentoides - which are
heterofermentive  (produce lactic acid and some ethanol+CO2), later
Lacto.Plantarum, a homofermentor degrades mannitol from the L.Mesentoides to
produce much of the lactic acid that gives good kraut it's 'zing'. Low salt (1%
brine) results in high L.Mesentoides levels and a slow, (but eventually too
acid) fermentation.  Higher salt levels (3%) result in lower acidity.  Higher
temps (~32C/90F) produce higher acidity and a quicker fermentation, but more
off flavors.  Low temps (7.5C/45F) result in slow fermentation, low acidity.
Note that you must measure the salt and water added to get the proper brine
strength.

Of course I sanitize everything that comes in contact with the kraut (iodophor)
but the several different bacteria which are naturally present on the cabbage
*ARE* the taste of kraut.  I have made tolerable kraut by culturing
lactobacteria starter from  lacto pills from a health food store..But not
nearly as good as the real thing.  If I were energetic enough I could culture
and isolate the various bacteria involved - but I don't really see the point.
The native culture from the cabbage seems to do a remarkably good job.  I have
also found some old 1920-1950 references that indicate that the low percentage
of ethanol, diacetyl, esters and other wild infection by-products that are
present in 'natural' sauerkraut' form an important part of the flavor profile
that are missing from kraut made by industrial methods.  IMO there is a
difference and I prefer the homemade, but it isn't vastly different. Some of
the old books include instructions that any surface infection should physically
removed (skimmed) and the process allowed to continue.  I've never experienced
this problem , but suspect that proper submersion of the kraut is critical
here.  Kraut exposed to air seems to be a good target for molds. After
fermentation I prefer to leave the kraut submerged in the saline/lactic acid
fluid in a cool place and remove (carefully avoiding infection) just what I
will use over a few days - storing the portion in the fridge.  Someone else may
have a better method for storage & use.

As for sanitation and health issues and of course botulism(highly unlikely!) -
simmer your kraut before consuming. There is no better protection for a wide
variety of potential ills than simmering the product.  And there are few things
nicer on a cool fall evening than a fine lager, (unrinsed) kraut simmered with
a teaspoon of caraway seeds and a good dash of pepper and sauted pork.

Now my question - since nothing goes better with a hoppy ale on a hot summer
day than Kim Chee (think chunky sauerkraut with tons of garlic and cheyenne)
does anyone have a 'recipe' for this over-the-top Korean fermented vegetable
food ?  I've seen some 'fire-eaters' gasp at a good kim-chee.  Are my taste
buds ruined ?

Steve Alexander




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 02:16:03 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: request for opinions - PU/homemade coolers/other

Dr. Pivo suggests PU at the source is nothing like export PU.  I can appreciate
that Pilsner Urquell exported to the US in bottles was/is frequently
miserable - oxidized and sometimes skunky.,  Over the past few years I've been
able to find PU on tap more frequently which is certainly a much better product
than the bottled variety in the US.  Can anyone here compare the export kegged
product to the 'real thing' from experience.  I'd like to know what I'm missing
without incurring a trip to the Czech republic.
- --
George DePiro suggests a fermentation cooler idea ,
>I built a cold box that I keep at ~37F (2.8C).  My idea is to keep a
>reservoir of cold water in the box, with a copper coil running through
>it.  This coil will be hooked up to another coil outside of the cold
>box.  This second coil will be immersed in water in an insulated
>container of some sort (this will be called the "fermentation
>reservoir").  The fermenters will sit in the water with the second
>coil.  A pump will circulate the liquid between the two coils.

Darren Scourfield adds
>Why not delete the coil in the "fermentation reservoir" and just
>circulate the water in the "fermentation reservoir".
>This would eliminate one heat exchange operation.

Better yet - eliminate the copper altogether and just pump water from the cold
reservoir to the fermentation reservoir.  No exchangers.  Easy to use plastic
hoses.  If you go this way you may find that 55gallon plastic drums - the sort
used to ship fruit juice and flavorings where the entire lid, not just the
bungs are removable. form a very attractive fermentation reservoir.  They're
cheap on the surplus market, if you can find them.  ' can probably be insulated
from the exterior with water heater insulation. These should fit anything from
several cornelius kegs up to a sanke sized fermentor.  I would plan in using
something in the water reservoirs to prevent bacterial and algae growth - maybe
the stuff they put in waterbeds -(copper sulfate ?? not sure).

