---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  The Hopfarm (1 of 2) ("Charles Rich")
  The Hopfarm (2 of 2) ("Charles Rich")
  Altbier recipe (Al Korzonas)
  Amino acids and higher alcohols (Al Korzonas)
  Re: Green hops (Gail Elber)
  response to HBD # 2824, from 9/15/98 ("Fred Scheer-Malt Montana")
  Maine Again ("Derek Shepard")
  Beers to get in Colorado ("PARKER,Myles")
  Re: ion concentration in first brew in 2 years (Dave Humes)
  Unibroue and skunky beer/Environmentalist nonsense ("George De Piro")
  Clinitest, ("David R. Burley")
  skunking (David Kerr)
  Hampton, NH (Jebbly)
  re: Christmas Brew (Denis Barsalo)
  A High Tech Question (MaltyDog)
  Hard piping configuration (Vintage Cellar)
  The Hoppiest Show on Earth ("Edmund J. Busch")
  Call for BJCP Judges ("Edmund J. Busch")
  bottling temps ("Mike Allred")
  unibroue, Christmas Ale ("Bryan L. Gros")
  NO MORE CLINITEST ("George, Marshall E.")
  blowoff and hops (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Alt hopping question, style descriptors (Steve Jackson)
  Re: Dunkelweizen (Jeff Renner)
  [Fwd: Ice usage in Cincinnati breweries] (kathy)


No you're not crazy: the HBD server went down at app 3pm 9/13 and returned
to life noon 9/14. Our apologies for the outtage...

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:37:18 -0700
From: "Charles Rich" <riches at halcyon.com>
Subject: The Hopfarm (1 of 2)

My brew buddy Jon Betterley, and I grabbed a fistful of beer-bullets* from
the war chest and told our families, "We're gonna check out a hop ranch in
Yakima this weekend."  They said we should, we deserved it.  Yes!!

This was my first year with my own hop crop, my flowers had looked good
enough to pick all week but didn't have all of indicators we discuss on the
HBD each year about this time.  The flowers felt papery, dryish and not
cool; they were slightly fading from their soft, vivid green but the strig
didn't break cleanly off at flower (I found out why in Yakima).  I thought
they didn't show a lot of lupulin between the bractioles and when I dried
them the flowers disintegrated into petals on handling (I beat that, too);
and how dry is the perfect dry?  I had too many questions and needed to see
how it's done, touch it, so Jon and I took up a recent invitation to visit
the 500-acre Morrier Hop Ranch for the harvest and then we hit the road.

Bright, hot Yakima, Washington (pron: YACK-ih-Mah) with abundant irrigation
and deep, rich soil (Montana and North Dakota's topsoil in fact, thanks to
the last Ice Age) is a great place for growing anything.  Driving past "Hop
Truck Crossing" signs and hop trucks heaped with Yakima gold, we pulled
into the ranch's unloading station and introduced ourselves.  The ranch
manager, Jerry Kloster, and station leads, Mike Sanders and the very
helpful Ebarado, all answered questions and generously let us nose around
the whole works.  Ebarado ran the kilning and explained everything about
that mystery, wading into the middle of the kilns showing us fistfuls from
different places and levels, showing us in detail how drying hops behave. 
Hot humid, fresh Galena, and delicate, last night's Goldings.  Mike showed
us the post-baling sampling, logging and storage, and Jerry told us about
the business, local and global, and invited us to fill bags with samples. 
A mountain range of finished Goldings rolled on behind us, as high as our
heads.  And sunnuvagun, they had as much lupulin as mine!

Here's what we learned:  They harvest 22 hours a day with most of the
picking at night and morning.  The strig break is snappy and close to the
flower at these times.  As the day progresses the strig gets more
resillient and breaks further away from the flower.  I checked this at
different times when I got home and it appeared so.   I'd always checked
them after work, in late afternoon, and they were tougher.  Late at night,
they were nice.

In the harvest-ready fields I noticed that the cones were striped.  When
the cone color drops,  and some of the petals get paler,  there is a subtle
but distinct contrasting color effect running lengthwise along the cone. 
There is a lighter stripe of two pale bractioles alternating with a stripe
of slightly greener bracts.  If you've noticed that hop cones are basically
square shaped in cross-section, the darker green runs up the corners.  I
suspect this stands out when one type of petal fades but before the corners
do.  Although the ranch goes by daily lab checks to tell when to pick, this
may be a useful visual indicator. 

The hops grow twisting on 16' slanted sisal or jute ropes about 1/4" thick
descending from long cables overhead and anchored to the ground in rows of
V's.  A tractor harvester drives between the V's cutting the bottoms on
both sides of the row about 16" above ground, leaving the bines dangling. 
Another rig follows cutting the ropes at the top and collecting the bines
on a bed.  As these collectors fill, hop trucks take the loads to the
stripping barn, the unloading station, where the cones are taken off.

