HOMEBREW Digest #2814 Wed 02 September 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Mash - the Old Way.. (Badger Roullett)
  base malt preferences (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  Announcement: Dixie Cup '98 (Steve Moore)
  Light source for microscope ("George De Piro")
  Re: Oatmeal Stout (Doug)
  Film On Your Porter ("J. Kish")
  Packing Wild Hops ("J. Kish")
  re: Packaging wild hops (Pvrozanski)
  Wild hops and storage ("NFGS")
  Re:Subject: Water chemistry and heading properties (dbgrowler)
  Re: yeast viability/reuse (Mark T A Nesdoly)
  Yeast and Esters (Robert Arguello)
  Yeast and light; magnetic stirrers ("Mercer, David")
  Fall = Apples = Cider // Sticke (Andrew Ager)
  RE: pitching rates (Peter.Perez)
  Aging in carboys/repitch from big beer/high CO2 starters (George_De_Piro)
  Re. Keg is Rusting. (John Palmer)
  Film on your beer... (Some Guy)
  San Anontio Tx ("NFGS")
  Sunlight and beer wort (Steve Mansfield)
  flow rate of wort vs. water (John_E_Schnupp)
  The most disgusting brew story ever. (Jon bovard)
  re: RIMS on the horizon ("Ludwig's")
  Alaskan Amber Beer (AKGOURMET)
  Malt Minerals (AJ)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:22:29 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: Mash - the Old Way.. Greeting Beer Brains... here are some questions for you All Grainers.. In a reprint of an old book for housewives (yes, its true. Women did MOST of the brewing in period) that contains a section brewing there is a description of brew day that i would like to throw past you.... Here is a typical brewing day... (only the first runnings are mentioned. small beer omitted) - grind your grain, and set to boil your mash water - put half of your grain in your mash vessal - pour bit by bit "with scoops or pails" the boiling liquor over the malt, and stir - add rest of malt - let stand for an hour or more - "let the first liquor run gently from the malt" - put into boiling vessel, and add hops - boil for an hour or more - drain thru a seive to catch hops - cool overnight - pitch Ale Barm (yeast essentially) My question, now that i have actually done one all grain batch, and understand the science a bit more is this... What is happening to the malt when you add boiling water like this? every thing i read is about Rests that start low, and go high. i don't think they cover the mash tun, so i am sure i cools.. so we get a reverse tempeture gradient from what I have read about.. what sort of enzyme activity,conversion, whatsi-hozits is going when it is done this way? i need to understand the science of this so i can attempt to reproduce this in a small scale experiment.. many many thanks in advance ********************************************* Brander Roullett aka Badger Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 98 19:42:12 MST From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net> Subject: base malt preferences Both of my favorite base malts (Hugh Baird 2-row - ales; DeWolf Cosyns Pils - lagers) have recently come under scrutiny regarding their quality. Combined with the fact that both of these malts are getting more expensive with every sack, I'm considering a change (only *considering* - I'll switch if I can be convinced there's something better). If HBD readers will e-mail me with their favorite base malts (lager and ale), I'll post the results. Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net> Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Hamilton, Montana Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:33:49 -0500 From: Steve Moore <swm at pdq.net> Subject: Announcement: Dixie Cup '98 Guest Speakers for the 15th Annual Dixie Cup Homebrew Competition Announced Speakers include Fritz Maytag of Anchor Brewing Company along with other notable beer and homebrew community luminaries HOUSTON, August 24, 1998 - The Foam Rangers, Houston's original homebrew club, announced today the guest speakers for their 15th annual Dixie Cup Homebrew competition to be held in Houston on October 23rd and 24th. The speakers for this year's event are: Fritz Maytag of Anchor Brewing Company in San Francisco, California; Stephen Mallery, publisher of Brewing Techniques magazine; and Brock Wagner, co-founder of Houston's own Saint Arnold Brewing Company. And, continuing his series of unusual beer and food tastings, famed beer writer Fred Eckhardt will treat the Dixie Cup attendees to beers of the world matched with local dishes from those countries in a tasting entitled "Where in the world is Fred Eckhardt?" "We are very excited about this year's line up of guest speakers and Fred's tasting," said Steve Capo, Grand Wazoo (president) of the Foam Rangers. "The Dixie Cup is the premiere homebrew competition in the country and we strive to provide the best judging, homebrew information, and fun we can. Anchor Brewing, Brewing Techniques, and Saint Arnold Brewing have long been supporters of the homebrewing community