HOMEBREW Digest #3160 Wed 03 November 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Jack And I Retired At Forty ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  I ain't Brenda, my brother was trying to be funny ("Dan Kiplinger")
  Jack ("Dan Kiplinger")
  RE: The Flavor ("Campbell, Paul R SSI-TSEA-A")
  AHA, BATF and Eisbock (Dan Cole)
  plambics??? (Rod Prather)
  Idophor troubles (Ballsacius)
  Dry Hops & Heat (John Varady)
  10 gallon Cornies ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  RIMS question ("J. Doug Brown")
  Zymurgy Criticisms ("Foster Jason")
  Lager Aroma ("Houseman, David L")
  Pellet Hops / mash thickness (Nathan Kanous)
  The Microwave? (Nathan Kanous)
  Aventinus clone ("Mercer, David")
  homebrew happy hour (Jeff Hall)
  re: Old Ale Fetsival ("Nigel Porter")
  first wort hopping (alone) (C Epp)
  beer vs. wine making ("Curt Speaker")
  Muntons Wheat Malt (Liz Blades)
  plambic,sake, sanitation (Jim Liddil)
  nosey hops, acidic sparge, limits to growth (Dave Burley)
  Primary Seal, Vanilla Porter ("Jeffry D Luck")
  Translation URL - sorry! ("Sean Richens")
  TRUB XI Competition Results ("Gary Clayton")
  first pilsner ("scott")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:18:39 +1100 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at infoflex.com.au> Subject: Jack And I Retired At Forty Well this isn't quite true. I must have failed the course also. It was my plan to produce vast amounts of homebrew and make a fortune. I have produced vast amounts of homebrew but am still working at well over forty. What is your secret Jack? I wonder if there is a market for this really flash cheese mill I am working on. That is, if Jack doesn't beat me to it! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 03:51:18 -0500 From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com> Subject: I ain't Brenda, my brother was trying to be funny I apologize for the "Brenda(get used to the new name)" on my address. My brother seemed to think it was hilarious to come to town and change my name in my prefrences. I am still interested in any info in used 10 gal. corneys. Also, (to all of you metallurgists out there) what is the best way to make those ugly corney exteriors look new? Dan Kiplinger (not Brenda) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 03:54:42 -0500 From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com> Subject: Jack I am relatively new to the post but I am confused. Is Jack Schmidling that much of a defensive prick or am I missing something. I know that "flaming" is both common and acceptable but golly! The few posts from him sound like he is trying to make up for something that he doesn't have. What's up with the bragging about being retired? He obviously is not retired if has his name on what the neighbor kids are producing. Who's in charge of quality??!! Hey, the Easymasher is a cool invention to get people into all-grain with a minimal investment. I am all for that and I respect it also. But "the better mouse trap" is (I think) going a bit too far. (ask Mike Zindler) Dan Kiplinger Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:14:16 +0100 From: "Campbell, Paul R SSI-TSEA-A" <Paul.R.Campbell at is.shell.com> Subject: RE: The Flavor >But that's not what I said. Or at least it's not what I meant to say! Agreed ;-> >What I meant to say was that perhaps the diacetyl in combination with >the caramel-like flavors from the malt give the caramel flavor he's >looking for. I would never suggest that diacetyl by itself smells >like caramel. But aromas combine synergistically sometimes, and this >might be one of those times. I'm with you on this, honest. Crystal malt (at least the stuff I can get hold of) is more nutty than caramel to my taste buds. Now, diacetyl may "influence" my perception of this nuttiness (sp?) towards a more caramel flavour (the buttery taste rounding off the nutty). >For example, at least to my nose, the combination of East Kent >Goldings hops with high diacetyl ends up smelling like rancid butter. >Separately, they're nice (or at least tolerable in the case of the >diacetyl) but together.... YUK! Does that mean you don't like Fuller's ESB? Or do I infer you don't think that diacetyl is a huge factor in this beer (at least not enough for the YUK effect!) On second thoughts, perhaps we shouldn't go there........ :^) Hoppy brewing, Paul. Aberdeen Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 05:40:32 -0500 From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> Subject: AHA, BATF and Eisbock Those of you who have been around for a while remember the "legality of Eisbock production thread" of 1996 and 1997. Well, in digging through the archives one of the last messages on that thread was one by Oliver Weatherbee on Aug 15, 1997 indicating that he had contacted Jim Parker of the AHA re: this thread and Jim had agreed that this is something that the AHA should be involved in (confirming the legality of Eisbock production with the BATF). I've searched the archives for the AHA's posting, and haven't found anything. Did the AHA contact the BATF and get us an official ruling and I just missed it? Dan Cole Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 06:16:47 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: plambics??? Can anyone give a good example of a Plambic in a commercial bottle. I have never tasted one and I would like to get a feel (or a taste) for this mysterious Belgian brew. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 06:57:36 EST From: Ballsacius at aol.com Subject: Idophor troubles I have a concern. I recently transferred idophor(iodine) out of a carboy and transferred beer from the primary carboy into this carboy. I did not rinse the carboy containing the idophor, or the siphon hoses before i transferred. I usually use bleach and rinse evrything, but i was under the impression that idophor was more effective and did not need to be rinsed. Now I am concerened, should I have rinsed? Is my first all-grain of the new brewing season down the tubes? Will I have to dump this batch? Any help would be appreciated . Thank You! Bob Fesmire Madman Brewery Pottstown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:41:36 -0500 (EST) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Dry Hops & Heat Alan writes: > Jeff, it sounds like you want more hop FLAVOR not bitterness. If so, you > should MINIMIZE the time you steep the hops to make a hop tea. Unlike the > alpha acids, many of the flavor compounds are volatile (will be driven off > and lost with increased time) and heat-labile (destroyed be heating). If I > were you, I'd take my cue from the best advice of tea afficionados - steep > the tea in water that is less than boiling, and not too long. George Fix recommends steaming dry hops for 10-15 mins before introducing them to the beer. He suggests this not to sanitize the hops but says that it produces a "rounder" and more preferable hop character. This information can be found in his book "An Analysis of Brewing Techniques". John John Varady The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Boneyard Brewing Custom Neon Beer Signs For Home Brewers Glenside, PA Get More Information At: rust1d at usa.net http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 07:14:17 -0700 From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net> Subject: 10 gallon Cornies Brenda asks where she can find 10 gallon cornies. I used to work at a homebrew shop in VA that mail orders used 10 gal cornies. They have a web presence at www.vintagecellar.com and you can email them at sales at vintagecellar.com. Hope this helps, Matthew in CO. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 08:49:45 -0500 From: "J. Doug Brown" <jbrown at labyrinth.net> Subject: RIMS question Hello All, I saw the question posted a day or two back about starting a session out with cold water and then using the RIMS to heat the water to mashing temperatures. If a second thermocouple is downstream of the heating element then excess wort temperatures could be avoided and also scorching could be reduced. If this type of scheme using two thermocouples were used, one upstream and one downstream in a RIMS with a custom pic controller, can anybody provide input as to problems, or ideas to improve this idea. What I had in mind in with the custom temperature controller is this: while ((upstream_temp < desired_temp) && ((downstream_temp - upstream_temp) < delta_max)) && (downstream_temp < (desired_temp + max_overshoot))) { heat_it() } Sorry for the syntax, however it is how I think. In this scenario delta_max could be adjusted to prevent schorching and max_overshoot could be adjusted to prevent excess temperatures entering the wort and causing unwanted reactions. From start (cold water ie 60F) to mash temp, would a time of 20 minutes to achieve the mash temp cause any adverse affects to the wort? When heating the wort in a RIMS system how much would one recommend the heated outflow from the heat chamber be above the desired mashing temperature? Is delta 5F enough is delta 10F too much? My intuition is that the heated outflow has to be a few degrees warmer than the desired temperature to be able to quickly heat up the grain bed and wort. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If this system works it would be a 2 keg system, 1 for the RIMS, 1 for the brewpot. Thanks for the advice and suggestions Doug Brown - -- -------------------------------------------------------- / J. Doug Brown Sr. Software Engineer \ < jbrown at labyrinth.net jbrown at ewa.com > \ http://www.labs.net/jbrown http://www.ewa.com / Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 07:52:35 PST From: "Foster Jason" <jasfoster at hotmail.com> Subject: Zymurgy Criticisms I feel I need to respond to Donald Lake's post in HBD #3157 criticizing the latest issue of Zymurgy. I have not yet received my copy (as a Canadian, I tend to be delayed a few days waiting for the American publication to work its way northward), but I know Donald's criticisms are common to every issue. As near as I can tell, his main criticism is as follows: snip >>there were absolutely no articles that anyone would classify as even >>slightly advanced or technical in regard to homebrewing. << Now, this is clearly a factually accurate statement. However, it misses the point. Zymurgy is not intended as an "advanced or technical" magazine. It does not bill itself to be one and does not promise to satisfy the advanced homebrewers needs. To be clear, Zymurgy is aimed at the novice and intermediate brewer. It is tailoring its articles to a broader cross-section of homebrewers. If you don't like the articles, it probably has more to do with where you are at as a brewer than with the magazine. I wish those who criticize would recognize this important difference. Put another way, Donald and others, you have outgrown Zymurgy. Which is okay. Just don't trash the magazine for your growth. I, too, lament its shrunken size of late, but again that is not their fault. It is the hard, cold realities of economics. Would you rather they do three more big issues and then go bankrupt? As a final note, I personally have been enjoying the addition of articles highlighting "classic" commercial beers and on other "non-brewing" aspects of beer. I am a homebrewer, but I am also a fan of beer. I want to read about the different aspects of beer, not just the technical debates. However, that is 100% personal opinion and I in no way intend it as a judgement or criticism of anyone else. I think we all need to relax and recognize that there is room for all of us - -- and all levels -- in the hobby. Yours in good beer, Jason Foster Edmonton, Alberta Canada ______________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:58:00 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Lager Aroma Dave Burley says "I disagree with many BJCP judges and others who say a good lager should not have a hop aroma. I agree with Dr. Pivo, Roger Ayotte and other rebels who say they should." Which lager would that be? Given the broad range of lager styles, it's natural that some, Pilsners, Bohemian and German, would have a hop aroma. Other lagers should not, and don't. Of course you could dry hop a bock with Cascades and have an interesting new style, er beer since a style is a collection of characteristics that have developed over time or been adopted and accepted as defining a particular type of beer, not a one off. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 09:59:08 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Pellet Hops / mash thickness Paul, You mentioned that you use pelletized English hops. I was under the impression that in Europe they make plugs to "preserve" hops and in the US we make pellets. That being said, English hops would have to travel from Europe to the US to be pelletized. Lots of time in transit could lead to oxidation problems with the finished pellets. Your experience suggests otherwise. I don't recall where I got the idea that "plugs are European and pellets are American" and I'd readily accept someone with more knowledge telling me I'm nuts....that way, I'd start using more pelletized European hops. However, as you suggest, regardless of how / when they got pelletized, if they work, who cares? Regarding PU and the mash thickness / alpha amylase stability, yada, yada, yada, don't forget that PU undergoes an extensive decoction mash which could provide for the "rich dextrinous wort" rather than a "thin mash at 146 deg F." I tend to believe that it's the decoction that leads to the final result, not the "stability of alpha amylase at 146 degF." Just my opinion. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 10:10:31 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: The Microwave? Dave Burley inspired me to ask this one. Has anybody ever used the microwave to conduct a cereal mash? I could easily handle a 15 minute saccharification rest and then just microwave the rest for the previously mentioned 45 minutes (corn grits). This should avoid any problems with scorching, shouldn't it? I guess it may just be time to give it a shot. I wouldn't expect quite the same flavor, as some level of melanoidin development would occur in the "pot on the stove" but stirring for 45 minutes doesn't sound like fun, either. Any thoughs? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:44:48 -0800 From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org> Subject: Aventinus clone Dan asked about making an Aventinus-type weizenbock. First, get Eric Warner's book, if you can find it. I've brewed several batches of this beer, and each time I pare back the complexity of the recipe, with little or no paring back of the complexity of flavor. The basic recipe is simple: Use ~60% German wheat (I use Weyermann wheat malt, which looks almost red) and the rest dark Munich malt, in quantities sufficient to produce a 1.075 o.g. wort. To be authentic, you need to do a double decoction. But I have found that cheating, using a step infusion and adding a few ounces of chocolate malt (about 1.5% of the total grain bill) saves time and still produces an excellent beer. Keep mashout and sparge temperatures high to avoid a stuck runoff. Hop to about 17 IBU's with a little hop flavor (I use Mt. Hood, because I have a bunch in the freezer, but I think Liberty is more authentic. Add about 1/4 of the hops in the final 20 minutes of the boil.) Boil for 90 minutes. Pitch a lot of Weihenstephan yeast and aerate well. Watch the fermentation temperature. I think I remember Warner writing that Aventinus is fermented around 60F, but I can't get Weihenstephan yeast to work at that temperature (they must pitch a LOT of yeast) so I try to keep it around 68F. High kreuzen is explosive (make sure you have a lot of headspace in your fermenter or use a blow-off tube with a draining vessel that can hold a lot of spooge) and produces a lot of heat. My fermenters are usually about 5F above ambient temperatures. If things get too hot, it doesn't ruin the beer. It just means a bit more banana and fusels. Both abate with time. Hope this works. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:28:58 -0800 From: Jeff Hall <hallj at targen.com> Subject: homebrew happy hour Greetings and Salutations, My company is about to sponsor our second annual homebrew happyhour. Employees are invited to submit some homebrew for an afternoon of tasting and judging. Prizes are awarded to winners and losers, and everyone gets to sample some homebrew. It's a lot of fun, and it gives the homebrewers here a chance to show off, gets the occasional or former brewers brewing again, and gets some first time brewers started. Last years entries ranged from some decent kit beers to one entry made from melted snow to one carbonated using dry ice (yuck!). It's a great way to get people into homebrewing, and if they don't stick with it, it's a great way to get cheap slightly used equipment.. Any Social Activities Committee members out there take note! On a different note, I recently made a 3 gallon batch of porter. I did a partial mash using almost 2# 2 Row and some additional grains at 150 (plus or minus, I have an electric stove) degrees for 90 minutes. For no reason in particular, I put my bittering hops into the minimash at about halfway through. I finished the minimash, added extract etc. as usual. I just racked to a secondary, and the beer looked cloudier than the last time I did this recipe minus the early hops. I used Irish moss to clarify, and I'm not concerned about it yet. Any opinions about hopping during a partial mash? I think I was trying to imitate first wort hopping on the stove top. Jeff Hall, Seattle "Good. Tell him he's Wayne Gretzky." - -- Ted Green, Edmonton Oilers coach, when told that center Shaun Van Allen had suffered a concussion and didn't know who he was Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:19:38 -0000 From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: re: Old Ale Fetsival Gordon Strong wrote: >Does anyone know when the Old Ale Festival will be held this >year? I'm not talking about the Real Ale Festival in Chicago; I'm >interested in the one >held at the White Horse in London usually around Thanksgiving. Not sure when the festival is (I seem to remember it was late November/early December time last year). The White Horse has been closed for refurbishment recently, but AFAIK it will be going ahead, as I helped deliver a firkin from a US Brewery from Great British Beer Festival to the loving care of the White Horse cellar back in August. I'll post details to list when I know a firm date. Nigel Porter Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 12:53:01 -0600 From: C Epp <chuckepp at ukans.edu> Subject: first wort hopping (alone) Hi, all. Has anybody tried using first wort hopping