---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Mash - the Old Way.. (Badger Roullett)
  base malt preferences (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  Announcement: Dixie Cup '98 (Steve Moore)
  Light source for microscope ("George De Piro")
  Re: Oatmeal Stout (Doug)
  Film On Your Porter ("J. Kish")
  Packing Wild Hops ("J. Kish")
  re: Packaging wild hops (Pvrozanski)
  Wild hops and storage ("NFGS")
  Re:Subject: Water chemistry and heading properties (dbgrowler)
  Re: yeast viability/reuse (Mark T A Nesdoly)
  Yeast and Esters (Robert Arguello)
  Yeast and light; magnetic stirrers ("Mercer, David")
  Fall = Apples = Cider // Sticke (Andrew Ager)
  RE: pitching rates (Peter.Perez)
  Aging in carboys/repitch from big beer/high CO2 starters (George_De_Piro)
  Re. Keg is Rusting. (John Palmer)
  Film on your beer... (Some Guy)
  San Anontio Tx ("NFGS")
  Sunlight and beer wort (Steve Mansfield)
  flow rate of wort vs. water (John_E_Schnupp)
  The most disgusting brew story ever. (Jon bovard)
  re: RIMS on the horizon ("Ludwig's")
  Alaskan Amber Beer (AKGOURMET)
  Malt Minerals (AJ)


Let a good beer be the exclamation point at the end of your day as
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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:22:29 -0700
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: Mash - the Old Way..

Greeting Beer Brains...

here are some questions for you All Grainers..

In a reprint of an old book for housewives (yes, its true. Women did MOST of
the brewing in period) that contains a section brewing there is a
description of brew day that i would like to throw past you....

Here is a typical brewing day...  (only the first runnings are mentioned.
small beer omitted)
 - grind your grain, and set to boil your mash water
 - put half of your grain in your mash vessal
 - pour bit by bit "with scoops or pails" the boiling liquor over the malt,
and stir
 - add rest of malt
 - let stand for an hour or more
 - "let the first liquor run gently from the malt"
 - put into boiling vessel, and add hops
 - boil for an hour or more
 - drain thru a seive to catch hops
 - cool overnight
 - pitch Ale Barm (yeast essentially)

My question, now that i have actually done one all grain batch, and
understand the science a bit more is this...

What is happening to the malt when you add boiling water like this?  every
thing i read is about Rests that start low, and go high.  i don't think they
cover the mash tun, so i am sure i cools.. so we get a reverse tempeture
gradient from what I have read about..  what sort of enzyme
activity,conversion, whatsi-hozits is going when it is done this way?  i
need to understand the science of this so i can attempt to reproduce this in
a small scale experiment..

many many thanks in advance

*********************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger

Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html

In the SCA: 
Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn



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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 98 19:42:12 MST
From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Subject: base malt preferences

Both of my favorite base malts (Hugh Baird 2-row - ales; DeWolf Cosyns Pils
 - lagers) have recently come under scrutiny regarding their quality.
Combined with the fact that both of these malts are getting more expensive
with every sack, I'm considering a change (only *considering* - I'll switch
if I can be convinced there's something better). If HBD readers will e-mail
me with their favorite base malts (lager and ale), I'll post the results.


Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Hamilton, Montana




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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:33:49 -0500
From: Steve Moore <swm at pdq.net>
Subject: Announcement: Dixie Cup '98

Guest Speakers for the 15th Annual Dixie Cup Homebrew Competition
Announced

Speakers include Fritz Maytag of Anchor Brewing Company along with
other notable beer and homebrew community luminaries

HOUSTON, August 24, 1998 - The Foam Rangers, Houston's original
homebrew club, announced today the guest speakers for their 15th
annual Dixie Cup Homebrew competition to be held in Houston on October
23rd and 24th.  The speakers for this year's event are: Fritz Maytag
of Anchor Brewing Company in San Francisco, California; Stephen
Mallery, publisher of Brewing Techniques magazine; and Brock Wagner,
co-founder of Houston's own Saint Arnold Brewing Company.  And,
continuing his series of unusual beer and food tastings, famed beer
writer Fred Eckhardt will treat the Dixie Cup attendees to beers of
the world matched with local dishes from those countries in a tasting
entitled "Where in the world is Fred Eckhardt?" 

