---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  MCAB Winners ("Louis K. Bonham")
  Harvesting Yeast (Bob Landry)
  starch ("Alan Meeker")
  calcium stabilization ("Alan Meeker")
  MCAB II (Harlan Bauer)
  decarbonating barleywine ("Alan Meeker")
  jockey box chiller (J Daoust)
  [Fwd: Re: starch] (Marc Sedam)
  barley beta-amylase (Marc Sedam)
  Motor info/brewpubs in LV ("Costanza, David")
  Coordinates (Joel Plutchak)
  POE,OPE,EOP,EPO... (Epic8383)
  Re: Mostly Water (Jeff Renner)
  Re: POBS II (part 5) (Acetaldehyde) (Jeff Renner)
  MCAB II (Some Guy)
  FWH /Diacetyl in Czech beers ("St. Patrick's")
  Cleaning Taps and Lines ("Troy Hager")
  Eau de vie yeast (Marc Sedam)
  Re: brewing book ("John J. Allison")
  Mr Beer 5 gallon kits (Brian Myers)
  FWH/hot break (Bob McDonald)
  burners and kegs ("Dan Senne")
  Champagne corks ("Sebastian Padilla")
  milk and scotch (AlannnnT)
  Wow lots of HBD#3282 (James Jerome)
  MCAB2 Thanks ("Bill Dameron")
  MCAB II (Bob Wilcox)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entries for the 18th Annual HOPS competition are due 3/24-4/2/00 
* See http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/ for more information

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:05:03 -0600
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at hypercon.com>
Subject: MCAB Winners

Hi folks:

A great time was had by all in St. Louis this weekend at MCAB II (I'll post
a more thorough recap later), but so that we get the winners list out ASAP,
here are the winners of MCAB II:

1. Classic American/Pre Prohibition (BJCP 1D)
First Place Dave Sapsis, Bay Area Mashers
Second Place Curt Hausam, Oregon Brew Crew
Third Place George Fix, Texas Brewers Association

2. Czech/Bohemian Pilsner (BJCP 2A)
First Place Jerry Scheel, St. Louis Brews
Second Place  Ted,Hausotter, Strange Brew
Third Place George Fix, Texas Brewers Association

3. Kolsch (BJCP 3D)
First Place Jim Layton, North Texas Homebrewers Association
Second Place Mike Riddle, Homebrewers of Marin and Elsewhere
Third Place John Tyler, Toronto, Ont.

4. Strong Bitter (BJCP 4C)
First Place Roger Whyman, Unfermentables
Second Place Brian Cole, Mountain Ale and Lager Tasters
Third Place Steven Olson & Donna Norby-Olson, Society of Oshkosh Brewers

5. Strong & Scottish Ales, Strong Scotch Ale (BJCP 5, 11B)
First Place Donald Sajda, Kukendahl Grain Brewers
Second Place Curt Hausam, Oregon Brew Crew
Third Place Jim Layton, North Texas Homebrewers Association

6. American Pale Ale (BJCP 6B)
First Place John Childs, Lynnwood, WA (repeat MCAB winner!)
Second Place David McMullen, Bay Area Mashers
Third Place Ken Brown, Freemont, CA

7. California Common/Steam (BJCP 6C)
First Place Dean Fikar, Cowtown Cappers
Second Place Mike Riddle, Homebrewers of Marin and Elsewhere
Third Place Dan Diana, Portland, OR

8. India Pale Ale (BJCP 7)
First Place Roger Whyman, Unfermentables
Second Place Jim Boudreaux & Ed Boudreaux, Dead Yeast Society
Third Place Joe Formanek, BUZZ (Ill.)

