---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  MaltMill and unmalted Wheat! (Robert Johnson)
  CO2 source around Salt Lake City area? (Brian Morgan)
  Michael Jackson World Beer Tour ("Richard")
  Bottle Fur (phil sides jr)
  Stop Pickin' on me! (Tony Barnsley)
  Re:Fermentap ("Mark Vernon")
  another momily shot to hxxx ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Alcohol Formula ("A. J. deLange")
  Gears/yeast for CAP (JGORMAN)
  aeration & O2 (Demonick)
  That Darn Bottle Fur (Richard Foote)
  Digital Temperature Controllers ("Stephen and Carolyn Ross")
  Re: Baker's Yeast ? (Jeff Renner)
  Aerating--O2 vs. Shaking -- Evolves to -- How do YOU shake it. ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Marga Mulino Mill, Mash hopping, bakers yeast, agar (Dave Burley)
  Response to "Wierd Starter and Brew" (Vance J Stringham)
  RE:  Bottle Fur (Vance J Stringham)
  RE: Activated Carbon/O2 (LaBorde, Ronald)
  7th Annual America's Finest City Homebrew Competition ("Peter Zien")
  temp controller ("Jensen,Craig")
  Kevins new Marga Mill... (Badger Roullett)
  obtaining yeast from homebrew (JPullum127)
  Sake Koji ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Think that these guys have any homebrewers on staff? ("David Kerr")
  Gas Permeability of Cork (Graham Sanders)
  GA House Bill #1383 ("Mark Nelson")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entry deadline for the Mayfare Homebrew Competition is 3/15/00 
* See http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ for more information

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:29:13 -0800
From: robert at bobbrews.com (Robert Johnson)
Subject: MaltMill and unmalted Wheat!

I have ground a lot of differant malts and grains with my MaltMill and I
figure the problem is that you used a battery powered drill. I have done
a lot of unmalted Wheat with mine in the 4 years I have had it. No
Problem.

I am using it with a 1/2 Drill running on variable speed depending on
the grain I am using and by the way it is a fixed mill and works fine.
Of course I did have the gear adapter put on.

Robert (bobbrews) Johnson



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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:40:25 -0700
From: Brian Morgan <brian.k.morgan at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: CO2 source around Salt Lake City area?

Hi -
   I'm getting ready to move from bottles to cornies - finally...
Anyway, can anyone recommend an inexpensive source for a CO2 tank -
small to medium size (10#?) around Salt Lake City or Ogden?  I already
have the regulator.
   Thanks!
      Brian



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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:50:59 -0800
From: "Richard" <seaotter at orland.net>
Subject: Michael Jackson World Beer Tour

Has anyone in the US joined the Michael Jackson World Beer Tour? Basically,
you pay about $35 a month for 12 import beers selected by Michael along with
his tasting notes & opinions. Plus some discounts & member discussions on
their web site (www.worldbeertour.com). I'm a little hesitant to try it
since they don't say which beers they are going to send, other than that
Michael selects them, they are seasonal and not otherwise readily available
in the US. This is not an ad and I have no affiliation, etc. Just was
curious if anyone else had taken the plunge and what your opinions were.

Rich



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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:45:59 -0500
From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net>
Subject: Bottle Fur

This it too strange.  I noticed bottle fur for the first time (in
hundreds of batches) today while checking to see if my last bottled
batch had carbonated yet.  I was looking for the tell-tale dregs on the
bottom of the bottle when I noticed fur clinging to one side of the
bottle.  I did however come up with two theories:

1.  It is transmitted via the HBD.....
or
2.  It is caused by static electricity (hear me out on this one)

It's winter in the northern hemisphere and in points too far south for
winter the humidity is likely at an all year low.  I monitor the
humidity in my brewery/cellar (I am not quite sure why) and in the last
10 days have recorded my first ever humidity of less than 5%
consistently.  I keep my cellared bottles in cardboard six pack holders
or case boxes which I am sure most if not all of us do.  When you remove
a bottle to look at it, you rub it along one or more sides of the
cardboard.  If you rub it on one, my theory suggests bottle fur on one
side of the bottle.  Likewise, if you rub it on more than one side, you
get fur on more than one side.

