---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  AHA (Marc Sedam)
  Giving Jeff a break, asking for one... (MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA)
  Re: Decoction info needed (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: iodophor and health (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Bottles (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: mash-out ad nauseam (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Rims, Herms mash thickness (RobertJ)
  re: Chiller turned flusher (RobertJ)
  Better beer through science (Jim)
  Infusion Mash Help - Follow up! ("Jeremy J. Arntz")
  Beer engine question (Michael Allison)
  Built-in cooler (Chris Cooper)
  Labatts Velvet Cream Porter (Mark Yehle)
  Yeast quest for Dr. Cone ("Jim Wallace")
  Announcement (Bill Briggs)
  Yeast Q's - Alan Meeker -Dr. Cone ("Rob Moline")
  re: mash-out ad nauseam ("Stephen Alexander")
  ...and the party never ends. (Rick Magnan)
  Prospective Pivo Pump Parts Purveyors (Some Guy)
  the immersion chiller shake (Aaron Robert Lyon)
  RE: PrimeTabs (Tim  Burkhart)
  The brew that wanted out (spostek)
   ("Dave Hinrichs")
  What's that stuff on my beer? (rob.green1)
  Re: lagering questions (Jeff Renner)
  Re:  flaked out or loosing your liner (Jeff Renner)
  Dr. Cone (Osew)
  Dead Beer? ("Nic Templeton")
  More on iodophor ("Foster Jason")
  Big Brew ("Paul Gatza")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:47:14 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: AHA

I've just had my first pleasant experience with the AHA in
four years and would like to make an open call to AHA/AOB
critics to give the organization another chance.  It seems
like they're putting the right people in the right places
and there are signs that the ship is starting to right
itself.  Nothing is intended as a criticism of Brian Rezac
who, in my limited interaction, did not appear to be part of
the problem.  Let's not rehash that now.

Anyhoo, I had won a year membership to the AHA in a
competition three years ago but never received anything.
Repeated follow up calls resulted in no action or resolution
to the issue.  I decided, in one last gasp, to try Ray
Daniels, who agreed to honor the commitment within 20
minutes.  I was shocked.

Let's face it, without BT and it's merry band of followers
the AHA is the best chance at continued improvement in
homebrewing.  I have decided to try and be part of the
solution to turning around Zymurgy and (1) become a paying
member of the AHA again, and (2) contribute to the content
where appropriate.  If permanent changes in any system are
desired, it's best to show support when you see signs that
things are going in the right direction.  I see those
signs.  Oh, and when the wife graduates I'll send that check
to the HBD Server Fund.

I was as vocal a critic of the AHA as there ever was (still
think the "Why We Brew" issue was a bigger waste of trees
than the entire Ken Starr report), but decided that everyone
deserves another chance.  Perhaps with increased support and
better and more frequent contributions by the wider HB
community, Zymurgy can tap into the expertise and serve the
market that Brewing Techniques used to serve.  In addition
to an improved HB community, it would serve as a testament
to the influence that six years of BT had on many of us.

For some reason I feel like Gavroche standing atop the
barricades...

Cheers!
Marc

- --
Marc Sedam
Technology Development Associate
Office of Technology Development
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105
Chapel Hill, NC  27599-4105

919.966.3929  (phone)
919.962.0646  (fax)
http://www.research.unc.edu/otd




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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:08:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA <mmaceyka at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Giving Jeff a break, asking for one...

Howdy,

	Jeff Renner mentions that he always get extra break after pressure
canning supposedly break-free wort.  My guess, and it is just a guess tough it
does have scientific precedent, is that the break you are seeing is formed
from proteins which were not denatured in the boil but were denatured at the
higher temps in the pressure cooker.

	***Imperfect brewer alert - page down now -***

	I had no idea that the HBD was a forum for brewers of perfect beer to
discuss just how perfect their beers are.  I was under the naive assumption
that many of us were imperfect brewers who were looking for advice, from
scientists and artists alike, as to what went wrong with the last batch.  I
sincerely apologize for not recognizing that I am in the midst of the greatest
brewers in the world, people who have never made a bad batch of beer in their 
lives.  I humbly ask forgiveness from the Perfect Ones. You know who you are.


