---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Kentucky Common Beer (Dan Listermann)
  Classic Beer Style Books ("Marc Battreall")
  Re:  Fries ("Andrew T. Lynch")
  temp steps/milling/another aha benefit (Jim Liddil)
  Voting the county dry (Jack Schmidling)
  Haughty Europeans (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  Grain mills (John Wilkinson)
  Re: The speed of change at the AHA ("Brian Rezac")
  Yeast Culturing ("Scott Church")
  A tasting Question (John Adsit)
  thank you (Timo Peters)
  AHA Membership... (pbabcock)
  No-sparge Data Point (Kyle Druey)
  Brew room setup ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Re:Paul Gatza's fable (Steve Jackson)
  Kentucky Common Beer (Steve Jackson)
  Re: GA and the 6% Limit ("Mark Nelson")
  Re: Legalization Response (Jeff Renner)
  Re: HBD SUPPORT CHALLENGE!! (Jeff Renner)
  Pretty Amylase molecules (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  bottles (Jason.Gorman)
  Re: Kalamazoo Brewing / Bell's Beer yeast (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  A Hair-brained Idea? ("William W. Macher")
  I would like this info too.... ("Dawn Watkins")
  Re:: Legalization Response ("Bill Giffin")
  Disaster preparedness in the microbrewery (Gail Elber)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:49:52 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Kentucky Common Beer


Steve Jackson asks:
<Does anybody out there know of another online location for the
Wahl-Henius American Handy book of Brewing, Malting and Auxillary
Trades?

Alternately, if anyone has a copy of the book themselves and would be
kind enough to send me a copy of the information I'm seeking (I'm
researching Kentucky Common Beer),  >

This is what they say:

Common beer is brewed chiefly in Louisville, Ky.  Its color is dark, 
being
about the same color as that of average Bavarian beers.  The beer should
possess a pronounced malt flavor, be full to the palate, of somewhat 
sweet
taste, and mild in character.  Besides these properties as to taste, the
beer should have a slight but characteristic bacteria taste and flavor,
which can be obtained by employing a yeast containing a moderate number 
of
bacteria of the rod-shaped variety.  If a yeast with a too large number 
of
bacteria is used, this taste may become too pronounced, which not alone
would make the product obnoxous, but also endanger its brilliancy and
stability.  To obtain the desired results, the yeast should contain about
 2
per cent of such bacteria  ( 20 bacteria per 1000 yeast cells ).  


MATERIALS EMPLOYED.  -  Pale barley malt and 25 to 35 per cent of corn,
either grits or corn flakes, are employed, together with some colorant, 
as
a rule, caramel and black malts, but also sugar coloring, to give the
desirable depth of color.

Hops:  1/2 to 3/4 pound per barrel of wort in the cellar.

The Balling of the wort in the cellar varies from 10 to 12.5 per cent.

MASHING AND BOILING.  -  The general brew-house methods of mashing and
sparging and of boiling the wort in the kettle employed in the larger
common beer breweries are similar to those used in brewing lager beer.  
In
smaller plants, the methods vary greatly, both low and high inital
temperatures being taken.

FERMENTATION.  -  The wort is cooled to 12' R. and pitched with 1/2 to 
3/4
pound of yeast per barrel.   The temperature of the fermentation is 
allowed
to rise 16-17' R., the Krausen usually working out the rim of the
fermenter, due to the very vigorous fermentation.  The beer toward the 
the
close of fermentation is cooled to about 6' R. before racking into the 
chip
casks.

Duration of fermentation: 5 to 7 days.

FINISHING - Formerly, the beer after coming full into Krausen was
transfered directly into the trade packages, which were placed on troughs

into which the yeast and foam were allowed to work out.  The packages 
were
kept full continually by topping up every few hours.  After 48 hours in 
the
barrel, the fermentation was over, and the barrels were bunged ; when 
much
gas was desired, they were closed in 24 hours.  The beer was not fined, 
and
consequently had a "muddy" appearance.  However, by allowing the package 
to
stand for 2-3 days before tapping, a moderatly clear artical was 
obtained.

Most common brewers nowadays Krauesen the beer and clarify it by means of

chips and isinglass.  The beer is run directly from the fermenter to the
chip cask, and 15-20 per cent, and even more, Krausen added, fining and
bunging it immeditaly after Krausening.  As soon as the beer has aquired
the proper life and brilliancy, it is filtered and racked into trade
packages.

They give the specs on the average of two samples analysed in 1907.