The ability of this design to work is almost entirely dependent on your ability
to insulate the system.  Insulation is important for another reason - those
cool exposed surfaces will gather quite a bit of condensation on a humid day -
forming a neat environment for bacteria molds etc.  This is another reason I'm
not fond of plywood or particleboard cooler box designs.

In the past I've entertained various ideas for fermentation/lagering designs
and in the end I always find that once any reasonable allowance for
construction effort and the cost of pumps, fans, insulation, material, temp
controller is included a used fridge or freezer with controller looks pretty
attractive - a la Fred Kingston's recent post.  Even new low-end chest freezers
look pretty good. Do any cold box, fridge extension builders care to disagree ?
- --
Tim Haby asks about making a sleeve to surround his Cajun Cooker from a
55gallon metal drum.  Consider using a galvanized metal trash can (inverted).
Cheaper, easier to cut ... I haven't tried it. YMMV.

Steve Alexander





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 06:28:36 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Thickness of Mash effects

This is one of those pedantic posts - so PaulN - please page down.

There have been some recent postings regarding the thickness (water:grist
ratio) of the mash and it's effects on the mash.  A really nice paper, 'The
Influence of Grain Components on Infusion Mash Performance', JIB vol97,
pp93-100, 1991, by Robert Muller discusses this issue.

Extract drops off dramatically below a ratio of 2.0 (1 qt/lb) and the
extraction rate continues to improve for thinner mashes - tho' not by much for
mashes thinner than 3.0.  Gelatinization of a control mash continues to improve
with thinner mashes - but adding a 10% hordein load to the mash created an
optima at ~2.0 again.  Adding 10% beta glucan cause a fluctuation in
gelatinization vs thinness, with an optima at 5.0 (the thinnest mash tested).

A mash with 50% 2-row malt and 50% raw barley also got improved extraction in
thinner mashes, but the curve leveled off above about 3.0 (versus 2.0 for an
all malt mash).  Mashes with 50% wheat starch leveled around 2.0, but mashes
with 50% maize(corn) starch or potato starch continued to show significantly
better extraction at ratios up to 7.0.  In a separate test, maltose was added
to a mash and the gelatinization declined as the maltose concentration
increased.  Also extraction (from the malt) declined as maltose was added -
much moreso in thicker mashes.

The author concludes through several additional tests and analyses, that
enzymatic activity in the mash is water limited, and that this explains the
improved enzyme activity in thinner mashes.

In another paper from the same source & author (just a few pages before), thin
mashes at 70C showed  a decline in fermentability above 3.0 and a slight
increase in the amount of starch present at about the same point.  I think the
logical conclusion, as several have already noted, is that the enzymes conck
out faster in thinner mashes.  This is pretty well known and explainable from
theory.

Rules of thumb that I (not the author) conclude.  If you are using an starch
adjunct other than malted barley or wheat starch - a thinner mash, perhaps much
thinner, may help substantially- although pregelatinization is the better
course.  Ratios below 1qt/lb(2.0) are generally losers.  In fact ratios below
1.5qt/lb(3.0) probably incur losses to extraction and gelatinization. The
thinner the mash the more care is needed to preserve the enzyme activity.
Maltose is apparently inhibitory to extraction and initial (not necessarily
enzymatic) gelatinization.  Beta-glucans seem to reduce gelatinization
regardless of the ratio - but moreso in thicker mashes.

Steve Alexander






Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:53:45 -0500
From: Michael Satterwhite <satterwh at weblore.com>
Subject: Valley Mill Gap

>
>Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:23:17 -0500
>From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr at popmail.mcs.net>
>Subject: Grain mill settings
>
>John, as I recall you asked about a specific grain mill.  I use a Valley
>mill.  I use about .049" for two row pale and .035" for wheat malt.  

I also have a Valley mill. Where did you get the numbers the settings
correspond to? There are seven settings on the mill, but I don't see
anywhere that they tell us what gap these settings correspond to.


