---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  pH Meter (BrwrOfBeer)
  Best way to clean SS? (Matthew Birchfield)
  Candi,candi,candi... (ThomasM923)
  RE Computer Controlled? (Marc Hering)
  Flow Valves in Breweries (Rod Prather)
  Re: Chill Haze (Scott Abene)
  PC Controlled RIMS (Ken Schwartz)
  Vacuum Distillation/Computers (AJ)
  13th Annual Big and Huge: Call for entries and judges (Great Taste of the Midwest)
  Low Extraction Efficiency (OCaball299)
  Phil's Phalse Bottom (Dan Listermann)
  Pico brewing systems and stands (Mitchell Surface)
  Milling grains (Dan Listermann)
  Re: Computer Controlled brewing ("Peter J. Calinski")
  more on hop devil clones (jim williams)
  The Jethro Gump Report/Part 1 ("Rob Moline")
  The Jethro Gump Report/Part 2 ("Rob Moline")
  diacetyl pils (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  Batch sparging and pH control (Dan Cole)
  Vacuum evaporation and anti-foaming agents ("S. Wesley")
  Re: Why RIMS these days? (Paul Shick)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:25:08 EST
From: BrwrOfBeer at aol.com
Subject: pH Meter

I have been all grain brewing now for about 2yr.  I have never checked my pH
reading before.  All beers were good.  Now I want to start reading mash pH
readings.  Can anyone suggest a good pH meter that is not over say $150.oo.
If so where would one find it.  Any help would be appreciated.

Scott 
Hillbilly Hoppers
Knoxville, Tn


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Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:46:33 -0500
From: Matthew Birchfield <peridot at usit.net>
Subject: Best way to clean SS?

Hi All!

I just purchased a double tap tower to install in the top of my
keg refrigerator.  I found it at a local surplus shop that
specializes in restaurant equipment and got a great deal on it. 
It's in good shape, but it smells like stale beer and needs a
good cleaning.  What's the best way to clean it thoroughly?

I guess what I'm really asking for is your recommendations for
the best cleaning solution and/or technique to use.  Is there a
commercial cleaner I can soak stainless steel in without hurting
it?  How 'bout a solution I can mix at home?

Also, somebody recommended something called "Barkeeper's Friend"
for cleaning stainless steel, but I haven't been able to find
any.  Has anybody tried this product?  Am I wasting my time
looking for it?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.
- -- 
Matt Birchfield
Blacksburg, VA


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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:41:20 EST
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Candi,candi,candi...

A few people have asked lately about how to make candi sugar. Eric Fouch
suggested a simpler approach: use cane sugar and save yourself a bunch of
trouble. I would tend to agree with that sentiment, however...
Why do Belgian brewers use an expensive (compared to plain old cane, that is)
ingredient instead of just throwing in a few pounds of Domino? Is it in any
way different from cane? Inverted, perhaps? What difference does inverted
sugar make?
TIA...

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:47:14 -0500
From: Marc Hering <mhering at acd-pc.com>
Subject: RE Computer Controlled?

I responded to a gentelman yesterday who wanted to know about setting up a
computer control for a RIMS system,  As I mentioned Radio HAck sells a
Serial interface kit that allows you to do some basic things. (used to turn
on and off lights mainly)but in reality all you need is a serial cable and
a little electronic know how to build a device to do this, I have built a
few devices that were serial controlled for a few school projects,, so
building an interface should not be too hard,,,as to the thermometer,,you
could probably get somthing from radio shack or MCM cataloge that would do
the trick,,as to building the interface,,if you know serial programming
then you are already past the hard part.  Let me know how you make out as
this is something I am interested in following,,,
Marc 

[SNIP]
	On some distant planet, someone wrote...................

>>Has anyone created an interface to actually control boil/mash temps with a
>>computer?  Or even logging your brew session or fermentation with your
>>computer (having it automatically record the temp at certain intervals).
>>I've had some experience talking through serial ports with Perl, and have
>>programmed in Java, C, C++... as well. Unfortunately, I don't have the $$
>>for digital thermometers - can anyone point me to a cheap one? In any case,
>>I'm interested!

>>Shane Brauner
>>Shane at Uh.edu

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WILL be charged a $100 proof-reading fee. See US Code Title 47,
Sec.227(a)(2)(B), Sec.227(b)(1)(C) and Sec.227(b)(3)(C).
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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:33:32 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Flow Valves in Breweries

I have noticed during several ongoing discussions that Ball Valves have been
referred to as being used for flow control.  Ball valves serve well as shut
offs but they are terribly non linear and don't work well as flow control
valves.  Is there any reason why gate valves couldn't be used for flow
controls or am I missing something.    I seems that a gate valve would give
much better flow control.



