---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Iron in brewing (Some Guy)
  10 gallon cornys (Marc Sedam)
  Cavity Search ("Doug Otto")
  Mostly Water ("A. J. deLange")
  Entry Deadline Palmetto State Brewers Open ("H. Dowda")
  Swagelok Bulkhead Fitting ("Dan Senne")
  Mr. Beer in Canada? (BsmntBrewr)
  Fred Garvin's Dirt (fred_garvin)
  Yeast - Respiratory Deficient Petite Mutants ("Paul Smith")
  mash temperatures and yeast attentuation (JSTanker)
  windscreens for burner ("scott")
  amylase enzymes, Principles of BS, gelatinization, Iron (Dave Burley)
  Iron Clad Arguments ("Dr. Pivo")
  Czech Hopping ("Dr. Pivo")
  How many pounds? (Kelly)
  AC motor speed ("Murray, Eric")
  parti-gyle (Marc Sedam)
  Cider (Elizabeth Blades)
  Questions about types of sugar for Belgian Ales ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Mill motorizing ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Re: AC motors ("Joe O'Meara")
  re: mashout? ("Stephen Alexander")
  re- mash-out ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entries for the 18th Annual HOPS competition are due 3/24-4/2/00 
* See http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/ for more information

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:22:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Iron in brewing

On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Alan Meeker wrote:

> I try to avoid iron like the plague in my brewing. However, it is
> interesting to note that, according to Michael Jackson, DeKoninck is
> actually boiled in a /cast iron/ kettle!! Go figure.

Yes, but would you do that with a Pilsner?


 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:13:10 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: 10 gallon cornys 

Does anyone know a good source for 10 gallon cornies?  By
"good" I mean reasonably priced and regularly in stock.  Do
they make these with pin locks?

 -Marc



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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:14:31 -0800
From: "Doug Otto" <beerguy at hopdog.com>
Subject: Cavity Search

Greeting Brewing Collective

According the to this mornings local newspaper, the city of Sacramento is
planning on adding fluoride to our water.  I live in the burbs so I'm in a
different water district, but I figure it can't be far away.  Apparently
this move is supposed to help those who can't afford toothpaste or some
other nonsense.  What, if any, impact would this have on my brews?  I
currently filter my brewing water (0.5 micron) and use a full boil.

Thanks

- --
Doug Otto
Carmichael, CA
beerguy at hopdog.com
http://www.hopdog.com/





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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:33:33 +0000
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Mostly Water

Way back  Sean wrote:

>A.J. deLange writes with a totally straight face...
>==========================================
>The chemical potential of a gas (or anything...

>Holy smokes!  If I want to get fancy?!?!  Are you still in school ...

First  I get to ask a question: How do you know I wrote that with a
straight face? Now I'll answer Sean's: yes, and when it comes to this
sort of stuff expect to be for the rest of my life!  Being serious for a
moment, I am amazed at how many times equalization of chemical potential
has lent better understanding of brewing related problems..

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * *

There were several water questions in the last couple of issues. First,
was a question about excessive iron. Iron is not harmful to people at
the level at which you could force yourself to drink the water. The EPA
has a secondary limit of 0.3 mg/L  but no primary limit.  Beer will be
ruined at 0.1 mg/L so we want to get the iron level below that. This is
actually pretty easy to do. Aerate the water thoroughly. This will
oxidize "clear water" iron to the +3 state whereupon it will form a
hydroxide gel. High pH helps in this but aeration will raise the pH
somewhat in most cases. The gel now needs to be filtered out somehow.
Passing the water through some clean sand should do the job. The brown
gunk can easily be backflushed from the sand.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

WRT  to Marc's post - I agree with  Matt's conclusion that this water
certainly looks as it was  run through a cation exchange because I can't
think of any other way that it would be so low in calcium and so high in
sodium without any chloride to speak of. But there are a couple of
things that are bothersome about this. First, who would run his water
through a home softener and then have such a complete analysis done?
Second, the iron is a bit high - most cation exchangers would grab more
of it - though there are special treatments which enhance the ability of
home softeners to capture iron. Whatever the source (and I'm very
curious) , the water is clearly not very suitable for brewing (though
beer could be brewed with it). Huge alkalinity with no calcium to offset
would require a lot of dark malt. That could be fixed by decarbonating
with lime but the high sodium level would remain. This might come
through in the taste of beers brewed with this water. The iron level is
also higher than desired but that can also be fixed as described above.