The bines are attached by snap hooks to an overhead conveyor around the
room, carrying them ultimately through a small gap between two close-facing
walls of steel prongs, flying downwards, ripping through the bines as they
are dragged through.  In two seconds the bine is stripped of its cones and
some leaves.  Upward sloping separators carry the leaves and twigs away by
friction while the cones roll down them into conveyors below, carrying them
to the kilns.  The bines and waste are ground and then spread  back over
the fields for the soil.  They were harvesting Galena when we arrived. 
Interestingly, most of the high-alpha varieties are used for making
extracts used here and abroad, even by German brewers, than they are used
in the kettle.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:38:40 -0700
From: "Charles Rich" <riches at halcyon.com>
Subject: The Hopfarm (2 of 2)

(continued)

The kilning barn has ten shallow pool-sized wells about 20' x 30' x 3.5'
with false bottoms for forcing 150F air upward through the hops.  Each well
yields nine to twelve 200+ pound bales.  The kilns are controlled
individually and are sampled at least hourly for moisture by robotic probes
above.  The kilnsman trims the heat and air, varying it throughout the
drying, even shoveling hops away from the walls where they dry slower,
until the batch is at 8.0% moisture after around eight hours.  This is
monitored electronically now, but when my host, Paul Morrier, was young it
was his job to check for doneness by hand because he had the right "touch"
for it.  He worked around the clock at harvest, only catnapping, because it
was the crucial step.  After drying to 8.0% the whole batch rests for two
hours to cool before baling.  8.0% moisture feels very dry but the whole
cone is still springy, resilliant and remains intact despite heavy
handling.  Over-dried they'd fall apart like mine at home, ruining the lot.

Since my process handling requirements are simpler, when I got home I found
I could actually overdry the hops but let the racks rest for an hour or so
outside of the drier and they took up only enough moisture to become
resilliant again.  The results were indistinguishable from the professional
product.  The pros might not spend a tenth of their process bandwidth for a
ton of hops three feet deep to recover resilliancy but I can,  I'm
delighted with that discovery.  I dry in a homemade cabinet food drier with
a small heating element in the bottom and a muffin fan on top.  The inside
temperature is about 120F+ but the airflow is the most important part.  The
dried hops are as vividly colored as when they were picked.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the dried cones are packed in 200+ pound
burlap bales, accounted, then stored in a huge refrigerated warehouse. 
They are conditioned at about 32F for a long period to guarantee that the
whole bale is the same temperature throughout.  Later when the warehouse is
filled they're kept at around 16F.  During conditioning they're monitored
by periodic temperature scans in case any bale should ever endothermically
heat (compost).  If any such bale were found, the entire row would be torn
down to remove it.  One row holds about 240 bales.  The refrigerated
warehouse holds about 12-14,000 200+ pound bales!

The Morrier's store other grower's hops too.  We saw Mike receive bales the
way brokers do.  Counting (two people, two times each), weighing,  Jabbing
a deep probe and noting moisture,  sliding something like a spear-gun
barbed tool in and retrieving a handful of sample for a visual check.  They
check their own bales similarly.  

All very cool, we grinned the whole way back.  Jon took about twenty
digital photos of the machinery, kilns, storage rooms, fields etc.  We'd
like to show these to you, if anyone can give them a home for awhile. 
Please say by email if you can help.

Cheers,  
Charles and Jon

* Beer Bullets: Beer related indulgences conceded for favor.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:05:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Altbier recipe

George writes:
>For those of us who have not been to Duesseldorf and brew to the AHA
>guideline, could someone post their method and ingredients for brewing a
>true Duesseldorf Altbier?

Actually, I've posted bits and pieces of my recipe over the years although
I don't know if I've ever posted it full...

Al's Altbier (it's had many names, always with the initials ZU ;^)

8# Weyermann Dark Munich or DeWolf-Cosyns Munich
1# Weyermann Melanoidin malt or DeWolf-Cosyns Aromatic
3 oz. Spalt pellet hops (~4.7% AA) boiled 90 minutes
Wyeast #1338 European Ale yeast

Mash for 1 hour at 156F.
Boil for 90 minutes.
Cool, oxygenate, pitch a 2L starter.
Ferment at 63F until done.

I've found that there is little difference from lagering this beer.

OG: 1.050-1.053
FG: 1.011-1.012

You will have a little hop flavour and a touch of hop aroma despite
the fact that all the hops are added at T-90 minutes.  With that many
hops, you simply have spillover of aroma and flavour.  Note this recipe
presumes that you don't have any blowoff.  If you anticipate blowoff,
use 3.5 ounces of Spalt.  I used the Aromatic or Melanoidinmalt because
I'm doing a single-temp infusion mash and not a decoction mash.  I
believe these malts add some of the melanoidins that you would get
if you did a decoction.


Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:38:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Amino acids and higher alcohols


Steve writes:
>AlK points out correctly that fusel alcohol production by yeast drops at both
>very low and very high amino acid levels.

