---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Yeast Q- John Palmer-On Dr. Cone's behalf ("Rob Moline")
  Water Numbers for Philadelphia? (Bill.X.Wible)
  Ringwood ale yeast & diacetyl rest (Ryan McCammon)
  Re: Wheat flour (Jeff Renner)
  Stupid Beer Tricks (RCAYOT)
  Michael Jackson in Texas ("St. Patrick's")
  Mac & Jack's African Amber (Nathan Kanous)
  Good Stuff (Epic8383)
  "spotie", "dooky-wah", and "shleb" ("Jeffry D Luck")
  Belgium visit ("Francois Zinserling")
  off flavors and possible causes (Steven Gibbs)
  wacky wort whirlers (Jim Adwell)
  Mash-hopping results ("G. M. Remake")
  Water (AJ)
  Yeast propagator ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Salute to a proud fellow brewer! ("Brett A. Spivy")
  non-Alienating Alliterative Alusions and dangerous peroxides. ("Dr. Pivo")
  Yeast questions (kevin m mueller)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:14:24 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Yeast Q- John Palmer-On Dr. Cone's behalf 

Glycogen/Trehalose
Dear Rob,
Could you ask Dr. Cone to explain how/what purpose glycogen (and
trehalose??) is used by the yeast cell during dormancy (ie. after
fermentation, after starter build-up) and how it is used during the
lagtime ie. when the yeast is pitched to an oxygenated wort?
And, how/when does the yeast build up the glycogen reserves during
fermentation. As the gravity drops, does the yeast sense this and
start diverting food to these stores? Like a bear storing fat for the
winter?
John Palmer


Subject: Role of Glycogen in Yeast
Dear Rob,
I realise that this message will not contain enough information or detail
for the Questioners needs but due to the CBC in Milwaukee this week Clayton,
Tobias and myself have been unable to cope with questions.  By chance Tobias
asked me to check his mail this afternoon and in doing so we became aware of
this question.  However, due to his absence from our lab I have not really
had the time I would have liked to provide you with the best information.
Given more time I would also have been able to provide good references.  At
the moment I would use Walker, Yeast physiology and biotechnology (1998) or
Yeast Sugar Metabolism - edited by Zimmerman and Entian 1998.  The first of
these references is a good general yeast book aimed at undergrad students
although good also for postgrads and others.  The second is for postgrads or
speicific biochem types, much mor indepth and genetic.

Glycogen = storage carbohydrate essential in the lag phase for sterol
production.  Glycogen breakdown coincides with sterol synthesis which
appears to be essential for good brewing yeast, poor breakdown of glycogen
or low levels of glycogen may lead to a yeast culture with a reduced sterol
content and poor fermentation.   Glycogen is generally accumulated in yeast
while the glucose/sugar level is still significant.  It's accumulation
levelling off as the yeast enters stationary phase.  Degradation during
stationary phase is generally very slow.  It is essential during yeast
handling between brews that the yeast is not exposed to air.  The more air
the yeast comes in contact with the more glycogen is degraded.  This can
lead to a glycogen depleted yeast when pitched into wort resulting in a poor
yeast performance.  Handling should be mininmised and disturbance of the
yeast also.   The bear storing fat for the winter analogy is probably a fair
one, but the glycogen is mainly for re-vitalising the yeast when the 'good
times' roll around again.

Trehalose = primarily a stress protectant or 'compatible solute' - fancy
name for a compound that can act as a water replacement.  Trehalose, by
virtue of its ability to act like water is the best of all the natural
carbohydrates at protecting organisms against stresses, particularly
dehydration (dessication).  In brewing the stress of high gravities, higher
temperatures, ethanol etc all induce the accumulation of this disaccharide
in yeast.  Trehalose is normally accumulated later in the growth of yeast
than glycogen, just at the deccelerating phase and should also remain in the
yeast through the stationary phase.  It appears to play an energy reserve
roll in sporulation but I digress.  Some reporters have found that yeast
will actually accumulate trehalose earlier during its growth when the major
sugar is maltose, relevant to brewing!  However, in general the level of
trehalose can often be used to determine the physiological state of the
cell.  Under 'normal' conditions, e.g. not high sugar, temp etc.  trehalose
is normally low in the cell 1-2% of the dry weight, if you get 5-10% the
cell is probably a little 'uncomfortable but coping', higher than 10%
generally means the yeast is stressed out.  Dry yeast in home brew kits has
high trehalose as this is essential in allowing the rehydration to occur
successfully.

