---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Of Momilies and Beer Bullets (spilikin)
  Materials for Washers and O-rings ("Bonnell, Doug")
  Cabbage pH paper (Jeffry D Luck)
  Response from St. Pat's (John Wilkinson)
  Re:Cask-conditioned Ales (Andrew Smith)
  N20 Stout-- Done That ("Eric R. Theiner")
  RE: Gluten allergy (Jack Baty)
  Re; Sanitizing Bottles (randy.pressley)
  Kelly's stuck lager and protein rests ("George De Piro")
  Head Retention and Gluten (Dan Listermann)
  Sanitation Again (Vernon R Land)
  barleywine (JPullum127)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Re: : Moldy 2-Row ("Michael Maag")
  Storage ("Richard Scott")
  Re: Corn Meal in CAP (Jeff Renner)
  Re: CAP update (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Bottling bucket necessary? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: beer bullets (Jeff Renner)
  blowoff loss/head retention (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  HopDevil yeast/dry yeast/Ispwich ("Jim Busch")
  filtering (Kim Thomson)
  re: kegging w/CO2, but without a regulator (PAUL W HAAF JR)
  Translation of Alan's Post on German HBD (Harold Dowda)
  Bottle Priming ("Eric Fouch")
  Bible Beer ("J. Glenn Ferrell")
  RE: GFCI, just curious ("Doug Otto")
  re: GFCI, just curious (John_E_Schnupp)
  re: old-style keg conversion (David Lamotte)
  Re: Keg sanitation (David Lamotte)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:57:55 -0800 (PST)
From: spilikin <spilikin at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Of Momilies and Beer Bullets

Amen!

<snip>

Or you could take my approach- Look honey, you got two choices:  I
brew all day Saturday and you bitch, or I brew all day Saturday and
you *don't* bitch.  Your choice.  Get me a beer.

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick BeerBulletAmmoDump
Kentwood, MI
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:44:23 -0700
From: "Bonnell, Doug" <DBonnell at BreeceHill.com>
Subject: Materials for Washers and O-rings

Some discussion has occured about what types of washers and O-rings
might be suitable for brewing equipment. I'd like to contribute this
chart, which is trimmed down from information supplied by
McMaster-Carr on their web site. I'd like to see comments on which of
these materials would be considered "food grade".

               Buna-N (Nitrile)    Viton        Kalrez       Silicone
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Temp. Range     -65 to +275F   -31 to +400F   0 to +500F   -65 to +450F
Compression Set     Good           Good        Excellent       Good
Tearing             Good           Good          Good          Poor

Abrasion          Excellent        Good          Good          Poor
Cold Water        Excellent        Fair          Good          Good
Hot  Water          Good           Poor      Not Recomm'd      Good
Dilute Acids        Good         Excellent     Excellent       Good
                        
                                 Ethylene
                Polyurethane    Propylene       Teflon       Neoprene
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Temp. Range     -60 to +200F   -65 to +300F  -300 to +500F  -40 to +212F
Compression Set     Good           Good          Poor          Good
Tearing           Excellent        Fair          Good          Good

Abrasion          Excellent        Good          Poor        Excellent
Cold Water          Fair         Excellent     Excellent       Fair
Hot  Water          Poor         Excellent     Excellent*      Fair
Dilute Acids        Poor           Good        Excellent       Good

*Excellent to Boiling

These rating would refer to how well the material stands up, not how
well your beer would taste.  :-)

Doug Bonnell
dbonnell at breecehill.com
              



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Date: 29 Jan 1999 09:37:26 -0700
From: Jeffry D Luck <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com>
Subject: Cabbage pH paper

Matt in Cincinnati, OH wrote

>I wonder if 'red cabbage' indicator solutions would be sensitive
>enough to use for mash pH (I don't mash yet).  I also wonder if you
>could make your own pH paper, by dipping paper in a solution of red
>cabbage juice and letting it dry.
>
>Once again, jumping on the 'QDA - Questionable Data Alert'  

My kid rented a video from our local library called "My First Science
Video".  It contains detailed instructions on making pH paper from, 
you guessed it, red cabbage.  If you're interested in the process go
find the vid, but the answer to your question is 'yes'.