I cannot agree that swapping potassium chloride for salt in the brine
tank would do much for the brewing qualities of this water though I
remember posting the same suggestion a few years back based on reasoning
for which I cannot offer an explanation.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Now, on to Strom's water:
Alkalinity              28.5;   Calcium         3.6;
Chloride                13.9;   Chlorine, free  0.08;   Chlorine, total
2.05
Hardness                12;    Magnesium       0.722;   pH
8.9
Sodium                  20.1; Sulfate         6.7;  Total dissolved
solids    70

This looks like pretty good stuff except for one thing and that is that
most of the chlorine used to disinfect is in the form of chloramine
which is difficult to remove by aeration, standing or boiling.
Fortunately, we have other means in our arsenal in particular the lowly
Campden tablet in a dose of 1 tablet per 20 gallons of water should do
the job. It's a little bit of a nuisance to get these things to dissolve
so try crushing the tablet before adding to the water and then be
prepared for quite a bit of stirring.

The water is quite soft and thus especially suitable for Pilsners,
Helles etc. On the other hand, supplementation with some gypsum would be
of benefit for British ales. Some chalk will probably be required for
dark, Bavarian beers (Bocks, Dunkles) to keep the dark malt from
lowering mash pH too much. Don't worry about the high pH. I'm guessing
that this water came from a soft well and that your water works upped
the pH with lye or sodium carbonate in order to keep it from corroding
the cities pipes.



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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:37:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Entry Deadline Palmetto State Brewers Open

The deadline for entries for the 2nd Annual Palmetto
State Brewers Open is midnight, April 1, 2000.  All
beers must be registered by hard copy or on-line by
that time.  Shipped beer and checks must be received
by April 4.  Beers being hand carried must be at the
show site by 8:30 AM, April 8 (unless other specific
arrangements have been made).

Info:

http://www.sagecat.com/psbcomp2.htm

Entry on-line:

http://www.sagecat.com/entry.htm

Wanna judge/steward?:

http://www.sagecat.com/judge.htm

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:28:46 -0600
From: "Dan Senne" <dsenne at intertek.net>
Subject: Swagelok Bulkhead Fitting

I'm in the process of converting a Sankey keg into a kettle. I'd like to go
the no-weld route and use a 1/2" NPT brass bulkhead.
I checked out the McMaster-Carr website but could only find them in PVC,
Teflon & Stainless.  For economic reasons I'd like to use brass instead.
Has anyone here used these & know of a company that sells brass bulkheads
online?
Thanks much,
Dan Senne
Collinsville, IL



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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:09:51 EST
From: BsmntBrewr at aol.com
Subject: Mr. Beer in Canada?

Brewers,

I've had a "Mr. Beer" brewer in Canada ask me for info on who sells or ships 
to Canada Mr. Beer supplies.  I haven't stumbled across anyone who does.  Can 
the forrum here offer any help?

Hope you can help.

Brew On!
Bob Bratcher
Roanoke, VA
Star City Brewers Guild
<A HREF="http://hbd.org/starcity">http://hbd.org/starcity</A>


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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:37:27 -0500 (EST)
From: fred_garvin at fan.com
Subject: Fred Garvin's Dirt

Fred Garvin just got his soil analysis 
back.  Fred Garvin is a little 
disappointed.  Fred Garvin asked for 
input on growing better hops.  
Fred Garvin got back instructions how
to grow better raspberries.  

