---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  re open fermentation (Robin Griller)
  Pressure Cooker (Thomas S Barnett)
  tasting acuity - gift, not acquisition (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  New Orleans Responses ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  haze,filter cleaning and dry yeast (Cory Chadwell Page Navigation)
  Gutmann Hefeweizen (Thomas S Barnett)
  maple syrup/cara-pils/hydrogen beer/diacetyl in lagers (BrewInfo)
  re: no first place ribbon ("Curt Speaker")
  SEVEN GRAIN STOUT (Matney Davidson)
  homebrew shops (Linus and Lila Hall)
  Hop plants available ("Stephen Rockey")
  Poor Extraction Cause (Jack Schmidling)
  open fermentor well sort of (Ken Pendergrass)
  Re: Open fermenters. Well, sort of... (Tim Anderson)
  more Steam RIMS (Kyle Druey)
  Titletown Open V (Matthew Arnold)
  Save the Volatiles! ("S. Wesley")
  Cavitation in Pumps ("S. Wesley")
  how to insulate mash tun ("Billmeier")
  RE: Half Arsed Brew Shops ("Dr. Pivo")
  HBD's Demise (Bob.Sutton)
  easy open fermenter ("Dr. Pivo")
  NY City Spring Regional Competition Results (Kenneth B Johnsen <NADB>)
  Scotch Brites (Rod Prather)
  L.M.E. and Cornie Kegs (Rick Lassabe)
  Culturing yeast (Tyce Heldenbrand)


Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild's 13th annual Big and Huge - 28
March 1999:  Rules and forms at www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:29:12 -0800
From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca>
Subject: re open fermentation

Hi,

Long time lurker, never before poster here. Regarding the open
fermentation thing I agree that fermentation with plastic cover isn't
quite a true open fermentation, but it is not the same as carboy and
airlock. With a plastic sheet covered plastic bucket there would be much
more exchange of co2 etc. with the 'outside' than in an airlock system I
would imagine, so it is close to an open fermentation. Regarding the
article suggesting open fermentations would require filtered air etc.
Why? British breweries that do open fermentations do not generally use
filtered air. Many British homebrewers do open fermentations: rest lid
on bucket til yeast head begins to form then remove lid. See any of
Graham Wheeler's books (pub by CAMRA and Storey). I've done only one
truly open fermentation myself: it worked fine. The only reason to worry
about the air is airborne contaminants, which is a grossly overblown
fear in my humble opinion: once the yeast has taken over the wort there
is little to fear in most homes I would guess. Of course, if somebody
else tries it and has a bad batch, it must be due to poor sterilization
in the first place! :)

Robin


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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:32:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Thomas S Barnett <barnets at mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Pressure Cooker

Hello all,
	I'm thinking about buying a pressure cooker for wort
canning. Hopefully this will decrease the time spent in starter
preparation.  In the past i've spent a lot of money on beer related items
only to find that i could of spent a few more bucks and gotten much higher
quality, or spent less and gotten something more useful.  In any case,
it's likely that there are people reading the HBD that could have warned
me in advance. So, before i go out and buy a pressure cooker, is there
anyone out there with some advice on the subject?  What size should i look
for?  Are there particular brands people have had success with?  What
price is resonable, ect.?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks.
Tom Barnett.    



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:54:16 -0500
From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
Subject: tasting acuity - gift, not acquisition

> collective homebrew conscience:
> 
> ted m wrote:
> 
> <snip>...I think many Certified judges haven't tasted stellar examples
> >of particular styles.  I still vividly recall a very loud and officious
> >certified beer judge from western New York who sat in The Broad Ripple
> >Brewpub pontificating, yet he couldn't tell the difference between the
> >IPA and the ESB (both of which are absolutely classic there.)
> 
> 
> i have a british friend who moved to indianapolis about 4 years ago, and
> he ended up living in a house within walking distance of the broad ripple
> brewpub (he did this on purpose).  i visited him a few years ago and i
> must concur with ted.  the ipa and esb were very, very good, and dead-on.
> in fact, my friend believes the broad ripple beers surpass most of his
> favorite pubs' offerings in the u.k.(derbyshire).  he says they taste
> fresher.
> 
> i find it unimaginable that a person able to pass the bjcp exam could not
> distinguish between the two beers.
> 
> on the other hand...
> 
> i had a weizen that did very well in several competitions a few years ago
> (e.g., bos at memphis), and i sent it in to the national aha competition.
> it scored well in the first round, except for one (bjcp certified) judge.
> he wrote on and on about the "inappropriate hop flavor and aroma".  i have
> probably about 10 judges' sheets for that beer, and none of the other
> judges even wrote about hops.  the recipe had about 10 ibu's from one
> addition at 60 minutes for a 1.052 o.g.  the only way to perceive hop
> aroma was to drink it in a hop garden.
> 
> i'm sure there are excellent beer judges out there who have taken the bjcp
> exam and are certified.  i can tell you from experience there are people
> who have passed the exam and are about as adept at judging beer as my two
> year old son.  the certification check boxes at the top of those judges
> sheets guarantee nothing about a particular judge's ability to distinguish
> flavors and identify the probable causes of those flavors.
> 
> having said that, i am planning on taking the bjcp exam after i get back
> to stl.  my intention, when (if?) i pass, is to decline judging categories
> that i have little experience in tasting, of which there are currently
> many.
> 
> i have no affiliation or association with the broad ripple brew pub in
> indy, other than being a satisfied customer (try the scotch eggs - and
> check out the ceiling).
> 
> brew hard,
> 
> mark bayer
> great mills, md (for 5 more days)


