HOMEBREW Digest #3286 Thu 30 March 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Counter flow chiller! (James Jerome)
  Wink, wink, nudge ,nudge (James Jerome)
  gelatin finings and bottle conditioning (Richard_R_Gontarek)
  FWH ("Alan Meeker")
  Partial mash method. (Edward Doernberg)
  re: mash temperatures and yeast attentuation ("Stephen Alexander")
  no-mashout ("Stephen Alexander")
  Lynne's yeast counts ("Alan Meeker")
  Re: Counterflow chiller (RobertJ)
  wort fermentable sugars ("Alan Meeker")
  yeast counts (Jim Liddil)
  Planning Portland, OR trip (John Baxter Biggins)
  Phil's Philler and Brian Dixon (Dick)
  South Shore Brewoff 2000 Homebrew Competition ("Reed,Randy")
  Bouncing carboys and Bag O'Wort kits (Brian Lundeen)
  sweetness ("Spies, Jay")
  Gourmet Brewer ("Penn, John")
  high gravity and ethanol tollerance ("Alan Meeker")
  De-Leading Brass ("John Palmer")
  Chiller efficiency and metal wetting ability ("J. Doug Brown")
  Canning hops? ("J. Doug Brown")
  Stainless Steel VS copper Coil ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  burner mod.s ("Hull, Ted")
  re:counterflow chiller (J Daoust)
  Legality of distallation ("Doug Moyer")
  (no subject) (Bob Landry)
  phils philler ("Eugene Smith")
  Why boil a cereal mash? ("Michael J. Westcott")
  welding resource (James Jerome)

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Entries for the 18th Annual HOPS competition are due 3/24-4/2/00 * See http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/ for more information * 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th * More info at: http://www.hotv.org/fest2000 Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:28:04 +0000 From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> Subject: Counter flow chiller! All right, 99% of the posters here are going to chuckle, but if you are a new homebrewer still using extract brewing (like me)), then I HAVE to tell you. Make yourself a counterflow wort-chiller (NOW1). I just finished brewing a batch and it shaved a solid hour off my brew time. See archives of HBD for more info on how, but do it!. For those much more experienced posters out there, just ignore my enthusiasm...I feel like I found the Holy Grail. It is neat, cheap (less than $30 bucks for everything), and easily put together. I have been such an idiot. I started heating water in my brew pot at 9:05 pm in my kitchen, and and at 12:15Am I am done with everything cleaned, put away, and my loaded fermenter happily stored in its below stairwell location. My wifee thinks I'm still brewing. Again, make yourself a wort chiller now, don't delay...It is worth it. Jett in TN Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:38:24 +0000 From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> Subject: Wink, wink, nudge ,nudge Sorry, I Forgot to mention. If you go to the hardware store for copper tubing hose clamps, vinyl tubing etc in Tennessee, the clerk automaticaly thinks he's helping you to make some sort of still. They just don't quite buy the fact that you are a hombrewer. In TN, Don't argue. The hardware stoe guys are like 10 times more helpful if they think you are up to something. I plan on surprising them by dropping in with a few homebrews to prove I wasn't trying to do something Uncle Sam didn't like. Jett Jerome in Ooh-ta-waahhH, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:52:56 -0400 From: Richard_R_Gontarek at sbphrd.com Subject: gelatin finings and bottle conditioning Hi All, A few weeks ago a friend and I brewed a ten-gallon batch of a Kolsch, which we split into two carboys. One will be kegged and one batch will be bottled (I have a home draft set-up, my buddy does not). After primary fermentation ceased, we transferred the beer to clean carboys and began a three week cold conditioning. After this time, the beer is still a little cloudy with yeast (I've read that Wyeast 2565 Kolsh does not floc well). I sometimes use gelatin finings a few days before kegging to get clear beer, but I was wondering if it's possible to fine with gelatin at bottling time. Can my friend add corn sugar and gelatin finings when he bottles his batch? Will the gelatin impact the ability of the yeast to carbonate the beer in the bottle? Back in the days when I was bottling my homebrew, I never fined with gelatin and so I don't know if this will work. I'm sure that if we bottled one batch as is and just let it clear naturally, it will probably take a while. Maybe we should be a little patient? Thanks for any advice, Rick Gontarek Owner/Brewmaster The Major Groove Picobrewery Trappe, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:31:32 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: FWH >>how can hops added before >>the boil add flavor and aroma? Help me out here. >That's