- ---Michael
"Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech"
http://www.weblore.com/soapbox
New: Freedom and Responsibility



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:47:46 -0400
From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Eastern Seaboard Pub Crawl





From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 06/29/98 08:47 AM

Hi All,

Normally I'd do this leg work myself, but since I do not have web access
I'm finding it difficult. My summer break is taking me through the
following cities. Any info on brewpubs (afterall we have to eat somewhere),
would be much appreciated.
Baltimore, Washington D.C. Myrtle Beach SC., Charleston SC.
Clearwater/Tampa/St. Pete and Knoxville. I leave on late this week and wont
have access to email at all but will have access to the net when I reach
Flordia. If anyone wants to meet at one of these pubs and talk home brew,
that would be really cool, just be sure to bring a spouse so my wife has
someone to talk to. ;<)

Thankyou in advance, Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery
Sec/treas/Editor/WebGuy for the {deleted}




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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:19:38 -0500
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: medical oxygen 

In HBD#2751, Al K writes:

>Same oxygen.  The only difference between medical grade and industrial
>grade oxygen is that you need to drag around a stack of paperwork on
>the tank that *holds* the oxygen in the case of medical O2.  I've read
>(here in HBD) even that some medical oxygen has anti-fungal agents
>added, but have not seen it confirmed by anyone.  If that is indeed
>true, medical grade would be worse.

I'm not sure what gas you could add to a mixture to discourage fungus (Cl2?
O3? HF?), but I don't think I'd want to breath it.  

If memory serves, the only difference between welding and medical oxygen is
that the medical oxygen is a little less pure.  

LESS PURE?  It turns out that in mammals, the breathing reflex is triggered
not so much by lack of O2, but rather by build-up of CO2.  Medical oxygen
is spiked with a small amount of CO2 to encourage breathing.  You also want
some H2O in there to avoid dehydrating the lungs, but I think that's
normally introduced at point-of-use by bubbling the gas through water.

Either grade of oxygen should be just fine for brewing, but welding grade
is usually a lot cheaper.

- --
Dave Whitman  dwhitman at rohmhaas.com
"Opinions expressed are those of the author, and not Rohm and Haas Company"


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:01:04 -0400
From: "LARSONC%DOM13.DOPO7" <Erik.Larson at MS01.DO.treas.sprint.com>
Subject: HBD Babble

Date:  06/29/1998  09:50 am  (Monday)  
From:  C. Erik Larson
To:  EX.MAIL."post@hbd.org"
Subject:  HBD Babble

I cant see any brewing-related usefullness in posts such as those by
Sam Mize which "welcome new posters" on a daily basis, or other posts
which discuss what the content of HBD posts should be.

These posts serve only to lengthen the time for throughput of all HBD
postings.

Mr Mize, I would appreciate it if you fulfulled your need to "welcome new
posters" by priave e-mail.

ps  -- I'm still wondering what the effect will be on my kegs of
Dopplebock from prolonged storage at 70-80F.

Cheers,
Erik Larson



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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:28:10 -0400
From: "Mike & Lynn Key" <flakeys at ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Be Careful About Windscreen Construction

Tim,

Be careful about making that windscreen for your Cajun Cooker. I made a
windscreen for my cooker that extended down to the ground. The windscreen
did a fine job of keeping out the wind but it did too good a job of keeping
in the heat. The heat was so intense near the ground that it started to melt
the hose from the propane tank to the cooker! Fortunately I caught it in
time. My suggestion is to not extend the windscreen all the way to the
ground.
- ----
Cordially, R. Michael Key

"Extremism in the pursuit of prudence is no vice"--Greasy Fingers, Chicago
Gangsters

"I stink, therefore I offend"--Da Card, Greasy Fingers' little brother

>Tim writes:
>"I am thinking of making a sleeve to go around my cajun cooker. The Idea
>that I have is to cut a 55 gal drum perpendicular to its axis at a length
>that would just be taller than the top of the burner. The reasons for
>this
>are to block the wind (I brew outside) and to focus the heat on the
>bottom of the converted keg boiler. If anyone has done this before I
>would
>greatly appreciate the do's and dont's."





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:58:26 -0600
From: "Grow, Roger H" <GrowRH at LOUISVILLE.STORTEK.COM>
Subject: Beer Bullets and Net Nazis

Beer Bullets:

In HBD 2752 Marc Battreall asks about Beer Bullets. Here's my take.