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:14:51 -0800
From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: New Orleans Responses

I was amazed at all of the people who responded to my recent
question about what to see and do in New Orleans.  I heard from
Larry O'mahoney, Mark Nelson, Jeff King, Bob Carbone, Jim
Layton, J Brangan, Lee Menegoni, Dave Mercer, Jim Killalea,
Barry Wertheimer, Ken Pelgram, Paul Kensler, John
Wilkinson, Mark Garthwaite, Ron LaBorde, and Mike Vachow.
My thanks to all, and apologies to anyone I may have left out.

Several places rated multiple mention:

Crescent City Brewhouse in the French Quarter;
Acadian Brewery and Dixie Brewing Company in town;
Abita Springs brewery across the lake;
Cooter Brown's Tavern over by Tulane University
http://TurnipSeed.com/cooter_browns/ (350 bottled beers,
42 on tap).
Acme Oyster House in the Quarter
The Bulldog in the Garden District

I was also turned on to the Crescent City Homebrew Competition
and Crawfish Boil which will take place on April 17.  I was
scheduled to leave that day, but was able to put off my departure
until Sunday, so I'll be there to gorge myself on mudbugs and
judge at the competition if they'll have me.

Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to reply,

Randy in Modesto








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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 99 14:02:24 -0600
From: Cory Chadwell Page Navigation <chadwell at ssd.fsi.com>
Subject: haze,filter cleaning and dry yeast

Hey brewfans,

I recently purchased a filter that uses one micron cartriges.  I wanted to 
come up with a way to produce a non hazy beer for company and friends who 
might be spooked by a hazy product.  After my first batch with the 
aforementioned filter I still have a hazy beer.  What gives?  What is small 
enough to make it through a one micron filter and still haze up my beer?

Next, how do you clean these filters between uses?  I ran a few gallons of 
bleach water through the filter followed by a few gallons of tap water to 
clean and rinse.  Anyone have any experience with this?

Lastly, I've always perfered dry yeast.  I just rehydrate a packet and toss it 
in and within a few hours the magic of fermentation has begun.  Even with a 
starter the size of three grolsh bottles (I use grolsh bottles instead of 
erlemeyers), I just haven't had consistently quick start ups with liquid yeast 
so I rarely use it.  However on my last batch the tried and true dry yeast 
pooped out on me and I had to repitch after 24 hrs of no activity.  I'm trying 
to figure out what caused the failure.  Here are the factors I think are the 
most likely culprits.

 - cool temps, I pitched and set the fermentors in the garage while the temp 
was in the low 40's.  I didn't think it would be a problem but now I'm not so 
sure.

 - overly long rehydration, I rehydrated in a bowl of 90 deg F water, 
unfortunatley I left it in the water for maybe 25 min before pitching rather 
than the recommened 10-15 min.

 - poor wort aeration,  Same procedure as normal, drop cooled wort from boil 
pot to bucket then pitch yeast and shake the bucket for a few minutes.  
Normally not a problem but hey I'm open to suggestions.

If any of our local yeast guru's can make suggest where my problem may be I'd 
appreciate it.  I'm planning on brewing another batch in 2 weeks and don't 
want the same headaches.  Just so you know everything turned out ok on the 
batch, no vegetal flavors or strange aromas, I just don't enjoy having to 
wonder if I've ruined 10 gallons of beer :)

THX, Cory


- -- 

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Cory D. Chadwell        FlightSafety International, SSD
Design Engineer         2700 N. Hemlock Circle                /|
Navigation / Visual     Broken Arrow, Oklahoma 74012         /c|   -
chadwell at ssd.fsi.com                                        /  |  /|
- ---------------------------------------------------------<-----s---
                                                       FSI  \  |  \|
                                                        SSD  \c|   -
                                                              \|




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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:20:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Thomas S Barnett <barnets at mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Gutmann Hefeweizen

Hello all,
	My friend brought his favorite wheat beer back from Germany.  It's
Gutmann Hefeweizen.  Has anyone cultured the yeast from this beer?  Is it
lager yeast or their fermentation yeast?  Thanks. Tom Barnett.



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:16:03 -0600 (CST)
From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com>
Subject: maple syrup/cara-pils/hydrogen beer/diacetyl in lagers

More ancient questions...