and the Dixie Cup and we are delighted to have them all represented at this year's competition. And, to show our appreciation to Mr. Eckhardt and the many years of support he has shown us, we have developed a theme for this year's Dixie Cup entitled 'The Grateful Fred.'" The Dixie Cup is one of the largest club-sponsored homebrew competitions in the world as well as one of the final qualifying events for the inaugural Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing. The competition and related events will take place on October 23rd and 24th in Houston and are sponsored by the Foam Rangers, DeFalco's Home Wine and Beer Supplies of Houston, and Saint Arnold Brewing. For more information, please refer to the award-winning Foam Rangers home page - The Foam Page - at www.foamrangers.com or call DeFalco's at (713) 523-8145. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 98 22:46:48 PDT From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net> Subject: Light source for microscope Hi all, I have an old (but very nice) Leitz microscope. It's main drawback is the lack of an electric light source. I am tired of the source I rigged up because it is not bright enough to allow the use of the 100X objective lens. The sources commercially available through scientific catalogues are stupidly expensive, and it is not always practical to work using the sun as a light source. Does anybody have any ideas? I am currently using a 75 watt soft white bulb held about 4 inches from the bottom of the stage. I can't get the bulb much closer than that because of the polarizing filter and such. This current arrangement also has the disadvantage of being quite hot and blinding when not looking through the scope. Thanks in advance, private e-mail is fine to either this address or mailto:George_De_Piro at Berlex.com Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:12:38 -0700 From: Doug <gazer at aracnet.com> Subject: Re: Oatmeal Stout Charles Beaver wrote: >>I am contemplating making an oatmeal stout in the next few weeks. As >>a veteran single step infusion masher I and wondering if it is a >>*mandatory* that I include a protein rest. In a word, no. The main purpose of a protein rest is to break down large molecular weight proteins that may lead to haze. As oatmeal stout is a very dark beer, even if haze is present, it shouldn't be visible. The only likely affect you would see in your beer is reduced mouthfeel and head retention, neither of which I think most people would apprieciate in a stout. Protein rests have been debated here ad infinitum, and many question their utility in _any_ beer. Doug Price Tigard, OR gazer at aracnet.com *********************************************** "...until I learned that one step forward will take you further on, than a thousand back or a million that ain't your own." -- C. Walker *********************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:01:45 -0700 From: "J. Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Film On Your Porter To: Peter Perez The thin film on your porter is a contaminant, the dreaded Acetic Acid Bacteria,"Acetobacter". It's the same stuff that turns wine into wine vinegar. Your beer will slowly get sour. If you ever wanted to make Kosher Dill Pickles, you need that bacteria to get it to sour. I don't know if pasteurizing would kill the bacteria. You could try racking the porter through your wort chiller but with very hot water instead of cold water. You will have to go through a super-sanitizing process on all of your equipment. Joe Kish Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:10:35 -0700 From: "J. Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Packing Wild Hops To: Bill Graham You wondered about packaging wild hops. Well, do it the same as 'tame' hops. Pick the hops, spread them out on a big piece of cardboard out of direct sunlight, and let them dry. Then, shove them into zip-lock pint size bags and zip them up. Pack as much as you can into the bags by pushing down with your fist. You can easily get more than 1.5 ounces into eachpint size bag. Label them, and put them into your freezer. Joe Kish Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:22:56 -0500 From: Pvrozanski at ra.rockwell.com Subject: re: Packaging wild hops >Fellow hop-heads - > I know of an area near where I live that has many wild hops >growing, and it looks like they need to be harvested. I used some last >year and was reasonably happy with the bittering/taste/aroma. Since little >of my brewing is judged by professionals, I have plans to brew many >batches of beer with these hops. > The problem is how to store them so they can last up to a year. >The best solution, in a general sense, would be to harvest, and then >compress the hops into "chunks" of maybe 1-3 oz's, and seal them in >freezer bags. > So, how can I compress these hops? And, what is the best way to >seal them up? Any of you folks who grow your own have any suggestions? I >can't imagine anyone saying yes, but if you contribute some good ideas >and would like an ounce or two of some "stray", let me know. > >Bill > >"...the only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden >violence." - Butros Butros-Ghali After picking your wild hops you need to dry (or dehydrate) them. If you plan on storing them you must do this. Storing hops without removing as much as possible moisture is an invitation for mold to form. Since all hop additions to recipes refer to dry hops, drying also gives you a frame of reference for measuring your homegrown hops. The next step is to package them. Use ziplock bags or better yet, oxygen barrier bags. After measuring your hops, press the bag to remove as much of the air in the bag. Seal the bag then. Personally, I use a "Food Saver" unit to vacuum seal the hops. Store the bags in the freezer. Hope this helps. Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:40:39 -0700 From: "NFGS" <fjrusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: Wild hops and storage Bill Graham wrote: >>I know of an area near where I live that has many wild hops growing, and it looks like they need to be harvested. .....So, how can I compress these hops? And, what is the best way to seal them up? << I remember seeing a posting not to long ago about compressing hops. I have not tried it yet but plan to. It was very simple. I believe a 1, or 1 1/2" piece of plastic pipe was used. The hops were feed in and using anything you like pounded for compression. As for storage I would recommend in vacuum sealing bags. There are all kinds of these devices on the market and inexpensive as well. You can even find one at the iQVC web site. (www.iqvc.com). By the way have you identified the variety of hops growing? Frank fjrusso at coastalnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:04:21 -0400 From: dbgrowler at juno.com Subject: Re:Subject: Water chemistry and heading properties Nathan writes: "Question: Does anybody know of the influence of water chemistry on heading properties? The only recent change in my brewing has been the water I use." Short answer: Yup. Can't cite chapter and verse, (I'm at work, how sad) but pH definitely affects the foam quality of beer. I believe there is a chart or suchlike in "Analysis of Brewing Techniques" showing the relationship between finished beer pH and foam stand. Using acids or calcium salts to treat your water & bring your mash pH into the low 5's should fix the foam problem. How you adjust pH is going to be governed by your water composition, and how concerned you are about matching a specific "classic" mineral profile. A good kettle break within ~the first 30 minutes is a decent indicator that you're on track, tho'. Mike Bardallis Finally ending the cursed summer homebrew drought in Allen Park, MI _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290 at mail.usask.ca> Subject: Re: yeast viability/reuse Charley Burns asked a couple of digests ago about yeast viability over time. Here's a recent experience: I just used some wyeast 2278 czech pils that had been in my fridge from Dec. 10 of last year up until last week. About 9 months total. No problems at all. I reuse my wyeast packs 3 times to bring the cost/batch down. This is what I do: I'll smack the pack and make a starter. I feed it with 2 one pint starters to bring the total starter volume up to about 750 ml or so. I'll pitch almost the entire starter into the wort, then I'll fill up the starter with about 12 oz (one beer bottle's worth) of fresh wort from the batch I made. I let that ferment fully, then I bottle and cap it and stick it in the fridge until I want to brew with it again. I do this three times. I could probably stretch 4 or 5 uses out of my yeast, but I haven't had problems this way, and I don't want to push my luck. The starter I made with that 2278 started to go in a few hours when I revived it (which is about right). I pitched Sunday night at 8 pm and the carboy had a nice layer of fine white bubbles Monday morning at 7 am. And it is in a 40F chest freezer too. - -- Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:20:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at jps.net> Subject: Yeast and Esters Beerlings, Much has recently been written about yeast and appropriate pitching rates, stir plates and viability. My question is about the esters they produce... or rather the mechanics of producing esters. I know that some yeasts produce more profound amounts of esters than others. I know that everything else being equal, a given yeast will produce more esters during high fermentation temperatures than at low temps. What I don't know is *how* the esters are formed. What is the chemistry? Why do some yeasts produce esters and others not so much. It amazes me that single celled organisms can differ so widely in such a profound manner. I understand that yeast cells convert sugar to alcohol and produce CO2. Are the