HOMEBREW Digest #2755 Wed 01 July 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Kraut/Lactobacillus ("Steve Alexander")
  request for opinions - PU/homemade coolers/other ("Steve Alexander")
  Thickness of Mash effects ("Steve Alexander")
  Valley Mill Gap (Michael Satterwhite)
  Eastern Seaboard Pub Crawl ("Philip J Wilcox")
  medical oxygen (Dave Whitman)
  HBD Babble ("LARSONC%DOM13.DOPO7")
  Re: Be Careful About Windscreen Construction ("Mike & Lynn Key")
  Beer Bullets and Net Nazis ("Grow, Roger H")
  RE: Quit Bitchin' / RIMS...the final froniter (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Aeration of partially fermented Wort (Domenick Venezia)
  More on "respiration" (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  basement brewing (Hans_Geittmann)
  Color Correction ("A. J. deLange")
  Citrus flavoring (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  re: Big Brew Labels ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Re: Cordials ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Homegrown coriander ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Metallurgical question (Nathan Kanous)
  Soft, pliable or, How I fell in love with Silicone (Charley Burns)
  stinky starter ("Jay Spies")
  Maltose easier to ferment that Glucose???? (Mark Weaver)
  "Easy" Technique for OG Measurement? (Stephen Harrington)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 05:15:52 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Kraut/Lactobacillus Jesse Krusemark asks about Kraut, Sauerkraut that is - Not precisely beer related but close enough to include IMO (downpage if you disagree). It is a home fermentation process and does use some of the same skills and tools as brewing - and in any case goes well with beer. Hey - it's summer - and PaulN thinks some of us are too pedantic - so cut me some slack. >[...] All of the kraut recipes I >can find observe no sanitary considerations. They rely on airborne >yeasts. Can anyone help me with a recipe that would kill wild yeasts, >possibly through blanching? Any yeast recommendations? First find the NY state agriculture experimental station bulletin 824 (which is sometimes available online). It contains good procedures. A good technical book is 'Handbook of Anaerobic Fermentation', Erickson, Fung, 1989 Marcel Dekker. Sauerkraut is primarily fermented with lactobacillus not yeast - tho' wild yeast can play an important role in secondary flavors. The process cannot practically make use of boiling or pasteurization or blanching (I've tried) because this ruins the texture of the kraut. Blanching and then storing/fermenting in liquid for an extended period of time results in disgustingly soft mushy kraut. Tight heads of pale green cabbage work best, I've made good kraut from purple cabbage, but the results are more mixed - sometimes a phenolic flavor appears. Reportedly late season cabbage and overwintered cabbage have higher sugar levels and work best. Remove the outer leaves and cut out the hard stem then shred. I recently purchased an Austrian kraut shredder distributed by Kay-Dee industries (no relationship) which is remarkably similar to my great-grandmother's (Pennsylvania Deutch) shredder - The ideal home tool - but a mandolin shredder or even a good knife and patience will suffice.. The water used should be, like brewing water, dechlorinated. I always pre-boil & cool my 'kraut water' to sanitize and remove chlorine. The idea is to dry-salt the shredded cabbage with pure salt (NaCl) (use pickling salt, not iodized salt or sea salt or salt with anticaking agents). This bursts and pulls fluid from the cabbage cells over a period of perhaps 20 minutes. Then add enough water to make a 2.25% brine solution (by weight). Two medium heads of shredded cabbage rubbed with 3.0oz(85gm) of salt, and after a delay, add one gallon(3.8L) of water give about the right proportion of fluid and cabbage, and the correct brine strength. The cabbage should be weighted down as to remain under the brine. Additional brine can be added if necessary to submerge the kraut. A 5gal 'pail' fermentor and a dinner plate as a weight work quite well for me. A lid is needed, and a little CO2 pressure will build, but hardly enough to budge a fermentation lock. The 'fermentation' temperature for this process should be ~23C/73.5F. The fermentation should ideally take 21 days - tho often a bit longer - sometimes a lot longer (up to 60 days). The CO2 generation stops long before the fermentation is finished - bubbling is no guide. I'd advise against using the same 5gal fermentation pail for brewing and krauting to avoid cross infections. The first stage fermentation include Enterobacteria Cloacae (yup - I know it sounds bad), Erwinia Herbicola, Leuconstoc Mesentoides - which are heterofermentive (produce lactic acid and some ethanol+CO2), later Lacto.Plantarum, a homofermentor degrades mannitol from the