I hope this can be of some use!

>From Forbes, On behalf of Clayton and Tobias



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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:13:25 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Water Numbers for Philadelphia?



Hello all.

Does anybody have the water chemistry numbers for the
Philadelphia area water supply?  I'm having a hard time getting
these.  Thanks in advance.

Bill Wible




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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:35:48 -0400 
From: Ryan McCammon <mccammon at isr.umich.edu>
Subject: Ringwood ale yeast & diacetyl rest

A few months ago, I bought a smack pack of Ringwood ale yeast (why, I'm not
sure, considering that I live less than 2 miles from a Ringwood brewpub
where I assume I could just ask for some).  In any case, I'm looking for
advice on running a successful fermentation with this yeast.

I understand that it needs a well oxygenated wort, so I wonder if it is
necessary to do more than my SOP of splashing the wort around in the carboy
until there is a good amount of froth.  What about its high flocculation?
Will I need to rouse the yeast during fermentation?  

Finally, what about diacetyl?  Wyeast says, "Thorough diacetyl rest is
recommended after fermentation is complete."  What is the appropriate
temperature for a diacetyl rest with an ale yeast?  What's the big idea of
saying "after fermentation is complete(?)"  I thought that a diacetyl rest
was typically carried out by allowing the last one-third of the primary
fermentation to occur at a rather higher temperature than the first
two-thirds.  If one is to realize the benefits of the quick reabsorbtion of
fermentation byproducts via a diacetyl rest, does the fermentation have to
be active at the time of the rest?

What sort of experiences have other had with this yeast?  I suspect that it
is well-suited to English style ales, but is this the style for which it was
originally used?  Why does Wyeast refer to it as a "notorious" yeast?

What say ye, o' wise ones?

Ryan McCammon
Ann Arbor, Michigan
I mean, this rennerian thing is cute and all, but really...


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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 10:35:54 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Wheat flour

Graham Sanders <GrahamS at bsa.qld.gov.au>, using such quaint down-underisms as:

>"G'day all," "Ta!" and "Shout," asks
>
>I simple question.

Hmm, must be another quaint figure of speech. ;-)

>How much wheat flour equates to a given amount of raw wheat grain or wheat
>malt.

I'm not sure about Australian flour, but most white flours represent about
70% of the wheat by weight.  Most but not all of what is removed is the
bran and germ - some of it is endosperm that is too closely attached to the
bran to be removed and/or separated.  This latter would still be converted
if the whole grain were mashed.  So I would guess that you ought to get
something like 20-25% more extract than you would with whole wheat.  That
ought to be close enough.  Of course, if you get a horribly stuck mash, all
bets are off.

If you have a choice, choose lower protein flour.  This has two advantages
 - more carbohydrates, which convert to fermentable sugars, and less chance
of a stuck mash from gluey glutens.

Jeff

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: 02 May 2000 09:09:49 -0400
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: Stupid Beer Tricks

     While we are on the subject of stupid beer tricks, I would like to 
     remind folks of the early days of (my) homebrewing.  
     
     It was about 1970, some friends of mine had had some very bad 
     homebrew, and decided they could certainly make better.  They went to 
     Hartford Ct to the nearest Wine/Beer supply store, about thirty miles 
     away, and purchased a can of hopped malt extract, some corn sugar, and 
     Fred Ekhardt's (sp?) book "A Treatise on Lager Beer"  Well they brewed 
     a steam beer, and the results were really quite good (honest, even by 
     today's standards!).  I joined them in their endeavors and for the 
     next fifteen years we occasionally brewed beer, most of it was really 
     bad!  
     
     We had no information other than that little booklet, we were not 
     satisfied with our product, and were about to  give up on the hobby 
     when I purchase Charlie Papazian's "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing"  
     Now I really have to say, there WAS a lot of hype in that book, but 
     for the time, it had the critical information I needed to make good 
     homebrew, from GRAIN! Let us not forget the early days, lest we take 
     for granted some of the sources of information we have today, such as 
     what is available in print and on the WEB.  Having seen this with my 
     own eyes, I can only imagine the amount of information that has been 
     disseminated in regards to other topics!  It boggles my mind anyway!
     