Mike Maceyka
Finally brewing (imperfectly) again in Takoma Park, MD





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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:26:11 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Decoction info needed 

The "thickest part" is mostly grain, with just enough liquid to keep
it from scorching.  What I do is to scoop grain with a strainer (HSA
alert!), gently lifting the strainer from the mash so that most of the
liquid runs back into the mash without falling any significant
distance, to minimize oxidation.  Then I scoop out enough liquid to
just reach the surface of the grains I've taken.

The "thinnest part" has as little grain as possible.  I get this by
draining liquid out the bottom of my combined mash-lauter tun.

Then there's the "how much" question.  My mash-lauter tun is a
cylindrical cooler, so it is calibrated on the inside in gallons and
liters.  So it's a fairly simple matter to estimate how much I've
taken.

Note that the "drier" your "thick" decoction is, the more you have to
take, because the grains have a lower heat capacity than does the
liquid.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:32:17 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: iodophor and health 

    Jason> I note in most jurisdictions, occupational exposure limits
    Jason> are in the 0.1 ppm to .5 ppm range.

Hmm.

A typical iodophor solution is 25ppm.

You might have 50ml (probably much less) left in your fermenter, even
if you don't drip-dry it.  

Now dilute that with 20l of wort.  

20l/50ml = 20/0.05 = 400x dilution factor.

So the 25ppm in the left-behind iodophor is diluted to 25/400 =
0.06ppm.  This is definitely less than 0.1ppm.  And that's with my
"worst case" assumption of 50ml left behind.

It doesn't seem like something I'm going to spend much time worrying
about.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:41:42 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Bottles 

If you get "twist off" caps, which are made of thinner metal than
standard caps, you may be able to use twist off bottles.  The
effective diameter of lip of a twist-off bottle is slightly larger
than that of a regular bottle, so you may have trouble getting your
capper all the way on.

I've never used twist-offs with my 2-handle capper.  It takes more
force than I am comfortable applying.  I have successfully capped
twist-offs with a bench capper.

That's my experience, anyway.

=Spencer



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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:45:28 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: mash-out ad nauseam 

Nathaniel P. Lansing writes:

    delbrew>     As the temperature slips down from alpha rest temps
    delbrew> the BA certainly still is active and at the point of it's
    delbrew> more aggressive activity.

NO!

Enzymes work more slowly as the temperature drops.  The reason that
the "optimum" temperature for beta-amylase is lower than that for
alpha- is because the beta is more quickly destroyed at the higher
temperatures.  So the "optimum" temperature is where the increase in
efficiency due to high temperature is balanced with the decrease in
efficiency due to faster denaturation.

=Spencer


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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:02:30 -0400
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re: Rims, Herms mash thickness

Rick & Ruth Duyck <rnrduyck at mnsi.net> wrote

I've read somewhere (here?)
that it is important to reach the next temperature quickly. I've also
read in Charlie P.'s book that "a thicker mash favors proteolytic
activity and thinner mashes favor diastatic activity". Is it ok to just
add boiling water as he does in his book and use the heat exchanger ( or
heater element in a R.I.M.S.) to maintain the temperature and for
mashout? I figure you would have to mix the boiling water in the set
grain bed ,but wouldn't the grain bed reset again? 
____

I'm not aware of any benefit, other than saving time of reaching a mash
step quickly.

What you are proposing by adding boiling water, to raise mash temp, is a 2
step infusion mash, a technique many brewers use. This, in my opinion
defeats the advantages of heat exchange or Rims

As I see it the disadvantage of using 2 step infusion is that you change
mash thickness, which as you point out does make a difference in the FG,
but, depending on the style you brew may not be important.

Regarding resetting the grain bed. Most brewers will stir the mash several
times during the mash rest to help in evening out temperature and to insure
a good conversion. It will only take a few minutes of recirculating to
reset it.

Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://pbsbeer.com Manufacturer of 3 Vessel
Brew Systems, HERMS(tm), SS Brew Kettles, SS hopback and the MAXIchiller


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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:02:33 -0400
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: re: Chiller turned flusher

From: "Dan Schultz" <dschultz at primenet.com> wrote

In my research on RIMS systems on the web, I have yet to note anyone else
using a built-in immersion cooler. I suspect that for all the trouble, most
go to C/F chiller. By my method, I eliminate any sanitation concerns and now
I can put a nicely fit lid on my boiler as soon as I turn the heat off to
minimize airborne contamination.
__

We have offered our BII (Built In Immersion) chiller for several years
based on our HERMS coil.