L.Mesentoides to produce much of the lactic acid that gives good kraut it's 'zing'. Low salt (1% brine) results in high L.Mesentoides levels and a slow, (but eventually too acid) fermentation. Higher salt levels (3%) result in lower acidity. Higher temps (~32C/90F) produce higher acidity and a quicker fermentation, but more off flavors. Low temps (7.5C/45F) result in slow fermentation, low acidity. Note that you must measure the salt and water added to get the proper brine strength. Of course I sanitize everything that comes in contact with the kraut (iodophor) but the several different bacteria which are naturally present on the cabbage *ARE* the taste of kraut. I have made tolerable kraut by culturing lactobacteria starter from lacto pills from a health food store..But not nearly as good as the real thing. If I were energetic enough I could culture and isolate the various bacteria involved - but I don't really see the point. The native culture from the cabbage seems to do a remarkably good job. I have also found some old 1920-1950 references that indicate that the low percentage of ethanol, diacetyl, esters and other wild infection by-products that are present in 'natural' sauerkraut' form an important part of the flavor profile that are missing from kraut made by industrial methods. IMO there is a difference and I prefer the homemade, but it isn't vastly different. Some of the old books include instructions that any surface infection should physically removed (skimmed) and the process allowed to continue. I've never experienced this problem , but suspect that proper submersion of the kraut is critical here. Kraut exposed to air seems to be a good target for molds. After fermentation I prefer to leave the kraut submerged in the saline/lactic acid fluid in a cool place and remove (carefully avoiding infection) just what I will use over a few days - storing the portion in the fridge. Someone else may have a better method for storage & use. As for sanitation and health issues and of course botulism(highly unlikely!) - simmer your kraut before consuming. There is no better protection for a wide variety of potential ills than simmering the product. And there are few things nicer on a cool fall evening than a fine lager, (unrinsed) kraut simmered with a teaspoon of caraway seeds and a good dash of pepper and sauted pork. Now my question - since nothing goes better with a hoppy ale on a hot summer day than Kim Chee (think chunky sauerkraut with tons of garlic and cheyenne) does anyone have a 'recipe' for this over-the-top Korean fermented vegetable food ? I've seen some 'fire-eaters' gasp at a good kim-chee. Are my taste buds ruined ? Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 02:16:03 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: request for opinions - PU/homemade coolers/other Dr. Pivo suggests PU at the source is nothing like export PU. I can appreciate that Pilsner Urquell exported to the US in bottles was/is frequently miserable - oxidized and sometimes skunky., Over the past few years I've been able to find PU on tap more frequently which is certainly a much better product than the bottled variety in the US. Can anyone here compare the export kegged product to the 'real thing' from experience. I'd like to know what I'm missing without incurring a trip to the Czech republic. - -- George DePiro suggests a fermentation cooler idea , >I built a cold box that I keep at ~37F (2.8C). My idea is to keep a >reservoir of cold water in the box, with a copper coil running through >it. This coil will be hooked up to another coil outside of the cold >box. This second coil will be immersed in water in an insulated >container of some sort (this will be called the "fermentation >reservoir"). The fermenters will sit in the water with the second >coil. A pump will circulate the liquid between the two coils. Darren Scourfield adds >Why not delete the coil in the "fermentation reservoir" and just >circulate the water in the "fermentation reservoir". >This would eliminate one heat exchange operation. Better yet - eliminate the copper altogether and just pump water from the cold reservoir to the fermentation reservoir. No exchangers. Easy to use plastic hoses. If you go this way you may find that 55gallon plastic drums - the sort used to ship fruit juice and flavorings where the entire lid, not just the bungs are removable. form a very attractive fermentation reservoir. They're cheap on the surplus market, if you can find them. ' can probably be insulated from the exterior with water heater insulation. These should fit anything from several cornelius kegs up to a sanke sized fermentor. I would plan in using something in the water reservoirs to prevent bacterial and algae growth - maybe the stuff they put in waterbeds -(copper sulfate ?? not sure). The ability of this design to work is almost entirely dependent on your ability to insulate the system. Insulation