---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  False Kettle Bottoms ("Matthew J. Harper")
  SS Screens (Jack Schmidling)
  re: Corny Relief Valve (John_E_Schnupp)
  goo & gunk (William Frazier)
  The 11th Commandment ("Erik Vanthilt")
  re: Un-supported opinions (Dick Dunn)
  Why would one want a rest at 140 ? (LEAVITDG)
  Re: CO2 Kegging (Brandon Brown)
  Home cask-conditioning ("H. Dowda")
  Re: Blue Corn Beer (Spencer W Thomas)
  Plastic Boil Vessel. ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Paddles/Pizza Scrims/Corny Relief Valves/Misc. ("Philip J Wilcox")
  RE: CO2 Kegging (no carb) ("Alan McKay")
  Cereal Cooking ("Alan McKay")
  Ranco ETC111000-000 ("Gregg Soh")
  Re: Rheingold Extra Dry---It's back! What's that hop? (Jeff Renner)
  update: blue corn meal, Mashing Corn Meal Before Boiling ("Crossno, Glyn")
  more basic yeast questions (Jeremy B. Pugh)
  Ipswich (MA) Brewing Co.'s Ale - 3 Questions (John_Doherty)
  Over Attenuation ("Tim Burkhart")
  Boiling Kettle False Bottom (Brent Dowell)
  pellet hops = muddy beer & floaties (Kenneth Sullivan)
  Old Malt Syrup (Michael Valencia)
  Abreviations (Jeffry D Luck)
  More about EM screens ("Steven W. Smith")
  longshot hibernator (Zerbphlatz)
  kegging without CO2 tanks ("Brook Raymond")
  Heart of Dixie Brew-Off, March 13, 1999 ("John W. Rhymes")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:08:59 -0500
From: "Matthew J. Harper" <matth at progress.com>
Subject: False Kettle Bottoms

Dan S. asks about false bottoms in the kettle.

I have a small data point to offer.  Last Friday I made my first batch in
my new Polar Ware kettle, which my wife order for my birthday (ain't she
just The Best!).  Having been listening all these years, she ordered it
with the false bottom option.  It's a flate sheet of stainless that is
(as expected) a perfect fit for the pot.  It's not a screen, bigger holes,
more material between the holes.

I brewed up an extract batch (wanted to try it on a simple procedure before
doing an all grain, been a few months :-)  with a total of about 4 ounces
of pellet hops added.  The false bottom captured about %80 - %85 of the
break meterial.  Little of it made it into the carboy due to the placement
of
the spigot (just perfect, what a nifty pot!)  so it's a reasonable
guesstimate
based on volume left on the plate vs volume in the bottom.

Wort below the spigot got saved for later yeast starter... think they
planned it that way???? <grin>

Anyway, for me, it worked like a charm, and I am sure I'll be glad I have
it everytime I brew!

 -Matth

Matthew J. Harper
Principal Software Engineer
Progress Software Corp.
Nashua, New Hampshire
matth at progress.com

Sometimes you're the windshield - Sometimes you're the bug



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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:18:52 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: SS Screens

Just for the record, it need not be a secret that the Surescreen is
the same screen used in the standard EasyMasher.  Al K. functions as
our distributor on that item because we have no way of handling small
orders.

js  
- -- 

Visit our WEB pages:     http://user.mc.net/arf

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday



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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:12:49 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: Corny Relief Valve

>Just a quick question to all, what is the ideal relief valve presure on a
>corny keg?  I have several defective such valves and was wondering if they
>could be used for closed fermenting or is the pressure at 2-3 lbs too high
>for that?  Just a thought, not suggesting that anyone notch they their
>seals.

I'd have to look at one of my kegs at home but I do believe that at
2-3 psi you'd never be able to properly carbonate your beer.  Since
the pressure relief valve is a safety feature, I'd suspect that it's
release pressure is close or equal to the pressure rating of the keg.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Brewery
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:41:59 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: goo & gunk

In HBD #2936, January 25th several people posted about a method of
mashing cereal grains before adding them to the main mash...

From: "George De Piro" 
At home it is no bother to simply dump a pot
of boiled corn into your mash and scrape the goo out.  

From: Markus Berndt
There were lautering problems reported before with a mash that
contained blue corn meal...I was able to run off (only) about
1 pint of wort and then the mash was stuck. 

From: Alan McKay 
As it turns out, the only reason the big brewers do this is to prevent
"retrogradation"... For the homebrewer, that poses zero problem
because you are only dealing with a pound or two of "gunk" at a time,
and even if it does gum-up, you can still very easily scrape it out
of the pot and mix it into the mash, where it will convert as though
nothing had every happened.