Pete writes:
>I am going to be brewing a maple amber in the coming weeks to appease my
>SO.  I checked the archives but opinions vary on when to add the syrup
>for maximum maple flavor and aroma.  I have about 1 to 2 qts to work
>with for a 3 to 5 gallon batch.  I'm not sure which size I'll be
>doing.....
> 
>When is it best to make additions of syrup to retain maple flavor and
>smell though bottling.  I have also seen that it takes longer to
>ferment.
 
CO2 evolution will partially scrub out many aromatics, therefore, the 
later in the process you add the maple syrup (or fruit, or dryhops, or
spices) the more you'll get in the finished beer.  As a reference point
I added 1 quart (roughly a liter) of grade B (the stronger-flavoured
grade) maple syrup to 4 gallons (roughly 16 liters) of cider and it
was barely perceptable.  Beer, being far more flavourful than cider
would need quite a bit more.  I would start with 2 quarts in 5 gallons
of mildly-flavoured beer and you could easily go with 3 or 4 quarts
in stronger-flavoured beers.

***
Charley writes:
>Now for the potentially stupid question. I have noticed a few recipes that
>call for mashing at high temps (158F-160F) that also include some cara-pils
>malt. Is this redundant? Are we wasting our malt budget on higher priced
>cara-pils and then turning around and making more dextrins using the high
>mash temps?
 
I believe that cara-pils adds some of it's own flavour... not just dextrins.

***
Steve writes:
>The hydrogen beer story is a brand-spanking-new urban legend that has
>traveled an amazing number of miles in the short time it's been
>circulating. One thing that people forget when reading this is that
>hydrogen is incredibly flammable (anyone remember the Hindenburg?)
>Also, the flame is invisible, defeating the whole purpose of lighting
>the hydrogen beer belch on fire for all to see and marvel at.
 
The story is also clearly a fraud because of the claim that drinking
this hydrogen beer will allow the consumer to sing in a high-pitched
voice.  Unless the person was able to belch-out songs, to sing in a
high-pitched voice one would have to fill one's lungs with the beer
rather than one's stomach.  At one AHA conference, I believe it was
Steve Casselman that brought in a helium beer.  We all tried it and
not even the belches were high-pitched!

***
Jeff writes (quoting John):
>>I recently tried using a diacetyl rest on my CAP. <snip>
>>Unfortunately for me, I definitely smelled diacetyl at bottling.
> 
>I hate diacetyl in lagers myself, so I sympathize.  You can take solace,
>perhaps, in the fact that many historic American lagers had the stuff,
>according to Fix.  Ugh.

Depends on the lager... recall that moderate diacetyl is acceptable in
Bohemian Pilsners.  Look for diacetyl in Pilsner Urquell... yes, it's
in there.
 
Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at brewinfo.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:56:45 +0500
From: "Curt Speaker" <SPEAKER at SAFETY-1.SAFETY.PSU.EDU>
Subject: re: no first place ribbon

I will second what John Varady said about "some" competitions not 
awarding first place ribbons if the best beer in a catagory does not 
reach a certain level of scoring.  I have also heard judges and even 
organizers state the morning of a competition that "if a beer doesn't 
score at least 30 points, then it shouldn't be given a first place 
ribbon" or something to that effect.  This is the old UNWRITTEN 
RULE.  If it is a rule that most people follow, then lets right it down 
and moreover, lets let folks who are entering competitions know 
this up front.  It's only happened to me once, but it is a bit 
annoying.  It's sort of like saying "Your beer was the best in the 
catagory, but it still sucked".  I realize that this is a gross 
simplification, but it is essentially true.  We had this same 
discussion at our club meeting on Sunday.  If something is the 
best the catagory has to offer, so be it.  It certainly will not advance 
in the BOS round, but it is really a backhanded slap in the face to 
the brewer when he/she finds out that their beer was the best in the 
catagory, but they only got a second-place ribbon to show for it. 
(This discussion would probably be better served on judge.net, but 
I'm posting it here because I think it is timely).

Just one judges opinion...

Curt

Curt Speaker                         
Biosafety Officer 
Penn State University                
Environmental Health and Safety    
speaker at ehs.psu.edu                   
http://www.ehs.psu.edu
^...^
(O_O)
=(Y)=
 """


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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:32:45 -0500
From: Matney Davidson <GSBS at bigfoot.com>
Subject: SEVEN GRAIN STOUT

Several recent posts have spoken of multiple grain stouts.  My family often
has for breakfast a cracked seven grain cereal which we sometimes aquire in
50# bags.  It also comes in a seven grain rolled version, but we prefer the
cracked grain.  This mixture contains, according to the label: *hard wheat,
soft wheat, oats, rye, tritical, barley and millet*.  I'm fond of commercial
oatmeal stout.  I've read here of beers made with wheat and rye, but never
brewed one myself.  I've heard of African beers made with millet. Tritical
is some sort of hybrid wheat I believe--maybe someone can give us the
correct identification of this grain.  Then, barley is barley.  So, I began
to wonder how this mixture work as part of the grain bill in a stout.  On
the 1st of March I made the following:

