---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  375 mL Lambic/Champagne Bottles ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  Topping Off ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  Fermenting in Cornies ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  JudgeNet (fwd) (Some Guy)
  RE Jethro and Jack ("Tim Fields")
  Re: Dryhopping Bohemian and Pilsner Lagers / % By Extract (Tony Barnsley)
  Re: 375 mL Lambic/Champagne Bottles ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  PubTour Thank You's/Jethro ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Re: Grist %, dry hopped lagers ("Jim Busch")
  Percentage recipe by extract or weight? (Michael Rose)
  Aerating starters (John Wilkinson)
  Source for Large O-rings for Keg Lids ("Arthur McGregor")
  Re: Short Lag Times (Scott Murman)
  Brewing classes (Steve Potter)
  Carbonation (Keith Busby)
  Percentage Shall Be Laid To Rest:   RIP ("LordPeter")
  pitching yeast when ? ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Maple Ale datapoint (Alan Edwards)
  How do I use my counter-pressure filler? (ale)
  Maudite & La Fin du monde (Shane Cook)
  HBD brew club (Mark Tumarkin)
  Soda Kegs: Summary (David Monday)
  Re: When is a pint a pint? (Scott Murman)
  Lemon zest (TPuskar)
  Thermal mass (fridge)
  Wyeast 3068 ("Paul E. Lyon")


Have you entered a MCAB qualifier yet?


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:05:59 -0400
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <saunderm at vt.edu>
Subject: 375 mL Lambic/Champagne Bottles

Wayne_Kozun at otpp.com asks:

>Has anyone tried using the 375 mL bottles that lambic come in for bottling
>their beer (I believe these are actually just 375 mL champagne bottles)?

and

>And what if I want to cork these bottles instead of capping.  Do you need a
>special corker to cork champagne bottles?

I cork finish part of all my batches.  Not only does it really look classy
when you bring a 750 over to friends  which does that delightful pop, but I
find in certain styles (belgian for example) the beer simply taste better
coming from a cork finish.  This could simply be my imagination--but ah
well.

In corking these bottles I use regular new straight corks. I check to make
sure all the corks are sound, no cracks or big spaces that might harbour
nasties.  I soak and sanitize them for about a day using a crushed campden
tablet and water, holding the corks in that solution by trapping them under
a plate that is slightly smaller than my soaking vessle.  The day of
bottling, I bring them up to a gentle boil.  This may be over-kill, but
I've not had a cork cause me infection in a bottle yet.  I cork them just
the way I would cork wine.  I take the top mushroom part of a champagne
cork cut in 1/2, put it on top of the neck of the bottle and cage it.  If
you collect the little metal do-hickeys from the spent cages of champagne
or lambics, you can throw one of these into your new cage as well.  Put the
bottle on its side in a wine rack or cardboard wine box, let age.
Sometimes you will see a little seepage at the beginning and sometimes the
pressure in the bottle will start forcing your cork out a bit.  This is
normal.

When opening, you will probably need a corkscrew.  Take the cage and
mushroom top off and open the bottle like you would wine.  Be careful when
pulling the cork, there is a fair amount of pressure there and you don't
want to send a cork screw across the room.

M.


===========================================================
The Arts in Technology--Creative Consulting and Contracting

J. Matthew Saunders (540)951-3090
saunderm at vt.edu  http://dogstar.bevd.blacksburg.va.us/

"We have to work in the theatre of our own time,
with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones
===========================================================




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:39:34 PDT
From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Topping Off

Pete Perez in HBD 2729 asks about topping off for an extract of partial 
 mash brew and some sparging problems:

As you state you have moved into all grain brewing, you are likely to 
 find that your amount of break material will increase from your extract brews.

Topping off with plain water (preferrably boiled and chilled) is OK if 
 you are somewhat above your target gravity and want to hit a target 
 volume.  If you already were at your target volume, all you are doing 
 is diluting your beer to get increased volume (sometimes not a bad 
 thing . . . I had about 3.5 gal of a rather strong PrePro Lager in a 
 corny that I topped off with water, took it to 5 gallons and made it 
 into a more appropriate "session" beer - it was a big hit at the 
 family Memorial Day get together!)

I find it better to incorporate the losses of my system (both break and 
 kettle losses) into my overall recipe formulation so that if I want to 
 end up with 5.0 gallons of beer to bottle or keg, I may actually start 
 with 5.5 gallons in the fermenter to cover trub/break losses.  In the 
 boil pot I may have to start with about 7 gallons because I'll lose a 
 gallon or so to the boil, and another half gallon to pellet Hop 
 Spooge(tm) in the bottom of the kettle.  That's why a 10 gallon pot is 
 nice, but not absolutely necessary - you can use a couple of 5 gallons 
 pots to the same effect.  Before I got my 10 gallon pot, I used 2 - 5 
 gallon ones - and split the boil between them - roughly splitting the 
 hops additions as well.

