---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Purity of Dry v's Liquid Yeasts (HBD #2932) (Herbert Bresler)
  Bad Service Pandemic / Posting Questionable Data ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  yeast starters (FLHNEM)
  *delicate* balance (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Re:Purity of Dry v's Liquid Yeasts ("Humphrey,Patrick")
  HLT for Brew Pot ("Timmons, Frank")
  Hot break filtering, runout and a need for speed ("Riedel, Dave")
  blue corn meal as an adjunct (Markus Berndt)
  New Dry Yeasts... (Badger Roullett)
  Brew Stands... (Badger Roullett)
  RE: The Jethro Gump Report/2 (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Hennepin Yeast, Isinglass (rbarnes)
  drums (Kim Thomson)
  Beer in Barcelona (Steven Gibbs)
  MCAB Event Preregistration (Louis Bonham)
  Rocket Airlocks...Wyeast English Ale II (Drewmeister)
  Yeast Purity - Dry vs. Liquid (Bob.Sutton)
  World Cup of Beer (Dave Sapsis)
  Simple Raspberry Wheat Recipe - Extract (ctopoleski)
  Sanitizing Bottles & Aluminum Foil ("Franklin.Tom")
  whiskey or whisky (Scott Murman)
  Correct Foam Terminology (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  millenium barleywine (JPullum127)
  RE: Humble Questions ("Alan McKay")
  Re: Boilover prevention (Joe Callahan)
  re: Diacetyl rest (Lou.Heavner)
  Cheap temp control for early stage of lagers (hank bienert)
  Jeremy's humble questions (Vachom)
  Nitrous Oxide (Dan Listermann)
  impossibly low barleywine OG?? (Project One)
  Re: Boil Overs ("Humphrey,Patrick")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:31:44 -0500
From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu>
Subject: Re: Purity of Dry v's Liquid Yeasts (HBD #2932)

In HBD #2932, David Lamotte wrote about the "Purity of Dry v's Liquid Yeasts"

>>Now if we only knew what '< 1cfu / ml' meant ... anyone got any ideas.

cfu stands for "colony forming unit"
When a lab looks for bacteria, the sample is plated onto a suitable medium
and incubated until colonies appear.  So, the standard being expressed by
Wyeast is that they will find less than one colony of bacteria per
milliliter of sample tested.

Good luck and good brewing,
Herb
Bexley, Ohio
SODZ Homebrew Club




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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:34:13 -0600
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Bad Service Pandemic / Posting Questionable Data

Dear HBD Collective. Please consider this as an open letter addressing two
issues: Bad Service in the Homebrew Arena, and Posting Questionable Data on
the HBD. These are not necessarily personal issues. If you disagree with
what I have to say, please address me directly at the email address above.
There's no need to discuss replies on the HBD. Furthermore, if you don't
want to read this message, please page down. Thank You. Now on to the meat.

We have all read (or chosen not to) the saga between a few dissatisfied
customers of a mail order supply house, and the supply house itself. The
problem can be boiled down to a single issue. One party was receiving bad
service, and the other was trying hard, initially, to deny this was the
case. I also read how several people decided to take sides on the issue
without being party to the issue firsthand. Finally, I read how the supply
house was reconciling with the party involved, and everything was supposed
to be hunky dory. I just have one thing to say: Customer service should be
the cornerstone of any business. I would NEVER give over a single penny to
a place of business that gave me bad service. I would also endeavor for as
long as it took to make sure that I was satisfied before discontinuing my
involvement with them, however. I don't know the initial poster, but if he
had to result to letting us all know about his problem with a particular
company, there are serious problems that we should all consider before
doing business with them.

I applaud the pluck of the people who made me aware of a business that
might have some problems in the mail order business. I'll file it away, and
act accordingly.

Now to the second issue: Posting questionable data on the HBD.

I have read the HBD for several years, and have posted occasionally. I have
used the HBD as an excellent source of information, and have improved, in
my opinion, my brewing skills. However, one thing really gets under my
skin, which is posting conjecture. Posts that contain the phrase, "I don't
have the resource to hand, but...." or "I can't recall exactly how process
xxxx works, but here's what I remember...." or "I remember from Organic
Chemistry fifteen years ago that..." really make for a great number of
worthless posts. These types of posts only make it possible for twenty
people to reply that the intial post was off the mark, often all coming in
the very next issue, or delaying the queue for several days.

This problem (as I see it) could be avoided by considering the following
things:
1. There is no time limit on replying to a post that you feel is in error.
2. Consult as many references as possible before posting a new topic.
3. Please make sure to include the reference when posting something
out-of-the-norm.

As an example, "any aeration is bad, even of cold wort before pitching
yeast." Then offer a reference to back this up. Like Lirpa Sloof, of the
Aprilesel Institute of Technology, writing in the April Fools Science
Journal Volume 4, Issue 1. That way, if someone wants to dispute this
claim, they can also choose to look at the same bit of info you used to
come to your conclusion.