the big question that no one on HBD has found the answer to yet, >either in the literature or otherwise, but it really works. There is a >summary of FWH by Dave Draper at hbd.org, I think. >Jeff When I first heard of FWH I too was in the "how can this possibly work, what with all the lost volatiles..." camp. However, I'm definitely keeping an open mind as there apparently have been /controlled/ tests done where tasting panels do in fact find a difference between FWH and non-FWH beers. There is also at least one study out there which supposedly indicates that the process of FWH leads to a different /spectrum/ of hop-derived compounds in the final beer and this, I think, could go a long way towards explaining any perceived taste differences. I haven't seen either of these references in print though, anyone have them??? -Alan Meeker Lazy Eight Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:19:40 +0800 From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au> Subject: Partial mash method. i have been lurking on this list for some months now and find between the flames there is a quantity of useful information. In this portion there is even some that at my lowly experience level I can use. I was wondering if you could help a lowly extract brewer of 6 batches move up to partial mash. I have herd that you can do a partial mash by using a signal infusion and leaving it in the oven. 3kg light LME or 2.5kg light DME (is that number right) 320g roasted barley 200g crystal malt 100g chocolate malt 1/2 cup brown shoger 15g honey for hops I an considering tettuanger 28g at 60min 14g at 20min and 7g dry or as close as I can measure without fancy scales yeast probably 1048 or 1098 if i do this what temperature should I use and how much water wold be needed and how long do I need it at this temp and how much base malt should I use Is this wort the effort, will the bear be better for adding this step. Any other suggestions more than welcome Edward Doernberg in Western Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 03:16:23 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: mash temperatures and yeast attentuation Jerry asks ... >1. As I understand it, a higher mash temperature will yield a less >fermentable wort, will it therefore produce a "sweeter" beer ? Less fermentable - yes. But the unfermentable sugars and dextrins are NOT significantly sweet. >2. If I use a yeast which is less attenuative, will it produce a "sweeter" >beer ? Generally yes. The fermentable sugars are sweet. But I wouldn't suggest that you can get much sweetness in this way unless you have a defective fermentation. You can get a little sweetness this way tho'. >. If I use a less attenuative yeast (ie Wyeast 1968) and also raise the >mash temperature (say from 150 to 155), is it possible that the effects of >both these changes may overshoot a set goal and cause a beer to be too >"sweet" ? Perhaps, but the sweetness in beer is most usually caused by caramel (crystal or caramel malts) which is unfermentable.. >4. So, if I were going to attempt a recipe for Bass Ale which called for >invert sugar, but did not give specifications for mash temp or yeast type, >would using all three variables be over kill for this particular beer ? I think you are on the wrong track for a PA. It may have a sweet edge rounding off the dry finish, but the attenuation should be very high, and the residual sugars fairly low. English pale ales are *very* well attenuated mashed at a low temp, with only a little crystal or caramel malt. Foster suggests 2 to 6 ounces of 60L crystal per 5gal. in PAs. Invert sugar refers to sucrose (table sugar, cane sugar, beet sugar) that has been broken down into it's component glucose and fructose. Yeast perform this breakdown in a matter of minutes. The addition of sucrose or other sugars increases the attenuation and reduces body. My opinion is that you should choose the yeast first based on flavor contribution and handling issues. Then modulate the residual sweetness by adjusting the crystal malt. Continue to use a mash temp like your 150F for high attenuation. I'd certainly use sugars or well modified corn syrup - in moderation. >Sorry - that was four questions - just trying to put all this together. HBD is nothing without questions - no apology needed. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:03:41 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: no-mashout 0el posts agreeing with Dave Burley ...... >>1) One is improve the efficiency of the mash by utilizing as much of >>the available starch [...] >>2) decrease the lauter viscosity to improve the rate of extraction, >>3) knock out beta amylase to stabilize the attenuation of the wort I completely agree with these reasons for mashout. What we disagree about is the magnitude of these effects and therefore their relevance to HB. I've experimented and reported in outline my results. You are just guessing in an area where you haven't read the lit or performed the experiments Why not try a Fix 60C-70C mash w/o mashout and see. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:18:21 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Lynne's yeast counts A few comments on Lynne O'Conner's yeast data: - --------- 1. Only viable cells were counted. Cells were not counted by microscope--this is typically done only in the dairy industry. Several plate dilutions were counted (log 2,4,6,8,9 dilutions for each sample). - --------- Unless steps were taken to make sure the yeasts were fully separated (e.g. EDTA treatment) this could have led to a significant undercount of the total number of yeasts. Not necessarily the case but something to bear in mind. - --------- 2. Contamination testing was done. No contamination was found, only product - --------- Interesting, given recent discussions here. Of course, their results would depend upon what they were testing for and how they conducted the test(s)... - --------- 3. Regarding 1" thick: AFL states that Wyeast is at its optimal when its 1" thick because this is the point at which there is maximum cellular budding of the yeast. After this point there is a little more growth of yeast, but the wort (food source) is being used up and the yeast are starting to give off their waste products and saturate their system leading to a falling off of viable yeast until they reach a stationary phase. Also, alcohol is being given off and the activity of the yeast starts to decrease. What is interesting is that the optimum time to pitch does not coincide with maximum cell counts, which occurs a little later. - --------- Hmmmm well, I'm not sure I can agree with this analysis. It sounds like you're advocating "maximum budding" as the criterion for best time to pitch. Why? From your description of their counting technique it doesn't sound like it would have been sufficiently rigorous to make the distinction between budding and cell number. If they were counting cfu then the cell number could easily double or triple without them seeing any increase in their cell count numbers. Also, the production of waste products isn't restricted to this late phase of the culture growth (though it does scale to population size, all other things being equal). While the activity level will be slowing as they exhaust the nutrients the viability really shouldn't be decreasing too much, certainly not between the short amount of time between the pack's swelling from say 1" to 2" also, the fact that the pack is still swelling means that there is plenty of yeast activity taking place (CO2 production). On the other hand, taking the yeast at 1" shouldn't make too much of a difference. Brerwer's yeast can divide in 2-3 hours under ideal conditions so the difference between a 1" swelled pack and a 2" swelled pack may simply amount to another couple of hours lag time. Finally, if the cells are in fact slowing their growth rate it could due to any number of reasons - nutrient depletion, ethanol toxicity or perhaps its because of the inhibitory effect of the CO2 pressure that builds up. This would be interesting to test. -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:41:12 -0500 From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com> Subject: Re: Counterflow chiller From: "Steve" <stjones1 at chartertn.net> I'm planning on making a counterflow wort chiller using 3/4" ID copper tubing with 3/8" OD copper tubing inside. ..... I was wondering what the minimum overall length of the tubing should be to be effective at chilling to within 5 degrees of the water. A 25' coil would cost me about $50 to build, so I'd like to make it smaller if possible. ____ Your's will be similar to the "PhilChiller" except using copper outer tubing. Tests were done in Zymurgy about 4 years ago of both a 50' and 25' version. 25' should get you to within 5 degrees of cooling water temperature. It' just a matter of total cooling time (how fast can you run the wort) and total volume of cooling water used. Not sure but, I believe their test took about 15 mins with the 25' version. Not sure if zymurgy articles are online. Perhaps someone else may know Bob Precision Brewing Systems URL http://pbsbeer.com Manufacturer of 3 Vessel Brew Systems, HERMS(tm), SS Brew Kettles, SS hopback and the MAXIchiller Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:52:51 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: wort fermentable sugars re attenuation, etc. I think it is important to keep in mind the fact that, for typical all grain-derived worts, only about 75 - 80% of the carbohydrates in solution are actually useable by standard brewer's