---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Practical RIMS Modifications (AKGOURMET)
  Mead Quest (Aaron Perry)
  Re: Wine from concentrate ("Dan Dewberry")
  Call for Judges for the Maltose Falcons Mayfaire (Tom Wolf)
  Wyeast strain ID (Scott Murman)
  Bourbon Barrels ("Matt Hollingsworth")
  Dr Pivo Meets Mr Pieman ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Re: high final running SG question (patrick finerty)
  Re: Re: high final running SG question (Some Guy)
  Belgian Beers (Nathan Kanous)
  Pivolities ("Alan Meeker")
  pitching rates (cbuckley)
  HBD Size or Frequency ("Martin Brungard")
  Big Brew 2000 (Midwest Brewer)
  brett. cultures ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  RE: high final running SG question (LaBorde, Ronald)
  New date for South Shore Brewoff 2000 ("Reed,Randy")
  Re: Bourbon barrel Stout (Chris Campagna)
  extraction ("Bayer, Mark A")
  Davison Color Guide (Mark Tumarkin)
  Keg fittings: what can go wrong? (RiedelD)
  Re: hop growing questions. ("Sieben, Richard")
  Re: Hop cultivation (Mark Kellums)
  Czech Brews (Nathan Kanous)
  WYeast 3333 (Nathan Kanous)
  starter for Weisen Edel-Weisse? (darrell.leavitt)
  "Pivigorous" with my yeast (MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA)
  MCAB (RBoland)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

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* Go to aol://5863:126/mBLA:185893

* Entry deadline for the Mayfare Homebrew Competition is 3/15/00 
* See http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ for more information

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:29:54 EST
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: Practical RIMS Modifications

Yesterday, I brewed an 11 gallon batch of Premium Lager on my RIMS. This is 
only my 6th. batch on the RIMS, but I have made some modifications recently 
that really worked out well so I thought I would share them with the group.

I use a 48 qt. rectangular cooler with a copper manifold for the mash/lauter 
tun.  The manifold has 4 lengths of 1/2" pipe running the length of the 
cooler.  I had cut slots every 1/2" along the pipes.  That worked ok with 
just water, but when grain was added, recirculation was too slow.  That was 
with the slots facing the bottom.  I didn't try it with the slots facing 
upward.  Prior to my most recent batch, I took those pipes and drilled 1/8" 
holes through them at each slot perpendicular to the bottom.  That 
dramatically improved the flow.  I think a false bottom would work best -- in 
fact, you could just lay it across the pipes -- but I couldn't find any 
material to make one.  

The second mod. was to the return manifold in the mash tun.  Previously, my 
return manifold looked like an H with the outflow centered in each quadrant 
of the cooler.  In theory, this is optimum.  In practice, I didn't like it.  
Unless it was prefectly level, the outflows where never equal.  It also 
didn't allow you to stir the mash.  My solution was to make a manifold out of 
1/2" copper pipe that fit snug around the  perimeter of the cooler and has 
3/8" holes that direct the flow inward. It fits snug enough that I can move 
it up or down so it's just above the grain bed.  This worked great.  I am now 
able to easily stir the top half of the mash every 15 minutes or so and check 
the temperature in several spots. 

My RIMS is a heat exchange model with a copper coil in the 48 qt. sparge pot. 
 Previously, I used 10' of 1/2" for the coil.  That wasn't enough.  Now I 
have 30' of 1/2" with the coils held firmly and slightly separated by copper 
wire.  I haven't measured the temp. rise in degrees per minute, but it's an 
improvement and I'm happy with it.  

Finally, and this is not RIMS related, I replaced the 3/8" valve in my 18 
gallon stainless pot with a 1/2" valve.  It used to take forever to fill 2 
carboys with that little spigot and it was prone to clogging.  Yesterday, I 
drained 11 gallons in what seemed like a couple of minutes.  It was like 
turning on a faucet.  'Course, I had my hops in bags, which didn't hurt.  

That's it.  My efficiency went from 75% to 79% (according to Suds 4.0).  I'm 
sure that's partly due to double crushing the grain, but I think being able 
to stir the mash also helped.   