It is very effective and allows a closed system, but has some disadvantages
as well; can't use a false bottom for leaf hops, makes boiling kettle a bit
more difficult to clean, limits thermometer placement and length. 




Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://pbsbeer.com Manufacturer of 3 Vessel
Brew Systems, HERMS(tm), SS Brew Kettles, SS hopback and the MAXIchiller


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:14:45 -0400
From: Jim <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: Better beer through science

Does anyone besides me add cardamom to their beer to reduce skunking?  

While perusing the patent office's database late one evening last year I
discovered patent #4,389,421, entitled "Method for controlling light
stability in malt beverages and product thereof ".   This intrigued me, and
upon reading the text of the patent, found that it claimed that, among
other things, adding 60 parts per billion of cardamom to beer would
dramatically reduce or even prevent skunking of said beer while not
changing the flavor of the beer.  I have demonstrated to my satisfaction
that this actually works, and always add one crushed cardamom pod at the
else out there has tried this?

I also found another patent, #5,811,144, entitled "Beer having increased
light stability and process of making ", which makes the claim that
reducing the riboflavin content of wort by exposing it to light of a
particular wavelength will prevent the beer made from said wort from
skunking.  I have no practical way to test this, but it certainly is
intriguing, isn't it?

You can read the patents mentioned here for yourself at the USPTO website:

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

The number search page is:

http://164.195.100.11/netahtml/srchnum.htm 


Comments, speculations, etc.  are solicited from one and all.

Cheers, Jim


Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptdprolog.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:43:29 -0400
From: "Jeremy J. Arntz" <arntz at surfree.com>
Subject: Infusion Mash Help - Follow up!

I just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to reply to my post. I
apologize to those I wasn't able to respond to work has kept me busy. I
wanted to let you guys know that I decided on and purchased Phil's Lauter
Tun. Obviously not the highest quality equipment however after pricing all
the piece separately it was definitely cheaper than building my own system
of the same style. As any true homebrewer would I have already tested it ( I
haven't had more than an hour. ) and I already had plans for improvements.
The one thing I would like to change are the hose clamps I would like to
swap those out for valves. Any suggestions? The hose is 3/8 I.D. I am
interested in something that can of course take the temps. and that has a
barbed ends for easy assembly and disassembly for cleaning. Does anyone have
experience with this system ? If you do I would like to hear about it. I am
a brewer on a shoe string so the $75 I spent today on the Phil's Lauter Tun
and 20qt S.S. pot is about my equipment budget for a while. (Just as a
reminder I only do 2-3 gallon batches - atleast right now things may
change!) Thank you all once again for your help!!!
One more all grain brewer!

Jeremy (arntz at surfree.com)
"Draft beer , not people."
(:-o)<><////////>



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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:29:22 -0400
From: Michael Allison <mallison at heldref.org>
Subject: Beer engine question

Hello,

I'm new to list and was hoping to get some information.  I like Pat Babcock
just won a beer engine off of Ebay (I think we even bet on the same one =8^)
It is in great condition except for the seals inside the piston.  The piston
had a label on it with the name IMI Cornelius UK.  The beer engine also had
a sticker on the front with Sureflow Limited on it.  I contacted the US
office for IMI Cornelius and they had no idea what I was talking about.

Does anyone know where I can get replacement seals for this model?  If it
helps, below is a link to the picture of the beer engine off of Ebay's
website.  Thank you in advance.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=301082553

- -- 
Sincerely,
Michael J. Allison
Director of Information Technology
Heldref Publications
1319 Eighteenth St. NW
Washington, DC 20036-5149
P: 202-296-6267
F: 202-293-6130
mallison at heldref.org



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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:06:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject:  Built-in cooler

Greetings all!  Just a quick note, I have been using a converted
keg for a cooker with a built-in cooling coil for some time
with great success. 

I have approximately 30' of 1/2" copper coiled around the inside
wall of my keg. The inlet is located about 1/3 of the way down from
the top of the keg and the outlet is about 1/3 of the way up from
the bottom, I welded 1" female pipe couplers through the side of
the keg and put 90^ adapters to 1/2" compression fittings on the
inside.  I use the use the initial warm water coming out of the
exhaust hose to clean everything except the cooker!  I can chill
a 10 gallon batch to 70^F in 15-20 minutes depending on the time
of year (I have cool well water).  