Nay, nay... I said it *INCREASES* at both very low and very high amino
acid levels!  Must have been a typo.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:03:43 -0700
From: Gail Elber <gail at brewtech.com>
Subject: Re: Green hops

Sierra Nevada makes a seasonal Harvest Ale with green hops. According to a
press release from the brewery, they brew only 300 bbl of it for
distribution in Northern California. However, this year it will be
available at the GABF as the commemorative beer of the Institute for
Brewing Studies' 15th anniversary.





Gail Elber, Associate Editor
BrewingTechniques
P.O. Box 3222
Eugene, OR 97403
Tel. 541/687-2993
Fax 541/687-8534
http://brewingtechniques.com




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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:19:51 -0600
From: "Fred Scheer-Malt Montana" <maltmt at marsweb.com>
Subject: response to HBD # 2824, from 9/15/98

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:21:49 +0930
From: "Jenny and Peter Stockham" <jennyandpete1 at bettanet.net.au>
Subject: Why do mash enzymes work and chemistry of head retention
Hello all
Can anyone explain to me the chemistry behind good head retention or 
give me
a relevant reference or link? 

Some factors on head retention:

* foam will be generated through gas bubbles (CO2)
* Higher use of malt in grist
* Protein, Kolbach index
* foam positive substances==> are the higher molecular weight 
protein degradation   
  product with a molecular weight of 10,000 and 60,000.
* higher hoping rates 
* in the Malting process ==> higher curing temperatures promote foam
* at mashing; long rests at 50 - 60* C ( 122*F - 140*F) will result in 
poor foam
* I found that the following promoted more foam in beers I had brewed; 
58*C(136.4*F)   for about 10 minutes; than raise at 1*C
  per minute to 63*C (145.4*F)
* the use of wheat malt in grist (I used in the past 1 -2% of wheat 
malt)
* through the use of alginate extract

These are some of the parameters on foam etc.


Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:37:12 -0700
From: "Greg Lorton" <glorton at cts.com>
Subject: High Mash Temp, Low Attenuation


1.  Is this apparent attenuation reasonable for a 161F saccharification
temp?

In the range of 144 - 146*F the highest amount of maltose is build and 
the ADA
will be higher ( maltose is  easier to use by yeasts )

2.  Is this as far as the fermentation is going to go?

If your fermentation stops, I think you had to much dextrins in your 
wort.

3.  Should I add some champagne yeast to try to get a bit more
fermentation?

You also can use some top fermenting yeast


Fred  Scheer, President & Maltster
MALT MONTANA, Inc
maltmt at marsweb.com
"PORTER'S PRAISE DEMANDS MY SONG, PORTER BLACK AND PORTER STRONG"  ANON. 
CIRCA 1800




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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:47:16 +0000
From: "Derek Shepard" <derek.shepard at att.net>
Subject: Maine Again

Check out Bar Harbor Brewing Company. They have some great 
tasting beer named after a lot of the local sites in Acadia National 
Park. I personaly liked the "Thunder Hole Brown Ale". They have a 
"Cadillac Mountain Stout" as well along with a few other beers. The 
brewer was very friendly and gives a pretty nice tour of his place. 
He is located about 1 mile from the entrance of the campground a 
few miles outside of Bar Harbor. Check out Acadia National Park 
while you are there. It is spectacular.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:51:54 +1000
From: "PARKER,Myles" <myles.parker at deetya.gov.au>
Subject: Beers to get in Colorado

	Dear fellow beer enthusiasts,

	I currently have a friend over in your neck of the woods (in
Colorado) and was wondering if there are some nice beers that I could coerce
him into bringing back for me. Products from micro-breweries or even larger
ones in that area would be fine.

	Your help is very much appreciated.
	Private email is fine - don't burden the list.
 
Myles Parker,
Canberra Brewers Club,
Canberra. 
Capital city of the 
beautiful land of OZ!
Australia.
	  


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 01:00:10 -0400
From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ion concentration in first brew in 2 years

In Homebrew Digest #2825, Steve reports his brew came out unexpectedly
bitter and was worried about the ion concentrations after adding various
salts.  Based on his numbers:  17.2g MgSO4, 4.2g NaHCO3, 1.8g NaCl, and
40.89g CaSO4 added to 10 gallons of water, I arrived at the following
concentrations (ignoring the very low starting concentrations in his
water):


          Steve's                Burton

Mg      63.6 ppm            40 ppm   
Na      49.07 ppm           25 ppm   
Ca      251 ppm             275 ppm
HCO3   80.58 ppm           260 ppm    
Cl       28.9 ppm             35 ppm
SO4     853 ppm             450 ppm

The Burton concentrations are from Noonan's New Brewin Lager Beer.  The
one I'd be worried about is the SO4.  According to Noonan again, "It gives
beer a dry, fuller flavor, although the taste can be objectionably sharp. 
With Sodium and Magnesium it is catharatic.  Above 500 ppm, it is strongly
bitter, and levels are best kept at less than 150 ppm unless the beer is
very highly hopped.  With intensely bitter beers, sulfate at 150 to 350
ppm gives a cleaner, more piquant bitterness."