Actually B.B.s were explained fairly well by my friend Brian: Each time
you  want to do something beer related, your wife (sig other) hands you
a gun filled with an indeterminate amount of Beer Bullets. You point the
gun at the "yes you may" target, squeeze the trigger and pray you don't
hear the dreaded, dry "click". Should this click occur, you will be
denied permission to invite 18 of your closest friends over for an
informal "Wee Heavy" tasting or that trip to Coors to watch the barley
germinate. More B.B.s can be earned by mowing the lawn, vacuuming, shoe
shopping or any of the other things you should have been doing when you
were otherwise occupied with beer. You never know how many beer bullets
you actually have, or when the bullet you earned last Tuesday will
expire. Only the truly wise brew master can accurately predict the
outcome of each squeeze. Unless, of course, you're an AHA administrator,
and you just shrug and say "Sorry honey, it's my job, I HAVE to go." But
that's another story.


Net Nazis:

Well, it has happened. Some do-gooder out there has created this
corporate baby sitting software for the net. Like virus software,
companies can get weekly updates to the list of "non work related" sites
that the proxy server will not go to. That's right, Beer is now a dirty
word up there with kiddy-porn and fertilizer bomb sites. Never mind the
schmuck who sits at work all day building his stock portfolio on company
time, financial pages might be related to work, so they're ok. But
heaven forbid someone should search for an altbeir recipe on his
lunchbreak (really, on my lunchbreak, I promise). Be afraid,
cyber-censorship is headed for a proxy server near you.

Unless Otherwise Specified:
	Roger


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:24:02 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Quit Bitchin' / RIMS...the final froniter

From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)

>Could it be as simple as running the wort thru the pump and then thru 
>a coil of copper tubing which is submerged in hot water that's heated
with
>propane?  Could it be this simple??  Seems alot easier than 
>building a 1/2 barrel steam cooker.  If I used, say a 50' ft. roll of
1/2" copper
>and placed it in a 1/2 barrel keg filled with water that's heated
underneath,
>would it raise the mash temps. in an acceptable time?  

Sure could.  I am using 25 foot of 1/2 ID copper tubing in my HLT
connected with Tygon tubing to a pump and circulate through the mash.
My coil is not mounted, just thrown in loosely.  I have noticed that the
temperature stepping goes much faster if I rock the coil while stepping,
much like the immersion chiller chills faster when rocking.

This coil in heated liquid works very well, and just about guaranties no
scorching problems with the wort.  When I first start to step up the
mash temp, I start with the heating water temperature about 5 - 10
degrees higher than my target temperature.  This gives me a running
start, and helps shorten the stepping time.

Another effect, is that I can also lower the mash temp, say if I am
doing a decoction, and my target mash temp is a bit high, I can place
the coil into a cool water bucket and lower the mash temperature at
will.

If you haven't guessed by now, I think this method is great!

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Aeration of partially fermented Wort


> ... I want to just drop my stone into the partially fermented wort and
> blast the heck out of it to re-aerate the brew. By the time you read 
> this I will have already done just that ...

Steve!  Don't do it!  Oh, no, too late.

> ... once the yeast was roused and surrounded by a sufficient amount of
> O2, that the little worker yeast's will probably scrub out most of the
> problems ...
> ... At least it has approx. 4% alch. already ...

I once did just this to a stuck ESB.  Yuck.  Well diluted with a stiff
hop tea, I made it through a couple of gallons before the remaining brew
was so stale that the last 3 gallons went down the drain.

Actually, your 26 pt drop yields about 3.3% ABV rather than 4%, and if you
did aerate then the less alcohol the better, because the less fermentation
products there are the less there are to oxidize into unwanted compounds. 
My guess is that to jump start the yeasties you will need to heavily
aerate and so will promote some unwanted oxidation.  Let us know about the
final taste profile. 

IMHO the proper course of action would have been to stash the fermenter in
the refrigerator (may not be possible for you), and then quickly build a
big, bad, aerated starter.  To speed the new starter along I'd probably
start with a gallon or more of 1.050 wort from dry malt extract and yeast
nutrient, pitch a few packs of yeast, then aerate continuously or many
times a day.  After 3-4 days, I'd refridgerate the starter and let all the
yeast settle, then decant all the (now very nasty) starter solution, and
pitch the rest into the original brew which would then be removed from the
refridgerator to warm and restart. 

I hope you get away with it.  If the off-flavors are not too bad you may
be able to dilute the Tripel to a Dubel or a Singel, and make it
palatable. 

Domenick Venezia   demonick at zgi dot com



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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:36:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: More on "respiration"

NERD ALERT!  Technical details follow....


previously posted:
     ---------------------------------
     Nathan questions the HBD definition of respiration, citing two 
     definitions that he found:
     
     "New Gould Medical Dictionary" -"The interchange of gases of the
     living and the gases of the medium in which they live, through any 
     channel, as in cutaneous respiration"
     
     from "Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary"- "2. biol. a. the 
     sum total of the physical and chemical processes in an organism by 
     which oxygen and carbohydrates are assimilated into the system and the 
     oxidation products, carbon dioxide and water are given off."
     