MSU can sure play good basketball (this
year) but following simple instructions 
seems a bit of a stretch.  I already 
grow great raspberries.  My hops are 
decent, but could improve.  Hence the 
request for soil analysis.

Anyway, to shorten this up a bit to 
make room for any reports from the 
Burradoos, I'll post the analysis, 
and see if any dirt guys on the HBD 
feel like helping out.  Although I'm 
sure Alanstein Meeker is also a self 
appointed soil expurt, if he really 
wants to help, he can swing by and 
clean last year leaf clogs from my 
pool filter.

Soil Type:       Clay
pH               7.7
Phosphorous      58 ppm
Potassium        377 ppm
Calcium          3666 ppm
Magnesium        410 ppm
Cation Exchange capacity    22.7

Anyone?  Anyone (but Alan)?

Fred Garvin
Hop Cowboy
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood. MI

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Get free email from CNN Sports Illustrated at http://email.cnnsi.com/


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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:03:35 -0600
From: "Paul Smith" <pksmith_morin at msn.com>
Subject: Yeast - Respiratory Deficient Petite Mutants

Hello all -

I am in the midst of a series of yeast experiments and would like the opinion
of the community.

I have plated up several of Wyeast's British strains, along with one captured
strain of unknown origin.

The "first generation" plating of the captured strain produced, through
dilution technique, a good plate of distinct, white/cream white colonies,
large and healthy, at least from visual morphology.  On replating the most
likely "colonial candidate," however, I am getting what I would term a whole
slough of respiratory deficient petite mutant colonies - the medium is WL
Nutrient, and these second generation plates (with proper dilution technique)
are replete with small, dark green streak-colonies, interspersed with several
well-defined, white, morphologically sound colonies.  With this capture
strain, however, none of the second generation plates have isolated colonies -
all of the seemingly respiratory sufficient colonies are contiguous to and
interspersed throughout the RD streaks.

With each of the Wyeasts I've tried, the yeast colonies have been smallish,
and fail to reduce the brom cresol green of the medium.

Two questions:

I have never attempted to gain a single-cell colony from Wyeast.  Anyone else,
and did you have similar results?

Given that with the capture strain the "healthy" colonies are attached to the
RD streaks, what is the opinion of the community re: gently lifting a bit from
the "healthy" colony, replating, and seeing if a "pure" plate can be obtained?
Or are these colonies pretty much toast, like the RD colonies?

Cheers,

Paul
Paul




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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 01:19:56 EST
From: JSTanker at aol.com
Subject: mash temperatures and yeast attentuation

Being relatively new to all of this, I have a question - actually two 
questions:

1.  As I understand it, a higher mash temperature will yield a less 
fermentable wort, will it therefore produce a "sweeter" beer ?

2.  If I use a yeast which is less attenuative, will it produce a "sweeter" 
beer ?

3.  If I use a less attenuative yeast (ie Wyeast 1968) and also raise the 
mash temperature (say from 150 to 155), is it possible that the effects of 
both these changes may overshoot a set goal and cause a beer to be too 
"sweet" ?

4.  So, if I were going to attempt a recipe for Bass Ale which called for 
invert sugar, but did not give specifications for mash temp or yeast type, 
would using all three variables be over kill for this particular beer ?

Sorry - that was four questions - just trying to put all this together.

Thanks, Jerry (personal e-mails ok)


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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 01:07:54 -0800
From: "scott" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com>
Subject: windscreens for burner

Mine is really high Tech:  Coffee cans!  Work great, and the price was
perfect.

Scott
Richland, Wa.
http://homebrewery.homestead.com/homebrewery.html



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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:21:56 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: amylase enzymes, Principles of BS, gelatinization, Iron

Brewsters:

Jim Dunlap likes fungal amylase additions to drop his FG by 10%. Since you
asked, the enzyme addition does not obey the now defunct "Purity  Law" and
I wouldn't like to have it running around in my beer willy nilly. Jim, if
you want a lower FG,  why not just change your temperature profile on your
mash to holding at a lower saccharification temperaure? Or if you are using
extracts, just add some diastatic malt extract and hold your brew at 150F
for 30 minutes or so.