The single biggest hassle with the system was cleaning the spent hops
off the coil with it in place, the easy way is to simply disconnect
the coil from the two compression fittings and remove it to hose it
down.  I use a green scotch brite pad and a little vinegar to clean
it before each batch.  This has simply become part of my brew day
and only adds about 5 minutes in total.

Brewing beer is great but fabricating new brew-toys is almost as 
satisfying!

And of course no hardware description would be complete without an attempt
at ASCII art work, so here goes:

                             Lid from old pot
                            _                _
                          \__\______________/__/
                           |                  |
            15 Gal. Keg    |                  |
                           |                  |
                           |                  |
                           | O              O=== <---- Cooling water out
                           | O              O |    (I would lower this to 
                           | O <--Cooling-> O |     the middle of the keg)
                           | O     Coil     O |
   Cooling Water in ----> ===O              O |
                           |                  |
                           |                  |
               Drain ---> ===                 | 
                            \________________/


Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen) 
Commerce, Michigan    Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild
(Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian)



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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:39:40 +0200
From: Mark Yehle <myehle at socket.net>
Subject: Labatts Velvet Cream Porter

Each spring a man's fancy turns to thoughts of.....fishing trips to
Canada and Labatt's Velvet Cream Porter.  This was one of the first
experiences I had with non-AB type beers.  Each year I would bring back
as many cases as I could and ration them during the year.
Unfortunately, Labatts quit brewing this beer a few year ago and I now
take several cases of homebrew on our trips.

I would like to brew something as close to the original as possible and
need a recipe or flavor descriptions.  Can anyone help?

Also, a brewing question about harvesting yeast.  I usually pitch the
yeast into quickly cooled wort as soon as possible which means that the
trub has not settled before the yeast goes into the glass carboy.
Later, when I save some of the yeast, I worry that mixing in some trub
might cause a problem?  What are the best ways to separate the yeast
from the trub or prevent this problem?  Should I just quit worrying and
have a homebrew?

Thanks for the help.

Mark Yehle
Carpe' Bierum Homebrew Club
Ashland, MO
myehle at socket.net



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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:42:13 -0400
From: "Jim Wallace" <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Yeast quest for Dr. Cone

Dr Cone: 
I have several questions on culturing and propogating yeast from specific
brewers.

1) do you feel that it is possible to capture the character yeast and
culture effectivly from a fresh bottle of beer (Chimay, DeDole, Westvletern,
Rochforte, etc)?

2) In the case of several of the belgian beers where multi strains are used,
can this multi character be preserved in simple culturing (ie simply
streaking to a plate and taking samples from several colonies)

3)any comments on pros and cons of yeast head skimming relating to a)total
fermentation process and b)changes in character of future fermentations when
recycling this yeast

4) any comments on the dry yeast available from Belgium/France/GB
  ________________________________
          Jim Wallace
  http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace
  ________________________________



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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:49:12 -0600
From: Bill Briggs <bbriggs at vcn.com>
Subject: Announcement

The High Plains Drafters Homebrew Club of Cheyenne, Wyo.
Announces the 6th Annual Eight Seconds of Froth Homebrew
Competiton, June 17th, 2000. Entries due June 1-13th.
All info at http://www.vcn.com/~bbriggs/8sec2000.html



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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:27:29 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Yeast Q's - Alan Meeker -Dr. Cone

From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Dr. Cone question
Here's another for Dr. Cone: In your opinion what is the best long-term
yeast storage method available to amateur brewers? We have heard much
discussion about the pros and cons of frozen storage in glycerol, storage
under distilled water and various salt and/or buffer solutions as well as
beer, etc. It seems no clear consensus has emerged from these discussions.

Alan,
Ann Dumont, the person that is responsible for our yeast culture collection
recommends that yeast that is kept on slants be grown 72 hours at 25 C on
YM-Agar then covered with sterile light mineral oil (to prevent drying out)
an refrigerated at 4C. This should be adequate for at least 2 years
storage.

For yeast in a slurry form as you would have for repitching, she suggests
that you refrigerate at 4 C and allow to settle as much as possible with
out the yeast becoming a paste, decant the supernatant and mix with equal
portions of sterile glycerol and freeze.

