---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Going to Europe..how much is beer? (Jon Bovard)
  Should kettle pH be 4.2-4.5 ? ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  re: Kraeusening ("Alan McKay")
  good head on brew ("Jim Kingsberg")
  Sucrose and SNPA ("Campbell, Paul SSI-TSEA-A")
  Yuppie or Hippie (Dave Burley)
  Mead/Cider/Melomel Questions (Thomas S Barnett)
  re: Brewing Urban Legend Legacy (Matthew Comstock)
  re: summer brewing (Lou.Heavner)
  Re-capping? ("Patrick Michael Flahie")
  Schaarbeek cherries (dolmans)
  Heather ale (Eric.Fouch)
  coffee/chocolate beer ("Bryan L. Gros")
  2nd All Grain, Comments please? (Badger Roullett)
  What temp. for main mash during decoction? ("Michael J. Westcott")
  Pitching rates and Brew-Sack (Kurt Kiewel)
  Italian Birra (ThomasM923)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Boneyard Brew-Off 6/12/99
* (http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/BUZZ/contest5.html);  Buzz-Off! 
* Competition 6/26/99 (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:02:51 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report

Lallemand Yeast and Lag Times..

Some have commented on a perception of long lag times in using Lallemand
products...
In my own practices I am used to seeing Lallemand yeasts in a 7 bbl
fermenter, pitched following rehydration/attemperation  at  approximately 6 pm,
show active bubbling in an airlock by 8 am the next day. However, when I
did, from time to time, fail to see this activity, I was pleased to note a
pH drop, thence reassuring me that the process was moving along. I never
failed to see CO2 evolution  at  the airlock within 24 hrs, even on the
apparently slower starts.

I am also, almost on a daily basis, receiving reports from brewers trying
our products, of exceptionally fast starts.

But this does not address the concerns of those that are seing what they
feel are long lags. And it seems to be true that there is some variation in
expectations of lag phase. But, whether or not the common view of the lag
phase length is accurate or not, I still must confess some slight confusion,
when I see these 2 different scenarios play out, in any one brewery, i.e.,
on the same equipment, with standardized practices of aeration,
rehydration/attemperation, etc.

I also feel that some of this comes from the fact that many in the
homebrewing community are accustomed to pitching an actively growing liquid
culture, that in many cases have been stepped up multiple times over many
days. It is no wonder to me that these folks are accustomed to seeing very
rapid starts, compared with dry yeast practice.

In communicating with Dr. Clayton Cone, he writes....

>The lag phase in textbook microbiological terms is usually less than one
hour for a actively >growing liquid yeast and about 3 hours for an Active
Dry Beer  (or Wine) Yeast. This means that >the yeast has adjusted itself to
its new environment and begins to bud and make new yeast >cells.
>There is usually a lot of yeast growth and fermentation before you see
bubbles.  The yeast >produces a lot of CO2 with out making bubbles, the CO2
dissolves until the wort is saturated >with CO2 then the bubbles begin.
>
>In the wine industry, some winemakers are satisfied if the bubbles start in
three days while >other get upset if there are no bubbles in 18 hours.  So
the same yeast is perceived to be slow >by one winemaker and fast by
another.

This should make George DePiro happy....BTW, best wishes on that brewery,
George!

>Methylene blue test for viability is a reasonably good test when the yeast
is actively growing >in a  wort.
>The test should be done several hours into the fermentation when the
yeast's cell wall is >thoroughly reconstituted.  The test measures the
ability of the yeast to turn the blue color >leuco (colorless). A healthy
live yeast cell will turn the blue color leuco.  A dead or >sometimes a
stressed cell will pick up the stain and remain blue. Some of the rehydrated
cells >take a while to develop the ability to turn the blue color to leuco.
If the test is done too >soon there will be a false high dead cell count.

The following comment from Dr. Cone relates to the presence of active
evolution in the airlock of CO2.

