---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  advice on some new grains... (darrell.leavitt)
  Peat smoked porter (Ted McIrvine)
  Misc. (Jeff Lutes)
  Secondaries and Weizen... (Cave)
  hp and pulley for motorized mill query (scott)
  self-priming pumps (Ray Kruse)
  Burnt Liquor (OSULLS)
  Competition Announcement - Call for Judges & Stewards ("John Stegenga")
  Foam stopper followup (Pat Babcock)
  Trials & errors of a beginner ("Wayne or Cathy Love")
  Taste threshold for lactic acid? ("lee preimesberger")


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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:55:13 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: advice on some new grains...

I just picked up a bag of Torrefied Barley Flakes as well as a bag of
Roasted Brown Rice Flakes.  I am assuming that the barley flakes can be
used much like wheat flakes...ie a pound or so per 5 gallon batch...and that
this may contribute to head retention (the literature from G+P [Ontario]
states that the head will have smaller bubbles than torrified wheat...
But I am uncertain as to the rice.  I am going to experiment with about
up to a max of 1/3 of the grain bill with the rice...to try to make some
lighter brews/....Does anyone have experience with either ot these?  I am
especially in need of advice re the rice...
Thankyou in advance...and thanks to Dave and others who maintain this
digest!
 ..Darrell
<Plattsburgh, NY>


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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:44:46 -0800
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Peat smoked porter

A few months ago, I had an off-list discussion in which Jeff McNally
brought to my attention this useful information:

> Peated malt is rated in parts per million of phenol.  The light is 4-6ppm and
> the heavy is 5-12 ppm.  The light is a little less variable in its ppm and
> thus would be more consistent from batch to batch.
> 
>   This was posted to the HBD on Sun, 6 Oct 96 by Don Van Valkenburg.
 
I've experimented actively with these malts before and after, and in a
malty brew 2 oz of light-smoked peat malt will give it a "what is that?"
flavor, and 4 oz. will be noticeable without being overwhelming.  I've
had wildly varying results with greater amounts of the heavily-smoked
malt and discontinued using it.

Peat-smoked malt has been controversial in this forum.  Just as some of
us believe that corn should not be used in beer-making, there is another
contingent that believes that neither peat in general nor phenols in
particular belong in beer.  But hey, I like the peat flavor.

Cheers
Ted in NY

> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:01:12 -0800
> From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
> Subject: re: peat smoked porter
> 
> Pete,
> 
> >I need a bit of recipe help.  I purchased 1 lb of peaked smoked grain from
> >Brewers Resource a while back.  Just tried the smoked porter at the VT Pub
> >and Brewery in burlington.  It was quite good with a subtle smoked flavor
> >that I thought was interested and my SO hated.  I would like to get a flavor
> >similar. a smell of smoke and taste but not overwelming.
> 
> What brought you to my neck of the woods?
> 
> >Looking through past digests I have seen mention of about a 1/2 lb in a 5
> >gallon batch.  Will this be too overwelming?  Any experiences are gladly
> >accepted.
> 
> I brewed a smoked sweet stout that took 3rd place in the Green Mountain
> Mashers competition last year.  I used 1/4 lb of peated malt and there
> was a good smoky flavor.  This fall a brewed a smoked porter and used
> 1/2 lb because I wanted some intense smoke flavor but barely got any.
> 
> My notes indicate that I crushed the stout grain the day before brewing
> (I don't have a mill so I use the one at the store) and I crushed the
> grain for the porter about 6 days before brewing.  In fact, I recall that
> by the time I brewed my porter it was hard to even smell the smokiness
> of the grains (as compared to a fresh crush).  IMO, for fresh crushed
> peated grains, a little goes a long way.  I will use small amount of
> fresh crushed peated grains from now on.  Also, IMO, it's better
> to underestimate and use more grain the next batch than to use too
> much the first time and have something you don't enjoy drinking.
> 
> John Schnupp, N3CNL
> Dirty Laundry Brewery (temporarily closed)
> Georgia, VT
> 95 XLH 1200
> 
- -- 
Dr. Ted McIrvine     McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com
College of Staten Island/CUNY

"Music is the hidden arithmetical exercise of a mind unconscious that is
calculating."  
Gottfried Leibniz, quoted in Lorenz Mizler's Musikalische Bibliothek


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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:52:45 -0600
From: Jeff Lutes <jlutes at osprey.net>
Subject: Misc.

Firstly, let me apologize for my comment about the spam that showed up.  It
was definitely not my intention to offend at all.  In fact, the meaning
behind my message seems to have been misconstrued.  What I actually meant
was that I was surprised that more of such junk doesn't show up on a
regular basis.  Hats off to you guys for keeping this place as clean as it
has been! My humble apologies for any aggravation or frustration I caused.


Kudos Pete!


Gemus Brauen Haus

3.86394 S, 12.46223 W Rennerian




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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:34:27 -0800
From: Cave <cave at psc.org>
Subject: Secondaries and Weizen...

