HOMEBREW Digest #2889 Tue 01 December 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Phil's Non Phloating false botton ("Rick Wood")
  re: 240V service, I need a neutral (John_E_Schnupp)
  re: Phil's Phloating False Bottom (John_E_Schnupp)
  The Beginner ("NFGS")
  ABT's Comp-U-Brew RIMS ("Chuck Bernard")
  Milk alternative (how to affix my lables) (Nathan Kanous)
  CO2 & ZUD (Tom Clark)
  clipart search! (Rich Byrnes)
  Phil's Phalse Bottom (Dan Listermann)
  Burnt Beer (was Victory HopDevil bitter-sweet) (Charley Burns)
  modeling grain (Paul Niebergall)
  Re: Phloating Phalse Bottom (Robert Arguello)
  Sweet CAP (Jeff Renner)
  potassium sorbate in cider ("silent bob")
  ABG Courses ("Jeff Beinhaur")
  Phil's Phloater ("Spies, Jay")
  Excel spreadsheet ("silent bob")
  Removable bottle labels (Gail Elber)
  diacetyl and Wyeast 1056 ("Victor Farren")
  Re: Beginners Stuff (j miller)
  Re: Pronunciations continued (ulfin)
  reply to: Phil's Phloating False Bottom (Herbert Bresler)
  Oatmeal Stout / RIMS vs. HERMS (MaltHound)
  Old Style; lambic (" Scott Perfect")
  Stroh's continued ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Does Oxygenation with O2 increase lag time? ("William W. Macher")
  brewing calc.. (Badger Roullett)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:39:36 +1100 From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com> Subject: Phil's Non Phloating false botton Hi Jeff and the HBD, I have used a Phil's Phalse bottom in a 10gal Gott for several years and have never had a problem with it floating. I use a piece of very stiff Polyethylene Tubing (or Polypropylene, can't remember for sure) from the Phalse Bottom Fitting to my Gott Fitting. The stiffness of the tubing keeps the false bottom on the bottom. I had also considered using Stainless or Copper Tubing for this, but the PE seems to be working. I was afraid that at the increased temps of the mash it would soften to much, but it seems not to. I stir without worry through most of the mash with additions of hot water to maintain and to equilibrate temps. It is my opinion that "Phil" takes unfair criticism regarding the floating of his device. It seems that it was designed as a cheap/inexpensive part for a zap pap type masher. It's price in it's main advantage over a SS false bottom and I always thought I would replace it with SS but I always find something more important to expend the money on, rather than something that is working very well. Regards, Rick Wood "Brewing on Guam" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 02:14:00 -0800 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: re: 240V service, I need a neutral Dana's problem is: >I have recently moved into a condo and both my wife and I are very glad to >have all of my brewing stuff moved into a garage. Unfortunately, the housing >association feels that my brewing, using a propane burner, in my garage >doorway (as far out as parking lot traffic will allow) is a safety hazard. I >disagree as I am very careful but I can see their point. I disagree too. How many of them have grills on their decks or in their garages that they wheel out? A grill is just as much a hazard as your burner. Maybe more, have you ever seen a really good grease fire? Back in college we had grease fires where the flames would be up and thru the exhaust hood. What about the smoker who burns down the house by tossing hot butts in the trash (it happens more frequently that you think)? >The problem began when I actually examined the wiring the other day. Here is >what I found. The service into the electrical box consisted of an insulated >cable with three wires inside >1) bare copper: presumably ground >2) black wire: 119.9 V to ground >3) "white wire": covered with black tape to appear black 118.9 V to ground. >Wires 2&3 are 210V w.r.t. each other. This sounds all wrong to me, really wrong. AFAIK, there should be 4 wires (at 30A I think the wire should be 10-3). The colors should be black, red, white, green (or bare) in 10-3 wire. It really sounds like you are missing a wire. It would be that they are using the bare wire as the neutral but that is plain stupid (and I don't think it would be to code, at least I'd never wire anything that way). If the bare wire is being used as the neutral there should be an earth ground on the furnace somewhere. I'd have this checked out by a qualified electrician. As for re-wiring, I'm surprised that they didn't put a 20A circuit in the garage. A lot of power tools can draw 15-20A, especially on start-up due to inductive loading. Assuming your electrical box is in the garage, it shouldn't be too expensive to re-wire. Get an estimate. I'd install 2, 20A circuits, this is assuming that you have an extra slot in you electrical box. However, simply adding another 15A circuit to your garage should work too (I only say 20A based on my use of power/woodworking tools). Use one circuit for each heater coil. If the two boxes are next to each other everything should be great. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 02:15:32 -0800 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: re: Phil's Phloating False Bottom Jeff, >Does anyone have solution to a Phil's Phalse Bottom that floats in a >Rubbermaid Cooler ? Back some ago I saw a post that said to screw down the >false bottom. I was thinking about doing that, however I'd think about too. You'll be puncturing holes in the plastic. I'd say a leak would be a problem, unless you sealed the holes, then you couldn't remove the bottom to clean it. I've never used one of these so I don't know how tight they fit. If it is a close fit but just not snug, maybe you could slit some tubing and wrap it around the edge of the Phalse bottom. I'd think that this bottom would only be prone to floating before the grain was mixed in. Another option might be to weight it somehow. Maybe a piece of copper tubing around the edge or a couple of big SS nuts (4 is a good number) around the edge. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:46:40 -0800 From: "NFGS" <fjrusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: The Beginner Jim Miller / British Columbia, Canada wrote: '...there are many different ways to do things, ending in a similar result, but i'm getting confused at this point.' Jim, you did not mention if you had purchased a good book on home brewing or not. That is where you need to start. This is exactly how I felt when I first wanted to brew beer after making wine for 2 years. I found a book by Dave Miller - Complete Handbook of Home Brewing and keep it by my side all the time. There are others and maybe even better ones but I went for fundamentals as it sounds like you are looking for. I asked this same question months ago and here is one of the many answers I received: 'Get "Homebrewing - Vol. 1" by Al Korzonas. It starts at the beginner level, but provides plenty for the intermediate to advanced brewer. The Papazian books are most recommended, but many in the HBD feel they contain errors and bad advice. Al's book is the only that I have seen that gives info on specific brands of yeast and grains, and extensive coverage of the different types of hops.' If you are receiving HBD you will often see posting from Al. The web is good for recipes and advanced techniques, BUT GET a good book! Enjoy Frank fjrusso at coastalnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:03:16 -0600 From: "Chuck Bernard" <bernardch at mindspring.com> Subject: ABT's Comp-U-Brew RIMS Has anyone out there either purchased or have any experience with the Comp-U-Brew RIMS system offered by Advanced Brewing TEchnology, located in Grayslake Illinois. I'm considering one of these as my own personal Christmas Present and am looking for some users or other references before I plunk down the $$$. Anyone interested can view a description of the Comp-U-Brew at the Advanced Brewing Web site http://www.advancedbrew.com/rims.html Public posts or private replies are OK. I will summarize any private correspondence received for the group. Chuck Bernardch at mindspring.com Music City Brewers, Nashville TN - Music CityUSA http://www.theporch.com/~homebrew Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:06:34 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Milk alternative (how to affix my lables) I have to vote one time myself for the trusty old glue stick. Easy to use, labels come off easily, no running / bleeding of the ink. Now, if you get the labels wet otherwise, all bets are off. Using laser printed labels or hitting the local print shop for color copies would alleviate that problem. Again, I can't think of anything much simpler than a glue stick. nathan in Madison, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:20:45 -0500 From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com> Subject: CO2 & ZUD Just a couple of ideas... If you want to get rid of rust stains use a product called "ZUD". It comes in the form of a scouring powder and works really well on ceramics and stainless. Also, I am trying out an idea... While my beer is fermenting in the plastic primary, there is a hose connected from the top of the airlock over into an empty carboy. When it is ready to rack, the carboy should be at least partially purged with CO2. Tom Clark Southeast of the Ohio River - a long way from Jeff Renner. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:38:27 -0500 From: Rich Byrnes <rbyrnes2 at ford.com> Subject: clipart search! AArrgghhhhh, a fatal hard drive crash not only lost a bunch of IMPORTANt stuff, but a ton of fun stuff as well. I've done well to recover most of my lost "stuff" But I'm missing a great clipart of Santa hoisting a cold one, in full color. I found a clipart called santa13 that is in black and white (a closeup headshot) but I really really want that full colored full bodied santa with a mug or bottle. I'm sure this would be of interest to many people on the list, so If you have an URL please post it to the list, but I would gladly accept the file via e-mail if some kind sould would send it to me, thanks!!! I have searched the "brewery" archives as thats the only source I know of for beer clipart, is there more sites? Rich Byrnes Founder & lame duck president Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen rbyrnes2 at ford.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:07:00 -0500 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Phil's Phalse Bottom Jeff Gray writes: <Does anyone have solution to a Phil's Phalse Bottom that floats in a Rubbermaid Cooler ? Back some ago I saw a post that said to screw down the false bottom. I was thinking about doing that, however I am not sure that I want to put holes in my cooler. I would also think this might be a area for bacteria to grow. Any ideas, or is the screws ok ?