I recently brewed a pale ale where I tried to "Burtonize" the water.  I
have fairly soft water, but not as soft as yours.  After working out the
numbers, I added 15g CaSO4 to 6.5 gal mash water and 28g CaSO4 to 12 gal
sparge water.  The beer was crap.  A very hash bitterness/astingency was
noted.  I'm going to dump it as soon as my next batch is ready.  I'd back
way off on the sulfate and not necessarily shoot for the local brewing
water of your favorite brew city.  

Good luck.



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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 07:05:29 PDT
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Unibroue and skunky beer/Environmentalist nonsense

Hi all,

Dan Cole writes, in response to me saying that Unibroue is either using 
tetra hops
or wants the beer to skunk:

"I seriously doubt this. Unibroue is quickly becoming a very respected 
brand
and as I understand it is very traditional in its brewing techniques (I
have no affiliation, nor have I had the pleasure of tasting any of their
products)."

The Unibroue sales manager was a guest speaker at a recent Malted Barley
Appreciation Society meeting (we're based in Brooklyn, if anybody is 
interested).
He talked about the pilsner (although it was not available for tasting) 
in an almost
apologetic manner.  He never did mention clear bottles or orange lights. 
 Perhaps
he knew the repsonse he would get...

The main reason Unibroue is producing a pilsner is money.  They need to 
increase
sales and feel that marketing something that will appeal to the average 
Canadian
will help them reach this goal (contrary to what the average American 
thinks the Canadian
beer scene is way behind our own).  I not only do not fault them for 
this, but applaud them.
I would like to see them stay in business so that I can continue to enjoy
 their other
products.

I do take issue with their apparent marketing of the pilsner, though.  
Speading nonsense about
working under orange lights, etc. does not help to educate consumers.  
If they are
truly concerned about the beer becoming light struck then why don't they 
put it
in brown bottles?  EVERY other beer they sell is in BROWN bottles!

If it was your brewery would you put faith in bar owners and distributors
 to properly
care for your beer, or would you produce/package it in such a manner as 
to make it
more forgiving of abuse?  Or perhaps you would want it to taste like 
Molson because
you need the money...
- ----------------------------------
Jim Cave, and probably others, missed the sarcasm in my post about 
phosphates being banned
in NY State.  I know that algae blooms are real and bad, and aside from 
driving about 30K miles
per year I try to be quite green.  Once again it has been shown that 
sarcasm does not work
in this medium.

Have fun!

George de Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:18:30 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Clinitest,

Brewsters:

AlK provides a summary of his current position on Clinitest:

- ----------------------
        "1. readings at or below 1/4% are a sure indication that
        fermentation is complete.

        2. readings of 2% or greater are a sure indication that
        fermentation is NOT complete.

And here's the part that you *repeatedly* ignore, Dave:

        3. readings between 1/4% and 2% mean fermentation may or
        may not be complete...  knowing which requires an understanding
        of the fermentability of your wort."
- ------------------------

 I agree with 1 and 2 - at least we are making some headway in getting 
you
to consider that Clinitest has some utility in homebrewing. You are 
correct
that I repeatedly ignore your unsuported comments in number 3 as should
every other HBD reader.  You indignantly act like you know something in
number 3 which you cannot. You have NEVER tried Clinitest and everything
you say about it comes from your imagination.  If you have the proof for
your comments in Number 3 let's see it.


Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:41:46 -0400
From: David Kerr <dkerr at semc.org>
Subject: skunking

Just a data point on skunking...
While vacationing in Maine last month, I poured a glass of my raspberry
stout into a greenish-blue tinted glass, took a sip and it tasted
great.  Brought the glass outside (late afternoon), put it on the picnic
table for less than 2 minutes, and the skunk aroma was beyond
noticable.  I held my nose and drained the glass.  I had heard that dark
beer was less susceptable to skunking than pale- I'm glad that I didn't
bring an IPA with me!
No, I didn't brew/ferment/bottle under orange light.


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:47:21 EDT
From: Jebbly at aol.com
Subject: Hampton, NH

fjrusso asks for info on brewpubs for his travels:

I'm not sure where Hampton, NH is but, if you are near White River Junction
(west side of the state on the border of VT), I recommend th Seven Barrel
Brewery.  This is one of two brewpubs that Greg Noonan has opened over the
last decade.  The other being the Vermont Pub and Brewery in Burlington, VT.
Noonan is a true master of the craft.  Even if you're not near it, NH being a
small state, it is worth driving an hour out of your way for.

Also, there's a place in Norwich, Vermont called the Norwich Inn which is home
to Jasper Murdock's Tavern.  I don't recall the brewer's name, but he started
out brewing for the Inn in small batches and recently built a small brewery on
site to support the demand.  A few years ago his trademark brew, Jasper
Murdock's Ale, was highly praised at the Vt Brewfest and rightfully so.  It is
worth a small pilgrimage to Norwich especially if his tavern ale is on tap.  

Good Luck!