>Rob,
>Our beer and beer yeast researcher, Dr. Tobias Fishborn, at BRI, Montreal,
agrees with you. 14 >- 24 hours is reasonable.  He put in the caveat of
temperature. Lag phase in a 60F wort will be >considerable longer than a 75F
wort.
>The slow lag times do seem to go to completion reasonably rapidly. However,
it must make some >people nervous.
>
>Clayton

>From: "James McCrorie" <James at craftbrewing.freeserve.co.uk>
>Subject: Lallemand Nottingham Yeast
>Scientific analysis here in UK has established that Lallemand dried
>Nottingham Yeast is deficient of natural nutrients.  Lallemand (UK) have
>confirmed this and say they are working on the problem.  The advice is to
>use a good quality yeast nutrient at the rehydration stage.
>Hoppy brewing,
>James McCrorie

Now, this is news to me. Apparently, even our Tech Director for European
Operations is unaware of such. I would be most thankful for documentation of
these analyses, as I am still learning this field of brewing practice. I can
say that I find the advice of using a nutrient  at  rehydration to be foreign
to me, however. I want my yeast cells to get fully rehydrated, without any
nutrient, including wort......before I expose them to the big bad world out
there, including attemperation. I have always added my nutrients into the
kettle, 15/60 before end of boil. Indeed, our web page advises....

"N.B.: DO NOT combine the Fermaid with the rehydrated yeast slurry before
pitching."

But, the advice of using a yeast nutrient is not exclusive to our
products....in fact it is a common practice in many breweries throughout the
world, whether they use our products or not.

Again, let me reiterate my desire to learn more from all of you....and I
would welcome your response, either here on the hBD, or
privately...concerning your experiences with Lallemand's products. Your
concerns and successes are equally important, and I will do my best to aid
you in your pursuits. This variable lag phase phenomenon will be a focus of
mine.

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Lallemand Web Consultant
brewer at isunet.net
jethro at isunet.net

"There has never been a deficiency in our yeast.  There has perhaps been a
deficiency in the wort that our yeast will soon supplement." C. Cone





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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:25:17 +1000
From: Jon Bovard <jonbovard at uq.net.au>
Subject: Going to Europe..how much is beer?

Important questions...going to France and a lot of Europe at years end.
Need to Know prices of beers in
France, Germany, England, and of course Belgian.
I dont know what size serving they use in Europe so please
clafiy that for me also.

I will primarilly based in France, but i suppose i can get other
European beers in
France also from Alcohol stores (we call them 'bottle shops"
in australia-hehe )
Will also be going to other European countries for other
periods of time, so keen to
knows costs in Germany Belgian and anywhere else close.

Prices as bought from bars, supermarkets and anywhere else
m might have
forgotten...
U.S Dollars are fine if you dont know aussie dollars conersion rate.

Looking forward to it!!
Cheers
Jon
Australia




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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:55:21 -0400
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at unix.mail.virginia.edu>
Subject: Should kettle pH be 4.2-4.5 ?

I read somewhere that kettle pH should be around 4.2  Does this
sound right? I checked mine and it was closer to 5.2 with a
cooled sample. If 4.2 is correct would it change my hop
effeciency?
Thanks
Rick Pauly
Charlottesville,VA


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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:24:19 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: re: Kraeusening

In 3056 Scott Murman writes :

The volume of wort (speise) to add when kreusening (or kraeusening,

I respond :

The latter is one correct spelling.  Although the former
is indeed phonetically correct, it is not a proper spelling
of "kraeusening".  The only other spelling is to replace the
"ae" with "a-umlaut".

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay
OS Support			amckay at nortelnetworks.com
Small Site Integration		613-765-6843 (ESN 395)
Nortel Networks
Internal : http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/
External : http://www.bodensatz.com/
All opinions expressed are my own.