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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:13:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chill Haze

Glyn Writes:

> While enjoying my latest CAP I was thinking, (always a mistake), "If
I could
> get rid of the chill haze this would be perfect."  This one was corn
meal,
> cereal mash, single infusion.  Great Head, last for quite a while.
> 
> So do I need a SHORT protein rest. At 130? 135?  10 minutes?

Well personally I am going back to old habits that include a protein
rest. I like clear beers and that protein rest that I don't need
always gave them to me. 

Hey! What ever happened to Tracy Aquilla??? I miss that quality of
comments. 

Anybody know what has become of "Good Ol Tracy"?

C'ya!

 -Scott "Starsky in Plaid" Abene


==

ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT
Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net>
http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)

"The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS"
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:36:07 -0700
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: PC Controlled RIMS

Shane Brauner writes:

> Has anyone created an interface to actually control boil/mash temps with a
> computer?  Or even logging your brew session or fermentation with your
> computer (having it automatically record the temp at certain intervals).
> I've had some experience talking through serial ports with Perl, and have
> programmed in Java, C, C++... as well. Unfortunately, I don't have the $$
> for digital thermometers - can anyone point me to a cheap one? In any case,
> I'm interested!

This was a project I was considering some time ago when RIMS looked like
the answer to all my brewing needs (though I could never convince myself
enough to actually build one...).  I have suggested in the past an
inexpensive card made by ComputerBoards ( http://www.computerboards.com
) which has eight 12-bit A/D inputs, eight digital outputs, and eight
digital inputs.  They also have a variety of interfacing software which
might make simple work of a complete RIMS software/hardware package.  An
LM34 or LM35 temperature sensor could easily be attached to the analog
input, and one digital output is used to drive the solid-state relay for
the heater element.  Additional inputs and outputs could control
solenoid valves or sense fluid level switches or operator input.  It's
interface is through simple I/O reads and writes (PEEKs and POKEs in
BASIC, for example).

For more info on the ComputerBoards card, go to the website above and
follow the links through "Analog Input & I/O : ISA : 12 bit or less" and
select the CIO-DAS08JR ($149, used to be only $99!).  Info on the
temperature sensors can be found at
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM34.html , and you can even order free
samples (!) at the bottom of that page.

- -- 
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com


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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:22:28 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Vacuum Distillation/Computers

S. Wesley asks about the evaporation rates of alcohol and water. The
ratio of the partial pressures of ethanol and water in the vapor coming
off the mix is the product of the ratio of the mole fractions of ethanol
and water in the solution times the ratio of the vapor pressures of the
two at the temperature in the solution.

P(EtOH)/P(H2O) = [ x(EtOH)/x(H20)]*[VP(EtOH)/VP(H20)]

i.e. the Rubber Handbook has the data sought.

The ratio of the partial pressures is the ratio of the number of moles
per unit volume thus the ratio of  weights of the two substances can be
determined by multiplying by the ratio of the molecular weights
(46.07/18). At 5% ABV (4% ABW), using the 20 C vapor pressure ratio
(2.5) in the post, the pressure ratio is about 3% EtOH but, as the
molecular weight of EtOH is greater than that of water the mass ratio is
about 8% EtOH i.e the vapor is richer in alcohol than the beer but not
by much.  As the alcohol concentration goes down, the ratio goes down
proportionally. At 0.5% ABV (a typical target for LA beers) the vapor is
about 0.8% ABW. You can evaluate the implied integral numerically with a
spreadsheet as "S" has indicated. To get to 0.5% at 20 C requires, by my
calculations (I make the ratio of VP's to be closer to 2 at that
temperature), that 68% of the water be distilled away (to be made up
again with distilled or tap water).

This rather discouraging result brings us to the importance of using a
column where good separation of components is required. Just as do the
distillers (Howard & Gibat citation), brewers measure alcohol content by
mixing 100 mL of beer with 50 mL of water and then collecting 100 mL of
distillate. At this point, the distillate is considered to contain all
the alcohol in the original beer sample. Using the spreadsheet
integrator with a VP ratio of 3 (it's close to that value at 100 C)
shows that 3.7% of the alcohol remains in the distilling flask (and thus
the measurement would be in error by 3.7%) so that if the beer were
really 5% it would be estimated at 5 - 0.037*5 or 4.81%. The way around
this is a column or head. The head contains a cup of some sort through
which the enriched vapor from the distilling flask must pass and into
which some of it condenses. This condensed liquid has a higher mole
fraction of alcohol than the liquid in the flask. Thus the vapor over
this liquid is richer still in alcohol and it is this twice enriched
vapor which is carried over to the condenser. The plumbing is arranged
so that eventually the condensate overflows its little cup and returns,
minus some but not all alcohol, to the distilling flask. This reflux is
absolutely essential to the proper operation of a still.