alone in a pale ale - -- no additional bittering hops, no finishing hops, just the whole hop load (of noble hops) as first wort hops? I would expect a fair deal of bitterness, but also a clean, full hop character. Anybody have experience with this? Private responses are fine. Thanks, and happy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:15:00 +0500 From: "Curt Speaker" <SPEAKER at SAFETY-1.SAFETY.PSU.EDU> Subject: beer vs. wine making Just had to add my $0.02 on this: I have been having this discussion with several folks here in central PA regarding the increased interest in home winemaking versus homebrewing. I honestly think that winemaking ingredients have gotten significantly better in the past few years. The end result of this is that you can make pretty damn good wine at home now. It is no longer a couple cans of Welsh's grape juice, half-a-cake of Fleishmann's bread yeast and a couple pounds of sugar (just like homebrewing is no longer a can of Blue Ribbon syrup, a couple #s of sugar and the same Fleishmann's yeast). Wine kits contain better grape juice concentrate, better water treatment chemicals, better fining agents and [much] better yeast. With all of those items and a better knowledge of sanitation, the quality of your finished product should certainly improve. The argument to this (as a winemaking & homebrewing friend of mine pointed out) is that a novice brewer, with a bit of time and patience, can make beer that is just about as good as a commercial microbrew. A novice winemaker, on the other hand, cannot make wine as good as a small winery. Homemade wine is better, but still pales in comparison to commercial stuff. All of this, coupled with what is likely a higher mark-up on winemaking kits (yuppies have more $$ and will likely pay more for wine kits), and it is only natural that homebrew stores are catering more to the home winemakers. It would be interesting to hear from some homebrew store proprietors to see if this is true...anyone??? As I said, these are my opinions only. MYYV later Curt Curt Speaker Biosafety Officer Penn State University Environmental Health and Safety speaker at ehs.psu.edu http://www.ehs.psu.edu ^...^ (O_O) =(Y)= Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:28:17 GMT From: blades at airtime.co.uk (Liz Blades) Subject: Muntons Wheat Malt In HBD#3157 Paul Haaf wrote "Lately I've been purchasing Munton's Wheat LME in the 3 gal (33 lb) 'buckets'. The last batch that I bought was NOT wheat malt. I made two batches from it, both using 1/2 gal (5 1/2 lbs). It was either light or amber LME. When I complained about this to the homebrew store, they said that they are aware of the problem, but Munton's refuses to acknowledge the error." I have passed the message on to Muntons (email andy at muntons.com),and asked Paul to provide them with a batch #,oh and the name of the store would not be a bad idea. HTH Liz Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Nov 99 13:41:35 MST From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at netscape.net> Subject: plambic,sake, sanitation > From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com> > Subject: [p]Lambics - Autolysis & Retaining Microbes > > I recently brewed up my first ever lambic/plambic. And, have the > following > questions... > > 1) I've read that autolysis in a young, fermenting lambic is OK -> > preferable. > The idea being that the autolyzing yeast provide nutrients for all > the other > microfauna. Has that worked for others? Should I rack off the > yeast, or > let nature run its course? > Do what ever you want. but in the "traditional" process the beer stays in the same cask for a long time. > 2) Matt Arnold wrote about an approach for pitching a new batch of > lambic > into a used, uncleaned carboy from which he had just bottled. Any > comments > on that approach? Have you used it successfully? > You can do this also. At the same time you end up with a bunch of excess stuff in the carboys. In the past I have said it and I'll reiterate that I brew all my beers in the same equipment. I'll again stress the importance of keeping things clean and sanitary. You CANNOT sanitize dirty equipment. Be sure to scrub everything well. If you keep things clean you won't run itno problems. I've had to double my efforts since moving to CT, where it seems that any organic matter turns to mold within hours if left at room temp. I recommend the sanitation article at www.liddil.com for a review. One usually does not keg plambics. But if you do then just clean it when you are done. This requires usnscrewing all the fittings and poppets. A tooth brush wirks well for this. > From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> > Subject: Sanitizing my stir bar > > Can I sanitize my stir bar properly but just cleaning it and leaving > it in > a small jar of vodka? I suspect it would be in the vodka a couple > weeks at > a time, if not more. Anybody got any ideas how virulent pediococcus > and > such are when exposed to 50% ethanol solutions? Just trying to make > it simple. > nathan in madison, wi > How can you be in pharmacy and not know the answer? Oh that right you only have to count to 100 by fives and type the label straight. (major joke, I used to work for a pharmacist/pharmacologist). At any rate 70% ethanol is the most effective conc. for sanitizng with EtOH. I always scrub my stir bars with a toothbrush and automatic dishwasher detergent. Then after you rinse it thoroughly you can store it in 70% EtOH. This should keep the pedio at bay. > From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> > Subject: pLambic "disinfecting" > > At the risk of being proven wrong, I'll speak. Matt recommended that > we > can use a strong bleach solution in a nice long soak to avoid cross > contamination from pLambic into our other beers. I'll go out on a > limb and > say he's half right. The long soak part. I've recently re-opened > Fix's > Analysis of Brewing Techniques and I believe he mentioned that bleach > is > not very good for pediococcus. However, you could use your iodophor > or a > nice quaternary ammonium compound or whatever. Just don't expect the > > bleach to do the trick. Always open minded, open mouthed, and > willing to > be proven wrong... > And again I'll say, you must be sure the surface is CLEAN before sanitizing. This may mean using a brush but you have to get rid of all the organic material before you sanitize and expect it to be effective. > > I went nuts trying to find stuff on the web in Spanish (Yahoo > Espan~ol, > etc.) where I could find words not in my dictionary, like carboy, > racking, > etc. You might try http://babelfish.altavista.com/ So does anyone know a good website on sake' other than what has been mnetioned so far? Jim Liddil reply to jliddil at vms.arizona.edu www.liddil.com ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:01:29 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: nosey hops, acidic sparge, limits to growth Brewsters: Nathan Kanous asked me politely and privately what I meant by "adding hops at the nose": I had said in the HBD #3159 : "Rather than a hop tea added to the secondary, I routinely add hops at the nose for lagers." I said to him and to all curious HBDers: "Good Question! A brain fart, I guess or else an editorial error on my part. Should read "I routinely add some aroma hops at the end of the boil to improve the hop nose for lagers." - --------------------------------------------------------- Paul Kensler's pH dropped into the 4's at the end of his sparge and he asks for speculations on why. I can only think of two explanations pH meter drift due to battery or temperature but since he used pH strips, batteries do not explain it. Some strips are only useful at room temperature so maybe you should cool the sample first. I use a metal jigger or spoon to cool all my samples first. If these strips are those horrible brown strips that were ubiquitous at brew shops for years, throw them out! Get some real pH strips, from a chemical supply house, which are multicolored strips and read in 0.2 or 0.1 pH units. Small pH meters are pretty inexpensive and I don't know, but I'll bet not much more than these strips. I would not, as you suggest, add carbonate to adjust the sparge pH as this will likely dissolve tannins from the husks and other phenols and produce a rough tasting beer. Adding it to your wort could produce similar results in terms of taste. I'd do nothing, except try to understand it for future batches. - --------------------------------------------------------- I think Alan Meeeker misunderstood Kyle's question about how one limits the number of growth cycles of yeast. The answer is that yeast reach a certain concentration and level off in all cases at about the same value. By starting with a certain size starter you can limit the number of growth cycles the yeast have to go through to reach this number. Larger starter, fewer growth cycles. Ales typically have a smaller starter, since the by-products of the growth are the various sensory agents like esters, aldehydes and ketones which we expect in British Ales. Lagers, on the other hand are expected to be cleaner, so we start with a larger starter to limit the number of growth cycles. This larger starter is also good, since we typically ferment the lagers cooler for the same reason of cleaness in taste. This larger starter allows a faster fermentation. As Alan