Don't get me wrong. There are several issues that are gimmes, like "do
airlocks really keep out nasties?" However, many issues discussed in this
forum are of the heavy science type, like "Do yeast respire in the presence
of glucose and oxygen?"

The value of this resource depends heavily on the quality of the component
posts. Please let's be aware of these issues, and be more careful about
what we so easily post here. There is also no rule saying that the HBD
needs to be 50 K every day.

As I said before, please address replies to me at jkenton at iastate.edu

Jeff Kenton




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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:18:49 EST
From: FLHNEM at aol.com
Subject: yeast starters

     Thank you to all who replied to my post about slow yeast growth due to
low "room temperature" . I recieved several suggestions of locations that may
provide the 80ish degree temp to get the yeast growing. These may help other
brewers with the same problem. In no particular order; on top of fridge or
vcr, water bath with aquarium heater, closet or oven with light on. I was also
advised to start yeast up to two weeks before brew day. Several people advised
yeast starters. There have been many posts on this lately, I think I will try
the method descibed by Richard Hampo in Digest #2929 the way he describes
himself we could be long lost brothers.
     My second question asked what the harm in fermentation delay is? For
those who are interested go to Geoge DePiro's post on Digest # 2930. There
were other replies but George covered it all. Thanks again all.
Frank Hight
Worcester, Ma.


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:10:48 -0500
From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
Subject: *delicate* balance

collective homebrew conscience_

recently, gdp wrote:

>To my palate, a very dextrinous beer can end up tasting worty and unrefined
(I've done it enough >times myself to convince myself of this).<snip>the
majority of beer styles taste more elegant if >they are reasonably
well-attenuated. The use of hops and malts rich in melanoidins (or using
>mash schedules that produce them) can control the perceived level of
maltiness in the beer, >rather than high mash temperatures.

come on, george, haven't you been paying attention???  all the west coast
micros have the answer to the big dextrins.  you're supposed to just clobber
the *#%& out of the beer with hops.  see, that way the beer comes out
balanced.

*sarcasm mode off*

i could not agree more.  i've noticed lately that a lot of my standard o.g.
(~1.048) beers that are finishing at 1.013 or so are tasting very slightly
worty.  not as bad as the vienna lager that finished at 1.020 (!), but there
are characteristics to the flavor that are similar.

my yeast starters are normally two steps (1 pt, 1.5 qt) unless i'm
repitching an entire primary sediment, and i use oxygenation/aeration at
every pitching/repitching, so i wonder if maybe the mash temps need to come
down.  in other words, i think the yeast has probably done as much as it's
going to do.  but i wonder if that's really true?  the more i brew, the more
krausening really seems like a great idea - even if i am kegging the beer.  

when i first started all-grain brewing, i used to saccharify as close to 151
deg f as i could.  most of the standard, all-malt o.g. beers finished out
around 1.010 or 1.011, and i never noticed the worty flavors (but maybe i
wasn't paying enough attention).  rather, i had it in my head that these
beers needed more "flavor", from all contributors.  so i decided to start
mashing a little hotter, up around 155 deg f for most beers.  now i'm
starting to rethink the whole thing. 

question:  what does mashing at 155-160 deg f contribute, other than more
sweetness?  are  "malty" and "sweet" necessarily linked?  i don't want the
sweetness for most beers, i just want the malty flavors.  shouldn't i be
able to get malty flavors with low saccharification temps?

i'm not necessarily talking about "kilned" malty flavors - like you get in
german dunkels.  i'm including the clean light malty flavors you get in a
good dry german pilsner.

of course, yeast selection is another factor to consider.  unattenuative
yeasts (e.g. wyeast 2124, 1968, etc.) combined with high saccharification
temps lead to higher f.g.'s,  more sweetness.

i wonder also about the fermentors.  i use glass carboys, and i've read at
least a few times that beers that are fermented with open fermentors have
been given higher marks than the same beers using closed fermentors.  does
anybody know what the reasoning behind this is?  on a related point, can you
get better attenuation with smaller depth:to:volume ratios (i.e., shallower
vessels)?

most of this is just musing, just trying to push some buttons out there.

and of course, how do you think your delicately balanced, attenuated beer
will fare in a competition against all those heavy, worty, highly hopped
brews?  hmm, can you say palate fatigue?

brew hard,

mark bayer


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:36:02 -0600
From: "Humphrey,Patrick" <patrick.humphrey at abbott.com>
Subject: Re:Purity of Dry v's Liquid Yeasts

David wondered what cfu stands for...

>The Purity Standards are listed as:
>Wild Yeast and Mold ; Negative in 10 ml suspension
 >Bacteria ; < 1 cfu / ml
>Yeast Mutants; None detected

>So there it is - all our questions answered. Now if we only knew what
>'< 1cfu / ml' meant ... anyone got any ideas.

cfu stands for "colony forming units"  ie. one bacterial cell per 
milliliter
of suspension,  which turns into two, four, eight, sixteen...  you get 
the
idea.