This brings to mind a 12 hour brewing day I had last week.  Before 
adding rice to a hybrid CAP, I boiled the rice 20 minutes and then
held the rice in a 190F oven overnight.  Next morning the rice was
very soft and the touch of a spoon turned the rice into rice paste.
It was my first time using rice in a mash and I thought little 
about it.  I mixed the rice paste (this looked like "goo" and/or 
"gunk"to me) with the other grains and brewing water, mashed in my
Igloo Mash Tun and then tried to sparge.  After 5-1/2 hours I
finally had my 6 gallons for boiling.  Next time I think I will
try to avoid "goo" and "gunk".

	Bill Frazier
	The Briarpatch Home Brewery
	Johnson County, Kansas  
 



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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:02:52 -0800
From: "Erik Vanthilt" <vanthilt at inetworld.net>
Subject: The 11th Commandment

"Thou shalt not talk religion in the book of beer"

Come on guys, do we really need to talk about this stuff?
The digest is for learning about brewing, not religion. 
And don't give me that page down crap either...

I'd rather hear about botulism!

>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 99 04:09:22 +0000
>From: marnold at ez-net.com
>Subject: Re: Gump Report
>
>>"A Study of the oldest bible texts, written in Aramaic, 
>>suggest that Jesus turned water into beer, not wine, during 
>>the wedding feast in Canaan, the Global Beer Network 
>>newsletter has reported.
>>
>Far be it from me to question the credibility of such noted 
>theological journals as the "Global Beer Network 
>Newsletter," but I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree. 
>First of all, the New Testament was originally written in 
>Greek, not Aramaic (there are brief portions of the Old 
>Testament that are in Aramaic, the vast majority is Hebrew). 
>Any Aramaic New Testament texts would be in translation and 
>thus less reliable than the original.
>
>BTW, the wedding, while in Canaan, more specifically was at 
>Cana.

Great. I'll remember this when I'm on Jeopardy.

>>
>>"In later translations of the Bible, centuries after the 
>>fact, beer was replaced by wine"
>>
>This is just plain wrong. I'll save you the drawn out text 
>study.
>
>>GBN observes. "Wine was considered a drink for the happy 
>>few that could afford it...(even then) wine marketers were 
>>already succeeding in giving wine a more upscale image."
>>
>This is revisionist history. While I cannot comment on the 
>availability of beer to the masses in ~30 A.D. Israel, I do 
>know that wine was a common drink, not the sole property of 
>the well-to-do by any means.
>
>>According to GBN, noted beer author Michael Jackson also 
>>subscribes to the theory.
>>
>Perhaps Michael should stick to writing about beer . . .


HMMMM, Funny, I THINK he IS writing about beer!


>>"Jesus was a hero of the common people," the GBN newsletter 
>>notes, "fighting the establishment. Why wouldn't he drink 
>>what everyone else was drinking, which was beer? When you 
>>think about it, it is very possible that the drink at the 
>>Last Supper was also Beer."
>>
>Ahh, what a slippery slope bad logic is! The concept of beer 
>at the Last Supper is the product of fanciful imagination, 
>not on any biblical basis. It makes a nice story, but that's 
>about it.
>
>Don't get me wrong--I like beer as much as the average 
>person (perhaps even more!), but this is just silliness.
>

What is silliness? The fact that you bother argue about this?

>Just when I thought I could go on vacation . . .
>Matt (the Rev.), posting in the Twin Cities, even farther 
>away from Jeff Renner than
>usual.

More than I need to know, I just read this thing so I can make better beer!

While I realize most subscribers have careers other than brewing,
wouldn't it be better to leave this forum as it is? 
Beer, anybody?

I have now gotten off my soapbox.

Starting controversy the old fashioned way, without an intern...

Erik



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Date: 26 Jan 99 01:35:13 MST (Tue)
From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: Un-supported opinions

Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com> wrote:
> When Gallileo expressed his opinion that the earth was round and that 
> the earth rotated around the sun, he had few references to support his 
> ideas...

This is as good an argument as any in favor of Jeff Kenton's plea for good
references (and as bad an argument as any in favor of Alan McKay's "hey,
post whatever comes into your head" retort).  DUH.  The earth had been
known to be round since classic Greece (even if a few later civilizations
denied it), and it was Copernicus, not Galileo, who repudiated the
geocentric model.  Galileo did advocate the Copernican view, and catch some
shit for it, but realize that we call it "Copernican astronomy" and also
that Copernicus was dead before Galileo was born.