> I am pretty sure that I have, at least, the longest experiance with Phil's Phalse Bottoms. If used correctly, there is no need to hold them down except perhaps when using them as a mash / lauter tun during the strike. I usually seperate the mash from the lauter so this is not a problem. The weight of the mash holds the bottom down very well. Since the Phalse Bottom is very close to the cooler's bottom, foundation water is not necessary and there is no floating. When using the cooler as a mash / lauter tun one may want to hold the bottom down with a long object such as a stirring spoon or a stick during the strike at the beginning. I strike using a pan of water followed by a pan of grist stirring in between. If the mash gets too thick, I add an extra pan of water. If too thin, an extra pan of grist. I consider it poor form to add all the water to the cooler before adding the grist. It is hard on the enzymes, you lose some control of the consistancy of the mash and the bottom is hard to control. Another method which I have tried is to put all the grist into the lauter tun first. Add the strike water to the grist by way of the Phalse Bottom's output. IOW underlet the strike water. When the water reaches the top of the grist, it will need to be stirred to even out the temperatures. Frankly I don't bother with this, but it works. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 98 08:00 PST From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) Subject: Burnt Beer (was Victory HopDevil bitter-sweet) >From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net> <big snip> >I've brewed this with OGs from 1044 to 1055. The lower OG >produces a mellower beer that is more drinkable. FG is usually >around 1015. <snip> >Best results to-date came from an infusion at 148F, followed in >20 minutes by a decoction (30 minute boil), returned for a final >rest at 152F. <snip> >Again if anyone can suggest a method to introduce a burnt flavor >note to this beer I would appreciate it. <snip> >From Dangerous Dave's (Sapsis) book of Rauchdunkel, add a second decoction, but don't stir it, just boil it for about 20 minutes and then toss it back into the mash for mashout. I think Jeff Renner coined the phrase "right after the sugars carmelize, they carbonize". The trick will be, how long to carbonize to give it just the right "burnt" character. Charley (thinking about tub brewing again) in N. Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:04:57 -0600 From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: modeling grain Guy Gregory confirms with his use of MODFLOW that Darcy*s law is applicable to evaluating fluid flow through a grain bed. However, I have one minor comment concerning the values chosen for porosity (total and effective). In my experience, a value of 30 percent is *the* typical default value chosen for porosity when no test data is available. Although, I do not have the data to back it up, the total and effective porosities of crushed grain is probably much higher than 40 percent and 30 percent, respectively. When comparing grain size to naturally occurring geologic materials, something along the lines of a peat rather than a sandstone would probably be more appropriate. Anyway, the porosity value used in the model is a moot point since MODFLOW does not use porosity (total or effective) as an input parameter and the final head distribution will be the same regardless of the porosity values chosen. Similarly, different porosity values will affect the magnitude of the velocity vectors, but not the flow distribution. I suspect that the model was created with some type of pre- and post-processing software (Vistas or Visual MODFLOW?) that requires porosity values for velocity and transport calculations. Good work Guy. Any plans on running MT3D to simulate the extraction of sugar at different points within the grain bed? Paul Niebergall Kansas City Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:09:46 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Subject: Re: Phloating Phalse Bottom Jeff Grey wrote, asking for a solution to the problem of floating with his Phil's Phalse bottom: >Does anyone have solution to a Phil's Phalse Bottom that floats in a >Rubbermaid Cooler? >Jeff Grey I will attempt to describe how I overcame floating with Phill's phalse bottom.... I installed a bulkhead fitting in my gott/rubbermaid cooler, (http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/bulkdesc.htm). The phalse bottom was attached to the bulkhead by a length of BRAIDED vinyl hose. Imagine that when looking down into the cooler that the bulkhead is at 6:00 o'clock. Orient the fitting on the phalse bottom so that it is pointing to 9 or 10 o'clock. While the bulkhead itself is located at the 6 o'clock position, the hose attaches to a 45 degree hose fitting at the bulkhead. The 45 degree fitting is oriented so that the angle in a HORIZONTAL plane. In other words, the angle doesn't point UP or DOWN, but rather to the LEFT. When you attach a piece of braided hose from the phalse bottom to the bulkhead, the hose lays on top of the phalse bottom, (bottom left quandrant of the circle), and holds the plastic phalse bottom in position...no floating. I am not good enough with ascii to draw a diagram in this letter, but I will send a good diagram, (jpg or gif or bmp), to anyone who requests