"We are very excited about this year's line up of guest speakers and
Fred's tasting," said Steve Capo, Grand Wazoo (president) of the Foam
Rangers.  "The Dixie Cup is the premiere homebrew competition in the
country and we strive to provide the best judging, homebrew
information, and fun we can.  Anchor Brewing, Brewing Techniques, and
Saint Arnold Brewing have long been supporters of the homebrewing
community and the Dixie Cup and we are delighted to have them all
represented at this year's competition.  And, to show our appreciation
to Mr. Eckhardt and the many years of support he has shown us, we have
developed a theme for this year's Dixie Cup entitled 'The Grateful
Fred.'"

The Dixie Cup is one of the largest club-sponsored homebrew
competitions in the world as well as one of the final qualifying
events for the inaugural Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing.  The
competition and related events will take place on October 23rd and
24th in Houston and are sponsored by the Foam Rangers, DeFalco's Home
Wine and Beer Supplies of Houston, and Saint Arnold Brewing.  For more
information, please refer to the award-winning Foam Rangers home page
 - The Foam Page - at www.foamrangers.com or call DeFalco's at (713)
523-8145.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 31 Aug 98 22:46:48 PDT
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Light source for microscope

Hi all,

I have an old (but very nice) Leitz microscope.  It's main drawback is 
the
lack of an electric light source.  I am tired of the source I rigged up
because it is not bright enough to allow the use of the 100X
objective lens.

The sources commercially available through scientific catalogues are 
stupidly
expensive, and it is not always practical to work using the sun as a 
light
source.  Does anybody have any ideas?

I am currently using a 75 watt soft white bulb held about 4 inches from 
the
bottom of the stage.  I can't get the bulb much closer than that because
of the polarizing filter and such.  This current arrangement also has the
disadvantage of being quite hot and blinding when not looking through the
scope.

Thanks in advance, private e-mail is fine to either this address or
mailto:George_De_Piro at Berlex.com

Have fun!

George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:12:38 -0700
From: Doug <gazer at aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Oatmeal Stout

Charles Beaver wrote:

>>I am contemplating making an oatmeal stout in the next few weeks. As >>a
veteran single step infusion masher I and wondering if it is a >>*mandatory*
that I include a protein rest.

In a word, no.

The main purpose of a protein rest is to break down large molecular weight
proteins that may lead to haze.  As oatmeal stout is a very dark beer, even
if haze is present, it shouldn't  be visible. The only likely affect you
would see in your beer is reduced mouthfeel and head retention, neither of
which I think most people would apprieciate in a stout.   Protein rests have
been debated here ad infinitum, and many question their utility in _any_ beer.  

Doug Price
Tigard, OR


gazer at aracnet.com

***********************************************
        "...until I learned that one step forward
	 will take you further on,
	 than a thousand back 
             or a million that ain't your own."

			-- C. Walker
***********************************************



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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:01:45 -0700
From: "J. Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Film On Your Porter

To: Peter Perez
     The thin film on your porter is a contaminant, the
dreaded Acetic Acid Bacteria,"Acetobacter".  It's the same
stuff that turns wine into wine vinegar.  Your beer will
slowly get sour.  If you ever wanted to make Kosher Dill
Pickles, you need that bacteria to get it to sour.
  I don't know if pasteurizing would kill the bacteria.
You could try racking the porter through your wort chiller
but with very hot water instead of cold water.
 You will have to go through a super-sanitizing process on
all of your equipment.
     Joe Kish


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:10:35 -0700
From: "J. Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Packing Wild Hops