Balling of beer:  4.68
Balling of wort:  12.18
Alcohol by weight: 3.06
Real extract:  6.12
Albuminoids: 0.420
Sugar:  2.32
Lactic acid: 0.068
Phosphoric acid: 0.050

The temperatures are in degrees Reaumur.  To convert to Fahrenheit 
multiply
it by 2.25 and add 32.

Dan Listermann   dan at listermann.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:00:10 -0500
From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: Classic Beer Style Books

Hello All,


I remember seeing a thread a while back regarding the Classic Beer Style
book series available through Brewer's Publications and the fact that the
size and format of the books changed after Book #10 to a smaller book with a
different cover style. I just recently received the entire series (#1-#14)
as a gift and to my dismay the first ten are one size and the last four are
another. I can't remember if anyone here at the HBD ever got any
satisfaction from the AHA/AOB/BP in this matter. I knew that the possibility
of this existed a few months back but was hoping that it was resolved and
the books would all be the same size. I know there were alot of you that had
the "mix & match" set and were mighty p.o'd about the size difference. I for
one, would not buy a set of encylopedia's if a-s were one size and t-z were
another as I feel certain that no one else would either. The fact that I
received mine as a gift, and at a reduced price for buying the entire "set"
should make no difference. I mean, afterall, it is advertised as a "complete
set".
My question is: Did anyone out there get this matter rectified? And if they
did, how? I plan on calling the AHA/AOB/BP directly but wanted to see if
anyone out there had any angles I could explore first before I call them and
make a big stink (which is probably inevitable).

Thanks in advance,

Marc




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Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:06:32 -0800
From: "Andrew T. Lynch" <drew at surefirev.com>
Subject: Re:  Fries


Apologies for the non-beer post....

  Ahh...Belgian Frittes.  I had the good luck to be sent to Belgium
for six months, some years ago.  Along with the amazing beer, they
make the _best_ french fries I have ever had, by far.  I wondered why
they were so good.

  So, one day I walked around behind the one of the ubiquitous
trailers in which they fry everything under the sun, and decoded the
Flemish on the barrel I found: "100% Beef Lard".

 -Drew

- -- 
Andrew T. Lynch, Chief Zymurgist, SureFire Verification (408)374-4100 x301


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:44:05 +0000
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: temp steps/milling/another aha benefit

I'd like to see the AHA put bakc issues on line.  Sure would beat the
crappy $5 photocopy of back issues they sent when I got some old issue fro
the early eighties

The only thing I would add to George Depiro's post is that there maybe
circumstances where one woudl want to do an intensive step mash.  This
would be dependent on the style of beer one is trying to make and the
ingredients involved. One must adjust things according to equipment,
ingredients time etc.  One sure isn't going to make an Asahi Super Dry
clone suing a single step  mash. :-)

Dave Burlet wrote:

> Also, on this subject, the use of an adjustable mill allows me to mill 
> the malt twice, first on a wider adjustment (0.080 I think) to crush the 
> grain coarsely and then the regrind thorugh a smaller nip ( 0.060 in, I
think).
> 
> This is actually faster than a single fine pass and gives the equivalent 
> of a four roll mill just like the big boys. Extraction efficiency and
> lautering is significantly improved over a single fine pass. A third pass
at >0.055  in will give you the equivalent of a six roll mill and the
preferrred 
> milling in the  brewing industry


Anybody who has read the hdb for any length of time knows that mills have
been debated more than clinitest or botulism.  Then again maybe I want some
ergot in my beer for that extra buzz.  Saint Elmos Fire.

Any way what is constantly being confused is particle SIZE distribution and
the particle make up distribution.  6 roll commercial mills use screens to
seperate the big particles from the small ones after they pass through each
set of rollers.  Thus the husks are removed after the first pass (in
theory) and are not passed through the next set of rollers.  This will give
one (in theory) a milled product that has little to no tan flour (as Paul
Smith called it at Siebels)

By passing all the grain through a mill multiple times one is subjecting
all the husks and endosperm to the rollers multiple times.  Yes one can
achieve the same size distribution but the make up of the size distribution
will be different from a multiple pass technique vs a true 6 roller mill.
Particularly in the small screen sizes one will see more husk material in
the multipass technique.  I bet people would be better off using a single
pass but prewetting the grain.  Siebels does this in their pilot brewery
and I have been doing it at home.  One uses about 1% of the grain wieght
for water addition.  I add the equivalnet of 1% weight water to a spray
bottle and then spray the grain as I stir it with a spoon in a bucket.
This has the added benefit of cutting down on the static cling of the husks
and dust, even though I mill outdoors.  Be sure to clean your mill rollers
if you are worried about corrosion, unless you have stainless rollers.