Once you have a sense for your systems losses you can formulate your 
 recipes accordingly - so that you end up with enough wort in the 
 fermenter at the proper gravity that you were shooting for.

On the stuck mash issue - more info is needed as to your procedures to 
 really make any recommendations.  What are your grain bills like?  
 What are you sparging through - false bottom, copper manifold, EZ 
 masher type gizmo?  What temp are you sparging at?  Keep it hot - 
 around mash out temp of 170 has always worked for me.  Calibrated your 
 thermometer lately? Also, FWIW, I batch sparge rather than fly sparge 
 (as you describe) - no need to synch up the flow rates, just check the 
 level every few minutes.

Good Brewing!

Stephen
On Brewing Hiatus in Ontario NY
(except for maybe 12 gallons of mead if I can sneak it in!)

ps - say Hi to Louis G!



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:03:27 PDT
From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Fermenting in Cornies

Kyle asks in HBD 2769 about fermenting in corny kegs:

Since I lucked into a half dozen glass carboys at a garage sale 
 (bringing my total to 10!), I haven't had to resort to fermenting in 
 cornies, but I have in the past - especially nice for lagering in my 
 beermeister (which can fit 4 cornies or 3 cornies and one 5 gallon 
 carboy or 2 cornies and 2 - 5 gallon carboys, or 2 cornies and one 7 
 gallon carboy - whew! and since I like to keep one corny on tap and a 
 spare cold, and I typically primary ferment in a 7 gallon carboy, my 
 options are somewhat limited!)

>From my experience:  

Secondary fermenting in a corny is better than primary, all that trub 
 may clog up your dip tube pretty good if you try to transfer that way 
 - after one racking, it's usually pretty manageable.  I've used a 
 corny for long secondary lagers when space in the 'meister gets tight.

For an airlock, you can use a small piece of tubing that you force over 
 the hole where the gas poppet and tube would go.  Over that tubing, 
 put a larger diameter piece of tubing that fits snugly over the small 
 tubing and also will fit a small stopper (#5?) and put your airlock in 
 the stopper.

If you even think you may have some blow off, you may not want to use a 
 corny, as the small hole may easily plug and create significant 
 pressure . . . to possibly disasterous and definitely messy results! 
 (again a good vote for use as a secondary!)

Cleaning them is a bit harder than when used for kegging because of the 
 increased trub, but not that much - a good soak and a rinse should 
 work nicely.

Brew On!
Stephen
On Brewing Hiatus in Ontario NY
(but working down my inventory at a pretty good rate!)


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:00:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: JudgeNet (fwd)



- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:12:17 -0400
From: Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com>
To: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Re: 

After a prolonged absence due to a server failure and transition to a new
operating system, the original JudgeNet is back online.  

JudgeNet is a public digest for the discussion of topics of interest to
beer competition judges and organizers.  JudgeNet is moderated by BJCP
master beer judge Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com> and is sponsored by
SynchroSystems.

To subscribe to JudgeNet, send a message to mailserver at synchro.com containing:

subscribe judge

Please note that it is not my intention to be contentious with the new
judge digest.  I had already made a significant investment in reviving
JudgeNet when the new digest was announced, and hate to see that effort
wasted.  Perhaps the two digests can evolve to serve different needs.  I am
willing to be quite flexible about the future of JudgeNet and welcome your
suggestions.

Please distribute this message to others who may be interested in JudgeNet.


 - Chuck Cox 
 - SynchroSystems
 - <chuck at synchro.com>



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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:18:12 -0400
From: "Tim Fields" <tfields at his.com>
Subject: RE Jethro and Jack

In #2767 Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> asks:

>Who or what is Jethro Gump and why does someone name Rob Moline
>post it?

Jethro owns a shrimp business, and he dabbles in writing.  He lives with
his family in Beverly Hills.  I also heard he brews a little homebrew
occasionally... and they have some pretty wild parties.  I have no idea
who Rob is.  Perhaps it's a Jeykle and Hyde thing with that notoriously
strong ale Jethro brews when the moon is full.

And, in 2768 The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> replied:

>Who or what is  Jack Schmidling and why does someone name  Jack
>Schmidling
>post it?

Jack is a famous astronomer - you haven't heard of him?  Interestingly
enough, his main claim to fame is a grain mill used to crush malted
barley and such for brewing.  Apparently he originally designed the mill
to crush asteroid and comet chunks for galaxial analysis.  I can vouch
for the mill as a brewing tool, but as to the other ...  I also heard he
likes dogs, but I have no idea if that has anything to do with the grain
mill.