When you freeze liquid yeast with out glycerol, the crystals build up
slowly and rupture many of the cells. The problem of ice crystal rupture
occurs at normal freezer temperatures of 0 to -20C.  The presence of
glycerol minimizes the excessively large crystal formation.  Frozen yeast /
glycerol should give you many viable yeast cells for many years.

Dr. Tobias Fishborn, in charge of our beer yeast and brewing research and
until recently in charge of Weihenstephan yeast culture collection
adds the following comments:

   Frozen storage of yeast in glycerol is mainly for preservation of
   cultures. It is not suitable for larger amounts of yeast.
   If you store the yeast not longer than one month it can be done in spent
   beer at temperatures of 4 degree Celsius or lower
   For longer storage periods the yeast should be separated from the spent
   beer and stored under regular brewing water, NOT DISTILLED WATER

Clayton Cone


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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:57:49 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: mash-out ad nauseam

Del sez ...

>As the temperature slips down [..] the BA certainly
>still is active and at the point of it's more aggressive activity.

A = A0 * e^kT     monotonically increasing with temps, get it ?


>  Never said I didn't like my heat source [...]
First you argued that mashout saves energy & time.  Then that mashout saves
propane if you use hot tap water.  But why should you care to save propane
in exchange for hot tap water if you have no heat source preference ?   Ans:
you do.  BTW - what's portable about your hot water spigot ?

>>I don't find your arguments compelling or even based on a good
grasp of the issues.<<
>
>That's nice, you work for the Clinton spin-meisters?

Spin ? Ca isn't a cofactor for malt BA.  BA is not more active at a lower
temperature (tho it denatures less). Your suggestion that mashout saves
energy and time are in error. Your claim that I am arguing that no-mashout
is preferable is a total fabrication.  Your false characterization that I am
against mashout is a crock.  It only appears that I'm "spinning" from your
frame of reference Del.

I sincerely meant that you lack an understanding of the basic principles of
enzyme catalysis rates and several of your other claims are clearly in
error.  Why not take a little of that negative energy Del and spend it on a
trip to the library instead of the namecalling.  You have a lot to learn
technically and a closed mind isn't a good starting point.

>The issue is; does a mash out benefit someone's beer?
NO !.  The issue is "does no-mashout harm someone's beer." and that's a very
different premise.  I just stated that I have made perfectly normal beers w/
a bit lower extraction rate from no-mashout.  I never said they were better
in any way. You are arguing to the contrary.

>  1)improves foam stand.(your 'pro lit' supports this)

Kunze states that a long 70-72C rest at high pH improves foam.  I'm not
about to raise my mash pH to find out.  He suggest 65C(149F) and a lower
temp as well but without the reservations about pH.  This does not seem to
support or refute a 76C normal pH mashout for foam stand improvement.

>  2)improves lauter efficiency.( you stated up to 12%)
Yes, but up to 12% and usually 3-5%.  In HB terms even a reliable 12% loss
might be worth the saved time & trouble.  The variability is the killer, as
I have said.

>  3)denatures beta amylase to set the RDF at the desired point. (you'll try
to refute)

The EBC paper I refutes the RDF argument, as does my experience.  No-mashout
doesn't have a big impact on RDF. This is because the BA is greatly
diminished before the mashout,  and the difference in BA action through the
two temp regimes is not as different as you imagine.

>  4)promotes greatest alpha amylase activity to avoid unconverted
>      starch from entering the finished beer. (show me it ain't so)

Mashout causes the starch release in the first place.  It's like saying your
brand of chainsaw is better because it comes with a tourniquet.



>I specified 72 C to 74 C as a mash-out temperature. You pulled 76 out of
>the air [...]

There must be air in the archives then.  In HBD3277  Del wrote:

Del] So do a mash out at 170, it will stabilize the results of your mash
Del] temperature program and probably improve foam stability.

170F = 76.666C . So you Specified 76+C for mashout.  BTW many sources
include 72C as within normal mash range.




>Now you support what I was saying about mash-out (72-74 C) and foam, so
>what's the point?

Kunze's long, high pH rest at 70-72C is not a 76+C mashout at normal pH.
And in any case neither is *necessary* for entirely normal head.