Jebbly.


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:51:09 -0400
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at cam.org>
Subject: re: Christmas Brew

>A question for the collective;
>
>I am interested in brewing a Christmas Ale.  I recently read an article in
>BYO in which the author indicates that he brews his Christmas brews in
>May (in order for all of the spice additions to mellow and blend).

	I brewed a Xmas Beer in early November of '96. I drank most of it
that year for Xmas but it tended to bee a little "thick" and spicy. I
decided I would "age" a six pack.
	Last year at Xmas, I opened one of the bottles I saved and it was
amazing. The spices and flavors were nice and mellow, the alcohol had
"sherried" nicely and it turned out to be a great beer! The only thing I
found wrong with it, is that it tended to be a bit overcarbonated since
it's best drank at cellar temp. I'm looking forward to drinking some again
this year at Xmas!
	If I can give you some advice, brew a high alcohol beer (Barley
Wine), don't be affraid to spice it up (Nutmeg, Mace, Cinnamon, Vanilla,
Orange), prime the bottles on the low side (1/2 cup at most), and let them
age for a year! My recipe was a full mash to which I added extract and
honey to get to an OG of 1.072 Spices were added to the boil and also as
"dry spice" in the secondary.

Denis Barsalo
CABA Montreal Regional Rep




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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:30:04 EDT
From: MaltyDog at aol.com
Subject: A High Tech Question

Is their some way I can set up my e-mail program 
so that it filters out any entry in the Homebrew Digest
that contains the word "Clinitest"?

It would be very useful.

Bill Coleman
MaltyDog at aol.com


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:15:15 -0400
From: Vintage Cellar <sales at vintagecellar.com>
Subject: Hard piping configuration

I am in the process of constructing a 3 kettle pilot brewery for recipe
development and have a question regarding hard piping the lauter tun. I
have  constructed a loop for vorloff which runs from the base of the
lauter tun into the inlet of the pump then out and back into the top.
Upon setting the bed i want to divert the flow to the kettle however i
am concerned that i will create a pressure change under the bed upon
doing so. Does anyone have any thoughts on how I should plumb this as to
not disturb the bed would be greatly appreciated?  I realize that i
could use a piece of flex tubing and just throw it to the kettle but why
do things the easy way.
                   TIA,

                   Kenny



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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:16:00 -0400
From: "Edmund J. Busch" <Brewmaster at compuserve.com>
Subject: The Hoppiest Show on Earth

Subject: Homebrew  Competition Announcement 


Princeton And Local Environs Ale and Lager Enjoyment Society
a.k.a. PALE ALES

Proudly presents our Second Annual Homebrew Competition,
The Hoppiest Show on Earth

This is a BJCP Recognized Homebrew Competition.

Saturday, December 5, & Sunday, December 6, 1998

Prizes Galore
All 27 Categories of Beer and Mead
No Ciders or Wines 

Judged to current BJCP Style Guidelines 


Entry Requirements:
Enter via website at:  http://members.tripod.com/~BrewMiester_2/Home.html

(be careful about spelling and capitalization. We know that Miester is
misspelled.) or pick up entry form.
Two bottles, 12-16 ounce, clean, unmarked, plain or blackened caps.
$6.00 for first entry, $5.00 for subsequent entries .
Entry fees to be paid via check or money order payable to PALE ALES, no
cash. 

All entries must be received by November 27, 1998, no exceptions.
Ship/drop off entries to:
 Princeton Homebrew, 148 Witherspoon St. Princeton,  NJ 08542
Entries may also be dropped off at The Little Shop of Hops, Manhattan, NY

Include SASE for score sheet return.

For complete rules, see entry website:
(http://members.tripod.com/~BrewMiester_2/Home.html)
For style guidelines see http://www.bjcp.org/style-guide.html
To request a manual entry form, rules, or style guidelines, call
908-369-3378 and leave address and request.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:16:03 -0400
From: "Edmund J. Busch" <Brewmaster at compuserve.com>
Subject: Call for BJCP Judges

CALL FOR JUDGES!
On the weekend of December 5-6, 1998, the Princeton, NJ homebrew club, 
Pale
Ales, will hold the second annual homebrew competition, The Hoppiest Show

On Earth. We invite all BJCP judges to attend and participate in judging.

        In 1997, at our inaugural event, we attracted 439 entries, an
extraordinary amount of entries for a first competition. This year, we
expect much more.
        Judging starts promptly at 10 AM Saturday morning. Please arrive 
by
9 AM for registration.