yeast. What this means is that one can't expect say a 1.060 wort to go much below 1.015 - 1.012 final gravity. The remaining sugars are maltotetraose and higher (including dextrins) and won't be eaten by the yeasts... -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:11:42 -0700 (MST) From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU> Subject: yeast counts I applaud Lynne for post the following info. I admit and take full repsonsiblity for being antagonistic. And this kind of independent data goes a long way towards providing much needed inof to the homebrewer. > > 1. Only viable cells were counted. Cells were not counted by > microscope--this is typically done only in the dairy industry. Several > plate dilutions were counted (log 2,4,6,8,9 dilutions for each sample). > > 2. Contamination testing was done. No contamination was found, only product. I have to aks what kind of testing was done with what medias? Aerobic and anaerobic? > > 3. Regarding 1" thick: > This issue, i.e., when is the optimal time to pitch Wyeast, was the main > focus of these tests for me. In my original post I understated how many > Wyeast packs were checked and at what thickness. AFL checked numerous > packs ranging from immediately smacked to fully risen at a number of > thicknesses to answer this question. This was an iterative process that > funneled down to the 1" thick pouch. Again I think it would be great to see all the raw data. Any chance of getting this on your web site? > > 4. Jim Liddil wonders why Analytical Food Labs data is more or less valid > than that included in the Zymurgy 1998 special issue. I will repeat that > the tests that I reported were done by a professional lab, that the yeast > suppliers had no knowledge whatsoever that the tests were going to be done, > the products got to the lab in about as good a condition as possible. > > Here are the facts of which I am certain regarding the Zymurgy article. > > The cell counts, for both White Labs and Wyeast, in the table of the > Zymurgy special issue were provided to the author by White Labs. This is > not stated in the article. The White Labs data sheet containing these cell > counts clearly states the tests on Wyeast were done on 2 week old packs > obtained secondhand. This information is not provided in the article. Thanks for clarifying this. One can only hope that Zymurgy will begin to be a better more thorughly editted magazine with Ray in charge. I think finding oout info like this just further supports the view of the lack of credibility at the AHA in the past. Jim Liddil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:38:56 -0500 From: John Baxter Biggins <jbbiggin at med.cornell.edu> Subject: Planning Portland, OR trip Will be in Portland, OR next week. I'm familiar w/ the area but haven't been there in over a year. As brewpubs tend to change from month to month & actual brews from week to week, which breweries are currently the best to hit? Private email OK: bignz721 at hotmail.com - ------------------- John B. Biggins Cornell University Medical College Weill Graduate School of Medical Sciences Student -- Program in Pharmacology Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Laboratory for Biosynthetic Chemistry Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Therapeutics lab:(212)693-6405 fax:(212)717-3135 http://www.ski.edu/lab_homepage.cfm?lab=189 "Science, like Nature, must also be tamed With a view towards its preservation. Given the same state of integrity It will surely serve us well." -- Neil Peart; Natural Science (III) -- Permanent Waves Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:58:26 -0500 From: Dick <dickgl at lek.net> Subject: Phil's Philler and Brian Dixon Here is Listermans page and info on Phil's Philler and other products http://www.listermann.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:00:23 -0500 From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed at foxboro.com> Subject: South Shore Brewoff 2000 Homebrew Competition Everyone, Just a quick reminder that the deadline for entries in this year's South Shore Brewoff Homebrew Competition is April 1st. There are a number of drop off locations in the Massachusetts / Rhode Island area. For more information, please surf to: http://members.aol.com/brewclub We appreciate your support, and strive to run a BJCP competition that has become known for providing quality, objective feedback to our entrants. Interested in Judging? Use the link above for more information. Cheers, Randy Reed Chief Information Officer South Shore Brew Club - In Search Of The Perfect Pint Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:41:23 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at post.rrc.mb.ca> Subject: Bouncing carboys and Bag O'Wort kits > > Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 