The point was and remains that beers with completely normal head can be
brewed w/o mashout and I do NOT support what you were saying, that
no-mashout is inferior to normal beers.


>This point is a disagreement based on semantics. What you say may be
>'adequate'

I disagree  The foam with no-mashout can be described as entirely normal,
typical, unnoticeably different in my experience under my brewing
conditions.  If there is any difference say in a 12P all-malt ale and no
mashout, it is beyond casual notice.  There is nothing marginal or 'just
adequate' about the head.



> Would a high temperature mash out, 72 to 74 C, ensure degradation of
>lipoxygenase to help minimize HSA effects during the run-off to the grant
>and pumping to the kettle?

Maybe, but it's pure speculation, and it possible to argue the other side
(higher temps, higher lipo activity) just as well unless facts are
presented.

Lipo-oxygenase should not substantially survive the mash. The rate of
extinction is quite high even at 50C/122F.  But the amount needed to
catalyze a lot of the lipid oxidation is quite small too so ... .   The
point of the papers I quoted was that the reaction rate of the lipid
oxidation was limited by oxygen concentrations, not by  enzyme or lipid
substrate.  At some point (time&temp) that ceases to be true, but when is a
guess.

 -Steve





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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:12:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rick Magnan <magnan at jimmy.harvard.edu>
Subject: ...and the party never ends.

I have trouble sometimes racking lagers due to dissolved CO2 and I'm not 
sure whether its due to the yeast or the colder temperature.  Enough 
bubbles form to lose the siphon, usually at rather inconvenient times, 
like near the end.  Mainly, I'd like to know how to solve this - shake 
the carboy a bit?  Let it warm up?  Any suggestions?


To the Baron of Burradoo:  Where are the citations of BS from all the 
[homebrewing] books that lead us astray and overcomplicate matters?  Its
admittedly a somewhat onerous task if there are as many as you implied
but one that can be dealt with from the comforts of the porch with brew in 
hand.  The good Dr P reported a couple to me but hardly enough to slam any, 
much less all of them.  BTW - I think PaulN's posts are funny too but 
probably for different reasons than you.


Rick Magnan
Wellesley, MA


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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:47:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Prospective Pivo Pump Parts Purveyors


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Many thanks to Mike Megown, Jason Henning, Scott Abene, Nigel Porter and
ZEMO for their responses from which I gleaned the following list of
Prospective Pivo Pump Parts Purveyors:

  UK Brewing - Paul Pendyck: 717-293-8111 ukbrewing.com

  Brewin' Beagle - Ray & Di Kulka: 773-588-6240 brewinbeagle.com

  Banner Equipment CO Inc 
  3816 Carnation Street 
  Franklin Park, IL 60131
  (847) 678-1200 

I've made some contacts looking for parts and catalogs - not yet from all
of them - and will hopefully have my Beer Engine revving soon! 


 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:53:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Robert Lyon <lyona at umich.edu>
Subject: the immersion chiller shake


Jim wrote:

> I have found that the simple act of shaking one's immersion chiller
> gently in the cooling wort decreases the time required to cool it
> dramatically; before I 'discovered' this, my cooling times were on the
> order of 30 minutes, or even longer; since I started moving the chiller
> to and fro my wort cools from near boiling to 70F in 5-10 minutes            

Does this have any effect on how well your cold break settles to the
bottom of the kettle?  That's really a question I have for everyone: How
long does it take for a cold break to settle out while cooling?  I have a
15 gallon brewpot with a ball valve on the front so I'm looking for it to
get below that.  I didn't want to shake my chiller because I thought it
would kick up some cold break.

 -Aaron




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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:00:13 -0500
From: Tim Burkhart <tburkhart at dridesign.com>
Subject: RE: PrimeTabs

Bruce Carpenter asks about PimeTabs in HBD 3301...

I have used them to bottle and pig two batches now (Irish Red Ale and a
HefeWeizen)... I like 'em alot. 

They are convienient, sanitary, and simple to use. Instead of transferring
to a bottling bucket and boiling up corn sugar or DME, I bottle directly
from the racking port on my plastic conical... less mess, work, and bottling
fatigue.