[In the name of citing references or at least supporting information, I
note that Copernicus died in 1543 and Galileo was born in 1564.  Also,
FWIW, Copernicus was Polish and Galileo was Italian.]

> ...Although 
> there were some before him who believed the same to be true, many of his 
> ideas were born out of logic rather than regurgitating someone else's 
> thoughts learned from a book.  I support the idea that suggestions 
> should be supported with references whenever possible, but I would hate 
> to see a good thought or suggestion suppressed simply because no 
> reference was readilly available.

I would like to see some justification that Galileo's ideas were born of
logic rather than empiricism (which is my belief of how he worked).  The
geocentric conclusion is based on empirical evidence and Occam's razor.

Of what value is "a good thought or suggestion" if it has no support?  We
don't need a reference, specifically.  We need some supporting informa-
tion that an expression is more than just an idle opinion.  If you can't
support it somehow, it's just a guess...and we don't need guesses.

What does this have to do with the HBD?  (Good question.)  It's just that
in the 12+ years of the HBD, it's been a constant battle to keep facts
on the winning side.  Time and time again, somebody starts making asser-
tions that he's right...because he's right, or because he's an authority,
or because he challenges the authorities and obviously they're twits, or
whatever.  Let's discourage that.
- ---
Dick Dunn          rcd at talisman.com          Hygiene, Colorado  USA
   ...Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools.


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:27:43 -0500 (EST)
From: LEAVITDG at SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
Subject: Why would one want a rest at 140 ?

I recently ran across a Nestles' Tollhouse Porter recipe at "Cat's Meow 3"
and have tried it...The recipe basically has pale malt, some chocolate malt,
some crystal...then 15 min before the end of the boil some Nestles' Tollhouse
Cocoa.  Now here is the question:  The author has a beta rest at 104 (probably
not needed), then one at 140.  Looking at Fix and Fix's book I can't figure
out why a rest at 140?  If 145/ 147/ 149 it would make sense...but 140 is
at the bottom of beta-amylase range.....and above the higher molecular
weight protein corridor...so what gives?  Can anyone clear this
up for me?
 ...Darrell
<Plattsburgh, NY>


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:08:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Brandon Brown <brandonbrown at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CO2 Kegging


I have a coke style soda keg system, and i cannot get the beer to hold
any
kind of head, i did a 6 1/2 gal batch and bottled the other gallon and a
half and they had a head, but the stuff in the keg had no head at all.

Well, I force carbonate everything with 25-30lbs of pressure, but it
depends on your storage tempature. There are several tables that
describe, for the type of beer you are brewing, what is the correct
pressure for the style. Take a measurement of the beer's temp. (I
usually crash cool it first to almost freezing) and then look up the
pressure you should apply to the corny keg.

I tried everything you did initially and got frustrated. I found out
that unless you put 30lbs of pressure on the corny, release it and
then pump the pressure to the desired level, alot of these rebuilt
kegs will not properly seal and therefore leak CO2 and eventually
produce flat beer. If you are going to keg condition, I highly
recommend to mix in the sugar, hit the keg with 30lbs a couple of
times, relasing the pressure between hits, and then leave the keg at
room temp (or 65 if you can.)

This procedure solved my problems with kegging.

Now, head retention; that's another story!

Brandon
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:15:21 -0500
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Home cask-conditioning

The problem of staling of beer in casks is real when the beer is not drunk
quickly.  One solution may be to layer and purge with CO2, replacing any
air that may have entered the keg.  Of course you would not want added CO2
pressure to remain after the purge. Then vent when you get ready to pump
(so the pump works).  



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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:41:12 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Blue Corn Beer 

>>>>> "Ken" == Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> writes:

    Ken> Check HBD2238.  "Dutch" (no other name given) did a batch
    Ken> with blue corn, and reports that while the resulting beer was
    Ken> darker than expected, most of the blue color stayed in the
    Ken> mash tun.

Blue color in veggies is usually produced by a pH-sensitive compound
(sorry, I don't have the name at hand).  Unfortunately for the
prospect of making blue beer, it is reddish in an acidic environment,
and requires a neutral or alkaline environment to turn blue.  (QDA -
Questionable Data Alert:) I don't know for sure that this is the same
compound that makes blue corn blue.

I have seen the effect with "red" cabbage and onions, though.  This is
one reason that red cabbage is commonly cooked with apples.  The acid
in the apples keeps the cabbage from turning blue.