Jeff Luck
Salt Lake City, UT - USA


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:57:03 -0600
From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Response from St. Pat's

I wrote in an earlier post to HBD that I had e-mailed St. Pat's about their
Moravian malt but had received no reply.  As she points out in her post to
HBD #2940, Lynne O'Connor did respond to me and I suppose I should have
mentioned that in a post to HBD.  I have only bought one thing from St. Pat's
so far but their service was fine and I will probably buy from them again.
I don't want anyone to think my comment was further bashing of St. Pat's.
It wasn't.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:37:57 -0800
From: asmith at apollo.org (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re:Cask-conditioned Ales

>Another interesting point (just for grins) is having worked in British pubs
>and american bars I noticed a huge difference in the way waste is treated.
>Those after-work keg finishing parties usually earned Jerome an ass-chewing
>from his bosses. Waste was death, especially in a chain-pub. A barman could
>earn an ass chewing for too many overpours, handpulls and co2 propelled
>both.

The stringent measures used by British pub-chains to avoid wasting beer
aren't really a positive aspect of the business. Landlords are often
penalised if they aren't bringing in the right amount of money for the
amount of beer that they've received, which has often led to landlords
selling short measures to make up the money, or having to sell beer that
has gone off a little, or even to (notoriously) watering down beer to make
up the volume. Of course, it works both ways, and large breweries have
traditionally been wary of landlords writing off spoilt beer which in
reality was good beer that was sold normally. Perhaps this doesn't happen
in the USA because there isn't the tied-house system here.

Bad beer is very common in certain pubs - we always used to say, "Oh, they
don't clean the lines properly." Also, really good beer isn't very common
in touristy central London - not in terms of well-cellared real ale,
anyway, although it is there.

Another way of dispensing real ale, occasionally seen in small country pubs
(the kind which consist of one or two small rooms) is simply by gravity.
These are called taprooms, and the casks are stored behind the bar. Instead
of pumping the beer up from the cellar, the glass is simply filled straight
from a tap attached to the cask. This often results, however, in VERY flat
beer - too flat for my taste.

A question: I often see in the HBD that Microbrewery X uses commercial
yeast Y. Do many of these breweries develop their own yeasts, or do the
yeasts themselves change because of the size of fermenter, wort gravity,
etc? Or is the golden age of each brewery having its own distinctive yeast
long past, and we're merely living on the metaphorical (and literal) dregs
of long-established breweries? What do people think?

Cheers,
Andrew Smith




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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:49:47 -0500
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: N20 Stout-- Done That

Sorry about the long delay in throwing this in-- hope ya'll are still
interested.

I force carbonated a stout with whipped cream chargers about 2 years
ago.  I used mini-kegs, and force-"carbonated" with a whippit cartridge,
then another.  Yes, it did dissolve in the beer.

Odd thing, and I'm not going to open my CRC to try and explain this, but
it actually took 4 capsules to get to the level of "carbonation" I
wanted.  Maybe I had a leak in my mini-keg.  The head was indeed quite
creamy, and didn't hold gas in suspension very well at all-- or at least
it didn't have a carbonated mouthfeel to it.

The nitrous did seem to have an effect.  This was an exceptionally
relaxing beer and brought on effects that I do not attribute to alcohol
intoxication.  (Nothing unpleasant, mind you.)  In fact, this beer
seemed to bring on a bit of a buzz much more quickly than I would have
expected from this particular stout.

So try it out, and have fun.

Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.



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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:19:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Jack Baty <jack at wubios.wustl.edu>
Subject: RE: Gluten allergy

> Subject: Gluten allergy
> 
> 	My father is allergic to gluten and, therefore, cannot have malted barley.  I
> just bought Charlie Papazian's Home Brewer's Companion and it says that
> persons allergic to "grass family" cereal grains might be able to have beer
> made from buckwheat, amaranth, quinoa, spelt or kamut.  Does anybody have any
> recipes made from these grains or know where I could find them?
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> Chad Humphry
> 

  A St.Louis Brewser, Sean Sweeney, has been exploring this exact problem.
  See his web page
    http://www.fortunecity.com/boozers/brewerytap/555/gfbeer/gfbeer.htm
  for his experiences.

    Jack Baty
    St.Louis, MO


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Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:51:28 -0500
From: randy.pressley at SLKP.COM
Subject: Re; Sanitizing Bottles

I'm in the stick all the bottles in a 20 gal bucket full of Chlorox 
water and forget about um camp.  One caution, however.  When 
I first did this I purchased a 20 gal bucket with wheels.   These 
wheels are not made to handle this kind of weight.  By the way
before you fill this bucket make sure you have it where you want
it because it aint goin nowhere after you fill it.  Well the
wheels fell off the bucket and without the wheels it will not stand
up.  So buy a bucket without wheels.  Now I can't get rid of this
garbage can without wheels.  It's hard to get the trash guys
to take a garbage can as trash.


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:01 -0800
From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com>
Subject: Kelly's stuck lager and protein rests

     Hi all,
     
     Kelly writes, with regard to Weyermann malts:
     
     "I heard with this Vienna and Munich malt a protein rest
     is the right thing to do."
     