To: Bill Graham
     You wondered about packaging wild hops.  Well, do it
the same as 'tame' hops.  Pick the hops, spread them out
on a big piece of cardboard out of direct sunlight, and
let them dry.  Then, shove them into zip-lock pint size
bags and zip them up.  Pack as much as you can into the
bags by pushing down with your fist. You can easily get
more than 1.5 ounces into eachpint size bag.  Label them,
and put them into your freezer.
    Joe Kish


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:22:56 -0500
From: Pvrozanski at ra.rockwell.com
Subject: re: Packaging wild hops

>Fellow hop-heads -
>        I know of an area near where I live that has many wild hops
>growing, and it looks like they need to be harvested. I used some last
>year and was reasonably happy with the bittering/taste/aroma. Since little
>of my brewing is judged by professionals, I have plans to brew many
>batches of beer with these hops.
 >       The problem is how to store them so they can last up to a year.
>The best solution, in a general sense, would be to harvest, and then
>compress the hops into "chunks" of maybe 1-3 oz's, and seal them in
>freezer bags.
>        So, how can I compress these hops? And, what is the best way to
>seal them up? Any of you folks who grow your own have any suggestions? I
>can't imagine anyone saying yes, but if you contribute some good ideas
>and would like an ounce or two of some "stray", let me know.
>
>Bill
>
>"...the only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden
>violence."  -  Butros Butros-Ghali

After picking your wild hops you need to dry (or dehydrate) them. If you
plan on storing them you must do this. Storing hops without removing as
much as possible moisture is an invitation for mold to form. Since all hop
additions to recipes refer to dry hops, drying also gives you a frame of
reference for measuring your homegrown hops.

The next step is to package them. Use ziplock bags or better yet, oxygen
barrier bags. After measuring your hops, press the bag to remove as much of
 the air in the bag. Seal the bag then. Personally, I use a "Food Saver"
unit to vacuum seal the hops.

Store the bags in the freezer.

Hope this helps.

Phil




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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:40:39 -0700
From: "NFGS" <fjrusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: Wild hops and storage

Bill Graham wrote:

>>I know of an area near where I live that has many wild hops
growing, and it looks like they need to be harvested. .....So, how can I
compress these hops? And, what is the best way to seal them up? <<

   I remember seeing a posting not to long ago about compressing hops.  I
have not tried it yet but plan to.  It was very simple.  I believe a 1, or 1
1/2" piece of plastic pipe was used.  The hops were feed in and using
anything you like pounded for compression.  As for storage I would recommend
in vacuum sealing bags.  There are all kinds of these devices on the market
and inexpensive as well.  You can even find one at the iQVC web site.
(www.iqvc.com).

By the way have you identified the variety of hops growing?

Frank
fjrusso at coastalnet.com




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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:04:21 -0400
From: dbgrowler at juno.com
Subject: Re:Subject: Water chemistry and heading properties

Nathan writes:

"Question: Does anybody know of the influence of water chemistry on
heading
properties?  The only recent change in my brewing has been the water I
use."

Short answer: Yup. Can't cite chapter and verse, (I'm at work, how sad)
but pH definitely affects the foam quality of beer. I believe there is a
chart or suchlike in "Analysis of Brewing Techniques" showing the
relationship between finished beer pH and foam stand. Using acids or
calcium salts to treat your water & bring your mash pH into the low 5's
should fix the foam problem. How you adjust pH is going to be governed by
your water composition, and how concerned you are about matching a
specific "classic" mineral profile. A good kettle break within ~the first
30 minutes is a decent indicator that you're on track, tho'.

Mike Bardallis
Finally ending the cursed summer homebrew drought in
Allen Park, MI

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca
From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290 at mail.usask.ca>
Subject: Re: yeast viability/reuse

Charley Burns asked a couple of digests ago about yeast viability over time.
Here's a recent experience:

I just used some wyeast 2278 czech pils that had been in my fridge from Dec.
10 of last year up until last week.  About 9 months total.  No problems at all.