	George de Piro writes that secondaries won't improve a weizen.  I don't 
agree.  There are three good reasons for a secondary for a Weizen.  The 
first is to drop excessive yeast prior to bottling as this will reduce the 
consequences of autolysis in a bottle conditioned beer--racking usually 
facilitates yeast dropping out.  The second is, in conjunction with aging 
and cold conditioning, you get a brighter and more stable product. 
 Finally, if you are bottle conditioning with a lager yeast, it's best to 
minimize the amount of ale yeast in the beer, just in case you have a 
"funky happening going on" between the two yeast strains.  I believe Eric 
Warnier covers some of this in his book.  Presumably one should be able to 
minimize O2 pickup in a beer during racking if there is sufficient 
dissolved CO2 "fobbing" out of the beer to shield the process.

					Jim Cave



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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:04:15 -0800
From: scott at wilderglass.com
Subject: hp and pulley for motorized mill query

Hellow fellow Brewsters.......

I have been doing all grain batches for a while now and have been having a
good time at it.  It's now time to tinker with something--I want to motorize
my roller mill.

My query to the group is what horsepower motor?  What diameter pulleys on
the motor and roller shaft respectively?

Thanks for help to one and all!

Scott in Auburn, California


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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:58:49 -0500
From: Ray Kruse <rkruse at krusecontrols.com>
Subject: self-priming pumps

I had made a previous request for information that anyone might have
about self-priming pumps.  I got some public responses here on the HBD,
and a few private responses.  I'd like to thank everyone who responded,
and respond here to all who requested follow-up information.

First, I did realize that self-priming pumps used to lift boiling or
near boiling liquids could/would cause cavitation problems.  What I was
hoping for was information on a pump that could be used for gravity fed
suction of boiling liquids, but could lift cooler products (like chilled
wort or beer).  The results of my research are that such a pump does not
exist at prices which a home brewer can afford.

However, I have found and tried a small pneumatic pump that satisfies my
needs for self-priming pumping of chilled wort and beer.

Bill Stewart of Moving Brews (no affiliation, satisfied customer)
emailed me privately about a new product that MB was going to handle.
After discussing it with him, I decided to purchase one and see what it
would do.  Here's the results:

The Flowjet pump is gas powered (CO2, N2, Air), about the size of a
softball, food grade, appears to be all plastic (no exposed or visible
metal parts), can lift 15' of liquid and discharge 100' of head.  Being
a diaphragm pump, it has to potential to move a bit, so the
recommendation is to physically mount it on a vertical surface.

I built an inverted 'tee' from a piece of 2x6 that I had around the
house, mounted the pump, and decided that I could do an initial test
pump and sanitize at the same time.  I filled a 7 gal fermenter with
some Clorox (tm) and water, plumbed everything up, connected the gas
line (CO2 in this case), set the regulator to 30 psi, and cracked the
ball shutoff valve.  The pump purged the air from the lines and started
pumping a nice, steady stream of liquid.  Just to see how much the pump
could put out at 30 psi (it's rated up to 120), I opened the shutoff
valve and immediately blew the hose fitting out of the pump.  Only about
a half-gallon of water ended up on the floor before I got it stopped.
(It turns out that the little paddle thingie that I had to move out of
the way in order to get the mounting screws into the 2x6 were actually
containment clips for the fittings.  Live and learn.)

Yesterday I pumped 10 gallons of cold pilsner from primary to
secondary.  Things were never easier.  Got everything pumped out of the
primary, right down to the dregs and never had to lift anything heavier
that the bucket of sanitizing solution.

As an added point, I can agree with all the positive statements that
I've read here about Moving Brews.  Nice people, quite knowledgeable,
informative and responsive.

Ray Kruse
Glen Burnie, PRMd
rkruse at bigfoot.com





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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:11:09 +0000
From: OSULLS at uk.ibm.com
Subject: Burnt Liquor



I have used an Elecrtrim Brewbin for about 10 years for all grain mash and
boils. It is an elecric kettle element in the bottom of a plastic brewbin,
on the outsdise of the bin clamps a sensitive thermostat which switches
power off/on to the kettle element. I have used Dave Line's methods of
mashing(NON STEPPED)  IE.  from a Grain/Liqour strike heat of 60/C whilst
continually stirring the grist, raise the temp to 66/C then leave to mash
at this temp until starch end point.
I have never had any problem with the liquour burning on the element with
this method.
Having recently read about protien rests, and stepped mashing methods I
decided to give it a try.
Strike heat at 54/C with 7Lbs Grain so it settled out at 50/C. Left this
for 30 mins.
When I went to raise the temp to 65/C for the next step(by raising the
thermostat setting) the kettle element started to audibly bubble & burn the
liquor(within 10 seconds), and boy did it stink!!. I quickly switched off,
transferred the mix to another bucket while I inspected the element, which
was blackened with burnt liquor. I suspected the element was at fault so I
put in a spare I have, but the same thing happened again within 10 seconds.
I eventually dumped the batch and started again.
Since I have never had any problem with burning liquour before, is it
something that is being created( Protiens/nutrients?) during the protien
rest period that is burning on the element???
Anyone had similar problems????????


Sean O'Sullivan

Swansea UK.