     Back to me:
     
     A protein rest is the wrong thing to do for the following reasons:
     
     1.  High-melanoidin malts like Munich and Vienna are very well 
     modified.  The maltster wants to create as much free amino nitrogen 
     (amino acids) as possible so that there are plenty of reactants for 
     the Maillard reaction.  Sugars and amino acids combine in this 
     reaction to from melanoidins, which range in flavor from malty to 
     bready to caramel and many other things.  They are important flavor 
     and color compounds in beer as well as other foods.
     
     2.  Not a whole lot of protease survive the high temperature kilning 
     of these malts, anyway (especially dark Munich), so you are wasting 
     your time.
     
     3.  As Steve Alexander and I have recently written, protein rests are 
     not only a waste of time these days but can damage your beer, too:
     
     a.  Providing too much free amino nitrogen in the wort can increase 
     ester levels, so if you are trying to make a squeaky clean lager you 
     are hurting the odds of succeeding.
     
     b.  Breaking down the larger proteins will also reduce the body and 
     head potential of the beer.  Note that I said "will," not "may."  The 
     necessity of proteins for good body and head retention is 
     indisputable.  Whether or not you destroy enough of them during a 
     protein rest is another thing, though.  That is why you may be able to 
     perform a protein rest and still get decent heading and body in your 
     beer.  Why do something that is likely to do more harm than good, 
     though?
     
     All of the malts I have seen available to brewers in the US are well 
     modified (if you can believe the spec sheets, which I do).  Even wheat 
     malts can be mashed with a single step infusion.  I brewed a Wit beer 
     with 45% homemade Pilsner malt, 45% raw healthfood store wheat (good 
     thing my mill was adjustable), and 5% oats with only a 20 min. 
     excursion through the protein rest range and had no trouble lautering 
     the wort.  If you can do that with that grain bill, you should be able 
     to skip the p-rest completely when using 100% commercial barley malt.
     
     On to Kelly's real question:  why did the high-gravity half of his 
     wort get stuck at 1.030 while the normal gravity aliquot fermented to 
     completion?
     
     I don't know.  Here are some educated guesses:
     
     1.  You pitched more yeast into one fermenter than the other.
     
     2.  You mention that the high-gravity batch was relatively free of 
     break material while the other was not.  Break can serve as both a 
     yeast nutrient and a CO2 nucleation site.  Too much CO2 does inhibit 
     fermentation.  Agitating the carboy twice per day may release enough 
     CO2 to allow the ferment to finish.  Good beer can be made this way 
     (I've done it, as have many others).
     
     If you are afraid of leaving the beer on the primary yeast for a 
     prolonged period of time (because of autolysis), rack the beer and add 
     a fresh dose of yeast.  Lager yeasts tend to be more forgiving with 
     regard to autolysis than many ale strains, and the low fermentation 
     temperature also helps prevent autolysis, so you may be OK.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George de Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:25:17 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Head Retention and Gluten

Jim Kingsburg asks about head retention improvement.  He should ask his
local homebrew shop to order some Weyermann "Carafoam."   As I understand

it it is a dextrine malt that improves head.  Crosby and Baker import it.


Chad Humphery asks about gluten free beers.  I have made a buckwheat beer

however I have yet to perfect my malting techniques for this grain.  The
malt would not convert itself so the beer I made was 66% buckwheat and 
33%
6-row pale.  I have another batch of malt to try.  The problem with the
buckwheat is that it does not germinate evenly ( or at least evenly
compared to barley ).  I am starting to think that buckwheat picks up 
water
much more quickly than barley.  


You can buy dehulled buckwheat in health food stores and it will 
germinate.
 The buckwheat that I have was sent to me by the farmer and it still has
its hulls.  It lautered very well.

Dan  Listermann                  dan at listermann.com

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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:39:56 -0500
From: Vernon R Land <vland1 at juno.com>
Subject: Sanitation Again

My last batch of pale ale got off to a slow start due to what I believe
were lower than normal temps. in my primary.  After 48 hours and no
activity, I decided to raise the temp. and add another packet of
Nottingham.  Once the temp. came up, fermentation started and everything
was fine.  I was expecting an infection due to the long lag time after
reading many posts on the subject.  The beer came out better than
expected.   I have violated many "sanitation rules" in my short career as
a home brewer and still haven't managed to get an infection.