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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:24:33 -0500
From: "Jim Kingsberg" <jdkingsb at hewitt.com>
Subject: good head on brew

I dont think  foam or head retention is just aesthetic.  I took a brew tour
of Goose Island in Chicago and the head brewer explained that foam or head
helps retain the hop flavor and taste in a beer.  As an example, he poured
a brew for each of us, we smelled and tasted the brew with a head.  Then
placed our hand over the small sampler glass and vigourously shook to
de-carbonate.  Of course, the outgassing probably pulled bitterness and
aroma out of the beer in the glass, how ever flavor and hop taste
diminished as the tasting wore on.  Im not sure if this "experiment" proves
anything but does help in making the point.  Foam/head helps retain hop
flavor and aroma.

Jim Kingsberg
Fugowee (home) Brewery, Evanston, IL




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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:47:16 +0200
From: "Campbell, Paul SSI-TSEA-A" <Paul.R.Campbell at IS.shell.com>
Subject: Sucrose and SNPA

In HBD#3054 The sucrose discussion continued...

As a British brewer I am fascinated by the negative reactions some
brewers have when sucrose is mentioned in a recipe. I started 
brewing from UK produced kits and at the time was quite happy with
the 3.5lbs hopped malt extract to 2lbs of sucrose; it made cheap,
beer-ish liquid. Later in life (when spare $s were more plentiful)
my tastes matured and when I resumed brewing kits after a 2-3 year
rest, I thought the results were insipid and bland. All malt
(extract) beers tasted soo much better, and I could afford the
additional expense of buying cans of unhopped malt extract and
little bags of (reasonably) fresh hops. I still used sucrose
occasionally, because it allowed me to make small additions to the
SG, while always brewing in whole multiples of whatever unit
quantity of extract (1 can) that I could obtain. The cider taste was
undoubtedly masked by my enthusiastic (over)hopping if it was there
at all :-# I have always used sucrose for priming so wouldn't know
if the effect is detectable at this level or not. (I think not.)

Although my pale ales/bitters were good (IMO!), they were a bit too
thin (they would ferment down to 1.005 or so) so after more time
passed I moved on to obtaining crystal malt and used this as an
adjunct to add body to my brews. My final step was to move to
mainly all-grain brewing.

I guess that back in the '70s the sucrose opinions were founded
mainly on fact, but I think it has been taken a little too far,
and is "forbidden" for the wrong reasons. Sucrose is just as much
a brewing adjunct as anything else, and should be used sensibly
(you don't really want to use 80% Chocolate malt in your beer do
you? Yeah I know it's not the same but...)

Quality adjuncts such as crystal malt and wheat malt etc. were not
readily available to home brewers, so the majority (kit and extract)
of home brewed beers were probably characteristically thin due to
the lack of control over the wort (most extracts I've come across
are pretty fermentable). Too much sugar has the effect of making
these thin beers even thinner (dry)...... not desireable IMO. A
lot of the books published at the time were written to lead the
large base of kit customers (used to dumping large amounts of sugar
into their pot) into more advanced forms of home brewing -> extract
& adjunct -> all-grain; i.e. If you want cheap, thin beer - use a
kit and follow the instructions wrote, otherwise here's some
guidance to make better beer....

I seem to remember that the UK home brewing market at the time was
80% beer kits (and 80% of that was "dry" lager kits). It may still
be.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------
On the same topic also in HBD#3054 Nigel Porter wrote....

"I think it is quite common for breweries over here to use 'brewing 
sugar' (a euphamism for white cane sugar I'm sure) to increase the 
alcohol content of the beer quite cheaply - although on a recent 
visit to the King & Barnes brewery, the brewer said that they don't 
use sugar as it is too expensive - malt is a more cost effective 
option."

AFAIK "Brewing Sugar" is in fact Glucose (now as powder, used to be
sold in solid lumps, or chips); which probably *is* more expensive
than a little extra malt..... and won't affect the flavour of the
beer directly (but will result in a drier brew, if desired).

- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Finally I'm glad to report that I have now tasted SNPA. Bought as an
import bottled beer at my local shop (Oddbins). I'm not sure what it
should taste like fresh though? ;-}

Regards,
Paul Campbell
"Still trying to perfect my Fuller's London Pride and ESB clones" 
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK


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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:01:02 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Yuppie or Hippie

Brewsters:

Dick Dunn says I confused Yuppie with Hippie when
incorrectly characterizing CharlieP. Perhaps, but I do
not wish to discuss such esoterics, but only to say that
I was searching for a reason for his choice of corn
sugar in place of sucrose.

I pointed out that pioneer HB books
had it wrong also.  I also had evidence of cidery
taste ( I noticed it, BTW, independent of anyone
else's suggestion and before I had heard of
CharlieP or any other HB book author) when I
prepared beers in the late 60s in which the sugar
solution was not boiled and made up a major part
of the wort.

Please do not misuderstand. My respect for
CharliePs' role in organizing the homebrewing
activity, such as has been done, is very high.
I differ with him in his brewing techiques, on
which I have commented often.   Unfortunately,
my humor is easy to misunderstand in this
medium and I should use {8^) more often.

As far as license plates with PIES written
on them, it recalled the 60s story about that
engineering fraternity that named their dog
"Pi" and members persistently ran around
the sororities calling out "Here Pi". 


And you thought the "Nerds" were fictional. {8^)
- -----------------------------------
Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley

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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:22:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: Thomas S Barnett <barnets at mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Mead/Cider/Melomel Questions

Hello all,
	I made my first mead about a month ago using 15 lbs. of honey and 
yeast labs sweet mead yeast with a large starter. Fermentation was
explosive and finished in a few weeks.  This past weekend i decided
to divide the mead into 1 gallon batches; adding blueberries to 2 gallons,
peaches to 1 gallon, and leaving the remaining 2 gallons as is.  Further,
i decided to use the dregs from the mead fermentation to ferment some
apple cider.  i aerated the apple juice well, threw it on top of the mead
yeast, added yeast nutrient, and expected to see active fermentation.
After two days,however, no fermentation is present in the cider or the
melomels.  The apple juice i used was made from 100% fresh apples, no
preservatives, and the blueberries and peaches were fresh. Have others had
similar problems?  What is the best course of action?  Did i simply wait
too long, (1 month after pitching), to add the fruit and cider? Any
suggestions/comments would be appreciated.  Thanks.  Tom Barnett.



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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Brewing Urban Legend Legacy

Dick Dunn described the use of table sugar in
homebrewing from a historical perspective in HBD#3056.
 Aside from telling an interesting story, he suggests
an 'experiment.' 

"To answer (1) you'd have to try a 70's-style recipe."

I am pretty sure that a few readers have used table
sugar in their recipes.  I think the Mr. Beer kits,
sold in such stores as Homeplace, use table sugar in
their recipes.  A friend here at work tells me he uses
table sugar in all his recipes.  I suggest we've done
the experiment, we just need to report the results. 
Anyone out there care to report?  

I've used 1# brown sugar in a brown ale with 6# DME
and noticed no 'cidery' flavors.  It did lend other
subtle flavors, though - sweet, rum-like, good stuff.

Thanks for the historical background of another
momily, Dick.  Interesting reading.

Matt Comstock in Cincinnati

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:40:03 -0500
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: re: summer brewing

     "Nix, Andrew" <anix at bechtel.com> posts:

     Normally, I do not brew in the summer, but this year I am determined
     to brew
     as much as possible, so I will.  Does anyone have any suggestions on
     beating
     the summer heat???  I live in a 2 bedroom apt. and brew in the
     kitchen.  I
     usually ferment in the "den" with the blinds closed.  With the current
     heat
     in the east (well it's cooled down a LITTLE), I have had the AC
     cranked.  I
     want to insure that I do not ruin my beer due to huge swings in
     fermentation, etc.  A brew fridge is NOT an option.  Using a wet towel
     and a
     fan MIGHT be.  Any suggestions would be helpful!!!