Jim Liddil


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:37:27 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Voting the county dry

"Brian Dixon" <mutex at proaxis.com>
 Re: Grain Mill

" I did the analysis and bought a Valley Mill and my question is "Why 
doesn't Jack make a better hopper....

You follow this question by wanting a cheaper mill.  I can give you
a 10 lb stainless hopper for only an additional $50.  We offer a 
Large Hopper Adapter which provides a 25 lb hopper for the serious
brewer.  The hopper we provide solves many engineering problems and
has served 10,000 users well for over 7 years.  The few that have
fallen apart have been cheerfully replaced so I am not sure just 
what you mean by a "better" hopper.

" and also sell his adjustable mill for the same price as the Valley 
Mill?"......

First of all, you have the question backwards.  We have been selling
our mill at the current price for about 6 years and consider it a
fair value.  If a competitor wants in, he has to charge less and I
am not about to react to everyone who has come out with a mill since
we did the pioneering.

But the real reason our mill costs more is because it costs more
to build a better mill.  Just for openers, the rollers are two 
inches longer and larger in diameter. Furhtermore they are made
from a single solid piece of steel and not cobbled together from
tubes and end pieces.  Our first 40 mills were made that way but
we abandoned the design as not up to our reliability standards.
It is the only mill on the market available with gearing, stainless 
rollers and hardened rollers.  Most importantly, it is the only mill
with a lifetime warranty and enough years of service to back it up.

" and "Why, in spite of there being many uses for it, do people keep 
defending single-setting mills.....

Because they work every bit as well as adjustable mills and I hereby
restate my challenge that anyone who can prove that beer made with
a fixed mill tastes any different from that made with an adjustable
mill, we be sent an adjustable mill as a prize.

" To me, most of the arguments come from people who have reason to be 
defensive rather than unbiased......

It's hard not to defend something that works.  There are over 5000
fixed mills out there now and we have upgraded exactly one and that
was to a guy who got his IRS refund check between ordering and 
actually using his mill.

" Dang!  Please don't turn this into a flame war.  I'm just trying
 to be honest.....

Like the guy who moved out of town after voting the town dry.

js

- -- 

Visit our WEB pages:     http://user.mc.net/arf

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday



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Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:35:19 -0500
From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com
Subject: Haughty Europeans

Brian Dixon taunts:

> Considering the fact that the US of A is not highly respected in Europe
> (we are crass and have no culture, we wear tennis shoes like little
> children, and our president keeps warming his willie for national news
> casts), then why would they copy something from the 1964 World's Fair
> in NEW YORK?

Perhaps the next time those same haughty Europeans are faced with one of
their own with ambitions of world domination (or perhaps, a mob of their
neighbors wanting to settle a centuries-old tribal vendetta) we just sit on
our unfashionable *sses here at home, and watch them work it out amongst
themselves.

Perhaps Mr. Dixon missed the memorial display at the Hall of Justice in
Brussels.  It was for the children who were victims of the sex and murder
ring operated (in part) by high level members of the Belgian government.

Perhaps Mr. Dixon missed the funeral for Francois Mitterand, attended by
his wife, mistress and "illegitimate" child.

Perhaps these haughty Europeans need to realize that they are not better,
only different (and brew some damned fine beers, too!)




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:34:12 -0600
From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Grain mills

Brian Dixon wrote regarding the JSP mill as opposed to the Valley:

>"Why doesn't Jack make a better hopper and also sell his
>adjustable mill for the same price as the Valley Mill?"

I have a Valley Mill and happy with it but in defense of the JSP Mill I
think it should be pointed out that the Valley, at least the older model
I have, has nylon bearings while the JSP uses more conventional metal
bearings that may be more durable.  Also, I believe the JSP mill drives
both rollers while the Valley uses a driven and a slave roller.  Since
the JSP mills have the rollers connected by gears adjusting the gap is
not as easy.  There are advantages in driving both rollers as I have
occasionally had my Valley quit grinding due to slippage.  Not having the
rollers connected, however makes it easier to adjust the gap.  Actually,
I find I never adjust the gap now that I have found the one that seems to
work best.