If one cup enrichens the vapor, additional cups will do so even more so.
A column is similar to a head except that it is usually a cylinder
packed with small glass balls or beads. The general theory of operation
is the continuous extension of the cups theory and a colum is rated in
terms of the "number of theoretical plates" i.e. the effective number of
cups.

Thus to get to 0.5% ABV without having to distill away 2/3 of the water
in the full strength beer a head or column will have to be rigged. As
this must be able to condense the distillate, it will have to be cooler
than the distilling "flask". This could be done by placing the
distilling vessel in a warm water bath and having the column/head at
room temperature or by having the distilling vessel at room temperature
and the column/head packed in ice somehow. A return path for the reflux
must be provided.

It should be evident from the preceding discussion that determining the
sucess of the experiment will require that the alcohol concentration of
the processed beer be measured. The ASBC distillation method gets a bit
questionable when the alcohol content gets low. "S" mentions his
research work and has .edu in his e-mail address so he must have access
to lab gear. A UV spectrophotometer, perhaps? Roche makes a handy (if
somewhat expensive) kit for measuring low alcohol levels. It uses NAD+
in the presence of ADH and ALDH to oxidize EtOH to acetate. The amount
of alcohol is determined by measuring the spectral absorbance of the
NADH created. This method is  specified by the ASBC for low alcohol
beers.

A final comment or two
 - Reading back over this it looks as if I know a lot more about
distillation than I really do. I have never made LA beer this way (or
any other way).
 - Much of the enjoyment of beer comes from its aroma and aroma comes
from volatiles. Volatiles are swept away by distillation, vacuum or
otherwise.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Shane Brauner asked if anyone has used computer control or logging
during brew sessions. When I put together my rig I laid out considerable
$ for a fancy PID controller with RS232 interface. It (the I/F) was
defective when the device was shipped and I went through month's of "the
guy that did the firmware isn't here anymore" etc.  before  they finally
took it back and replaced the obviously defective board. I then logged
temperatures using a simple FORTRAN program which just read the serial
port and wrote the data to a file compatible with the visualization S/W
I use. After a couple of months of this (neat plots) the RS232 failed
again. Somehow I am managing without it (the controller still controls
and that's all I really need). I feel better just writing this without
even having to mention the name of the people that sold me this thing.



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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:38:23 EST
From: Great Taste of the Midwest <greattaste at juno.com>
Subject: 13th Annual Big and Huge: Call for entries and judges

* 13th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition *

The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild proudly sponsors the 13th Annual
Big & Huge Homebrew Competition. Homemade beers will be evaluated by the
trained palates of experienced beer judges.  Beer evaluation sheets will
be returned to every entrant with helpful comments and advice.  Awards
will be granted in five award categories of big and huge flavored beers
covering all BJCP style classifications that meet the minimum gravity
classifications.

The Best of Show beer will receive the coveted Wooly Mammoth plaque. 
Come to the competition to participate in the homebrew exchange and meet
other brewers and beer enthusiasts.

The competition is sanctioned by the Beer Judge Certification Program and
will follow its competition procedures.  Each beer will be evaluated
based on its big and huge flavors as well as characteristics of the BJCP
style specified by the brewer.  Please contact us if you are interested
in judging or stewarding. 

When: Sunday, March 28, 1999
	12:00 pm (Drop off preregistered entries)
   	1:00 pm (Judging begins)

Where: Wonders Pub, 1980 Atwood Avenue, Madison, Wisconsin

Entry Fee: Guild Members - $4 per entry, All others - $5.

Entry Requirements: Three 12 ounce or larger bottles per entry.  Bottles
and caps should have no labels or identifying marks.  Attach one
completed entry form to each bottle with a rubber band.  Include an entry
fee check payable to the Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild.  Please do
not enter beers that do not meet the minimum O.G. standards shown below. 

Categories			Original Specific Gravity
(1) Big Ale and (3) Big Lager		1.050 to 1.060
(2) Huge Ale and (4) Huge Lager	>1.060
(5) "CMS" (Ciders, Meads & Sakes)	>1.050

Any BJCP style may be entered (and should be identified as such) provided
that:
	a) a minimum original gravity of 1.050 falls within the style
guideline.
	b) YOUR beer of that style is at least 1.050 (or >1.060 for huge
entries)

What this means:
	1. No ordinary bitter, kolsch, Berliner weiss, or other very low
gravity styles because an "in-style" beer of those styles should not be
as big as 1.050.  (Save them to enter in another competition, or bring
them to the homebrew exchange/tasting part of the event.)
	2. Beer styles that top-out (according to the style guidelines)
at 1.050 are okay--but only if YOUR beer is 1.050.
	3. Styles with guidelines straddling the 1.050 mark (for example
1.045-1.055) may be entered as long as YOUR beer is at least 1.050.
	4. Styles with guidelines that fall both in the "big" or "huge"
classification should be entered according to the OG of YOUR beer.