9. Vienna (BJCP 9B)
First Place Scott Boeke, North Agusta, SC
Second Place Mike Porter, Kansas City Bier Meisters
Third Place Mark Norbury, Capitol Brewers

10. American Brown (BJCP 10D)
First Place Joe Formanek, BUZZ (Ill.)
Second Place David McMullen, Bay Area Mashers
Third Place Steve Capo & Charles Vallenrat, Foam Rangers

11. Barleywine (BJCP 11D)
First Place Tom Wolf, Maltose Falcons
Second Place Ron Thomas, Capitol Brewers
Third Place Len Lemieux, Boston Wort Processors / South Shore

12. Imperial Stout (BJCP 11C)
First Place Mike Riddle, Homebrewers of Marin and Elsewhere
Second Place Steve Capo & Charles Vallenrat, Foam Rangers
Third Place Jim Wagner, Pasadena, MD

13. European Dark Lager (BJCP 12)
First Place Mike Riddle & Dan Hagewiesche, Homebrewers of Marin and
Elsewhere
Second Place Ed Miles, Pint & Pummel
Third Place Brian Cole, Mountain Ale and Lager Tasters

14. Hellesbock/Maibock (BJCP 13B)
First Place Rick Georgette, West Bloomfield, MI
Second Place Scott Keohane, Boston Wort Processors
Third Place Brett Schneider, Boston Wort Processors

15. Robust Porter (BJCP 14A)
First Place Mike Porter,Kansas City Bier Meisters (repeat MCAB winner!)
Second Place Jay Adams, Brewers United for Real Potables
Third Place Ron Thomas, Capitol Brewers

16. Sweet Stout (BJCP 15A)
First Place Pat Bannon, Jeffersonville, PA
Second Place Dan Hagewiesche, Homebrewers of Marin and Elsewhere
Third Place Joe Lindsey, Foam Rangers

17. Strong Belgian & French Ales (BJCP 17)
First Place Bob Kepler & Betsy Kliks, BURP
Second Place Curt Hausam, Oregon Brew Crew
Third Place Scott Boeke, North Agusta, SC

18. Lambic (BJCP 18B)
First Place Francois Espourtieille, South Shore Brew Club (repeat MCAB
winner!)
Second Place Tom Wolf, Maltose Falcons
Third Place Jay Adams, Brewers United for Real Potables


Best of Show Finalists:
Dave Sapsis (Pre-Pro)
Roger Whyman (IPA)
Tom Wolf (Barleywine)
Mike Porter (Porter)
Pat Bannon (Sweet Stout)
Francois Espourtieille (Lambic)

Best of Show
Old Smokey Barleywine
Tom Wolf
Valencia, CA
Maltose Falcons

Category Trophies Provided by Anheuser-Busch Inc.
BOS Finalist Prizes Provided by Pico Brewing Systems
BOS Trophy Provided by Lallemand Inc.

Qualifying Style Prizes Provided by:
Brewing News
Briess Malting Co.
Crosby and Baker, Ltd.
Home Wine and Beer Trade Association
HopUnion USA
Schreier Malting Co.
Vinotheque
White Labs
Wyeast Laboratories

Congrats to all the winners -- and thanks to all involved in making MCAB II
a great success, especially Bob Boland and the St. Louis Brews!

Louis K. Bonham
Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:35:35 -0700
From: Bob Landry <utahbob at jps.net>
Subject: Harvesting Yeast

Having just finished my first brew using a built up starter, I find
myself looking at a primary fermenter with about an inch of yeast bed
and wondering how (or if) to save it to repitch.

Is it necessary to separate the yeast from the trub (grain and hop
particles mostly)?
How should the yeast be stored? Refrigerated or frozen? Should it be fed
before storage? How long can it be kept before reuse? Any printed or
'Net sources for this info and more/

I don't really want to get into culturing yet, but the idea of
propagating and reusing a living resource really appeals to me. Not to
mention saving a few bucks on fresh yeast with every brew.

Does this sound like false economy? I look forward to reading any
responses.

Bob Landry
PS- I'd like to meet the person who can activate a Wyeast packet by
"smacking" it between his/her palms. I had to squeeze mine like a wrist
exerciser to pop that bubble!


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:28:52 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: starch 

"Jeff, I'm not sure that the granules are ruptured much in
milling.  In fact, most milling (especially corn) is
designed specifically to avoid rupturing the granules."
- --- --- --- --- ---
This appears to be correct. The starch granules are pretty small - ca 5-10uM
in diameter for barley and wheat, somewhat larger for corn (2-25uM) thus
it's hard to see how much damage would come about due to milling at the 1mm
level.

Isolation of starch involves a wet milling process followed by grinding,
slurrying, and sieving till the preparation of intact granules is free of
water.

