HOMEBREW Digest #3180 Sat 27 November 1999

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  #1-Ammonia vs. baking soda #2-Holy misinformation, Batman (ThomasM923)
  same jerk, different attitude (re BT) (Dick Dunn)
  Re: RIMS overheat fail-safe (The Holders)
  An elementary but important yeast question... ("Aaron Gallaway")
  Difco Bacto-Agar ("Dan Kiplinger")
  Brew Pubs In Perth ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  wyeast 1214 vs 1762 (Kevin TenBrink)
  Yes,yes, yes it's all true, Barley malt bread, Al (Dave Burley)
  Boilover prevention (Demonick)
  Reducing Beer: an OChem Question (Kevin Riutort)
  Re Water Treatment (JohnT6020)
  re: RIMS fail-safe (The Holders)
  Dave's Benzene Habit (Bob Sutton)
  Pete's Winter Brew (Clark)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 00:09:35 EST From: ThomasM923 at aol.com Subject: #1-Ammonia vs. baking soda #2-Holy misinformation, Batman #1- A. J. deLange questioned my choice of ammonia over baking soda for neutralizing acidic solutions. I have a number of reasons. They are as follows: 1) Add baking soda, watch solution foam up, wait for foam to subside. 2) Add baking soda, watch solution foam up, wait for foam to subside. 3) Add baking soda, watch solution foam up, wait for foam to subside. 4) Add baking soda, watch solution foam up, wait for foam to subside...;~) Ammonia, even the grocery store stuff, is very basic. It will neutralize an acidic solution very quickly, while baking soda in a solution is fairly neutral so it takes a lot more patience to arrive at the same result. And everybody has some some ammonia hanging around. It's there, under your sink, right next to the Drano and the Bon Ami. #2- Having said that, I have to admit that I should check out my claims - ---before--- I post to the HBD. I stated in my last post that once an acidic solution is neutralized with ammonia, it will turn a bluish color. Well, that is what happens with nitric acid, but I found that hydrochloric acid does not undergo a color change. Yours, somewhat humbled, Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Nov 99 22:28:05 MST (Thu) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: same jerk, different attitude (re BT) I apologize for my outburst about Brewing Techniques in HBD 3176. Regard- less of how strongly I felt and/or whether there was any justification for being angry, it was an unacceptable display of temper. By way of terse ex- planation (but *not* thereby attempting to defend my posting) I will say that once in a while, a problem in one part of one's life spills over into another part. Let me say that I now accept that the BT folks *are* trying to do The Right Thing. The emotion in my posting was out of line. I had some reasons for concern, which I will try to explain here. It was over two and a half months from when BT announced its shut-down and had offered subscribers compensation, to when people started asking, "Ummm, hey, I haven't heard anything...have you?" Yes, I realize that it takes time to shut down a business, and it is usually a tangled, complicated, gut-wrenching experience (all the more so if--as with BT--the people have a personal interest in the nature of the business). No, I would not expect a business to be wrapped up in under three months. But I *would* expect some communication during the process...if for no other reason than that if it gets quiet for an extended period of time, people start to think the worst. We heard that BT was going under; we heard about possibilities that it would be acquired, or part of it would go electronic, or whatever...and then...*nothing* for over two months and even then only in reply to a query. BT had an easy way to reach a lot of people to tell them what was going on, via the HBD. A simple "hey, we're working on it" or "we've hit a snag..." would have done wonders. I'm glad to see that some folks *are* getting their back issues. I'd read and heard from folks who weren't. I heard from someone who was entitled to eight but got two with no other explanation. But if the process is still under way, that's good, and I will believe that it's working. Virtually everybody who dealt with BT respected the magazine they put out. However, if you weren't close to the people involved, you couldn't judge anything about the business side of it. What I saw was that a good maga- zine went along for about six years (very respectable duration), but there were a couple of hiccups in publication, and the last issue was produced in full slick-color-cover style. This wasn't consistent with a magazine in a long slow decline, where you would have expected measures to reduce costs while maintaining content. But here I'm only expressing serious puzzlement. I'd be out of place to second-guess Mallery on what he was dealing with, and he owes us no explanation!...he's got enough to deal with. I just don't understand how the magazine keeps coming out until it hits a brick wall, instead of trying to ramp down and adapt. I watched the American Mead Association, and its publication _Inside_Mead_, fail. Now, it went in a very different way--its preceptor died in a car crash and her successor drained off all the money and vanished. But the consequences of that failure are that the mead-making community *still* doesn't have either an organization or a hard-copy publication, nearly four years after the demise of the AMA. I am [over]sensitive to the effect of a failing publication on the community it serves, and I am concerned that the demise of BT is going to have a serious adverse effect on homebrewing. BT offered its subscribers 3 options: take back issues, forgive the debt, or hold out for some refund. This set me on edge from the first day I saw it. Obviously the best deal is the back issues, but that's the least interesting to a charter subscriber--i.e., the person who supported them right from the start, when they were the biggest risk. Forgiving the debt is an act of charity, but charity and business don't mix well in this way. (I have business losses too, but I don't get to ask anybody else to help pay them. One wrong weather guess in '96 cost me $3000+ on a crop. So it's not that I couldn't afford $45 to BT; it's that I can't see why I have to pay for my own risk-losses *and* somebody else's as well.) I wonder if the "forgive the debt" option was worth, in $, what it may have cost, in good will. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:43:42 -0800 From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> Subject: Re: RIMS overheat fail-safe Jonathan asks about RIMS overheat failsafes. Most PID controllers have built in alarms. Depending on the location of your probe, you could use a high limit N.C. (Normally closed) to drive a secondary switching device. Run your control circuit in series through the secondary switching device, and then to the primary switching device. Ideally you would latch in the alarm condition, otherwise you would only oscillate the condition. I would think that having the probe in the wort stream on the chamber outflow, and also having the exit lower than the entrance should work. Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:25:24 PST From: "Aaron Gallaway" <baseball_junkie at hotmail.com> Subject: An elementary but important yeast question... Dear fellow beerians, Despite having subscribed and read avidly for the past 4 months, this is my first post. I am an Enlgish teacher in Japan and have been all-grain brewing for about a year now. I read voraciously and have learned nearly everything I know about brewing(which I have learned over the last 4 months of reading HBD is NOT very much) from the books and internet articles I have read. I have nothing but success with culturing Wyeast in Test tubes. I have settled for for steeping them up only one in 500 ml of wort in 100 ml flasks. I generally do two at the same time and have had very low lag times(never more than 8-12 hrs from pitching.) As I am a bit of a perfectionist I was hoping that someone could stoop down to my lowly brewing level and take a few minutes to explain in detail their procedure from Test tube to pitching, of stepping up their cultures. I am interested in starter wort recipes, sterility procedures, wort amounts, and length of time between step ups and so on. Thankyou very for time and efforts. Please feel free to mail me personally at baseball_junkie at hotmail.com Thanks for all your help everyone, and beery Christams and a hoppy holidays:) the man from Japan Aaron ______________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 06:16:58 -0500 From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com> Subject: Difco Bacto-Agar Question to the collective: I have some Difco Bacto-Agar that is from 1981. Is it worth using or should I trash it and buy some new agar. Also, I am using Difco "Bacto - Fluid Sabouraud Medium (Dehydrated)" as my cultivating medium for yeast. I have read that people are using plain-old DME. Is the FSM better (or worse)? Dan, half-way between Chicago and Difco Laboratories, Detroit MI Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:07:59 +1100 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at infoflex.com.au> Subject: Brew Pubs In Perth Darren Robey asks the question >I'm going to be in Perth in the next few weeks and was >wonderingif anyone >knew of any brew pubs or the like worth a visit. Darren, Try the "Sail and Anchor" in Fremantle. Peter Nolan is the head brewer there and a few of his brews are well worth trying. And he doesn't use a Valley Mill And he doesn't use a JS Mill either But he makes good beer anyway. Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 06:07:32 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin TenBrink <zzymurgist at yahoo.com> Subject: wyeast 1214 vs 1762 Greetings- I recently brewed a batch of beer using Belgian Abbey Ale yeast. My problem is in my notes I forgot to indicate which one it was. Are there specific fermentation characteristics or flavor components that I could look for in the fermenting beer to help identify which strain I used? Thanks for any help! Kevin Elkhart IN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:15:39 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Yes,yes, yes it's all true, Barley malt bread, Al Brewsters: I knew that! It's November 19 th, November 19th, November 19th... As James Jerome and others have indicated, I was just testing to see if HBDers were paying attention on the Odd Day comment. Or maybe it was a trypo. Naaaah. Thanks for all your e-mail! {8^) - ------------------------------------------ Keith Menfy asks if anyone has tried malted barley flour in bread making. Barley malt extract and malted barley is a common addition to bread, but only in small quantities. I would imagine if you made bread with pure malted barley flour as the only ingredient it wouldn't rise, as it has no gluten and since the enzymes would liquefy the barley starch, you would As did the Egyptians. Thank goodness! - ----------------------------------------- Alan is concerned about galvanic corrosion and wonders if he should unscrew the SS valve he has tapped into his Aluminum piece. I'd be more concerned about biological contamination, depending on where this ball valve is located and unscrew and clean and dry it. Threads and washers make a great hiding place for microbiologicals. I would