- -------------------
Tim Fields
    Fairfax, Va
    tfields at his.com ... www.his.com/tfields


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:39:31 +0100
From: Tony Barnsley <Tony.Barnsley at riva-group.com>
Subject: Re: Dryhopping Bohemian and Pilsner Lagers / % By Extract

Al K Said in HBD #2769

"I don't have Dave Line's book, but it has been posted in HBD that he
does indeed recommend dryhopping lagers, although at a much lower
rate than recommended by Miller.  We should also remember that Line
was British and his methods were no doubt influenced by British
commercial brewers."

I had a look at Dave Lines books and can only find two recipes for
Lagers that are dry hopped, Oddly enough 

Pilsner Urquell 12g Saaz in 25L and
Lowenbrau Light Blonde Special 15g Saaz in 25L

That's from the 26 Lager recipes included in Brewing Beers. Of course
you must remember that these recipes were formulated in 1978, ideas
often change over time. It could be that Dave's interpretation of the
beer 'at that time' lead him to conclude that the beers were dry hopped.
Brewers were much less forthcoming about their practices that long ago.
Graham Wheeler said to me in a recent mail that some British brewers are
still very secretive about some of their recipes e.g. Scottish Courage.

And now onto % by extract Al also said in #2769

"A question for the collective: When you say you made a beer with
"50% wheat," do you mean you got 50% of the extract from wheat or do you
mean that you used 5 pounds of barley malt and 5 pounds of wheat malt?
When you write "...I used 10% Aromatic in my Altbier -- the rest being
Munich" did you figure out points and then do the division or did you
just use 3 pounds of Aromatic and 27 pounds of Munich?"

Sorry Al, But I usually quote a recipe as % by Extract, and yes I do
calculate the points first and do the division and then calculate the
weight. Its a painful process and that's why I let a spreadsheet do the
work for me. You are right in that it becomes important when adding
sugars as these often have widely differing points whereas most grains
have roughly the same points.

Wassail !

Tony, M.i.B (Mashing in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK)



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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:54:44 -0700
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com>
Subject: Re: 375 mL Lambic/Champagne Bottles

Wayne asks about bottling beer in 375 ml or 750 ml champagne-style
bottles.  I have just recently bottled two beers in bottles of this
style (a biere de garde in chimay-type brown bottles and a saison in
green champagne bottles) and thought I would share my experience.  First
of all, I haven't been able to find crown caps of the larger,
euro-dimension anywhere - the only way I have made this work in the past
is by obtaining american champagne bottles (dumpster-diving...) which
will accomodate regular size crown caps.  

The two beers I just bottled I ended up corking with "premium" wine
corks using a large metal corker rented from a homebrew store, which has
an impressive ability to squish corks into tiny shapes.  The first beer
(biere de garde) I left about 3/4 inch of the cork sticking out of the
bottle and then wired the corks down, and the second beer (saison) I
pushed the corks in all the way and wired them down as best I could.  A
couple of observations:
*	Some of the corks leak.  I store the bottles on their sides to
prevent the corks from drying out, and since the corks are fairly porous
(compared to real "champagne" corks which are made of tightly pressed
cork particulates) some beer does end up oozing out.  This wasn't too
bad with the biere de garde, but is worse with the saison as I primed it
at a higher level.
*	The wire cages are a must.  Many of the corks have attempted to
escape the bottles within a week or so after bottling.

The biere de garde turned out fine, although I have yet to taste much
cellar character (still pretty young), and the saison is still
conditioning so the jury is out.  One last note on the 375 ml lambic
bottles - I have used them to bottle sparkling mead and capped them with
plastic champagne corks, which sucked - many of the bottes did not seal
properly and lost carbonation.  Mark Tomusiak, Boulder Colorado.


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:09:38 -0400
From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: PubTour Thank You's/Jethro





From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 07/16/98 11:09 AM

HBDers,

Jack--Others have speculated on the Jethro, heres mine on the Gump!....
- ------
My brewer always told me, homebrew is like a box of chocolates, ya never
know what ya gonna git....
My Eastern Seaboard tour took me to 7 breweries in 12 days on a 3,300 mile
Journey. I think I might have missed a few along the way. (I guess Ill have
to do it over again...;<)

I'd like to thank a few people for meeting my wife and I at their favorite
pubs and as well as for their kind hospitality in touring there own homes
and breweries.

Amy Wajda-Virginia Beverage Co. in Alexandria, VA. Good to see you again.
Mark Tumarkin-The Brewery in the Jungle. (Gainsville) It still shocks me
that the Market Street Pub is an
extract brewery!
Barry Wertheimer, Knoxville, Calhoun's Brewpub, Your beers made it home
safely, can't wait to try them.
Apologies go to Jeffrey Glenn, I couldn't find your ## once we got on the
road.--ask Barry to share!
and finally Head Brewer Paul Phillapon at BrewMasters in Cincinnati. This
place is a Brewery, a pub, and a
Brew-on-premise all in one. It may only be a 3bbl system, but they still
had 12 beers on tap!!!