Bill Wright
Juneau, Alaska


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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:36:09 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: Mead Quest

Hey Everyone,

How's brewing?

I have a few Mead questions to pose to the collective (who gets to be
Lebrewtus?)

I plan on brewing a batch of pretty low gravity mead (1.050).
I will flavor with Ginger and Hops in the boil. I will probably use
some yeast nutrient. I plan on fermenting with WY #1056.
When primary fermentation is over, I'm figuring on about a month
to a month and a half in the secondary. I'll then force carbonate
in a "corny". All this fuss is over whether the brew will be ready
for my Big Brew party 5/6/00.

(new paragraph ;-)
My first question is: will the ale yeast work as well as in an
all malt brew? Secondly, will my short aging times negatively affect
the flavor of my mead? Usually I sit on my meads for a long time,
but usually the are of a much higher gravity and fermented with wine yeast.

Any help or insight with my journey into the unknown would be
greatly appreciated!

TIA
Aaron Perry
vspbcb at earthlink.net
Private e-mail ok!

....resistance is futile.



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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:20:36 -0600
From: "Dan Dewberry" <dandew at netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Wine from concentrate

 > Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:05:33 -0600
> From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
> Subject: Wine from Concentrate
>
> Well, the merlot needs to age a year or so but we had the white with
flounder
> last night and much to my surprise, we really liked the wine.
>
> It was mildly fruity and on the sweet side of dry with just a hint of an
> aftertaste.  The interest improved with each taste and by the time the
bottle
> was empty, I wanted more.
>
> I guess if I had paid $20 and it had a fancy French name, I would not have
been
> disappointed.  Definately a cut above jug wine and as good as most of the
$10
> wine we have on Friday with fish.
>
> I have no way of making white wine (requires a press) and only drink one
bottle
> a week so I am definately interested in trying this myself.  I will let
Alan
> explain what went into this wine. It is my understanding that it was
pretty much
> the bottom of the line.

I have been making wine from concentrate for a couple of years now & have
been quite impressed with the results.  I have mainly used Selection juice
and bought fresh dry yeast (I don't use the yeast in the box).   I have a
merlot that also needs more aging, but a French Syrah turned out nice, along
w/ a Chardonnay/Semillon, & a Johannisberg Riesling.  I am waiting on a
Chenin Blanc and an oakey Cabernet Sauvignon now.  You don't have the same
control as in making all-grain beer, but it's fun nonetheless and they make
great gifts.

Dan in Austin

__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html


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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:09:53 -0700
From: Tom Wolf <wolfhrt at ibm.net>
Subject: Call for Judges for the Maltose Falcons Mayfaire 

Greetings all honorable judges and potential stewards, especially those
of you who have supported the Maltose Falcons home brewing contests in
the past!  All judges are welcome. As you know there are never too many.

The Maltose Falcon's Mayfaire judging will be held at 9:00 AM on
Saturday, April 1st at the St. Luke Church in Woodland Hills California.
The address is 5312 Comercio Way, 1blk east of Canoga and 2 blocks south
of Ventura.

If you are interested in judging our Mayfaire competition or if you know
of other interested judges or potential stewards please refer them to
me! If you would like to register or just have other questions, please
contact me, Tom Wolf: (wolf1 at ibm.net) 661-296-0872 home and 661-702-5487
work.




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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:15:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Wyeast strain ID


As some of you know, I have a page which attempts to document the
source of many of the strains available to homebrewers
www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy/yeast.html

The Duvel post reminded me that this was one of the strains that I
don't know first-hand.  On my page one of the Wyeast strains is listed
as the Duvel strain (probably bottling?), but after lo these many
years I can't remember where I got this info.  Can anyone help me out
here?

Also, Wyeast has recently begun selling some new strains.  I do have
ID's for most of these, but what I don't have is a list of what their
names and numbers are.  Can someone send me a list of the new Wyeast
strains please, and I'll add their sources to the web page.  Thanks.

Hope someone helps.

 -SM-




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Date: 13 Mar 2000 22:26:54 -0800
From: "Matt Hollingsworth" <colorart at spiritone.com>
Subject: Bourbon Barrels

Eric Murray mentions using Bourbon Barrels for aging.  