     Recent discussions also remind me that for the most part we are 
     homebrewers.  Some of the topics (Mashout's effect on foam stand for 
     one) may or may not have important effects for commercial breweries, 
     but for homebrewers, it may not be.  For example, a commercial brewery 
     may save 0.1% on a particular procedural step, well when you make beer 
     24hours a day 7 days a week, this can add up to significant $$$.  It 
     may even have a somewhat beneficial effect on the finished product.  
     What I am trying to get to is that most homebrewers I know have 
     trouble making even the simplest beers the same every time.  There are 
     so many variables that I know I don't control, that trying to claim 
     that a brewing practice has or has not an effect without laboratory 
     type of control is really not that helpful to this discussion.  As a 
     newbie, I believed a lot of garbage that was thrown at me, now I know 
     better.  Go back and reread some of the early homebrewing books by 
     Miller, and others, the recipies, mash schedules, etc. are WAY off of 
     what is now commonly practiced (90 min mash minimum claimed by Miller, 
     excessive Munich Malt in a Vienna or Pilsner style, claims of poor 
     results with dry yeast, the necessity of decoction mashing for "true" 
     continental character...)  this leads me to a possible discussion that 
     might help here:
     
     What are the currently "accepted" (momilies?) that will soon be, or 
     should be discarded by the homebrewing community?
     
     How about: "Don't use bleach to sanitize stainless steel, it will 
     corrode it?"
     
     How about it?  Can we generate a list of things we should question 
     that are now current practice?
     
     Roger Ayotte



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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:54:20 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com>
Subject: Michael Jackson in Texas

Michael Jackson in Texas

Just a quick invitation to the Michael Jackson events in Austin and San
Antonio this weekend.
1. Saturday evening 6 pm at Dog and Duck Pub, Austin---free event, book
signing
2. Sunday 12 noon at Blue Star Brewpub, San Antonio, beer tasting $25.
about 10 tickets remaining.
3.  Sunday 5 pm at Bitter End, Austin   Beer Dinner $70 or $55. about 20
tickets remaining.

Give us a call or call the respective brewpubs for tickets and info.

Lynne O'Connor


St. Patrick's of Texas
Brewers Supply
1828 Fleischer Drive
Austin, Texas 78728 USA
512-989-9727
512-989-8982 fax
www.stpats.com







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Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:49:23 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Mac & Jack's African Amber

Hi All,
I've got a friend that recently returned from a trip to the Pacific 
Northwest.  It seems that he found Mac & Jack's African Amber to be to his 
liking.  Anybody got any tips on this beer's formulation?  I couldn't find 
a website, but if anybody's got a web address for Mac & Jack's, that would 
help as well.  Any info would be appreciated.  TIA.
nathan in madison, wi


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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 11:29:30 EDT
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: Good Stuff

     Dear Collective,
   There have been some great posts lately, many thanks to Dr. Cone for his 
time and expertise. Rich Foote's water looks pretty soft, but I'd like to see 
carbonate and total alkalinity numbers to be sure. John Watts points out the 
stupidity of the press and the neo-prohibitionist CDC in their misuse of 
statistics. Finally, the mental image of Doc Pivo unintentionally skiing down 
his staicase is just too much!
    Gus Rappold
P.S. My idiocy was to try an all grain 5 gal. barleywine on my kitchen 
stove-2 mashes and many boiling pots-it took about 20 or so hours to complete 
and the beer was somewhat astringent.


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Date: 02 May 2000 09:21:33 -0700
From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com>
Subject: "spotie", "dooky-wah", and "shleb"

Dr. Pivo a.k.a. dp at pivo.w.se wrote:

>2) It has a very good "foaming action" as the oxygen is liberated,
>helping to remove "spotie", "dooky-wah", and "shleb".

Ok, people, when you start using these technical terms, you have 
to give us new guys the definitions.  ...Actually, I've been reading 
HBD for a year now, and I have no idea what it is that this foaming
action actually removes.  ...And seeing the posts from Burradoo
lately, I'm not sure I really want to know.