04:59:34 -0800 > From: "Brian Dixon." <briandixon at home.com> > Subject: Mail order Phil's Philler? > > I asked this once before, but the post didn't go through or > something (?), > so it didn't get answered. In any case, my wonderful brass > Phil's Philler > broke ... something about a 1/3rd full carboy coming down off > a counter and > bouncing around the kitchen while trying to bottle my latest > creation ... > and now I need a new Philler. See now, here is a perfect example of why you should use GLASS carboys. It would simply have broken neatly into thousands of lethal shards, and your Philler would have been spared. ;-) > Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:01:03 -0500 > From: "Steven Lichtenberg" <slichten at mnsinc.com> > Subject: Great new product > This is a product called MicroWorts. > The product is about $18.00 and contains 2.5 gallons of wort. This sounds very similar to the BrewHouse kits. They provide 15 litres of high gravity wort, which you dilute with water to your desired strength. Note that this is not concentrate or extract. It is a true ready to ferment wort produced by mashing, sparging and boiling but at a high gravity. With a full water addition to yield a normal 4-5% alcohol beer, the kits will make 6 gallons (23 litres, at least the product in Canada does, you folks down there in the States may get a slightly different product). The product is very good, and much less expensive than the MicroWorts. With recent price drops, they should be selling up here for around the $20 mark. That's about $14 US for twice as much beer. Perhaps, the MicroWorts make much better beer, and are worth the extra money. That will be up to people to decide for themselves. Just letting you know about alternatives. Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:55:36 -0500 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: sweetness All - In HBD #3282, Jerry asked for recommendations to control the overall level of "sweetness" in a beer, esp. a Bass ale clone. OK, IMO, there are several factors a work which can ultimately affect fermentability, and hence, final perceived "sweetness" levels. He's right in that a higher mash sacc temp (152-156) will promote dextrin formation and unfermentables, which will leave more residual sugars in the beer and hence a sweeter taste, while the opposite, a lower mash temp (146-149) will produce a more fermentable beer and a drier, more noticeably alcoholic final product. However, there are other factors to consider. For one, oxygenation at pitching. More O2 at pitching time will give the yeasts more fuel to build up their cell structures (...don't know the exact scientific frippery for this process), and will lead to a more vigorous fermentation and a likely lower FG. Underoxygenation will lead to sluggish and possibly stuck fermentations, and while a "sweeter" beer could lkely be obtained with this method, I wouldn't recommend it due to the concomitant increase in lag time and its open window for bacterial contamination. Also, this is not a really reliable way to control fermentation level. Third, control over the pitching rate has a large effect on FG. Pitch a large amount of yeast, and depending on the overall attenuation of the strain, you can reasonably expect that they will ferment out to their approximate alcohol tolerance, perhaps a bit over. Underpitching, as has been discussed ad infinitum here of late, can produce the opposite effect, with the yeast struggling to just make ends meet, so to speak. What's the bottom line, here? If you want to control the FG, and hence, the sweetness, I'd advise 2 things: Choose your (liquid) yeast wisely, and use the mash temp to control the level of attenuation. This (IMHO) is by far the most reliable method to gain control over the attenuation. Notice here what I did not say: Nothing about pitching or oxygenation. Those should be, for lack of a better term, standard. Pitch lots of yeast from a starter, yeast that has been stepped up at least once for ales, 2 or 3 times for lagers, and oxygenate well. These 2 things will go miles toward ensuring healthy and vigorous fermentations, and will also close the purse strings on that window of opportunity for bacterial infection. Your choice of yeast will affect the residual flavors of the final product, and will determine (roughly) the level of attenuation that you will get (...given identical worts, a 1056 strain will always ferment down more than a 1968). Once you have the yeast for style, use your mash temp to fine tune the attenuation to your liking. Vary the grain bill and the hop bill to fine tune the flavor to your liking. I happen to like malty, ESB-like IPA's (oxymoron?), and have spent the last 4 or so years tweaking one recipe to achieve what I feel to