I'd also like to thank a couple of folks for good suggestions:
Mike, maagm at rica.net, Baltimore Brewing Co. was the best overall brewpub of
 the whole trip!!
Mike Bardallis, Ditto on the BBC, I tried to commit mayhem to get to the
Warf-rat, but the SO wouldn't have any of it. I
guess she figured that the 7 6oz samples and the stein of Doppelbock were
enough for a night...
And last, definitely not least, Probably most--My wife, Janine, for
allowing my hobby to infiltrate our vacation and for
suggesting the Southend Brewery and Smokehouse in Charleston. It was the
first steam fired Brewpub I've ever run
into. Also the only pub I visited twice! In case your counting that only 6.
 The seventh was The Battery also in Charleston, a
small sandwich shop that has a 3 bbl mashtun in the display case in the
front window, and the kettle in the other window.
That's it, no pipes, no electricity, no chiller, no mill, no HLT. I figured
 they had to have been getting contract brews since all I
saw was a kettle and Mash tun that were obviously for display only... Not
the case. They brew once a month and they
close the restaurant and clear out the tables in order to assemble the
brewery. The rest of the equipment is in the attic/loft!
What a lot of work!

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery
Jackson, Mi




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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:18:17 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: Re: Grist %, dry hopped lagers

Percentages of grist per malt variety in recipes are always specified 
in terms of percent of total weight, not extract.  Go with the pros 
on this one and ignore the homebrewer oriented text(s).

Ive never heard of a German lager that is dryhopped on a standard 
basis.  Probably exceptions but not the norm and I seriously doubt 
that Warsteiner is dry hopped.  I have had a microbrewed lager from 
Ca that was dry hopped and while it was very nice it was not the same 
beer style at all.

Prost!

Jim Busch



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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:40:05 -0700
From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Percentage recipe by extract or weight?

To those HBDers who have written or are familiar with some of the
homebrew reciepe programs that have been written-------
Do the programs calculate the grain needed by the weight of the grain or
by the extract available in the grain?      Thanks

         Michael Rose    Riverside, CA    mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jul 98 10:18:29 CDT
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Aerating starters

I think I asked this not long ago but if there was an answer I missed it.
Does it do any good to aerate/oxygenate starters after the sugars are consumed?
Do the yeast only use the oxygen while they are consuming the sugar?

On another note, if you think a bar is serving short pints, tell them.  If it
bothers you too much, take your trade elsewhere.  If one bar sells 12 oz.
"pints" for $3 and another sells 16oz. pints for $4 the price per ounce is the
same.  If you don't like the deal, don't make it.  I think that would be a lot
better than the cost and hassle of government measures police.

By the way, Bennigans (in Texas at least) sells their beer in true US pint
glasses with a mark.  Some have pretty good beers on tap and several bottled
beers.  The one I frequent has Pilsner Urquell, Fuller's ESB, Guinness, and
Murphy's Irish Stout on tap.  They are a little pricey at $4.95/pint but the
pints are 16 oz. if that is a concern.  I have no connection to Bennigan's
other than as a customer.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dscccc.com 


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:37:46 -0400
From: "Arthur McGregor" <MCGREGAP at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Source for Large O-rings for Keg Lids

Hi Everyone!

     I'm looking for a source for 'food-grade' o-ring/gaskets for my keg
lids.  I know Williams Brewing Company has them (I ordered some and they
are NOT 'food grade' IMO since they have a rubber tire smell and taste --
See HBD #2766.  BTW I've only received one response to my post on
off-smell/taste with the keg lid 0-rings. )

     I thought that a homebrew supplier had a larger, softer square-ish
o-ring that was designed to seal leaky kegs, but I can't seem to find it in
the Archives.  TIA.

Hoppy Brewing ,
Art McGregor  (Lorton, VA)
mcgregap at acq.osd.mil




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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:17:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Short Lag Times

Alan Edwards wrote:

> I've contended on several occasions that using an aerating stone is
> a big waste of time and money.  If you want to reduce your lag times,
> you would do better to concentrate on pitching enough yeast (making
> a starter), and worry a little less about geting the wort supersaturated
> with pure O2.

Where did this notion that oxygenating the wort will reduce lag times
get started?  I've never read anything that would support this idea,
and in fact if I'm understanding things correctly, adding O2 will
*increase* your lag times, if anything.  Am I missing something here? 

>From what I understand, the purpose of adding O2 is simply to provide
the yeast with enough building blocks to create ATP (or whatever the
dang chemical acronym is), so that they can perform a healthy
reproduction.  This is useful if you plan on re-pitching your yeast a
number of times, or ferment sans trub, which our Brewer Down Under has
noted will also aid the reproduction process.  The main benefit seems
to be maintaining healthy yeast, which leads to greater alcohol
tolerance, fewer off flavors, and less dead yeast excrement.  Yada,
yada.