I reuse my wyeast packs 3 times to bring the cost/batch down.  This is what
I do:  I'll smack the pack and make a starter.  I feed it with 2 one pint
starters to bring the total starter volume up to about 750 ml or so.  I'll
pitch almost the entire starter into the wort, then I'll fill up the starter
with about 12 oz (one beer bottle's worth) of fresh wort from the batch I
made.  I let that ferment fully, then I bottle and cap it and stick it in
the fridge until I want to brew with it again.  I do this three times.  I
could probably stretch 4 or 5 uses out of my yeast, but I haven't had
problems this way, and I don't want to push my luck.  

The starter I made with that 2278 started to go in a few hours when I
revived it (which is about right).  I pitched Sunday night at 8 pm and the
carboy had a nice layer of fine white bubbles Monday morning at 7 am.  And
it is in a 40F chest freezer too.

- -- Mark



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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:20:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac at jps.net>
Subject: Yeast and Esters

Beerlings,

Much has recently been written about yeast and appropriate pitching rates,
stir plates and viability. My question is about the esters they produce...
or rather the mechanics of producing esters.

I know that some yeasts produce more profound amounts of esters than others.
I know that everything else being equal, a given yeast will produce more
esters during high fermentation temperatures than at low temps. What I don't
know is *how* the esters are formed. What is the chemistry? Why do some
yeasts produce esters and others not so much. It amazes me that single
celled organisms can differ so widely in such a profound manner. I
understand that yeast cells convert sugar to alcohol and produce CO2. Are
the esters part of the alchohol(s)? Carried with the CO2? Inquiring minds
want to know.

 
- -------------------------"Dances With Worts"---------------------
Robert Arguello
robertac at jps.net
Corny Kegs - http:/www.jps.net/robertac/keg.htm
- -----------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:29:03 -0700
From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org>
Subject: Yeast and light; magnetic stirrers

Mike asked:

I am a beginner brewer, and have been following the yeast thread with 
interest.  One more question - there has been a lot posted about 
oxygenation, yeast growth etc, but what about light ?  Does light affect
yeast 
growth, and should brewing be done in the dark, or is it OK to have a 
glass fermentation vessel standing in sunlight?  I haven't seen anything
on 
this in the texts I have read.

Every now and then I see advice about putting a starter in a cool dark
place, like under the sink or in a closet, but as far as I know there is
no biological reason for doing that. Yeast couldn't care less about
light, as long as the temperature of the starter isn't adversely
affected. Direct sunlight could conceivably make the starter too warm,
but normal lighting will have no effect. I keep my starters on a well
lit shelf in my house. I like to stare at them and watch the little
bubbles magically appear and float to the top (can't do that in the
dark.) I also use a variable speed magnetic stirrer and ooh and aah with
delight when I rev the sucker up and watch the whirlpool send my airlock
into a vodka-spitting frenzy. My wife thinks I'm mildly retarded.

On the stirring thread, using the stirrer along with oxygen has made a
remarkable difference in the size and quality of my slurries. I build
1.5 liter starters and typically feed them twice at that volume. Maybe
it's my imagination, but using O2 and the stirrer produces nearly twice
the yield of slurry as I used to get without them, and maybe 50% more
than just using O2 without the stir plate.

Dave in Seattle


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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:15:21 -0500
From: Andrew Ager <andrew-ager at nwu.edu>
Subject: Fall = Apples = Cider // Sticke

Hi all,

In about a month I'll be heading up to Michigan for a weekend, and am
thinking it's high time to do a cider.  Now, seeing as how I'll be getting
the juice from a mill, should I just buy a couple jugs, take them home, and
transfer into a carboy?  My understanding is that the wild yeasts will go
to work on the stuff.

So how long does that fermentation usually take?  When I bottle, is the
priming amount the same as for an average 5-gallon batch of beer?  How much
krauesen gets produced?

I did a cursory archive search, but didn't seem to pick any of the right
articles...