The granules themselves are pretty interesting. They're semicrystalline,
having a concentric shell structure, like an onion. There are both
crystalline as well as amorphous zones with some evidence that the
crystalline zones are mostly amylopectin.

HTH

 -Alan Meeker
 Baltimore, MD




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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:56:23 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: calcium stabilization

Steve writes:

"I have, in detail, and I've even reported on it here.
Calcium has a major impact on one isozyme of ALPHA-amylase
Calcium has been shown to stabilize MICROBIAL beta-amylase,
but I've never seen a report on grain BA stabilization with
calcium - it is possible tho. If it is a grain BA cofactor then
it is most likely to be effective at a few ppm, (equimolar conc w/
enzyme) It's the nature of the multivalent ion enzyme stabilization."

Steve, barley alpha amylase is indeed stabilized by calcium and it is also
required for enzymatic activity. Interestingly enough, it does not seem to
play a direct role in the catalytic mechanism, rather it appears to act by
maintaining the active site of the enzyme in the correct conformation.

Beta amylase does not have any requirements for cofactors or metals (thanks
to Marc Sedam for pointing out to me that I made too sweeping a statement on
this point in my criticism of Fix's book, I meant to refer only to the alpha
amylase).

 -Alan Meeker
 Baltimore, MD




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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:08:02 -0600
From: Harlan Bauer <blacksab at midwest.net>
Subject: MCAB II

MCAB II was an enormous success and the St. Louis Brews should be
commended for doing and absolutely spectacular job of organizing the
event. I had a GREAT time!

Special thanks should go out to Bob Boland, John Sullivan and Mark Naski
for making it look easy. And for all the club members who brewed beer
for the event and helped iron out the multitude of details, we should
all raise a glass for a toast in their honor. Their beers were
fantastic--each one better than the next.

Thank you for a wonderful weekend and for those of you who could not
attend, you really missed something special. The St. Louis Brews are an
asset to both their city and to the homebrewing community. 

More later,

Harlan Bauer
Copper Dragon Brewing Co. 
Carbondale, IL


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:04:41 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: decarbonating barleywine

 Bill Bunning asks about an overcarbinated BW:

"I was wondering if I could pop the top to relieve some of the pressure
and then recap.  Will it affect the beer much?  I figure the headspace would
be fine since it would be filling up with carbon dioxide."

I dunno Bill, some amount of oxygen will probably get into the headspace.
Enough to do damage? Hard to say. Also, how are you going to know how long
to let the decapped bottles sit before re-capping? Wouldn't it be better to
let it lose some of this excess CO2 just before you drink it  - either after
opening or after pouring?

 -Alan





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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:16:13 -0800
From: J Daoust <thedaousts at ixpres.com>
Subject: jockey box chiller

When making a chiller for a jockey box, is it imperative that I use a
Stainless Coil? I know copper conducts Heat/cold much better, will it
(copper) give me a metallic taste?  Also, anybody know of a good source
for Stainless tubing?
Thanks, in advance. Jerry Daoust  Private e-mail is ok


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:18:03 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: starch]

Seems like there may be some interest in my last missive to
Jeff on the subject of cereal mashes.  Here 'tis.  I hope
the formatting is OK.

 -Marc

- -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: starch
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:30:01 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Organization: OTD
To: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
References: <v03007805b5012f83011e at [207.75.177.93]>

Two quick answers, followed by a series of MUCH longer
ones:  (1)yes--it does
make you a librarian, and (2) yes, I know about Ph.D.'s in
cereal science.
You're looking at a former member of the American
Association of Cereal
Chemists! (Hold the applause and gasps of amazement for
later.)  I was a food
scientist in a former life and came mighty close to calling
that a profession.
I still have dreams of getting my Ph.D. in fermentation
science from Oregon
State University--a branch of their Food Science program

Well, we're both right.  There are processes for both wet
milling and dry
milling corn.  I was thinking primarily of wet milling,
which is precisely how
pure corn starch is refined.  I believe that in dry milling
the starch granules
are damaged, but not to the point of
gelatinization/dispersion.  I doubt a ton
of damage is done when you're milling to achieve coarse
grits, but more would
be done in trying to make polenta (or corn meal).  You
simply can't gelatinize
a granule in the absence of water without extreme heat
and/or pressure.  
Disrupt?  Yes.  Gelatinize?  No.  What
likely happens is that the disrupted  granule provides
cracks (pores, whatever
you want to call them) where the enzymes can access some of
the native starch
in the presence of water.