This way at least these enzymes are denatured during the boil and the beer
is stable. Not so, the way you are using the fungal amylase added to your
beer. Also I have read , although hard  for me to believe, that allergic
reactions have been experienced with this fungal amylase enzyme. I wouldn't
give your beer with this amylase added to persons with mold allergies.
- -------------------------------
Thanks to Alan Meeker for a detailed critique of George Fix's second
edition of Principles of BS.

But, Alan,  did you like the book?  {8^)
- -------------------------------
Marc,  I and a lot of professional brewers ( including Bud of olden times )
agree with Jeff. The addition of malt to rice followed by a heatup does in
fact generate a more liqiuid "goods" mash whether or not we understand it..
I suspect the malt is there to saccharify the surface starch which results
from the milling and prevent sticking to the kettle. But, don't forget
there are lots of other enzymes besides amyalses in the malt

I have a slightly different technique in which I take the milled rice chips
slurried in water and bring them to a boil, when they get thick I add water
to 150F and then add the malt and allow it to sit for a while and then back
to the boil. I get excellent liquefaction and a low viscosity slurry. This
helps resolve the gelatinization issue for me. I also get excellent
extraction rates this way.
- -----------------------------
I always imagined "Iron City" was boiled in iron vessels. I can still taste
that horrible stuff! 

I remember a poorly defined chemically, ancient German process black dye
called "nigrosine" made by a former employer in which the iron kettle was
part of the reaction! It had been made this way since the early 1900s by
this process which, I believe,  was stolen, er borrowed,  from the Germans
when the first world war broke out.  Each year the kettle wall thickness
was micced and when needed it was replaced.

Process "Modernization" in the mid-1970s in which iron was added as part of
the process, produced a product which self-combusted days after being
produced and bagged out. Imagine the surprise of that truck driver crossing
Ohio when he looked back and saw his truck on fire. But,  but it was just
dye! Turns out this new process produced microfine iron precipitated on the
organic dye particle which oxidized and built up heat to the point of
self-combustion. You never know exactly why a certain complicated process
works and what will happen if you make changes. Same with brewing
processes. Change, but do it slowly.  
- -----------------------------
Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:44:07 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Iron Clad Arguments

A few "corrective" comments:

Haemochromatosis (or, "bronze diabetes") is quite a "rare" disorder.  It
may be "common" relative to other genetic metabolic disorders, but is
still rare enough that I've yet to see one (and I see lots of weird stuff).

Fortunately it will soon be a thing of the past. Not because of any
genetic engineering, but because of the soon to be released book
:"Dieting: New and Original Thoughts on Human Physiology and
Metabolism", by Dr. Dave Burley.

As to the individual who wrote:

> 
> As I understand, iron is a surplus in most of the USA 
> population and we do not need the iron supplements the 
> food industry pushed on us in the last 40-50 years.

It is obvious HE has not now, nor has ever previously, menstruated!

Speaking from experience, roughly half the population is dropping iron
in their pants 4 or 5 days of every month, which without a well balanced
diet (chips and fries just won't do it) can easily lead to
 "iron deficit spending".

Of course we usually ignore that half of the population's needs, and I
vote that we do it once again.

One advantage of not iron substituting women, is that iron deficient
anemia can lead to a quite "amusing" condition called "Pica Syndrome".

These individuals get "specific eating fetishes". Many will binge eat
corn starch, for example. One woman confided to me, that she snuck out
of the house at night, and ate sand at a gravel quarry. I've even heard
of one who ate Steve A's boiled kraut... but I remain skeptical.

And what does this have do with beer?

Not a thing.

Why do we discuss it and present misinformation?

Beats me.

Lynne O'Connor presented some very nice general information about
hopping routines in Czecho.  Her information is correct, but is more a
general guideline than covering the range of what is actually done.

I'll get back to that, just as soon as I change my pad.