esters part of the alchohol(s)? Carried with the CO2? Inquiring minds want to know. - -------------------------"Dances With Worts"--------------------- Robert Arguello robertac at jps.net Corny Kegs - http:/www.jps.net/robertac/keg.htm - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:29:03 -0700 From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org> Subject: Yeast and light; magnetic stirrers Mike asked: I am a beginner brewer, and have been following the yeast thread with interest. One more question - there has been a lot posted about oxygenation, yeast growth etc, but what about light ? Does light affect yeast growth, and should brewing be done in the dark, or is it OK to have a glass fermentation vessel standing in sunlight? I haven't seen anything on this in the texts I have read. Every now and then I see advice about putting a starter in a cool dark place, like under the sink or in a closet, but as far as I know there is no biological reason for doing that. Yeast couldn't care less about light, as long as the temperature of the starter isn't adversely affected. Direct sunlight could conceivably make the starter too warm, but normal lighting will have no effect. I keep my starters on a well lit shelf in my house. I like to stare at them and watch the little bubbles magically appear and float to the top (can't do that in the dark.) I also use a variable speed magnetic stirrer and ooh and aah with delight when I rev the sucker up and watch the whirlpool send my airlock into a vodka-spitting frenzy. My wife thinks I'm mildly retarded. On the stirring thread, using the stirrer along with oxygen has made a remarkable difference in the size and quality of my slurries. I build 1.5 liter starters and typically feed them twice at that volume. Maybe it's my imagination, but using O2 and the stirrer produces nearly twice the yield of slurry as I used to get without them, and maybe 50% more than just using O2 without the stir plate. Dave in Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:15:21 -0500 From: Andrew Ager <andrew-ager at nwu.edu> Subject: Fall = Apples = Cider // Sticke Hi all, In about a month I'll be heading up to Michigan for a weekend, and am thinking it's high time to do a cider. Now, seeing as how I'll be getting the juice from a mill, should I just buy a couple jugs, take them home, and transfer into a carboy? My understanding is that the wild yeasts will go to work on the stuff. So how long does that fermentation usually take? When I bottle, is the priming amount the same as for an average 5-gallon batch of beer? How much krauesen gets produced? I did a cursory archive search, but didn't seem to pick any of the right articles... Basically, any good tips on basic cidermaking would be appreciated. - --- For my Holiday/Winter beer this year, I've pretty much settled on a Sticke (hihger-grav. Alt). Nitpicky style question here -- are aroma hops "allowed"? Or do the brewers play around more with these puppies? Thanks, Andy Ager Beer Geek, Beer Judge Chicago, IL Homebrewer Ordinaire - --Chicago Beer Society -- Silver Medal Homebrew Club of the Year, 1998 -- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:56:44 -0400 From: Peter.Perez at smed.com Subject: RE: pitching rates Most posts here mention to step up your starter a few times before pitching. I think this almost unanimously agreed upon as being beneficial. The one detail I don't see addressed is whether everyone is then decanting off the wort from these big starters and pitching just the slurry, or is everyone just pitching the whole thing? I am sure that there are people doing both. Would someone care to discuss the pros and cons of each alternative? It seems that pitching just the slurry would mean that you have discarded some of the yeast still in suspension, and this would be the most attenuative yeast, would it not? But if you pitch the whole starter, you are introducing a fair amount of foreign/off-style wort. And I have heard that wort from starters tastes really bad, due to the inherent characteristics of very aerated wort used to attempt to keep yeast in growth phase. Am I off track here or what? Thanks, Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:36:21 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Aging in carboys/repitch from big beer/high CO2 starters Hi all, John C. writes: "His [my] first suggestion for fixing my problem was increasing the volume of my yeast starter. Quite simply, IT WORKS!!!!!!" Another testimonial from a happy customer! I don't know if I should feel like a proud missionary or one of those low-life geeks on an infomercial. I am happy to have helped solve a problem, though. John goes on to ask about the pros and/or cons of aging beer in carboys instead of in bottles or kegs. The pro to lagering beer in a carboy is that you can see it. If you are waiting for it to drop clear you can easily monitor the beer without tapping a keg (and potentially drinking the whole thing before it is "done"). The cons of aging in a carboy are: 1. It is tougher to sample the beer asceptically. 