Pure corn starch does get thicker as you boil, but the peak
viscosity is not
the final viscosity.  The true peak viscosity occurs when
the granules suck up
the water just before dispersion.  It's easily measured in a
Brabender
viscometer, but lacking one you'll have to trust me.  Your
reference to the
rice cooking is spot on.  All starch granules first swell,
then gelatinize,
then liquefy from the release of the water which took part
in the swelling of
the granules.  The charts are in my lab book somewhere,
getting dust in the
corporate library.  Flames from offended scientists are
welcome, as are
experiments if you have access to a Brabender or a
differential scanning
calorimeter (DSC).  In the cereal mash, the enzymes work at
high temps...they
just don't last very long there.  This is a concept that Del
Lansing (I think)
has been floating to the Digest recently.

The sweetness and improved fluidity of corn/rice mashes is
absolutely from the
breakdown of starches both via enzymic attack and
gelatinization.  No argument
here.  It's just that the breakdown comes from the gradual
gelatinization of
*some* of the starches in both your barley and adjunct. 
Most of the real
gelatinization comes when you boil the mash.  If you just
added the cereal mash
back to the main mash after the main mash is through with
the saccharification
rests, you'll get one dandy starch haze in the finished
product.  I should
know--this exact thing happened to me with my first CAP I
told you about a few
months back.  That's why you need to add back the cereal
mash during an amylase
rest.

To summarize, it's my opinion and experience that
"gelatinization" of starch
granules does not occur to a meaningful extent in dry
milling of rice or corn
kernels.  The granules are likely disrupted and this
disruption provides some
access to the starch chains for the amylases, but only in
the presence of
water.  The addition of barley in the cereal mash is to
promote a small amount
of enzymatic degradation to lower the overall viscosity of
the mash.  As the
boiling temperature is approached, more damaged granules
gelatinize and are
rapidly attacked by the enzymes at the same time the enzymes
are being
deactivated by the extreme heat.  Through this method,
complete gelatinization
(but not enzymic breakdown) of the starch via boiling can
occur without having
a nightmare viscosity on your hands.  It also avoids the
need to keep the
cereal mash boiling at all times to avoid retrogradation of
the non-digested
starch.

WHEW!  I don't know whether this makes me a librarian or
just plain boring.
I'll settle for boring since I've gone via experience, not
recitations.  Maybe
I'M Pivo?  <insert evil laugh here>

Cheers!
Marc

P.S.  If you think the rest of the HBD would benefit, I'll
post this.  I didn't
want to clog bandwith.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:32:06 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: barley beta-amylase

Barley beta-amylase does not require calcium as a cofactor.
Back in tha' day, I used quite a bit of purified BBA at
work, and the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) provided by
the supplier did not mention cofactors at all.  If you
search the Sigma catalog for BBA, you can get the
appropriate forms.

 -Marc



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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:38:02 -0500
From: "Costanza, David" <dcstanza at occ.pasen.gov>
Subject: Motor info/brewpubs in LV

  Paul and Richard gave excellent advice in regards to AC motors and
controls - they are both right on the mark. I think my sig line would be
appropriate here.

  Next week I will be in Las Vegas for a work-related conference and would
appreciate recommendations for brewpubs in the area. My free time may be a
bit limited, so I'll probably just try to get to the best ones. Private
e-mail is fine.

  Thanks!


  Dave Costanza
  "Nothing is simple anymore, with the exception of most of the people we
work for [or with; your choice]"


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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:43:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Coordinates


In HBD #3281,Mark Bayer chides me:
>>Brewin' and computin' in south-central Illinois

>don't you mean east-central illinois? are you from the chicago
>area? i ask only because while i attended uiuc, chicago area
>natives commonly shared the belief that champaign was "southern"
>illinois. of course, those of us who came "up" to champaign (from
>egypt) believed we were surely within sight of santa's dwelling.

   I was as surprised as you to find out I'm not in east-central
Illinois.  I think when I wrote that my brain was already headed
south (just a bit) to MCAB.

