HOMEBREW Digest #2994 Fri 02 April 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  "proofing yeasts" (Clark)
  Diacetyl, can I get it out of kegged beer? (Dave Humes)
  taste references (Laurel Maney)
  Re: MI Brewpubs (Spencer W Thomas)
  Beer Freshness ("David M. Campbell")
  Filtering your beer (Nathan Kanous)
  Re-using yeast (Nathan Kanous)
  Milk Stout (John Varady)
  New TI Chip (Louis Bonham)
  Keg Mash Tun Insulation (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  Beer joke  - humor (Ian Smith)
  Ayinger yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Re: taste training kits (Steven Ensley)
  Chooks and Emus / Judging ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  Nottingham lag time (PAUL W HAAF JR)
  Braggot/Bracket (beanish)
  Re: taste training kits (John Landreman)
  Arizona BP's ("John Lifer, jr")
  Organoleptic confusion, HBlimits,refraction/alcohol (Dave Burley)
  Diacetyl, Judging (RCAYOT)
  Re: Sugar Substitute (Eric Dreher)
  open fermenter? (Lou.Heavner)
  Aluminum & pH & temperature (Dan Cole)
  Oxidation of a-acetolactate ("David C. Harris")
  Alcohol Testing (William Frazier)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:56:34 -0500 From: Clark <clark at capital.net> Subject: "proofing yeasts" Brew Crew, First, Sunday evening I brewed a Dunkel From a recipe in Papazians' book "The Home Brewers Companion". I went with a dry lager yeast instead of the liquid packet I had in the fridge. This was a last minute session and I did not have enough time to activate the liquid properly. I rehydrated the yeast packet and then proofed it with a little sugar. I saw very little, if any activity. This was not good , but I pitched anyway as most of us probably would have under the circumstances. 24 hours later there was limited activity, very slow. 2 days later things were a little more active , but not what I had hoped to see. Today (72 hours later) there is very active fermentation with a lot of activity in the carboy. Whew! Questions. Should lager yeasts be reactivated in cool water as opposed to ale yeasts which are rehydrated in warm water? Everything I have read about rehydrating yeast involves warm water and putting the yeast in a warm place to grow. Does this apply to both ale and lager yeast? Do lager yeasts take longer to "take off" when pitched than ale yeasts? I had a Murphys Irish Stout a couple weeks ago. Now in my book, hot dogs, beans and Genny Creams cover the ten basic food groups so this stout was a real mouthful. I thought that it was excellent. What type of stout is this considered to be? This is the kind of beer I want to make. Thanks for the help gang. I'll be looking forward to your replys. Dave Clark Eagle Bridge, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 99 23:40:10 -0500 From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net> Subject: Diacetyl, can I get it out of kegged beer? Greetings, Well, for the first time I managed to create a beer that's loaded with diacetyl. The beer's a classic English pale ale that is otherwise fairly nice and I hate to waste it. Since it's in keggs, is there any chance I could reduce the diacetyl to acceptable levels by either CO2 scrubbing or just periodic venting? Has anyone been successful at this? What was your procedure? Thanks in advance. - --Dave - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net> Dave Humes - ----------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:01:24 -0800 From: Laurel Maney <maney at execpc.com> Subject: taste references Hi to all - Spiking samples of beer with flavor references is a good idea, but don't use Rolling Rock, because that's the best example of DMS (upwards of 300 ppb, I'm thinking) made the natural way that you'll ever find. In fact, the best trainer for DMS is to open a can of creamed corn and do sniff comparisons of that with Rolling Rock. Here are some other good sniff comparisons to use for training. In my experience, it's good to sample the reference, then a beer containing a relatively high level of that flavor for initial identification. If you spike, I'd suggest using a beer like High Life or Bud. fruity/banana -isoamyl acetate - 'Circus Peanuts' candy or imitation banana extract nutty - benzaldehyde - almond extract VDK - diacetyl, 2.3-pentanedione - microwave popcorn (before popping - just break the seal) skunky - 3-methyl2-butene-1-thiol - Corona exposed to strong sunlight for ~10 minutes phenolic - eugenol, 4-vinylguiacol - whole cloves, if possible from bulk (as opposed to bottled) oxidized - pieces of cardboard miostened with water, in a ziplock bag overnight OR go way to the back of the library stacks and just take in the aroma of old paper (well, okay, this is hard to bottle.....but it's trans-2-nonenal at its best) Once you have a good identification of the flavor, you can go to lower