Sanitation Violations:
1) Hairy arm inserted into cooled wort up to armpit prior to start of
fermentation looking for rubber thingy - no infection
2) No chlorine soak for 5 batches of beer bottles, simple rinse with tap
water - no infection in any bottle
3) 48 hour lag time - no infection
4) Wort cooled in driving rainstorm with no lid - no infection

Vern Land
Sanitation Blasphemer

___________________________________________________________________
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:40:26 EST
From: JPullum127 at aol.com
Subject: barleywine

i just finished racking my barleywine to a secondary. og=1098,f.g.=1.032.  so
i certainly got my 2/3 attenuation from the wyeast scottish ale yeast.  i was
wondering about others experiences with adding champagne yeast to get a couple
more points down or should i be happy with what i have? it certainly tastes
wonderfull at this point. i think it will be fantastic new years eve. thanks
for your thoughts    marc


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:44:30 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report
Corny Kegging and Pressure....
	A simple technique, even for those that wish to prime their kegs, still
requires  at  least 5 lbs CO2 pressure from a CO2 tank to seal the thing...
	By applying CO2 pressure from a CO2 tank, while the handle is
'unlocked'...... lifting the entire keg by the locking handle will seal the
keg.....you can usually hear the gas escaping from around the o-ring until
the o-ring pops into place....... at  that point, even if the internal pressure
is higher than that desired, relief of pressure to the chosen degree will
not unseat the o-ring......
	Until that o-ring seats....you can throw all other equations out the
door......even if you do wish to prime; with a corny, you must have a tank
source of CO2 to seal the thing.....

Mold in the Brew...
	George De Piro abuses me verbally and asks about an old episode...
	Whilst  at  LABCO, in the pre-failure days....the flex tube from the grain
auger lift, down to the tun, was often just left in the top port of the tun,
used for only the purpose of grain dough in.....
	Of course, water vapor from the tun, over the 90 minutes of mashing
employed in those days would rise into the flex tube, and up to the head of
the augur......where it would meet the flour of milling.......
	One day, I started to mash-in, and cranked up the mill....while it was
operating, and before I could 1) get the first bag of grain to the hopper,
and 2) before I could place the flex tube into the port for 'grain-in', I
saw 'sheets' of 'crap' fall to the floor.....
	After I shut the mill down, I found that these 'sheets', some up to 3
inches thick, consisted of a thick moldy sponge like material...
	Of course, I didn't mash in until the Head Brewer arrived...He stated that
it didn't matter, as "It all get's boiled in the kettle anyway."
	And, sure, there may be no bacterial follow from the auger to the
fermenter, but as for flavor?
	Despite instructions to the contrary, I cleaned out as much as I could
without an actual dismantling......
	After the brewpub failed, and I was appointed the Head Brewer in the
reorganization, the first task was to clean that auger, and throw away all
the flex tube......
	Very simple procedures then were implemented to prevent future
occurances.......
	But as for the quality of the beers prior to the changes....Well, some were
OK.. The majority sucked........
	Guess this goes in the category of a Brewpub that didn't stay competitive
by virtue of it's food....The food sucked too...
	Eliminate mold.......especially in your ingredients....

>From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Carbs&Gelatinization/yeast growth
	Steve, the added requirements to this study were a yeast extract (Difco) as
the nitrogen supplement, ergosterol (Sigma Chemicals), and Tween-80 (Sigma)
as the unsaturated fatty acid, oleic acid.....
	The most interesting point to me was, that the generally limiting factor on
growth, i.e., the 0.1% lower limit of sterols in daughter cells was never
reached in the assays of the resultant yeast crops. "In fact, the lowest
limit reached was 0.48%......"

>By the way Rob - were there any technical details on the water to beer
>conversion process ?   ;^)
	No, but I'll let you know if I have any revelations......
Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
brewer at isunet.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:20:02 -0500
From: "Michael Maag" <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Re: : Moldy 2-Row


Kevin Brown says regarding a bag of malt:
I opened it this past weekend and found out the mold was also on the inside
of the bag.
When I transfered the malt to 5 gallon buckets for storage I noticed the
malt on the perimeter of the bag also had mold on it. My first thought was
just to throw it all out. Then I thought maybe it can be washed off before
crushing, however I really don't want to to spend a brew day making bad
beer from bad ingredients. Does anyone have experience with malt that has
had some mold on it? TIA

Here is my 2 cents:
Some molds which grow on corn, peanuts, barley and malt produce a toxin
called aflatoxin. Aflatoxin is a mycotoxin from some strains of Aspergillus
flavus and most strains of A. parasiticus.  Aspergillus has  a dark color
and is flourecent under UV light.  I have no idea what A. parasiticus looks
like.  Aflatoxin is one of the most carcinogenic substances yet discovered,
and is thought to be able to cause liver cancer in amounts in the parts per
billion range.   And, it is likely to make beer which has a moldy flavor.
Yuck.   The malt in the middle of the bag may be ok, but for $35 a bag, I
would get some new malt.
Mike Maag 8*)
Industrial Hygienist
In the middle of the Shenandoah Valley (Staunton Va.)