Where the heck is this notion of shorter lag times coming from?
Common misconception?

SM (for the record: I oxygenate with pure O2, and have ever since I
found it cured my high FG problems)



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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:35:05 -0500
From: Steve Potter <spotter at MERITER.COM>
Subject: Brewing classes

Dear Collective,
I just received the schedule of brewery workshops from the Milwaukee
Area Technical College.  For those of you close enough to drive to the
classes which are held in West Allis, I highly encourage you to do so.  If
the previous class I attended is any indication, you will receive high
quality information from some of the top people in the industry.

(No affiliation...Just a very satisifed student of one of the
previous courses)

September 12 -  Sensory Evaluation of Beers
   - Basics of tasting
   - Taste session 1 - water and beer
   - Key Flavor Compontents of beer
   - Taste Session II - beers and common reference standards

October 10 - Beer styles and Evaluation
   - Historical Background
   - Key attributes that define a beer
   - Survey of beers - ingredients, processing, outcomes, and tasting

November 7 - Yeast Laboratory, Hands On
   - General microscopic examination
   - Cell counts and Viability Staining
   - Calculation of Pitching rates
   - Acid washing yeast

The classes cost $65 each and they include good donuts!

For more information contact Patricia Wolf  at  (414) 456-5477

I also was informed that starting in Spring of 1999, MATC will be offering
cerificate programs in three areas of brewing operations.  They will offer
a 96 hour entry level program, a 96 hour science and technology
intermediate level program, and a 48 hour business operations program.  
They are looking for input on scheduling of classes - weekdays,
weeknights, or weekends.  If you live close enough to Milwaukee to
attend and would like to complete a survey, e-mail me directly and I will
shoot you a copy of the survey.

If you don't live close enough to Milwaukee to attend these sessions,
start encouraging your local technical schools to offer some brewing
classes!

Steve Potter
Madison, WI


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:37:32 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu>
Subject: Carbonation

I have had a couple of batches, a Wit and a Grand Cru, recently turn out
undercarbonated (5 gals., syrup with 2/3 corn sugar added at bottling).
There are at least three common denominators: bottles rinsed with Iodophor
and left to drain on bottle-tree (not rinsed with water after), coriander,
and Curacao peel. Could any of these have caused undercarbonation?

Keith Busby


Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
University of Oklahoma
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel.: (405) 325-5088
Fax: (405) 325-0103


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:35:28 -0700
From: "LordPeter" <BARLEYWINE at prodigy.net>
Subject: Percentage Shall Be Laid To Rest:   RIP

Although you may get repeatable results (if your grain supplier is
consistent, and you stick with them) by using % of total grain weight, if
you are interested in knowing what is really going on in your bill, you must
use % extract.

The point is that we are looking for a certain wort, not a certain grist.
The grist is the means to the end.

I wrote this to Mike Rose in private e-mail, but after seeing AlK's post HBD
#2769 I've decided to submit to the collective. Although I am relatively new
to the HBD, I have been a poster before, and you can expect me around. Thank
you Sam. So, concerning Mike's posting about % and Ray Daniels book:


I haven't looked at Daniels Book (although I met him once in Chicago), but I
agree that you must use the extract from each grain, not a weight. 5 pounds
of M&F pale will give a very different amount of extract than 5 lbs of
Briess 2 row.

The first thing you need to do is figure out how much extract you need to
achieve your gravity. I use the Siebel Institute's brew computer (which is a
handy little slide rule tool), but you can also use charts such as the one
in Noonan's Brewing Lager beer pg 261-2. For instance, I want a OG of 1060.
Noonan says 1.3 lbs extract per gallon. Brew computer says 15.6 kg/hl.

Now convert this to the volume of wort you need, say, 5.5 gallons.

Noonan:    1.3 X 5.5 = 7.15 lbs
Computer:   5.5 gal X 3.79 l/gal = 20.845 liters;
                 (15.6 kg/hl)(1 hl/100liters)(20.845 liters) =  3.25182 kg;
                                         (3.25182 kg)(2.2lb/1kg) = 7.15404
lb;
so either way we see 7.15 lb extract for 5.5 gallons of 1060 wort.

Now we need a percentage contribution from each grain.

Simple recipe for preprohibition pilsner:   80% 6 row, 20% corn.
We also need specs for each of these. Using Briess:

6 row;    78% Fine Grind, Dry Basis, 1.8% Fine Grind/Coarse Grind
Difference,
(unfortunately, Briess will not give the Coarse grind, so we must
extrapolate
from FG and FG:CG Diff)          ((78-(78*0.018)) = 76.6

Flaked Corn        as is                                            88

This means with 100% Brewing Materials Efficiency (BME), we can expect 76.6%
of 6 row and 88% of flaked corn by weight to convert into wort solids. I
have zeroed in on 83% BME for my system. We will use this figure for this
example.