is important for another reason - those cool exposed surfaces will gather quite a bit of condensation on a humid day - forming a neat environment for bacteria molds etc. This is another reason I'm not fond of plywood or particleboard cooler box designs. In the past I've entertained various ideas for fermentation/lagering designs and in the end I always find that once any reasonable allowance for construction effort and the cost of pumps, fans, insulation, material, temp controller is included a used fridge or freezer with controller looks pretty attractive - a la Fred Kingston's recent post. Even new low-end chest freezers look pretty good. Do any cold box, fridge extension builders care to disagree ? - -- Tim Haby asks about making a sleeve to surround his Cajun Cooker from a 55gallon metal drum. Consider using a galvanized metal trash can (inverted). Cheaper, easier to cut ... I haven't tried it. YMMV. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 06:28:36 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Thickness of Mash effects This is one of those pedantic posts - so PaulN - please page down. There have been some recent postings regarding the thickness (water:grist ratio) of the mash and it's effects on the mash. A really nice paper, 'The Influence of Grain Components on Infusion Mash Performance', JIB vol97, pp93-100, 1991, by Robert Muller discusses this issue. Extract drops off dramatically below a ratio of 2.0 (1 qt/lb) and the extraction rate continues to improve for thinner mashes - tho' not by much for mashes thinner than 3.0. Gelatinization of a control mash continues to improve with thinner mashes - but adding a 10% hordein load to the mash created an optima at ~2.0 again. Adding 10% beta glucan cause a fluctuation in gelatinization vs thinness, with an optima at 5.0 (the thinnest mash tested). A mash with 50% 2-row malt and 50% raw barley also got improved extraction in thinner mashes, but the curve leveled off above about 3.0 (versus 2.0 for an all malt mash). Mashes with 50% wheat starch leveled around 2.0, but mashes with 50% maize(corn) starch or potato starch continued to show significantly better extraction at ratios up to 7.0. In a separate test, maltose was added to a mash and the gelatinization declined as the maltose concentration increased. Also extraction (from the malt) declined as maltose was added - much moreso in thicker mashes. The author concludes through several additional tests and analyses, that enzymatic activity in the mash is water limited, and that this explains the improved enzyme activity in thinner mashes. In another paper from the same source & author (just a few pages before), thin mashes at 70C showed a decline in fermentability above 3.0 and a slight increase in the amount of starch present at about the same point. I think the logical conclusion, as several have already noted, is that the enzymes conck out faster in thinner mashes. This is pretty well known and explainable from theory. Rules of thumb that I (not the author) conclude. If you are using an starch adjunct other than malted barley or wheat starch - a thinner mash, perhaps much thinner, may help substantially- although pregelatinization is the better course. Ratios below 1qt/lb(2.0) are generally losers. In fact ratios below 1.5qt/lb(3.0) probably incur losses to extraction and gelatinization. The thinner the mash the more care is needed to preserve the enzyme activity. Maltose is apparently inhibitory to extraction and initial (not necessarily enzymatic) gelatinization. Beta-glucans seem to reduce gelatinization regardless of the ratio - but moreso in thicker mashes. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:53:45 -0500 From: Michael Satterwhite <satterwh at weblore.com> Subject: Valley Mill Gap > >Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:23:17 -0500 >From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr at popmail.mcs.net> >Subject: Grain mill settings > >John, as I recall you asked about a specific grain mill. I use a Valley >mill. I use about .049" for two row pale and .035" for wheat malt. I also have a Valley mill. Where did you get the numbers the settings correspond to? There are seven settings on the mill, but I don't see anywhere that they tell us what gap these settings correspond to. - ---Michael "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech" http://www.weblore.com/soapbox New: Freedom and Responsibility Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:47:46 -0400 From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Eastern Seaboard Pub Crawl From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 06/29/98 08:47 AM Hi All, Normally I'd do this leg work myself, but since I do not have web access I'm finding it difficult. My summer break is taking me through the following cities. Any info on brewpubs (afterall we have to eat somewhere), would be much