SEVEN GRAIN STOUT

3#      Cracked Seven Grain cereal (contents detailed above*)
1 1/2 # 6-row malt mashed with the 7-grain and then cooked

Then added to the cooled mixture:

3 1/2#  additional 6-row  (for a total of 5#)
2#      2-row
1#      carapils
1/2#    crystal (40L)
1/2#    roasted 2-row
1/4#    chocolate

mashed the above at 150 degrees F. for 90 min adding 1 t. gypsum to my water.

boiled 90 min with:

1 oz.   Kent Goldings whole leafe hops (4.5%),  90 min.
1/2 oz. KG  (4.5%)                              30 min.
1/2 oz. KG  (4.5%)                               5 min.
1/2 t.  Irish Moss                              30 min.

Fermented almost 6 gal. in carboy with Danstar Nottingham dried yeast.

OG=1.055                FG=1.010

Kegged on 16 March and carbonated overnight to drink on St. Pactrick's Day.
I'm very pleased with the result and will definitely make this one again.
Maybe the best dark ale I've made in three years of brewing.  

Mat



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:32:15 -0600
From: Linus and Lila Hall <lnlhall at bellsouth.net>
Subject: homebrew shops

For the love of God and all that is holy,

Stop with the Homebrew Shop Thread(tm)!



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:36:41 -0600
From: "Stephen Rockey" <srockey at egyptian.net>
Subject: Hop plants available


Hello,
I live in Southern Illinois and have been growing hops for three years.  We
are moving to Florida and can't take the hops with us.  I have 2 Fuggles, 2
Northern Brewer, and 1 Cascade that I will give to anyone who would like to
try growing hops.  The Cascade and the Northern Brewer produce prolifically,
and the Fuggles are healthy plants, but does not get enough sun.  If you
live anywhere in the area of southern Illinois, (Carbondale area), and would
like some hop plants, they are your for the digging.  Please, they're too
young to die!
Thanks,
Steve




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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:55:29 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Poor Extraction Cause

Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
 
"I trust that Jack means that the moisture can increase vary 20% from 
what is is supposed to be such as 5% to 6% instead of adding 20 
percentage points to the content such as going from 5% to 25%??

Sorry but I DID mean it as a variation in absolute moisture content.
Shocking, isn't it?  Malt is extrememly hygroscopic and will absorb
vast amounts of water if given a chance.

"If the moisture content did vary, I doubt that that the extraction rate
could be measured on a practical level....

Precisely my point and precisely why worrying about it and debating
it is such a waste of energy unless you include all the variables
starting with hydrometer accuracy.  The crush quality is only one
of the many variables but it's effect is much farther into the noise
than moisture content. 


JS:<For some anecdoatl experience, I was never able to achieve 
extraction above the mid 20's no matter what I did until I change 
to DC Belgin malt. It immediately went to the low 30's and has never 
changed in 5 years.

"What does this say? It's in the malt folks.>

"That is a huge change to blame on moisture....

I said "it's the malt" not the moisture.  DC malt is packaged and 
shipped in plastic lined bags and I store it a humidity controlled
room so the moisture content is very low.  My judgement was that
the DC malt is a very high quality malt that produces a very high
yield relative to what I was using before.

Malt can't get much dryer than when it leaves the kiln.  All it can
do is add moisture and this increases the weight so one thinks he
is using more malt and his "yield" is less.

My first few batches of malt were purchased from a dealer in Chicago
who had malt in open burlap bags sitting on the floor of a shop
whose door was open most of the time.  It is quite probable that his
malt had a moisture content over 20% in summer.  It also smelled like
cigarette smoke but that is another story.

"More likely the DC malt crushed better at the gap his mill
was set at and the other malts needed a tighter gapped mill.

You just won't give it up, will you?

I have run many if not all of my tests using the same DC
pils malt and as long as all the grains are crushed, it matters
not a twit what the mill is set at or for that matter, whose mill
I used.  There is no way a grain of any malt I know of can pass
through a .045" space without getting crushed, ergo, fixed mill
produces same yeild as tweeked mill.

js


- -- 

Visit our WEB pages:     http://user.mc.net/arf

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:17:21 -0500
From: Ken Pendergrass <kenp794 at earthlink.net>
Subject: open fermentor well sort of

Mr. Tom Murry wrote not to many homebrewers have the right requirments
for open fermentors...this requires positive air pressure, HEPA
filters....