   Speaking of which is was nice to talk to you, and to put some
more faces to the names of HBD, rcb, etc.  Pat Babcock, the face
in the JanitorCam, is indeed not only real but exists in three
dimensions, and not once but twice I was close enough to (0,0,0)
Rennerian to make Jeff uncomfortable. :-)
   I'd comment about all the great homebrew to be had there, but
I'm sure I'd not only not do it justice, but would leave out
something or somebody.  Suffice it to say the the St. Louis
Brews did a wonderful job with the conference and competition.
- --
Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu>

Brewin' and slowly getting back onto the computin' mindset
somewhere in Flatlandia.



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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:03:55 EST
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: POE,OPE,EOP,EPO...

      Dear HBD,
   Yesterday, I recieved 13 copies of  the Homebrew Digest. Surreptitiously 
included in each was a post regarding flouridation of our drinking water. 
This is how your hard core commies work. I have sent the wing to bomb 
Anheuser-Busch. I suggest you order a total commitment of our remaining 
forces at this time. May God help us in our quest to brew pure water beer.
      In the purity of essence of our bodily fluids,
          Commander  StrangeYeast   


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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:21:44 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Mostly Water

"A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> wrote:

>Beer will be
>ruined at 0.1 mg/L so we want to get the iron level below that.

You and others have often written this but how would I see the ruinous
effects of iron?  My well water has around 1 ppm.  When I boil and decant
it prior to brewing pale lagers the precipitate is tan, leading me to
believe that it complexes somehow with the carbonates and other
precipitates and is removed (and years ago a brewer who also taught
chemistry at Grand Valley State U in MI suggested a mechanism for this to
me).  However, for my dark beers I brew with unboiled/decanted water and
they seem to turn out fine, although my dark Munich lagers do sometimes
suddenly oxidize in the keg and taste cardboardy.  Stouts, porters, bitters
and other ales brewed with unboiled water last forever.

Can you elaborate?

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:39:35 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: POBS II (part 5) (Acetaldehyde)

"Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>

>Fix cites Budweiser's apple-like tone as an example of an ester's
>(presumably ethyl hexanoate) contribution to flavor. Every other source I've
>ever seen (including Fix's own AOBT) attributes this characteristic of
>Budweiser as being due to its acetaldehyde content. Indeed, the BJCP study
>guide lists Budweiser as an example of acetaldehyde for taste training.

This latter would appear to be a momily in need of correction.  At MCAB
Steve Michalak of A/B said that they do everything they can to reduce Bud's
acetaldhyde to (I think) two or three ppb, less than any other beers, and
below taste threshold.  He was pretty difininte about this.  I may have the
energy to give a report on the pilot brewery tour we had and other aspects
of MCAB2 after I recover from the great weekend in St. Louis, or perhaps
someone else can.  (Give a report, not recover.  I'll take responsibility
for that myself).

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents



Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:31:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: MCAB II

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Wow! MCAB II has come and gone, and I have a HUGE respect for the St.
Louis Brews as a result! What a feat of organization and execution!!! THe
competition was well and professionally run (even with me as a judge...),
the technical presentations were well organized and interesting, the
location comfortable and easily accessed.... Quite an act to follow with
the 2000 AHA NHC, but I know the crew chasing that rabbit down are up to
the challenge!

My special thanks to Bob Boland, John Sullivan and the entirity of the St.
Louis Brews for making the event one which will set the hurdle for all
such events to come. Bravo!

It was also great putting faces to all of the email addresses - er, names!
- that come across the HBD every day. And meeting those whose writings
I've read in the home brewing press and literature over the years was
truly a hoot (even if Byron and I don't see eye-to-eye on the internet's
role in brewing:-). 

Look for pictures on the MCAB site as soon as they are processed (read:
as soon as I get off my dead butt and put them there...)

PS: For all those that thought I was simply a computer program written by
Karl Lutzen - Ha! You're right! Karl left the portable holographic matter
projector unattended, so I took it for a spin this weekend. (And you all
thought I was carrying a laptop. No! The laptop was carryin' ME!)

-
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."


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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:07:51 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at realtime.net>
Subject: FWH /Diacetyl in Czech beers

Thanks for info on parti-gyle.