(Beers entered in the wrong gravity category will be judged, but are
ineligible for awards.)

Entry Deadline: Deliver entries to Big & Huge Competition, c/o Wine & Hop
Shop, 1931 Monroe Street, Madison, WI 53711 until Wednesday, March 24. 
Affix a copy of the registration form to each bottle with a rubber band. 
Preregistered entries may be brought to the competition on March 28th
between 12:00 and 1:00 pm.  To preregister, deliver, fax or email a copy
of the registration form for each entry (or its information) by
Wednesday, March 24th, to Steve Klafka, Big & Huge Czar, 508 Elmside
Blvd, Madison, WI 53704, fax #(608) 255-5042, email: sklafka at execpc.com

Homebrew Exchange: The day of the competition we will feature a homebrew
exchange.  Bring up to three (3) different homebrews to exchange for
samples of homebrew provided by other brewers.  At a minimum, put your
name and beer style on each bottle, but personal labels and recipes are
also welcome.

About the Sponsors: The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild, Ltd. is a
nonprofit club devoted to the brewing and appreciation of well-made
beers.

More information and entry forms:
Contact Steve Klafka at 608-255-5030 (day), 249-0231 (evenings), email:
sklafka at execpc.com.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino, Vice President
Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild and the Great Taste of the
Midwest<sm>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:27:17 EST
From: OCaball299 at aol.com
Subject: Low Extraction Efficiency

Greetings to all,

Well I thought I would get a head start on a batch of Maerzen/O'Fest today and
got the Traditional O'fest/Maerzen recipe out of Fix's Vienna, Maerzen/O'fest
book. The recipe is as follows: 

8.5# - 2-row Pale Malt
6oz - German light Crystal Malt
6oz - German dark Crystal Malt
6oz - English Caramel Malt
4% AA equivalent Hops (I used 2oz - Hallertauer for the boil & 1oz for finish)
I used Wyeast 1007
OG = 1.059-1.063
FG=1.012-1.016

I got an OG 1.038 instead of the expected 1.059-1.063.  I got a really good
crush from my Corona mill and thought I would be in pretty good shape.  I
mashed in at 155F for 90 minutes occassionally stirring.  Luckily I had about
1# of DME and was able to get the OG to ~1.050... close enough for what I had
to work with.

I have 2 questions: 1 - how can I improve my extraction rate
				      2 - Did he get his OG by doing a decoction (I didn't)

This is the 2nd batch in a row where I got a low OG.  I'm starting to think
I'm forgetting something...

TIA

Omar Caballero - Aurora, IL
"Live long and prosper" - Mr. Spock
 ... and have another Homebrew!


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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:30:35 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Phil's Phalse Bottom

Some seem to have problems using this false bottom.  I think that I can
safely say that I have beeen using it longer than anyone else.  My 
prefered
way to use it is to perform the mash in another vessel and tranfser the
mash to the lauter tun as Papazian  outlines in TNCJOHB.  The bottom will

not float if this is done gently.  


If one does want to do the mash and the lauter in the same vessel, you
should not add all the water before the grain or the bottom will float. 

Adding the grain to all the water is not a good practice anyway.  It can
lead to balling.  The best way to strike the grain is to add the grain 
and
water pan for pan while mixing between additions.  This keeps balling to 
a
minimum and the enzymes are exposed to a more even temperature.  Further
the consistancy of the mash can be adjusted as you progress. 


 A mash can over-compact during the mash so it should be rousted and
stirred before  attempting to lauter.  Underletting a little sparge water

through the false bottom  while stirring is the traditional English 
method.
 Before vorlaufing ( recirculating) you should let the mash rest and 
settle
a bit for 5 to ten minutes.  Do not rush the setting of the mash filter
bed. Drain the first runnings slowly. This is the major cause of stuck
mashes.  If a mash does become stuck, underlet and stirr again just as
before.

Last Sunday I mashed and sparged 17.25 lbs. in a ten gallon Rubbermaid
cooler with a 12" bottom without event.  It should make a nice bitter.

Dan Listermann          dan at listermann.com

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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:49:23 -0500
From: Mitchell Surface <msurface at fortwayne.infi.net>
Subject: Pico brewing systems and stands

I'm wanting to get back into brewing after a couple of years away and 
looking into getting a Pico-Brewing system. I'd like some feedback from
some of the people on the list who have one of these. I'm especially
interested in how people have arranged the kettles (i.e. single tier, 
two tier, etc) and how easy the system is to clean. But any comments 
about Pico and their system will be welcome. Public or private mail
would be fine. I'll provide a summary to the list if needed.