Pat Humphrey
Lake Villa, IL  (five miles from the cheeseheads)


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:50:00 -0700
From: "Timmons, Frank" <Frank.Timmons at alliedsignal.com>
Subject: HLT for Brew Pot

In hbd 2931, Rod Prather asked about using (I assume) the brew pot for
the HLT. My setup does that. I have a two tier system with one burner
and a mag drive pump, suitable for high temperatures, to move the
liquids. I heat up enough water to mash and sparge with in my brewpot,
when it gets to strike water temperature (depending on the mash
schedule), I pump enough of it over to my mash tun and begin my mash. I
continue heating the remaining water until it boils, and circulate the
mash liquid, using the pump through a copper coil in the brewpot,
controlling temperature of the mash by regulating flow through the coil.
After mashout, I just pump all of the hot sparge water up to a container
on the second level and gravity feed that into the mash tun. The wort is
pumped from the mash tun to the brewpot for boiling (the brewpot and
mash tun are at the same elevation). After the boil, I pump through a
counterflow chiller.
I had to do this to be able to brew 10 gallon batches in my 6.5 foot
high basement, but I find that it works well. All my connections that
can see hot wort are hard piped to ensure that no air is entrained in
the wort, and I can regulate the flow rates with ball and globe valves.
Once I figured out how to use the system, I get very clear wort, good
extraction, good beer, and I don't have to lift any heavy containers. I
won't be able to put any microprocessor control gizmos on this, not that
I'd want to. Cleaning the parts is easy, after use I rinse the heater
coil inside and out and hang up to dry. After each use, I rinse, TSP
wash, rinse, and Iodiphor all of the other tubing and parts.

Frank Timmons
Richmond, Va.


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:14:44 -0800
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at PAC.DFO-MPO.GC.CA>
Subject: Hot break filtering, runout and a need for speed

Hey gang,

My current boil kettle setup has a copper manifold around the
outside edge of a converted 50L keg (slots down).  I run my
wort through a 3/8" counterflow chiller.  My basic problem at
the moment is slow runout.  It takes at least 15 mins (probably
longer) to collect 5 gallons of cooled wort.  Perhaps this is normal,
but it sure makes aroma hop additions seem awfully close to
flavour additions by the time the wort is in the carboy.

What I'm wondering is what I can do to increase the flow rate.
Next batch I'm going to put the outlet tube right to the bottom of
the carboy - this will give me another 2 feet of siphon 'pull'.  But,
what else can I do?  I put the manifold at the edge of the fermenter
with a plan to whirlpool the hotbreak and hops in the centre and
collect away from it at the edge.  This was fine in theory, but in 
application, I've found (particularly for 10 gallon batches) I've got
enough hops to fill up the concave bottom and up over the manifold
by a few inches (or more).  

So, I'm wondering if I should increase the amount of manifold and
run some of it across the middle of the keg bottom.  Where does
the hop break settle?  If it tends to lag the sinking of the hops, then
it should rest on top of the hop bed and I can safely cover the bottom
with the manifold and draw off wort through a 'hop filter'.  Either that
or go with a pizza-pan false bottom and a plain pick-up tube...

Any thoughts here?

Cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Canada

PS  re: 1968 - I wouldn't be paranoid about trying this yeast, I used it
for a best bitter and it had a wonderful character.  I don't oxygenate.
I use a venturi tube and then shake the carboy for 10-15 mins.




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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:48:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Markus Berndt <Markus.Berndt at Colorado.EDU>
Subject: blue corn meal as an adjunct 


Hi all,
  while shopping for bulk corn meal (for use in a classic american pilsner
this weekend) in our local granola store, I came across a box of blue corn
meal. Has anyone ever used this and, does it have any effect on the color
of the resulting beer? 
  Oh, here is another question. Next to the corn meal I found polenta,
which is coarsly ground corn. Can this be used instead of corn meal or
flaked maize (of course I will boil it to gelatinize it)?

 - Markus

Zwischen Leber un Milz passst immer ein Pils (classsic american, that is)!



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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:06:59 -0800
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: New Dry Yeasts...

Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:21:39 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report/1

			The Jethro Gump Report/Part 1

<snip>
"New Dry Yeasts .....
	I have seen quite a bit of traffic on the HBD on the Nottingham
yeast, and
as a fan of this product, I was pleased......"

Yup, its a great yeast.

	"But, the real news is that Lallemand is soon due to release a new
line of
dry yeasts, initially for the pro-brewer market, that will IMHO, shake the
yeast world up. These will be a line of dry yeasts that have originated in
the halls of the world's premier brewing institutions, been sent to
Lallemand for manufacture, processing and packaging, before samples are
culled for examination by the originating institution."

Can you give any hints as to specific ones?  So we can really drool, and get
all lathered up for their eventual release.