Thanks to Jim Busch for info on equipment.   I should add that the
brewery I spent a lot of time at had a closed grant.  On the other hand
and as an example,  Znojmo Hostan has the old traditional long copper
open grant with about 10 goose neck copper feeds from each of the drains
in lauter tun.  These are really beautiful.  I'll put a picture of this
on web page today.

My apologies for not having been more clear about FWH or lack of it in
original post as noted by Jeff Renner and Nathaniel  Lansing.

The first hops were added when the lauter was 1/2 to 2/3 done.  This was
same time the brewer cranked up the heat on kettle.  It took about 45
minutes to finish lauter during which time the  hops were in the wort
as its temperature was being raised from ~75C to boiling. The kettle
started to boil soon after the lauter was finished.  So the first hops
were in hot wort, not boiling, that was ramped from ~77 to 100C in about 45
minutes.

This isn't FWH as it was defined narrowly in that Brauwelt article of
several years back.  The narrow definition of FWH involves moving the last
addition of noble hops to the First Wort where they steep at ~76C for some
time and then are eventually raised to boiling.   additionally, this narrow
definition eliminates the last addition at about 20 minutes before end
of boil.  This addition remained at all czech breweries I visited.

I should also point out that most of the breweries I visited use 2 hour
boils and added this first addition after the boil began, ~30 minutes
into boil.

I didn't ask how many strains at PU so I really
can't answer Jeff Renner's question regarding three strains.

On my previous trip, none of the breweries krausened except for
"problem" beers and one stated problem was excessive diacetyl.  The brewer I
travelled with this time said that some breweries do indeed krausen as a
matter of routine although it is not common.

I detected diacetyl in one pilsner during my trip last summmer (can't
remember if it was Vyskov or Cerna Hora) and Michael noted it as well.

Diacetyl is not a major profile in fresh PU but I cannot overstate the
intensity of the hop flavor of fresh PU, at least 3 years ago.  When I was
back last summer, PU did not have as much hop flavor.

The following description of PU is in MJ's New World Guide "house
character of light fragrant spiciness can become overwhelmingly buttery
if the beer has lain around for too long"

Finally a comment on FWH.  The use of the term FWH is creating some
confusion because it has been too narrowly defined based on the Brauwelt
article.  I would like to see it used to mean simply adding hops to the
first wort.  One could also have middle wort or late wort hopping.  FWH
should not carry any implied meaning of omitting the last addition IMHO.

p.s.  I'm waiting to hear from the gentleman who did the yeast tests at
which time I'll follow up on that.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas
Brewers Supply
1828 Fleischer Drive
Austin, Texas 78728 USA
512-989-9727
www.stpats.com







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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:28:00 +0000
From: "Troy Hager" <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Cleaning Taps and Lines

>From what I have heard and in my personal experience draft systems seem more
prone to infections and developing off flavors than bottling is. I know that
it isn't long at all before my taps get cruddy and sticky and need to be
cleaned.

I am hoping that some of you might share with the collective your tap/line
cleaning schedule and procedures. What cleaners do you use? What is the
frequency. Do you take the taps completely apart every time? Do you use any
type of spray cleaner on use-by-use basis to help keep the bugs out?

Thanks!

Troy


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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:51:33 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Eau de vie yeast

In my continuing effort to clone Samichlaus I've been
focusing on the yeast.  Several people have suggested yeast
and/or methodology which may permit the alcohol content to
approach 14%.  I've been toying with a Samichlaus culture,
but nothing definitive to date.

Saturday, while shopping at the local HB store, I picked up
some literature from Wyeast.  In their *wine* yeast pamphlet
they have an "Eau de Vie" yeast which they claim is (1)
tolerant up to 21% alcohol, and (2) suitable for
barleywines.  Has anyone tried this and/or know its
origins?  I'm willing to give it a whirl for my Sedamichlaus
clone if really is suitable for beer (as opposed to wine,
grappa, distilled spirits, etc.).  I don't know if it's a
distiller's yeast or not.  No attenuation or flocculation
characteristics are given.

 -Marc

- --
Marc Sedam
Technology Development Associate
Office of Technology Development
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105
Chapel Hill, NC  27599-4105

919.966.3929  (phone)
919.962.0646  (fax)
http://www.research.unc.edu/otd




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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:31:42 -0700 (MST)
From: "John J. Allison" <john at joss.ucar.edu>
Subject: Re: brewing book

> I ordered the hornsey book from amazon.com  $50.