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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:23:16 -0500
From: "John Stegenga" <bigjohns at mindspring.com>
Subject: Competition Announcement - Call for Judges & Stewards

Excuse the intrusion folks, but we thought you and your club members might
like this information:

The Covert Hops Society Proudly Presents:
Peach State
Brew-off 2000!
The 7th annual incarnation of the greatest home brewing competition in the
southeast!

May 6th, 2000
10am -  5pm at:
Black Bear Brewing Co.
981 Ashby Street,
Atlanta GA, 30318

Featuring FABULOUS PRIZES!
*	Every First Place beer wins a vial of White Labs Yeast
*	50lb of grain for the club with the most points - from Briess
* 	SPECIAL FIRST TIMERS PRIZE! - $25.00 worth of brewing supplies!
*	Prizes for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the Best of Show round!
*	All ribbon winners entered into a drawing for prizes including a 40qt
Polar Ware kettle with false bottom, $50.00 certificate from Crosby and
Baker, and 4 drawings for
8oz (each draw) of Hops!

Please visit our website: www.coverthops.com for entry forms and a complete
list of prizes and sponsors!  Not on the net yet?  Call Marlon Hurst,
competition organizer, at 770-761-9448

PS:  CALLING ALL JUDGES AND STEWARDS!  Please contact Marlon, or E-Mail
COVERTHOPS at YAHOO.COM







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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:32:48 -0500
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Foam stopper followup

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Well, it's been two feedings under the foam stopper for the second flask.  
Same yeast from the same culture. And they're both acting pretty much the
same, and still different from the remaining one under an airlock. Nice,
dense kraeusen of longer duration than that under the airlock. Still, to
George's comment regarding the ability to "shift" the performance of the
yeast, the original one from under the foam stopper STILL has a longer
lasting kraeusen than its twin. I wonder if the new one will catch up to
it eventually?

Not very scientific, but interesting nonetheless...


 -
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock/
"I'm certainly no god..."




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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:20:31 -0400
From: "Wayne or Cathy Love" <lovews at auracom.com>
Subject: Trials & errors of a beginner

I've been lurking on the sidelines for the past several weeks and have been
really enjoying the various postings including the "friendly bantering". As
some one fairly new to homebrewing and one who still has not taken the plunge
to all grain brewing I do find a lot of the post somewhat over my head, but
never the less has gleaned a fair amount of useful information. Some of this
information could be enhanced if I knew what all the abbreviations and
acronyms stood for. Although these appear to be common knowledge to most of
the regular posters I'm sure I am not alone with some of the other newcomers
to this pastime who would appreciate if some kind soul could take the time to
prepare a list of the most often used abbrev. and acronyms and what they stood
for.

For the past five or six batches,(5 gal.) I've been using a fairly basic
recipe:
     4 lb         unhopped amber malt extract
     2 lb         dry malt extract
     1/2 lb      crystal malt ( Steeped in a bag for approx 10 to 15 min, till
the wort reaches                       near boil)
     1 1/2 oz  fuggle hops for bitter
     1/2 oz      fuggles for flavor and aroma
     1/2 oz      fuggles in a hop bag for dry hopping in the keg
      1 pkg      wyeast smack pac 1056 american ale (2 stepped to 3 liters)

I cool my wort to pitching temp (72 F)using a wort chiller before pitching and
aerate using an aquarium pump, air filter and airstone. I ferment in a glass
carboy submersed in a picnic cooler filled with water. I keep the water temp
at 64 f using an aquarium heater with good activity starting within 5 to 6
hours. Through out this I've been fairly anal about sanitation, using tsp to
wash all items and idaphor to sanitize.

1)   The problem is that twice now I've had a batch that has an almost musty
unpleasant after taste. In both cases, I believe the problem occurred in
batches where I re-used my yeast cake from the primary fermentor by just
pouring the next batch of cooled wort right on top of the cake after siphoning
the original wort to the secondary. I usually transfer to the secondary after
7 to 9 days.

2)  This brings up another question. Is there a standard set of terminology
used to describe off taste?

3)   How long and at what temperature can I keep my ale in the secondary
fermentor before I could run into problems?

4)  How long and at what temp and under what pressure can I keep ale in my
corny kegs?

5)  I need to purchase a new stock pot. Has anybody had any problems using
aluminum instead of stainless steel? For about half the cost I can buy a much
thicker and sturdier aluminum one.

Well I hope that I haven't been to long winded and as my glass is empty I must
move on.

thanks
wayne love



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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:55:14 -0600
From: "lee preimesberger" <lp at neosoft.com>
Subject: Taste threshold for lactic acid?


	I just bottled my first batch where I tried to treat my water with lactic
acid (my water is loaded with carbonates and comes out of the tap at > 8
pH).  I ended up using what seemed to be an obscene amount of it considering
it's strength ( ~ 1 teaspoon of 88% solution for a mash of ~ 11 lbs pale
malt).  From the bit I snagged from the bottling bucket, it sort of seemed
to have a weird taste, I think.  I might be nuts, though.  :-)  So, for the
brewing collective...

	1) How much of this stuff can you dump into the mash without it being
detectable or killing all your friends or family members?
	2) How much do people who know what they're doing normally use of this
stuff?  :-)


	lp



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