My other question is about stands. I've looked at some of the systems 
on the web and noticed that most of them are using metal frames. I 
don't weld and don't know anyone who does. I'd like to use a wooden 
stand, with perhaps a sheet metal top, but have the obvious concern 
about putting a 170,000 BTU gas burner on a piece of wood. Has anyone 
done this?

Thanks to everybody who's made the HBD such an interesting place over 
the years!

Mitchell Surface
Fort Wayne, IN
msurface at fortwayne.infi.net


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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:18:09 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Milling grains

The other week Jack Schmidling posted the following:

<  If you look at the oft published drawing of a six roller
>  mill, you will note that the roller spacings are about
>  .050", .030" and .012" from top to bottom.  It just so
>  happens that, when an adjustable MM is set to near contact
>  at the adjustable end, one gets those same numbers at the
>  fixed end, center and adjustable end respectively.   The end
>  rusult is that the random distrubution of grain across the
>  length of the rollers provides about the same grist
>  distribution as a six roll mill."

This might be true if the six roll mill was not adjusted to produce the
so-called "textbook" crush as outlined in the "Practical Brewer." Years 
ago
I bought a set of seives to develop the Philmill.  I tried to reproduce 
the
claims made by Jack's promotional material with an adjustable Maltmill. 

The distribution in these claims is very close to the distribution 
outlined
in the the "Practical Brewer" which shows a roughly bell shaped
distribution.  The distribution I found over and over again ( and in
public) for the Maltmill in any adjustment configuration, including the 
one
Jack describes above, was better described as a exponentially decreasing
curve.  I have not found the data that Jack publishes to be remotely
reproducible even with multiple passes and adjustments between passes.  


Someone (?) will point out that I am not without interests here and they
are right.  I am willing to lend my seives to others who might want to
attempt to reproduce Jack's claims.  It is kinda fun!  Just ask.

Dan Listermann          dan at listermann.com

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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:36:14 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re: Computer Controlled brewing

In HBD 2959 "Shane Brauner" <GossamerDP at pdq.net> wrote:



Has anyone created an interface to actually control boil/mash temps with a
computer?  Or even logging your brew session or fermentation with your
computer (having it automatically record the temp at certain intervals).
I've had some experience talking through serial ports with Perl, and have
programmed in Java, C, C++... as well. Unfortunately, I don't have the $$
for digital thermometers - can anyone point me to a cheap one? In any case,
I'm interested!

My response:

(1) See Ken Schwartz's page at 
       http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
I used the info there to build a four channel unit.  Four transducers, one
Digital Panel Meter (from BC micro -- <$10) and a selector switch.

(2) If you want to go into your PC, I have used an A/D converter chip into
the printer port.  Works OK but the only info I have is for the old printer
port nibble and byte modes.  I haven't been able to come up with the
Status/Command specs for new EPP modes.  Sure would be nice for multiple
channels.

(3) Another alternative I have looked into but never implemented is using
the sound board.  It has the 2 microphone inputs (left/right).  If you have
a newer sound board it is DC coupled and should work.  Mine is older and is
AC coupled.  Cutoff not far below 20 Hz so it wouldn't work in this case. 
You can get the sound board specs from the Creative Labs web site.  Sorry I
don't have the URL anymore.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0 Degrees 30.21 Min North, 4 Degrees 05.11 Min. East of Jeff Renner


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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:45:49 -0800
From: jim williams <jim&amy at macol.net>
Subject: more on hop devil clones

After looking at the post on cloning this amazing beer, I've come up
with a recipe I would love to be critiqued:

Here goes:
5.5 gallons
projected og 1.065
Projected IBU-75 (Glenn Tinseth's calc)

Malts:
6# Great Western Pale
6# domestic munich (10L)
1.25# crystal (40L)

Hops:
1 oz. Columbus (13.9%)    60 min
1 oz. Centennial (9.9%)     30 min
1 oz. Centennial (9.9%)      15 min
1 oz Cascade (7%)                0 min
1/2 oz Cascade (7%)            dry hop

Yeast-Wyeast 1007

I plan on brewing this wed. so any feedback before then would be greatly
appreciated. Especially regarding the hop schedule. I was eyeing some
melanoidan malt today at the hb shop. Would this be totally out of line
with this beer, or would it be a good addition/substitution. I don't
know much about it, so... What about the dry hopping?