I did not leave it out to see if the fur went away (I drank it).  So
short of putting a bottle of homebrew in the dryer, how could we test
this?  If it involves a microwave, I'll let someone else attempt the
experiment :-)  But seriously, does anyone recall seeing bottle fur in
the summer or when your humidity was high?

Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH
- --
Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!




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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:40:28 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Stop Pickin' on me!

John Wilkinson Wrote

>The scurrilous Aleman (his choice of moniker, not mine) wrote:

Actually not the equally scurrilous Phil & Jill Yates is responsible

>At least in the US "a pint's a pound" if not the the whole 
>world round.

Ah, but in the UK, A Gallons is 10 lbs!

>I don't mean to pick on the Scurrilous Aleman 

Don't Then!

>>OH NO NOT AGAIN!!!!  beer doesn't make you fat, It just gives you big 
>>bones!

>It never gives me big bones.  Just the opposite.

Me neither, but I'm trying to work on it :>

From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>

>>I think it fair to say I am not the most popular of posters on 
>>the HBD. I seem to have the uncanny ability to upset almost anyone.

Hey You've not spoken to me since I asked if Burradoo was a sexual offence
:>

- --

Wassail!

The Scurrilous Aleman
Schwarzbad Lager Braueri, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Reply To Aleman At brewmaster Dot demon Dot co Dot uk
ICQ 46254361


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:53:54 -0600
From: "Mark Vernon" <vernonm at goportable.com>
Subject: Re:Fermentap

Doug wrote:
>Hello,
>  Has anybody tried a Fermentap?  This is a setup which allows conical
>fermentation through an inverted carboy.  Can one easily harvest yeast
>from the carboy using this setup?  Does this setup work well for racking
>without transferring trub?  Is this system prone to leaking, or other
>problems?  Do you fill the carboy in an inverted position, or do you
>manhandle and invert the carboy once it is full?
>
>  Thanks for any information
>   J. Doug Brown

Doug,
I have been using the Fermentap for almost 2 years now with great success.
Harvesting yeast is fairly easy, though the sides of a carboy are not quite
steep enough to get all of the yeast out. As far as trub I drain it off the
night before I transfer and then let the beer settle again and get very
clear transfers. I have NEVER had any of my 3 Fermentaps leak, and i use in
5, 6 and 6.5 gal carboys. For primary I fill them and then flip them over
when done. For the secondary I run a hose from both out ports, and use my
co2 tank to push the beer into the secondary by running a line to the
racking cane in the primary, all this to a secondary carboy that was full of
water and evacutated with co2, so no areation during transfer. If you have
any question, or want some diagrams/pictures let me know. As usual, YMMV
no affiliation with Fermentap yada yada yada

Mark Vernon






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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:20:31 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: another momily shot to hxxx

James said, 
"Call the local FDA agent in Seattle and tell them to give Wyeast a visit.
I bet theyed love to see if pathogens are being grown by them. :-)"
  I guess that means the old momily of "No known pathogens
exist in beer" is out the window. And now I wonder what the
non-yeast cell count is for YeastLabs, White's, and BrewTech is.
Is that info available?? 


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:54:53 +0000
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Alcohol Formula

I find that Balling's formulas for alcohol are quite accurate in
comparison with values obtained by distillation. In this method you
determine a factor, f, from the original gravity:

f  = .39661 + .0017091p + 1.0788e-5 p^2

where p is the original gravity in Plato and then multiply this by the
difference in original and final extract also in Plato to get the ABW.
You could probably use f = .4187 which s the value for 12P as an
approximation for the majority of beers you brew.

ABW = f(p - m) where m is the apparant final extract. To get ABV
multiply ABW by the specific gravity and divide by 0.79. As Specific
gravity is typicall 1.010 or so you can usually neglect this step.