     He claims that by these definitions, yeast do indeed respire in wort.
     
     I guess they do according to the wording of the first definition, but 
     the second definition does NOT support the notion that yeast respire.  
     Fermentation does not produce CO2 and water.  It produces CO2 and 
     ethanol.  If water was the by-product of fermentation, I doubt beer 
     would have enjoyed such immense popularity throughout the ages!
     
     As a biochemistry major, I was taught that there are two distinct 
     types of respiration, as the above definitions illustrate.  One refers 
     to physical gas exchange.  The other refers to a specific set of 
     chemical reactions that metabolize a carbon source into simpler 
     products, thus releasing energy.  Oxygen is utilized in the pathway.
     
     Yeast don't respire (chemically) in wort.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)


ANAL reply - 

Well...  that's not quite accurate. Fermentation does in fact produce
water in the early steps of anaerobic glycolysis (ultra nerdiness: 2
molecules of H2O are made from each molecule of glucose during the
conversion of 2-phosphoglycerate to phosphoenolpyruvate) 

As far as whether yeast are "respiring" or not under various conditions I
imagine the answer will depend on which of the MANY definitions of
respiration one is using in posing the question. It seems that there are
as many definitions of the word respiration out there as there are biochem
texts!


 -Alan Meeker


P.S. for all of us hop growers... the books are right - hops don't like
lots of water!!! 

 - waiting for the rain to stop in Baltimore.



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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:32:48 -0600
From: Hans_Geittmann at notes.seagate.com
Subject: basement brewing

I rember seeing questions posted about the safety of brewing in basements,
using a gas fired burner.  Unfortunately, I can't remember any of the
answers from people who actually tried it, only those cautionary responses
about CO levels.  SO, anyone out there successfully brewing with propane in
their basement?  Any suggestions about ventilation or other safety issues?
Thanks
Hans
- --
Hans Geittmann
Seagate Technology
Hans_Geittmann at notes.seagate.com
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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:48:59 -0500
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Color Correction

Lest the subject mislead, this post isn't about photography but rather
to correct some goofs in my last two posts.

In two places I said ASBC (i.e.) SRM color is measured in a inch. It's a
half inch! In fact the measurement is usually made in a 1 cm cell and
corrected to a half inch.

The wedge of angles (9 deg) that I mentioned is a wedge of 9 degrees
when viewed from the chromaticity origin (x=0, y=0). It makes much more
sense to look at the wedge which originates from the achromatic point
(x=.31, y=.31). From that point the wedge is 33 degrees wide. Another
way to look at things is to note that the beer predominant wavelengths I
measured span  the 575 - 588 nm range out of the 400 - 700 range of
visible colors or 4% of that range.  Interestingly enough, in that
region of the chromaticity diagram where beer falls, we are (well, you
are) more sensitive to differences in saturation (purity) than hue
(color).

If you are interested in seeing how much color shift we are talking
about, the following table gives the R, G, B values for the tested
beers. You can fiddle with these values on your PC to see how sensitive
you are to the color changes:

Beer                     SRM       R         G        B
1 Pils                  13.8       .833     .676    .151
2 Pils                  14.5       .808     .662    .140
3 Wheat                4.3       .955     .893    .553
4 Porter               42.9      .138     .050     0
5 Newcastle        25.7       .591     .343    .024
6 Prima                 5.0       .953     .894    .514
7 Iodine              24.7       .895     .715    .062

Most computers want the R, G, B values as %. Just multiply by 100.
Remember that the colors given by these values (or the Y,x,y) values,
tell you what you'd see looking at the beer through a 1 cm cell using
"Illuminant C" if you were a "CIE Standard Observer". A.J. deLange
looking through 5 cm of beer with flourescent light in a room painted
shreiking yellow will not see what a person with "standard" vision would
see in a 1 cm cell in a color comparator using "C".  Thus this system
isn't perfect either - only standard. To give you an idea of how good it
is, this is the system of color measurement used in color TV
broadcasting so the fidelity with which beer color can be communicated
using it is about as good as the fidelity of color reproduction is a
color TV broadcast. Ideally, the color patch you look at on your monitor
should be large and should be on a dark or at least neutral (gray)
background. The room should be dark. Don't expect the little color patch
on your monitor to look like a glass of beer!