Cancel that order! Not only for moral reasons (see noamazon.com
and nowebpatents.org) but because your local bookstore
can probably order it for $35. Exploring the RSC website,
I discovered that their US distributor is Springer-Verlag:

http://www.springer-ny.com/catalog/np/feb00np/0-85404-568-6.html

You can also order online at the link above.

John Allison
john at joss.ucar.edu
Boulder, Colorado

(in secondary: dunkelweizen, just bottled: dry stout,
 in keg: sweet stout, next: tripel)


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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:07:37 +1200
From: Brian Myers <BrianM at AdvantageGroup.co.nz>
Subject: Mr Beer 5 gallon kits

Hi all -

Bob Bratcher asks about Mr Beer distributers in Canada,
and Kim Thomson suggests he step up to a 5 gallon system.

Although I can't help Bob either, I would like to
point out (no affiliation, etc) that Mr Beer does make
(or DID make) an excellent 5 gallon system - that's
how I got started, 4-5 years ago.  Their big starter kit
includes the best plastic fermenter I've ever used - it was
6.5 gallons, clear Lexan, with a wide mouth.  Easy to clean,
easy to handle, and you could watch the beer brewing.  I
haven't seen the big kits in shops very often, and unless
it's on sale, it's a bit overpriced, but still a great
fermenter.  The only downside I saw was that the spigot
wasn't standard, and so not easily replaced.

I agree completely that the smaller kits are crap and should
be avoided.

regards,
Brian



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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:36:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob McDonald <rcmcdonald at yahoo.com>
Subject: FWH/hot break

Greetings -- 
A coupla questions.  First, on my last brewing
session, I brewed an IPA ~ 10 lbs pale malt, 1 lb
light crystal malt - I got a huge quantity of break
material.  The only thing I did different is that I
added a bit of gypsum to the mash and sparge water.  I
haven't been able to get a good report from my water
company here in Washington DC, so I'm experimenting
with water treatment (spare me the flames, I know it's
not the best way to go about things).  Is this the
possible cause of the break?  Can anyone offer a good
explanation for why?  My understanding is that a good
quantity of break is a good thing.  Is this correct?
or is it an indication that I overdid it on the
gypsum.  This batch is still fermenting.  It smells
great, but too early to catch any obvious flaws.

Also a question about first wort hopping -- My
(perhaps flawed) understanding is that the point of
FWH is to impart flavor and aroma by adding hops to
the kettle prior to the boil.  Everything I've read
about hops says that the delicate aromatic compounds
that provide hop aroma and flavor are driven off in
the boil.  If this is so, how can hops added before
the boil add flavor and aroma?  Help me out here.
Thanks
Bob McDonald
Washington DC

__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:05:07 -0600
From: "Dan Senne" <dsenne at intertek.net>
Subject: burners and kegs

Just wanted to pass on a bit of information...
    I recently bought a Brinkman general purpose propane cooker at Walmart
for $49.95. It's a ring-type burner that is advertised to put out 160,000
btu's.  I was delighted at how much more quickly I could bring liquid to
boil on it as opposed to my kitchen gas range.
However, since then I obtained a Sankey keg which I cut the top out of, and
found that the bottom lip of the keg fits right on the metal support ring of
the burner. Ideally, I would have liked the burner to either fit inside the
keg or outside. I'm a bit worried about this much boiling liquid perched so
precariously. I plan on some sort of modification to the burner to remedy
this.
     Anyone seeing this burner at Walmart and considering purchasing one
might want to keep this in mind if they brew with a converted keg.

     On the subject of my keg conversion, I searched the HBD archives for
keg modification, and saw a posting on using a Dremel tool with cut-off
wheels to cut out the keg top.  Since I have a Dremel I though I'd give it a
try.  I works, and give good results, but I REALLY went through the cutt-off
wheels!  I used a total of eight of the reinforced ones and about six of the
emery type for a cost of probably $12 or so.
Harborfreight (www.harborfreight.com) has a 4" disk grinder on sale for
$19.99. Before I make my new mash tun I think I'll buy one of these.
Thanks to everyone who answered my post about installing a non-welded
bulkhead in my new keg.  I'm really looking forward to getting out of the
kitchen.