Basically, any good tips on basic cidermaking would be appreciated.
- ---
For my Holiday/Winter beer this year, I've pretty much settled on a Sticke
(hihger-grav. Alt).  Nitpicky style question here -- are aroma hops
"allowed"?   Or do the brewers play around more with these puppies?

Thanks,

Andy Ager 		Beer Geek, Beer Judge
Chicago, IL		Homebrewer Ordinaire
- --Chicago Beer Society -- Silver Medal Homebrew Club of the Year, 1998 --





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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:56:44 -0400
From: Peter.Perez at smed.com
Subject: RE: pitching rates

Most posts here mention to step up your starter a few times before
pitching.  I think this almost unanimously agreed upon as being beneficial.
The one detail I don't see addressed is whether everyone is then decanting
off the wort from these big starters and pitching just the slurry, or is
everyone just pitching the whole thing?  I am sure that there are people
doing both.  Would someone care to discuss the pros and cons of each
alternative?  It seems that pitching just the slurry would mean that you
have discarded some of the yeast still in suspension, and this would be the
most attenuative yeast, would it not?  But if you pitch the whole starter,
you are introducing a fair amount of foreign/off-style wort.  And I have
heard that wort from starters tastes really bad, due to the inherent
characteristics of very aerated wort used to attempt to keep yeast in
growth phase.  Am I off track here or what?

Thanks,

Pete




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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:36:21 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: Aging in carboys/repitch from big beer/high CO2 starters

     Hi all,
     
     John C. writes:
     
     "His [my] first suggestion for fixing my problem was increasing the 
     volume of my yeast starter.  Quite simply, IT WORKS!!!!!!"
     
     Another testimonial from a happy customer!  I don't know if I should 
     feel like a proud missionary or one of those low-life geeks on an 
     infomercial.  I am happy to have helped solve a problem, though.
     
     John goes on to ask about the pros and/or cons of aging beer in 
     carboys instead of in bottles or kegs.  The pro to lagering beer in a 
     carboy is that you can see it.  If you are waiting for it to drop 
     clear you can easily monitor the beer without tapping a keg (and 
     potentially drinking the whole thing before it is "done").
     
     The cons of aging in a carboy are:
     
     1.  It is tougher to sample the beer asceptically.
     
     2.  Air.  I do not use an airlock when lagering in a carboy.  Airlocks 
     allow a relatively free exchange of gas.  Changes in temperature 
     and/or atmospheric pressure will cause gas to enter or leave the 
     carboy through the airlock.  Oxygen is horrific at this stage.  
     Instead of an airlock I cover the mouth of the carboy with flamed 
     foil, rubber band it down, and then wrap "Parafilm" around it just to 
     be sure. ("Parafilm" is a soft, waxy plastic film that can be used 
     like plastic wrap.  The difference is that it sticks to itself 
     exceptionally well.  Parafilm is so tough and sticky that it can be 
     used as a barometer by sealing a flask with it and observing if it 
     bellows out or in as the atmospheric pressure changes.)
     
     3.  The beer is not ready to drink at the end of lagering.  You will 
     need to force carbonate or Kraeusen the beer.  Simply priming and 
     bottling beer that has lagered at cold temperatures for a long time 
     can yield very slow carbonation (too little active yeast).
     
     I usually allow the beer to drop clear in a carboy, then keg and 
     carbonate it and allow it to mature.
     ----------------------------------------
     There has been a little bit of talk going on (with Al K. and Tim) 
     about whether or not it is OK to repitch yeast from a high gravity 
     fermentation.  Al pointed to an old HBD post that tells how they do 
     not repitch the yeast from Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot.
     
     Brewery Ommegang, in Cooperstown, NY, does repitch their yeast.  The 
     two beers they currently offer are both relatively high-gravity, and 
     are fermented at high temperature (25C/78F).  They currently use only 
     one yeast strain.
     
