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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  need substitue for nonexistant malt (JEEPSRUS)
  Various replies (John DeCarlo)
  Yeast starters, how are they made ? (albano)
  UPDATE: Hard Cider Effort (Michael Berry)
  Steel kettles (olson)
  Cranbeery Ale update (Tim Phillips)
  Glass grenades (sounds like a terrorist weapon) ("Sushi's fine -- as long as it's properly cooked.")
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #326 (December 19, 1989) (Ed Falk)
  garlic recipes (UNLV Student ACM Chapter)
  Yet more discussion of glass vs. plastic carboys (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>


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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 89 14:59 PST
From: JEEPSRUS <ROBERTN%FM1 at sc.intel.com>
Subject: need substitue for nonexistant malt



Hello out there in beer net land! I have a couple of questions
which may prove to be unanswerable, concerning an old family
brewing recipe. Any help y'all might come up with would be
deeply appreciated!

My grandfather used to homebrew and sell beer in the late 1920's
and early 1930's. He told me his recipe, and I'd like to try it,
but I don't know what malt or yeast I should use.

My first problem is that he used Pabst Blue Ribbon malt. It is my
understanding that that malt has not been available for the last
ten years or so. Is this true? If Pabst is not available, does
anyone know of a malt which is similar? I realize it is difficult
to compare any malt to something that hasn't been around for ten
years, but it's worth a try!

As for yeast, I'm not sure what would be proper to use.
His 12 gallon recipe used about 5 pounds of corn sugar, and 3 pounds
of white sugar. What kind of yeast would work in these conditions?

If I can find a usable malt, I'll be making 5 gallon batches. 

Thanx in advance for any and all information, and have a real nice day!!!

Robert Nielsen

robertn%fm1 at sc.intel.com


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Date: Tuesday, 19 Dec 1989 08:49:37 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Various replies

>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 89 14:25:34 EST
>From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
>Subject: Taking homebrew into Canada, Slow starting yeast
>
>I remember seeing this question a little while ago, but I don't
>remember what transpired, so here it is again.  I'm going home
>to Montreal this week for the holidays, and I'd like to take
>some of my hombrew with me for my mom to sample.  What are the
>rules and regulations in effect?  Do they differ from the
>regular beer rules (1 case)?  Thanks.

Well, I took some homebrew with me on a recent trip to Ottawa.  I
just told the guy I had two six packs of beer with me--didn't say
anything about homebrew, so I don't know if they have special
rules that I violated.

>On another topic, I started my latest batch this week-end, and
>instead of "pitching" the yeast, this time I decided to "start"
>it first in a cup of warm water.  Well, it's been two days, and
>still no sign of life...

I am unclear as to what happened here.  When I rehydrate dried
yeast, it goes into roughly 100 degree Fahrenheit water.  Within
a few minutes, you see some activity as the yeast comes to life.
I have heard that if you smell anything untoward at this point,
throw the yeast away and try another packet, though it hasn't
happened to me.  Then you can pitch this into the wort at the
proper temperature.

So, if you didn't see any activity in the warm water, you
wouldn't be very likely to see anything in the wort, IMHO.


>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 89 19:30:20 CDT
>From: "Lance "I Don't Exist" Smith" <lsmith at umn-cs.cs.umn.edu>
>Subject: Kettles and dangerous carboys

>Brew Kettles: I presently use the standard enamel-steel canning
>kettle, but have been looking to move up to stainless.  A store
>in the local mall (one of the dales for you Prairie Home
>Companion fans) has 5-gal stainless kettles on sale for about
>$35.  It's fairly lightweight stainless, but it follows the
>standard cylinder with flat top design.  I think the store is
>called "Letchers" or some such thing in case they're a chain.
>So is that a good deal?

It sounds like a *great* deal to me.  I got a recent homebrewing
catalog that listed a 23 quart (5 3/4 gallons) stainless steel
kettle for $135 on sale.  Personally, I would prefer a >5 gal
kettle so that there is room to put in 5 gallons and boil it.


>From: Marty Albini <hplabs!hpsdl39!martya>
>Subject: predicting FG
>
>        A few issues back I commented on some beer of mine that
>was taking too long to ferment out.  The question was raised:
>how do you know when it's finished?  How low the gravity will
>get?  My usual method is to look there at the end of the recipe
>where it says "FG=" and use the author's experience.

The only method I have ever used is when the SG doesn't change
for three days.  Doesn't matter if it is still bubbling or
whatever.  After all, there are so many factors
involved--temperature, yeast, ingredients, etc.