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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:08:49 -0600
From: "Richard Scott" <rscott57 at flash.net>
Subject: Storage

After I bought several pounds of Klages, I milled/cracked it and intended to
brew.  But, the holidays & business interrupted.  I kept it in double-bagged
paper sacks in the beer 'frig.  How long will it keep?  I know that I've
lost some its optimal characteristics.  Should I have stored it in plastic
burp-seal?  At room temp?  Do different cracked and uncracked grains get the
same "best treatment" practice?

Many thanks, as always.

Richard Scott
Coppell (Dallas) Texas



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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:41:47 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Corn Meal in CAP

"Crossno, Glyn" <Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com> asks:

>Having just bottled the Corn Meal CAP, CMCAP, I noticed a higher than in the
>past terminal gravity.  Did you have similar results.  Jeff R. have you
>noticed a difference in TG between CAP adjuncts?

Nope.  But I only used flakes a few times, then switched to coarse corn
meal and a cereal mash for all of the rest.  For the same mash regime, they
seemed to be the same - about 67 - 70% apparent attenuation for
40/60/70/76C.  I have switched to 65/70/76 for my last two all malt lagers
and got 75% aa, and I plan to use 40/55 (immediately add cereal
mash)->65/70/76C for my next CAP.  But, I'm also going to use rice (just to
see how it performs), changing two variables in midstream, so there won't
be much useful data on this.

There is historic reference (Wahl and Henius) for using higher mash temps
for lower aa and less alcohol.  This time I'm looking for a little crisper,
drier beer.  Of course, that means more alcohol for the same OG.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:53:02 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: CAP update

In my CAP update in HBD 2939, I left out:

Water - Low sulfate water is important for a clean bitterness.  If you need
to add Ca++, use CaCl2, not gypsum (CaSO4), which can give a lingering
harshness to the bitterness.  I've used deionized water with 1 tsp.
CaCl2.2H2O/5 gallons, but usually boil my temporarily hard well water,
decant, then add CaCl2.2H2O.

Of course, 100+ years ago, brewers probably used the water they had, but
some water was know to make better beer than others.  I suspect that water
affected the bittering levels used.  Low sulfate water encouraged higher
hopping levels, while high sulfate kept hopping low to avoid harshness.
(QDA!)

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:11:34 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Bottling bucket necessary?

>"Gregory M. Remake" <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu> asks:

>I've always racked my wort from the secondary carboy to a bottling bucket
>for bottling.  Is this step necessary?

and lists the advantages he forsees and asks for disadvantages.

One good thing about racking once more is that you can bottle with a lot
less yeast carryover.  When I bottled, I would fine with gelatin in the
secondary, which gave me nearly crystal clear beer (usually ales) over a
firm yeast sediment.  I managed to have no more yeast in the bottle than
the thickness of a coat of paint.  Aesthetically pleasing.  Gives a clear
glass of beer with no careful decanting.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:18:31 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: beer bullets

Jim DiPalma <dipalma at omtool.com> wrote:

>My own approach is to simply get out of bed on Saturday before the wife
>does, and mash-in. She hates brewing smells, so this approach never
>fails to send her fleeing to the nearest shopping mall for the day. A
>very small price to pay, IMHO

Mrs. DiPalma to girlfriends over tall latte at the mall:

"You know that stuff doesn't really smell that bad, but I carry on about it
and get to shop all day at the mall!"

Shopping bullets!

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:28:47 -0500
From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
Subject: blowoff loss/head retention

collective homebrew conscience:

ian smith asked about how to prevent losing beer due to blowoff.  i use an
oversized carboy, 7 gallons, for primary fermentations, and there is plenty
of headspace to prevent any loss at all.  there has been an increase in my
beers' head retention and hop presence, both bitterness and flavor, since
i've been using this method (about the last 15 batches).  

the possible disadvantage is that the dirty krausen substances (break
material, hop residue, etc.) remain in the fermentor.  some sticks to the
sides, but most falls back into the beer.  this is true also for top
fermenting yeasts that floc to the top during the hop drive.  i'll bet if i
backed down to a six gallon fermentor, i could have most of the dirty
krausen stick to the top and sides, or get blown out, along with some of the
top fermenting yeast, if applicable, plus lose less beer and foam-positive
material than in a 5 gallon carboy.  unfortunately, i have 7 carboys
already, and another would be overkill, plus it would use up a beer bullet.