They are both good mills and I certainly have no complaints about my Valley
Mill.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - john.wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:30:17 -0700
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Re: The speed of change at the AHA

Brian Wurst wrote:

>In an organization with TWO employees (a Director and Administrator)
>change can be effected quite quickly, if not immediately.  Which one
>is impeding change? The most probable explanation is neither Paul nor
>Brian.
>
>My suggestion is to do what you think is right and damn the Board of
>Advisors and the AoB(=charlie).  If what you do isn't what they think
>is right, let them undo it after the fact.  If there is that much
>resistance to change (or lack of trust in your vision) then the AHA
is in
>far worse shape than what its detractors make it out to be.
>
>A true revolution begins when people who benfit most from the status
>quo step forward to champion the cause of changing the status quo.
>Brian, Paul - start a revolution!


Brian,

What I said was that change takes time, not that someone or group was
impeding change at the AHA.  Even some revolutions take time and, at
times, you may not even realize that a revolution has taken place, or
to what extent, until you can look at it in hindsight.

But the big flaw that I see in your rationale above is in your first
sentence, "In an organization with TWO employees (a Director and
Administrator) change can be effected quite quickly, if not
immediately."  It is true, there are two employees of the AHA, Paul
and I.  (For the purpose of discussion, let's omit the tremendous
amount of work contributed by the supporting departments of the AOB -
Customer Service, Events, Production, Marketing, etc.)  However, Paul
and I are not the AHA.  The AHA is an association of homebrewers.  All
the individual members/homebrewers make up the AHA.

Now the perception of the AHA being a few people in Boulder, Colorado
is very common.  I believe it's a continuation of the perception of
how the AHA did things in the past.   But if you look at Paul's and my
previous posts, you'll see that we both talked of moving the AHA to a
more member-driven organization.  The next member of the AHA's Board
of Advisors will be elected by the AHA members.  The details of Big
Brew '99 will be decided by the Big Brew '98 site directors.  This is
the revolution.  And this revolution has the blessing of the AHA Board
of Advisors, the AOB and Charlie.

It would be much easier, as you point out, for Paul and I to simply
make all the decisions and set them down as AHA policy.  It takes much
more effort and time to solicit and compile the ideas and requests
from our members and move in the direction that they want to go.  But
it's going to be worth it.  Instead of homebrewers thinking, "What has
the AHA done for me lately in my town or state?", those
homebrewers/members will BE the AHA in their town or state!

Now, Scott Abene wrote:
>The HBD is a powerful brewing force so what better a place to grab
>ideas for the AHA?

I love the HBD.  In the past, I've contributed homebrew information,
techniques, AHA information and even some of my personal recipes.  I,
absolutely, consider the HBD to be an excellent source of information.
I've had the privilege of meeting a good number of you and I'm proud
to call many of you, friends.  Paul and I will continue to ask for
your input and opinions.  However, it will be the AHA members that
will actually decide the direction through the AHA member-only section
of our website, Zymurgy survey responses, etc.

Some of the most outspoken people on this forum are AHA members and
have effected change.  Oftentimes, this change has been slow and I
have great respect for those brewers/members for their persistence.
And, while I don't mean for this to sound like a sales pitch, in
truth, if you really want to have a voice and help move the AHA in the
right direction, you need to be a member.  Changes are happening at
the AHA.  If you can't put your faith in that yet, keep checking your
hindsight until you recognize the revolution.  You will always be
welcome to be a part of it.

Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO  80302
303 447-0816, ext. 121
brian at aob.org        http://beertown.org



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Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:18:08 -0800
From: "Scott Church" <schurch at gte.net>
Subject: Yeast Culturing

Hi all,

I have a few questions about yeast culturing and the extraction of yeast
cells for my initial starter:

Should one try to scrape out the cell (from the slant)? I use "Knox" gelatin
for my solidifying agent and have found that those "little buggers" are in
there pretty good! It's seems that I must dig up a little solid to get my
cells. (is a little gelatin going to hurt anything?)

 ........I have read that one should pass the inoculation loop through a
flame before using, but I wasn't sure about the temp before actually
grabbing the cells.
(98 degrees F and above would kill them, right?)

Also, should one try to get as many cells as possible or just 1 nice little
area?

 ........................................................

I thought that I had read somewhere that you could pour a little sterile
wort in the slant and swish it around until the cells were suspended in the
solution. Again, I'm not sure what the best temp. would be?

Any help from some of you "yeast ranchers" would be much appreciated!

Scott
Tampa, Fl







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Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:22:18 -0700
From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us>
Subject: A tasting Question

I have only been brewing a few years, and I have never judged or been
judged (at least formally), so my palate is at an unschooled phase of
development still.  This message is addressed to the more schooled.