it. Before I switched over to my RIMS, I used gott cooler and phils phalse bottom for a mash/lauter tun for at least 100 batches and never had a problem with floating. Robert A. ******************************************************************** Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Corny kegs - Mahogany 6-pack carriers - ProMash Brewing Software http://www.calweb.com/~robertac ******************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:07:16 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Sweet CAP William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net> writes >I've brewed up two versions of CAP. One way too hoppy and >the second about right on the hops but sweeter than I remember. My thoughts >are to lose some of the maize and replace it with some rice or sugar, to >make the flavor less intense. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Mine have turned out sweeter than I remember old time beers, too. I like them, but I like a crisper beer as well. I know it can be done with corn - AABG member and former HBDer Hal Buttermore made a wonderfully crisp one. I think it was a single temperature infusion mash, probably 151-153F. My last time (step mash - I can't help myself) I paused between 140 and 158 at ~153 for 15-20 minutes and I think it helped make it a little crisper. It certainly was the best ever, but I always say this with this great style. I think corn has a sweetness about it that is more its flavor than actual residual sugars. I hope you can keep yourself from using sugar. I was so impressed with Dixie on my visit to the brewery last month (review to follow shortly) that I have decided to make my next CAP with rice. (That's heresy coming from me!) I love the corn contribution, but I figure I ought to know how rice does. It should let the malt come through more cleanly and should help me separate out the corn contribution from DMS, too, which comes from malt. I don't perceive DMS as creamed corn. Either I can't taste/smell it or I find it beery. I think the latter, as that's what I found Rolling Rock to be, and it is considered to be a DMS benchmark. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:26:18 PST From: "silent bob" <holdenmcneil at hotmail.com> Subject: potassium sorbate in cider In the last digest, Red reposted his question about his cider that won't ferment. Potassium sorbate works one of the two following ways, I got both explanations from equally reliable sources. Exp 1:It kills everything. Dead. Gone. The ramifications of this are obvious. Exp 2:It prevents yeast from being able to bud, but has little effect on bacteria, particularly lactobacillus. This seems plasible in your case since you had some evidence of fermentation, but it was feeble. Both sources indicated that you can get a marigold/geranium character when using sorbate. Source 1 said it is the sorbate itself, source 2 said that it comes from the metabolism of the sorbate itself by lactobacillus. Either way, I would guess that you are hosed. The amount of time that has passed would make me nervous about infection (botulism?), and in either case, getting this stuff to ferment will be nearly impossible. good luck, and try to find some unpreserved juice (local orchard??) Adam ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:33:50 -0500 From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com> Subject: ABG Courses Short time lurker, first time poster.... I was somewhat surprised to see the negative comments concerning the ABG courses. I attended the ABG Advanced Home Brewers course this past May in Baltimore. I had a very positive experience and I thought that it was money well spent. I had been an extract and partial mash brewer prior to taking the course and was able to learn enough to feel confident in switching to all grain and have never looked back. In fact, I am considering taking the class again since this class was geared to all grain brewing and therefore some topics were over my head at the time. I apologize that I cannot remember the names of the two course conducters (actually it was Mike and Darrin but last names escape me) but they were both experienced and active craft brewers. There were comments made about Budweiser but only in reference to the brewing techniques and consistency of the brew (even though it's rot gut). I would recommend the course although it may be a tad above an extract brewers knowledge. No affiliation, happy customer, yada, yada.... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:40:28 -0500 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: Phil's Phloater All - Jeff Grey asked about solutions for a Phils Phloater, and suggested screwing it down . . . Don't do it. You need to be able to remove the phloater for cleaning, and screws would additionally leak all into the foam lining. I'm taking the liberty of reprinting an article I wrote in HBD #2744 that has really worked for me. I was ready to pitch the damn thing until I stumbled onto this idea, and now the false bottom works flawlessly without floating or leaking husks. Hope it helps for you as well . . . >>>BTW, with a good number of folks talking about using 10-gallon Gotts and Phils Phloaters, I thought I would share a gadget hint that has been of tremendous value. I have continually had problems with the false bottom floating up at dough-in, leaking grains under