Dan Senne
Collinsville, IL



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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 01:00:24 GMT
From: "Sebastian Padilla" <sebastianpadilla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Champagne corks

Hello all,

I have a quick question.  I have a Belgian Dubbel and a strong Belgian 
specialty just about ready to bottle.  I was thinking that it might be nice 
to use champagne corks to bottle them in.  My question is, is this feasible 
and relatively easy to do.  I have never seen Champagne corks for sale, 
other than the plastic ones.
How does one go about using/buying Champagne corks.

In a related note how viable of an option are the plastic corks.  Though 
these just don't look the same.

Thanks in advance

Sebastian Padilla
Tucson, AZ

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:24:04 EST
From: AlannnnT at aol.com
Subject: milk and scotch

Slightly beer related, 

Anyone know of a source for a Stainless Steel milk can? I can't seem to find 
one since we don't have any live cows around here. ( Lot's of good Steak 
Houses though. ) 

I need one to make into the boiler for a reflux tower. (distillation is 
illegal, I know, it's just for show).

It must have a tight fitting lid. I will pay any reasonable amount, or will 
trade for 3 sacks of pale or lager malt.    

Alan Talman



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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:00:15 +0000
From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wow lots of HBD#3282

Whew! I thought the janitorial staff was mad at me with about 8 versions
of HBD#3282 sent to me in rapid-fire fashion.  I have a backlog of HBDs
to read and assumed it was a gentle reminder.  If I could only get some
of my friends to ship beers to me that way......Hmmm.  No crashes caused
and no ill will, but the janitorial staff should have to drink a few
beers and reflect as punishment. Thanks for all the work.

Jett Jerome
Ooltewah ("Oooh-ta-wahh, or so they tell me), TN


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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:08:50 -0600
From: "Bill Dameron" <bdamer01 at sprynet.com>
Subject: MCAB2 Thanks

I just returned from St. Louis where I had a fantastic weekend. To the St
Louis Brews: You guys really put on a great show. Anything so well
organized must have required a great deal of work, and you should be
commended for it.

Starting with the Pub-Crawl, thanks to the brewers on the bus who took us
into their brewpubs and provided the food, beer, and tours. The tour
guides and travel arrangements were first class.

The technical and the Q&A sessions on Saturday were excellent. The St.
Louis brewery history was quite interesting, as were the seminars on
high-gravity brewing and yeast propagation.

Again, hats off to the crew of the St. Louis Brews and everyone else who
brewed the Real Ales and the many other beers for the Happy Hour and the
awards dinner. With so many beers on tap, it would have taken hours just to
sample them all. The raffle was jam packed with great prizes, and we each
got to take home 10 lbs. of Moravian Pils (courtesy of St. Pats) and a bag
of Prime Tabs too. Now, if I could only make beer half as good as those I
sampled....

Finally, on Sunday, Steve Michalak and his employees gave us the tour of the
Anheuser-Busch Pilot Brewery. I've never heard such clear, concise, and
unequivocal answers on brewing before. This guy really knows his stuff.
He loves his job and it shows.

Sorry if this is beginning to sound like an Oscar award speech, but these
people, and anyone else I forgot to mention, deserve to be recognized.
This was truly an outstanding weekend.

Bill Dameron
Elgin, IL






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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:35:46 -0800
From: Bob Wilcox <bobw at sirius.com>
Subject: MCAB II

     A big Thank You to Bob Boland and the Membership of The St. Louis
Brews for a great time this past weekend at MCAB II. What a show they
put on and it seemed like it went off with out a hitch to me. I'm sure
there may have some small problems with an event of this size, but it
didn't effect the masses.

    What a pleasure it is to put faces to the names we read every day.
Thanks to a name that has a face now and a great beer, Jeff Renner and
his CAP. I know I'll be brewing one soon.

    I would also like to thank Jeff McNally for having the insight to
bring a bottle of his "Great HBD Palexperiment" entry and sharing it
with the other Palexperimentors that were there.


Bob Wilcox
Alameda & Long Barn Ca.
bobw at sirius.com
Draught Board Home Brew Club
http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm




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