points out, poor quality starter in which the yeast do not have a good supply of sterols to begin with or lacking oxygen will mean a continual sharing of the sterols by mother and daughter to build new cell walls and membranes. This can eventually lead to poor yeast growth and even weird biochemical pathways which can lead to unwanted tastes. Likewise, too small a starter of even healthy yeast can lead to this lower level of sterols in the yeast in the anerobic fermentation of your beer with the same outcome of undesired tastes and perhaps a poor or incomplete fermentation. Solution? healthy yeast by using a starter which has been well oxygenated and grown in a wort with sufficient FAN by using a pure malt starter. Discard the starter beer and pitch enough yeast to meet the guidelines Kyle noted. As an aside, racking a new brew directly onto the primary yeast cake of a prior brew has been recommended from time to time and is perhaps better than starting with a small starter. I typically recover the yeast I get from the secondary. I rack just as, the primary fermentation finishes its rip-roaring. This produces a clean yeast, which I can preserve under distilled water after washing or use in the next brew. In the case of lagers, this seems to be about the right amount. Less can be used for ales. I always re-start any yeast for at least a few hours before I use it. For sure, racking an ale wort onto a complete yeast cake from a previous brew is the wrong way to go since you want some yeast growth for ales. With ale yeasts it is important that the racking to the secondary take place while the fermentation is still active to avoid segregation of powdery yeast from flocculent yeast. This is especially true with some of the London yeasts, which I understand may consist of both types of yeast. - -------------------------------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: 02 Nov 1999 14:56:47 -0700 From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com> Subject: Primary Seal, Vanilla Porter Two questions for the collective: I have a 7 gallon primary, one of those white plastic food storage bins. But in my last batch the fermentation lock never bubbled -- I think the seal between the bucket and the lid is bad. Is there a way to fix this, other than buying a new bucket? I'm also looking to add some vanilla flavor to a porter I'm making. I've heard that extract will impart a bad flavor, and that I should use whole beans. True? And how much vanilla bean (or extract) should I add for a 5 gallon batch of porter. I'm looking for a discernable hint of vanilla but nothing overpowering. Thanks all. Jeff Luck Salt Lake City, UT Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:08:11 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Translation URL - sorry! Re. the lexicon web site I posted in hbd 3159, I goofed by assuming there was a "www". Thanks to Randy for pointing it out. It's: http://eurodic.echo.lu i.e. no www. Sean Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:51:32 -0500 From: "Gary Clayton" <garyclayton at mindspring.com> Subject: TRUB XI Competition Results Results of the TRUB XI Homebrew Competition, 10/30/99 in Raleigh NC, can be found at http://trub11.home.mindspring.com. Congratulations to Best Of Show winner Jay Adams. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:59:46 -0800 From: "scott" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com> Subject: first pilsner Been brewing 10 gal. Hefe's with very good luck. Haven't done the water analysis yet, as we just bought our house and insufficient funds. Did install a charcoal filter, however. My first Pilsner. With the old adage, KISS, I set out on my project. 20 lbs of Vienna malt, 31/2 oz of domestic Saaz hops (boil/aroma) and irish moss. didn't think I needed a rice hull bed like with wheat. WRONG! My mash stuck bigtime as soon as I hit 140 deg. Live and learn. I ended up doing two decoctions. This was on the fly compromising to get my mash temperature up. Have never done one before, but was surprisingingly easy. Hope it doesn't make too dark of a beer. Munich lager yeast (all the brew store had). I had never done lager yeasts, and it was so exciting to watch it work, and work well, at 45-50 deg. temps. The smell is a little more wild than the clover/banana smells I am used to. Should I worry about diacetyl rest? I plan on letting this sit for 2-3 months at 35 deg. temps. Can I bottle with corn sugar? Will there be enough suspended yeast cells, or should I save some secondary trub for this? Thanks so much. Scott www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/3768/Brewery.html Return to table of contents
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