This practice is slowly becoming more and more popular, although it's still
rare.

Locally, in Portland, the beer that springs to mind is Widmer's Bourbon
Bock.  They produced this beer for the Oregon Brewers festival a couple of
years ago, presumably to show off.  It wasn't meant for distribution other
than at the fest (possibly an anniversary ale??).  It was very popular,
though, and they released a limited amount on draft.  Lucky for me, because
I didn't try it at the festival.  I don't generally drink their beers
because of their close association with AB (vote with your dollar, I say),
but word of mouth was so strong on this beer that when I saw it on tap I had
to try it.

It was delicicious.  It was a very strong pale bock beer, with fairly
prominent bourbon notes, balanced beautifully.  I wouldn't mind trying
something similar myself, but bourbon barrels are way bigger than I would
use for homebrew.

Cheers!

 -Matt


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:56:41 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Dr Pivo Meets Mr Pieman

Well I am feeling a bit responsible here. Not for the fact that Dr Pivo
enjoyed his Tasmanian visit (though he didn't like the rotting flesh in Mr
Pieman's teeth - the owners of the rotting flesh liked it even less!) but
for the fact that no one else in here knows anything of Mr Pieman and his
relevance to beer.

Mr Renner knows.
But when you live at earth's centre, there can be very little you don't
know.

Alexander Pieman was a prisoner in the convict prison at Macquarie Harbour
on the south west coast of Tasmania. It was one of the most dreaded prisons
of all and escape was considered impossible due to the nature of Tasmania's
south west terrain and climate, not to mention the ferocious fauna such as
Tasmanian Devils and Tigers of which there were plenty.

But our happy beer swilling mate Alexander, along with a few pals, got out
and could not be found. They simply vanished into the bush.

Quite some time later Mr Pieman was captured but it seemed all his mates had
gotten away, they were no where to be found. It was discovered later that Mr
Pieman had eaten them, all that climbing over rugged terrain had obviously
made him a bit peckish.

So what the hell has this got to do with beer? Nothing much, but I was asked
to explain it, Doc Pivo enjoyed it, and Alan Meeker is still trying to work
out how much yeast to put in his beer.

Sorry Al, I've been a bit mean to you lately.

I do have some technical data I wanted to present on immersion chillers.

And a mention of some problems brewing with rice.

Maybe next post

Cheers
Phil




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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:09:02 -0500 (EST)
From: patrick finerty <zinc at zifi.psf.sickkids.on.ca>
Subject: Re: high final running SG question

On March 13, 2000, Taber, Bruce wrote:


 > I am confused.  If the sparge is too fast or too cold, and yet you have
 > extracted the amount of wort that you need, wouldn't the final runnings have
 > a very low SG?  If your final runnings have a SG > 1.020, then the SG of
 > your wort would be nice and high meaning that you have good extraction
 > efficiency.


Hi Bruce,

if you sparge too fast you will likely cause channels to form in the
grain bed. once this happens much of the grain will no longer be
rinsed by the sparge water. i think it's unlikely that one would hit
the target gravity in this situation unless one normally gets poor
extraction and had adjusted the grain bill accordingly.

although i sparge at 170 F, i'm not sure why temperature is so
important for extraction efficiency. hopefully someone else will
enlighten us.

hth,

 -patrick in toronto

- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		 http://abragam.med.utoronto.ca/~zinc


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:23:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Re: high final running SG question

On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, patrick finerty wrote:

> although i sparge at 170 F, i'm not sure why temperature is so
> important for extraction efficiency. hopefully someone else will
> enlighten us.

This has more to do with molasses in January than anything technical: the
higher the temperature of the water, the higher the temperature of the
sugars and the easier to get them to flow. Also, sugars dissolve more
readily in hot water than in cold. (For the scientifically inclined: 
gasses dissolve more readily in cold liquids. Why?)