levels in the beer and do them without references. Mouthfeel references are perhaps better to do in water first, since you can't smell them. metallic - iron - nutritional iron supplement tablet (rinse off red coating, dilute to ~3 ppm) alcoholic warming - ethanol - grain alcohol or vodka sour - citric or lactic acid - citric or lactic acid astringent - sulfates - calcium sulfate bitter - isoalpha acids - boil a few hop pellets or flowers in water These are all ones that I have done with some success. There are a lot more listed in the book Evaluating Beer from Brewers Publications, ISBN 0-937381-37-3, that you might want to try. Laurel Maney Brewing Program Milwaukee Area Technical College Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 02:32:29 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: MI Brewpubs >>>>> "Nathan" == Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> writes: Nathan> Isn't this the Big Buck Brewery? Kind of like the Nathan> McDonald's or Budweiser of brewpubs in my opinion. Out of 10 beers on tap last time I was there, there was one with real flavor -- the ESB. The stout was not bad, either. Just a reminder, folks, you can find a list of ALL the Michigan breweries at http://www.michiganbeerguide.com, with a map. =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:23:32 -0500 From: "David M. Campbell" <David.Campbell at po-box.esu.edu> Subject: Beer Freshness How long will a beer stay "fresh" in the refrigerator? I make mostly extract ales, and I was thinking about saving a bottle or two from each recipe that I make for a year or two...can I do that? Or, will it go "bad" after a certain amount of time? Thanks, Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:47:07 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Filtering your beer Better box up that Helles and send it to Wisconsin. We can "physilogically" filter it for you and return the residuals...if you wish. ;^) nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:49:24 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Re-using yeast Ron labors ;^) over how to separate the yeast when "washing" yeast at home and says his pouring and turkey baster don't work. How about one of those fancy measuring cups that draws from the bottom? You could pour out the trub and gunk first (throw it away) capture the middle stuff and throw away the stuff on top. nathan in madison, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:50:09 -0500 (EST) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Milk Stout Brain Rezac writes: >Matt makes some excellent points. He is correct. Flaked barley and >oats do need to be mashed with equal or greater quantities of >enzymatic malt. I also agree with his comparison of DWC vs. Briess >carapils. When Paul and I worked on stepping down the original 11 Bbl >recipe, these issues were raised. <snip> >So, knowing that homebrewers have been using these ingredients this >way for years, we opted for simplicity over efficiency to encourage >participation of homebrewers at all levels. At the time, folks were >chompin' at the bit to get the recipe, so we made a quick decision. Perhaps that quick decision should have been to pick a different style?? The fact that home brewers have been doing something wrong for years, doesn't make it ok. It certainly shouldn't be propagated in such a high profile fashion with AHA approval. I'm curious how the decision to brew milk stout came about. The addition of lactose alone will preclude many brewers. But, I'll be there. It should be *fun* which is what it really is all about. I think I'll brew a GDP Weizen (if I can get a sample of his yeast...perhaps at the AHA Regionals in April in Philly?). Later, John - -- John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Glenside, PA rust1d at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:50:57 -0600 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at hypercon.com> Subject: New TI Chip Hi folks: Regarding whether the new TI "Spreeta" sensor could be useful to brewers, from my reading on the stuff on the website the answer is ABSOLUTELY. Indeed, the TI application notes specifically mention monitoring SG levels during both mashing and fermentation. Indeed, the resolution of this chip (RI 0.000001) is better than all but the very best bench refractometers on the market. Before we all get too excited, however, several caveats are in order: (1) Cost. I have not seen any pricing on this chip. TI does offer a prototyping kit with one chip / sensor assembly, a flow cell with a thermistor for ATC, a PC interface card and Windows software for the low, low price of $2,999. I have a sneaking suspicion that TI will price these things dearly, at least at first. [Remember that there are ISFET chips out there that allow for the construction of virtually indestructable pH sensors that