The methods major inaccuracy is realized where yeast produce more or
less than the nominal 0.11 grams of yeast per 2 grams of sugar. This is
only an issue if the yeast mass is dramatically different from 0.11
grams. A doubling of the yeast quantity prduced would lead to at most a
10% error i.e.percent of percent, not percent ABW.



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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:41:00 -0500
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: Gears/yeast for CAP

I have a small 12V DC motor the I use on my mill.  There is a gear box on it
to reduce the rpms.  I keep stripping the nylon gears.  Does anyone have a
source for replacement gears?  I want to put in a more resilient one maybe
made out of  powdered metal or a cast iron.

Secondly, has anyone ever used Wyeast Bavarian (2206 I think) for a CAP?

What is the preferred adjunct?  Rice?  Corn?  Both?  I once read someplace
that you want about 15%?  What amount do others use?


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:11:05 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: aeration & O2

The recent aeration and O2 thread prompted me to dig out the
following previous posts from a couple luminaries:

I've snipped the irrelevant verbiage.

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com

FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or 
email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't 
call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only.

- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:37:32 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Wort Aeration

<snip>

 ...  Lengthy O2 feeds were used to make sure the saturation limit was
achieved. We are currently doing the dynamic tests, where O2 levels
are recorded as a function of time at various feed rates.

All tests were done with a Zahm and Nagel tank with a .2 micron
diffusing stone attached to the gas line. 

<snip>

In the static tests the saturation limit decreased with increasing
temperature. This was expected, and indeed this effect can be deduced
from theoretical considerations. A second effect that is not as well
known is that the saturation limit also decreases with wort gravity.
We reran each of the cases at least twice to check on the
reproducibility of the numbers, and so I am confident that the
measurements are accurate. If this is the case, then saturation values
for water are not a reliable guide for what actually occurs for real
beer wort.

       12.5 C                  15 C                20C

    DO        SG             DO     SG           DO     SG
   -----    -------         ----   -------      -----  -------
   8.1      1.030           7.5    1.030         6.5    1.030
   7.7      1.040           7.1    1.040         6.2    1.040
   6.9      1.060           6.3    1.060         5.6    1.060
   5.7      1.080           5.5    1.080         5.0    1.080

In the above DO stands for dissolved O2 levels in mg/l, while SG stands
for wort gravity.

Dissolved O2 can be hazardous to yeast once DO levels approaches the high
teens (in mg/l). Our results indicate that there is no way such levels
can be reached with beer wort no matter how much O2 is injected.

George Fix


- -----------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 19:51:25 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Aeration/Crabtree/Lime/Freezing Point

In a recent experiment I found the following levels of dissolved
oxygen (relative to saturation) in 2.5 gal of water in a 5 gallon
carboy (1) shaken VERY vigorously; (2) aerated with compressed air
bubbled through an airstone with gentle swirling and (3) pure oxygen
bubbled through an airstone with gentle swirling:

       Time             Shaking      Compressed Air      Oxygen
        1 minute         55%             40%               85%
        2                70              62               145
        3                75              75                -
        4                80              82
        5                82              90
        6                84              92
        8                87              98

D.O. level at time 0 was about 7% in all cases. Thus shaking the
carboy for a short period of time is not terribly effective and the
agitation must be quite violent. This is the reason the carboy was
only filled half full. It would be impossible to agitate it violently
enough if full. The key to getting oxygen to dissolve is tiny bubbles
dispersed throughout. That is why the air stone is so effective.

Note that the amount of O2 which will dissolve is a pretty strong
function of temperature with saturation (100%) being about 8 mg/l at
room temperature and close to 15 mg/l near freezing. Also note that it
is quite possible to acheive and maintain >100% when using a carboy.
If, in the course of oxygenation, the headspace becomes filled with
oxygen and is then sealed off with a fermentation lock the amount of
dissolved O2 will stay close to its value at the time the O2 was shut
off. In the experiment which lead to the numbers above the DO level
peaked at 14.2 mg/l (154% at 18.3C) and was found to be at 14.1 mg/l
(158% at 20.2C) 22 hours later. If this is a concern, after aeration
with pure oxygen, blow a stream of clean compressed air into the
carboy after clear the O2. The DO level will then equilibrate with the
O2 in the air and you will arrive at 100% fairly quickly.