Last night, at the end of a long day and a dinner with a few nice Bass
draughts, I went out for some entertainment with some friends.  The
establishment served the microbrews from the Brewpub upstairs (The
Chophouse in Denver).  I started with a brown ale, and immediately felt
something was very wrong.  It was overly hoppy, and I thought it was
cascade I was tasting.  It tasted like SNPA with a LITTLE chocolate
malt.

I went on to their stout.  I swear it had the same hop character.  It
just wasn't right.

I did not try their Pale Ale.

Here's my question: is it possible these people have a basic pale ale
wort to which they just add a little dark malt flavorings to make the
different styles?  If so, why would they do it?  What would be the
advantage to them?  Bulk hop purchase discounts?

If not, what does their stout taste like SNPA with a tan?

Or were my taste buds numbed by the fine Bass experience preceding it?
- --
John Adsit
Boulder, CO
jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us




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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:06:01 +0100
From: Timo Peters <tpeters at zfn.uni-bremen.de>
Subject: thank you

hello american brewers!

I would like to thank you everybody who gave me these
useful advices. For all the private mails and the ones published
here in the hbd.

Most of the answers had been heterogeneous but do confirm my
assumptions with two new facts:
1) thermometer reading might be wrong
2) mash on after jodine reaction is negative because jodine
    reaction only means that there is no starch anymore but there
    could be large amounts of unfermentable dextrines.

so, both mistakes belong to a mash failure.

what I will do is the following with my new batch of a north
german "pilsener bier" at the end of this month:

ingredients: (11,5 P ; 1046 OG)
4 kg german pils malt
27 g Northern Brewer (10% alpha) hops 90 min boil
10 g Goldings (4%) 15 min boil

use a single step infusion mash in an insulated picknic cooler instead
of
using my electric heater unit to eliminate temperature gradients.

mash at 64 C for at least 90 min. any suggestions how much water I
should
add? normally I used 12 litre when I started my 3 step infusionmash.
controll at what time there is no
jodine reaction to get an idea of conversion speed, but go on mashing
even if the test is negative to get more fermentable sugars. (how
long??)
stirring every 10 min.  should be sufficient
to eliminate sugar-concentration gradients, there should be no temp.
gradients
lauter... and boil 90 min. ,remove hops , cool to 17 C, adjust to 1046
OG

pitch with a larger yeast starter. I do not feel very happy with volume
pitching rates due
to the different cell counts in a yeast slurry. for lagers I read about
15 to 20
million cells per mililitre. but this is difficult to determine without
a microscope.

I will propagte in two steps and hope for sufficient yeast numbers:
starting from a slant to inoculate two 200 ml wort-containing (unhopped
from dry malt
about 8 P or 1032 SG)
flasks at roomtemp (20C). pitch these two flasks short before
fermentation
completion into a two litre flask containing 600 ml wort and ferment.
pitch this one litre starter into my well aerated wort and cool it down
from the
17 C to 12 C in one or one and a half day. ferment to completion at 12 C

in
my temperature-controlled fridge. this takes usually about two or three
weeks.
cool down to 1 C and lager for two weeks. try it.....

for the aeration I will use my aquarium pump with a sterile filter
(0,2 micrometer).
even that I do not like the rubber like smell I will try this first
before buying
an expensive pure oxygen tank.

the temperatures will be checked with two or three thermometers before
the mashing procedure to be sure that temp. readings are okay

At the end of january I will let you know what happens with my pils.

greetings from bremen in germany
timo



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Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:26:11 -0500 (EST)
From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: AHA Membership...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Brian Rezac says regarding driving change in the AHA...

> ...if you really want to have a voice and help move the AHA in the
> right direction, you need to be a member.

And this is likely to be your undoing, Brian. The AHA is losing members
like rain falling from the skies. Listening to the membership is one
better than the perception I (a diamond member) and others have held for
quite a while of the AHA's modus operandi; however, that will, at best,
only stem the flow. You need to reverse it. To do this, you may find that
you must listen to BOTH the membership AND those you would like to have in
(or back in) your fold. I heartily recommend you and Paul take another
hard look at what it is you need to do to turn the AHA around. 

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:57:13 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: No-sparge Data Point

I did my first no-sparge brew tonight and here are the results:

 -61% efficiency from theoretical maximum yield
 -1.64 qts/lb in the mash (1.33 qts/lb during conversion, then added 1
gallon during mashout)
 -1.34 grain scale up factor

I am not sure how this will affect the final taste of the beer, but I am
hoping for the best.

I just purchased a 10 gal ss cornie for use as a primary fermenter. 
What is the easiest way to clean ss after a fermentation?  Anything that
it can be soaked in for an extended period like plastic can sit for
weeks in a bleach/water solution?