don't go bad, can take high temps, etc. These things have been out for years, yet solid state pH sensors are still 3-4X the price of conventional ones.] (2) "Extras." This chip will have to have a fairly involved interface card, either to a standalone computer or to a small dedicated processor, because there's a fairly involved set of functions that must be run to interpret the data stream from the chip. One of my clients designs and prototypes such things for scientific equipment, and from my conversations with him this would probably not be a project that very many of us could handle, unless of course you're a EE with experience in this area. (OTOH, once somebody actually designs one, it might be "clonable" without too much trouble.) (3) Uses. OK, let's assume that somebody comes up with a integrated sensor / display unit for a reasonable sum, and thus what you've got is a small, highly accurate, temperature compensated electronic refractometer. You could mount this in your mash tun or your RIMS plumbing to monitor gravity constantly during the mash. Given that the maximum rated working temp of the chip is 70C, I doubt that you could do the same in the kettle, but then again you probably wouldn't need to. Mounting it in a fermenter would, of course, allow you to measure gravity before fermentation starts, but as with any refractometer you don't get an accurate SG measurement from the raw refractometer data once there's ethanol in the mix. HOWEVER, there are tables available that allow one to extrapolate "true" SG (and EtOH content) from the "apparent" gravity shown by a refractometer IF you also have an accurate OG measurement. I could thus envision a sensor package that records the OG and calculates / displays the SG of fermenting beer. Very interesting stuff. LKB Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:02:45 -0500 From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com Subject: Keg Mash Tun Insulation Randy Billmaier asks: > Anyone have good advice on how to insulate a converted keg > mash tun? It needs to be able to accept heat yet keep the > mash at a steady temperature. Am thinking of some sort > of aluminum flashing held at the bottom with muffler tape. > What would the actual insulation be, as it needs to be > waterproof? What about some sort of wood covering over > the insulating material? While cruising the aisles of Menard's last night (amazing how many single women are doing home improvement projects these days!) I saw what might be the long-sought solution to this problem. In the gas grill department, they had a product from Char-Broil called the "Smoker Jacket". Through the plastic packaging, it appeared to be bubble-wrap made from very heavy aluminum foil (without the usual mylar laminate), with snaps for attachment. Designed to insulate a charcoal-fired meat smoker (like the Brinkmann, Char-Broil and others), it looks to be about the right size for the ubiquitous Sankey. As an added bonus, it was only $5.99. Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:06:44 -0700 From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com> Subject: Beer joke - humor Subject: Beer Troubleshooting SYMPTOM: Feet cold and wet. FAULT: Glass being held at incorrect angle. ACTION: Rotate glass so that open end points toward ceiling. SYMPTOM: Feet warm and wet. FAULT: Improper bladder control. ACTION: Stand next to nearest dog, complain about house training. SYMPTOM: Beer unusually pale and tasteless. FAULT: Glass empty. ACTION: Get someone to buy you another beer. SYMPTOM: Opposite wall covered with fluorescent lights. FAULT: You have fallen over backward. ACTION: Have yourself leashed to bar. SYMPTOM: Mouth contains cigarette butts. FAULT: You have fallen forward. ACTION: See above. SYMPTOM: Beer tasteless, front of your shirt is wet. FAULT: Mouth not open, or glass applied to wrong part of face. ACTION: Retire to rest room, practice in mirror. SYMPTOM: Floor blurred. FAULT: You are looking through bottom of empty glass. ACTION: Get someone to buy you another beer. SYMPTOM: Floor moving. FAULT: You are being carried out. ACTION: Find out if you are being taken to another bar. SYMPTOM: Room seems unusually dark. FAULT: Bar has closed. ACTION: Confirm home address with bartender. SYMPTOM: Taxi suddenly takes on colorful aspect and textures. FAULT: Beer consumption has exceeded personal limitations. ACTION: Cover mouth. SYMPTOM: Everyone looks up to you and smiles. FAULT: You are dancing on the table. ACTION: Fall on somebody cushy-looking. SYMPTOM: Beer is crystal-clear. FAULT: It's water. Somebody is trying to sober you up. ACTION: Punch him. SYMPTOM: Hands hurts, nose hurts, mind unusually clear. FAULT: You have been in a fight. ACTION: Apologize to everyone you see, just in case it was them. SYMPTOM: Don't recognize anyone, don't recognize the room you're in. FAULT: You've wandered into the wrong party. ACTION: See if they have free beer. SYMPTOM: Your singing sounds distorted. FAULT: The beer is too weak. ACTION: Have more beer until your voice improves. SYMPTOM: Don't remember the words to the song. FAULT: Beer is just right. ACTION: Play air guitar. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:31:27 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Ayinger yeast "Philip J Wilcox" <<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> wrote: >I now have a stubborn Helles which refused to fall bright after using what >is rumored to be Ayinger Lager yeast? Anybody know if this is a known >Non-flocker? Beer was brewed in December with Tom Plunkard we split the >batch, he used his yeast, and I stopped at the local Micro to get mine. This has become my regular lager yeast. It is terrific. I've brewed all malt pale and dark lagers and CAP with it, and it dropped out just fine. I got mine directly from Dan McConnell YCKC without an intervening micro. I participated with Dan and a local brewpub brewing staff and owners in a tasting last summer of six one-gallon brews from the same pilsner wort, all fermented with different yeasts. The Ayinger was a clear favorite with everyone, and was head and shoulders above the others in my opinion. I just tapped a Dortmunder Export (I missed the mark for a Helles) that is incredibly German, IMNSHO. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:51:29 -0600 (CST) From: Steven Ensley <steve at globaldialog.com> Subject: Re: taste training kits >I would be more interested in the "beer doping kit". I have read some >information on taste training from brewery.org, It detailed this taste >training by tainting a bland control beer with the flavor components >you're >trying to learn to detect. I think you can find what your after in the study guide for the BJCP tests. You can find it at http://www.bjcp.org . You will also find it very interesting reading if your trying to refine your beer evaluation skills as I am. The long form of the style guidelines also list comercial examples of the various styles. - -- Steve KB9RMM Vice President and all-round technology guy Al Gore on Y2K: "How could this be a problem in a country where we have Intel and Microsoft?" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:52:35 -0800 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Chooks and Emus / Judging Help us out Jethro: I know what an emu is, saw 'em in the zoo in Sydney many years ago (started with a T, most beautiful zoo I've ever seen, BTW --- worth the price of admission just for the birds). Chooks (chickens) I had to look up in the dictionary. My question is, what does it mean if your chook turns into an emu? Is that a bad thing? Some sort of curse? *************************************************************************** Silent Bob has an interesting idea about qualifying the level of judging ability through the BJCP database. Presumably this information would be used to screen the judge pool at some point in the future. My concern is that judging is a voluntary effort, and many times the organizers are thrilled to see judges show up, period. Next month (?) the first round of the AHA Nationals for the Left Coast will be held in the high desert of Southern California. That's a seven hour drive from here, 9+ from where it was held last year, and two hours from LA on a good day. I'd wager a beer that those guys will be looking for warm bodies that weekend. I'll further wager that there's a fair chance if you enter that you'll get scoresheets back from non-BJCP judges, people that just happened to be available and willing to help. And the organizers will have been happy to have had 'em there. Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:51:31 -0500 From: PAUL W HAAF JR <haafbrau1 at juno.com> Subject: Nottingham lag time I followed the recently posted procedure for rehydrating the yeast, and it was bubbling within 14 hours. I remember shorter lag times in the past, but for the past 6 months or so, this is about the best I've gotten with Nottingham. By the way, this yeast makes a nice, clean cider, and I'm planning on a low strength mead with this yeast real soon. Paul Haaf Y2K-Computer programmers way of saying, 'HAHA!' ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:12:11 -0800 (PST) From: beanish at blarg.net Subject: Braggot/Bracket Nathan asks for Braggot recipes. Here's one I've looked at but haven't tried: http://www.eklektix.com/gfc/mead/recipes/rwebb.rcp Also, in this page, http://hbd.org/brewery/library/MedievalFH.html Fred Hardy suggests using the first runnings of your mash for a "big" beer, and then adding honey to the remainder of the runnings to boost the gravity and make a braggot/bracket. One piece of advice I'd offer from mead-making is to add your honey after you've finished the boil of the malt wort. It's a matter of opinion, but I think boiling drives off most of the honey aroma. I seem to recall reading someplace that a braggot doesn't need to be as high OG as the honey bucket bracket recipe above, but I haven't seen any lower OG recipes on the web. I'm about to get started this month on an all-grain set-up, and after brewing an "easy" batch or two, I'm likely to make a big Scottish ale with the first runnings (with help from Noonan's Scottish Ale book from the AHA style series) and then use the second runnings to make a braggot instead of a small beer. I'll let you know how it goes. After a long period of inept mead-making, I heard about bracket/braggot and decided I wanted to make one. So first, I needed to learn how to brew beer :) That was a year ago, and I've brewed nothing but beer since (and vastly improved my technique, since there's so much more in the way of books and web resources to draw from as compared to mead). I'm looking forward to finally making that braggot! - -- Jeremy York beanish at blarg.net jeremy at cartia.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:00:29 -0700 From: jlandrem at atmel.com (John Landreman) Subject: Re: taste training kits In hbd #2992 Cory Chadwell said: "I would be more interested in the "beer doping kit". I have read some information on taste training from brewery.org, It detailed this taste training by tainting a bland control beer with the flavor components you're trying to learn to detect. The article didn't really go into detail regarding what you might use for those components. What I'd like to have is a fairly complete list of flavor profiles vs. the additions you would use to achieve them." Check out Jay "Dr. Beer" Hersh's web site at http://www.tiac.net/users/drbeer for doctoring guidelines that he and Steve Stroud have developed over a number of years. Cheers, John Landreman Colorado Springs, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:20:01 -0600 From: "John Lifer, jr" <jliferjr at misnet.com> Subject: Arizona BP's Hey yawl! I'll be in Phoenix area for a week in April and I have gotten a list of the BP's within a hundred miles or so. There are more than the 4-5 listed that I'll be able to get to. Does anyone have a recomendation (or an avoid) for any of these? Actually will be in Chandler and one day in Tucson. Thanks for the help. John - -- Cornelius Ball Lock Kegs for Sale See Web page for details. http://www2.misnet.com/~jliferjr Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:37:58 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Organoleptic confusion, HBlimits,refraction/alcohol Brewsters: Steven Klump's bid to end the organoleptic confusion ( was there any?) between diacetyl and DMS certainly left me confused as he mentioned them in the above order and then "explained" the difference in the reverse order leading to at least my momentary confusion. Diacetyl has a buttery/butterscotch aroma/taste and is found historically in Scottish and Northern England ales most often. They do not smell like greasy, steamy microwave popcorn! DMS is often encountered in Mid-western US beers/ales. like Rolling Rock, Jenny Cream ( corn) Ale. - ----------------------------------------- Those worrying about making too much homebrew and exceeding some arbitrary limit should be aware of a comment made to me some three decades or so ago when homebrewing was not legal in the US. I called the BATF ( or ABC as it was then) to inquire as to the penalty were I to make some homebrew. The BATFer said to me "Well, quite frankly, we have a lot bigger problems. Do you understand what I mean?" I did and began to make homebrew. Point is, this is a harmless ( and in my opinion has a lot of really socio-positive things) hobby as far as society is concerned. If you don't make a jackass of yourself in public, no one cares. Don't drive drunk or agree to supply the firemen's next wet down and you should be OK. - ------------------------------------------ Refraction of a pure alcohol/ water solution can be useful, but refractive index of a complex mixture is complex and not too useful for this kind of a simple determination if you have a variety of starting materials. Gas Chromatography is the best and easiest of all the methods discussed and probably cheaper than the TI instrument.. - --------------------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Apr 1999 15:22:24 -0500 From: RCAYOT at solutia.com Subject: Diacetyl, Judging I have been following a few of the threads here and would like ot add a few comments about Diacetyl. I was never quite able to taste Diacetyl until a homebrewer friend of mine took some on a pub/brewery crawl and Ray McNiel tasted the beer..."Major Diacetyl" he claimed! We all tasted the beer, and then we knew... AHHHH... THATS what Diacetyl