"Look for release in the next few months to the pro-brewers, and
unfortunately, god knows when to the homebrewing market."

Any suggestions as to who to write to encourage them to release to us
sooner?

Badger

*********************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger (Seattle, WA)
Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html




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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:21:45 -0800
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: Brew Stands...

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:53:15 GMT
From: huskers at voyager.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: priming sugar effects on gravity, brewery set up, and making barley
wine

"My brew stand is easily the best investment I've made. It's made brewing so
much simpler."
" My system completely relies on gravity. My brewing has been going downhill
for the last 50 batches! I probably would've bought a pump if I hadn't built
a brew stand. "

I am on the verge of making this step myself.. and i was wondering if people
had recomendations for Brewstands that i can buy, not being a welder or
knowing of one...

I would like one that is already setup with burners, but not teh pots, as i
have two, and am making arrangements to get a third keg soon.  

Thanks in advance.

*********************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger (Seattle, WA)
Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html




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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:22:54 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: The Jethro Gump Report/2

>>>>
improvements in technique, ingredients, and procedure have resulted in a
decrease in labor requirements, and thus my position
<<<<

The Chief of Engineering of the starship Enterprise, Scotty, has always kept
his position, as he knows the fine art of supplying and reducing output on
demand. "But captain - she's already at 110 percent, any more and I am
afraid she'll blow"

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 99 16:32:44 -0800
From: rbarnes at sdccd.cc.ca.us
Subject: Hennepin Yeast, Isinglass


     Hi all,
     
     Last weekend I attempted to propagate the yeast from a bottle of 
     Hennepin Ale. I added a few ounces of hopped wort to the dregs in the 
     bottle, a shot of oxygen, and things seemed to take off. This was 
     Friday evening.
     
     On Sunday I transferred the fermenting wort to a half-gallon jar and 
     added a quart of fresh wort from a stout that I brewed (1.055). 
     Aerated with pure oxygen, and had activity within a couple of hours.
     
     OK, here's my question. By Monday morning I still saw activity but the 
     wort had cooled to probably the mid-60s (deg. f.). Thinking that this 
     yeast would perform better at a higher temp I wrapped the jar with a 
     towel and heating pad and went on my merry way.
     
     That night I checked the temp just for grins, and it was 100 degrees!
     
     What will this do to the yeast? It was still active (and still active 
     the next morning after removing the heat). I plan to step it up one 
     more time before using, if I use it at all. I know that dry yeast is 
     typically rehydrated at this temperature, but I haven't heard 
     references to overheating liquid yeast.
     
     Now going from Stupid Brewer Tricks to Strange Brewer Tricks, has 
     anyone ever tried to make Isinglass? If I took the air bladder out of 
     a catfish, for instance, cleaned and dried it, what else would I have 
     to do to use it as a fining agent?
     
     Randy in San Diego




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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:16:33 -0600
From: Kim Thomson <alabrew at mindspring.com>
Subject: drums

To keep St. Pat's name going on the HBD...

What are you brewers doing with the blue plastic containers the original
poster was talking about?  I get my malt in 15 gal. metal food grade
drums and they are stacking up - have 10 now and use one about every two
weeks.

They are about 13 1/2"  in diameter (a lid from a 7.6 gal. plastic
fermenter will fit it), have two openings - one  about 2 1/4" and the
other about 1", and two handles.  Each one weighs ~14 lb..

Have given many away for use as garage garbage cans but know there are
better uses and the recycle center doesn't want them because of the
plastic lining.


Kim Thomson

private e-mail ok  - alabrew at mindspring.com
- --
ALA-BREW
Homebrewing Supplies
Birmingham, AL
http://www.mindspring.com/~alabrew/
Full Service Home Beer And Wine Brewing Supply





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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:25:29 -0800
From: Steven Gibbs <gibbs at lightspeed.net>
Subject: Beer in Barcelona

To the learned collective:
    I will be traveling to Barcelona, Spain in March for a family get
together. The last time I was there I found the beer selection very
sparse. I would like to know if any of you know where I could find a
good Belgian, Czech, or German beer outlet, tapas bar or anything else
where I might be able to find European brews. A real bonus would be a
brew pub or micro brewery. Any help in this regard would be greatly
appreciated.
Happy Brewing
Steve Gibbs




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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:28:35 -0600
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: MCAB Event Preregistration

Hi folks:

As we're getting closer to the MCAB, a number of people have requested that we
offer some sort of pre-registration and make the "pre-registered" list available
at the conference to attendees so that people can see who's there.  In addition,
two of the events (Clear Lake Pub Crawl on Saturday afternon and George De
Piro's Sensory Evaluation Seminar) will by necessity have to be on a limited
seating basis (about 43 for the Clear Lake Pub Crawl and 80 for the sensory
evaluation seminar), which we may be able to expand if we know in advance the
number of people who want to participate in these events.  Finally, a number of
the speakers have requested an approximate head count so they can have printed
materials prepared.