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:07:08 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Czech Hopping

Lynne O'Connor presented a nice summary of Czech hopping.

I would add some of my own thoughts and experiences:

Instead of using the time descriptions, I will use the terms I do.

Lynne mentioned three hoppings. One before the boil (I call "clearing
hops"), one after the boil ("bittering hops"), 20 minutes before the end
of boil ("flavour hops"), and omitted a fourth added after boil ("aroma hops").

Clearing hops are indeed used, added while the lauter is collected.  If
this is the same as "first wort hopping" or not, I haven't a clue. If
indeed "first wort hopping" has magical qualities, I have no idea either.

My experience is that clearing hops are the only ones that you can
substitute for Saaz with impunity.

I usually use "Northern Brewer" here, because none of the hop character
comes through. I've flopped back and forth there many times, and just
can't tell the difference.  I am guessing that what is happening, is
that there is quite a bit of "flavour components" (<- like that
scienterriffic term?), that are becoming break material.  What is
obvious, is that the break starts forming quicker, and the boil becomes
much more manageable, if running at near capacity for your kettle.

The only time I have had a clearing hop show its face, is when I've
tried Target.  I'm pretty sure that the reason is the high alpha, and I
did this since I've quit weighing hops. I now use pre weighed vacuum
packed things, and dose by "integers", and am loathe to cut bits off (I
am such a lazy sod).I didn't "Alpha balance" too darn carefully, and I
think exceeded "break".

If you are using the same hop for clearing and bitter, then I think from
a flavour vantage, it matters "squat all" whether you choose to add
before boil or not. It will affect your break formation, and keep it
from "kicking" so hard at boil, and of course if you mix hops at bitter
time, the wort has no way of choosing which one it will "break dance"
with, and which it will continue to "waltz" with for months.

I might add, that I have no basis for my beliefs in why it works like
this (I'm just guessing), but just know "that's the way it works".

Bittering hops are quite another story, and if you add other than Saaz
here, you will know it.  By all means, do not shy from doing it (One
Czech beer I liked EXTREMELY well, added a touch of Perle here, and
added a very nice "bite"), just so you realize that it will come through.

Lynne cited 20 minutes for flavour hops, and that is fairly standard. 
It is worth knowing that some breweries move that "quite a bit" closer
to the end.  Divulging exact times and products would be a breach of
confidentiality, I think. Again, play at risk here.  I happen to like a
"hair of Hallertauer" on top of the Saaz.  Totally non-traditional, but
tasty as hell.

Many Czech brewers will INSIST that an aroma hop addition is necessary,
albeit only about 2.5 percent of the total. I feel this was of greater
importance when they "crash cooled" by "dumping on the floor" (Ed. note:
My technical term).  As long as you understand the principle of
"volatiles"... that they are flying off in the air in every direction,
you can compensate for this any way you want to I expect, and if you are
cooling slowly, I'd expect you'll have to.

Lynne cited the three hoppings as "roughly equal". This is a truth with
very much modification, and gives much of the character of the
individual beer.

I TRULY hope this helps, as the world need's more of those kinds of beers.

Dr. Pivo

P.S. Steve is a "nerd", Alan is a "whimp", George is a "dolt"; and Dave
is a "narcissistic personality disorder". ;-) (I think a "smiley" means
you "take it all back", but I don't want folks thinking I'm going "soft").


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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:16:59 -0600
From: Kelly <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: How many pounds?

This is a little off topic, but, I'm about to make a mead.  A friend
that raises bee's has given me quite a bit of honey.  The honey is in
quart jars.  Can someone tell me how many pounds of honey a quart jar
holds?  Most of my recipes call for x number of punds of honey, and I
don't know how many pounds are in a quart jar....

TIA!!

Kelly
New Orleans, LA



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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 13:05:07 -0500
From: "Murray, Eric" <emurray at sud-chemieinc.com>
Subject: AC motor speed

Patrick writes
the other solution is simply to reduce the speed of the motor. I don't
know if this is possible. clearly it's possible to reduce the current
going to an AC appliance such as a light using a dimmer (rheostat I
guess). however, I don't know if this applies to a motor or not.