Unfortunately, beer is inherently acidic, so it seems unlikely that
one could make blue beer using blue corn, or potatoes, or whatever.

=Spencer


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:20:47 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Plastic Boil Vessel.

I had replied directly to steve at globaldialog.com when he requested info on
plastic boil vessels.  Now I have seen a number of replies from others so
it appears that quite a few people are doing it. I have been for about 9
Months--7 batches or so.  I use a different concept.  

Instead of mounting the heater(s) in the bucket, I mounted each one at the
end of a piece of pipe.  This way I can put them wherever I need heat.  I
made 3 units (120V, 1440W).  Each has it's own 20A breaker, GFI and switch
(one actually has an electric range heat control).  To warm up the
mash/sparge water fast, I put all three in the sparge water bucket.  When I
get the temp I want I move two to the boil bucket.  (If I just want to
boil, using all three will bring 5 Gal. to a boil in 20 minutes or less). 
If the mash looks like it will cool too much, I can put one in the mash tun
and (keeping it moving all the time) use it to both heat and stir.  During
the boil, one heater will yield a slow boil, two a very fast boil.  I use
one full on and the other one with the heat control to get just the right
boil.  Near the end of the boil, I preheat the immersion cooler in a
separate bucket of water with one heater then with 10 min. to go I put the
immersion cooler and all three heaters in the boil pot.  This way I over
come the initial cooling effect when sanitizing the cooler.

In fact I am always finding short cuts and simplifications because I have
these "heat sticks" or "wands" allowing me to put heat wherever I need it.

Two things to watch out for:

1) Never apply power unless the heater is submerged.  It will heat up to
burning in about 3 seconds.

2) Be careful about letting the heater contact the plastic bucket.  It
isn't a problem if you are heating water or low gravity wort.  The heat
seems to be conducted away fast enough to prevent any melting of the
plastic.  However, I once applied the heat as I stirred in some LME.  The
stuff settled in around the heater  where it touched the plastic.  Melted
right through.  (I was fast enough to catch it and transfer to another
bucket---good thing it was a stout, the color masked everything.)  I just
brewed a high gravity batch (1.090).  There was some indication that the
heaters were starting to heat the plastic.

After this I decided to redesign the way the heat wands are configured.  I
am changing from 1-1/2 in. PVC to 1/2 in. copper tube.  This will reduce
the bulk considerably.  I will also mount them in the tubing such that the
heater cannot contact the walls or bottom of the bucket.  I soldered up the
prototype tubing last night.  I just have to finish the wiring and seal
with RTV.  After the RTV sets, I'll be doing some testing. If anyone is
interested in the results, email me. at PCalinski at iname.com

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0 Degrees 30.21 Min North, 4 Degrees 05.11 Min. East of Jeff Renner       


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:15:17 -0400
From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Paddles/Pizza Scrims/Corny Relief Valves/Misc.





From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 01/26/99 11:15 AM

Dave,

When I made mine as a template for another for the local brew pub, we left
    them unfinished. Seeing that they get used in hot water and steamy
    environments we did not want to leach any chemicals into our beer. We
    even skipped the Oil on these hardwood beauties (White Oak and Maple)
    because of what that might do to diminish the head of our beers. We
    also drilled holes in the blade to increase the flow "through" the
    paddle thus making it easier to mash out doughballs. I still have the
    plans if anyone is interested.
- ---------
Dan,

I used a pair of 14" Pizza Scrims from Gordon foods $3 ea. I cut the band
    around the edge and with assistance of a putty knife I removed the
    screens. I then lined up the screens on a 90 degree angle to each other
    and wired them together with some twisties. I then traced a 11.25"
    circle on them and cut them down with some aviation snips. Going back
    to one of the removed bands I cut slits in 1/2 of the V band every 3 or
    4" doing the same on the other side but off setting them. I then
    "resealed" the scrims together with the band by hammering it down and
    then using a 10 penny nail to really crimp it on at the ends. WARNING
    the cut scrims and scrap are EXTREMELY sharp. I have done this
    operation twice and cut myself 3 times! My kegs have a 1/2" dip tube
    that goes through the center of the scrim. volume wise I loose maybe
    1/3 cup. I use at least an oz of whole hops in every batch to assure
    that there is enough whole hop to filter out the pellets Two would be
    better. I use an immersion chillier and also have a second fitting on
    the kettle with a 90 degree elbow used for whirlpooling. This pulls the
    hops into the center on the chiller. I get extremely clean wort out of
    the kettle. My chill times are 20 min this time of year and 40 min in
    the dead of summer. I usually let the chilled wort "settle" in the keg
    for a half hour after chilling to get the cold break settled while I am
    cleaning up anyway. The only scorch marks in my kettle came from
    evaporating all the water from a cleaned kettle. No caramelazation or
    anything around the edges of the scrim-unlike the ABT false bottom in
    my mash tun. Why anyone would pay for a commercial kettle scrim is
    beyond me, its just too easy to make. Commercial ones cost between $9
    and $100 bucks! I made mine for 6 bucks and three Band-Aids. I use
    Irish Moss less often than with and only when I remember in my
    non-German beers.
- --------
Robert,