(There will be a nominal charge for bus passes for the pub crawls (probably
about $5) and for a food ticket for the final bash (probably $5-10). Final
pricing will be announced when we have gotten all the remaining sponsors lined
up and committed.)

Ergo, if you're planning to attend the MCAB -- especially if you're from out of
town -- please drop me an e-mail with the following information:

Name of attendee
Address, telephone, e-mail
Brew Club Affiliation
Plans to Attend (list events you want to attend):
     Friday evening Pub Crawl (Houston Village Area)
     Friday night George Fix / Paul Farnsworth beer tasting
     Saturday morning technical conference
     Saturday afternoon technical conference
     Saturday afternoon Pub Crawl (Clear Lake area)
     Saturday afternoon Sensory evaluation seminar
        (note: the Saturday afternoon pub crawl and the
         Sensory Evaluation Seminar are at the same time)
     Saturday evening party

Additionally, if you are a National Judge and want to be put on the list of
candidates for the remaining panel slots, please indicate this as well.  (Master
judges who have not already done so should contact me directly to reserve their
desired panel assignments.)  Judges -- even if they have reserved their panel
assignments -- will all need to check in at the judge check in table at the
hotel on Friday evening (by 7 PM) and Saturday morning (by 11 AM).

Finally, please indicate the time/date and airport you will be flying in to.  We
*may* be able to either have a few scheduled airport pickups or help coordinate
ground transportation with other MCAB attendees.  (If we're able to do so, I'll
contact you directly -- but please assume that you'll have to arrange your own
ground transportation!)

As always, please feel free to write me with questions.

Louis K. Bonham
Organizer, Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing



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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:14 -0500
From: Drewmeister <drewmstr at erols.com>
Subject: Rocket Airlocks...Wyeast English Ale II

Hello all, this is my first post on HBD.  Been getting it for years, but
just recently started reading it in earnest.  I am a homebrewer of about 6
years, do all-grain, partials and extract.  Whatever mood strikes.  Anyway,
I recently did an extract batch IPA using Wyeast English Ale II.  I
typically ferment in a 7 gal carboy, but my 7 gal was indisposed and I had
to use a 5 gal.  After cooling the wort and pitching the yeast and
aerating, I put in a standard 3 piece airlock with vodka.  Here is the
first question.  The last 3 batches I've done, I can't stop the airlock
from draining at least once (thus I use vodka).  I can see if the wort is
over room temp that as the wort and air inside the sealed fermenter cool,
the pressure decreases and the water (vodka) gets sucked in.  However this
time, I could swear the wort was LESS than room temp.  Anyway, I refilled
with distilled water and it was fine after that.  After about 14 hours it
started going ape.  That's when I realized that I should have used a
blow-off tube.  The airlock eventually got clogged with Krausen (my local
shop owner told me to leave it) and as the pressure built up inside the
carboy it shot out the airlock out like a rocket (what a mess).  After
probably 2 hours, I returned and quickly put a blow-off tube in, but
without sanitizing the hose.  This was 2 weeks ago.  The beer is STILL
fermenting although only bubbling into the water bath through the blow-off
every 20 seconds or so.  Second question, do you think the beer is OK with
the exposure and the unsanitized blow-off tube???  Third, has anyone had
this experience of really vigorous, long fermentation with this or other
English Ale yeasts??  Never seen a Krausen head quite like this one!!!  It
has been 16 days since I pitched the yeast.  Would you transfer to a
secondary NOW???  I'm used to timing to racking to a secondary by watching
an airlock rather than a blow-off tube.  Advice???  Thanks...

Drew Nix
Frederick, MD
drewmstr at erols.com
Drewmeister
drewmstr at erols.com
http://www.erols.com/drewmstr/clave.html


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:02:27 -0500
From: Bob.Sutton at fluordaniel.com
Subject: Yeast Purity - Dry vs. Liquid

David Lamotte, Brewing Down Under in Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia ruminated:

[QUOTE]
The Purity Standards are listed as: 
        Wild Yeast and Mold ; Negative in 10 ml suspension
        Bacteria ; < 1 cfu / ml
        Yeast Mutants; None detected

So there it is - all our questions answered. Now if we only knew what
'< 1cfu / ml' meant ... anyone got any ideas.
[ENDQUOTE]

cfu = Colony Forming Unit
a.k.a. viable adventitious organism
ml = milliliter (of course you knew that)

What your data doesn't express. is how many viable desired yeast cells are in
that ml sample to compare with the dry yeast data. Perhaps this is on the Wyeast
site (sight, cite... ) - I haven't peaked.

Bubbling over in Sawth Caroliner...

Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:11:49 -0800
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Subject: World Cup of Beer

Well, Spring is around the corner (I hope) and that means it's time to
gear up for NorCal's premier Springtime homebrew event, the 5th Annual
World Cup of Beer, sponsored by the Bay Area Mashers. Again, World Cup
is an MCAB qualifier, BJCP registered and AHA sanctioned.  Of course
there will also be a rockin' party at Golden Pacific Brewery in Berkeley
following the final judging.
Specifics: 
**Entries due 3/13 at either Oak Barrel Winecraft in Berkeley or the
Englander Pub in San Leandro.
**Prelim rounds the 20/21st, and Finals on the 27th.
**Lots of good info on the webpage at http://www.bayareamashers.org/
or email the Competition Coordinator Bernie Roonie at oakbar1 at aol.com
for more details.
Interested Judges should contact the Judge Coord. Greg Griffin at
griffin1842 at earthlink.net.
Me???  I'm just doing the BBQ.

Cheers,
- --dave 


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:36:10 -0500
From: ctopoleski at barents.com
Subject: Simple Raspberry Wheat Recipe - Extract

In HBD # 2932, Brian Morgan asks for a simple extract recipe for a
raspberry wheat. I made this one as my third HB batch with two
modifications.
First, I changed the raspberries to blackberries. I used a can of the
blackberries in the secondary and omitted the raspberry flavoring. Second,
used whole hops instead of pellets, because I had the whole ones in my
freezer.

6.6# M&F Wheat malt extract
1 oz. U.S. Hallertau (60 min)
1/2 oz. German Hallertau (5 min)
16 oz. can Oregon Fruit Products Raspberries in heavy syrup
4 oz. L.d. Carlson Raspberry flavoring
Wyeast #3056 Bavarian Wheat yeast
3/4 cup corn sugar for bottling

Prepare Wyeast in advance. In a brew kettle, bring 1 1/2 gallon water to a
boil. Turn off the heat and add malt extracts, stirring until dissolved.
Add U.S. Hallertau hops.
With 5 minutes remaining of the 60 minute boil, add 1/2 oz German Hallertau
hops. Cool quickly until the wort reaches 65-68 degrees. Pour the contents
of the brew pot into a plastic fermenter. Add Raspberries from the can,
syrup and all (can contents are pasteurized). (do NOT use a glass carboy
for primary fermentation), top with cold water to 5 gallons, and seal the
fermenter with an airlock. Pitch Wyeast and aerate. Fermentation should be
completed within 7 to 10 days, or rack to secondary when primary
fermentation has ended. When bottling, add raspberry flavoring to taste.

Hope this helps.


Chris Topoleski

TwoCat Home Brewery
Washington, DC




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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:35:58 -0500
From: "Franklin.Tom" <frankli1 at niehs.nih.gov>
Subject: Sanitizing Bottles & Aluminum Foil

Hi All,

I work in a research institute where the scientist use a variety of flasks
and other glass containers/measuring devices.  After the glass is cleaned
(not necessarily sterilized) at an on-site central facility, aluminum foil
is wrapped over the mouth of each flask.  One of the Yeast (Genetics)
scientists told me that this helps to keep bacteria out.  Bacteria, he
explained, likes to land in a straight line down and doesn't do so well
going up and under things (like aluminum foil wrapped around the top of a
flask).

Out of curiosity, does anyone out there do this with bottles?  I like
brewing but I hate bottling.  By the end of a day of sanitizing, rinsing,
filling and capping bottles I'm sick of it all.  If I could break that into
two separate processes by a few days, that would be great.

Many thanks,

tom



_________________________________________________
Tom Franklin
TPMC Corporation
Macintosh Computer Support
     Module/Floor D3&4; E4; F3
NIEHS Information Technology Support Services Contract
Phone:  (919) 541-4797; Room E-352


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:50:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: whiskey or whisky


While the topic of whiskey is in the air, does anyone know why there
are two spellings - whisky and whiskey?  

 -SM- single-malt snob



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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:14:42 -0500 (EST)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Correct Foam Terminology


>>Dan Listerman asks if there's a scientific term for the collapse of
foams.<<

Yes there is. The precise technical term is: "phhhhhhhhtt"

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore



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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:17 EST
From: JPullum127 at aol.com
Subject: millenium barleywine


i made a batch of the aha barleywine monday using wyeast scotch ale yeast. wow
i split the batch into 2 carboys since i heard it would have a ferocious
ferment. they wern't kidding. carboy temp is steady at 64 and krausen is up to
the neck of each carboy. o.g.=1.098. this is going to be good stuff new  years
eve. start planning your millenium party now.     


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:29:13 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: RE: Humble Questions

QUESTION 1 : Wort Concentration

You generally want to boil as much water as possible.  Too little
water means too high a concentration of sugars, which can lead
to darkening, and even burning (in extreme cases).  Starting with
3 gallons, you might want to add some boiling water (from an
electric kettle or smaller pot) from time to time to counteract
this.   It will have more positive effects than any possible 
negitives ones (can't think of any negative ones off-hand)

QUESTION 2 : Hop Bags and Sediment

The two are unconnected in my experience.  The sediment you
are seeing is called break material (hot break and cold break).
See the Glossary at http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/
for details.  It's generally a good thing.  BTW, "sparging"
is not the right term for what you would be doing.  I know it's
the term that Papazian uses, but it's incorrect.   There is
no brewer-specific term for that.  I used to use hop bags
quite a lot with great success.  Keep in mind that you'll 
probably get slightly lower utilization when using them.
Other than that, the choice is yours.