Kyle
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:40:30 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Brew room setup

Two things I did:

Put in a laundry tub but hang it so the top rim is at 45".  That way the
bottom is  just at hand level when my hands are hanging straight down. 
Saves a lot of sore back.

Add a permanently mounted bottle washer.  You'll find yourself using it to
rinse everything--bottles, carboys, plastic buckets, measuring cups .....

Just my $0.02 

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0 Degrees 30.21 Min North, 4 Degrees 05.11 Min. East of Jeff Renner


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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:17:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re:Paul Gatza's fable

In HBD #2904 (December 18, 1998), Robert J. Waddell
(rjw at dimensional.com) wrote:

>>>>
Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> writes:
>Very few people are
>going to the GABF, so the members-only tasting and reduced admission
>fee perks don't mean anything to most of us.

Very few people are attending the GABF???  Excuse me...?  I have been a
volunteer at the GABF for the last several years, and that comment is
nothing but hot air!
<<<<

I could have written that better. What I meant is that a very low
proportion of AHA members is going to the GABF to take advantage of
the reduced admission price or members-only tasting. I know the event
itself is crowded. My point was that one of the major perks of AHA
memebership isn't a perk at all for the vast majority of AHA members.
Despite the lack of clarity in my initial post, I still stand by that
claim.

 -Steve in Indianapolis





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:25:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Kentucky Common Beer

Thanks to all who responded about my problems accessing the online
Wahl-Henius book. The URL I typed in my initial post was missing the
capital "W" in Wahl; I have the capital W in my bookmark. From
communicating with Spencer Thomas, the problem appears to be with my
firewall. Thanks to him and a few others who sent me the text from the
book.

There isn't a whole lot about Kentucky Common Beer out there, at least
that I've found, but I have come up with enough to be reasonably
confident in beginning some experiments with the style. The thing I
find most interesting about it is that many, if not most, examples of
it were soured in some way. Some brewers apparently employed a sour
mash a la Bourbon makers, others apparently fermented using a lactic
culture.

Anyway, I'll be sure to post results of my experiments here for those
who are interested. And if there's anybody else interested in playing
around with KKC (I know Bill Coleman and I have swapped a couple
emails on this topic), be sure to let me know so we can share notes.
Perhaps the HBD can be responsible for resurrecting another indigenous
American beer style, like several folks did here with Classic American
Pilsner.

 -Steve in Indianapolis,
Trying to become the next Jeff Renner




 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:49:30 -0500
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: GA and the 6% Limit

Glyn said:

>Not a member any longer but, they should also be looking at beer laws like
>in GA and TN.  Brewpubs can't brew over 5.5%(?).  And finding a beer over
>that is darn near, if not impossible.

>I've read that GA is trying to change their 6% law, does anybody have any
>details?

I helped get the GA effort together earlier this year, so I am the
proverbial horse's mouth.  We organized a core group of brewer's and beer
nuts about this time last year, in preparation for the next full (in GA they
are 2 year cycles) legislative session.  We did a bunch of research on the
AHA site, Probrewer.com, etc., and built an educational document, that
should help the legislators understand our proposal.  We petitioned the
general public (for the Democrats ;-) and worked with brewer's guilds,
importers, distributors and retailers and other businesses (for the
Republicans ;-).  We are approaching legislative sponsors as we speak and
hope to have the bill introduced January 11th when the session opens.

Our proposal by the way, is to change a one-paragraph definition for malt
beverages that appears in front of all the laws related to alcohol in the GA
laws.  But, to not change any of the more complex and detailed laws within
the code, as it's called.  This should be simpler (ie, more sell-able),
than, for example, adding a whole new revenue category for the small volume
of high-grav beers that we're talking about.  Details can be found at
www.beerinfo.com/worldclassbeer

Our proposed new definition, while we're flexible with it, will probably
extend the current language to add a phrase about "strong beer not being
more than 14% (or 12% or whatever) alcohol by volume."  This allows the
current language "lagers, stouts, porters (etc.) not being more than 6%" to
be left in the definition to placate lawmakers that are concerned that all
beer could become stronger.  This gives the distibutors the ability to
"register" a beer as a strong beer in the state.  While this is similar to
oft-criticized laws in other states that define "malt liquor" as separate
from "beer" - we feel this is the most likely scenario after talking to as
many folks as we've talked to.

Wish us luck! - and there's a petition form on the above web site which any
GA residents can print, sign and fax in to add your name to the list of
signatures.

Lastly, just a data point, but I did contact the AHA's legalization office
to see what they could possibly provide in the way of information, etc., and
got no response.