My local brewpub regularly ferments under about 12-15 psi mostly with
    Nottingham and Windsor dry yeast's though they have experimented with a
    commercial strain of "Pressure Yeast". I tried to rig a similar system
    up on a homebrew scale but wasn't very successful. I don't know if I
    would want to trust a leaking PR valve to regulate the pressure. It
    could easily get clogged with krausen or hop gunk and build up   of
    pressure in your keg. I would love to see a theoretical/mathematical
    model of what PSI could be achieved by fermenting in a corny with no
    relief valve. My guess is that the pressure would stave off yeast
    activity before you would breach the keg at greater than 130 PSI.  I
    have coke kegs without any of these valves. Can they be retrofitted?
    What is there cost and where would I get them?
- ------------
Oxynator, yes I have one. Necessary--no. Useful? Absolutely. Does it help
    make better beer? IMHO-Absolutely. Shake it, Drop it, Whip it with a
    whisk, you just can't reach O2 saturation using atmospheric air...

Newbies--the biggest help we can give them is access to more knowledge.
    Thus I'd like to remind the HBD of the wonderful search engine Spencer
    has for searching the HomeBrew, MeadLovers and Lambic digests by year.
Its at...http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/cgi-bin/dothread

Bitburger Pils-Make and bottle a good German pils. Then place the bottles
    on a black driveway from 12 noon to 4 pm on a hot summer day.
    Refrigerate and drink ;<)

Kegging without CO2. The biggest problem here is getting  a proper seal on
    the keg after adding the priming sugar. If you don't have a CO2 tank to
    give you the 15 PSI or so needed to make a good seal--your sunk.
    Relying on just the forced close fit to create a seal is bad idea. The
    low pressure created fermentation and the slow speed it is produced at
    is not reliably efficient enough to create a good seal. IOW... the CO2
    will just leak out.

Sweetness-Not all sugars can be converted, inverted, perverted (just for
    you Fouch) Maltotriose for example. Thus they are carried over into the
    sweetness profile of the beer. I suspect that Carmelized sugars are too
    complex to be converted and that is why they carry-over so well.


Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewer
Warden-Prison City Brewers
AABG, HBD, AHA, BJCP, MCAB, ETC, ad nausium...
Jackson, Michigan.  A scant 31 miles west from jeff renner..




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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:23:08 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: RE: CO2 Kegging (no carb)

Bill Tonkin is having carb problems with his keg.

I've found that it takes a good week or more - not 4 days - to
carb the keg.  Doing it that way, anyway.  Are you sure there are
no leaks?  Did you check?

See my kegging page at 
http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/

for details.

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay		Nortel Networks
Norstar WinNT		613-765-6843 (ESN 395)
amckay at nortelnetworks.com


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:33:42 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: Cereal Cooking


Hi folks,

There is no doubt in my mind that under some circumstances a person  
might want to do the short cereal mash with the adjunct before adding it
to the main mash.  This instead of just cooking the adjunct and then adding
it to the main mash.

My problem is that I really don't like it when people start throwing around
imperatives like "make sure you do XXX", or "you MUST do YYY".  Simply
put, statements like this, when applied to the topic at hand, are false.  

There is no inherent requirement to do any such thing, so please
don't mislead less experienced brewers into thinking there is.

As for my part, I'll probably take most of this conversation and add it to
the appropriate parts of my homepages, so that people will be able to
decide for themselves whether or not they really need to do the
cereal mash.  IMO most folks don't have to.

cheers,
 -Alan
[ "flog, flog" : sound of me flogging this dead horse ;-) ]

- --
Alan McKay		Nortel Networks
Norstar Team		613-765-6843 (ESN 395)
amckay at nortelnetworks.com



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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:50:45 PST
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos at hotmail.com>
Subject: Ranco ETC111000-000

Dear Collective,

As most of you might know, I reside outside the US, and as such have 
problems obtaining certain equipment from time to time for our beloved 
hobby of homebrewing. Thus, I have a question about how I might be able 
to get my hands on a Ranco electronic temperature controller, which has 
been recommended highly by many readers of the HBD. Grainger seems be 
reluctant to do business outside the States(they haven't replied about 
my internationally registering with them). So I'm stuck, and don't know 
any source for one of these controllers to control my new chest freezer. 
Does anyone have any suggestions? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Greg Soh.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:02:22 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Rheingold Extra Dry---It's back! What's that hop?