>From above:        7.15 lb extract
6 row:    80% of bill; cg .766; BME .83    (7.15)(.80) = 5.72;

5.72/(.766)(.83) = 8.997 lbs
corn:     20% of bill; .88; .83                   (7.15)(.20) = 1.43;

1.43/(.88)(.83) = 1.958 lbs

This looks to me like 9 lbs 6 row and 2 lbs flaked corn.

Now if you tried this by using a lbs as percent (instead of extract,) how
would that work?

The above recipe (80% 6 R and 20 % corn), using say, Papazians values of:
                            malted barley     25 to 30 pts/lb/gal;
                            grain adjuncts    20 to 35 pts/lb/gal;

where do we start? Ok, so we decide to take the median:
                            malted barley    27.5
                            grain adjunct    27.5

(60 points)(5.5 gallons) = 330 pts.
330 / 27.5 = 12 lbs

6 R ;    (.80)(12) = 9.6 lb
Corn;   (.20)(12) = 2.4 lb

If we used these amounts, (9.6 lbs)(.766)(.83) = 6.10 lbs extract
                                       (2.4 lbs)(.88)(.83)   = 1.75 lbs
extract

7.85 lbs extract total / 5.5 gallons = 1.43 lbs per gallon
Noonan's chart says 1.065 requires 1.41 lbs per gallon, so we are probably
looking at 1.0655, which is quite different from the 1.060 that was
targeted.
Also,  the balance of 6 R to Corn is off.

Other examples may be more or less askew.

I feel this is the more accurate way of writing recipes, although it is
slightly more involved. For me, working these formulae is part of the
intellectual process.


By the way, my Trippel (brew date 7-6-98) had an OG of 1095, and is
fermenting nicely. It has a quite fruity, and almost winey aroma. (Wyeast
1214). I used 85% DW-Cosyns Pils, 10% Briess Flaked Corn, and 5% Light Candi
Sugar. (22.75 liters.) The kettle got 28 g Kent Golding 5.1% for 80 minutes,
14 g Saaz 3.2% for 20 minutes,  7 g StrisselSpalt 4.5% at knock out, and 14
g Bitter Orange Peel for 10 minutes. It was chilled to 58F, and the slurry
from a one gal starter was added. The fermentation temp was allowed to rise
to it's current 68F, which took about three days, by which time the krausen
was about 6 inches high. This will be a MCAB qualifier at the Dixie Cup.
Wish me luck. Or don't.

Cheers.
Peter Gilbreth
barleywine at prodigy.net
www.barleywine.com



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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:58:26 -0400
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at avery.med.virginia.edu>
Subject: pitching yeast when ?

I read this digest almost everyday, when did the technique for
pitching yeast change? I thought everyone who made a starter
waited for the starter to finish and then poured off the
fermentation beer and then pitch the yeast.
When did everyone start pitching three day old ferments?
Rick 


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:23:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com>
Subject: Maple Ale datapoint


For those of you considering Maple as an ingredient, here's
a pale maple ale recipe I made.

I wanted to be able to taste the maple, as opposed to just
adding an interesting twist.  I haven't road tested it much
(keeping it to myself ;-), but I would fully expect most people
not to be able to tell what the special ingredient was.  When
maple is suggested, I would expect people to go "Oh yeah,
maple!".  The beer came out VERY good (IMHO) and I will
definitely brew this one again.  I would not change the amount
of maple syrup I add, I'm very happy with it.

   9# American 2-row
   2# crystal 10 Lovibond
  8oz malted wheat
  4oz flaked barley
 1.42 Liters grade B (med-amber) maple syrup (SG 1.347)
   .4 oz Chinook 60 min boil
   .3 oz Chinook 30 min boil
   .5 oz Cascades 15 min boil

  6.7 gallons, final volume
  1.058 OG; 1.011 FG (6.2% alc)

Notes:
  Standard practice for me has been to add wheat for trub percipitation
  and flaked barley for head retention.  Recently, I've switched to making
  flaked barley 10% of the grain bill and not adding the wheat anymore.

  Alpha acid ratings of hops unknown (they were homegrown).
  Not a lot of finishing hops to contend with maple aroma.

  1.42 Liters maple syrup was arrived at by calculating the extract (after
  the mash) and adding enough syrup to make it's contribution exactly
  33% of the total specific gravity points.

First the beer was fermented without the syrup, at a 4 gallon volume for
8 days.  The syrup (Trader Joe's grade B from Quebec) was added to boiling
water to pasturize and allowed to cool on it's own, covered.  Then the
syrup was added along with enough sterile water to arrive at the target
gravity (which came out to 6.7 gallons).