by the way, i have no formal education in brewing, only hands-on experience
for 7 years (about 80 all grain batches), along with reading a few texts and
the hbd for a few years.  the above info. is based on experience alone, i
have no journal articles or research papers to validate any of my advice,
nor the time to look them up and evaluate them objectively.

brew hard,

mark bayer
great mills, md


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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:05:42 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: HopDevil yeast/dry yeast/Ispwich

Charley inquires about a good yeast to clone HopDevil.  Wyeast 1056 
is probably a fine choice and will get you close enough.  HopDevil 
yeast originated from Seibel around '90 and was acclimatized to 
unitank production since then with some single cell selections by a 
good yeast Dr. along the way.  Its a voracious performer that can 
easily produce 11% ABV when pitched at high enough cell counts.

As for the discussions regarding dry yeast, Ill just note that when 
you pay $200 to Weihenstephen hefebank you get a cotton ball 
impregnated with dry yeast.  At least thats the way the weizen #68 
came in.  Course after one gen of growth its no longer dry right?

Interesting consolidation news/rumor with Ipswhich.  I believe that 
Clipper City in Md contracts for Ipsw, I wonder if that will continue 
for long.....

Prost!

Jim Busch

Enjoying a nice 7.5% Belgian Strong made with yeast from the upcoming 
Golden Monkey Tripel.....ummmmm good yeasties!


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:21:03 -0600
From: Kim Thomson <alabrew at mindspring.com>
Subject: filtering

Alan Dowdy writes about filtering beer.

Alan, sounds like you did it right but I'm going to guess that you had
already carbonated the beer which does lead to much foaming.  Try it
again on flat beer.  It will still foam from dissolved CO2 but not as
much.

Kim Thomson
- --
ALA-BREW
Homebrewing Supplies
Birmingham, AL
http://www.mindspring.com/~alabrew/
Full Service Home Beer And Wine Brewing Supply





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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:26:01 -0500
From: PAUL W HAAF JR <haafbrau1 at juno.com>
Subject: re: kegging w/CO2, but without a regulator

If I were to attempt this I would make it simpler.
Ferment a real batch of beer in your 2nd fermenter.
Make a hose to connect the two gas 'in' posts.
Connect the kegs as the 2nd is fermenting and CO2
  is needed.
Drink from the first keg.
When first keg is empty and the 2nd is done fermenting,
  transfer and prime and start all over.
If your really lazy, clean first keg and make new batch, 
 and simply make the 2nd keg the first and visa versa.

It's really easy to make a gauge to check the pressure of
your kegs.  It even looks sorta like a tire pressure gauge.
Use a gas 'in' connector, a dial gauge that goes to 30 lb
 pressure, a couple of brass fittings and/or a
very short (3"-5") piece of hose and hose clamps.

Paul Haaf 
(Add witty remark here)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:58:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Harold Dowda <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Translation of Alan's Post on German HBD


Mit vielen Entschuldigungen zu Gothe und zu Alan. 


Greeting God! 

If you do not know, there is also a German HBF  which one can find at 

http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/forum  

The output is not unfortunately as regular <regelmaesig>, as the
English (1 or 2 times a week, in each case only 2 to 5 messages), but
it is very interesting. 

In the German speaking <deutschspraegigen> countries one begins with
different points of view [concerning brewing], from us here. <[bad
translation, Alan?]e.g. such as information posted by beginners,
however one sees this only rare on this [HBD] page. Thus one
learns many different things, which one would otherwise never see [by
visiting other sites?]. 

In addition it adds also good brewing gossip homepage: 

http://www.bier selbstgebraut.de/wwwforumindex.html 













_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:45:28 -0500
From: "Eric Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net>
Subject: Bottle Priming 

HBD'rs-

Gregory asks about the necessity of the bottling bucket.  I have recently
retired my bottling bucket.  And not in favor of kegging (too many walking
hormones in the house):
My beers have been dinged recently in evaluations for oxidation.  I must
have a high tolerance for oxidation, as I can only pick it up in my beers
if they are light styles and 10+ months old.  At any rate, the only source
for oxidation in my process that I could find was racking to a bottling
bucket and bottling.  This is my solution:
I prepare about 10% more bottles than I think I'll need-  If I'm bottling
~5 gallons (~52 bottles) I'll prepare 57 bottles by dissolving the amount
of priming sugar needed for 57 bottles in 600 ml or so of water, and boil
it.  Then I take the volume of priming solution and divide it by the number
of bottles:
650 ml / 57 = 11.4ml/bottle.  Then using a syringe, I "innoculate" each
bottle with 11 ml of solution.
I think this solves a number of problems:  No transfer to a bottling bucket
(oxidation opportunity and an extra bucket to clean).  The end of the
bottling wand can be submerged below the surface of the priming solution,
eliminating that "gurgle, gurgle" when you start filling the bottle.  Also,
transferring straight from the secondary, the beer will be saturated with
CO2.  This CO2 should come out of solution in the bottle (instead of the
bottling bucket), allowing for some purging of the headspace.  I don't need
to know how much beer to prime (in the fermenter), I just prime extra
bottles, and rinse them out when I'm finished bottling.
I like bottling, too.  Lots of beer types "on tap", and I have a "thing"
about stacks and rows of things.  Bottles.  Deer Carcasses.  Cordwood. 
Dirty Three Packs.  Why- I almost joined The Royal Society For Putting
Things On Top Of Other Things.  If only they hadn't been disbanded for
being silly. 