     { snip }

     I have brewed year 'round for years here in the heart of Texas and
     along the gulf coast.  What I have done to keep the fermenter cool in
     my 75 DegF dining room is to put it in a 24 Qt enamel pot that was my
     kettle before I did full boils and which now serves as a prechiller
     for my immersion chiller.  I ferment in a plastic pail which is
     sitting in the pot filled about halfway up with cool water.  Then I
     put a black Tee shirt (Geaux Saints!) over the fermenter to provide
     evaporative cooling and block any stray light waves from penetrating
     the plastic.  I found that the tee didn't always sufficiently wick up
     water, so the added trick I do is to periodically lay a few ice cubes
     on top.  As they melt, the water is taken up by the tee, so there is
     never any free water on top.  I have a box fan which I use sometimes,
     but it is old and loud and the spousel unit discourages using it when
     any of her friends are visiting.  I can keep the temp at 68 DegF
     without the fan and it seems to stay very constant over the week or so
     it is in the fermenter.  I really want to build one of Ken Schwartz's
     SOF chillers, but I'm too cheap to go out and buy all the stuff new,
     especially the polystyrene, and have had no success so far in
     scrounging.  If I am brewing a lager, I ferment in a frigerator so it
     really doesn't matter if it is summer or winter.

     I found a bigger problem was spoilage bacteria/wild yeast during the
     hot weather.  A tip I have followed which seems to have made a
     difference is spraying down the kitchen with Lysol disinfectant spray
     about 10 minutes before racking cool wort from kettle to fermenter and
     using a clean dishtowel to cover both the kettle and fermenter during
     racking.  I also do the same now anytime my yeast/starter cultures are
     exposed.  The Great HBD Palexperiment was a tremendous eye opener for
     me on my sanitation.  I also now routinely do wort stability tests on
     unpitched and pitched wort, although the name and purpose is different
     for the latter. Even when the kitchen is not immaculate (and it never
     is with at least 4 kids under 7 yrs old) my WST's indicate significant
     improvement.

     Cheers!

     Lou Heavner - Austin, TX


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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:24:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Patrick Michael Flahie" <flahiepa at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re-capping?

I recently (1~1.5 months ago) bottled a high-strength IPA.
It was my first all-grain batch, and due to the other worries
of the day I didn't get an O.G. measurement.  I believe now
that it was bottled too early, because many of the caps are
beginning to come uncrimped.  No caps have popped, but the
edges look like caps that haven't been fully attached.

Question #1: Should I be worried?  (i.e. Do I have a case of
Patriot missles in my basement?)

Question #2: What is a good way to re-cap these?  I want these
to age before drinking (at least some of them).  Can I just
use my capper to press down on the current caps?  Should
I boil new caps and quickly replace them?  Or is there another
intermediate step that needs to be taken.

I have only tried one, and it tasted a little rough but good.
I'd like to have the chance for my first all-grain batch to
come into its own and not end up down the drain (or all over
the walls).

Thanks in advance.
Patrick Flahie
Sock Monkey Brewing Company
Jackson, MI



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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:29:49 +0000
From: dolmans at mail.tss.net
Subject: Schaarbeek cherries