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:22:35 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Belgian Beers

Let us not forget Phillip Seitz's "Brewing and Judging Belgian Beers" 
<http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/realbeer/Belgian/index.html>.
This site has served me well in the past.
nathan in madison, wi


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:31:10 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Pivolities

OK. Now he's gone too far. Claiming to be the originator of the  (*) ! My
God, his arrogance knows no bounds! Next he'll be claiming he came up with
:)


 -Alan






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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:02:07 -0500
From: cbuckley at newsoft.com
Subject: pitching rates



I wonder why there is so much hype about pitching rates.   I am new to
homebrewing as of this year.  I have five very good extract brews under my belt
now and I know that I don't pitch much yeast when compared to many of you.  I
have had three good batches using only one Edme dry yeast pak mixed right into
the 74 degree wort.  The other two batches I used a local liquid yeast, again
straight into the wort.

My beers taste very good and most of my friends (except the bud, coors type)
think so too.   I have had to rouse the yeast in two batches but otherwise the
gravity ends in an acceptable range.   I am pretty careful to clean and sanitize
my equipment with each use.   I have not had a contamination problem.

I hope that somebody can tell me why I should make a point to make a starter and
pitch more yeast.  I understand that I will have a shorter lag time.  My lag
time is 48+ hours now but all that means to me is I have to wait two more days
to drink the beer.  (one point for starters).    Why all the fuss?   Is it just
a matter of time before I have a contamination problem because I am under
pitching?  Will my beer really taste that much better?  Will I be able to bottle
sooner?

Fermenting at my house is a two step process.  About 7 days in a primary then
another few days to a week or whatever in a carboy to clear and bring the
gravity down another .002 - .004 or so.  The temperature is about 65 degrees
(winter in NH with high oil prices) so I don't think that is real slow.

>From reading HBD for the past couple of months it seems that I am committing a
crime by "underpitching" and not using a starter.   What will happen to my beer
if I pitch more yeast.?   I have CP's book and one from Dave Miller if I do
start to use starters, what method should I use and why.   Can I go with "if it
aint broke don't fix it"?   Basically I want to know if I will see a huge
difference in my beer or the time that it takes to complete a batch.

Hope this helps...

ooops.-   hope you can help.

thanks
Cass -  Portsmouth NH




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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:06:54 EST
From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com>
Subject: HBD Size or Frequency

I'm aware that this forum is limited to an arbitrary size and mailing 
frequency of 50k and once a day. I just reviewed the HBD archives and found 
that the last time this subject was discussed was in 1996.

At that time, there was both a digested and undigested version of this 
forum. Now, there is only the digest.

The current size limitation frequently means that it could be a couple of 
days to have replies on a subject. That frequently means that a thread drags 
on for a while. In my opinion, we would be better off with a minor revision 
to HBD to either increase the digest size or to increase the frequency. I'll 
bet that a majority of the subscribers have a reasonably fast email 
connection and having more or larger HBD posts is not a significant problem 
anymore.

I'm sure the Janitors have a feeling for how large the posting size would 
have to be to make the daily backlog go away. I'm not sure if that posting 
size is really workable though. Another option could be to increase the 
frequency to twice a day. I'll leave it to the group to offer comments.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL

"Meandering to a different drummer"


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:36:25 -0600
From: Midwest Brewer <mgeorge at bridge.com>
Subject: Big Brew 2000

Hmm...appears its getting close to time for the Big Brew 2K.  AT LAST
THEY CHOSE A NORMAL BEER!  The first 2 years of this undertaking I've
sat idle and watched, as there was no way I could brew the Big 12
Barleywine nor did I want to brew the Collaborator Stout (just seemed
too weird to me).  Now we have a classic, SNPA.  An excellent choice -
and hopefully we will get lucky and get the right recipe from Sierra
Nevada.  But...I have to question the recipe posted from Paul and the
fine people at the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild.

>From the AHA post:

The official AHA Big Brew 2000 recipe is based on the eighteen attempts
of
Chris P. Frey of the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild and Fermental Order of
Renaissance Draughtsmen (FORD) to emulate Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.  Here
is
the official recipe for the Big Brew.