I don't know Tom.  Good beer is just not that hard to make. Think of all
that beer made over the centuries beside campfires or in brewries which
consisted of nothing more than an old wet barn, long before anyone know
what yeast or sanitation was.  I think that if beer was that hard to
make it would be a modern invention not an ancient one.
I have done open fermentations in both my kitchen and my 50 year old and
mildewy basement and smugly enjoyed the beer of my labors.  I do take
the precaution however of pitching a lot of yeast.  To me the idea is to
create the ideal media for growing beer yeast. Which is of course wort
and give the yeast a head start so that it can fight off any interloping
organisms.  A lot of us myself included get a great deal of enjoyment
from taking brewing to the Nth degree.  But you don't have to.

Best regards to all,
Ken Pendergrass
Ypsilanti, MI



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:24:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Anderson <timator at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Open fermenters. Well, sort of...

Thomas Murray writ:
>>>
George De Piro wrote:

        "Over the past couple of weeks some people have talked about
the 
     joys of using open fermenters, describing them as a plastic 
     bucket covered with plastic wrap which is secured to the bucket 
     with rubber bands.
[snip]   

I agree. A bucket with plastic wrap is not really an "open" fermenter
in the
literal sense. Not too many home brewers have the right requirements
for a
truly open fermenter. This would most likely require a special area with
filtered air creating positive pressure.
[snippety snip snip SNIP!]
<<<

Strange how some of the world's greatest beers (IMHO) come from places
like Cantillon in Brussels, where open means open.  No plastic wrap,
no filters, no positive pressure, nothing to keep out the fruit flies.
 That is, open in the literal sense.  Perhaps the right requirements
for open fermentation would include locating your fermenter in
Belgium, in a building that has been used for fermenting wort for a
few hundred years.

I'm tempted to try it in my fifty year old basement, that has been
used for fermenting wort for five.  But then I'm currently under the
influence of a couple too many Belgian beers.  Tomorrow, good sense
will get the better of me, I'll resume worrying about various wild
nasties and continue buying ultra-pure stuff from Wyeast.  Sigh.

tim



 
==
Please ignore the advertisement below.  Thank you.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:45:52 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: more Steam RIMS

Joy had some questions regarding my steam RIMS:
 
>Application might be a reasonable alternative to electric
>heating elements which has inherent problems.

I am not going to scrap the electric heating element but use it also.
The electric element is great for temperature maintenance during a temp
rest, but is not so great for temperature boosts.  The steam injection
delivers much more heat in a shorter amount of time for boosting the
mash temp.

>How do you control the temperature of the mash in the immediate area
>of the steam inlet.
 
You don't.
 
>Temperatures possibly high enough to destroy the enzymes within
>seconds?

Yes, enzymes are probably destroyed in high numbers.

>What are your measured the temperatures in the mash at
>different distances from the steam inlet?

I don't know.

>Do you use rapid speed motorized mixing; or, is the nozzle
>moved rapidly through the mash?

The steam tube was just stuck in the mash bed and was not moved.  Temp
distribution was achieved by circulating the wort with a pump.

I used to worry about killing enzymes with heat but I don't anymore.
Conversion has never been a problem when using electric elements or now
with steam.  I am going to inject the steam into the heating element
chamber as Bill Macher did, so that mixing and "hot spots" in the mash
bed are no longer a problem (don't think they were much of a problem
before, but injecting into the chamber is easier for me).

If you do decide to construct a steam RIMS, buy a new pressure cooker.
You only need a 4qt or 6qt pcooker, which may cost $20 to $40.  Buying
new will ensure that the rupture disk and seals are in good condition.

Kyle
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:15:07 GMT
From: marnold at ez-net.com (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Titletown Open V

Entry forms for Titletown Open V, the official homebrew competition of the
Green Bay Rackers, are now online! They are in Adobe Acrobat format and are
available at http://www.rackers.org/open.shtml Judging will take place on
Saturday, May 15, at Titletown Brewing in Green Bay. The Best of Show winner
will have his or her recipe scaled up, brewed at Egan's Brewery in DePere (by
Richard "gak" "Beer is my Life" Stueven), and served on tap at Egan's and
Titletown with proper accolades to the brewer.

Sign up soon!
  Matt "I don't have a clever nickname" Arnold
- -----
Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club
http://www.rackers.org        info at rackers.org


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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:03:08 -0500
From: "S. Wesley" <WESLEY at MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Save the Volatiles!

Save the Volatiles!
From: Simon A. Wesley.			2/22/99

In an earlier post I mentioned that the process of removing alcohol
from beer by vacuum evaporation seems to completely remove hop aroma
compounds and partially remove malt aroma compounds from the beer.  I
ordered some hop oils and late hop essences from Hop Tech (Standard
Disclaimer) and I plan to experiment with using them to try to repair
the damage.  According to Garetz these are produced by means of a
process which uses Liquid CO2 to remove the oils from the hops and
vacuum distillation to separate the appropriate fractions.  The
results are then diluted with water in an emulsion.  It would be nice
if it were possible to save some of the original volatiles from the
beer rather than replace them with a rather limited selection of oils
and essences.  