ThomasM923 at aol.com
>I really
>want to know what kind of hops Rheingold uses in the current reincarnation.
 I
>love that hop. I think it might be Tettanger, but I'm not sure. If anyone 
with
>a good taste for hops could try a can, and tell me what you think it is, 
I'd
>really appreciate it.

 From The Bushwick Pilsners:  A Look at Hoppier Days , by Ben Jankowski,
Republished from BrewingTechniques' January/February 1994.
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.1/jankowski.html

The Beer 	Original	Final	Apparent	IBUs	Hop	 Color
	Gravity	Gravity	Extract		Type	(SRM)
	P     SG

Rheingold	12.4,1.050 1.014	3.24	29.1	**	2.8
Extra Dry
(1958)

**   Not available; assume various Cluster strains of the time.

My guess is that they may well have used Styrian Goldings or a noble hop
for finishing in addition to Cluster for bittering.

As fgar as not remembering that amount of hops, perhaps you were
remembering it after its heyday.  That is what "Extra Dry" referred to.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:00:58 -0600
From: "Crossno, Glyn" <Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com>
Subject: update: blue corn meal, Mashing Corn Meal Before Boiling

This is only one data point, and I have no references so page down if you
want to avoid heresy and rumor.

My last CAP, thanks again Jeff, used corn meal.  In the past I've used
flakes, easy etc.  Multi-step, single step, and cereal mash.  I have also
used wheat four for whites.

This time the Health food store was out of Flaked Maize so I got the corn
meal.  Added about 1/3 of the 6 row did a multi-step mash, and then to the
boil.  Yes I did get a tad bit of scorching.  Added all this back to the
mash tun to hit my single infusion temperature.  I was shooting for 12
gallons in the fermentor of 1.044 wort.  The sparge was VERY slow, took
about 2 hours and a lot of colorful words.

The end results was 13 gallons of 1.052 wort!  What caused the efficiency to
jump up that high? I had a similar sparge with flaked rye one time and the
efficiency did not jump.

So what is the moral of the story, I don't know, go ask your Dad.   But this
is the first time I've done the mini-mash and boil.  Next time I'm using
meal, I'll do it again!

Glyn Crossno
- ---------------
> Speaking for myself, if I need ignorance I don't exactly need to send out
> for it...I read the HBD to try to dispel ignorance, not to enhance it.
> ---Dick Dunn          
> 


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:54:06 -0700
From: jpugh at hjnews.com (Jeremy B. Pugh)
Subject: more basic yeast questions

Hello all,
        I recently posted several beginner questions and happily received
many helpful answers both in the digest and via private e-mail. Thanks for
making me feel welcome.
        However, I am puzzled about the difference between what I was told
and what I am observing with my current batch.
        In my questions, I explained I had followed the advice of my local
home brewing shop owner and not allowed my wyeast California lager
smack-pack to properly incubate. He said it would be fine. I smacked the
pack about 36 hours before I pitched at 66 deg. There was no visible
swelling.
        Most of the responses colorfully explained my local home brewing
agent was sadly misinformed and forecast dire results for my beer.
        However, my fermentation has been vigorous from 48 hours of pitching.
        I am brewing a steam beer using wyeast California lager yeast at
ale temperatures (currently 70 deg) which I plan to rack off to a secondary
in a few days and cool to 50 deg. Jan. 26 marks seven days of fermentation
in the carboy. But as I lay awake at night I have the following questions?
        -- Is the fact that I didn't let the pack incubate properly going
to affect my beer? That is,is the intensive growth of what I have been told
is too small a yeast population going to create too high alcohol levels or
off flavors?
        -- Is the higher temp offsetting the bad advice I received?

        Also, I seem to be having a similar problem as Drewmeister who
posted in 2933 but I am not sure it is a problem.
        HE WRITES: "I'm used to timing to racking to a secondary by watching
an airlock rather than a blow-off tube."

        My fermentation has been so vigorous that I have been unable to
keep a fermentation lock on. It bubbles over, which I caught before it blew
up like Drewmeister related. I've kept a sanitized blow-out hose submerged
in a pail of clean water, which I change often. Physicswise I don't see
much difference between this setup and an airlock anyway. Am I out in left
field?