Make no mistake-  I will someday keg.  Just so I can look at stacks of
kegs.

Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood MI

"Are you tryin' to say Jesus can't hit a curve ball?!"
 - Major League
 


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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:32:13 -0500
From: "J. Glenn Ferrell" <GSBS at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Bible Beer

Rob Moline (aka: Jethro Gump) wrote:
<One HBD'r has pointed out some features of the story that do 'jibe', not to
say that he necessarily agrees with the GBN story...personally, I would like
to invite him to share his information....and will in private e-mail....>

I'm the one who previously wrote Rob privately.  I rarely post to HBD but
try to read faithfully.  Didn't want to post off topic.  However, I am
interested in the history of beer and find the orgins of beer in the
middleast fascinating.  I even believe that brewing might be used to trace
the movement of ancient peoples and/or cultural influence from the fertile
crescent into central asia and across northern Europe to the Germany and the
British Iles.

Anyway, I had previously posted privately to Rob concerning his 'Jesus and
Beer' post:

>I have an interest in beer in the Bible.  In Hebrew and therefore also in
Aramaic (closely related language) the word for beer was "shekar"--usually
translated "storng drink" in KJ Bible.  This word comes over into Greek as
"sikera"; wine is "oinous".  Although one or more of the gospels may have
had an Aramaic form or oral tradition before being translated or rewritten
into Greek, we have none of these surviving today.  The gospel of John is
the only one that mentions the wedding at Cana.  There is a fragment of this
gospel in Greek from before 70 AD.  So, any Aramaic original had to be very
early indeed. 

I have no doubt that beer was common and drunk very widely in Jesus' time
and before (see Deut. 14:26--from maybe 1450 BC--where Israelites were
instruted to purchase and drink wine and beer).  I do not doubt that Jesus
drunk beer (and alcoholic beer too, no doubt!).  There were early
translations of the Greek gospels into a form of Aramaic.  I have not
studied these.  If these used or substituted the word "shekar" for the
substance produced by Jesus in Cana, that would indeed be interesting.>

Then again after another exchange:

>Thanks a lot for your response.  I looked again and found the article
<http://www.globalbeer.com/web/p2.html>.  Certainly not a scholarly article
or very accurate (ie. based on the bias that the New Testament was witten
and altered over a period of several centuries; which I believe very few
serious scholars would argue today).  However, it (this topic) is very
interesting.  As I said before, I have no doubt that beer was drunk in 1st
century Palastine.  In Luke 1, John the Baptist's father was instructed
before John was born that he was to eat neither drink "wine or strong
drink", not because Jews of that time were teetotalers, but because John was
to live under a special vow and set of rules.  Anyway, the word for "strong
drink" here is that Greek word "sikera", which was a translation of the
Hebrew word "shekar".  Shekar might be some alcoholic drink other than
fermented grape juice--cider, mead, etc--but very likely it was a fermented
grain beverage.  Shekar is the word for beer in Israel today.

Wasn't trying to pick on you.  I always enjoy your reports and will continue
to read with great interest.  Nor was I offended in any way by this post.
Just like to check out the source of such information.  There was truth
there in that beer was a common drink in 1st century Middle East (most
people don't know that) but there was some confusing and incorrect data too.
Guess I'll have to run down what Michael Jackson says about this.>

Let me add now:  My research seems to indicate that barley may have been the
first cultivated grain in the middle east (fertile crescent and Egypt) and
that it was used to make a fermented beverage very early in history.  I
think it could be argued that beer was fermented before bread was baked or
that the two went hand in hand.  Some have suggested that civilization
itself may even be one of the benefits of the development of brewing.  A
settled non-nomadic lifestyle was necessary for the cultivation of grain and
brewing of larger quantities of beer.  A thirst for beer may have been one
of the powerful motivating factors towards the development of cities.