Hello
	I know that there has been some discussion on the nature and 
availability of Schaarbeek cherries.   Originally got involved in 
this discussion as a way of giving back to the HBD for all the 
learning that I have done here.  Since my father is a beer lover and 
interested in my hobby (gee I wonder why?) as well as a retired 
farmer living in Holland I thought that finding a source for 
Schaarbeek cherries would be easy.  
	I had a lot of communication with several individuals about this 
matter and it seems that the actual prunus variety that is 
Schaarbeek is unclear at this point.  As several posts to this forum 
have indicated it is also expensive to import fruit stock for 
grafting since it must be tested for potentially harmful virus etc.  
	My father has had contact in Belgium with a 
supplier of every kind of traditional cherry and fruit of the 
lowlands (so this supplier claims).  Below is the address so that you
can contact him.  
  L. Royen,  Bosschelstraat 21    
  3724 Viermaal. 
 Belgie
 Telephone# (32) 12 237001
I believe that (32) is the country code.  My father talked to him last
Friday and the gentleman has both plant material and grafting material
available.  Apparantely there are varieties of both prunus cesarus and
prunus agium available.  
	I will not be persuing this source, indeed I have no wish to get 
into growing my own brewing supplies, but hope that this may be 
useful to someone with deeper pockets or a more dedicated approach 
than I can muster.  
	


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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:25:00 -0400
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Heather ale

From: hal <hwarrick at springnet1.com>
Subject: Heather ale

Does any one have a recipe for a " Heather Ale "?
My wife and I would like to brew this for the up
coming summer solstice. We've heard  of this type
of ale but can't find any recipes. Should we gather
Heather branchs, flowers, or what ? Any ideas will
be most helpful.....Hal

The following is a excerpt form Stephen Buhner's _Sacred and Healing Herbal
Beers_, reproduced here without permission:
Bruce Williams produces a commercial heather brew, and this is his recipe for
a homebrewed heather ale:
6# US 2 row barley
10.5 oz amber malt (crystal?)
12.75 cups lightly pressed heather tops (flowers?)
3/10 oz Irish moss
5 gallons water

Mash grains at 153 for 90 minutes. sparge to collect 5 gallons.  Add 0.5
gallons of pressed heather tips and boil 90 minutes.
Run hot wort through a sieve filled with 2 cups heather tips* into the
fermenter.  Cool, pitch yeast and ferment at 61F for 7 to 10 days.
When gravity reaches 1.015, remove 0.5 gallons of ale, add two cups heather
flowers (he does say *flowers* here) and steep at 158F for 15 minutes, strain
and return to the fermenter.

Excerpt finished.
This is a rather cryptic recipe, in that it can be assumed that this will
produced a 5 gallon batch, but if followed to the letter, you should only end
up with about 3.5 gallons of wort.  I would modify these instructions to
sparge more (6 gallons, depending on your spargent SG) and boiling shorter (60
minutes) to end up with about 5 gallons of wort.
The part about running hot wort through a sieve (*) is probably an attempt to
simulate a heather flower hopback, but I would suggest adding the heather
flowers at knockout, to avoid....dare I say it.....Hot Side Aeration.
The book also goes into the history of Heather Ale and Mead, indicating that
during the eradication and assimilation of the originators of heather
beverages, The Picts, an early dwarvish people indigenous to the Britain and
the Scottish Highlands, the Pictish brewmasters would die rather than devulge
their recipes.


Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBewery
Kentwood MI




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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:51:24 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: coffee/chocolate beer

"Tim Holland" <tholland at alaskalife.net> wrote:

>Most, if not all, of the coffee beers I've tried have a very astringent,
>chemical flavor that I personally find horrid.  The one that I did find
>tolerable had a huge residual sweetness provided by large amounts of crystal
>malt and a healthy dose of chocolate malt.  Do you just love coffee, or do
>you want to be awake and "buzzed"?  :-)  A very sweet stout with coffee
>might be enjoyable, but you need a lot of dark malts to cover the solvent
>flavor provided by the coffee. 

I'm suprised you describe the coffee flavor as a sovent or chemical 
flavor. 
However, I've found a similar experience with chocolate in beer. Chocolate,
as we know, is quite bitter. That bitterness, especially with a dark grain
roastyness, can be overwhelming. Chocolate only works when the beer has
some residual sweetness and body, to give a creamyness that complements
the chocolate bitterness. Probably the same with coffee. When it works, 
it is quite good.