2. Air. I do not use an airlock when lagering in a carboy. Airlocks allow a relatively free exchange of gas. Changes in temperature and/or atmospheric pressure will cause gas to enter or leave the carboy through the airlock. Oxygen is horrific at this stage. Instead of an airlock I cover the mouth of the carboy with flamed foil, rubber band it down, and then wrap "Parafilm" around it just to be sure. ("Parafilm" is a soft, waxy plastic film that can be used like plastic wrap. The difference is that it sticks to itself exceptionally well. Parafilm is so tough and sticky that it can be used as a barometer by sealing a flask with it and observing if it bellows out or in as the atmospheric pressure changes.) 3. The beer is not ready to drink at the end of lagering. You will need to force carbonate or Kraeusen the beer. Simply priming and bottling beer that has lagered at cold temperatures for a long time can yield very slow carbonation (too little active yeast). I usually allow the beer to drop clear in a carboy, then keg and carbonate it and allow it to mature. ---------------------------------------- There has been a little bit of talk going on (with Al K. and Tim) about whether or not it is OK to repitch yeast from a high gravity fermentation. Al pointed to an old HBD post that tells how they do not repitch the yeast from Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot. Brewery Ommegang, in Cooperstown, NY, does repitch their yeast. The two beers they currently offer are both relatively high-gravity, and are fermented at high temperature (25C/78F). They currently use only one yeast strain. So now that we have two data points I'll go out on a limb and say that the ability to repitch yeast after a high-gravity ferment is strain dependent. "Strain dependency" is always a pretty safe limb to go out on. ---------------------------------------- Matthew asks if some yeast produce more CO2 than others. He notes that his 1338 starter is much more carbonated than others he has made. The amount of CO2 produced by yeast is dependent on how much food they ferment. A super-attenuating strain (like S. diastaticus) will ferment more material in a given wort than a brewing strain, and thus produce more total CO2. Most brewing yeasts attenuate in the same range, though, so CO2 production should not be dramatically strain dependent. I have had starters (that weren't agitated constantly) become "super saturated" with CO2. Upon shaking the flask the stopper and airlock went flying as a miniature Vesuvius erupted in my kitchen. Not fun. I don't know for sure why this happens. It could be that the trub-free starter wort does not provide enough nucleation sites for the CO2 so it stays in solution. Constant agitation avoids this problem. Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:58:20 -0700 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: Re. Keg is Rusting. Andrew says: As I was prepping for my 4th batch yesterday morning, I looked into my HLT and with horror saw that the weld around my coupling was rust brown. Not only that, there are several "specks" of rust appearing on the keg walls. Does anyone know what is happening to my keg? Any suggestions on how to deal with this? Yep, it's rust. Very simple solution. Use a Scotchbrite scrubby (those green non-metallic ones) and some Cleanser and scour the rust off. Rinse it clean and let it dry. Let it stay dry for two weeks to re-passivate itself. You should have no problems after that. The protective oxides were comprimised during the welding process and the resultant blue oxides need to be cleaned off so the protective oxides can reform. Dont use a chlorinated cleanser like Comet or Ajax, use a stainless steel cookware cleanser like Revereware, Kleen King or Bar Keepers Friend. These are subject to local availability in your grocery stores. John Palmer metallurgist Palmer House Brewery and Smithy http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:38:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Film on your beer... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager.... Pete Perez asks about the film on his fermenting beer: Without seeing, smelling or tasting the subject beer, no-one can really give you more than conjecture. Since the beer smells and tastes fine, it is unlikely that you have an infection to worry about - particularly not acetobacter which, by producing acetic acid, quickly produces a very noticeable vinegar odor (at least in my experience) and pronounced flavor. (If I'm not mistaken, there are other bacterias that film as well. Your post gives insufficient data for any reasonable diagnosis.) Many things can result in a film on the beer as the ferment quiets: o What strain of yeast are you using? Being an ale (assumption on my part, but you are fermenting at 72'F...), the yeast is