Pat, what you need is a simple potentiometer, or pot for short. It is a
variable resistor that you can simply put into the circuit with the motor,
in series from the AC power source. You can find one at any electronics
supply store. Just put the pot inline on one side of your ac power source.
Make sure you get a pot that is rated for the voltage and the amperage of
the motor that you are using. A potentiometer can generate quite a bit of
heat, since it is a resistor on an AC circuit. One of the guys at an
electronics supply store should not have any problem helping you pick out
one that is heavy duty enough. I would stay away from the pulley idea
however,, to much work, and not very adjustable.

hope this helps

Eric Murray



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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:31:08 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: parti-gyle

I do this all the time.  It's a wonderful way to get two different beers
from one session.  I pinched my ideas from Lou Bonham's pieces in
Brewing Techniques.

I double the recipe that I want to make, in order to make a strong beer
and a weaker one.  Pull off five gallons of strong beer, then add six
gallons of 172F sparge water.  Drain off all the water.  I usually
exchange one gallon from each batch (i.e. put a gallon of the weak wort
in the strong wort and vice versa).  It's a simple explanation, but
Lou's original article in BT covers the basics.

I've done this and brewed the following pairs:  barleywine/pale ale,
Imperial pilsener/CAP, and Imperial stout/"regular" stout.  Works great.

 -Marc



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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:10:51 GMT
From: numberone at freedombird.net (Elizabeth Blades)
Subject: Cider

Hi,

Nigel wrote in reply to someone:-



"Agreed that ciders vary in their clarity, but there are some that are 
definitly murky - not necessarily at fault though."

According to a commercial cider maker I know(and Nigel knows him as 
well)some of the murkiness is caused by the addition of orange juice to the 
finished product.

Ok I don't understand this obsession with clarity,why do you think people 
drank out of pewter tankards?

We'd do better to stop drinking with our eyes and start using out senses of 
smell and taste.

Cheers

Liz

- --

"Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel.  True, and they
have many other fine qualities as well." --Missy Dizick










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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:04:52 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Questions about types of sugar for Belgian Ales

I understand there are (at least) three possibilities for the sugar used in
Belgian ales.  Table sugar, corn sugar, and sugar crystals.

How do the three rank for:
1) Flavor effects,
2) Points per Pound 
3) Other factors

Thanks in advance.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY

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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:35:11 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Mill motorizing

Patrick,

I posted the following information a few months ago in response to a
similar question.

Start of old reply:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just motorized my homemade mill this weekend.  Here are the details:

Motor (salvaged from I don't remember what):
     Dayton 5K-045
     115V, 1500 RPM, 3.4 Amps, 1/10 hp, 60 cycle.

Motor pulley: 1.5 inch diameter

Roller pulley: 10 inch diameter

Belt:
     Service King 4L350
     1/2 x 35 FHP

Roller diameter: 1.68"

It worked quite well.  The motor doesn't have a lot of starting torque so
sometimes, with the hopper full, I have to "bump" the big pulley to get it
started.  It doesn't slip however.  The belt tension is just the weight of
the motor.

You might need the roller diameter to get an idea of the tangential
velocity of the grain at the crush point.

Good Luck.
____________________________________________________________________________



Now to your questions.


>the other solution is simply to reduce the speed of the motor. i don't
>know if this is possible. clearly it's possible to reduce the current
>going to an AC appliance such as a light using a dimmer (rheostat i
>guess). however, i don't know if this applies to a motor or not.>>

Not a rheostat.  With a rheostat, the power you don't use must be consumed
by the rheostat.  The dimmers control the energy by reducing the duty cycle
of the current.

>so, is it possible to reduce the speed of this motor? will a simple
>rheostat do the trick?