QUESTION 3 : Lager Yeast

Making a starter is crucial with those smack packs.  If your
brew shop guy told you you didn't really have to make a starter,
then he's not a very knowledgable person.  If you are really
fermenting this thing at Lager temperatures, then you especially
need a starter, and an extra-large starter at that.  If you
are indeed fermenting this at lower temperatures, you are problably
going to be in big trouble.  If 60F to 70F, then you will likely
be OK, but possibly not.  In the future, make a starter (see
the link I gave above).  Not making a starter can cause the
beer to take really long to ferment (generally a bad thing),
and can cause it to finish too early at too high a gravity.
Adding yeast nutrient can generally help there, and certainly
couldn't hurt in your current situation.

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay		Nortel Networks
Norstar WinNT		613-765-6843 (ESN 395)
amckay at nortelnetworks.com


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:48:34 -0600
From: Joe Callahan <fjc2947 at networksplus.net>
Subject: Re: Boilover prevention

In Reply to message below. This is my first post to this digest.
Ever since I read this article from "Sun City Brewers Guild"
"http://hbd.org/starcity/tips/boilover.html" I have been using four
landscaping rocks I got from in front of the house. Presto-Chango, no
more boilovers. It's a neat trick. I just thought I'd add what little
knowledge I have.
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:22:15 -0500
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <saunderm at vt.edu>
Subject: Boil overs

Collective,

My last three brew sessions, I've been using a little widget my wife got
for me to control boiling.  To my astonishment (I was pretty skeptical,
the
thing looks a bit like a tin can lid), I've been able to leave the pot
and
do other things rather than worry if there was going to be a big mess
all
over the stove.  Once again, last night I was able to rack beer in one
room, while boiling in another and even catch a bit of TV.  I think it
was
$2.50 plus tax and shipping.  If any of you want details, send me an
email.

Cheers!
Matthew.


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:33:46 -0600
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: re: Diacetyl rest


     From: Sean Murphy <smurphy at sdcoe.k12.ca.us>
     Subject: Diacetyl Rest info needed

     >Hi there,
     >I'm planning on brewing a Pale Lager in the Pils / Export style in
     >the
     >few weeks and I would like to do a diacetyl rest but am not sure of
     >the
     >exact time to do the rest.  Miller's Homebrewing guide recommends
     >starting the rest when the wort is 2/3ds of the way through it's
     >fermentation.  This much I understand, but do I conduct the rest in
     >my primary fermenter and transfer after the rest, or should I
     transfer at
     >the end of primary, into secondary and then do the diacetyl rest in
     the
     >secondary?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

     I ferment lagers in a fridge and secondary/lager in the fridge.  But
     in between, I rack from plastic to glass.  I probably wait longer than
     most to rack to secondary, typically sometime in the second week.  The
     beer is naturally going to warm up some during transfer, so that is
     when I do my diacetyl rest (in the secondary fermenter, immediately
     after racking).  I usually give it 2 days.  I've never had anybody
     comment on diacetyl or buttery flavors.  But then I can't say I have
     really noticed buttery flavors in beers I've had whether made
     commercially or at home.  I can certainly taste the butter in popcorn,
     so I don't know what my sensory threshold is for diacetyl.

     Cheers!

     Lou Heavner - Austin, TX
     next brew:  Albequerque Afterburner w/ homegrown jalapenos


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:45:46 -0600
From: hank bienert <hbienert at mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Subject: Cheap temp control for early stage of lagers

Feeling the big challenge for the lager brewer is temp control in the
first few weeks around 50 and living in New Orleans where 80 in winter
can occur, I have flirted with 'son of chiller',and finally a
second-hand frig.The frig. can not go above 41 unless modified by
turning it off via a brewing thermostat or a timer,the first costing
50-60 bucks,close to the price of the frig.Also If one raises the frig
temp too much the freezer gets too warm and defrosting sets in.
BUT if one takes a frig and sets the thermostat  warm as possible and
the freezer as warm as possible, a freezer temp of 10-15 and a frig temp
of 39-40 is achieved.Then place 8 sheets of the blue syrofoam insulation
(usually yours for the taking at any construction site in the small
sizes needed) on the top shelf.This will produce a 10 differential in
the lower level of the frig,about 50 degrees.This is based on my frig
and that of my neighbor but I believe any frig will produce the same
results.