Drewmeister also writes:
"It has been 16 days since I pitched the yeast.  Would you transfer to a
secondary NOW???"

Along those lines, I was anticipating racking the beer to my secondary on
the ten-day mark but the way this batch is fermenting I am not sure it will
settle down by then. Should I stick to my schedule or be patient and wait
for the activity to settle down?

Thanks in advance,

Jeremy B. Pugh, Logan, Utah
jpugh at hjnews.com

"Never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel." -- Mark Twain




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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:56:58 -0500
From: John_Doherty at cabot-corp.com
Subject: Ipswich (MA) Brewing Co.'s Ale - 3 Questions

Does anyone have any information regarding of the yeast strain used in Ipswich
(MA) Ales?
 Furthermore, has anyone personally cultured said yeast from a growler or
bottle?
And lastly, has anyone heard rumors of the sale of Ipswich Brewing Company?
After recently noticing a big drop in the amount of Ipswich in stores, I've
heard from one source that Ipswich had temporarily ceased operations in order to
complete their sale to a larger entity.  I'm told that they will soon resume
production of their full line of beers on an even grander scale, but my details
are frighteningly sketchy at best.

 -John Doherty




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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:45:33 -0500
From: "Tim Burkhart" <tburkhart at dridesign.com>
Subject: Over Attenuation

I have a question about over attenuation. 

I may have sampled too much brew at bottling time but when I took a
hydrometer reading for a recent batch, it had dropped from 1048 down to
1003. The yeast strain is Wyeast 1084 Irish ale. My mash temp was 152 F. 
w/
1.33 qt. per # of grain. I pitched 1/4 gal. of slurry into a 2.5 gal batch
at 72 F. The fermentation was rolling under two hours.

What generally could have gone wrong to produce such a low reading?  I'm 
not
looking to start a hydrometer vs. "xxxx" discussion, I will continue to use
a hydrometer in my brewing process. But I will also keep an open mind.

Would it be a good idea to do a forced fermentation test with this yeast
before I use it in another batch? TIA.

Tim Burkhart
Kansas City

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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:14:39 GMT
From: bdowell at crl.com (Brent Dowell)
Subject: Boiling Kettle False Bottom

I just purchased a false bottom for my 100 liter Italian boiling
kettle (I'm a 1 kettle kind of brewer) this weekend from Beer,Beer,
and More Beer.  Fits like a charm.  Thiskettle has a side spigot about
1-2 inches above the bottom of the kettle.  I had been using a copper
manifold, but found that it took a long time to drain the kettle once
the hops and trub collected on top of it.   

What I got working is a little piece of copper connected to a 45degree
connector connected to a short piece of copper with a 45degree cut on
the bottom  
[Cheap ascii drawing mode on, looks best with a fixed pitch font]
   |
   |
   -____|-----\
    ____|      \
        |---\___\
   |          \ \
   |           \ \
   -----------------------
   
[Cheap ascii drawing mode off]

Did a ten gallon batch this weekend and things worked pretty well.
With enough of a hose on the outside part of the ball valve, say about
2 foot of draw, it is able to siphon out nearly all of the liquid in
the kettle.  The only problem I had was that I was doing a fairly high
gravity brew with about a pound of whole hops and found that I lost
about 2 to 2.5 gallons of wort to the hop flowers.  After letting them
sit on the false bottom for a while, A bit of the liquid did manage to
drain.  All in all, though I was satisfied with how it operated.
Oh yeah, The other details you asked for were: I Used Irish Moss, and
an immersion chiller.

All in all, I think I like this system a lot better than what I was
using before.




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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:25:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Kenneth Sullivan <Kenneth.Sullivan at Central.Sun.COM>
Subject: pellet hops = muddy beer & floaties

Howdy Brewers!  S.H.I.T. So Happy It's Tuesday !

I will never, ever use pellet hops again!  They clog my CFWC, they make
my beer cloudy, and when I dry hopped with pellets, it took a
month for most of the debris to sink, then I couldn't help
but get 'floaties' sucked into my keg!!

Does anyone out there have solutions to these problems?
When I used a hop bag and plug hops, I brewed bright & sparkling
clear beer. Now you can't even see through it!  It tastes great
but looks like mud :-(  If anyone has an EASY way to 'clear' this up,
I'd love to here from you!