     So now that we have two data points I'll go out on a limb and say that 
     the ability to repitch yeast after a high-gravity ferment is strain 
     dependent.  "Strain dependency" is always a pretty safe limb to go out 
     on.
     ----------------------------------------
     Matthew asks if some yeast produce more CO2 than others.  He notes 
     that his 1338 starter is much more carbonated than others he has made.
     
     The amount of CO2 produced by yeast is dependent on how much food they 
     ferment.  A super-attenuating strain (like S. diastaticus) will 
     ferment more material in a given wort than a brewing strain, and thus 
     produce more total CO2.  Most brewing yeasts attenuate in the same 
     range, though, so CO2 production should not be dramatically strain 
     dependent.
     
     I have had starters (that weren't agitated constantly) become "super 
     saturated" with CO2.  Upon shaking the flask the stopper and airlock 
     went flying as a miniature Vesuvius erupted in my kitchen.  Not fun.
     
     I don't know for sure why this happens.  It could be that the 
     trub-free starter wort does not provide enough nucleation sites for 
     the CO2 so it stays in solution.  Constant agitation avoids this 
     problem.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George de Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:58:20 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re. Keg is Rusting.

Andrew says:
 As I was prepping for my 4th batch yesterday
morning, I looked into my HLT and with horror saw that the weld around
my
coupling was rust brown.  Not only that, there are several "specks" of
rust
appearing on the keg walls.
Does anyone know what is happening to my keg?  Any suggestions on how to

deal with this?

Yep, it's rust.  Very simple solution.  Use a Scotchbrite scrubby (those
green non-metallic ones) and some Cleanser and scour the rust off.
Rinse it clean and let it dry.  Let it stay dry for two weeks to
re-passivate itself.  You should have no problems after that.  The
protective oxides were comprimised during the welding process and the
resultant blue oxides need to be cleaned off so the protective oxides
can reform.
Dont use a chlorinated cleanser like Comet or Ajax, use a stainless
steel cookware cleanser like Revereware, Kleen King or Bar Keepers
Friend.  These are subject to local availability in your grocery stores.

John Palmer
metallurgist
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/



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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:38:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Film on your beer...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager....

Pete Perez asks about the film on his fermenting beer:

Without seeing, smelling or tasting the subject beer, no-one can really
give you more than conjecture. Since the beer smells and tastes fine, it
is unlikely that you have an infection to worry about - particularly not
acetobacter which, by producing acetic acid, quickly produces a very
noticeable vinegar odor (at least in my experience) and pronounced flavor.
(If I'm not mistaken, there are other bacterias that film as well.  Your
post gives insufficient data for any reasonable diagnosis.)

Many things can result in a film on the beer as the ferment quiets: 

 o What strain of yeast are you using? 
   Being an ale (assumption on my part, 
   but you are fermenting at 72'F...), 
   the yeast is likely a top cropper. 
   Could the flocculating yeast be your 
   film? 

 o What were some of the adjuncts used? 
   Some grains and adjuncts contribute 
   to a film on the beer. Don't know if
   it's due to lipids or what, but I've 
   seen this - particularly with 
   adjuncts such as cocoa powder. 

 o Describe your mash (if all-grain) 
   procedures and your boil. Did you get 
   the hot and cold breaks you expected? 

Anyway, don't cave in to sheer supposition and dump your beer due to some 
assumed infection. Very rarely have I found previously unencountered 
fermenter phenomena to be due to beer-spoiling contaminants. Ferment out, 
bottle/keg, condition and taste. If it tastes ok, there is nothing wrong 
with your beer...

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
            "Never dump a brew without a fair trial..."


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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:46:33 -0700
From: "NFGS" <fjrusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: San Anontio Tx

I am going to be traveling a good deal this fall and want to look for some
good brew pubs to visit any recommendations?