Note also that O2 is somewhat less soluble in concentrated worts than in
water. For example, 20P wort equilibarates with the atmosphere at about 85%
of the water saturation level.

A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com




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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:13:40 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: That Darn Bottle Fur 



Glen A. Pannicke writes about bottle fur:

>This is the perfect explanation of of the pheomenon I witnessed however, my
>bottles were coated coated around the entire bottom 1/4 of the bottle and
>not to a single side.  The coating fell to the bottom when the bottles were
>agitated.  I have only witnessed this in one brew and now I remember the
>specifics:

>English style barley wine
>SG: 1.110
>FG: 1.022 (or therabouts)
>Primary fermentation using White Labs Irish Ale Yeast (WLP004)
>Secondary fermentation using a mixture of White Labs Irish and White Labs
>Burton Ale (WLP023)
>No fining agents used
>The beer endured much rousing over the long secondary fermentation
>Conditioned in brown bottles, closed case (dark) in my utility room (warmest
>room) for 2 weeks

>I believe this is definately a yeast phenomenon which may be attributed to a
>combination of the yeast strain and the environmental conditions.  Dave also
>mentions charge and that rings a bell about some yeasts which do cling to
>the glass walls when they settle out because of charge.  Dusty yeasts?!?  It
>would be interesting to see what others have observed.

I too have observed bottle fur in my barley wine that was just bottled.  

Y2K English style barley wine
SG: 1.100
FG: 1.025 (or therabouts)
Primary fermentation using YCKC British Ale
Secondary fermentation--roused existing yeast
No fining agents used
Bottled with 300ml approx. starter culture using YCKC British Ale and 1/2
c. corn sugar
Conditioned in brown bottles, closed case (dark) in my basement
for 4 weeks and counting


I think it may a simpler explanantion. Looking for a common thread here...

Some claim that fur forms only on one side; others say it forms on all sides.
Some were exposed to light; others were kept in the dark.
Some say electrical charges may be at play.

In my recent case and in Glen's case, they were both barley wines.  You
tend to pitch a bunch of yeast when brewing barley wine.  In fact, Glen
pitched yeast twice and I pitched a small starter culture when I primed and
bottled to ensure carbonation.  Could it just be the quantity of yeast
going into the bottles?  Could it be the yeast colonizing out onto the
glass surface into large, visable clumps?  Could it be this happens in our
fermenters as well?

I'm going to check my bottles tonight to look for fur location.


Rick Foote
Murrayville, GA
Whistle Pig Brewing Co. (aka my basement)







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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:35:58 -0600
From: "Stephen and Carolyn Ross" <rosses at sprint.ca>
Subject: Digital Temperature Controllers

Wayne asks about similar temperature controllers.

Advanced Brewing Systems  http://www.advancedbrew.com/future.html has one by
Ranco:

"Digital Electronic Temperature Controller by Ranco
 Controls cooling or heating from -30F to 220F. Adjustable temperature
differential is 1F to 30F"

I don't think it's traceable.  We sell it
 www.paddockwood.com/catalog_equipment.html ), but haven't used it yet,
although we are planning to use it for our in-house brewing system.

Hope this helps a bit....I'll gladly post more when we've actually used it
and can report more useful data!

______________________________________________
Stephen Ross

Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
www.paddockwood.com




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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:41:18 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Baker's Yeast ?

"Francois Zinserling" <francois at designtech.co.za> asks
>A few mentions have been made about using brewer's yeast for baking. What
>about the opposite ?
>Could I brew with baker's yeast ? Will it affect sanitization (sanity ??).
>
>Since bread gets baked at temperatures around and above 200 degrees C, the
>suppliers of bakers yeast may not be too concerned as to what could be
>lurking inside the packets. This may prove too much for a well sanitized
>brew.