        The Amenities: On Saturday, continental breakfast and lunch will 
be
provided. Chef Paul Karaseiwicz is a professional chef (who happens to 
have
won the Samuel Adams Longshot Homebrew Competition a couple of years 
ago).
Dinner can be leftovers from lunch or you can purchase dinner at a local
restaurant or brewpub. Saturday evening will include a social, so that
judges can mingle and discuss beer stuff. On Sunday, continental 
breakfast
and lunch will be provided. The Best Of Show round should be completed by

early afternoon, with awards announced by mid-afternoon.
        Lodging: For those who wish to stay in the area, "crash space",
a.k.a. soft spots on carpeted floor, will be available. Bring your own 
air
mattresses and/or sleeping bags. For those wishing professional
accommodations, within a 15 mile radius are rooms ranging from the 
mundane
(Days Inn) to the luxurious (Hyatt), modern to historic, as well as bed 
and
breakfasts. We recommend staying locally. For those who just might have 
one
too many at the social, designated drivers will be provided to the "crash

spaces" and local hotels.
        Spouses: For those who might visit the area while their spouses
judge, there is shopping of all kinds. Boutiques, shopping malls, factory

outlets, and big box stores (Walmart, Home Depot, etc.) nearby. Downtown
Princeton is fun. The city of Philadelphia is only about 35 miles away,
with places like Independence Hall, the Betsy Ross House, a zoo, the 
mint,
ethic neighborhoods, and many other attractions. New Hope, PA is a 
shopping
and artists mecca and a few miles away is Lahaska, PA, a shopping area 
and
outlet town. Flemingtown, NJ is another outlet town, and both Lahaska and

Flemington are only about half an hour away from the competition site. 
For
those who prefer brewpubs, the competition site is equidistant to two
brewpubs, Triumph Brewing in Princeton, and Jersey Jims in 
Hillsborough.
Lahaska, PA has its own brewpub, Buckingham Mountain Brewery. There are
other brewpubs in NJ and eastern PA, as well as microbreweries. We 
suggest
checking the listings available in such publications as Ale Street News.
Ale Street News is available online at www.alestreetnews.com.
        Judge Registration: Judge registration is available online at our

website (http://members.tripod.com/~BrewMiester_2/Home.html).  Please 
watch
the spelling  of the website carefully, including the capitalization. 
Yes,
we know that Miester is misspelled, but nobody expects programmers to 
know
how to spell.
        We hope that you will judge at this exciting homebrew 
competition.
If you have any questions, please e-mail me personally at
brewmaster at compuserve.com, or call me at 908-359-3235.

I wish you good health and good cheer!
Ed Busch
Judge Director

PS Feel free to post this notice on any homebrew or beer related site.

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:20:00 -0700
From: "Mike Allred" <mike.allred at malnove.com>
Subject: bottling temps


Al Korzonas said:

>Personally, I don't ask the yeast to carbonate the mead for me... they
>have already done enough!  When I do make the odd sparkling mead, I
>force-carbonate it and bottle that.  Typically, I'll use 2L PET bottles
>and Carbonater(tm) caps.  I overcarbonate it by a few tenths of a   
volume,
>chill to 35F and then pour gently into cool bottles.

And a little bell went off in my head (actually a very large gong sound   
would be more like it).  I have been having a problem with foaming during   
bottling lately.  Now, I think I know why.  I have a tempature controlled   
room that my beer sits in (65 deg).  My bottles are usually room temp (75   
deg).

Would bottling 65 deg beer into 75 deg bottles cause foaming?  I'll bet   
if I cooled the bottles to 65 deg, that my problem would be reduced   
greatly.  What do you all think?  



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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:51:32 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: unibroue, Christmas Ale

Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> wrote:
>George De Piro said:
>>     Dan says that he has heard that Unibroue is manufacturing their new 
>>     Pilsner under orange lights to protect it from skunking during its 
>>     time in the brewery.  It is packaged in clear bottles.
>
>Actually, the article went on to say that the bottles were being shipped in
>a unique bottle carrier that was light-tight. It went on to say, if the
>bottles weren't mishandled in bars (pulled out of the case and put into a
>bucket of ice under flourescent lights), when the customer opened the
>6-pack carrier would be the first time that it saw "real" light.

So, this "unique bottle carrier" would be, maybe....cardboard box?

But seriously, why use a clear bottle unless you want stores to put
the beer up on a shelf for all to admire? If the beer is going to sit
in a box until you get home, you might as well get the cheapest bottle
you can find and save money on the label by not having one...

>I seriously doubt this. Unibroue is quickly becoming a very respected
brand...

True, Unibroue makes some pretty tasty beers...
*****************
IAN FORBES <IFORBES at BCBSCT.COM> writes:
>
>I am interested in brewing a Christmas Ale.  I recently read an article in
>BYO in which the author indicates that he brews his Christmas brews in
>May (in order for all of the spice additions to mellow and blend).  Is it to
>late in the year to brew a Christmas type ale? 

Can't offer a recipe, but the age you need for your Christmas Ale will
depend on the recipe. and also on your taste preferences.

Generally, a high alcohol, highly spiced beer will benefit from six to
nine months of age. If you're going to be brewing one in the next couple
weeks, then make sure the OG isn't too high and it isn't over-spiced.
Also, think about when you want to open them...Thanksgiving? or
wait until Christmas Eve? I believe Anchor Christmas beer is brewed
in Sept or Oct. and it isn't a terribly high OG beer.