Hampton, NH
Palm Springs, Ca
San Antonio, Tx
Atlanta, Ga
Huntsville, Al



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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Mansfield <steve at nw.verio.net>
Subject: Sunlight and beer wort

> From: "Mike Butterfield" <XPBRMB at sugar.org.za>
> 
> I am a beginner brewer, and have been following the yeast thread with 
> interest.  One more question - there has been a lot posted about 
> oxygenation, yeast growth etc, but what about light ?  Does light affect yeast
> growth, and should brewing be done in the dark, or is it OK to have a 
> glass fermentation vessel standing in sunlight?  I havent seen anything on 
> this in the texts I have read.

My understanding is not that it will affect the yeast so much, but that
there are other chlorophyll-based bits in the wort, which can react to
sunlight and produce off-flavors.  I have always kept my carboys covered
with either a blanket or a cardboard box to keep light away.

- -- 
Steve Mansfield				 steve at nw.verio.net
Verio NorthWest Network Engineer         425-649-7467



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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:53:55 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: flow rate of wort vs. water

I've done my first all grain batch earlier this summer
(June) and am getting ready for the fall season.  One
problem I had was controlling the run-off from the mash
tun.  The beer turned out ok and learned quite a bit.
I'm now working on refining my method(s).  One thing I
want to do is make it a little easier to get the proper
run-off speed.  To this end I've tried various sized
tubing and various materials.  It's no surprise to me
that the smaller tubing flowed slower.  I did my tests
using water.  I filled my mash tun (10 gallon Igloo)
with +3 gallons of water and timed how long it took to
fill a 1 gallon jug which was sitting in my brewpot.

My question:  I know that wort is *thicker* than water
and will have a different flow rate.  Is there an easy
correlation between water and wort?  I know the tubing
material will also play into this but I'm looking for
general guidelines.  If it took water 4 min/gallon, what
will be the flow for wort?  Most of my brews are in the
1.050-1.060 (FAG) range.

I'm trying to set up my system so that I can use
*proper* sized tubing to control the run-off.  This way
I can open the valve fully without too much worry.  I
can still fine tune the flow with the valve but trying
to get a low flow from a 1/2" ball valve is not the
easiest thing to do (at least for me).  I'm shooting
to collect 6-7 gallons in the boil pot in 45-60 min.

Here is some data from the tests I did this
morning (9/1) when I got home from work:

3/8" OD copper - 1:01 min/gal
1/4" OD copper - 3:46 min/gal
1/4" OD (1/8" ID) Tygon rated for 165degF - 8:07 min/gal

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:18:59 +1000
From: Jon bovard <jonbovard at geocities.com>
Subject: The most disgusting brew story ever.

Well if finally happened. No one will ever drink my beer again...

Last night I was putting my new bag of pale malt through my Valley mill
and I heard a lot of loud clunks..this was hard malt though..I looked at
the crushed grain and it looked OK. I shrugged and kept grinding. Left
it in container over night and went to mash in just then. Heated the
water in mash tun and added grain. Outta the corner of my eyes i
noticed something dark floating on the mash surface but when i looked
and it was gone again. Any ideas yet what it was???

As i stirred the mash something darted over the grain bed again, I
stopped and fished it out. NOW ive stumbled upon
some preety sick things on the NET but none as foul as a MILL crushed
coackroach floating in my Mash!!

Apologies to those who know me and have to drink my beers.

Jon
Brisbane Australia

Oh by the way, I kept brewing with that same mash.


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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 21:47:21 -0400
From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net>
Subject: re: RIMS on the horizon

Doug,
I've designed and built a system similar to what you're describing
though I don't consider it a RIMS. For lack of a better term, I call it
a Soft Heat Mash System (SHMS). I started working on it last December
and completed the system about a month ago. I haven't mashed with it
yet, but have done some temperature boosts with water only, with very
good results. Here's some particulars:
1. 5 gal Gott as a Mash Tun with 8 ft of 1/2 inch copper tube heat coil
and a mash mixer (I have twice mashed with the mash mixer, BTW).
2. Hot liquor tank supplies water directly to pump and on to the mash
tun heat coil. No HLT coil required nor desired.
3. Starting with 5 gal of HLT water at almost boiling, boosted 3 gal of
water in Gott from 132 deg F to 159 deg F in 3 minutes. 
4. Boosted from 159 deg F to 171 deg F in 2 minutes.
5. For what it's worth, boosted from 171 deg to 183 deg in 4 min.
6. During temperature boosts, temp overshoots were minimal with pump
ON/OFF commands. I think this system will lend itself well to simple
thermostat control. No PID control required.