Mark Nelson
menelson at mindspring.com
Atlanta GA

PS, I've given most of my materials gathered during the campaign to folks in
Alabama, and would be glad to provide the same to anyone who is interested
in other states.




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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:44:36 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Legalization Response

Paul Gatza <paulg at aob.org> wrote

>The
>Florida statute has a special provision for removing homebrew from the
>home for tastings, and we recommend the Florida statute as the preferred
>model of legislation

Take a look at Michigan's, which was written by a homebrewing member of the
Michigan House of Representatives (how's that for having an inside
operator?).  It not only allows for transportation to tastings, but also
allows for giving up to 20 gallons per year as gifts, and allows for
transportation of the gift, which means you can take it to parties, where
you will be giving it as gifts.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:16:00 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: HBD SUPPORT CHALLENGE!!

"Grow, Roger H" <GrowRH at LOUISVILLE.STORTEK.COM> challenges other clubs to
send money for the HBD upgrade.

Congrats to The Tribe.  I especially like your challenge to AHA.

Ann Arbor Brewers' Guild pledged $100 last week on Spencer's motion.  HBD
janitor and AABG member Pat Babcock felt obliged to abstain from the vote.
;-)

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:24:41 -0500 (EST)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Pretty Amylase molecules

In response to Adam Holmes query on sources of molecular models of
amylases: 

The "standard" format for macromolecular data files is the "pdb" file
(stands for Protein Data Base). These were housed at Brookhaven National
Laboratories here in the US. Good sources would be web servers for
Brookhaven, NIH databases, or the UK Chem Database Service. All relevant
URLs should be easy to find by searching for these on the web. I know that
the Brookhaven database at least has MANY structures of amylases from lots
of different source organisms. Maybe easier still would be to search on
the general topic of protein structured or 3-D models. There are now
several good graphic display programs that, coupled with current desktop
computing power, allow one to view these structures pretty easily. 

As far as amylase info in general, I haven't yet seen any recent
comprehensive surveys of *brewing* amylases, that is cereal amylases, the
main one we're concerned with of course coming from barley, but I haven't 
been looking that hard yet. I have just begun looking at some of the
primary biochemical literature in this field
and there is some interesting info there. If I get my act together I'll
try to write up some kind of summary...

 -Alan 


- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"Graduate school is the snooze button on the alarm clock of life."
	
	-Jim Squire


 -Alan Meeker
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Dept. of Urology

(410) 614-4974
__________________________________________________________________



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Date: 18 Dec 1998 10:43:25 -0500
From: Jason.Gorman at steelcase.com
Subject: bottles


Does anyone know of a beer distributors in Michigan/ N. Indiana that handles
the 8 oz. Heineken bottles?


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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:30:02 -0500
From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com
Subject: Re: Kalamazoo Brewing / Bell's Beer yeast


Paul Kensler writes:

> I know that Bell's beers contain live yeast that can be cultured, and I
> believe that all Bell's beers use the same yeast...

At least *most* do, but I believe (but have not confirmed) that there's
been some playing around with other strains in "Larry's Lager", and a
pilsner (not available beyond the Eccentric Cafe).  They have purchased the
former Duster's Microbrewery in Lawton MI (about 20 miles west of
Kalamazoo), where Brewmaster (and fellow K.L.O.B. member) Tom Fuller is
doing German-style brews.  They are planning to use other strains there,
without risking the introduction of a "foreign" strain into the Bell's
open-fermenter environment.

> Does anyone know if this yeast is a proprietary house strain, or is it a
> common / commercially available yeast (Yeast Culture Kit, Wyeast, etc.)?

The Bell's yeast is something that Larry Bell has developed over years of
homebrewing.  If my information is correct, it was born of Whitbread
lineage (or maybe it was "bread" yeast, as L.B. used to work at Sarkozy's
Bakery).  In any case, it is easy to use -- just carefully decant the beer
off of the yeast cake at the bottom of the bottle (reserving the liquid for
later use!) and pouring in some cooled starter wort, shake the bejeebers
out of it (with your sanitized thumb over the opening) to mix/aereate, and
stuff in the stopper and airlock.

Mark in Kalamazoo




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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:58:35
From: "William W. Macher" <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: A Hair-brained Idea?

Hi Guys...and Gals...:-)

Last Saturday one of the men "pushing the 
broom" (Hi Pat!) mentioned that it was time 
for a Christmas present for the HBD server...

"Great Idea" I thought...been a couple years 
since I sent something...I will do it this year 
for sure....