>From what I have been able to determine most of these compounds
are driven out of the beer during warm up and degassing which
takes up the first two hours of the14 hour long process of removing
alcohol from a two gallon sample.  It seems that a condenser installed
in the vacuum line should be able to collect these volatiles so that
they could be returned to the beer at the end of the process.  The
condenser could be shut down and the collecting flask isolated once
boiling commences to prevent capturing a substantial amount of
alcohol.  Does anyone have any specific knowledge about whether or not
this would work?  Under normal circumstances I would just go ahead and
try it, but since it is probably, technically illegal to do this
without an appropriate permit, I plan on sticking to the using the
commercial oils for now. I am looking into whether or not I can
legally get away with testing this out in my classroom or lab under
the guise of educational or research work without having to get a
permit.  My statement that this is probably illegal without a permit
is based on my reading of Section 5179(a), Subchapter B, Chapter 51 of
Title 26.  I rather suspect that I might not be able to get a permit
for using this setup since it could very easily be used to distill
ethanol.

Another idea in a similar vein would be to try to vacuum distill
some of the volatiles from an infusion of hops in water so that they
could be added to the beer immediately afterwards.  It might even be
possible to use the beer container as the receiving vessel at the end
of the vacuum evaporation process and thereby deliver the condensate
directly into the beer.  It appears that some changes occur in the
oils when late hop additions are boiled in beer so it would probably
be necessary to do the infusion with boiling water in a sealed
container which could later serve as the distilling flask. Sanitation
would be another issue in this process.  Legal issues aside, does any
one have any definite knowledge about whether or not this process
would work?



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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:25:26 -0500
From: "S. Wesley" <WESLEY at MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Cavitation in Pumps

Cavitation in Pumps
From: Simon A. Wesley			3/22/99

In HBD #2983-21 George De Piro discusses the dangers of cavitation in
the March 809 HS (Moving Brews # 6144 MM) magnetic drive pumps in
response to Alan MacKay's question regarding using 3/8" tubing on the
pump inlet.  He makes the reasonable assertion that cavitation can
happen if the pressure drops enough to cause the fluid in the pump to
boil, and that this can in turn be caused by restricting the inlet. 
This certainly could happen, but it is not entirely clear that it is
likely to happen under the conditions in which the pump is likely to
be used. Limits on coolant flow rate and chiller length will often
make it necessary to reduce the pump output to a fraction of its
maximum value, thereby reducing the impact of a restricted inlet. 
This not withstanding, it certainly would be a good idea to use larger
tubing if it is possible to do so, insure a reasonable head of
pressure from the kettle to the pump and to keep the distance between
the pump and kettle drain as short as reasonably possible.  Narrow
bore valves should likewise be avoided.

The rate at which the inlet tubing can deliver liquid to the pump
depends to a large extent (but not exclusively) on the diameter of the
tubing, the length of the tubing and the pressure difference between
the ends.  If the tubing is too narrow flow is restricted and the
inlet pressure of the pump must drop in order to supply fluid faster. 
This could result in the cavitation George describes, especially since
the liquid is close to boiling to start with.

The pump that Alan asked about is rated at 5.3 GPM for open discharge.
 I use the same pump on a 50 foot long chiller made of 1/2" tubing. 
When the pump is running flat out with the outlet valve open it
delivers roughly 2 GPM.  I determined through a series of tests that
this reduction in flow is largely caused by the long open discharge
load of the chiller, and is not primarily caused by constriction of the inlet by
using a manifold and 1/2"  OD tubing.  Among other things, I did a
short test of the flow rate with the chiller removed and the outlet
ball valve open. I found that the flow rate was about 3.5 GPM which is
quite a bit higher than I expected to run the pump, so I decided to go
forward. A flow rate of 2 GPM is just fine since I can only deliver
about 5 GPM of cooling water to the chiller and it requires a coolant
to wort ratio of about 2.5 to 1 when operating under these conditions.
 I don't know the geometry of Alan's chiller, but I'd guess that it is
unlikely that he is going to run his pump at 5.3 GPM.  Even if his
chiller is 50 ft long and his coolant is as cold as the ground water
here in Maine, he would need to run the coolant at an absurd rate
(Substantially more than 15 GPM) in order to do this.  In reality Alan
will probably need to throttle the output of his pump significantly in
order to operate with a chiller of reasonable length with a reasonable
coolant flow rate.  The exact amount will depend on the details of his
chiller design and coolant temperature.  The flow rate should be
controlled with a valve on the pump outlet, not on the inlet.

The net result is that the chance that the pump will be starved and
cavitate is reduced since the inlet tubing does not have to deliver
fluid as fast and consequently the inlet pressure does not have to be
as low.  If Alan is concerned about damage to the impeller it is a
relatively simple matter to inspect it periodically (remove eight
screws) and determine if damage is occurring.  If damage does occur
replacement impellers are available from the manufacturer. By the way
the manufacturer recommends replacing the o-ring whenever you
disassemble the pump although I have not found it necessary to do so. 
The first thing I did when my pump arrived was to take the head apart
to see how it worked. It is interesting to see (in a geeky kind of
way) and very easy to do.  I just opened up my pump head again and my
impeller and bearing are in immaculate condition despite many hours of
service pulling wort through several inches of hops and trub, a
slotted manifold, a ball valve, and several feet of 1/2" OD tubing.