Needless to say, I'm quite impressed with the performance of this system
so far and plan a real mash, probably this weekend. I'm also working on
a web site that will show some of the details. A great deal of the
complexity of this system is for convenience and flexibility (9 ball
valves and 6 QDs) whereas the basic concept is simple. Liberal use of
plumbing and ball valves allows the system to be reconfigured to recirc
the sweet liquor to clarify prior to lautering, back flush for cleaning
and, potentially, suction lautering (I worked on a dairy farm for quite
a few of my younger years). Good luck and feel free to e-mail me
directly if you have any questions about my system or building yours. 

Dave Ludwig
Flat Iron Brewery
SO Md


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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:51:23 EDT
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: Alaskan Amber Beer

The Alaskan Brewing Company has a web page at www.alaskanbeer.com which has a
few hints to the recipe for Alaskan Amber.  

Sorry, but we're all sworn to secrecy here.

Bill Wright
Juneau, AK
4 miles north of the brewery


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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:23:44 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Malt Minerals

The question as to whether brewing water synthesized from distilled (or
otherwize deionized) water or RO water by the addition of carbonates,
sulfates and chlorides of sodium, potassium and magnesium needs to be
augmented with sources of trace elements comes up from time to time and
has done so again recently. In my opinion this is not necessary because
of the trace mineral content of malt. To quote BHS&Y  "Malt contains all
the mineral substances needed to support yeast growth." (VI p91). In
previous private correspondence with Ken Schwartz I had noted that a
Pils brewed with a well water/RO water blend  with a zinc content of
about 0.007 mg/L had a zinc ion content of 0.035 mg/L i.e 5 times that
of the water. I had promised Ken I'd investigate further but never did.
Now Nathan Kanous is asking the same question.

Ken, Nathan, anyone who is interested, here's a little more data - still
at the anecdotal level but data nevertheless. I've analyzed DWC Pale Ale
malt (the only thing I've got in the house that hasn't been around for
long enough to pick up a bunch of moisture). A sample of this malt gave
the following:

TKN           15.0 g/kg ---> Crude protein 93.5 g/kg or 9.35%
Zinc           85.4 mg/kg
Copper       20.1 mg/kg
Manganese   5.9 mg/kg
Phosphate  11.1 g/kg (i.e. 1.1%) as PO4-3 --> 3.61 g/kg as P

These  numbers include all of the particular analyte i.e. free ions as
well as organically bound ones (we do violent things to release the
latter for analysis). If we assume about a liter of water per half
kilogram of malt (roughly a quart per pound) the math is easy and we'd
have 43 mg/L total zinc, 10 mg/K total copper and 3 mg/L total Mn in the
beer.  These levels are well above "trace" levels but not all the bound
metals may be available to the yeast. The zinc measurement quoted above
for beer is for the  zinc ion only (i.e. it does not include organically
bound zinc) and is orders of magnitude smaller than the number estimated
from the total zinc content of this malt but be aware that that beer was
not brewed with this malt. It would be interesting to compare the free
and total zinc (and copper) content of a finished beer with that of the
malt it was brewed from and perhaps one day I'll get to do that. For
now, suffice it to say that malt appears to have lots of copper,
manganese and zinc and that at least trace levels of zinc make it
through to the finished beer in free ion form.

For those using RO or DI water who are not convinced by these sketchy
data I suggest the Wyeast nutrient which contains "... zinc and other
trace elements beneficial for rapid, complete fermentation."



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