likely a top cropper. Could the flocculating yeast be your film? o What were some of the adjuncts used? Some grains and adjuncts contribute to a film on the beer. Don't know if it's due to lipids or what, but I've seen this - particularly with adjuncts such as cocoa powder. o Describe your mash (if all-grain) procedures and your boil. Did you get the hot and cold breaks you expected? Anyway, don't cave in to sheer supposition and dump your beer due to some assumed infection. Very rarely have I found previously unencountered fermenter phenomena to be due to beer-spoiling contaminants. Ferment out, bottle/keg, condition and taste. If it tastes ok, there is nothing wrong with your beer... See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Never dump a brew without a fair trial..." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:46:33 -0700 From: "NFGS" <fjrusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: San Anontio Tx I am going to be traveling a good deal this fall and want to look for some good brew pubs to visit any recommendations? Hampton, NH Palm Springs, Ca San Antonio, Tx Atlanta, Ga Huntsville, Al Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Mansfield <steve at nw.verio.net> Subject: Sunlight and beer wort > From: "Mike Butterfield" <XPBRMB at sugar.org.za> > > I am a beginner brewer, and have been following the yeast thread with > interest. One more question - there has been a lot posted about > oxygenation, yeast growth etc, but what about light ? Does light affect yeast > growth, and should brewing be done in the dark, or is it OK to have a > glass fermentation vessel standing in sunlight? I havent seen anything on > this in the texts I have read. My understanding is not that it will affect the yeast so much, but that there are other chlorophyll-based bits in the wort, which can react to sunlight and produce off-flavors. I have always kept my carboys covered with either a blanket or a cardboard box to keep light away. - -- Steve Mansfield steve at nw.verio.net Verio NorthWest Network Engineer 425-649-7467 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:53:55 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: flow rate of wort vs. water I've done my first all grain batch earlier this summer (June) and am getting ready for the fall season. One problem I had was controlling the run-off from the mash tun. The beer turned out ok and learned quite a bit. I'm now working on refining my method(s). One thing I want to do is make it a little easier to get the proper run-off speed. To this end I've tried various sized tubing and various materials. It's no surprise to me that the smaller tubing flowed slower. I did my tests using water. I filled my mash tun (10 gallon Igloo) with +3 gallons of water and timed how long it took to fill a 1 gallon jug which was sitting in my brewpot. My question: I know that wort is *thicker* than water and will have a different flow rate. Is there an easy correlation between water and wort? I know the tubing material will also play into this but I'm looking for general guidelines. If it took water 4 min/gallon, what will be the flow for wort? Most of my brews are in the 1.050-1.060 (FAG) range. I'm trying to set up my system so that I can use *proper* sized tubing to control the run-off. This way I can open the valve fully without too much worry. I can still fine tune the flow with the valve but trying to get a low flow from a 1/2" ball valve is not the easiest thing to do (at least for me). I'm shooting to collect 6-7 gallons in the boil pot in 45-60 min. Here is some data from the tests I did this morning (9/1) when I got home from work: 3/8" OD copper - 1:01 min/gal 1/4" OD copper - 3:46 min/gal 1/4" OD (1/8" ID) Tygon rated for 165degF - 8:07 min/gal John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:18:59 +1000 From: Jon bovard <jonbovard at geocities.com> Subject: The most disgusting brew story ever. Well if finally happened. No one will ever drink my beer again... Last night I was putting my new bag of pale malt through my Valley mill and I heard a lot of loud clunks..this was hard malt though..I looked at the crushed grain and it looked OK. I shrugged and kept grinding. Left it in container over night and went to mash in just then. Heated the water in mash tun and added grain. Outta the corner of my eyes i noticed something dark floating on the mash surface but when i looked and it was gone again. Any ideas yet what it was??? As i stirred the mash something darted over the grain bed again, I stopped and fished it out. NOW ive stumbled upon some preety sick things on the NET but none as foul as a MILL crushed coackroach floating in my Mash!! Apologies to those who know me and have to drink my beers. Jon Brisbane Australia Oh by the way, I kept brewing with that same mash. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 21:47:21 -0400 From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> Subject: re: RIMS on the horizon Doug, I've designed and built a system similar to what you're describing though I don't consider it a RIMS. For lack of a better term, I call it a Soft Heat Mash System (SHMS). I started working on it last December and completed the system about a month ago. I haven't mashed with it yet, but have done some temperature boosts with water only, with very good results. Here's some particulars: 1. 5 gal Gott as a Mash Tun with 8 ft of 1/2 inch copper tube heat coil and a mash mixer (I have twice mashed with the mash mixer, BTW). 2. Hot liquor tank supplies water directly to pump and on to the mash tun heat coil. No HLT coil required nor desired. 3. Starting with 5 gal of HLT water at almost boiling, boosted 3 gal of water in Gott from 132 deg F to 159 deg F in 3 minutes. 4. Boosted from 159 deg F to 171 deg F in 2 minutes. 5. For what it's worth, boosted from 171 deg to 183 deg in 4 min. 6. During temperature boosts, temp overshoots were minimal with pump ON/OFF commands. I think this system will lend itself well to simple thermostat control. No PID control required. Needless to say, I'm quite impressed with the performance of this system so far and plan a real mash, probably this weekend. I'm also working on a web site that will show some of the details. A great deal of the complexity of this system is for convenience and flexibility (9 ball valves and 6 QDs) whereas the basic concept is simple. Liberal use of plumbing and ball valves allows the system to be reconfigured to recirc the sweet liquor to clarify prior to lautering, back flush for cleaning and, potentially, suction lautering (I worked on a dairy farm for quite a few of my younger years). Good luck and feel free to e-mail me directly if you have any questions about my system or building yours. Dave Ludwig Flat Iron Brewery SO Md Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:51:23 EDT From: AKGOURMET at aol.com Subject: Alaskan Amber Beer The Alaskan Brewing Company has a web page at www.alaskanbeer.com which has a few hints to the recipe for Alaskan Amber. Sorry, but we're all sworn to secrecy here. Bill Wright Juneau, AK 4 miles north of the brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:23:44 -0400 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Malt Minerals The question as to whether brewing water synthesized from distilled (or otherwize deionized) water or RO water by the addition of carbonates, sulfates and chlorides of sodium, potassium and magnesium needs to be augmented with sources of trace elements comes up from time to time and has done so again recently. In my opinion this is not necessary because of the trace mineral content of malt. To quote BHS&Y "Malt contains all the mineral substances needed to support yeast growth." (VI p91). In previous private correspondence with Ken Schwartz I had noted that a Pils brewed with a well water/RO water blend with a zinc content of about 0.007 mg/L had a zinc ion content of 0.035 mg/L i.e 5 times that of the water. I had promised Ken I'd investigate further but never did. Now Nathan Kanous is asking the same question. Ken, Nathan, anyone who is interested, here's a little more data - still at the anecdotal level but data nevertheless. I've analyzed DWC Pale Ale malt (the only thing I've got in the house that hasn't been around for long enough to pick up a bunch of moisture). A sample of this malt gave the following: TKN 15.0 g/kg ---> Crude protein 93.5 g/kg or 9.35% Zinc 85.4 mg/kg Copper 20.1 mg/kg Manganese 5.9 mg/kg Phosphate 11.1 g/kg (i.e. 1.1%) as PO4-3 --> 3.61 g/kg as P These numbers include all of the particular analyte i.e. free ions as well as organically bound ones (we do violent things to release the latter for analysis). If we assume about a liter of water per half kilogram of malt (roughly a quart per pound) the math is easy and we'd have 43 mg/L total zinc, 10 mg/K total copper and 3 mg/L total Mn in the beer. These levels are well above "trace" levels but not all the bound metals may be available to the yeast. The zinc measurement quoted above for beer is for the zinc ion only (i.e. it does not include organically bound zinc) and is orders of magnitude smaller than the number estimated from the total zinc content of this malt but be aware that that beer was not brewed with this malt. It would be interesting to compare the free and total zinc (and copper) content of a finished beer with that of the malt it was brewed from and perhaps one day I'll get to do that. For now, suffice it to say that malt appears to have lots of copper, manganese and zinc and that at least trace levels of zinc make it through to the finished beer in free ion form. For those using RO or DI water who are not convinced by these sketchy data I suggest the Wyeast nutrient which contains "... zinc and other trace elements beneficial for rapid, complete fermentation." Return to table of contents
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