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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:25:24 -0500
From: "Billmeier" <nbillme1 at maine.rr.com>
Subject: how to insulate mash tun

Anyone have good advice on how to insulate a converted keg mash tun?  It
needs to be able to accept heat yet keep the mash at a steady temperature. 
Am thinking of some sort of aluminum flashing held at the bottom with
muffler tape. What would the actual insulation be, as it needs to be
waterproof?  What about some sort of wood covering over the insulating
material?

Thanks,

Randy Billmeier
Yarmouth, ME



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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:57:44 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: RE: Half Arsed Brew Shops

A bit of steam rising on this one.

As one who has travelled fairly extensively in both Australia and the
US, slurping my way greedily through every beer type in my path (but
resides in neither) I might put a "neutral" comment in here.

I have found the people I've met in Australia in both the homebrew
supplying area, and microbrewing field to be incredibly gracious,
knowledgable, and down to earth.

I have gathered that there is a MUCH larger proportion of people who
brew beer in Australia for purely economical reasons. (The price quoted
for a case of American micro beer, is about what you pay in Oz for the
domestic mega brewery stuff... typically about 25 dollars a case.... all
imported or micro brewed stuff you can count on TWICE that price).

The common scenario of the guy who buys a kit at "Safeway", because it's
a dollar cheaper there, then gets home and gets right on the phone to a
homebrew supplier and asks "Say, how long am I supposed to boil this
yeast, mate?" would tire me to no end.... but they put up with it....
and my impression was that they put up with it less for economic
reasons, but just hoping to capture that one out of 50 callers who might
really get interested in the hobby.

It is satisfying to spread your passion.

If I was going to make a generalisation (and why not... they're fun!) I
would say that part of the Australian national character is to "not take
yourself too seriously" ("tall poppy" syndrome and all), and that hazing
each other is a bit of a national sport, and one is sort of expected to
take it and dish it out in return.

In this sense it is probably not terribly HBD compatable - where I find
opinions fairly homogenous, commonly unsupported by anything except
theoretical inference, and response to variance from them, as though
someone had crapped on the altar in the middle of the sermon.

(*) 

(Did I create a "moon" ASCII? Oh well, at least it's Whole Arsed.)

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:11:16 -0500
From: Bob.Sutton at fluordaniel.com
Subject: HBD's Demise

Errrrr... Pat... with all this hacking about... are we prepared for HBD3K... 
only two weeks to go... might be wise to skip HBD3000 and jump to 3001... should
we all unsubscribe until the fateful issue passes... of course if we did there
wouldn't be one, would there... Hmmm... perhaps it's just another brick in the
wall of homebrewing's demise...

 ...from a well-stocked shelter in Sawth Caroliner

Bob 
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today
- ----
Words from our janitor to the effect of...

>>>>Subject: A hack enhancing...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Back in December, I made some notes on plans to further automate the
Automagical Responder. The Eagle has landed (or a Unix-hack version of it
anyway...).

[snip]

Finally, since I am but a mere shadow compared to the powers brandished by
REAL Unix hacks, keep an eye out for weirdnesses in your address.
Like, say, you suddenly stop getting the Digest, or, um, something...<<<<


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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:50:10 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: easy open fermenter

Two raves in the same edition, wow.

Thomas Murray wrote:

> . Not too many home brewers have the right requirements for a
> truly open fermenter. This would most likely require a special area with
> filtered air creating positive pressure. It could be done, though. I've seen
> inexpensive HEPA type filter cartridges for sale in a surplus catalog, and a
> blower to run a filter system would be relatively cheap. One problem with this
> idea is the relatively high expense of the electricity to run such a set up if
> you brew in small batches. Intriguing, though

I've got an even more technically advanced solution to this problem.

I've got a hole in my lid.  Once the cooled wort and yeast go in, I put
the lid on and stuff toilet paper in it (I used to keep a bag of sterile
cotton wool just for this purpose...amazing what one can believe).

Now for the theoretical hooplah:

People describe the "blanket of CO2 theory" in how open fermenters
work.  I think gasses are a bit more Brownian than that.

What I think is going on, is that the yeast are getting access to
miniscule ammounts of O2 AFTER they have already produced a myriad of
metabolites, allowing certain of them to get oxidized and changing the
taste profile.

What I can say practically, is that I tried "closed fermentation with
blow off tube" at some point in the 80's (I called it the "Papazian
method" because I read it there first).  I found I wasn't getting the
same beers, and never felt quite comfortable with it, and went back to
my open ferments.