The notes with the product recommend 2 tabs for english ales up to 5 for
highly carbonated styles. My first use of PrimeTabs was the Irish ale... I
used 2 per 12oz bottle and 50 for my party pig. Carbonation came out perfect
(on the lower end with a tight, thin foam stand and lace.). The notes
recommend to gently swirl (with a sanitized spoon) the CO2 out of the
suspension before bottling... I skipped this step and did not have any
adverse effects... maybe I'm playing with fire?

My only request for PrimeTabs and Mr. Venezia is a dispenser of some sort...
maybe like a Pez dispenser! How about one with Charlie Papazian's head on
it?

Tim Burkhart
Kansas City



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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:59:32 US/Eastern
From: spostek at voicenet.com
Subject: The brew that wanted out

Well last time I brewed it was the Weizen that
took it upon itself to throw the airlock about
three feet in the air, not once but twice.  This
morning as I sat in bed about 7am I heard a big
*BANG*.  I ran into the other room and there it
was.......SPLOOOOOGE.  The 4.5 gal of Hog Wild
Amber Ale from the Clone Brews book blew the lid
clear off my plastic fermenter and spread muck
all over the walls.  Thankfully the wife had left
for work already.

I now have a few questions since I finished the
string of curses that flowed freely as I scrubbed
the walls clean.

1.)  Is there any way to flat out avoid this?  I
had a few brews that I felt I didn't aerate enough
and this never happened to. Now that I shake
the crap out of the fermenter the first few days
of the ferment seem to be getting more and more
active (violent).  I have the bucket top that has
a hole with black rubber grommet just large enough
to place the airlock in without using a stopper.

2.)  After the mornings aventures I put the
fermenter, which is about 70F in the basement to
try to cool it down a bit and slow down the
ferment.  Would it help in the future to cool the
brew down faster below 70F?

3.)  What hopes do I have that this batch will not
have something really bad happen to it?  It was
about......actually 24 hours since I pitched the
yeast starter.

Thanks.
Steve
from lovely PA
spostek at voicenet.com


- ---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Voicenet WebMail.
      http://www.voicenet.com/webmail/




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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:05:00 -0500
From: "Dave Hinrichs" <dhinrichs at quannon.com>
Subject: 

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:37:46 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: re: Flow rate for chlorine removal


>  - if you have chlorinated water, effective removal requires
> a flow of 2-3
> USGPM or less per cubic foot of carbon.  With chloramine,
> this has to be
> reduced to 0.5 to 1.5 USGPM or less per cubic foot.  Nearly all
> municipalities in the US and Canada using a surface water source are
> switching to chloroamine for microbial control.

So what volume of carbon do your typical screw onto the faucet types of
filters have, and what would be a suitable flow rate for them?

Brian

I tested over 50 different models before I designed the one for Sears.
Typically .5-.75 GPM flow, as for volume all are less then a couple ounces.
It's been several years and the notes are at my former employers. Our test
showed good reduction at those flow rates with our local supply.

Personally I switched to a cartridge type filter as they are much easier to
maintain and cost less.


 Dave



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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:24:47 -0400
From: rob.green1 at firstunion.com
Subject: What's that stuff on my beer?

Hey y'all,

     I've noticed that whenever I leave a batch in the secondary for an
extended period of time i.e. 2+ weeks, some bubbly stuff forms on the
surface of the beer.  These 'islands of suspicion' are anywhere from 1/4
inch to 3/4 inch in size.  It doesn't affect the flavor of the beer, and
the beer doesn't have any 'wild' funky odors, but nonetheless I would like
to know just what that stuff is.  My theory is yeast by-product but my
local brew-shop guy says protein.  Not that I don't believe him but
confirmation of any theory would be nice.  In either case the beer doesn't
seem to be affected by these formations.  I am pretty thorough when
sanitizing my carboys and equipment, so I dont' think that's a problem
especially since the stuff doesn't appear until after a couple of weeks in
the secondary.  Probably nothing to worry about but curiosity has gotten
the better.  Thanks for any input.

Rob



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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:10:04 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: lagering questions

kysard at excite.com (let us know your name and location next time) asked

>if it is REALLY
>possible to brew CLEAR pilsner lagers like HernBrau on a 5 gallon
>scale with homebrew equipment: including soda kegs, CO2, 40 to 50F
>temp.

The quick answer is "Yes."