the edge of the bottom and clogging up the works, even when I tried to manually hold the bottom down with a potato masher while simultaneously stirring and doughing in (there's a mental picture . . .) Compounding this problem is the fact that the Gott that I use has a small bump right in the middle of the bottom where the exit elbow sits, making it hard to get a flush fit. After many exasperating sparges where I had to blow into the outlet tube every 5 seconds or so to clear the damn thing, I finally found the perfect solution. Take exactly 35" of 3/4" ID vinyl tubing (this fits around the bottom diameter of the Phalse bottom and the cooler wall, leaving just enough room to fit in a stopper / bulkhead and outlet tubing. Get 2 #3 solid stoppers. Soak the tubing in hot water so it becomes pliable, and jam one of the stoppers completely inside the tubing. Fill the tubing with BB's. Stopper the other end in exactly the same manner. Place this "snake" around the outside of the Phalse bottom before adding your strike water, and dough in as usual. The weight of the snake holds the Phil's bottom down, and the width of the tubing ensures that there is a tight seal between the cooler wall and the edge of the Phalse bottom. The snake weighs about 7 pounds. The B-wine was the 1st batch that I used this for, and *not one* husk leaked through. I also got crystal clear runoff after about 2 pints of recirc. No water leaked into the tubing, so the BB's were dry, and didn't contaminate the mash. Try it, it works like a champ. Sorry for the b-width, just had to share this (for me) freak of discovery.<<< I've subsequently brewed about 15 batches with the BB snake, and have had consistent and reliable runoffs, and never a stuck sparge, even with a 100% wheat hefeweizen (rice hulls added, though). Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:41:57 PST From: "silent bob" <holdenmcneil at hotmail.com> Subject: Excel spreadsheet To the masses who have copies of my Excel spreadsheet: I haven't gotten some of the much anticipated feedback that I was counting on!! How is it working, if it sucks, let me know, I can take it. I hope everyone is enjoying it, and refining it for their needs. Anyway, I didn't keep a list of all of the recipients, so I decided to post an update here. In the water calculations portion, the formulas to calculate the makeup of the treated water is erroneous. The same cell is referenced for every ion, instead of the cell that corresponds to the particular ion being calculated. I don't remember the exact references, but it is the first cell referenced it the formula. You are all smart you will figure it out. Enjoy, and happy brewing! and give me some feedback!! Adam ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:41:21 -0800 From: Gail Elber <gail at brewtech.com> Subject: Removable bottle labels >I would love to hear some suggestions for a more viscous, water-soluble alternative to milk. Being more viscous would avoid the problem altogether. Sweetened condensed milk, diluted, is viscous and very sticky. Gail Elber Associate Editor BrewingTechniques P.O. Box 3222 Eugene, OR 97403 541/687-2993 fax 541/687-8534 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:37:48 -0500 From: "Victor Farren" <vfarren at smtp.cdie.org> Subject: diacetyl and Wyeast 1056 I have a question for the collective. I recently brewed a 10 gallon all grain batch of a fairly generic Pale Ale (OG 1.050, FG 1.010) which I split into two buckets for primary fermentation, and then to glass carboys for the secondary. Primary was for 1 week, and the 2ndary and dry hop was for 10 days. I bottled last night and noticed a distinct diacetyl presence. It was not very strong, but very noticeable. How can I get lower levels of diacetyl in my beer (I use 1056 b/c I want that 'clean' taste)? Here is what I did: fermented with 2 liters 1056 starter (split b/w 2 buckets). This was stepped up 3 times, then had to put in fridge for 1 week b/c something came up and couldn't brew right away. The day before I was ready to pitch I drained off fermented starter and added 1 pint of wort at 1.040, and pitched just after high krausen. I do not have access to pure oxygen so I aerated wort by splashing around vigorously. Beer fermented at steady 68F. Signs of fermentation witthin 12 hours. Got a steady fermentation, but the beer did not produce the thick level of krausen I have gotten in the past. It fermented down to 1.010 after a week (no problems here), and then racked to 2dary. Here is what I think: 1) Not enough O2 in wort led to increased diacytel production by yeast 2) Yeast may contain mutant strains that produce more diacetyl and don't absorb it well ( thinking that stepping up, and then keeping in fridge may have produced old, tired yeast--grasping for straws here--how likely do you think this is?) 3) Need to get dedicated fridge and ferment at lower temp. Anyone have any other suggestions This was an all grain wort so I definitely have enough FAN. Grain bill was 20 lbs Maris Otter 2 row 1 lb light crystal 1 lb dextrin malt 1 lb torrified wheat Thanks Victor Farren Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:01:47 -0800 From: j miller <cblues at canada.com> Subject: Re: Beginners Stuff Hi all! Many thanks for all the replies to my post! was quite amazed and gratified that you folks took the time out your schedules to bang me out an