Since my brewing has been mostly influenced by watching "Classic
methods", where open tialed fermenters are the norm, I figured the
"dinky bits of O2" theory may be influential.  Particularly when I watch
the old gaffers manually skimming the "brown krauzen", I've thought:
"Hmmm, that hardly looks like anaerobic technique to me."

Since I haven't got someone employed to scrub the walls of my cellars
daily, or installed UV lights at the entrance, I sort of figure the
(previously unused) "toilet paper" filter to be a good hygienic option. 
As the fermentation slows, I can guarantee there will be some gas flow
across it in both directions.

I've even played with extending the primary time to see when you are
crossing the line between a "desiable ammount of oxidative changes" and
"premature staling".  I've begun to more and more convince myself that
racking before the krauzen is down, probably originally had more to do
with "getting the beer away from contaminated skum", and avoiding
potential infections, than it really has to do with oxidation (as we are
taught to believe), or getting it off the trub early (which I don't
believe at all).

I'd encourage other folks to play with this parameter as well (get more
than one primary fermenter, and do a little of each side by side).

Not all the rules about how to make good beer, are as hard and fast as
we are lead to believe.

> Maybe it's time to come up with an acronym for the "bucket with plastic wrap"
> system. BWPWF? UAF(User Accessible Fermenter)? EFFRS(Emergency Fruit Fly
> Removal System)?

Not bad. How 'bout  CAL(Cheap Air Lock), since that is what all my
secondaries look like
now...http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/columns/jirvine/watertrap.html

BTW, I've already got an acronym for fruitflies (AK).  I was in a
brewery in Bohemia where the brewmaster and I had over the years
developed some common language mixing Czech, English, German, and Latin
(if you can imagine such a cacophony). We were in the brewing house,
when I saw an errant fruit fly floating through the air.  I snatched it,
squished it in my palm, made a grimace and said: "Acetobacter
Kalashnikov."

He quite liked that one, and it has gone into the "Hodge-Podge
Dictionary of International Brewing Terms" (only two submitters, and two
readers thus far)

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:34:48 -0500
From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net (Kenneth B Johnsen <NADB>)
Subject: NY City Spring Regional Competition Results

Results of the 8th. NYC spring Regional can be found at the HOSI web site
http://pbsbeer.com/hosi/hosimain.html

BOS winners were:

1. PHIL BERNIE, PRE-PRO PILS
2. TED McIRVINE, FLANDERS RED ALE
3. TOM CAHALANE, BARLEYWINE 

CIDER & MEAD AWARD TED McIRVINE 

Ken
Homebrewers of Staten Island URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/


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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:14:02 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Scotch Brites

Noope!  Didn't know that.  You are speaking of the ones without the
abrasives, right.  Maybe I should get the softer ones then.  Never noticed
anything but I may be putting microscratches in the glass because of the
very low pressure.

>cloth needs to be removed for cleaning of the brush.
>it works great and you don't take the chance of
>scratching the inside of the bottle.

While I like the idea that Rod presents, while I can't speak for generic
green
scrubbies, the green scrubbies by Scotch Brite WILL scratch glass, so be
careful choosing your tools.

Owen King, Everett, Washington






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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:29:45 -0600
From: Rick Lassabe <bayrat at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: L.M.E. and Cornie Kegs

Has anyone tried storing L.M.E. in a five gallon keg? I was thinking
this would be the perfect place to store the liquid; you know purge all
the O2 out and then use CO2 to dispense what you needed. By doing this
I can't see why it would be necessary to refrigerate, and I don't think
there would be a problem with molding. If anyone has tried this;
approximately how long does it take to dispense six or seven pounds?
Rick Lassabe
Bayrat's "Bayou Degradable Brewery"




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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:25:57 -0800
From: Tyce Heldenbrand <tyce at photon.com>
Subject: Culturing yeast

I am in the process of re-culturing some yeast.  Almost 2 years ago, a
friend of mine and myself cultured some yeast from a bottle La Trappe or La
Chouffe, at any rate, I can't remember which Belgian beer it was.  I used
that culture to ferment a Belgian Tripel.  The beer was phenomenol after a
year and half.  It had this really interesting lemony/citrus/Brettonomyces
character.  I will admit that the beer was not a replica of a commercial
example of a Tripel, but the belgian character was definetely there.  A
master judge (David Houseman) judged it at the America's Finest City and
his comments were, this is a great Lambic-Tripel (due to the
horsey/Brett/Lactic character). I saved some yeast from the last two
bottles of this Belgian Tripel, and I want to re-culture it.  I have so far
feed it some corn sugar, and it started fermenting it, but I feel it is
ready for anther sugar dose.  The question is, shoud I contiune feeding it
corn sugar or should I feed it some dry malt extreact?  Or what other sugar
sources would be good to help this yeast.

Tyce Heldenbrand
"Beer comment traditionally goes here"
tyce at photon.com





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