Many years ago (upwards of 20), as I recall, someone wrote in Zymurgy that
they had good luck pitching fresh compressed baker's yeast cut from the
inside of a one pound block.  They reported clean ferments.  I suspect that
the large amount of yeast gets fermentation off to a fast enough start to
overcome other problems.  I also think that the producers of baker's yeast
way want to be pretty careful about contamination for their own security,
even thought it wouldn't make much difference, as you say, to the baker.
The problem with baker's yeast for brewing is that it is not very
flocculent.  Back in the bad old days, though, we couldn't get fresh
brewer's yeast, and it may not have been that bad compared to the dry
packet alternatives.  It may be that in South Africa you face a similar
problem.  Hope not.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:35:48 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Aerating--O2 vs. Shaking -- Evolves to -- How do YOU shake it.

Well I was pretty wet.  In fact I was dead wrong.  I was under the
impression that the amount of O2 that would dissolve in a liquid was a
function of the temperature of the liquid (only).  I have been corrected
(quite politely) that it also depends on the pressure of the O2 (duh).  I
better stick to something I know about (now what could that be?).

Conclusion:
With pure O2 the pressure is about 1 atmosphere while with air it is 20% of
that.  Thus you can get (potentially) almost 5 times as much O2 in the wort
using pure O2. (With all kinds of caveats on how long it takes, how well it
is distributed, and how long it takes to equilibrate down to 20% of an
atmosphere etc.)  


Thanks to Bill Frazier, Joseph Gibbens, Roger Ayotte, Lou Heavner, and AJ
for the correction.


Next Step:

As a result of some of the communications, and at the risk of blowing my
credibility another time, I ask the carboy shakers, "How often do you let
more air into the carboy".  In my experience it takes only a few shakes for
most of the air in the headspace to dissolve into the wort.  If you don't
replenish the air every few seconds, it is an uphill battle to try to get
anymore dissolved.

Also, if you let more air in every few seconds, you know when you are done
because you no longer hear the air rush in.  It seems that is a better
indication than "shake for 4 minutes".

Or am I in for a second bath?

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY





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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:13:16 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Marga Mulino Mill, Mash hopping, bakers yeast, agar

Brewsters:

Kevin Mueller ( German for "miller")
received a Marga Mulino Mill for
Christmas and asks for some pointers.
I suggest that you search the HBD
archives for all the milling discussions
( if you have a lifetime!). If  not, check
out the archives under Marga Mulino
for my discussions as well as others'.

I have used a Marga Mulino for some
years with complete satisfaction
( Yadda)  due to its adjustability.
I suggest you motorize it with your
drill motor after you are familiar with it,
but set it up so it will stop automatically
( mine pulls the plug as I have the motor 
just loosely resting and a stuck mill
rotates the drill body and pulls the plug)
if you get the inevitable junk in the malt
which can ruin any mill. I cut and filed a
bolt to fit into the mill in place of the
handle. I opened the hopper exit so that
I get full flow and added a gallon milk
bottle upside down to act as a larger
hopper.

Set your mill so only two rollers are
active. Mill your malt twice, once to
crack the grain and remove the husk,
second to mill it finer for better extraction.
This way you will then get the equivalent
of a four roll mill.  This will give better
extraction and better lautering than
you can get with a single milling
regardless of the setting. Believe it
or not this is faster than a single
milling at the narrower setting. My
settings of 0.080 in. and 0.060 in.
measured with a feeler guage from
the auto store will give you an
approximate idea. These settings
will have to be changed depending
on the malt.  

Other advantages of the Marga is
its ability to chip (which Marga calls
"flake")  rice for use as an adjunct
before the goods cooking and,  by
using all three rollers, you can also
make various flours for baking,
should you be so inclined.
- ---------------------------------
Brian Lundeen asks about mash
hopping in which the hops are added
to the mash instead of the wort to allow
the easy filtration of pelleted hops.