appreciated. Baltimore, Washington D.C. Myrtle Beach SC., Charleston SC. Clearwater/Tampa/St. Pete and Knoxville. I leave on late this week and wont have access to email at all but will have access to the net when I reach Flordia. If anyone wants to meet at one of these pubs and talk home brew, that would be really cool, just be sure to bring a spouse so my wife has someone to talk to. ;<) Thankyou in advance, Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewery Sec/treas/Editor/WebGuy for the {deleted} Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:19:38 -0500 From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com> Subject: medical oxygen In HBD#2751, Al K writes: >Same oxygen. The only difference between medical grade and industrial >grade oxygen is that you need to drag around a stack of paperwork on >the tank that *holds* the oxygen in the case of medical O2. I've read >(here in HBD) even that some medical oxygen has anti-fungal agents >added, but have not seen it confirmed by anyone. If that is indeed >true, medical grade would be worse. I'm not sure what gas you could add to a mixture to discourage fungus (Cl2? O3? HF?), but I don't think I'd want to breath it. If memory serves, the only difference between welding and medical oxygen is that the medical oxygen is a little less pure. LESS PURE? It turns out that in mammals, the breathing reflex is triggered not so much by lack of O2, but rather by build-up of CO2. Medical oxygen is spiked with a small amount of CO2 to encourage breathing. You also want some H2O in there to avoid dehydrating the lungs, but I think that's normally introduced at point-of-use by bubbling the gas through water. Either grade of oxygen should be just fine for brewing, but welding grade is usually a lot cheaper. - -- Dave Whitman dwhitman at rohmhaas.com "Opinions expressed are those of the author, and not Rohm and Haas Company" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:01:04 -0400 From: "LARSONC%DOM13.DOPO7" <Erik.Larson at MS01.DO.treas.sprint.com> Subject: HBD Babble Date: 06/29/1998 09:50 am (Monday) From: C. Erik Larson To: EX.MAIL."post@hbd.org" Subject: HBD Babble I cant see any brewing-related usefullness in posts such as those by Sam Mize which "welcome new posters" on a daily basis, or other posts which discuss what the content of HBD posts should be. These posts serve only to lengthen the time for throughput of all HBD postings. Mr Mize, I would appreciate it if you fulfulled your need to "welcome new posters" by priave e-mail. ps -- I'm still wondering what the effect will be on my kegs of Dopplebock from prolonged storage at 70-80F. Cheers, Erik Larson Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:28:10 -0400 From: "Mike & Lynn Key" <flakeys at ibm.net> Subject: Re: Be Careful About Windscreen Construction Tim, Be careful about making that windscreen for your Cajun Cooker. I made a windscreen for my cooker that extended down to the ground. The windscreen did a fine job of keeping out the wind but it did too good a job of keeping in the heat. The heat was so intense near the ground that it started to melt the hose from the propane tank to the cooker! Fortunately I caught it in time. My suggestion is to not extend the windscreen all the way to the ground. - ---- Cordially, R. Michael Key "Extremism in the pursuit of prudence is no vice"--Greasy Fingers, Chicago Gangsters "I stink, therefore I offend"--Da Card, Greasy Fingers' little brother >Tim writes: >"I am thinking of making a sleeve to go around my cajun cooker. The Idea >that I have is to cut a 55 gal drum perpendicular to its axis at a length >that would just be taller than the top of the burner. The reasons for >this >are to block the wind (I brew outside) and to focus the heat on the >bottom of the converted keg boiler. If anyone has done this before I >would >greatly appreciate the do's and dont's." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:58:26 -0600 From: "Grow, Roger H" <GrowRH at LOUISVILLE.STORTEK.COM> Subject: Beer Bullets and Net Nazis Beer Bullets: In HBD 2752 Marc Battreall asks about Beer Bullets. Here's my take. Actually B.B.s were explained fairly well by my friend Brian: Each time you want to do something beer related, your wife (sig other) hands you a gun filled with an indeterminate amount of Beer Bullets. You point the gun at the "yes you may" target, squeeze the trigger and pray you don't hear the dreaded, dry "click". Should this click occur, you will be denied permission to invite 18 of your closest friends over for an informal "Wee Heavy" tasting or that trip to Coors to watch the barley germinate. More B.B.s can be earned by mowing the lawn, vacuuming, shoe shopping or any of the other things you should have been doing when you were otherwise occupied with beer. You never know how many beer bullets you actually have, or when the bullet you earned last Tuesday will expire. Only the truly wise