And I just remembered this morning that I 
had not done a thing!  Good intentions pave 
the way to h... hummmm....how many others, 
like me, have meant to, but forgotten?

So,  just in case there are others,  here is the 
address [save you the search of the 
archives...] 

 Pat wrote: 

"If you can spare a few dollars this year in 
support of the Digest Server,
we, and those using the Digest now and in 
the future, surely appreciate
it! Please send check or money order made 
payable to Pat Babcock (HBD does
not have a bank account) to:

           HBD Server Fund
           PO Box 1966
           Rolla, MO 65402

And thank you!"

Food for thought:

If this is not the best time to send a check,  
perhaps there still is a way we can all help 
with little affect on each of us individually.

If we all just sent a "Green Christmas 
Card"...say a buck or two in an envelope...no 
note inside...not acknowledgment 
expected....painless,  just address the 
envelope and lick the stamp...well,  just like 
your anonymous vote on election day, it would be a big 
help.

If a few hundred (or more) of us sent a buck, 
that would be a hundreds more in the war 
chest, it would be painless, I doubt if any 
would miss it,  the benefit would be great...

Let's all send the server a "Green Christmas 
Card!"

Thanks again to Pat and Karl !!!

Bill Macher    Pittsburgh, PA    USA



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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:47:51 -0800
From: "Dawn Watkins" <Dawn.Watkins at mci.com>
Subject: I would like this info too....

Date: 17 Dec 1998 08:26:06 -0800
From: MARK.KIRKBY at airborne.com
Subject: Wine Cooler


>About 4-6 months ago, Brew Your Own Magazine had an article that explained
>that most wine coolers are actually malt beverages, and gave a recipe to
make
>them.  I made a batch, but have since lost the recipe.  Does anyone out
there
>in the collective have a copy they could e-mail me?  Just need the basic
>recipe.
>
>Yeah, Yeah, I know, but my wife liked it.  Plus, it gives me more kettle
time.


I would be interested in this info as well, though I would need a complete
recipe, since I don't have much experience brewing. I would like to try it,
and have never seen a recipe for a wine cooler type of beverage.

Thanks!

Dawn Watkins
Wyterayven at aol.com



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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:56:24 -0500
From: "Bill Giffin" <billg at ctel.net>
Subject: Re:: Legalization Response

Good morning all,

Paul Gatza  of the AHA said:
>>There are also six states where homebrewing is "possibly permitted,"
meaning that the laws
are vague and can use some clarification or have limitations such as a
maximum alcohol content.  These states are Louisiana, Maine, Nevada, New
Mexico, New York and West Virginia. <<

Homebrewing here in Maine is clearly permitted.  Maine decided that the
Federal law on homebrewing was adequate.  We have held homebrew competitions
in Maine for the past twenty years without a legal question being raised
either by the state or local authorities.  Further more I have discussed,
personally, the legality of homebrewing and particular homebrew competitions
with the Commissioner of the ABC for the State of Maine.The Commissioner
assured me that homebrewing and homebrew competitions were legal.  The only
law which indirectly affects homebrewing is that an unlicensed person may
not take alcoholic beverages on a licensed premise.

The homebrewing community here in Maine does not ask for nor do we want any
help with state laws related to homebrewing as what we have is working very
well.  Please you folks from away don't go and get helpful and have our
legislature pass laws controlling homebrewing.

Maine The way life should be.  That is on the signs greeting folks who come
to or return to Maine and it is correct.

Bill

Bill Giffin
Past President of MALT
61 Pleasant St
Richmond, Maine  04357




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Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:12:30 -0800
From: Gail Elber <gail at brewtech.com>
Subject: Disaster preparedness in the microbrewery

This is not strictly on the topic of home brewing, but I happen to know
that some of us occasionally run out of homebrew and must resort to pubs.

I'd like to have an article in BrewingTechniques on disaster preparedness
in small breweries. What plans do micro- and pub brewers have for power
failures, fires, floods, hurricanes, etc.? Got yeast squirreled away
somewhere? Got backup generators? Got a recovery plan for natural disaster
- -- what to restore first to get back to brewing as soon as possible? Know
any anecdotes of brewers who have gotten up and running efficiently after a
hurricane or whatever? If you can point me in the direction of
well-prepared microbrewers you may know, I'd be grateful. If you _are_ a
well-prepared microbrewer, tell me about it. And if you would like to
_write_ this article, step right up.

Gail Elber
Associate Editor
BrewingTechniques
P.O. Box 3222
Eugene, OR 97403
541/687-2993
fax 541/687-8534




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---