TIA, Jim




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Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:05:54 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report/Part 1

			The Jethro Gump Report
>From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
>Subject: Brown malt/historic porter
	Newer HBD'rs may also find it useful to review Graham Wheeler's
contributions to this subject. It was a very large file, so I broke it down
into 8 sections, I think. Go to http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/2348.html way
back in '97 and after reviewing the info in that issue, just keep clicking
on the "Next" Issue button, 'til you have found it all.
	Graham Wheeler is a well respected authority on this and other historical
beers, and is the author of "Home Brewing-The CAMRA Guide" and co-author,
with Roger Protz, of "Brew Classic European Beers At Home," and also with
Mr. Protz, the "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home."

>From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen)
>Subject: Star San
>I've abandoned using Idophor or percarbonate for most sanitation chores.
>Since the peracetic  sanitizer is not available to home brewers, I've
>settled on Star San, a foaming sanitizer. It always leaves a lot of bubbles
>which on the surface of the container.
>1.  What is the contact time for this sanitizer and if low levels?
>2. Can Star San be used as a NO-RINSE sanitizer; or, is the residual lethal
>to beer yeast?

	Dilutions of 1 US oz./5 gallons provides 200ppm, needing a contact time of
1-2 minutes. 5 Star states that this is a no rinse concentration. Check out
their page..  http://www.fivestaraf.com/products/cleaners/starsan.html
for more specifics.

>3.  I use hot PBW to clean, hot water rinse, followed by Star San to
>sanitize.  I think these are working OK for me?  This old dog can learn new
>tricks!

	I long ago converted to using 5 Star products, they rock. I prefer Iodophor
to Star-San, for the formers no-foaming characteristics, or  at  least
'less-foaming' than Star-San.
	But, I have recently dropped my use of a sanitizer from my routine, in
certain ap's, when following a PBW run and H2O rinse. It just doesn't make
sense to me.
	This goes back years for me. When  at  LABCO, I would setup for a brew the day
before, and always setup a 'loop' of hoses, to and from the receiving
fermentor and the Heat Exchanger, with a CIP'd Iodophor solution. Run it for
15/60, then first thing in the morning, run it again for 15/60, before
getting the rest of the brew going.
	On more than one occasion, when draining the Iodophor, I would find a
precipitate in the fermentor, appearing similar to the stuff one finds in a
rusty auto radiator. The first time I found this, within minutes of
knock-out, I opted to hose out the lines, HE, and ferm with city H2O, faced
with a 7bbl batch that had to go somewhere.
	Subsequent analysis by myself and others could find no traceable cause for
this, nor could the manufacturer's rep, who collected samples of the
precipitated solution, the Iodophor in question, and our water. All the
company in question (not 5 Star) said, in the written report, was "There is
no defect in the manufacture of this product." Right, that helped a lot.
	(BTW, I still see this problem occasionally, even with other manufacturers
Iodophor, and have still not yet identified the problem, though I tend to
believe that introducing the Iodophor into solution slowly has a beneficial
effect, but this does not seem to be universally true.)
	 at  a brewery I recently worked in, we were using a 75-80C PBW run to clean
transfer hard pipes, hoses, filter, and tanks. I find it hard to believe
that any beer spoilage org's can survive this treatment. A city H2O rinse
followed, and while there may well be some bacteria in that H2o, none are
'beer spoilage' org's.
	Similarly, when one considers the DE filter, it occurred to me that after
setting up the filter, all I was putting in the dosing tank and beer, was a
specialized 'dirt.' Sure, it's a stupid term, but in essence, it's just
another organic material. So why spend the extra money, and more to the
point, time, in an Iodophor rinse, prior to adding DE? Especially when you
have to do a water rinse if it precip's?
	So after consulting with an instructor  at  Siebel, he concurred with my
theory. On the DE he said that it was void of any 'food' for bacteria to
live on. He also stated that the bacteria in a modern city water system is
free of 'wort-spoilers.'
	Don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer in basically 3 chemicals for my
brewing arsenal....PBW, Iodophor, and acid washes, and am a firm believer in
5 Star's products. I use Iodophor for all fermentors, HE, hose loops before
brewing, but rinse the ferm/hose with city H2O before knockout. The HE gets
rinsed with the initial wort discharge, before being re-attached to the
hose/ferm. And I keep 5 gallon buckets for small bits and gaskets, and use
these parts with no-rinsing. I also CIP servers, and conditioning tanks with
Iodophor, and leave it for another quick run, if I am cleaning them in
preparation for using them in the next few days. After a water rinse.
	Sanitation to me is most critical post HE, and on the way to the ferm,
until the yeast has an opportunity to establish itself.
	Please spare me, or the HBD, any anguished cry's of 'foul' in response to
this information. I am aware that it flies in the face of all that I have
ever been taught here. I am also aware of the fact that a friend of mine,
not a member of my course, said that he was taught  at  Siebel that there is no
such thing as a no-rinse sanitizer, though I must have missed that part of
the lectures.
	I offer this only as a data point on my own procedures, incidentally, one
that has resulted in ZERO infections. As always, YMMV.