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 89 08:36:16 EST 
From: albano at APOLLO.HP.COM
Subject: Yeast starters, how are they made ?

I have been using Wyeast liquid yeast for a while now (about 5 batches) and have 
had good result. I have noticed that fermentation is slow in starting, 24 to
36 hours. Recently I read in Zumurgy about the possibility of bacterial
infection due to the slow start of fermentation. A recommended way to speed
up fermentation is through the use of yeast starters. Can anyone share with
me some information as to how to create a yeast starter and the best ways 
to use them ?

Dan Albano

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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 89 08:32:50 mst
From: Michael Berry <mcb at hpgrbd>
Subject: UPDATE: Hard Cider Effort


A brief update re my attempt to make hard cider.  I boiled almost 4 gallons
of "Tree-Top" cider (it says it is made from concentrate) with a teaspoon
of crushed cloves and 1t of cinnimon (sp?).  Most of the hints that I got
from this newsletter (thanks to one and all!) implied to add about a pound
of dextrose (cane) sugar to get the SG to 1.080.  Well, I added about that
much (a LOT!) and sure enough the SG went to 1.090!!!  Well, that is a
potential alcohol of ~12% if it does indeed get to 1.0 so...

I also used pre-started champagne yeast.  It took off overnight and is still
going strong some 5 days later.  I'll rack it before Xmas.

Q:  I am considering adding ~1 lb of malto-dexterines to add mouth weight and
    sweetness before bottling as I have heard this stuff can come out quite
    dry.  Any comments on this "brave" experiment?  I would like to retain
    some of the cider'y attributes.

Michael Berry   ARPA:mcb%hpgrla at hplabs.HP.COM   UUCP:hplabs!hpgrla!mcb

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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 89 11:14:29 EST
From: olson at antares.cs.Virginia.EDU
Subject: Steel kettles



Lance "He Doesn't Exist" Smith writes:

>have been looking to move up to stainless. A store in the local mall (one
>of the dales for you Prairie Home Companion fans) has 5-gal stainless
>kettles on sale for about $35. It's fairly lightweight stainless, but
>it follows the standard cylinder with flat top design. I think the
>store is called "Letchers" or some such thing in case they're a chain.
>So is that a good deal?

That's LechMERE, boy, LechMERE.  You wanna get yersef sued? :-)

I use a 4-gal that I bought there(*) two years ago -- seems to me I paid
a lot less, like $16 or $20.  Works just fine for my 2-gallon extract
boils.  The quality is fine, though it is light as you say and does show
hot spots -- extract poured in with the fire on high sometimes scorches a
bit.  Cleans up nicely though.  As these mass market chains go, L. seems
to be pretty good.  Now if only they'd stock a 28-quart version...

As to price, $35 seems high, though as I remember the price did rise very
fast with increasing size.  But it *was* a while ago that I bought.

- --Tom Olson

(*) There being the store in Rochester, NY.






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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 89 07:48:22 PST
From: tcp at esl.ESL.COM (Tim Phillips)
Subject: Cranbeery Ale update

I wanted to give you an update on my cranberry beer that I brewed
earlier this month.  I posted a question of what to do after primary
fermentation had not begun after three days.  I combined advice from
a number of people and re-pitched the yeast--only this time I used
champagne yeast.  I figured perhaps the what-nots in cranberries had
moved the brew out of the ale yeast comfort zone, and maybe champagne
yeast had a better chance.

Well, sure enough, fermentation took off and everything went fine
from there on.  I wanted to leave the stuff in the secondary longer
and also have more time to age in the bottles, but alas, the Christ-
mas season is upon us.  So we opened the first bottles last Friday.

IT'S DRINKABLE!  I was so happy!  Not to say that this is anywhere
near being the best beer that I have ever had, but the beautiful
red color and mixture of cranberry, champagne, and beer tastes (in
that order) together make wonderful conversation pieces.  A perfect
treat for the holidays.
 