Glenn, brewing Biblically correct ale
like my Anglo-Scot-Irish-Confederate-American ancestors did
in the Appalachian hills of Kentucky.




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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:06:16 -0800
From: "Doug Otto" <dotto at calweb.com>
Subject: RE: GFCI, just curious

One thing that you may have failed to realize in your infinite wisdom is the
fact that within a household shower, it is very unlikely that the fitting is
plumbed to hot water alone.  Since the cold water line in most cases is a
very good ground, the need for a GFCI on the hot water heater isn't real.

I don't see where the need to belittle folks who are taking the appropriate
safety precautions should become a part of this forum.  You state that
perhaps this "need" comes from folks who simply don't know electricity.
That is exactly, why "advanced brewers" should spout "safety information" at
every opportunity.  Many folks who turn to this forum, simply don't have a
firm grasp on this type of thing - that is the exact reason why a GFCI
belongs on their setup.


Begin ignorant rant:
>It doesn't seem to damn likely that someone is gonna stick their head or
>hand in a bucket of boiling wort and get electrocuted, but I guess it
>could happen. Most people never give a thought to the fact that their
>electrically heated water coming out of the shower head isn't GFCI
>protected.

- --
Doug Otto
Sacramento, CA
dotto at calweb.com



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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:51:21 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: GFCI, just curious

>Hmmmm....

GFCI detects an unbalanced current flow between the hot and neutral line.
If there is more than (I think) 10 mA difference the circuit is
disconnected.  The device assumes that the current has found a different
path to ground.  There could be many reasons for this different path to
ground, one of which is thru your body.  The GFCI protects humans against
electrocution.

The circuit breaker is a device that detects excessive current flow in the
hot side of the circuit.  Circuit breakers are selected based upon the
current carrying ability of the wire they are connected to, and the wire
size is based upon the maximum current drawn by the load.  The circuit
breaker protects against electrical overheating and fire.

If you happened to be holding onto a electrical device that was not on a
GFCI and the current found a better path to ground thru you, you would
most likely be DEAD.  The circuit breaker will not protect you because
by the time the 20A (or whatever size) breaker detects an over current
condition, smoke has long been rolling out your eyeballs.  Yep, your
eyes will explode right out of their sockets.  Your eyes are basically
water in a sealed container.  Get then heated (that's one of the products
of passing current thru a your body which is basically a big resistor)
even by a little bit and the pressure on the eyeball increases dramatically
according to PV=nrT.  I digress, the things you can learn in an
industrial safety class.  Electricity really is take way too lightly by
way too many people.

About your water heater example.  The heater coil is constructed in such
a way that the part that touches the water is ground (equipment ground) and
the inner portion (heat producing part) carries the load.  Also the tank
is connected to the equipment ground and unless there are no copper pipes
in you house, they too are connected to ground (usually earth ground).
If there is a failure in the heater coil, the hot line will be connected to
ground (equipment or earth).  This is basically a short circuit.  A short
circuit draws a large amount of current and the breaker trips in short
order.  At no time is the current presented with the opportunity to take
a path to ground other than its design path or a short circuit, the water
can not become electrically hot.

This is the way I understand it.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  I'd rather be
ultra SAFE than ultra DEAD.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Brewery
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:44:12 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: re: old-style keg conversion

Jim Suggs asked "is there an easy way to seal that hole, or better
yet, use it for something useful?  Or am I going to be stuck trying to
get a plate welded there?"

I have been using such a keg for a boiler for many years.  Even though
I have a welder, I have never gotten around to patching the bung hole
on the side.  I simply got a solid rubber stopper from my local brew
shop and popped it in the hole.  A couple of light taps with a hammer
and it hasn't moved in over 5 years.  After the first couple of
batches I would tap it out for cleaning, but now just scrub around it
with a brush after the boil.  

You could even use a drilled stopper if you wanted to insert a
thermometer etc.

Have Fun...

David Lamotte
Brewing Down under in Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.




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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:41:15 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Keg sanitation

Rick Georgette in HBD #2941 asks if he should be concerned
about sanitizing the quick disconnects and associated fittings on
kegs.

While I have not performed any microbiological studies on my fittings,
I consider that the risk of infection is minimal.

However, I have found that a quick squirt of isopropyl alcohol (70%)
should not only kill any nasties, but it also acts as a lubricant
allowing them to slip on smoothly.  

Prior to this I was going through 'O' rings at an alarming rate as
they are very stiff at fridge temps, and were easilly damaged.

Have Fun...
David Lamotte
Brewing Down Under in Newcastle N.S.W. Australia



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---