tastes like! I now know I have a very sensitive palate for diacetyl, and taste it in many beers. One recent example of that was a bottle of Sam Adams Boston LAGER, had a very noticable Diacetyl taste, I was very dissapointed, as that once very good beer is now highly variable. In another note, at a recent judging, I tasted diacetyl in several beers, but one or both of the other judges could not in some of the beers, since it was light american lagers it was unappropriate. In several other of the beers in that flight, one judge detected (smelled and tasted?) fusel alcohols, I was unable to discern those particular characteristics. Having said all of that, judging is obviously going to be a very fallable process untill all judges become educated enough to be sensitized to all of the various flavors aromas. This is why the advancement in judging rank is based on both test score and experience points. If we do our job correctly, we should be educating each other while judging, I would have liked to have spent som etime with the judge who could detect fusel alcohols in order to educate my palate to that characteristic, but we were far from my home and an opportunity did not arise to do so. I have been able to educate the members of my homebrew club as to the ability to detect diacetyl, and some of them have become so aware of it that they now notice it in thier beers and try to correct the problem, whereas before they would not necessarily know "what that taste is" Another example is a German Light Lager I submitted that had a load of diacetyl in it. I submitted it because I wanted feedback, and to see how the judges would percieve this beer. well, the comments were about evenly split with half the judges detecting DMS, the other half detecting Diacetyl. There is no excessive DMS in that beer, at least from what I can taste, there IS however Diacetyl. does that mean that two of the judges mis-took diacetyl for DMS? In my opinion very likely. does that make me angry or upset? heck no! I understand the judging process, and appreciate all the efforts judges make in evaluating my beers. In fact, more than one judge said the beer, except for that one fault was very good, and right on style! what I did do, was to pitch fresh yeast in the keg of that lager when I bottled for the competition, left the keg out of the refrigerator for several days, a post lagering diacetyl rest. After about another week in the refrigerator, I cannot detect any diacetyl in this beer! In fact this beer now is highly enjoyable! Sorry for ambling on, but I would like to add one more comment, and question for the judging and homebrewing community: which is more important in judging a beer, adherence to style, or quality of ingredients/process etc. In other words when faced with a delicious well crafted beer, that is clean, has the appropriate characteristics for the most part that is only slightly out of range in say bitterness, or gravity (if one belives one can detect that) and another that is right on in terms of color, head retention, mouth feel, malt/hop balance, for the style, but is just not there quality wise. by this I mean possibly old malt extract used, or poor quality yeast etc. These are process errors or faults, but I know that many judges would score the beers nearly equally, I for one would tend to give the better QUALITY beer more favorable marks than the more centered in style beer with processing faults. how about it judges, where do we stand on this topic? Roger Ayotte Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:42:37 -0600 From: Eric Dreher <ericd at reliantdata.com> Subject: Re: Sugar Substitute Trevor Good asks about corn sugar substitutes for a diabetic friend: Now I'm no expert on diabetes at all, but I thought the cause of problems is simply the sugar. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but once's yeast has done its job, then the sugar's turned to alcohol and CO2, thus no more sugar and therefore no longer presenting a problem, no? Do diabetics have problems with beer normally? Seems like another natural "wonder" of beer. Lucky for us, yeast isn't diabetic. Eric Dreher Austin, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:27:58 -0600 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: open fermenter? John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> writes: <<<<< At times, I have fermented in a sanke keg with a trash bag over it. It fills up like a hot air balloon and looks pretty cool (http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/varady/hbopferm.jpg ). What acronym would be used to describe this? >>>>> Sounds like a beer condom, must be SF (Safe fermenter). Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:18:04 -0500 From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> Subject: Aluminum & pH & temperature Anyone out there know when (at what pH and temp) aluminum begins to react with acidic solutions? I don't want to reopen the aluminum is ok/bad thread, but I am interested in hearing from anybody out there with some metalurgy knowledge. The reason I ask, is that I am thinking about using an aluminum pot as my HLT and only using aluminum for my boil kettle and am wondering at what pH does aluminum begin to react (and what effect 170degF heat has on that reaction). TIA, Dan Cole Roanoke, VA www.hbd.org/starcity/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 99 18:48:07 PST From: "David C. Harris" <hesbrau at onr.com> Subject: Oxidation of a-acetolactate Dave Burley identified a problem in my post on diacetyl formation. I stated that Ca++, Zn++ and Fe+++ would oxidize a-acetolactate into diacetyl. As he stated is unlikely that Ca++ or Zn++ could be involved in an oxidation reaction since they are already reduced and would need to be in elemental form to participate. I need to verify the source I took this information from. I do however stand by my statement that molecular oxygen is not required to oxidize a-acetolactate into diacetyl. "Molecular oxygen is not necessary for this oxidation and other electron donors, e.g. Cu++, Al++ or Fe+++ also increase the formation of diacetyl from a-acetolactate." M+BS 2nd Edition pg. 595. After reading this I am lead to believe the other information I have, confused which electron donors are involved. It is also interesting to note that the conversion of a-acetolactate into diacetyl is not an enzymatic reaction. "Both acetohydroxy acids are excreted by yeast and are non-enzymically converted, in the medium, to vicinal diketones" M+BS 2nd Edition pg. 595. I did not mean to imply in my original post that oxygen is not important in the production of diacetyl rather that it is not the only way to oxidize a-acetolatate. I will attempt to track down the other source that indicated Ca and Zn could participate in forming diacetyl and report my findings. David Harris Pflugerville (just north of Austin), Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:13:13 +0000 From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Alcohol Testing I'm interested in brewing some low alcohol beers. Before starting on the formulation of these beers I wanted to be able to assay for alcohol content in my basement brewery/laboratory. I conducted an experiment to test a method based on refractive index and specific gravity. Formulas used in this experiment are given below; Reference HBD #2986, March 24th, 1999, Louis Bonham ABV=(277.8851-277.4(SG)+0.9956(Brix)+0.00523(Brix^2) +0.000015(Brix^3))x(SG/0.79) I have a hand-held refractometer used for testing sugar in grape juice that will read 0 to 32 Brix. It's calibrated in 2 Brix increments. My narrow range hydrometers read in degrees Plato. Louis Bonham provided a formula for converting degrees P to specific gravity. SG=1.000019+(3.865613xPx10[^-3])+(1.296425xPx10[^-5]) +(5.701128xPx10[^-8]) Source for this formula: Siebert, K.J., Routine Use of a Programmable Calculator for Computing Alcohol, Real extract, Original Gravity & Calories in Beer, ASBC Journal, Vol.38, No. 1, p. 27 (1980). For the experiment I added (via buret) various volumes of grain alcohol (labeled 95% ABV) to a 250 ml volumetric flask. I filled to mark with Coors NA beer (labeled to contain NMT 0.5% ABV). The Coors NA was degassed. I assumed the labeled alcohol contents were correct in order to arrive at theoretical alcohol content of the samples. Samples were filled into colorless Corona bottles and were capped. Several days later I ran the tests. Sample Theo Test Differ- Growth # Alcohol Result ence % ABV % ABV 1 0.50 0.58 +0.08 yes 2 0.88 1.26 +0.36 yes 3 1.45 1.67 +0.22 yes 4 2.39 2.48 +0.09 yes 5 4.28 4.25 -0.03 no I'm trying to find a home test method that will give reliable results at about 1% ABV. These results leave some room for improvement but I only ran one sample at each dilution (I know...bad science and my only excuse is it required four Coors NA beers for this simple experiment). The narrow-range hydrometers allow for very good specific gravity measurements but the refractometer is calibrated in 2 Brix increments. You can estimate 1 Brix differences if you look hard enough. I think this is a lot of the problem. I'm going to try this again with multiple samples and see what the spread is. In addition to the alcohol determination I noticed that all of the samples had a slight haze except the 4.28% ABV dilution. It was crystal clear. Several days passed between sample preparation and testing and I had made no attempt to sanitize the bottles or lab glassware. It's no surprise beer will support microbial growth, just an observation. Bill Frazier Johnson County, Kansas Return to table of contents
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