Cheers!
Jethro


Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Lallemand Web Site consultant
jethro at isunet.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



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Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:08:17 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report/Part 2

			The Jethro Gump Report/Part 2
>Subject: Reality Check-ing some "facts"
>Alan McKay wrote:
>I'm currently having an argument with a fellow in the on-line German
>forum...We both agree that going over 78C/168F in  your sparge is a bad
>thing.  But he says it's because over this temperature, you denature
>your enzymes, and since they are made out of protein (which they are),
>you therefore get hazy beer.

	I like my sparge H2O  at  176 F, but even  at  that H2O temp, I have never seen
internal mash tun temps exceed 165 F. Viscosity of run off is the point, and
I don't care if the enzymes are denatured in the tun or the kettle.

>Mark Riley Writes:
>>I've made several ales and lagers
>>without using a protein rest and have found that these very
>>same beers have a stubborn chill haze that won't go away
>>with "lagering".

	And others, like Scott Abene report the same problem. I, OTOH, can report
no such problems with single infusions, in commercial practices that include
operations that filter, as well as those that don't.
	FWIW, I use Schreier/DWC malts exclusively, with the exception of Briess's
flaked products, in the full range of single infusion temps, and with
Gusmer's/Vicker's DryFine and Gelatine in the secondary, and DryFine in the
server in no filter applications. These beers dropped brilliant.

>From: Bill_Rehm at DeluxeData.com
>Subject: Jacketed thermometers
>Does any out there know of anyone that sells jacketed thermometers for mash
>tuns and boil kettles?  What do I mean you may ask, it's a thermometer that
>has a sleave that it fits into thus the thermometer can be removed at high
>temps. without the liquid draining out the hole.<SNIP>

	Bill, these are called "Thermowells" and they are easily available. Most
are fitted with a 1/2 NPT thread to accept the thermometer, and can be
welded into your vessel.
	A quick review of my now incomplete inventory of brewing suppliers
'cattledogs' shows 4-6 inch wells around 35 US$, and bimetal thermometers,
1/2 NPT back connected 3 inch dial, 20-240F thermometers around 30UD$ and
up....
	I prefer to buy my stainless bits from dairy supply houses, as they are, as
a rule selling  at  approximately 50% of the cost of the same parts sold by
brewing suppliers. My favorite, formerly known as Midwest Dairy Supply in
KC, changed their name recently, and as my 'handy electronic organizer'
died, I can't give you their number. Check your local Yellow Pages for Dairy
Equipment Suppliers in your area..
	But, your question also illustrates the value of guides such as the
Brewer's Resource Directory, from AOB, and the Brewers' Market Guide from
Brewing Techniques. The former is US$ 80/60 for members of the IBS, and the
latter sells for US$12.95.
	BT's guide lists 42 suppliers of thermometers, many of whom I assume sell
thermowells. The BRD lists scores of brewing equipment suppliers.
	But, with no recommendation, never having used them, I will include the
name of an advertiser in BT's Guide that addresses your need....Trend,  at 
800-431-0002.

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
brewer at isunet.net
Lallemand Web Site consultant
jethro at isunet.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Lallemand Web Site consultant
jethro at isunet.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



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Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:36:52 -0700
From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Subject: diacetyl pils

I consider myself an accomplished all-grain brewer. My beer fridge displays
a respectable number of ribbons won for both ales and lagers. HOWEVER, I
cannot seem to brew a pilsner without the scourge of diacetyl! The
scorecard of my all-grain pilsners (both German and Bohemian styles) looks
like this: Crisp and clean-1, Diacetyl-7.

My latest attempt at a German Pilsner went like this:

11 1/4 lbs Weyermann Pils
3/4 lb. Belgian Carapils
pinch of Belgian Chocolate (for color)

1/2 oz. Saaz FWH
3/4 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh 4.8AA 60 minutes
3/4 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh 4.8AA 45 minutes
3/4 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh 4.8AA 30 minutes

SG - 1.049
FG - 1.012

Single infusion, no-sparge mash at 151 for 90 min. Mash thickness- 1.25 qts/lb.
90 minute boil, 30 minutes w/o lid, 60 minutes partially covered
Force cooled wort to 52F in 20 minutes
Aerated with pure O2 for 100 seconds
Pitched slurry from 4 qt starter - Wyeast #2206 Bavarian Lager  at  52F
Let wort settle for 4 hours  at 48F. Racked wort off cold trub
Active fermentation 8 hours after racking off trub
Primary fermentation 12 days  at  48F
Diacetyl rest for 2 days  at  60F
Secondary fermentation 4 weeks  at  38F
After 2 months in the keg - DIACETYL dominates aroma and flavor!!