Well, I wouldn't do it because, in general, it will overheat or stall the
motor.  In your case however, you have a lot of extra power so you might
just get away with it.  The old timer's rule is a motor is running at rated
temperature if, when you put your hand on it, the first instinct is to pull
it back.  However, if you can actually keep your hand on the motor, it is
OK.

The classic way to control the speed of an AC motor is change the frequency
of the power, lower frequency=lower speed.  Not easy to do unless you have
an old audio amplifier with an output power of 400 watts or so.  Of course
you would need a frequency response down to, maybe, 6Hz. I can't think of a
source for something like that. 

>also, if anyone knows of a good source for pullies in Toronto, i'd
>love to hear about them.


I'm in the Buffalo area.  Sears has a chain of Sears Hardware stores.  They
carried the belt and smaller pulley.  The largest pulley they had was 9
inches.  I would have used that except another local hardware store had the
10 inch version.  Both were by the same manufacturer.  I think the larger
pulley cost about $12 (US).

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:18:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "Joe O'Meara" <drumthumper_2000 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AC motors

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:01:08 -0500 (EST)
From: patrick finerty <zinc at zifi.psf.sickkids.on.ca>
Subject: AC motor speed regulation
~snip~
the other solution is simply to reduce the speed of
the motor. i don't
know if this is possible. clearly it's possible to
reduce the current
going to an AC appliance such as a light using a
dimmer (rheostat i
guess). however, i don't know if this applies to a
motor or not.
~snip~

You might be able to use a Variac, but I don't really
know if they will drop the current enough.

Joe

=====
Joe O'Meara
Mad Dwarf Brewery (AKA my kitchen and coat closet)
ICQ # 60722006
http://homebrew.4mg.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:44:21 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: mashout?

Joe says ..

>>The primary reason would be to denature the enzyme system and fix
>>the [RDF]
 ..
> Might this effect be overstated, [...] ?

Yes.   In my experience the small amount of beta-amylase after the
mash doesn''t cause a big shift in RDF before the boiler. You can
achieve even extreme unfermentability  w/o mashout.

>>Secondly: mash out, for some as yet undefined reason,
>>enhances head retention.

My no-mashout beers suffer no unique head issues at all
 I didn't find that they were superior or inferior to well made
mash-out beers in any way.

> Another reason I've heard is to break down dextrins and make the
> lauter run more smoothly.

Big dextrans do have much higher viscosity than simple sugars
solutions, but the impact is minor considering the very small amounts
of ever larger(more viscous) dextrans.  Also consider that the MO is
responsible for creating much of the late starch and big dextran
content.

=== === ===
In Del's (apologies if I referred to you as Nat) post:

>The anecdotal evidence of only a few points of efficiency variation
>points to this, compare 1 lb dextrose in a gallon of water =1.036 vs
>1 lb sucrose in 1 gallon=1.044, same percent solution, lower specific
>gravity with shorter chain sugars.

Both of the figures above are very wrong Del. Tables show that 1 pound
of stuff in a gallon of solution at 20C gives:

dextrose(glucose) SG = 1.0435
Fructose SG=1.0465
sucrose  SG=1.0461  (see AJ's 1.04622 note in HBD 3205).
maltose  SG=1.0461
dextran (avg weight 420 glucose units) SG=1.0438
There is no relationship for SG versus sugar molecule size.

You seem to be confusing 1gal of solution containing 1# of stuff
(typical brewing measure) vs 1# of stuff added to 1gal of water.

Your argument that I have only a few data points (like 11)
is right, but since you haven't tried it or read of referable
experiments you have no basis for comparison. As for being
anecdotal -  I performed 11 experimental no-mashout brews,
recording the data and comparing the results. There was nothing
incidental or anecdotal about these observations.

>Not a problem if you brewed light bodied beers but for a beer with
>some body you want to [...]

Dextrins are important in several beer styles, but they are not the sole
and arguably not even the primary determinant of body.

>keep the temperature up to prevent reentering the beta
>amylase range of activity. B amylase does remain active long past
>"laboratory findings" oft cited.