Never having tried it, I think the
problem with this technique is
that hop resins will not be extracted
by the rolling boiling of the wort nor the 
isomerization  take place which makes
them soluble and why we boil wort
and hops for an hour or more. Hop
tannins will likely react with the
proteins remaining in the spent grains.

Translation? Low bitterness
will be exhibited, to a large degree.

It may be a way to extract some hop
oils as in the act of pelleting, the oil glands
are broken, but these will be largely
adsorbed by the malt in my opinon.
Any hop oils which make it to the copper
will be steam distilled away during the boil
as is normally experienced with bittering
hops. Overall result - a poor use of hops.

In my opinion, it probably won't work very
well, but I'd like to see the results of a trial
in which bittering and hop oils were
measured quantitatively. I don't quite
understand what is meant by the same
results as FWH althuogh no quantitation 
has been doen to establish this.

 Especially, Id like to see quantitative 
analysis if the hops are added to a
decoction, where there is some
possiblity of isomerization. The loss
of tannins may be a plus, as I theorize
that this is the explanation for the
softness of FWH .
- --------------------------------
Francois Zinserling of South Africa
asks if it OK to use bakers yeast for
brewing. Lots of homebrew was made
with bakers yeast in this country during
our ill-conceived Prohibition era. Does
that make it good? Nope.

There's a reason brewers yeasts exist
(Thank Goodness!)  and that is because
a large part of the flavor profile and clarity
of a beer is due to the yeast used.

Try splitting a wort the next time in which
you use bakers yeast versus a brewers
yeast and see the difference.
- ---------------------------
Hmmm, Liz Blades claims that agar,
as part of her veggie diet, works 
to clarify beer and yet agar is a
carbohydrate ( is this correct?) Any
idea how this would work?

I imagine the agar carbohydrate sol to
be negatively charged and I believe
so is yeast. Do you see a change
in bitterness when you use agar as
you do with gelatin?

Liz, how does agar compare in
effectiveness to gelatin? 
- --------------------------

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:46:52 -0500
From: Vance J Stringham <vancenjeannie at juno.com>
Subject: Response to "Wierd Starter and Brew"

I,

	ran into a similar situation using the WYeast 1056 - American Ale.  I
double stepped my started to about .6 quart (567 ml).  I was brewing a
standard amber ale but was incorperating 2 lbs of honey so I wanted the
yeast to get a good foothold from the start.  Within 12 hrs I had a
rolling fermentation going.  By the next day the foam and krausen had
filled the 8 inches of head space in the 6.5 gal carboy and I had to put
on a blow hose.  Now, 10 days later, it is still bubbling away - once
about every 17 seconds out of the airlock.  Smell is still very nice but
this is a first for me with regards to length of initial fermentation. 
Admittedly I am still a newbie brewer - only my 6th batch so I have a ton
of learning to do.  Regardless, I hope to rack over to a secondary
fermentor within the next 3 days.

Vance J. Stringham 


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:03:51 -0500
From: Vance J Stringham <vancenjeannie at juno.com>
Subject: RE:  Bottle Fur

All,
	my brews have had that.  Since I am still a new brewing, 6 batches, I
just assumed this was normal.  I have tasted other homebrewer's beers and
aside from some obvious experience related differences, mine faired
pretty well.  

	I have bottled all my batches and in bottles varying in size from 8oz to
1 liter.  Each and everyone develped the white-powdery fur.  Once bottle
they were placed into a dark closet where the temperature remains +-2
degress ambient.  I have never used finings, gelatins, or irish moss and
do not mind the chill haze.  I have always assumed it was just the yeast
clinging to the sides of the bottle. 

	You want to talk about nasties?!  I have had one contamination of one
bottle in my as-of-yet short brewing career.  I took a bottle of red ale
over to my mentor's house and proudly handing the 16 oz concoction over. 
He held it up to the light to check clarity only to discover what
appeared to be a salamander clinging to the inside of the bottle.  He
cautiously popped the top and poured the brew into a glass.  Smelled
good, relativly clear, but was significantly more carbonated (but not a
gusher) than others I have tried.  He fished the amphibian looking thing
out of the bottle and gave the slimy grayish looking organism(s) a good
once over.  I don't know how but somehow that one bottle was infected
with some sort of fungus.  That is the only thing I can figure with this
one.  It was certainly a fungus of some sort.  I was brave enough to give
the brew a sip - tasted great!  The remaining was poured down the sink,
however.  Neither Rick or I were incinded to drink something this thing
had been growing in.  Sort of brings to mind the "eye of newt" recipe!