e-mail.......and they're still coming in at 10am pst... good brewing! - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* Jim Miller British Columbia Canada * Radio Station VE7JM ..._ . _ _... ._ _ _ _ _ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:00:04 -0500 From: ulfin at mail.portup.com Subject: Re: Pronunciations continued "Brad McMahon" <brad at sa.apana.org.au> > >In HBD #2885 Guy Gregory asked: >>Now, is Saaz pronounced "Saws" (like handsaws) or "Saaz" (like Utah >>Jazz), or otherwise? > >Otherwise! I've not it heard pronounced either way. >In German the double a is pronounced like a long a in English, >as in car, far, and guitar. The s is pronounced as a z >so the the word sounds like: zarz. The "ar" pronounciation of broad a is a peculiarity of Australian English. Most others pronounce it as "ah". (Dialectical differences used to drive me nuts. The dictionary I used as a kid said that the circumflex o was the vowel sound in "pot". Not so in American English; we have it in "dog" [at least where I grew up] but not in "pot".) In German, "a" is pronounced "ah", and double a is similar, but a bit broader. English lost lengthened vowels soon after the Norman Conquest. The Germans would pronounce "Saaz" as "zahtz", but I doubt that the word is German. I don't know Bohemian pronounciation rules. (That is not to say that that actually *is* how Germans pronounce it, just that that's how *would* pronounce it if they used German pronunciation rules on it.) I used to assume that all brewing terminology was German, so for years I pronounced it "zahtz", but now I pronounce it "sahz" (not "sawz", "sazz", or "zarz"), for no particular reason other than that people are more likely to understand what I'm saying. BTW, the Germans call Australia "OWZ-trahl-ee-en" (or sometimes "owz-TRAHL-ee-en"). So, is "FAWS-tahs" *really* "aws-TRAYL-yin for bee-uh"? On the subject of pronouncing "kraeusen", there is not an extra "ah" sound stuck in before the "oy". "AE" is a single vowel (equivalent to "a" with an umlaut [direses {dang, I'm sure I spelled that wrong}]). When an umlaut is not available, an umlauted vowel is indicated by putting an "e" after it (there are some exceptions, it seems that "Goethe" is always writtens without the umlaut regardless of availability). Here's a brief High German pronunciation guide for speakers of English: Consonants--as in English, except: c seldom used alone in German except in imported words, so pronunciation can vary g always hard, like in "Gieger counter" (not like "giraffe"), except ending words in "-ig" (pr. like German "-ich") j like "y" as in "Yumping Yack Flash" q rare r sometimes rolled or uvulated, just pronoucing it as in English is close enough s usually like "z", but sometimes like "sh" (especially in cluster at beginning of words), and sometimes like "ss" at the end of a word v always like "f" w always like "v" (even in cluster) z always like "tz" (compare "sins" and "since" and you get the difference), even at the beginning of a word "ess-tzet" (looks like a Greek capital beta) equivalently written as "ss"--pronouced like hard "s" in English (like the second "ss" in "possess", not the first). I don't think it ever appears at the beginning of a word Consonant Clusters (there are probably more, but these are the ones that came to mind) ch don't even try it; just substitute "sh" sch like "sh" schw like "shv" ("schwarz" is "shvahrtz") st- like "sht-" ("stoff" is pronounced "shtohf") th often like "d", usually like "thank", not "that" Vowels a "ah" as in "father" (not "aw" as in "paw"), sometimes like "uh" (schwa) in unaccented syllables e "ay" as in "Bay Watch", sometimes pronouced very short like it is in English "yet" i "ee" as in "feed me beer", sometimes pronounced very short like it is in English "bin" o always "oh" as in "photo" u "oo" as in "food" (not "ew" or "yoo"), sometimes pronounced very short like it is in English "rum" Umlauted Vowels ae sometimes as in "cat", sometimes like "peg", but not quite either (also written as "a" with an umlaut) oe sometimes "ih" as in "hiccup", sometimes as "o" in "world" (but no "r" sound)--this is a tough one for English speakers; just use "oh" or "ih" (also written as "o" with an umlaut) ue kinda like "ew" in "Eeew! This beer's infected" (also written as "u" with an umlaut). Dipthongs and vowel clusters aa "ah", but a little broader ai "I" like "bye" ao "ow" as in "mouse" (this one might not exist; I can't think of any examples) au "ow" as in "mouse" ee "ay" (perhaps a little longer?) ei "I" like "bye" eu "oy" as in "boy" ie "ee" like "feed me beer" (this is not an umlauted vowel) oo as "oh", but slightly longer (Note on "ei" and "ie" that they are pronounced like the second letter's name in Enlish: "Aye" and "Ee". Some Yiddish pronunciations reverse this just to confuse you [perhaps it's an Americanization; I don't know]. But unless you're a He-brewer, you'll likely not need to pronounce many Yiddish brewing terms.) Spelling and pronunciation is far more consistent in German than in English (fewer exceptions to rules). Accent almost always falls on the first syllable (imported words commonly use their native accent, or are accented on the second, last, or secon-to- last syllable). BTW, it's "RYN-hytz-geh-boht", not "ryn-HYTZ-geh-baht" >Brad. >A long way from Jeff Renner, unless he is holidaying in Adelaide, >Australia. Dan Butler-Ehle