be a good balance of maltiness and hoppiness. I use a 1028 strain and a relatively high mash temp (154) to get a FG in the 1.016 - 1.017 range. Every time. I also pitch a load of yeast and add pure O2 to the wort. Every time. Fermentation is usually complete in under 60 hours, and lag time is usually under 4. I like it this way. Can you make great beers using other methods than mine? Of course you can. I'm sure scads of people do. Mine is but one in a sea of datapoints, but it works for me. Hopefully it will work for you, or at least give you a jumping off point. So, if you want a Bass clone, get a recipe from the Gambrinus' Mug or Cat's Meow sites (if you dont already have one) and start experimenting. I'd initially advise using a Burton yeast strain, but don't lock yourself in. Take careful notes, and repeat until you have a product you like. Be wary of folks that say "mash at X temp and pitch X strain and use X recipe and you'll get Bass", because that doesn't take into account the efficiency or individuality of your system or your brewing process. Most of all, have fun with it, and drink your experiments. You'll learn from the process. BTW, invert sugar will make the beer drier and more fermentable because unlike malt sugars, invert sugars are almost completely fermentable, and will tend to drag the FG down and give a drier, more alcoholic product, not the opposite. hope this helps, Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:16:56 -0500 From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu> Subject: Gourmet Brewer Anyone know what happened to the "Gourmet Brewer"? They used to have a great deal on bulk hops, like 6 varieties of 1/2# domestic hops for $20 or 6 varieties of 1/2# imported hops for $30. Anyone know what happened to Dave? Anyone know of another place that deals in bulk hops (#) for a really good price? TIA John Penn Eldersburg, MD Just opened a bottle of that scotch ale I brewed a couple of months ago. Pretty good so far but I think I'll try to carmelize the malt more by using a longer boil. The aroma on my previous batch and caramel flavor was tremendous. Might even up the roasted barley or hops a pinch from the recipe I posted previously. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:21:26 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: high gravity and ethanol tollerance cbuckley asked some questions about high gravity brewing. There was a very good research paper on this topic that was commented on at length on the HBD by Rob Moline, Steve Alexander and myself (probably others too) either in '99 or '98. If you do a search of the archives on "high gravity" you'll probably run into it pretty quickly. As to how much ethanol brewer's yeast can tolerate, the paper mentioned above had standard brewer's yeast fermenting a high gravity wort to something like 16% final alcohol. Don't remember if this was by weight or by volume but either way it's pretty impressive. The take home messages from this study was that nitrogen was a key factor in getting the yeast to perform well in their high gravity situation. Also, lipids were important as was cell number and /actively growing/ cells. Their results are in keeping with the advice generally given to brewers attempting a high gravity fermentation - pitch high, pitch healthy yeast, and oxygenate/aerate the wort well. Their results highlighting the importance of adequate nitrogen shouldn't be too much of a problem if your wort is all-grain (or extract from all-grain) based. Looks like the nitrogen becomes a problem if you've bumped up the gravity by adding a lot of "empty calories" ie - added dextrose or sucrose. Hope this helps -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:09:30 -0800 From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: De-Leading Brass Adam asks: What's this (I've seen it mentioned before) about de-leading brass plumbing >fittings? Surely fittings supplied for potable water are "unleaded"? In a word, "No." There is a small (3%) amount of lead in yellow brass to facilitate machining. Given the small amount, it is not hazardous, but if you do want to remove it (I do), then do the following. Rick misquoted the solution, btw. It is supposed to be 2:1 vinegar to H2O2. Cleaning Brass Some brewers use brass fittings in conjunction with their wort chillers or other brewing equipment and are concerned about the lead that is present in brass alloys. A solution of two parts white vinegar to one part hydrogen peroxide (common 3% solution) will remove tarnish and surface lead from brass parts when they are soaked for 5-10 minutes at room temperature. The brass will turn a buttery yellow color as it is cleaned. If the solution starts to turn green and the brass darkens, then the parts have been soaking too long and the copper in the