The ale is on the sweet side of balanced and has a pronounced maple
flavor.  The maple flavor is very yummy, and not cloying at all (for my
tastes).  If you are not into beers on the sweet side, adding a little
more bittering hops probably would be result in a more enjoyable product
for you.

 -Alan in Fremont, CA


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: ale at cisco.com
Subject: How do I use my counter-pressure filler?

Help, I now have bottles of flat beer!
Well, they are "half flat" (as opposed to half-carbonated ;-).

There appears to be a balancing-act at work here:

 1) If you use a higher pressure (like 14 pounds) to fill the bottles,
    then there is less foam during the filling, but it is very tedious
    to depressurize the bottle for capping, without triggering a massive
    degassing (gushing).

 2) But, if you use a lower pressure (like 9 pounds), then bringing the
    beer to atmospheric pressures for capping is no longer a problem.
    However you have beer degassing itself in the keg, and on it's way
    to the bottle during the transfer!

It's a no-win!  The result is flat beer either way.

What am I doing wrong?  I tried to slightly overcarbonate the beer in
the keg for a few days before bottling so that small CO2 losses wouldn't
be a problem.  Should I have overcarbonated it a lot?  If I do that,
won't it make the degassing problems worse as explained above?

Should I instead bottle at an even higher pressure, and spend 10 minutes
on each bottle, very carefully depressurizing it for capping.  (As if
bottling isn't a pain-in-the-a** enough already!)  What pressure should
I use?  Much higher than 14#, and it becomes harder to hold the filler
in the bottle during filling.  Or, should I just let the thing gush all
over the place and cap as quickly as possible?

I don't get it.  What am I doing wrong?

What pressure works best for you?
How overcarbonated do you make the beer before bottling?
Any tips you can convey would be much appreciated.

Thanks for your help!
 -Alan in Fremont


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:45:52 -0700
From: Shane Cook <scook at civil.ubc.ca>
Subject: Maudite & La Fin du monde

Hello All

I recently had the oportunity to sample a great
variety of craft brews at the Vancouver
Brewmasters Festival.  Two brews that really
caught my tounge were Maudite and La Fin du
monde.  Both are brewed by Unibroue in Quebec.

To get to the point I would love to try to
replicate these two brews.  Maudite is a 8% alc.
amber ale and La fin du monde is a 9% alc. blonde
trappist ale. I have never tried to brew anything
like either of these and would welcome any
suggestions. My only request is that you keep the
help relatively simple, I have only done a few all
grain batches and have never tried any complex
mash scheduals, but I will give anything a try if
neccessary.

Also as suggested recently I was going to contact
the brewery for suggestions but I thought I would
a few questions here first, so that I could ask
better informed questions of the brewer.
1) According to the Unibroue web page their beers
are refermented in the bottle, what does that
mean?
2) I have never tried a Trappist style ale before,
and althought it is probably in the archives of
HBD, what is the generally accepted style
description and what are other commercially
available samples to check out before I try to
brew one?
3) Anyone else tried these beers and what did you
think?

Thanks in advance,
Shane Cook
- --
_______________________
UBC, Civil Engineering
2324 Main Mall
Vancouver, B.C.
V6T 1Z4
Ph: 822-9842
Fax: 822-6901




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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:03:00 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: HBD brew club

The HBD is a great resource for beer and brewing knowledge, but because
it exists in digital form we rarely get the chance to actually meet each
other. This is a great thing when it happens, though. A couple of weeks
ago Phil Wilcox posted that he was taking a trip down the east coast on
his way to Tampa, and asked for suggestions as to brew pubs to visit
along the way. I wrote back to him, and he and his wife ended up
stopping here in Gainesville. We got a chance to swap homebrews and
spend a couple of hours talking beer at the Market Street Pub. Phil
makes some great labels, and some tasty Eisbock, uh.. no.... I mean I
put his beer in the ice box.... yeah that's it.

It was interesting to talk about some of the members of his brew club
that you all know at least by name - Spencer Thomas, Jeff Renner, Dan
McConnell, and also about other mutual friends from the HBD, most of
which neither one of us have ever met. But it still feels like we know
each other. The HBD is really a great group, sort of a cyber homebrew
club. It's just too bad we don't get to meet each other and share our
beer and bs more often. well, I guess we share the bs pretty often. The
beer gives us a good common ground and place to start in getting to know
each other. It's pretty amazing what nice people make homebrew.