Big Brew 2000, Nearly Nirvana Pale Ale
All Grain Recipe for 5 gallons:
6.5 gallons water (2.5 mash, 4 sparge)
1 T gypsum (unless using hard water)
7 lb U.S. two row malt
1/2 lb U.S. crystal malt  60 L
1/2 lb U.S. dextrin malt
1 oz Perle hops (first wort hop)
1/2 oz Cascade hops  (flavor)
1/2 t Irish moss
1/2 oz Cascade hops (aroma)
1/2 oz Cascade hops (dry hop)
Wyeast 1056 liquid ale yeast

Fine...I'll agree there isn't a whole lot going on here, but I have to
question that base malt amount.  If I'm recalling correctly (and this is
on the SN webpage), they list the OG as 13 degrees Plato, and the ending
at 2.8 degrees.  According to the grain bill proposed above, I would
have to get better than 90% efficiency to reach the OG recommended!!!
These #'s were determined using ProMash (if you're not using ProMash you
should be - it's a great piece of software).

Guys...if you want people to participate in this and be successful, make
a recipe that will be a little more realistic for the average
homebrewer.  This isn't quite going to cut it for the guy that averages
around 75% efficiency in his allgrain setup.  I would have to up that
base malt to around 9 lbs of 2-row to get close to the 13 degrees Plato
benchmark.

I do however, plan on participating - SNPA is a terrific beer!

Midwest Brewer
Glen Carbon, IL



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:56:14 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: brett. cultures

George (gdepiro at mindspring.com) writes that brett. culture can be purchased
from the Yeast Culture Kit Company. Wyeast also has them, and Paddock Wood
stocks them. Not exactly my mug of beer, but FWIW, here is the description:

3112 Brettanomyces bruxellensis:

Wild yeast isolated from brewery cultures in the Brussels region of Belgium.
Produces the classic sweaty horse hair character indigenous to beers of this
region; gueuze, lambics, sour browns. Ferments best in worts with lower pH
after primary fermentation has begun. This strain is generally used in
conjunction with S. Cerevisiae as well as other wild yeast and lactic
bacteria. Produces some acidity and may form a a thin film or layer in
bottles or casks. Generally requires 3-6 months aging for flavor to fully
develop. Flocculation medium; apparent attenuation low. (60-75 F)

Wyeast also introduced a couple other Belgian strains. Details at
http://www.paddockwood.com/catalog_yeast.html

(sweaty horse hair character? yummmmmm...)

hope this helps!

Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevesiae sugat."
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:52:53 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: high final running SG question

>From: "Taber, Bruce" <Bruce.Taber at nrc.ca>

>> 2.  Sparging too fast and/or too cold can reduce your efficiency.  What
is
>the SG of your final runnings?  If it is high (>1.020), then something is
>wrong.

>....If your final runnings have a SG > 1.020, then the SG of
>your wort would be nice and high meaning that you have good extraction
>efficiency....

The efficiency would be calculated as the gravity points per pound of grain
per gallon of wort, so if you get final runnings with SG > 1.020, you must
have used either more grain or less liquor - still the efficiency will be
low. Low by comparison with other brewing figures, but nominal for your
methodology.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:19:24 -0500
From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed at foxboro.com>
Subject: New date for South Shore Brewoff 2000

Everyone,

Since Plymouth Bay Brewing has closed its doors, we have changed the
location and date for the South Shore Brewoff 2000.

*	It will now be held April 15 at Trinity Brewing in Providence, RI.
The deadline for entry is still April 1st. 

Hope to see you and your entries there!

For more information and entry forms, please surf to:

http://members.aol.com/brewclub/index.htm
<http://members.aol.com/brewclub/index.htm> 

Cheers,
Randy

South Shore Brew Club - In Search of the Perfect Pint


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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:25:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Campagna <campagna at umd5.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: Bourbon barrel Stout

Old Dominion Brewery in Virginia does the same thing.  After trying some
on their tour I decided to give it a try and it is one of my favorites.  I
use my favorit dry stout recipe and throw in 8 oz. of oak chips soaked in
bourbon to the secondary for a week or two.  The flavor changes slightly
with aging.  Initially, after about 3 weeks in the bottle it has a strong
bourbon flavor that doesn't quite blend in. After 2 months it has a good
balance that is perfect.  I had one bottle saved up for a special occasion
(read, i forgot I had it) that i cracked open 6 months old and the flavor
had diminished to an aftertaste.