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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:50:29 -0600
From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: Jeremy's humble questions

I recommend purchase of a larger vessel for your brewing.  No need to spend
lots of scred.  A good hardware store or mega-dry goods store will have a
7.5 gallon, enamel pot for around $25.  A good rolling boil is important.  I
also recommend steeping your grains at mash temperatures instead of near
boiling temps.  Buy a dial top thermometer, and steep your crystal at 150F.
About whole hops sediment:  use a strainer to remove residual whole hops.
Using a strainer solo is simply a matter of kitchen jerry-rigging some means
of supporting the end of the strainer opposite the one being supported by
the edge of your fermentation bucket.  If you're using a carboy for
fermentation, buy a funnel with a strainer built in.  You got some seriously
bad advice from your "local brewer."  I'm guessing you mean your local brew
supply shop owner.  It's essential to let the yeast incubate.  I think that
you should go out and buy some dry yeast right away, stir it into a pint of
clean water, let it sit a half hour and pitch it into your wort.  I'd be
highly suspect of any fermentation advice (maybe any brewing advice. . . .)
this person might offer in the future.  If it's a supply shop owner, and you
have another shop in town, I'd suggest checking the other place out.

Mike 
New Orleans, LA


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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:55:09 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Nitrous Oxide

Jeff Hall asks:<Has anyone tried using 'whip-its' Nitrous Oxide 
cartridges
designed for making whipped cream to tap a 5 liter minikeg?
I'm thinking of trying it on minikeg of stout ('bottle' conditioned).
Would NO2 gas work in place of pure Nitrogen gas?>

I asked the manufacturer of these cartridges this very question.  He told

me that CO2 forms carbonic acid as it passes through the bubbles.  N2 is
almost inert and cannot pass through the walls of a bubble this way so 
they
last longer.  NO2 forms nitric acid and acts in ways similar to CO2.  I
would have to say that NO2 is no substitute for N2.

He did say that the nitric acid has a sweet taste??????????

Dan Listermann                   dan at listermann.com

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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:14:18 -0800
From: Project One <project1 at pond.net>
Subject: impossibly low barleywine OG??

Last Sunday, I got together with some friends to brew a barleywine for
New Year's Eve.  We ended up with an OG that seems impossibly low, and I
can't figure out what we did wrong.  Here's the story...

OLD STONER BARLEYWINE - partial mash

3 lbs. 6 row
1 lb. Munich
1 lb. Crystal
11 lb. Munton light DME
6 oz. Magnum hops  at  13.9 - boiling
1 oz. Chinook  at  12.3 - 45 min.
1 oz. Chinook  at  12.3 - 55 min.
big cake of Wyeast 1056 from a pale ale bottled that morning

Did infusion mash on the grains. got 2.5 gal. of 1.036 (yeah, lousy
efficiency, but that's another message..I have several ideas what we did
wrong).  Added the dry malt & boiled for 75 min. w/ Magnums (about 4
gal. tot boil vol.).  Followed standard procedure for the boil & hop
additions, cooled, put in carboy w/ yeast cake, topped off  to 5.5 gal.
Stirred wildly for 5 min., then shook the crap out of the carboy to mix
& aereate.  So we measrued the OG and came up w/ 1.086!!!  Seems
impossible.  Using the tables in Designing Great Beers, it looks like we
should have gotten 99 pts. from the DME alone (45 pts/lb/gal * 11 lb / 5
gal =99 pts. right??).  Checked the grav again yesterday to nmake sure
that we hadn't screwed up the measurement. and it was 1.069, which seems
in line w/ the 1.086 OG (we got fermentation starting in about 20 min.
using the yeast cake, so at least SOMETHING went right!!)

So the questions are:

1.)  How could this happen???
2.) we thought that when we put it in secondary, we'd add more yeast and
a couple more lbs. of DME (boiled up of course) to try to increase the
gravity.  Think this'll work??

I look forward to any ideas anyone here may have...I'm completely
stumped!!!

Thanks,
        ----------->Denny Conn



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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:36:38 -0600
From: "Humphrey,Patrick" <patrick.humphrey at abbott.com>
Subject: Re: Boil Overs

Matthew commented on a little widget to prevent boilovers...

>My last three brew sessions, I've been using a little widget my wife 
got
>for me to control boiling.  To my astonishment (I was pretty 
skeptical, the
>thing looks a bit like a tin can lid), I've been able to leave the pot
 and
>do other things rather than worry if there was going to be a big mess 
all
>over the stove.

Something I use to control boilovers are 5-6 small pea-sized pieces of
granite.  They work very well and you can make them by breaking up a 
small
granite stone with a hammer.  I boiled mine in some water to clean them
 and
then tossed them in the kettle during heating  They give a very smooth 
boil.
The only problem I have is fishing them out of the sludge after I have
transferred my boiled wort to the fermenter.

I imagine that pea gravel will also work fine but the rough edges of 
the
broken stone help as nucleation points for the boil.  In the lab we 
call
these boiling chips or "boileezers".  They can be made of silica glass,

carbon or even teflon.  Rocks are fine for me.


Pat Humphrey
Lake Villa, IL


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---