Thanks to all,
KJ
Ken Sullivan, Kernel Support Engineer
Sun MicroSystems Customer Call Center
Broomfield, Colorado 80020
(303) 464-4633
kjsulli at central.sun.com



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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:25:36 -0600
From: Michael Valencia <ranger at centuryinter.net>
Subject: Old Malt Syrup

I opened an old jug of bulk malt syrup today only to find that the jug 
had a bit of mold around the cap and neck.  Being in the brewing mood 
and not wanting to waste, I used the malt to brew anyway just for kicks. 
 The question is, did I waste my time in using the syrup with some mold 
in it or will it be ok?  I boiled for 1.5 hrs and added 2.5 oz of hops.  
Understand, did not want to waste this bulk jug because I still had 
about 22 lbs. of syrup from the 33 lb. jug.

Hoping for the best,

M.V.

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Date: 26 Jan 1999 15:45:46 -0700
From: Jeffry D Luck <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com>
Subject: Abreviations

Greetings gurus...

I've only been brewing for a few months, and have been
reading HBD for a couple weeks.  Could someone help
me with the abreviations you guys use so freely?  Is there
a FAQ I should have read by now...?

These are the ones giving me trouble:

   RIMS
   HLT
   DME
   CAP

And while I'm at it, what is a 'sparkler'?  I assume by the
context of the posts that it gives good head (reason 
enough for wanting one, I suppose....), but what is it and
how does it work?

Jeff Luck
Salt Lake City, UT - USA


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:57:42 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: More about EM screens

  Although it would be cooler to have a permanent stainless screen for my
easymasher-clone, I bought a roll of the only non-plastic window screen at 
the Home Despot for a few bucks that's served me well.  When in need, I cut 
about an 8-inch square, wrap it around the whatever-the-technical-term-is-
for-the-drain-tube, 8-), secure with a ring clamp and fold the end.  

  It's kinda... ugly, but it's cheap, easy and has several layers of screen.
After brewing I take it apart (unroll it) and give it a quick rinse.  

  Now that it's too late I'll probably hear from everyone that window screen 
contains mercury, right? (or was that lead... aluminum?  memory just isn't what
it used to be. Dang! Is it nap time already?)

Steven W. Smith, Systems Programmer, caring nurturer, not a licensed therapist
Glendale Community College. Glendale Az.
syssws at gc.maricopa.edu


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:53:30 EST
From: Zerbphlatz at aol.com
Subject: longshot hibernator


I love this stuff.  Anyone have any clone recipes?  Pointers to recipes?
Preferably all grain, but not required.

TIA


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:14:08 -0500
From: "Brook Raymond" <brook at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: kegging without CO2 tanks

I'm trying to dispense from a corny keg using fermentation pressure alone.
This is because I'm too cheap to buy a cylinder, and I'm attracted to the
simplicity.  So far it hasn't been easy.  The obvious problem is that
pressure drops during dispense.  So the challenge seems to be to deliver
beer over wide pressure ranges or regulate the pressure.  I've learned that
large high flow valves are very necessary when trying to dispense at high
pressure.  What is the highest pressure one can dispense pure CO2 without
foaming.  I was surprised that yeast can generate 60 psi (of course that was
all foam).  This high pressure could be useful for filtration, or if it were
somehow possible use a regulator. Anyone try using a regulator?  I'm
thinking of using a multi-stage bank of filters to lower the pressure.

Brook Raymond


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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:27:06 +0000
From: "John W. Rhymes" <jwrhymes at mindspring.com>
Subject: Heart of Dixie Brew-Off, March 13, 1999

The Birmingham Brewmasters will host the 1999 Heart of Dixie Brew-Off 
on March 13, 1999.  We are committed to providing prompt, quality 
feedback on your entries.  We had an outstanding judging panel in 
1998 and all entries were evaluated by three judges.

Our special category is Potato Beers, requiring that 20% of the 
fermentables come from potatoes.  Last year's winner was a Sweet 
Potato Stout -- get creative and see what you can come up with!  
Recipes are required only for the Potato Beer category.

We are using the 1998 BJCP guidelines and accepting all styles except 
Cider.  Each entry is three bottles and costs $6.00, and should be 
received between February 27 and March 6.  See our web site at 
http://www.bham.net/brew/brew-off-1999.html for details, rules, and 
forms, or email your snail mail address to jwrhymes at mindspring.com to 
receive a copy of our mail-out.

Judges and stewards are encouraged to join us for a great weekend.  We
are providing "Beds for Brewers" in members' homes and discounted
hotel rates to keep your expenses down, and organizing events to make 
it a fun weekend.

John W. Rhymes -- Birmingham, Alabama
jwrhymes at mindspring.com


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