*******
Nigel says:
>>Here's one to raise a few blood pressures.  Is there any practical
>>benefit
>>to having a thick creamy head on a glass of beer??
>
>Over here in the UK it seems a very regional thing, and is 
>constantly a source of argument between northern and southern 
>drinkers.

OK, but who's right!?!?



Bryan Gros    gros at bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA

Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off
http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm



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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:10:02 -0700
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: 2nd All Grain, Comments please?

This weekend I accomplished my second all grain ever.  (third if you count
that 1503 AD English ale creation)  I have been brewing for about 5 years,
mostly partial mash, and extract.  I think this one went well, but I am sure
I could use some tune-ups.  This is my first time brewing in the garage (not
near my house at all, I have a tiny apt.) so it was interesting what I
didn't have.  I had no sink, or measuring cups, etc.  Questions are marked
with a **Q** symbol.

Recipe:  Eyebright Amber Ale
6 lbs.	2-row malt
1 lb	Honey Malt (Gambrinus)
2 lbs. 	Honey (Eastern Washington Thistledown honey, unprocessed)
1 oz.	Fuggles 	4.9 Alpha	 60 min boil
1 oz.	Fuggles		4.9 Alpha	 5 min boil
6 bags	Chamomile Tea (Safeway brand)  15 min boil
2 pk.	Lallemand Nottingham (pitched direct to fermentor)

Malt:  I ground the malt in my homejob Marga mill,  I didn't have a spark
plug gapper, so I just fiddled with the settings until I got grain that was
cracked in the hull, and the inner part was in 4-6 pieces.  I was gonna run
it again and get a finer crush, but my wrist got tired on the drill (carpal
tunnel) as my drill doesn't have a lock down.  (**Q** any way to fake this?)

Mash: Poured grain into cooler with ring of copper with slashes on the
bottom (tm) false bottom thingie.  added ~1.75 gallons (no measuring device)
 at  169 deg.  stirred up real good.  temp settled at 155.2 deg.  Capped and
let sit for 60 min.  popped top, and found grain at 152.0.

Sparge:  I recirculated the first bit of runoff till no more husks appeared.
then I turned it to a slow trickle (which fell about 3 feet to the bucket
below... **Q** is that bad???!?  I didn't have a hose that fit the outlet of
my mash tun)  while pouring 3 gallons of 170 deg water onto a pan lid
sitting in the mash slowly.  Collected about 4 gallons of wort  at  1.031
Gravity.  (**Q** is that a good yield? I have no idea)

Boil: Siphoned the above wort into boiling kettle, added Honey, and turned
of the roaring jet engine burner thingie (tm) and brought to a boil real
quick like.  170k Btu burner is nice.   added hops at start of boil.  at 45
minutes, cut tags and strings off of 6 packets of Chamomile Tea from
Safeway, and tossed into boil.  at 55 minutes added last oz. of hops. Cooled
with tangled coil of copper thingie (tm) real quick like, and siphoned to a
glass carboy.  

Fermentor:  yield: about 2 - 2 1/2 gallons.  gravity was about 1.080 ????!?!
**Q** can that be right?  I topped up with water to about the 4.5 gallon
mark.  siphoned into a hydrojar, and got 1.068 OG.  seems really high to
me...  tested with two separate hydros to make sure...

Yeast:  since I had no sink, or easy to get to kitchen stove, or even a
glass.. I just pitched right into the Carboy two packets of yeast.  attached
a blowoff tube, and started cleaning up...

I didn't have any major problem doing this batch, and I was pleasantly
surprised how easy it went.  I just hope the beer turns out.  :)  its hard
to brew without a kitchen, but its possible.  I await comments on my process
questions, and such.

badger

(Seattle Washington, where-ever that is in rennerian co-ords)



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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:18:20 -0700
From: "Michael J. Westcott" <mikew at sedona.net>
Subject: What temp. for main mash during decoction?