No literature or experiment anywhere suggests
that lowering temps can increase BA activity again.  The thermal
denaturing of malt BA is irreversible and the specific activity is
monotonically increasing with temperature.

>Read about the effects of calcium on enzyme stability.

I have, in detail, and I've even reported on it here.
Calcium has a major impact on one isozyme of ALPHA-amylase
Calcium has been shown to stabilize MICROBIAL beta-amylase,
but I've never seen a report on grain BA stabilization with
calcium - it is possible tho. If it is a grain BA cofactor then
it is most likely to be effective at a few ppm, (equimolar conc w/
enzyme) It's the nature of the multivalent ion enzyme stabilization.

>Secondly: mash out, for some as yet undefined reason,
>enhances head retention.

I find your claim to be unfettered by supporting facts.   I have
11 well recorded no-mashout brews which contradict this
statement.  What did you read or brew that leads you to this  ?

>Possibilities are suggested of the formation of
>glyco-protein complexes that are foam positive.

Suggested by whom ?  Hydrophobic glycosylates
of oligopeptides are implicated in foam.  I have
*never* seen a source claiming these result from
mashout, but would love to hear about this source.

>Thirdly: there are the time
>and energy factors, after finishing a mash I'd like to save time and get up
>to a boil as quick as possible, it is much quicker getting to a boil from
>.170 than 140, and it saves gas, about  40%.

It cannot "save" energy since you expend even more energy when you
boosted the mash + grist.  It also can't save you TIME unless you ignore
the mashout boost and rest time.

>So do a mash out at 170, it will stabilize the results of your mash
>temperature program and probably improve foam stability.

Better yet, try no-mashout as I have and prove to yourself that it
has very little impact on the beer flavor or head or attenuation  -
just a drop in extraction.

===

Some facts (for a change):

In EBC XII, Tuborg brewery reported on test mashes.  Proctor malt,
mash-in 30' at 126F, boost to 145.4F for 60' then boost to mashout
172.4F for 10 minutes.   All boosts at 2C/min rate.  Wort sampled
at 10' intervals and enzymatic action was prevented in the samples.

The mashtun wort BEFORE the boost to mashout  contained 96% of
the extract as after the mashout.

Detailed carbo assays were performed and the pre-mashout wort
was evaluated as 70.5% attenuable vs  70.3% after mashout.

To encapsulate my interpretation ...  Mashout buys an extra
3-5% extraction, costs 50 minutes, and results in a very minor
decline (~0.2%) in fermentable extract of the wort.

- --
I don't mind at all that you disagree Del, It's always the most
interesting part, but I do greatly mind that you refuse to offer
any support for your POV.  "Del sez so",  just isn't the basis
for an interesting or productive discussion.

EBC XII, pp205-221, B.S.Envoldsen
JIB v97, pp85-92, R.Muller


 -S




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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 06:55:12 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re- mash-out

Dave said,>>Del, just to be clear, I am not attacking you personally <<
  I understand that, and wouldn't take it personally anyhow. But besides
you pretty well support my conclusions about mash out anyway...that it does
help and we shouldn't skip it as Steve suggested.
>>1) One is to
improve the efficiency of the mash by utilizing as much of the available
starch ( perhaps because it has a different gelatinization temperature and
needs a higher temp to get solubilized)  as can be extracted in the time
limits of the mash, 2) decrease the lauter viscosity to improve the rate of
extraction, 3) knock out beta amylase to stabilize the attenuation of the
wort and 4) denature other enzymes such as beta glucanases - which can
affect lauter viscosity, clarity of the beer and efficiency. <<
      
At least till number four, wouldn't you expect that more glucanase activity
would _help_lauter efficiency?

>>Monitoring the pH is a good idea
just to be sure you are not extracting tannins, but it is not a good method
to ensure extraction efficiency as Del suggests.<<

I think I was referring only to tannin extraction, stop before you extract
(excessive) tannins and the efficiency falls where it may. 


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