A long way from Jeff Renner, unless he is vacationing in da U.P. KRAEUSENERS Homebrew Club: Keweenaw Real Ale Enthusiasts United for Serious Experimentation in Naturally Effervescent Refreshment Science Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:42:56 -0500 From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu> Subject: reply to: Phil's Phloating False Bottom In HBD#2888, Jeff Grey asked about how to sink a Phil's Phloating False Bottom: To Jeff and everyone: I have seen this issue raised several times in recent months, some have even suggested that this is a fatal design flaw in the Phil's False Bottom. IMO, there is no need for complicated solutions to this "problem." The first time I used it, I noticed that the false bottom floated up a little. So the next time I used it, and every time since then, I made sure to first add a thick layer of mashed grain onto the false bottom before I add the rest of the mash. This effectively weighs down the false bottom. I have not had any floating ever since. I routinely use the Phil's False Bottom. It works great, clear wort, no stuck sparges, inexpensive, easy to use and clean, etc. No affiliation - just a happy customer. Good luck and good brewing, Herb Bexley, Ohio Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:16:13 EST From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: Oatmeal Stout / RIMS vs. HERMS In HBD 2888 Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> suggests a recipe for making an Oatmeal Stout to "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>. Ted wrote: <<...5 lbs. Pale Malt 3.5 lbs. Munich Malt 1 lb. Roast Barley At sparge: 2 Oz. Chocolate & 2 Oz. Black Patent...>> Why not just mash the Chocolate and Patent malt too? I always do. Also, I think a full lb of Roast Barley for an Oatmeal stout would be too much. I would suggest more chocolate and less roast barley for a mellower roasted flavor. and <<Mash separately 1 lb. oatmeal 1 lb. flaked barley. I use a protein rest at 125 degrees before raising to 150 and place this in top of the regular mash so it doesn't set as a glue near the bottom of the mash.>> You can't mash oatmeal and flaked barley separately since they have no enzymatic power at all. What this would result in is oatmeal which is very difficult to lauter. If for some reason one insisted on mashing them apart from the main mash you would need to do so with a portion of the barley malt to provide the required enzymes. I have made quite a few Oatmeal Stouts (it's one of my fav styles) and I always mash the flaked grains with the rest of the malts (all together). I typically will perform a temperature step mash (132-154-165) but a single infusion mash would work as well. Here's a good recipe I've used a few times, scaled to 5 gallons: 7.5 lbs. British Pale Ale malt 3/4 lb. Flaked Oats 3/4 lb. Flaked Barley 1/2 lb. Roast Barley 6 oz. Choc Malt 4 oz. Patent Malt 30 IBU of Northern Brewer hops (full boil) OG should be ~1.050-54 Mash it all together (either step or single infusion as above). I use Wyeast Irish Ale yeast but any of the UK yeast strains should be OK. ************************** On another topic, several posts in the last year or so have advocated the superiority of some sort of HERMS<tm> type set-up over the electrically heated RIMS (no <tm>). I have read repeatedly that some think that the electric element may overheat the wort and prematurely denature enzymes. I do not see how using a heat exchange coil immersed in the HLT would eliminate this possibility. In fact, I would say that it could actually increase the likelyhood of this occuring. In my electric RIMS, the wort exiting the heater chamber is only a few degrees higher than the wort at the entrance. While I don't have a HERMS<tm> type set-up to play with, I would imagine based on my experiences using an immersion chiller that the wort exiting the heat exchanger would be very close to the temperature of the water in which it is immersed. Since one of the supposed advantages of HERMS is faster temperature step ramping, one might imagine that the HLT is held at a fairly high temperature to accomplish this. Unless the temperature of the HLT is regulated and monitored closely, it would appear that more thermal stress would be placed on the enzymes via the heat exchanger than with an electric heater chamber. The one other standard knock against an electric element is the potential for scorching of the wort. I have yet to have had this occur, but I do have a low heat density element and keep the wort flow fairly high at all times when the heater is on. It is a possibility, but not an insurmountable one IMO. Regards, Fred Wills Successfully RIMSing Oatmeal Stouts... and other beers in Londonderry, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:39:04 -0800 From: " Scott Perfect" <perfect at marzen.llnl.gov> Subject: Old Style; lambic Re: the debate on Stroh vs. Old Style. Heileman began a commercial campaign in the Chicago area back in the early 80's that talked about how all other brewers short-step the brewing process and that _they_ were the only brewer that brews the old fashioned way. They referred to Old Style as "fully krauesened," a phrase that has always hit me like fingernails on a chalkboard - and it's engraved in my memory. I cannot say that Stroh did _not_ refer to krauesening, but Heileman sure did. In HBD 2888 Paul asks about a film forming at the top of his recently bottled p-lambic. My solution was simply to shake the bottles a bit to sink the film. That was the end of it. A tangent: A few months back I visited Beverages and More and found all the lambics at discounted prices. Naturally, I snapped up the gems of the lot but feared what this signaled. Sure enough, the Belgian selection has shrunk to a small fraction of what it had been. In fact, the entire beer section is occupying perhaps half the floor space that it held at one time. Is the Belgian fad reaching an end? Will I have to live without Cantillon??? Scott Perfect Livermore, CA. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:05:52 -0800 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: Stroh's continued Jeff Renner wrote: >>> >(And wasn't it Stroh's that made a big deal about >>> >being fire-brewed? As if gas flame versus electric >>> >heat makes a difference... >> >>...Being a larger >>brewery, I'd imagine the kettles and/or processes were designed to prevent >>unwanted caramelization, so the point still becomes a big "so what?" in >>terms of their advertising gimick... > >Evidently, a young Stroh some years ago (pre WWI, maybe last century) >visited the old country as sons of German-American brewers did and found >that old traditional breweries were using direct fired kettles. He thought >it made an important difference - the slight caramelization, apparently. Now I see there's a beer that claims to be "frost brewed". How do you think they hit their strike temperature using frost? Isn't it funny how much trouble those big breweries go to in order to convince us that colder is better. I'm suprised they don't stock their beer in the freezer section... >Where can I get a site glass? Hey, that would be cool. An HBD pint galss that says "...take me to your lager" Sign me up. Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA, way way west of Jeff Renner... Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:41:47 From: "William W. Macher" <macher at telerama.lm.com> Subject: Does Oxygenation with O2 increase lag time? Hi all, Perhaps the following might be of interest to those that have not yet used oxygen for wort aeration...and harvest some helpful pointers from our experienced brothers... I am new to using O2 for oxygenation. Prior to the last three batches (two beer and one mead), my standard procedure was to first beat the cooled wort with a French whip, while it was still in the kettle, and then to drop it (with some vigor) from the end of the siphon tube into a carboy, before (or sometimes after) pitching the yeast. My setup for oxygenation is a 20 lb oxygen tank, a welding regulator, and an aquarium air stone. I have such an abundance of O2 with this system, that I have been letting the O2 gas flow for six or more minutes ( removing some foam as it comes out of the carboy...). I am not sure of the flow rate, but expect that it is more than satisfactory. These last brews were pitched with liter starters. What has surprised me is that lag times appear to have increased, over what I experienced with my former methods. I used to get something like 4 to 8 hour starts. With the O2 oxygenated batches, it looks like it is now 12 hours or more. I might be a little off in the exact timing, so to say it another way: It seems to take about 50% longer to get to a point where I am sure lag time has ended :-) I do not recall seeing mention of oxygenation with pure O2 (as pure as welding O2 may be) leading to lengthened lag times. Is this normal? Have others using O2 had the same experience? My speculation is that with much more oxygen in the wort, the yeast are going through more growth phases, and consequently the elapsed time between pitching and production of CO2 has increased. Am I close? Once activity starts it seems to proceed normally, as would be expected. Another question. Does it make any practical difference if yeast is pitched before aeration, versus after? My guess is that it does not... Long live the HBD! Bill Macher Pittsburgh, PA USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:41:18 -0800 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: brewing calc.. Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:37:02 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: [Fwd: An idea for computerized recipe exchange] > You did mention a recipe CALCULATOR. What is this. What sort of > calculations are being performed with respect to the recipe. Could you > give me an example of a few of these programs. What data is being > provided. Is the data a part of the standard recipe information of > item, quantity and units or is there other information to be included. My personal favorite is ProMash. its cheaper than most of the ones out there, and its more functional as far as i can tell. I am a satisfied cust, no affiliation.etc. http://www.promash.com badger *************************************************** Brander Roullett aka Badger Homepage: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven "It had to be a linguistics professor who said that it's man's ability to use language that makes him the dominant species on the planet. That may be. But I think there's one other thing that separates us from animals. We aren't afraid of vacuum cleaners." --Jeff Stilson Return to table of contents
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