Here are some recipe variations I have tried: Racking off cold trub before
pitching yeast, not racking off the cold trub at all, no diacetyl rest but
long secondary fermentation period, Belgian Pils malt, Moravian Pils malt,
decoction mash, two-step infusion mash with protein rest...

I've used Wyeast 2206 dozens of times with other styles without a diacetyl
problem. Looking back, the only significant difference in the one good
batch I brewed was that I didn't use any Saaz hops. Not much to go on.

Maybe I don't really know what diacetyl smells and tastes like but I know a
good pilsner and I'm not brewing one. Can anyone offer this stumped brewer
a hint about a style he so desperately wants to perfect?


Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Hamilton, Montana




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Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:22:24 -0500
From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: Batch sparging and pH control

I just finished my first batch using my new pH meter (phh-3x from Omega,
www.omega.com , no affiliation, blah, blah, blah), and had a few questions
to the collective.

My processes are sort of unique: I batch sparge (adding all sparge water at
one time, let bed settle, recirculate and then drain the bed dry) and brew
2.5 gallon batches (so anyone else out there, don't use my lactic acid
additions for your water and expect it to turn out the same).

My pH log goes like this:

Water (unadjusted) pH 7.8
added 1/8 tsp lactic acid, pH 6.8
water added to grain, mash pH 5.8 (I wanted 5.5, but this is close enough)
added 1/4 tsp lactic acid to sparge water, pH 5.5
added all sparge water to mash for mash out, settled at pH 5.7
when I had drained the grain bed dry, the last runnings were pH 5.8

(I did calibrate prior to the brew session, the pH of the tap water is
consistent with a prior reading with another pH meter and all readings were
temperature compensated by the meter.)

Does anyone see any issues with this pH routine? Anyone else batch sparge
and monitor/adjust pH through your session? Do batch spargers avoid the
problems that trickle spargers encounter with rising pH?

Dan Cole
Roanoke, VA
www.hbd.org/starcity/



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Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:49:05 -0500
From: "S. Wesley" <WESLEY at MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Vacuum evaporation and anti-foaming agents

One of the major obstacles to being able to successfully remove 
alcohol from beer by vacuum evaporation is dealing with the foam 
which forms when the beer boils at low temperature.  I used some Sam 
Adams the first few times I tried this and I wound up putting a very 
light bead of (don't laugh) vaseline hand cream on the thermometer in 
order to destroy the head. It didn't take much and it worked. Added 
somthing floral to the nose of the beer too.....

Does anyone have experience using the commercially availible anti-
foaming agents?  What are they made of? How do they work?  Will they 
be effective for this application?  




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Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:03:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Why RIMS these days?

 


Hello all,

	Bruce Tabor asks about why anyone would want to use a
RIMS setup in this "post-protein rest era?"  (A new acronym?
>From now on brewing dates should be "Year X PPR?")

	Bruce, there are lots of benefits of a recirculating
mash system, even if one skips protein rests entirely.  Perhaps
the most obvious are that recirculating the wort over an extended
period yields a very clear runoff into the kettle, a very uniform 
mash temperature and quicker conversion.  It also makes it easy to
employ a variant of the Fix mashing regime, with a 140F rest (to
emphasize beta-amylase action) and a 158F rest (to emphasize the 
alpha-amylase) of varying lengths, depending on whether one wants
a very fermentable wort (say 45 min  at  140, 15  at  158) or more
dextrinous (reverse the durations.)  

	One can get these benefits without any of the fancy 
electronics, though, if you have a burner, pump, and thermometer on 
your SS mash tun.  Such a "poor man's RIMS" makes it really painless
to produce 10-11 gallon batches with a sort-of single infusion.  These
days, my typical mashing regime now involves pumping in 7-8 gallons
of 165F or so water to hit 153F or so (with about 20 lbs of grain,) then
letting it rest for about 30 minutes without any recirculation.  The
temperature generally drops only about 2 degrees during that time, since
there's a lot of thermal mass involved.  Then I start the pump recirculating
and turn the burner on very low to raise the mash gradually to about 158F 
(over 10-15 minutes.)  After the wort clears, indicating starch conversion, 
I raise it to 164F or so as "mini-mashout," then begin the runoff.  All of
these tasks are much easier with a pump and burner than with my old
stovetop or plastic bucket methods.  Plus, I think that the added control 
and more uniform mash temperatures are helping me produce much more
predictable finished products.
       

   			Paul Shick 
 			Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH

 



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