Vance J. Stringham, N8UGV


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:48:39 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Activated Carbon/O2

>From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>

>The trick with respect to brewing is to get the oxygen level up to about
>200% (actually, individual yeast strains have particular levels they are
>happiest with) and pitch enough yeast that they will consume the oxygen
>before it has time to escape to the air. With a carboy, sealing the neck
>with a lock keeps the PaO2 over the wort high for a long time. In a
>fermenter, the high volume to surface area ratio prevents rapid escape.
>If the yeast are plentiful enough they will consume the oxygen in an
>amazingly short time - half an hour in one experiment I did.

Which makes me wonder, if you feed filtered air into the starter continously
for 4 hours the O2 is replenished as the yeast use it up.  Would this not
keep the yeast happier??

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu
http://members.xoom.com/rlabor/



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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:19:38 -0800
From: "Peter Zien" <PZ.JDZINC at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 7th Annual America's Finest City Homebrew Competition


>Call For Entrants, Judges, and Stewards:
>>
>The 7th Annual America's Finest City Homebrew Competition in San
>Diego, Ca.  is less than 1 month away.     The contest is scheduled for
   Saturday, March 4, with some categories being judged on Friday,
   March 3rd.  The judging will take place at the Windemere clubhouse in
   La Jolla.  The entry window for shipping beers is February 14 thru
   February 25.   See www.softbrew.com/afchbc for complete rules,
   instructions, and the new 1999 style guidelines.
   Please ship entries to:
   AFCHBC
   c/o AleSmith Brewing Company
   9368 Cabot Drive
   San Diego, CA. 92126
>>
>Register your entries at our convenient on-line site:
www.softbrew.com/afchbc
   If you are a BJCP judge, or otherwise qualified, please register to judge
or
   steward at the same site.
>>
>As a show of appreciation, QUAFF board members have  brewed a
  Commemorative Beer that will be distributed to all participating judges,
>stewards, and staff.   We've chosen a special style (with an inventive
twist) to
  tempt you, so register now to judge/steward and save your bottle.
>>
>Thanks for helping us make America's Finest City Homebrew Competition one
> of California's premier homebrewing events!
>Peter Zien
>AFC2000 Organizer
>pz.jdzinc at worldnet.att.net
>>
>>
>



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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:50:51 -0800
From: "Jensen,Craig" <cjensen at toraycompam.com>
Subject: temp controller

Wayne asks:

"Any ideas on how to get Control Company to bump up the controller set
point into brewing temp range or know of a similar design with a brewing
friendly temp range?"

As far as Control Company, I don't have any answers, but I recently
purchased a nice digital temp controller from Williams Brewing that
perfect for brewing, and is versatile too.  It can be set for heating or
cooling, the temperature range is -20 to 200F, adjustable differential
(1 to 30F), and a submersible probe.  Check it out
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/ 


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:02:45 -0800
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: Kevins new Marga Mill...

From: kevin m mueller <kmmuellr at engin.umd.umich.edu>

> I was wondering if any of you have had experience with it, and could give
me 
> pointers on the best adjustments or modifications that I could/should
make.  
> Also, what factory setting gives the best crush.
> Its an Italian mill made by Marcato, called the Marga Mulino.