guess this could be a glavanic problem as well, since they are dissimilar metals, at least theoretically, John W. probably actually knows the answer to this corrosion question. - ---------------------------------------- C. Moore resident Alaskan Maltster determines his moisture content by classical means of weighing and drying a sample of malt, adn asks for comments on his procedure. My first comment is that you should dry this sample at nearer boiling to avoid any decomposition. Secondly, I would compare a long ( say overnight) drying with your 90 minute one. I will bet 90 minutes is not enough. Perhaps more importantly, when I malt, I tie up some grain in a cheesecloth bag and weigh it. This goes through the entire process in this bag which is mixed with the rest of the barley and gets weighed periodically. Since you know the original weight, you can quickly and easily calculate water content. Fast and with no drying. You can even use multiple bags if you want to see dispersion of your results and to crosscheck your current technique. - --------------------------------------------- Regarding the inquiry as to AlK's silence. I had an e-mail chat with Al Korzonas the other day, inquiring into what was going on in his life besides changing diapers on his tripplets (sic). Briefly, his comment was that his kids were more work than either he or his wife ever imagined, but they wouldn't change their minds. Clearly, he has been nearly overwhelmed with start-up efforts, but I'm sure his load is easing. He hopes to begin brewing again in early December. Hope we hear from him around then. Keep on Brewin' Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:39:42 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Boilover prevention Like "Humphrey,Patrick" <patrick.humphrey at abbott.com> and his brewing stones, I have posted this in the past. Rip the plastic liners out of 5 or 6 used bottle caps and use them as boiling stones. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:46:12 -0500 From: Kevin Riutort <kevin at veng.com> Subject: Reducing Beer: an OChem Question In organic chemistry one learns that alcohols are readily oxidized into aldehydes, ketones and carboxylic acids (all things that give off flavors to beer). Aldehydes, and carboxylic acids can be reduced back into primary alcohols using a reducing agent such as NaBH4 (sodiumborohydride) or LiAlH4 (Lithiumaluminumhydride). Does anyone know of any research into "treating" a bad batch of beer with a reducing agent in an attempt fix off flavors (NB: I'm not suggesting that this is a substitute for good brewing technique, I'm just curious about the chemistry). I don't think that NaBH4 or LiAlH4 would be good things to injest but there are probably some other reducing agents/hydrogen nucleophiles that are not toxic. - -- *************************** Kevin Riutort Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:04:28 EST From: JohnT6020 at aol.com Subject: Re Water Treatment Flossmoor IL 99-11-26 at 1037 CST Mike asked how to treat water with Mn and Fe: << Help, my well water has Iron and Manganese. My few brewing books say these are both bad for brewing, but don't describe a way to clean them up. Anyone out there have a good reference or a specific remedy? Meanwhile, I'm brewing with jug water. >> I can vouch for the iron making bad tasting water and bum beer. Iron can be eliminated with Potassium Permanganate. Make a solution of this and keep it in a dropper bottle. It will be an intense purple. Add this drop by drop to your water to be treated until a faint pink color remains. The iron compound will precipitate. Let it settle and decant the clear water or filter to remove the precipitate. Good luck. 73, Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:35:07 -0800 From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> Subject: re: RIMS fail-safe My last post should have read: Run your *power* (not control) circuit in series through the secondary switching device, and then to the primary switching device. Secondary switching of the power circuit would be needed if the overheat is caused by the primary control failing to open. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:01:59 GMT From: Bob.Sutton at Fluor.com (Bob Sutton) Subject: Dave's Benzene Habit While benzene may not be immediately "life threatening and poisonous", you're ignoring the long-term risks. I too, used benzene and acrylonitrile to wash tools and clean out carburetors (ok - that dates me pretty well), and I'm still alive - YMMV - but I recognized the potential hazard, and reduced my exposure accordingly. Dave, it's not worth the risk... when you're gone who will be around to champion garbage pail fermentation and Clinit*st ;-) I'll bet you smoke too... hey... I've never seen anyone keel over from a drag... Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today PS: in any case benzene is not present in dry ice to any greater extent than it is in the air we breathe. >Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:32:47 -0500 >From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> >Subject: Benzene and public safety > >In my own experience, benzene is not toxic in the >sense I believe this word should be used. - that is >poisonous and life threatening. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 23:48:05 -0500 From: Clark <clark at capital.net> Subject: Pete's Winter Brew Hi List, Does anyone out there have an extract clone recipe for Pete's Winter Brew? It is an amber ale with raspberry and nutmeg. Very tasty and a beer that my wife enjoys drinking. TIA. Dave Clark Return to table of contents
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