In case you're interested, here is a record of my procedure.  This
reflects what actually took place, so make your own mods as required:

     1) Use Papazian's Cherries in the Snow recipe, substituting
        6 lbs of cranberries for the 10 lbs of sour cherries.
        (Have fun crushing all those cranberries!  They squirt
        and bounce all over the place!  Get friends to help...)
     2) Use chilled water to dilute, bringing temperature right to
        68F (I got lucky), and immediately pitch with rehydrated
        ale yeast.  Promptly forget what the OG was.  Oh, well.
     3) Wait three days for nothing to happen.
     4) Panic (in a relaxed way, of course):  post question to
        HBD, then add champagne yeast (dry, since you're panicked).
     5) Relax a day later as fermentation takes off.
     6) Wait five days, then skim off cranberries with a sanitized
        strainer.  Put siphon tube *inside* your hops bag, then
        into the primary, and transfer to the secondary (this works
        *great* at keeping out unwanted gook from the bottom of
        the primary).
     7) Bottle after a week in the secondary, using 3/4 cup corn
        sugar.  Promptly forget what FG was.  Oh, well.
     8) Unveil your cranbeery ale two weeks later.  Enjoy!  (Best
        served well-chilled to the open-minded.)

Like I said, time in the secondary and in the bottles should probably
be longer.  The beer is actually showing some signs of clearing, but
looks like it would take at least a couple of months.  The cranberry
taste is quite dominating:  I might try just 2 or 3 lbs in the future
and shoot for more of a hint rather than a blast.

Thanks for all your help, guys!

Timothy Phillips
tcp at esl.ESL.COM




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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 89 11:12 CST
From: "Sushi's fine -- as long as it's properly cooked."
Subject: Glass grenades (sounds like a terrorist weapon)

Dear Homebrewers:

In the last digest, someone asked about finding sarsaparilla.  Try
looking in a "Natural Foods" or Health food store.  I don't think it is
sold for human consumption.

If one bottles too soon, one gets glass grenades.  What happens if one
bottles too late?  

- Ted
- ---
"All roads lead to Amber"  -- Random 
ptgarvin at aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu / ptgarvin at uokmax.UUCP | Eris loves you!
in the Society: Padraig Cosfhota o Ulad / Barony of Namron, Ansteorra
Disclaimer:  Fragile.  Contents inflammable.  Do not use near open flame.

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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 89 10:19:20 PST
From: falk at Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #326 (December 19, 1989)

> 
> On another topic, I started my latest batch this week-end, and instead
> of "pitching" the yeast, this time I decided to "start" it first in a cup
> of warm water. Well, it's been two days, and still no sign of life... What
> could be the cause? And what are the usual causes of slow- or not- starting
> yeast?

Man, I had that problem in spades.  I'm trying to make mead (I'm using
Karen Norteman's recipe derived from Kenelme Digbie) and managed to get
some real mead yeast from the Fermentation Settlement.  The people at
the store warned me that it would take a long time to get started and
they weren't kidding.  I pitched on Friday morning (temp. 95f) and had
no activity by Tuesday so I figured I'd pitched too hot and killed the
yeast.  I went back to the store and bought two more packets.  The
people at the store told me they got complaints about the stuff all the
time, but had enough customers who wanted it to justify keeping it on
the shelves.

Anyway, I pitched again and a week later, there's *still* no activity.
Two days ago, I made up a starter bottle with the remaining packet and
it only just started showing activity this morning.  Fooey.  I've
waited too long and I'm afraid the must is going to get infected.  I'm
going to pitch it with champagne yeast and be done with it.

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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 89 10:29:58 -0800
From: UNLV Student ACM Chapter <acm at uns-helios.nevada.edu>
Subject: garlic recipes

howdy, howdy,

        i would like to know if anybody out there has any recipes
         that include garlic.  i have looked in the papazian book
         but he only mentions garlic, that i could see.

         thanks for any information that may show up.
                                 chris sinanian.

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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 89 16:59:26 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Yet more discussion of glass vs. plastic carboys


There's been quite a bit of speculation lately about the relative merits
of plastic and glass carboys.  While glass carboys are heavier and can
break, there does seem to be some evidence that they will produce a
better beer.

Are there any numbers or facts to back up that assertion?  Well, maybe.
Take a look at the statistical breakdown of entries and winners in the
AHA homebrewing competition.  (They appear on page 64 of the special
yeast issue of "Zymurgy" magazine, which many of you undoubtedly have
access to).

Of all the entries submitted, 77% were fermented in glass, 20% in
plastic, and 3% in steel.  However, when you look at the breakdown
of winners the benefit of glass starts to become clear.  88% of all
winning entries were fermented in glass, 6% in steel, and 6% in
plastic.  This might indicate that the plastic is inferior, either
because of leaching, because plastic is more likely to harbor bacterial
infections, or because of the permeability of the material.

Of course it could also be that experienced brewers just tend to favor
glass, and that the statistical difference is caused more by differences
in experience than in material differences. :*)

Comments?

- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at ra.stsci.edu


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #327, 12/20/89
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