I have done a few single-decoction wheat beers and have
always held the main mash at 122 F while performing the decoction
and then adding the two and raising the combined whole to 147 F.
Any ideas or recommendations as to continuing this process or doing
something different?
thanks, mike
mikew at sedona.net





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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:25:44 -0600
From: Kurt Kiewel <kiewel at mail.chem.tamu.edu>
Subject: Pitching rates and Brew-Sack

Hi All,

I'm a new reader of HBD and just caught the tail end of the Siebel
discussion.  HBD is a great forum.  Makes me feel like I'm not so isolated
way out here in College Station, Texas.

I'm an extract brewer and I'm at the stage where I spend a lot of time
contemplating yeast.  Brett Spivy's question about a qualitative method for
calculating yeast cell count is exactly what I wanted to ask.

Brett A. Spivy writes:

What I would really like to see posted is
something like:   HYPOTHETICAL ALERT ***     From a Smack Pack of WYEAST
#1234 (assuming a cell count of
X-{real number here}), a starter of 3 cups water and 1/2 cup DME will
step-up to a cell count of Y in a time period of T1.
You can then double the volume of starter wort (6 cups of water and 1
cup of DME or Super Wort) and in T2 days/hours you
can reasonably expect to have a cell count of Z in ~2 liters [litres] of
starter which will sufficiently pitch to Five (5) gallons of
wort.

I did my research and found lots of info in the archives on yeast
propagation.  Most of which include slurries and paste and cooling...  This
is bit too much effort for my stage of brewing.  I step-up Wyeast from the
50ml packet to 200 and then 1000ml of a 1.050 wort made from light DME
(total vol. = 1250ml).   Everything is done at 68 deg.  I just swirl it all
up and pour it in the primary.  It seems to work well,  BUT I still would
like to know just how many of those little guys I'm dumping in.  Perhaps
someone with a "yeast-countometer" is out there and can or has done the
experiment.

Another common theme seems to be repitching yeast collected from the
fermenter.  The difficulty I have with this idea is sanitation.  When
propagating yeast form the Wyeast packet I am certain that it is
uncontaminated.  I can sterilize 200ml and 1000ml of wort and use sterile
transfer techniques easily.  I think I pitch uncontaminated yeast.  However
I don't sterilize the 6 gal. of brewing water.  Also how would I remove the
spent hop particles from the yeast?  Perhaps harvest them form the
secondary?  In either case sterile transfer technique from a 6 gal. carboy
could be difficult.  Any suggestions or thoughts that would reduce my fear
of harvesting yeast from a fermenter would be great?

- -------

On another note, I found something called a brew-sack at a garage sale.
You just add hot water to dissolve the liquid extract inside  then add cold
water, pitch yeast, screw on the cap and wait.  I beefed it up a bit by
pitching Weast Am. Ale from a 250ml starter and oxygenated with pure O2.
It has a valve that releases pressure when it gets to high but keeps in
enough for carbonation.  I "brewed" the thing last weekend and now the sack
is rock hard.  If it explodes in my freezer I won't be happy.

Any bets on how it will turn out?  When it's done you dispense it directly
from the sack.  I guess that means I'll have to have some friends over
drink all 14 liters in one shot.

Thanks,
Kurt Kiewel




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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:10:51 EDT
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Italian Birra

Jeff Porterfield wrote in HBD #3056:

"...I've never heard of an Italian beer.  Are there any? Just wondering..."

Last year I came across something called Birra Moretti La Rossa, which is 
apparently an Italian version of a Vienna Marzen. I remember enjoying it. 
I've also had something called Birra Peroni, although that was sometime in 
the very distant past. I do see both around from time to time.

I would like to suggest a site that I have found useful for answering 
questions like Jeff's...

http://www.tastings.com/

There you will find reviews of wines, beers and spirits. I am not going to 
say that everyone will agree on their ratings, but it is a good tool for 
locating the beers of say,
Bermuda, Cyprus or Singapore.

I am not a...,just a...

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


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