Godo luck

Chris



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:34:26 -0800
From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com>
Subject: extraction

collective homebrew conscience_

bruce t. wondered_

>If your final runnings have a SG > 1.020, then the SG of
>your wort would be nice and high meaning that you have good extraction
>efficiency.<snip>What am I missing?

if your final runnings have a SG greater than 1.020, it means there is still
a lot of malt sugar in the lauter tun that you didn't extract. you've left
it behind. on the upside, the cattle like it more.

brew hard,

mark bayer
stl mo



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:03:39 -0500
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Davison Color Guide

In recent posts, both Alan and AJ discuss the Davison Color Guide. It
may be limited and imperfect, but it seems to be one of the better
(only) tools available to 'guide' us in judging beer color.
Unfortunately, I don't have one. Does anyone know if Dennis Davison is
still selling them, or know of any homebrew shops who may still have
them available?

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl



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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:46:10 -0800
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: Keg fittings: what can go wrong?

Lately I've been having leakage problems with some of
my keg fittings.  I'm about ready to take one apart, but
before I do, I'd like to ask the collective about what things
to look for.

I'd say that the most likely culprits are O-rings and
poppet (is that the right terminology?) springs.  But,
what about the gas-in/liquid-out fittings themselves?
Do these things ever leak?  Or, are they relying solely
on the O-rings to make the seal?

thanks in advance,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Can.  


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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:30:21 -0600
From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com>
Subject: Re: hop growing questions.

This 2k message was bounced for some reason as being over 8k?  So if it
appears twice, you all know why I am resending it.

This will be my third year of hop growing and I now have 11 varieties of
hops.  It became apparent at the end of last season that I would have to
till between the plants as the root system was kind of going out of controll
and I would have mutiple variteties growing out of each hill this season.  I
did till at the end of last season and pulled out excess root system.  We
shall see how that works.

My experience has been that some varieties can give significant cones in the
first year, Cascades, Bullion and Nugget in particular. (about 1/2 lb dry
weight each)  Liberty and Willamette also did pretty well (1/4 lb dry weight
first year).  Saaz on the other hand apparently need about 3 years to give
siginificant production.  I only got one cone the first year and a handful
last year.  I was also told by someone with experience growing Saaz, that
there is a 3 year period of 'infant diseases' that have to be tolerated
before the plant really starts to produce.  I did have some yellowing of
leaves last year, but I think it had to do with the dry season myself.  

 I was also experimenting with putting grass clippings down around the
plants to keep weeds/ grass growth down and to hold in moisture.  Does well
with the weeds, but they do require water still as I found out last year
when it was just too damn dry and I ended up with huge plants with few
cones.  In this case I think maybe you can get away with watering every
other day as was the case with the Cascades last year. (Cascades were new
plants last season and since they were 'babies' I watered more than the
other plants, the result was a lot of Cascade cones and fewer on the other
plants....live an learn).

I understand deer like hop shoots as much as I do (great when fried with
garlic and butter) but they seem to have left them alone.  My thought was
that maybe midwestern deer don't know what they are anyway.

All my hop plants reached the top of the trelis in thier first year (12
feet), they do spread out a bit after they hit the top of the trelis, but
then seem to just stop.  Maybe this year will be different for me as I will
water more and they are well established plants now.

I have been very pleased with my hops and have no trouble using them even
for bittering.  If they appear a little strong or weak you can adjust your
next recipe accordingly.  I start with the assumption that the alpha level
is in the middle of the 'typical' range for the variety.  You can't be too
far off this way.

Other hints, if I was to start over, I would space different varieties more
than 5 feet apart as I did, you have to be careful to keep the 'children'
apart as they love to grow together.  I know another homebrewer that cut the
bottoms off of plastic 5 gallon pails and planted his hops in the buckets
which were buried in the soil, this was done to keep the roots from growing
together.  We shall see if it has a negative impact on production, I suspect
it may.

That's my hop report for now...stay tuned as the growing season begins soon.

Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL
home of the deminimus hop ranch



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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:09:14 -0600
From: Mark Kellums <kellums at springnet1.com>
Subject: Re: Hop cultivation

Hello,

After a move for us last fall I'll be reestablishing my hop garden this
spring. I
dug up most of my rhizomes last fall, cut them up, washed them up, put
them in
ziplocs and stored them in the fridge over the winter. I'll be planting
most of
these same varieties here at the new house. My hop garden will consist
mainly of
Ultra, Cascade, and Eroica, but I've also decided to try out a few new
varieties,
Perle, Magnum, and Wye Viking.

I think whether or not you get cones or not the first year depends a lot
on the
varieties you choose. I got plenty of cones off my first year Cascades.
My first
year Eroicas yielded nearly a half pound of dried hops from just two
plants grown
out of five gallon buckets. I've also got good first year results from
Galena,
Chinook, Bullion, Nugget, and Ultra. On the other hand my Goldings,
Tettnangs,
and Columbias never did put out very many hops even after 5 years of
growth. I
finally gave up on them.

I can't say that I ever really had to many problems from and furry
critters. With
the exception of an occasional rabbit munching on some of the baby
shoots. They
never harmed the plants and were probably doing me a favor by removing
some of
the early growth.

Last year I had a few problems with Japanese beetles, leaf hoppers, and
spider
mites. If you catch the mites early you can knock them back with
Malathion. At
least that's what I used. I mixed it up half strength and it really did
a job on
the bugs. I check my  hop plants daily ever on the look out for any
problems.

As for watering I've also found that you almost can't over water. They
just love
the water. Unless it rains I generally water everyday. For fertilizer I
apply a
half strength dose of 30-15-15 about every three weeks or whenever I
think they
need it.

This year I'm planting all of my hops in five gallon buckets. I've
drilled holes
in the bottom and sides for drainage. I've buried the buckets in the
ground about
a foot deep. I'll also mulch them well. This should do a better job of
keeping
the rhizomes in check, make it easier to harvest any rhizomes and also
if I need
to I can move the hops by just pulling the bucket. We'll see.

The quality of the hops has been quite good. I'm especially pleased with
the
Ultra. It puts out a lot of hops and the aroma is fantastic IMO. I've
been using
all of my homegrown hops for both bittering and aroma additions. I just
use the
average alpha for whatever variety and go with that. The beers have
turned out
pretty good thus far. As for storage, I finally broke down last season
and bought
another Foodsaver. I've been vacuum packing the dried hops in mason jars
and then
freezing. This works great and I'm also able to vacuum pack my specialty
grains
this way.

BTW, I got my new varieties at Freshops. They've got some other
interesting
varieties available as well. A Yugoslav  hop, Vojvodina, Wye Viking,
Kirin II a
Japanese hop, some newer hybrids, Vanguard, Horizon, and Santiam. Not
affiliated
with Freshops in any way, it's just exciting to see some new varieties
offered. I
wish I had room to grow them all!

Hope this helps.

Mark Kellums
Decatur IL.



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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:18:45 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Czech Brews

Hi All,
I have an opportunity.  I have a colleague that is travelling to 
Czechoslovakia.   She's willing to do me a favor, but needs as detailed 
directions as she can get.  She's got a pretty full agenda and her
grandmother is travelling with her, so she may not be able to hit any pubs, 
but could bring some beer back if I can tell her where to get it and what 
to get.

She'll be staying in Prague at either the Hilton or Hyatt (one of the 
"H's").  Don't know how many of these there may be in Prague.  She'll also 
be spending a day or two in Krakow "in the center of the city" (yeah, 
that's Poland not Czech....just help with beer, not geography please).

Anybody got suggestions of where she can get to easily to buy beer?  I'll 
certainly recommend that she talk to a concierge about this as well.

I had in mind some Urquell and some Budvar.  I've selected these as 
world-class examples of the Bohemian Pilsner style.  Other ideas from those 
who've been?  Again, she'll only be able to get to stores, not on-site to 
breweries.