I had the opportunity to meet some of you last year at the GABF in
Denver. It was really one of the highlights of a great trip. I'm
planning on going again, maybe we can all meet at the Falling Rock again
this year. I'd also encourage any of you planning on making trips to
post about it as Phil did, it's a great way to meet each other, put
faces with the names we come to know from this digest, not to mention a
chance to maybe try some really great beers.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl



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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:27:41 -0700
From: David Monday <dmonday at thegrid.net>
Subject: Soda Kegs: Summary

Feedback from my original post indicates that a good price for soda kegs
*used* is
~ $10-13.  The best price I found was $4.50 per keg........but I would
have to buy all
2,300 in the warehouse to get such a deal (as is condition).

Thanks for the feedback!

Dave in N. Cal.



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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:57:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: When is a pint a pint?

I wrote:

> > One thing I really hope will catch on here in the States, is every
> > glass over there has a line to mark the volume you are buying, ...

Doug Moyers responds:

> Regardless of what they call the serving size, you will still pay that
> premium.

and Jeremy Bergsman adds:

>He commented that the "pints" they were being served at the time were
>really a couple ounces short.  A few months later I noticed that their
>menu no longer says "pint" but "large."  

I guess I wasn't clear about my peeve.  Whether a bar calls a serving
"a pint" or "a large" or "a beer" isn't really important.  That the
consumer knows how much volume they are buying for their money is
important.  If one pubs wants to charge me $3.50 for 13 oz. and
another will charge me $4.00 for 17 oz., fine; just let me know how
much I'm getting so I can at least make an informed choice.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I was struck in Europe by the fact
that every volume is noted, whether they are selling orange juice or
single malt Scotch.  Here in the States, the exact opposite is
practiced; (many) sellers try to confuse and take advantage of the
consumer by hiding how much is being sold/bought.  And the American
consumer has gotten used to this practice.  I find it fairly ironic
that in the birthplace of consumers rights, the sellers are calling
the shots in this case.

If you bought a bottle of beer, and it didn't say 12 fl. oz. on the
label, wouldn't you think that odd?  Wouldn't you be suspicious?

SM


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:54:16 EDT
From: TPuskar at aol.com
Subject: Lemon zest

I know I read the description of lemon zest somewhere but can't seem to find
it.  Could someone please clarify, is the zest the thin yellow part of the
peel or the white pulpy stuff under (and not including) the yellow part of the
peel.

I want to dump some into the secondary of my Sam Adam's Summer Ale clone and
was planning to use the pulpy stuff.  A brewing friend said I was wasting the
zest which is really the yellow part.

There's a couple of six packs riding on this so I really need some
clarification.

Thanks to all.

Tom Puskar


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:58:45 -0400
From: fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu
Subject: Thermal mass

Greetings folks,

 In HBD #2770, Jay Spies asked whether it is better to 
keep a fridge empty or full.

 I've wanted to comment on this subject in the past, but I 
realize that my posts deal with a peripheral topic to this 
forum, and I try to minimize the bandwidth I use.

  In response to Jay's question, the answer depends upon 
what is in the fridge. Most unpackaged fresh food items, 
and any liquid in an unsealed container, are dehydrated 
when placed in contact with the dry air present in most 
fridges at normal temperatures. This pesents a heat load 
that must be overcome by the refrigeration system.

 Jay's father's claim that a nearly empty fridge works 
better and more efficiently is true for fresh food until you 
decide not to fill one fridge, and partially fill multiple fridges 
instead.

 This situation changes for sealed containers. A fridge 
stuffed full of carboys and cornies has a large thermal 
mass. This acts like a "flywheel" to help even out any 
temperature fluctuations in the cabinet. The large mass 
takes time to cool, but once down to temperature, costs no 
more to run than an empty fridge. It will take longer to cool 
the large load to a lowered setpoint, such as for lagering, 
but the thermal mass returns some refrigerating effect 
when you raise the setpoint back up to serving 
temperature.

 Since many of us use external temperature controllers, 
and run our fridges at higher than normal temperatures, 
much of the dehydration I mentioned above doesn't occur. 
This is why moisture buildup is a common problem in 
these fridges. 

 It is a good idea, in any case, to keep your fridge's 
cabinet dry and any containers sealed. I have mentioned 
this before, but I use Damp-Rid to keep my chest freezer 
dry and didn't have any moisture probems even when 
fermenting 10 gallons of pilsener with airlocks venting 
inside.
Hope this helps!

Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:55:01 -0400
From: "Paul E. Lyon" <lyon at osb1.wff.nasa.gov>
Subject: Wyeast 3068

    I've noticed the posts about shelf life of Weizens brewed with 3068, and
I appreciate the warning.  I just brewed a Weizen (og 1.046) and pitched
into my 6.5 gal glass primary.  My starter was at high kaurazen when I
pitched, so my lag time was only a couple of hours.  The day after pitching,
the yeast head in the primary had reached the top of the fermenter, and
pushed its way through the airlock.  I have since attached a blow off hose,
but man, I have never seen such active fermentation.  Is this strain known
for explosive starts?

Thanks,

 P.E.L.






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---