Oh, you wanted to know more?  I do it all the time with this one difference
 - I lager at around 32F because my fridge will go that low.  (I also have a
deep freeze with an external tempterature controller).  But lagering at 40F
will work too.  If you want to shorten the lagering time from a clarity
standpoint, you can use polyclar or silica gel (William's brewing sells the
latter).

I'm not familiar with Hernbrau but I make lagers all the time that are
virtually crystal clear - you can see a slight haze only if you shine a
flashlight through it.  They turn out with the quality of fresh commercial
lagers - and lots better than stale imports.  Check the HBD archives for
recipes.

Jeff


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:41:06 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re:  flaked out or loosing your liner

At 12:25 AM -0400 4/18/00, Request Address Only - No Articles wrote:
>Just brewed up a willy nilly version of a Ballantine IPA<snip>
>With this batch I experienced a 13% increase in system efficiency
<snip>
>Is the maize the
>culprit for the increased efficiency?  Does flaked maize
>contribute more by weight than grain?

I think that's your answer.  Nugey (1948) says that corn grits/meal give
about 75%, flakes 77.8% vs. 62-66% for different qualities of malt.  Rice
gives 78.5%.

Flaked maize is essentially the starchy endosperm and not much else.  No
aleurone, bran, husk, germ, and corn endosperm has less protein than barley.

Be sure to post your results.  It's gonna be one big beer!

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:11:38 EDT
From: Osew at aol.com
Subject: Dr. Cone 

Dr. Cone,

Should I oxygenate/aerate my wine juice/must before pitching the dry Lalvin 
starter or any of the liquid yeasts? 

I use a stone and bottled oxygen for 1 minute on my beers.  How long should I 
apply to wine?

Thank you and enjoy your retirement.  I hope all the beer and wine making 
friends you have made along the way keep you well supplied with quality 
beverages for the rest of your life.

Cheers, Wendell Ose, Reston, Va.


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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:15:56 -0700
From: "Nic Templeton" <ntempleton at iname.com>
Subject: Dead Beer?

Hey brewers-

I've got a English ESB in the secondary that tastes like malty water.  It
was in the primary for 5 days, and definatly looked ready to move, but once
I moved it, all ativity stopped.  I don't have a hydrometer reading for it,
as my hydrometer was broken at the time.  It doesn't taste skunky or soured,
but it definatly isn't beer.  I orginally thought that it needed more
hopping, but
it already has an extra oz. of bittering hops over what the recipe called
for.
Any suggestions how I can try a fix this batch?

I also have a porter in the primary that just got moved to a secondary last
night.  I'm worried that this batch has gone skunky.  It smells well enough
(as best as I can tell anyway, the Scotchish Broom is starting to bloom, and
that
has got my nose all messed-up) but has a rather strong after-taste best
described as "orange like".  I went ahead and racked it to the secondary,
hoping that this flavor will fade if it sits awhile.  I'm planning on
bottling it
in a week (should I give it longer?) or so, and stashing it somewhere and
letting
it sit.  Any suggestions?

Thanks guys, as always, any suggestions, opinions, and off-handed comments
are accepted.

Cheers,
Nic Templeton
Federal Way, Wa




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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:37:06 PDT
From: "Foster Jason" <jasfoster at hotmail.com>
Subject: More on iodophor

Since my question last week, I have received a number of communications on 
iodophor, including some useful abstracts from studies.

However, having read it, plus some additional research on my own, I note 
that most of the studies I have seen deal with skin contact. I also know 
most occupational exposure limits address inhalation and skin contact.

My question relates to ingestion. What effects are there on the ingestion of 
iodine?

Some of the discussion has noted that the concentration after drying, etc. 
would be VERY small. This is true. However, a few beer later ...

I realize we won't resolve this matter with any conclusiveness. That much is 
clear. I feel it is healthy to keep asking the questions and inquiring about 
the safety of some of these things.

Keep brewing all,

Jason Foster
Edmonton, AB
Canada
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:41:10 -0600
From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: Big Brew

Jethro Gump reminded me today that I have yet to post that the Big Brew
section of beertown is accepting site registrations for Big Brew 2000.
Here's a link to the Big Brew section of beertown,
http://beertown.org/AHA/BB2000/bb2000conf.htm.

Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org)
Director, American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302        voice(303)447-0816 x 122
fax (303) 447-2825
Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org





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