brew master can accurately predict the outcome of each squeeze. Unless, of course, you're an AHA administrator, and you just shrug and say "Sorry honey, it's my job, I HAVE to go." But that's another story. Net Nazis: Well, it has happened. Some do-gooder out there has created this corporate baby sitting software for the net. Like virus software, companies can get weekly updates to the list of "non work related" sites that the proxy server will not go to. That's right, Beer is now a dirty word up there with kiddy-porn and fertilizer bomb sites. Never mind the schmuck who sits at work all day building his stock portfolio on company time, financial pages might be related to work, so they're ok. But heaven forbid someone should search for an altbeir recipe on his lunchbreak (really, on my lunchbreak, I promise). Be afraid, cyber-censorship is headed for a proxy server near you. Unless Otherwise Specified: Roger Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:24:02 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Quit Bitchin' / RIMS...the final froniter From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) >Could it be as simple as running the wort thru the pump and then thru >a coil of copper tubing which is submerged in hot water that's heated with >propane? Could it be this simple?? Seems alot easier than >building a 1/2 barrel steam cooker. If I used, say a 50' ft. roll of 1/2" copper >and placed it in a 1/2 barrel keg filled with water that's heated underneath, >would it raise the mash temps. in an acceptable time? Sure could. I am using 25 foot of 1/2 ID copper tubing in my HLT connected with Tygon tubing to a pump and circulate through the mash. My coil is not mounted, just thrown in loosely. I have noticed that the temperature stepping goes much faster if I rock the coil while stepping, much like the immersion chiller chills faster when rocking. This coil in heated liquid works very well, and just about guaranties no scorching problems with the wort. When I first start to step up the mash temp, I start with the heating water temperature about 5 - 10 degrees higher than my target temperature. This gives me a running start, and helps shorten the stepping time. Another effect, is that I can also lower the mash temp, say if I am doing a decoction, and my target mash temp is a bit high, I can place the coil into a cool water bucket and lower the mash temperature at will. If you haven't guessed by now, I think this method is great! Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:30:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Domenick Venezia <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Aeration of partially fermented Wort > ... I want to just drop my stone into the partially fermented wort and > blast the heck out of it to re-aerate the brew. By the time you read > this I will have already done just that ... Steve! Don't do it! Oh, no, too late. > ... once the yeast was roused and surrounded by a sufficient amount of > O2, that the little worker yeast's will probably scrub out most of the > problems ... > ... At least it has approx. 4% alch. already ... I once did just this to a stuck ESB. Yuck. Well diluted with a stiff hop tea, I made it through a couple of gallons before the remaining brew was so stale that the last 3 gallons went down the drain. Actually, your 26 pt drop yields about 3.3% ABV rather than 4%, and if you did aerate then the less alcohol the better, because the less fermentation products there are the less there are to oxidize into unwanted compounds. My guess is that to jump start the yeasties you will need to heavily aerate and so will promote some unwanted oxidation. Let us know about the final taste profile. IMHO the proper course of action would have been to stash the fermenter in the refrigerator (may not be possible for you), and then quickly build a big, bad, aerated starter. To speed the new starter along I'd probably start with a gallon or more of 1.050 wort from dry malt extract and yeast nutrient, pitch a few packs of yeast, then aerate continuously or many times a day. After 3-4 days, I'd refridgerate the starter and let all the yeast settle, then decant all the (now very nasty) starter solution, and pitch the rest into the original brew which would then be removed from the refridgerator to warm and restart. I hope you get away with it. If the off-flavors are not too bad you may be able to dilute the Tripel to a Dubel or a Singel, and make it palatable. Domenick Venezia demonick at zgi dot com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:36:37 -0400 (EDT) From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: More on "respiration" NERD ALERT! Technical details follow.... previously posted: --------------------------------- Nathan questions the HBD definition of respiration, citing two definitions that he found: "New Gould Medical Dictionary" -"The interchange of gases of