Note that I threw iodine in there based on a little further reading in
deClerk. In the good old days color was determined by comparing the
color of the beer to the color of a solution made by diluting n mL of
0.1N iodine in 100 mL of water. Standard cell sizes, the use of "north
light" etc. attempted to take out the variability in conditions and
observers. The color of a sample was n if the n mL dilution best matched
the beer. SRM 24.7 doesn't have any significance. It's just what I got
when I put a drop of tincture of iodine into a cuvette with some
distilled water. The chromaticity for this came out at (.456,.466) with
 -10log luminance at 0.47. (this does not fall on the SRM vs log
luminance fit). Dominant wavelength is 575 and purity 80%. Thus iodine
is about the same color as the light beers I measured though early
workers thought the match poor. Brand thus conconcted a soup of 4 dyes
used in the same way as iodine and the results were expressed in iodine
units. It wasn't long before colorimeters based on colored glasses
resembling the Brand mix were available and the Lovibond colorimeter was
one of these - "one degree Lovibond multiplied by the factor 0.086 is
equivalent to the colour of a decinormal iodine solution." Interested
readers should consult Chapter VIII - Analysis of Malt in Vol II for
more details.



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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:00:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Citrus flavoring


- ------------------------------

Date: 26 Jun 1998 13:14:49 -0400
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: Citric beer/dextrose-malto dex


Has anyone ever tried to use lemon or other citrus fruit in the secondary
(particularly in wheat beer)?  What was the result and how much did you add?

 
I made an interesting beer this fall in which I added a concentrated tea
made from an infusion of fresh lemon grass at bottling. Unfortunately, the 
I grossly underestimated the strength of the tea and the lemon grass
flavor is overpowering in the finished product! Still, I think if scaled
down this could be a winner, especially in a wheat beer. I'm
definitely planning on experimenting with it further next brewing
season  

Anyone else had any experience using lemon grass?


 -----------------------------
Alan Meeker
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Baltimore, MD
_____________________________________________



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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:01:00 +0000
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: re: Big Brew Labels

Charley Burns asks about labels for the Big Brew Barleywine.  I'd 
also like to see them, and I'm sure others would too.  A pointer to a 
web site would be nice, and if needed, I'd be glad to put 
them up {with appropriate credit, of course} if the designer(s) don't 
have their own web space.

Cheers,
Tidmarsh major
tidmarsh at mindspring.com
Birmingham, Alabama


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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:57:47 +0000
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cordials

My wife and I made some liqueurs for Christmas presents several years 
ago and used these sources:

Crosby, Nancy, and Sue Kenny. _Kitchen Cordials_. Westport, Mass.: 
Crosby & Baker Books, 1992.

Freid, Mimi. _Making Liqueurs for Gifts._  Storey Publishing 
Bulletin A-101. Pownall, Vt.: Storey Communications, 1988.

Morris, Mary Aurea, ed. _Glorious Liqueurs: 150 Recipes for Spirited 
Desserts, Drinks, and Gifts of Food._  New Country Fare. New York: 
Lake Isle Press, 1991.  ISBN-0-9627403-1-4

The first two we ordered from St. Pat's of Texas and the third we 
found in a local bookstore.

Cheers,
Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama
Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama
tidmarsh at mindspring.com
"Bot we must drynk as we brew,
   And that is bot reson."
    -The Wakefield Master, Second Shepherds' Play


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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:00:59 +0000
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Homegrown coriander

Doug Moyer asks about harvesting seeds from his cilantro.

I tried this a few years ago when our cilantro went to seed.  I let 
them dry on the plant and then put them in a spice jar.  
Unfortunately, here in the humid South, that wasn't dry enough, and 
they were covered in mold in short order.  If I were to do it again, 
I'd let them dry on the plant and them put them into a food 
dehydrator for another day or so to dry them completely before 
sealing.

Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Alabama
Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama
tidmarsh at mindspring.com
"Bot we must drynk as we brew,
   And that is bot reson."
    -The Wakefield Master, Second Shepherds' Play


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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:05:04 -0400
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Metallurgical question

Greetings!  I have a three keg homemade brewing system.  I have one keg I
use exclusively for sparge water and two that interchangably function as
mashtun / boil kettles.  I live in an area with very hard water.  I acidify
my sparge water with phosphoric acid (works for me, YMMV).  I recently
moved as well.  Since I've moved, I noticed that once I heat my sparge
water, and I end up with a film on top of my sparge water.  It has a
metallic sort of look to it (reminds me vaguely of mica) and floats.  When
the water has been all drained, this leaves a thin white film on the inside
of the keg.  Standard stainless keg with copper ring manifold.  The keg
does show some changes in the bottom due to repeated heating with a jet
style burner adequate to propel a large vehicle down the road.  

Anyhow, does anybody have any idea what this film might be?  Could it be
some of the oxide layer protecting the stainless that is somehow leached
off?  Some other gunk?  Never occurs in the mash or boil tuns.

Also, how about acid washing the stainless?  I've got a gallon of muriatic
acid that I thought I would use to clean each of the kegs.  Dilute the
muriatic acid and wash the kegs (proper eye/skin protective wear) and dry
them.  How long should I leave them alone so they will passivate?  

Thanks for the help.  Private e-mail would be fine

Nathan in Madison, WI
P.S. yes, I recently moved


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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 98 10:45 PDT
From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: Soft, pliable or, How I fell in love with Silicone

Silicone, great stuff. I recently purchased a 5 foot length of 5/16" ID 
silicone tubing. I was getting tired of wrestling with the plastic tubing 
that gets stiff when its cold. When I sanitized the plastic tubing I always 
rinsed it in cold water. I know, I know, you're not supposed to rinse 
Iodophor, but I can't stand the thought of that stuff getting in my beer. I 
brew outside so its hard to get warm running water for rinsing out there.

Now I just toss this very soft and pliable silicone tubing in a kettle of 
boiling water for a few minutes. Does not melt, does not discolor from 
sanitizing either. Granted, it was a bit pricey at $.86 per foot, but it 
will last forever and its so easy to use. I ordered mine from McMaster-Carr 
via the internet. These are the same people that supply stainless fittings 
for kegs and all sorts of other stuff.

Charley (in love with silicone) in N. Cal



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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:33:40 +0000
From: "Jay Spies" <spiesjl at mda.state.md.us>
Subject: stinky starter

Just a quick question to the collective -

I've noticed that every time that I make a starter in my 2K ml 
erlenmeyer flask, it has a distictive and very unpleasant ammonia 
odor when it comes off the boil.  The specifics are 1200 ml water, 
1.6 cups light DME, 1 tsp yeast nutrient.  Bring to a boil, chill, 
aerate with O2, add yeast.  Could this smell be from the yeast 
nutrient?  It's the white, sugary-looking kind, not the tan kind.  
The smell seems to go away as the starter starts, but in the 
beginning, it's vile.

Thoughts or opinions?

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore, MD



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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:58:59 -0400
From: Mark Weaver <brewer at intcom.de>
Subject: Maltose easier to ferment that Glucose????

Hello all,

I recently saw a post on here that was asking if Matlose was easier for
yeast to process or ferment than Glucose.

Considering that yeast cells release the maltose permease enzyme to
allow the molecule of maltose to pass through the cell memberane, and
then once inside the cell, the maltose is broken down by maltase enzyme
into two molecules of Glucose, whereas Glucose passes directly
through the cell membrane and is then broken down into 2 molecules
CO2 and 2 molecules Ethanol via zymase....  er, I think that glucose
is easier to ferment than Maltose... Am I correct or am I missing
something here?

Prost!

Mark
Brewer at intcom.de
Bamberg, Deutschland
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts
72 '02tii, 75 '02, 86 318i, 88 F150 (for the winter, I swear!)
PBS brewing system (10 gallon knockout)







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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Harrington <sjharrington at yahoo.com>
Subject: "Easy" Technique for OG Measurement?

For quite some time I have been omitting the measurement of OGs (I
figured hey, it tastes good, who cares).  But after hearing some much
about stuck fermentations, I decided to start doing it.  I came up
with an approach, and was wondering if it is valid.

I brew in a 5 Gal SS pot, chill an ice bath then siphon into my
fermentor.  I always end up with a hoppy, break riden sludge at the
bottom of the pot after siphoning, and just toss it.  This time I let
all the junk settle out, and took an OG reading from the clear liquid.
 Is this a good way to get a representative reading?

Thanks,

Stephen Harrington
Manhattan Beach, CA




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