Also, remember that "christmas ale" doesn't have to mean a beer
with spices. You can make whatever special beer you want for
your holiday. But the majority, I think, are spiced.

and if it comes out a winner, consider entering it in the Bay Area
Brew Off, in January. We have a category for Holiday Beer.

  - Bryan Gros
    Oakland CA
    visit the Draught Board Homebrew Page:
http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm

 
      - Bryan 
 
 gros at bigfoot.com 
 Oakland, CA


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:51:51 -0500
From: "George, Marshall E." <MGeorge at bridge.com>
Subject: NO MORE CLINITEST

Dave Burley writes:  Clinitest, blah blah blah blah...

Dave, are you the president and head sales rep for Clinitest?  Never
have I seen someone so hooked on a product that others refute time and
time again, unless they are a paid representative.  ENOUGH ALREADY -
you're using a product <u>used in urine glucose measurements for
diabetics, not brewing</u>.

Marshall George



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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:42:21 -0400
From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
Subject: blowoff and hops

collective homebrew conscience:

i've got two beer recipes that i've been brewing for about 3-4 years.  this
year, for the first time, i used a 7 gallon carboy to ferment so that there
was no krausen blowoff.  in past years, both recipes used blowoff tubes in 5
gallon carboys. everything else about the ingredients, brewing processes,
and fermentation has remained very consistent (as much as i can control
them).  also, the og and fg data is almost identical to past years.

this is really just confirming data that's been posted on hop bitterness and
the effects of blowoff on the finished beer, but the vienna-style is leaning
to the bitter side of balance this year, and the helles tastes closer to an
export in terms of balance.  the effect of not blowing off the krausen was
enough to push these beers outside their typical (to style) bitter/sweet
profile.    

one other thing is that there is more hop *flavor* (read *flavour*, al) than
in past years. it's especially noticeable in the helles. 


brew hard,

mark bayer


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:37:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Alt hopping question, style descriptors

It's been fascinating reading the alt thread over the last several
days. This is a style I've recently started tackling, and it's
something I'm bound and determined to master.

I recently sent the first alt I brewed to a competition. I figured it
wouldn't win any awards, since while I think it's a fine beer and a
good example of the style as I understand it, the competition was
using AHA guidelines, which don't appear to mirror actual Dusseldorfer
altbiers (big surprise, and more on that later).

I got my judging sheets back yesterday, and the comments pretty much
reflected what I expected: Good beer but not great, because it's not
sweet enough, at least according to AHA guidelines.

There was one comment in there though that troubled me a bit. Not
because I thought the comment was wrong, but because it was something
I noticed in the beer as well and have no idea how to fix it.

The "flaw" is the presence of hop flavor. It's subtle, but it's
definitely there. I found it amusing to be admonished not to add
flavoring hops, since all my hops went into one addition at 60
minutes, but I couldn't dispute that there definitely was hop flavor
there. I used 3.2 oz. of 3.4 percent Hallertauer Hersbrucker hops (the
shop was out of Spalt, which was my preferred hop) for a 60 minute
boil to get an estimated 41 IBUs.

My question is this: How do I use such a large volume of hops without
transmitting some hop flavor to the final product? Would a 90-minute
boil have been better, both because a smaller volume of hops would
have been needed and because the longer boil would, at least
theoretically, drive off more of the flavor-contributing compounds?

My other question/concern is about the AHA guidelines. As we saw from
the change in the Kolsch guidelines, it's not unheard of for the AHA
to have guidelines that have very few similarities with the actual
beer they're patterned after. The BJCP guidelines are dramatically
different and, as I understand the style (I have to rely on the
descriptions provided by people I know who've drank the real thing,
since I've never made it over to Dusseldorf), much closer to the real
thing.

Has anybody mounted an effort to try to get the AHA to modify their
alt guidelines to closer reflect reality? To me, it seems like they
force judges to mark down beers that fit the style's true profile:
toasty sweetness upfront with a strong yet clean bitterness at the
back. The AHA simply appears to be asking for too sweet a beer.

Just for the curious, and in case it helps find answers to my hop
problem, here's my recipe:

Zum Guy Alt (a bad pun in honor of the classic style and,
coincidentally, Pat Babcock's moniker)

8.5# Durst Munich
 .5# DWC Aromatic
3.2 oz. H. Hersbrucker hops (3.4 percent) at 60 minutes
1/2 tsp. Breakbright at 15 minutes
Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast in 2L starter (next time I'll use the
#1338 yeast to up the sweetness a bit -- mine is a bit too dry)

Mash aprox. 1 hour at 154F.

Ferment at 64F.
Bottle condition with 3/4 c. corn sugar
Bottle "lager" at 40F for three weeks.