brass is beginning to dissolve, exposing more lead. The solution has become contaminated and the part should be re-cleaned in a fresh solution. John Palmer metallurgist Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:21:27 -0500 From: "J. Doug Brown" <jbrown at mteer.com> Subject: Chiller efficiency and metal wetting ability Hello, I was thinking of my counterflow chiller design using all copper when the following dawned on me. SS is bad for boiling because it is not wetted easily by water, or so I heard here. The effect of this is poor heat transfer due to the air barrier between SS and water. Does copper have this same bad property? I know copper conducts heat rapidly, but if there is a barrier to water contact with the copper, that barrier would restrict heat flow. If this is a problem with copper are there any one time copper coating liquids that can be used which transfer heat effectively and can be wetted by water. I was thinking maybe a surfactant type liquid that adheres to copper. Probably not necessary for homebrewers, but my curiosity was sparked. Thanks for any information Doug Brown - -- J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV Sr. Software Engineer jbrown at mteer.com jbrown at ewa.com www.labs.net/kbrown www.ewa.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:49:47 -0500 From: "J. Doug Brown" <jbrown at mteer.com> Subject: Canning hops? Hello, What methods do you hops growers use to can hops. I found a product I was considering called "Vac-U-Pump" at: http://www.vac-u-pump.com/ ,no affiliation. Has anybody used this as part of canning hops? Has anybody dealt with this company? Any Information, or other suggestions would be helpful. I was planning on removing the air from a canning jar filled with hops, then freezing them till I was ready to use them. Thanks for the help Doug Brown - -- J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV Sr. Software Engineer jbrown at mteer.com jbrown at ewa.com www.labs.net/kbrown www.ewa.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:31:38 -0700 From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net> Subject: Stainless Steel VS copper Coil Jerry asks: >When making a chiller for a jockey box, is it imperative that I use a >Stainless Coil? I know copper conducts Heat/cold much better, will it >(copper) give me a metallic taste? Also, anybody know of a good source >for Stainless tubing? I used a new copper fridge coil for my jocky box and it works great. I flush all the lines with clean water after each use. I also flush with iodophor and let sit for a day or two after the box has been used a fair bit. These days I'm not drinking much beer at all (perhaps 3 pints in the last month) but leaving water in the coil doesn't seem to have caused any problems. Good Luck! Matthew in CO "We have to work in the theatre of our own time, with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:39:38 -0800 From: "Hull, Ted" <THull at Brwncald.com> Subject: burner mod.s Thought I'd chime in on the subject of getting a keg to sit on top of a Brinkmann or Cajun Cooker. The solution I use is somewhat similar to John Varady's. And I don't think that you have to weld, as Paul says. The outer ring of my burner sits about 1/2" lower than the supports that the keg actually rests on. I bought a short length of angle iron and cut it into three pieces, each about 8" long, with a hacksaw. I then notched each piece (again with the trusty hacksaw) so that the notch fits over the outer ring on the burner and about 3" to 4" of the angle sticks outside the burner. I use one or two of those $1 small C clamps to clamp each section angle to the support it rests atop. My burner has three U-shaped supports, where the bottom of the U is closest to the center of the burner when you look down from above. All that the added pieces of angle do is extend the supports outward and underneath the bottom ring of the keg. And I use 3 so that they're equally spaced around the perimeter. Here's why I like it: 1) No welding required, which means I can take it apart easily for transport/storage. 2) My filled keg isn't depending on the friction of a tightened C clamp alone for support. 3) Nothing is left over the fire, although I have eventually killed a clamp or two (again, $1 each) after 2+ years of service. Here's sorta what it looks like from the side: ********** <- added angle iron, clamp not shown *0 *0 00000*0000000000 <- outer ring of the burner * 0000000000000000 Ted Hull Atlanta, Georgia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:36:31 -0800 From: J Daoust <thedaousts at ixpres.com> Subject: re:counterflow chiller Steve, I have a 50' section of 3/8" copper refrig line running through a 50' 5/8" garden hose. It works awesome and with the use of a pump drops the temp down as close to the actual water temp as I can imagine possible. All in all, the pump cuts the time down to ~5 minutes. At the to cut the hose in half because of the friction. One thing you might try is pulling the copper instead of pushing it. Maybe use a snake to get a piece of small rope down the hose. Then pull it through. I was totally amazed at how good it worked. I made the fittings for the garden hose from parts at the hardware store for ~$10.00. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:11:18 -0500 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> Subject: Legality of distallation Brewers, This past weekend, one of the other attendees of the MCAB2 told me that it was legal to distill for personal use. Huh? Can this be true? Personally, I have no use for hooch, but I think it would be amusing to set up a mini-still to distill a pint into a shot or two just for experimental purposes. (I.e., what is left over of the hop flavor of an American IPA? how about the malt flavors of a Scottish wee heavy?) So, what ARE the rules? (The reason I got thinking about this is an ad I saw in an in-flight "mall" catalog for a tiny still, all glass with a alcohol flame. Ridiculous price, but cool.) Brew on! Doug Moyer (AKA Dr. Pivo 49) Salem, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:38:11 -0700 From: Bob Landry <utahbob at jps.net> Subject: (no subject) > > Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 04:59:34 -0800 > From: "Brian Dixon." <briandixon at home.com> > Subject: Mail order Phil's Philler? > > Does anyone know of an online store, or have the phone number of a shop that > does mail order, that DOES carry the Phil's Philler? My initial searches > have turned up zilch ... > > Also, it seems I remember that the Phil's Philler was offered for a time > with either nickel or chrome plating ... is my imagination going wild, or > does anyone know anything about this? If it's true, then is the plated > version or the plain brass version better? Why? > > Thx MUCHO Amigo! > > Brian > Did a "Go Express" search using "Phil's Filler" as the identifier and got 59 hits for retail sites that still sell this item. (One of them referred to it as "...highly recommended...). Got some good e-retail sites for my bookmarks at the same time. So I'd say this is still definitely available, but I only saw it described in brass. Bob PS- as an aside, Go Express is the most effective search engine I've used yet. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:23:57 -0800 From: "Eugene Smith" <genonruth at mindspring.com> Subject: phils philler For Brian, who is looking for a Phils Philler ;;;;; They are available from heartshomebrew.com for a very reasonable price. Geno Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:31:03 -0700 From: "Michael J. Westcott" <mikew at sedona.net> Subject: Why boil a cereal mash? Somewhere in my reading, I came upon the temperature for gelatinization of rice at between 68-75 degrees C. Is the boiling of a cereal mash such as one composed of rice and 30% malt (or enzymes) for carmelization or flavor enhancement, or is there some other chemical or physical reason for the boil? I've seen these issues addressed in other HBD posts and in the archives, I just haven't seen any definitive reasons. Wouldn't conversion and gelatinization occur at the temperatures stated above? I know that a boil is traditional and recommended, I'm just not sure why. I plan to brew a CAP style for one of my summer beers and would like to use rice or corn in a cereal mash, in the past I have used flaked adjuncts or minute rice mixed with the grains and mashed without any pre-cooking. Any other pointers would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:49:09 +0000 From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> Subject: welding resource Paul Niebergall recently mentioned in HBD#3285 about his brother-in-law as a vo-tech trained welder.... My suggestion for brewers getting a RIMS together and hoping to keep costs down is this. Contact your local Community College or Vocational Training School (even high school types) and find out who the welding instructor is. Generally they are quite amiable to real world projects to train their students. They will want to know exactly what needs welding (metal-types and dimensions) and usually don't charge anything. But it may take a few weeks to get it done. I had a gas grill frame repaired this way over the Winter and they even sanded & repainted. Just ask the instructor...A promise of a few homebrews will virtually guarantee success. Students get training, you get your specifc welding done, instructor has homebrew,...seems a a fairly balanced equation to me. Try it. Jett Jerome in Ooh-te-Wahhh, TN Return to table of contents
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