Your help is greatly appreciated.
nathan in madison, wi



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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:19:16 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: WYeast 3333

Anybody got experience using WYeast 3333 German Wheat?  Source?  Recipe 
suggestions?
TIA.
nathan in madison, wi



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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:47:21 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: starter for Weisen Edel-Weisse?

Date sent:  15-MAR-2000 15:42:06 

I was lucky recently to find a bottle of the new SCHNEIDER WEISSE/ Weisen 
Edel-Weisse.  It is apparently from Bavaria, based upon a recipe that was 
last brewed at the Munich Oktoberfest 57 years ago!  Anyway, it tasted very 
good so I would like to culture this from the bottle.  I have another and 
will use it to hopefully make a clone of this Hefe.

Is anyone familiar with the yeast that they use in this?  And, any 
suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 ..Darrell

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/
_/Darrell Leavitt                              _/
_/INternet: leavitdg at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu _/
_/Internet (receives attachments):             _/
_/          dleavitt at sln.esc.edu               _/
_/AMpr.net: n2ixl at k2cc.ampr.org              _/
_/AX25 : n2ixl  at  kd2aj.#nny.ny.usa             _/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/


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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:43:45 -0500 (EST)
From: MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA <mmaceyka at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: "Pivigorous" with my yeast

Howdy,

	I have listened to the recent Dr. Pivo vs. the Librarians Cage
Match '00 with much bemusement.  Dr. Pivo's notion, if I understand it, is
that we all could learn a little by flouting dogma and doing some experiments
for ourselves for a change.  We may find that the dogma was right all along,
or perhaps that it is a load of crap because it doesn't apply to our
situations.  This is exactly the attitude I take with brewing.

	It may surprise Dr. Pivo to learn that this is also the
attitude of one Alan Meeker.  A true scientist, he is more interested in the
experiment and its results than the hypothesis.  He knows much of the
literature, and knows much of it does not apply directly to him.  It is a
guide, a jumping off point; it is not the final word.  Oh, and most of his
experiments result in good beer. No way the good doctor would know this,
though I am suprised he came to the exact opposite conclusion.

	One of Dr. Pivo's points has really struck me, and that is the depth
to which he has investigated his yeast.  I have tried many different yeasts,
but I have not been nearly as rigorous as I need to be.  I would like to
narrow the yeasts in my ranch, and more fully investigate them.  I would
narrow the list down to the following types, based on styles I like:

Weizen yeast: already got one I like - Wyeast's version (3068) of
Weihenstephan's 68 (streak purified, of course...)

Neutral ale yeast: 1056 or Narraganset seem obvious, maybe too obvious...

English ale yeast: something big and estery, maybe a Yorkshire?

Belgian ale yeast: high gravity tolerant, bold and phenolic; I got lucky a
couple of times with Affligem, but would love to get a Duvel clone down.  And
then there's Chimay, Hoegaarden, Westmalle, L'Achouffe...

Sulfury Continental lager yeast: probably the only lager strain, don't do many
of them but the ones I do I would like to have a hint of sulfur in the
finished product.  I have used Wyeast's  "PU" - 2278 and liked it, I guess...

	Anyhow, I guess the point of my ramblings is that I want to have a
narrow stable of yeasts, but in order to begin the winnowing process, I would
like to use the HBD as my "literature."  I already have much of the standard
information off the web.  Anybody out there got a yeast they have spent some
time with that they really like (in the above catagories or not, I'm open...)?
Anybody been "Pivigorous" with 1056, 1968, Chimay, Ayinger, etc.?  Any and all
information would be appreciated, and if there is significant interest I'll
repost it.  Oh, and I'll keep the digests informed as to what I find in my own
experiments.

Mike Maceyka
Baltimore and Takoma Park, MD
"That Saccharomyces lack Golgi stacks is kinda thesis-related..."





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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:44:58 EST
From: RBoland at aol.com
Subject: MCAB

There's not much time left to register for the Masters Championship of 
Amateur Brewing and Technical conference being held in St. Louis March 24-26. 
 It will be The Homebrewing Event of the year.  Information and registration 
can be found at www.stlbrews.org.  We'll meet you in St. Louis, meet you with 
a beer.

Bob Boland


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