OG: 1046
FG: 1013
Est. IBU: 41

 -Steve in Indianapolis





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:54:05 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Dunkelweizen

 Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> wrote:

>Jeff writes:
>>They are also bringing in
>>Dunkelweizenmalz, that is, dark wheat malt, which should make it possible
>>to make Dunkelweizenbier without any roasted malt, especially with the dark
>>Munich, just like in Germany.
<snip>
>it's
>important to remember that very few Dunkelweizens in Germany have any
>roasty character at all (I tasted a good dozen Dunkelweizens and only
>one or two had a noticeable roasty character).  Finally, the traditional
>way to make a Dunkelweizen is not with dark wheat malt, but rather
>pale wheat malt and Munich malt.  Most Dunkelweizens really taste like
>a cross between a Weizen and a Munchner Dunkel (traditionally made with
>100% Munich malt).

Several points here.  I agree that a roast malt flavor is generally
inappropriate in a Dunkelweizen, which is why I made the above post. I
don't know what is "a traditional way to make Dunkelweizen."  Warner says
(p. 24) they are "made using dark barley or wheat malts, dark caramalts,
color malts or colored beer."  Perhaps Hubert Hanghofer can shed more light
on this (I've cc'd him).

But if, as you say, dark wheat malt is not traditional for this style, how
else are you going to get an appropriate dark color (10-23L according to
Warner) and avoid roasted malt, especially for the darker end of the range?
Spencer Thomas posed this very question several years ago here.   After
all, with 70% of the grist bill a very pale wheat malt (1.8L according to
Zymurgy's 1995 grain issue), even using dark German Munich malt (16L -
again from Zymurgy) for the 30% balance is likely to yield only an amber
color (a notoriously inaccurate but perhaps sufficient straight arithmetic
average of degrees Lovibond for 1.5 lbs/5 gallons suggests 9L; I'd *guess*
10-12L with kettle darkening).  Regular Munich at 8L will obviously be that
much lighter (5.5L by straight average).  The use of sufficient caramalt
would introduce what I consider too much of a caramel flavor.

Since we agree that roasted malt is out, at least in any noticeable amount,
then Dunkelweizenmalz seems to be the answer.  What else would you use it
for?  As you say, using Munich malt (Dunkelmalz) is the traditional way to
brew a Bavarian Dunkel, and it would seem that using a similarly colored
wheat malt (8L) would be the way to brew the wheat counterpart,
Dunkelweizen.  Using just averages, dark wheat malt and regular Munich
yields 12L, and dark wheat and dark Munich yields 15.6L.  Add kettle
darkening and now we're getting somewhere!

BTW, I just brewed a Dunkel from 100% dark Durst Munich malt using 14
lbs/7.5 gallons.  I mashed at 64C to 60C, boosted to 70C, then mashed off.
Got 30 p*g/p for 1.056.    Even after racking and diluting to fill a 1/4
bbl (7.75), I'm going to have a strong beer than I planned.  It tasted
great going into the fermenter.  No caramel (thank you).  I'll report on
the finished product.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:37:46 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: [Fwd: Ice usage in Cincinnati breweries]

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:46:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net>
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To: kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us
Subject: Ice usage in Cincinnati breweries
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Jim,

As a Cincinnati native, and one who worked in a winery in the early 1970's
that as located in an old brewing lagering cellar, I thought I could
answer this question.

Yes, indeed, ice was used for lagering beer in pre-refridgeration days in
Cincinnati.  Many of the breweries were located along the old Central
Canal (Now Central Parkway).  Aside from the obvious advantage of being on
a major transportation system, the breweries cut ice from the canal in the
winter, and used it to lower the temps in the underground cellars.

I worked for a short-lived operation called Fountain Wine Cellar.  The
winery was located in the old Bruck's Brewing building at the north end of
the Canal/Parkway.  The above-ground portion was occupied by other sorts
of businesses, and the winery was in the cellar, about 35 feet
underground.  Stone construction, vaulted ceiling, very picturesque.  But
w/o heavy equipment, it was a back-breaker.  All out cooperage had to be
lowered via a hoist, then hand-carried to the stillage.  Large wooden
tanks were carried in one stave at a time, then the coopers re-assembled
the tanks in the cellar.  Stanless secondary fermenters were custom built
& welded on-site.  All this sstuff may still be setting down there.

Anyway, the Brucks Brewery closed sometime after prohibition.  In the
course of a little research, one of the winery owners came across pictures
of ice-cutting in the canal in the mid-1800's.  The ice chunks were
wrapped in straw, then moved to the cellars.  Even w/o ice, our winery
seemed to average about 54 deg F.

The Hudepohl-Schoeling brewery (now owned by Jim Koch) is at the other end
of the parkway.  Burger Brewing used to be down that end too, until H-S
took them over.  I've got a book that catalogues all the old breweries
that operated in Cincinnati.  I can't recall how many were on the canal or
very close by, but it was several.  And the old Bavarian Brewery (site of
the just-closed BrewWorks) was just a couple of blocks from the Ohio River
on the Kentucky side.  I think Hudepohl used to be on the river, too,
until they merged with Schoenling.

- --Paul Edwards
  residing in Indianapolis, IN, but don't you dare call me a Hoosier ;-)









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---