the living and the gases of the medium in which they live, through any channel, as in cutaneous respiration" from "Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary"- "2. biol. a. the sum total of the physical and chemical processes in an organism by which oxygen and carbohydrates are assimilated into the system and the oxidation products, carbon dioxide and water are given off." He claims that by these definitions, yeast do indeed respire in wort. I guess they do according to the wording of the first definition, but the second definition does NOT support the notion that yeast respire. Fermentation does not produce CO2 and water. It produces CO2 and ethanol. If water was the by-product of fermentation, I doubt beer would have enjoyed such immense popularity throughout the ages! As a biochemistry major, I was taught that there are two distinct types of respiration, as the above definitions illustrate. One refers to physical gas exchange. The other refers to a specific set of chemical reactions that metabolize a carbon source into simpler products, thus releasing energy. Oxygen is utilized in the pathway. Yeast don't respire (chemically) in wort. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) ANAL reply - Well... that's not quite accurate. Fermentation does in fact produce water in the early steps of anaerobic glycolysis (ultra nerdiness: 2 molecules of H2O are made from each molecule of glucose during the conversion of 2-phosphoglycerate to phosphoenolpyruvate) As far as whether yeast are "respiring" or not under various conditions I imagine the answer will depend on which of the MANY definitions of respiration one is using in posing the question. It seems that there are as many definitions of the word respiration out there as there are biochem texts! -Alan Meeker P.S. for all of us hop growers... the books are right - hops don't like lots of water!!! - waiting for the rain to stop in Baltimore. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:32:48 -0600 From: Hans_Geittmann at notes.seagate.com Subject: basement brewing I rember seeing questions posted about the safety of brewing in basements, using a gas fired burner. Unfortunately, I can't remember any of the answers from people who actually tried it, only those cautionary responses about CO levels. SO, anyone out there successfully brewing with propane in their basement? Any suggestions about ventilation or other safety issues? Thanks Hans - -- Hans Geittmann Seagate Technology Hans_Geittmann at notes.seagate.com 303.684.2115 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:48:59 -0500 From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Color Correction Lest the subject mislead, this post isn't about photography but rather to correct some goofs in my last two posts. In two places I said ASBC (i.e.) SRM color is measured in a inch. It's a half inch! In fact the measurement is usually made in a 1 cm cell and corrected to a half inch. The wedge of angles (9 deg) that I mentioned is a wedge of 9 degrees when viewed from the chromaticity origin (x=0, y=0). It makes much more sense to look at the wedge which originates from the achromatic point (x=.31, y=.31). From that point the wedge is 33 degrees wide. Another way to look at things is to note that the beer predominant wavelengths I measured span the 575 - 588 nm range out of the 400 - 700 range of visible colors or 4% of that range. Interestingly enough, in that region of the chromaticity diagram where beer falls, we are (well, you are) more sensitive to differences in saturation (purity) than hue (color). If you are interested in seeing how much color shift we are talking about, the following table gives the R, G, B values for the tested beers. You can fiddle with these values on your PC to see how sensitive you are to the color changes: Beer SRM R G B 1 Pils 13.8 .833 .676 .151 2 Pils 14.5 .808 .662 .140 3 Wheat 4.3 .955 .893 .553 4 Porter 42.9 .138 .050 0 5 Newcastle 25.7 .591 .343 .024 6 Prima 5.0 .953 .894 .514 7 Iodine 24.7 .895 .715 .062 Most computers want the R, G, B values as %. Just multiply by 100. Remember that the colors given by these values (or the Y,x,y) values, tell you what you'd see looking at the beer through a 1 cm cell using "Illuminant C" if you were a "CIE Standard Observer". A.J. deLange looking through 5 cm of beer with flourescent light in a room painted shreiking yellow will not see what a person with "standard" vision would see in a 1 cm cell in a color comparator using "C". Thus this system isn't perfect either - only standard. To give you an idea of how good it is, this is the system of color measurement used in color TV broadcasting so the fidelity with which beer color can be communicated using it is about as good as the fidelity of color reproduction is a color TV broadcast. Ideally, the color patch you look at on your monitor should be large and should be on a dark or at least neutral (gray) background. The room should be dark. Don't expect the little color patch on your monitor to look like a glass of beer! Note that I threw iodine in there based on a little further reading in deClerk. In the good old days color was determined by comparing the color of the beer to the color of a solution made by diluting n mL of 0.1N iodine in 100 mL of water. Standard cell sizes, the use of "north light" etc. attempted to take out the variability in conditions and observers. The color of a sample was n if the n mL dilution best matched the beer. SRM 24.7 doesn't have any significance. It's just what I got when I put a drop of tincture of iodine into a cuvette with some distilled water. The chromaticity for this came out at (.456,.466) with -10log luminance at 0.47. (this does not fall on the SRM vs log luminance fit). Dominant wavelength is 575 and purity 80%. Thus iodine is about the same color as the light beers I measured though early workers thought the match poor. Brand thus conconcted a soup of 4 dyes used in the same way as iodine and the results were expressed in iodine units. It wasn't long before colorimeters based on colored glasses resembling the Brand mix were available and the Lovibond colorimeter was one of these - "one degree Lovibond multiplied by the factor 0.086 is equivalent to the colour of a decinormal iodine solution." Interested readers should consult Chapter VIII - Analysis of Malt in Vol II for more details. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:00:33 -0400 (EDT) From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Citrus flavoring - ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 1998 13:14:49 -0400 From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com Subject: Citric beer/dextrose-malto dex Has anyone ever tried to use lemon or other citrus fruit in the secondary (particularly in wheat beer)? What was the result and how much did you add? I made an interesting beer this fall in which I added a concentrated tea made from an infusion of fresh lemon grass at bottling. Unfortunately, the I grossly underestimated the strength of the tea and the lemon grass flavor is overpowering in the finished product! Still, I think if scaled down this could be a winner, especially in a wheat beer. I'm definitely planning on experimenting with it further next brewing season Anyone else had any experience using lemon grass? ----------------------------- Alan Meeker Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine Baltimore, MD _____________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:01:00 +0000 From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com> Subject: re: Big Brew Labels Charley Burns asks about labels for the Big Brew Barleywine. I'd also like to see them, and I'm sure others would too. A pointer to a web site would be nice, and if needed, I'd be glad to put them up {with appropriate credit, of course} if the designer(s) don't have their own web space. Cheers, Tidmarsh major tidmarsh at mindspring.com Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:57:47 +0000 From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Cordials My wife and I made some liqueurs for Christmas presents several years ago and used these sources: Crosby, Nancy, and Sue Kenny. _Kitchen Cordials_. Westport, Mass.: Crosby & Baker Books, 1992. Freid, Mimi. _Making Liqueurs for Gifts._ Storey Publishing Bulletin A-101. Pownall, Vt.: Storey Communications, 1988. Morris, Mary Aurea, ed. _Glorious Liqueurs: 150 Recipes for Spirited Desserts, Drinks, and Gifts of Food._ New Country Fare. New York: Lake Isle Press, 1991. ISBN-0-9627403-1-4 The first two we ordered from St. Pat's of Texas and the third we found in a local bookstore. Cheers, Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama tidmarsh at mindspring.com "Bot we must drynk as we brew, And that is bot reson." -The Wakefield Master, Second Shepherds' Play Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:00:59 +0000 From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Homegrown coriander Doug Moyer asks about harvesting seeds from his cilantro. I tried this a few years ago when our cilantro went to seed. I let them dry on the plant and then put them in a spice jar. Unfortunately, here in the humid South, that wasn't dry enough, and they were covered in mold in short order. If I were to do it again, I'd let them dry on the plant and them put them into a food dehydrator for another day or so to dry them completely before sealing. Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama tidmarsh at mindspring.com "Bot we must drynk as we brew, And that is bot reson." -The Wakefield Master, Second Shepherds' Play Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:05:04 -0400 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Metallurgical question Greetings! I have a three keg homemade brewing system. I have one keg I use exclusively for sparge water and two that interchangably function as mashtun / boil kettles. I live in an area with very hard water. I acidify my sparge water with phosphoric acid (works for me, YMMV). I recently moved as well. Since I've moved, I noticed that once I heat my sparge water, and I end up with a film on top of my sparge water. It has a metallic sort of look to it (reminds me vaguely of mica) and floats. When the water has been all drained, this leaves a thin white film on the inside of the keg. Standard stainless keg with copper ring manifold. The keg does show some changes in the bottom due to repeated heating with a jet style burner adequate to propel a large vehicle down the road. Anyhow, does anybody have any idea what this film might be? Could it be some of the oxide layer protecting the stainless that is somehow leached off? Some other gunk? Never occurs in the mash or boil tuns. Also, how about acid washing the stainless? I've got a gallon of muriatic acid that I thought I would use to clean each of the kegs. Dilute the muriatic acid and wash the kegs (proper eye/skin protective wear) and dry them. How long should I leave them alone so they will passivate? Thanks for the help. Private e-mail would be fine Nathan in Madison, WI P.S. yes, I recently moved Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 98 10:45 PDT From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) Subject: Soft, pliable or, How I fell in love with Silicone Silicone, great stuff. I recently purchased a 5 foot length of 5/16" ID silicone tubing. I was getting tired of wrestling with the plastic tubing that gets stiff when its cold. When I sanitized the plastic tubing I always rinsed it in cold water. I know, I know, you're not supposed to rinse Iodophor, but I can't stand the thought of that stuff getting in my beer. I brew outside so its hard to get warm running water for rinsing out there. Now I just toss this very soft and pliable silicone tubing in a kettle of boiling water for a few minutes. Does not melt, does not discolor from sanitizing either. Granted, it was a bit pricey at $.86 per foot, but it will last forever and its so easy to use. I ordered mine from McMaster-Carr via the internet. These are the same people that supply stainless fittings for kegs and all sorts of other stuff. Charley (in love with silicone) in N. Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:33:40 +0000 From: "Jay Spies" <spiesjl at mda.state.md.us> Subject: stinky starter Just a quick question to the collective - I've noticed that every time that I make a starter in my 2K ml erlenmeyer flask, it has a distictive and very unpleasant ammonia odor when it comes off the boil. The specifics are 1200 ml water, 1.6 cups light DME, 1 tsp yeast nutrient. Bring to a boil, chill, aerate with O2, add yeast. Could this smell be from the yeast nutrient? It's the white, sugary-looking kind, not the tan kind. The smell seems to go away as the starter starts, but in the beginning, it's vile. Thoughts or opinions? Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:58:59 -0400 From: Mark Weaver <brewer at intcom.de> Subject: Maltose easier to ferment that Glucose???? Hello all, I recently saw a post on here that was asking if Matlose was easier for yeast to process or ferment than Glucose. Considering that yeast cells release the maltose permease enzyme to allow the molecule of maltose to pass through the cell memberane, and then once inside the cell, the maltose is broken down by maltase enzyme into two molecules of Glucose, whereas Glucose passes directly through the cell membrane and is then broken down into 2 molecules CO2 and 2 molecules Ethanol via zymase.... er, I think that glucose is easier to ferment than Maltose... Am I correct or am I missing something here? Prost! Mark Brewer at intcom.de Bamberg, Deutschland Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts 72 '02tii, 75 '02, 86 318i, 88 F150 (for the winter, I swear!) PBS brewing system (10 gallon knockout) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:32:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Harrington <sjharrington at yahoo.com> Subject: "Easy" Technique for OG Measurement? For quite some time I have been omitting the measurement of OGs (I figured hey, it tastes good, who cares). But after hearing some much about stuck fermentations, I decided to start doing it. I came up with an approach, and was wondering if it is valid. I brew in a 5 Gal SS pot, chill an ice bath then siphon into my fermentor. I always end up with a hoppy, break riden sludge at the bottom of the pot after siphoning, and just toss it. This time I let all the junk settle out, and took an OG reading from the clear liquid. Is this a good way to get a representative reading? Thanks, Stephen Harrington Manhattan Beach, CA _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
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