It just so happens that I have one of these, and it just so happens that I
asked a similar question a while back, and it also just so happens that I
gathered all that information together into a web page which you can find at
my brewing web page.... http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html 

I have found this mill to be a nice easy to modify mill for me.  It works
fine, and I made a nice drill adaptor for it to automate it.  It works for
me...  YMMV of course.

badger


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:06:54 EST
From: JPullum127 at aol.com
Subject: obtaining yeast from homebrew

i have some alt beers i made with wyeast 1338 euoropean ale yeast a few 
months ago. i would like to try reusing this yeast in a sweet stout next week 
since it has low attenuation and a nice malty taste. i have never tried 
reculturing from a bottle of beer. i have some 150 ml bottles that will take 
an airlock and stopper and could step up after a couple days to a larger 
volume. can anyone give me some practical advice on bottle culturing or would 
i be smarter to use some nottingham dry yeast i have on hand but which would 
result in a dryer beer than i want in a sweet stout. i especially could use 
an idea of how many grams of dry extract in 50-100ml of water for the initial 
mini starter.  thanks to all


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:40:08 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Sake Koji

Fellow Brewers,

I am attempting to brew a sake however, finding readily available koji is a
difficult task.  I probably could order Cold Mountain Rice Koji at an
exorbitant fee (plus shipping) but would rather not go that route.

Fred Eckhardt says under his section dedicated to koji: "There is a Chinese
product called meng or chiu (labeled "dry yeast" in some chinese markets).
This has the mold plus yeast and lactobacillus, whereas koji does not have
yeast.  These are small marble-sized balls (sold in packets of 2).  They are
used as both yeast and koji."

He further defines 'jui men' as "Chinese yeast balls with three types of
fungi described (under the definition of jiu-niang), plus a binder,  which
is rice and wheat flour and vegetable juice, alternately 'jiu ben' or 'jiu
bing'.

'Jiu-niang' is then defined as "Chinese koji, with three types of fungi:
saccharomyces type yeast, lactobacillus and an aspergillus type mold."

I was able to obtain yeast balls from my local oriental food market.  Sure
enough, they're a marble-sized, pressed compound and are packaged 2 per bag.
My wife is Chinese and can read the package.  She says that it's labeled as
yeast (something might be lost in the translation here) and that it's what
her mom uses to make a sweet, slightly fermented rice dish.  But she's not
sure about the actual composition (no ingredient list).

My questions:
Does anyone know EXACTLY what these balls may be?
Is it really jiu men, jiu ben or jiu bing?
Does it contain both yeast and mold?
How can I seperate out the mold from the yeast? (I have another, more
trusted source of sake yeast)
Has anyone made drinkable sake from these balls?  Keyword: drinkable...
Why do I bother on this seemingly impossible mission?  ;-)

Glen Pannicke



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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:20:12 -0500
From: "David Kerr" <dkerr at semc.org>
Subject: Think that these guys have any homebrewers on staff?

http://www.streetadvisor.com/Article/Article.asp?aid=1666



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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:54:46 +1000
From: Graham Sanders <GrahamS at bsa.qld.gov.au>
Subject: Gas Permeability of Cork


G'Day all

Yes I'm still on this Biere De Garde thing.  I will be doing an update
posting next week (hopfully).  Received some interesting E-mails thats worth
mentioning.

I want to explore all options, and one possibility mentioned was
oxygenation.  Now I'm not up on my gas dynamics, so the question to the
forum is.

In any bottle that is corked under pressure of CO2, does the properities of
cork allow the diffusion of O2 into the bottle?

Shout

Graham Sanders

 


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:29:31 -0500
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: GA House Bill #1383

Folks,

(Sorry for the slightly off-topic post - HB 1383 is to allow beers into the
state of Georgia (US) which are above 6%.)

HB 1383 passed the Regulated Beverages Committee today!!

I wanted to ask you for help in contacting as many representatives to
express your support.  Your representative's district numbers and phone
numbers can be found on the web at
http://www2.state.ga.us/Legis/1999_00/house/indd.htm (for the House of Reps)
and http://www2.state.ga.us/Legis/1999_00/senate/indd.htm (for the Senate).
I understand that there is a phone number that will give you the same info,
but I don't have it right now.

(If you're a Georgian, please call your representative ASAP - this bill
could be up for a floor vote as early as Wednesday next week.)

Mark Nelson




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