Jeff Luck
Salt Lake City, UT   USA
Having a wonderful wine, wish you were beer.




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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:42:36 +0200
From: "Francois Zinserling" <francois at designtech.co.za>
Subject: Belgium visit

My wife will be visiting a friend in Belgium in June.
What can she get me from there by way of
yeast, hops, homebrew, else  ??
If I don't come up with something, I'll be getting
chocolates or a lace umbrella !!!
Help, guys !

Cheers
ZING (ZA)



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Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:47:16 -0700
From: Steven Gibbs <gibbs at lightspeed.net>
Subject: off flavors and possible causes

Bruce Taber asked:
      <<<<<<<< < After 10 years of brewing with almost no spoiled
batches, I now find
myself with a recurring problem.  Every second batch over the last 6
batches
has been infected.  I have gone anal with my sanitizing, doing both a
bleach
soak and isodor on everything and I haven't changed any other procedures
but
I can't find the cause.  I figure I may have better luck finding the
cause
if I could identify the type of infection.
        I have read the descriptions of the various types of infections
(diacetyl, DMS, ester, phenolic) many times but I'm still not sure which
it
is (my best guess is phenolic).  There are many commercial beers that
have a
similar flavor component to what I consider the off-flavor in my beers.
It
can be found in Orval as well as most of the Trappist beers, also
Hoegaarden
and the German Schneider Weisse to name a few.  If anyone can put a name
to
the flavor component that I am trying to find, please let me know.  And
if
you can give suggestions as to a cure, I would be eternally in your debt

(so-to-speak).

Bruce Taber
Almonte, Ont. Canada
bruce.taber.ca>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bruce:

The same problem happened to several brew buddies and me a couple of
years ago.  I hope I'm not being overly simplistic, but the only real
analysis is in the route of the cooled wort and the fermenter.  I am
assuming good heathy uncontminated yeast is being used, so I would look
to the ball-lock valve on your brewing kettle and ask yourself whether
or not you completely tore it apart, washed and sanitized the
components, put it back together, and boil the entire valvebefor using
it on the outflow line of cooled wort.  What also helps is to plug the
the boiling wort for 15-20 minutes.  If you do all of these things aned
still get an off flavor I would seriously check your fermenters and
component parts.  I ferment in stainless 5 gal. soda kegs and I clean
and sanitize the valves on them almost as much as I said on the brew
kettle valve.  Let me know how it goes because the problems from the
contaminated ball-valve gave me flavors like those you described.

Steve Gibbs






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Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 13:30:58 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: wacky wort whirlers

Dr. Pivo scribes:

"Jim Adwell made a clever little stirring device which he reported a few
issues back, and wonders if it would shorten his heating times to boil,
and grouses about his pecunious propane supplier (almost an
alliteration... I'll give me a "2")."

That would be "proximal pecunious propane provider", and I would be a
"peripatetic purchaser of precious propane". ("7")  But I digress...

Actually my post was more about the mechanical banging together of various
protein and other molecules, such as one would find in a rolling boil, say,
and whether my wort stirrer would be useful as a partial or complete
substitute for a rolling boil.  The savings in propane would be a
fortuitous side-effect.

Dr. Pivo's 'mantle' is clever, and obvious in hindsight, as so many things
are, and I might just try it.  Without any evidence, or much thought about
it, either, I would be concerned that thin aluminum sheeting would melt in
use; the iron supports above my burner get red-hot in use.  But we shall
see...

I will not recount here my stupidest brewer's trick, save to note that it
involved a closet, excessive heat, enormous quantites of wort, hops, and
sludge, and many, many hours of cleanup time.  And a deceased mouse.

Cheers, Jim

Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptdprolog.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:30:40 -0600
From: "G. M. Remake" <gremake at gsbpop.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Mash-hopping results

Hello all,

Recently I bottled a cream ale for which I tried mash hopping for the first
time.  I used only the mash hops (1.5 oz. of Hallertau and 1.5 oz. Saaz
flowers) and bittering hops (0.5 oz. Perle and 2 oz. Hallertau).  I went
strong on the mash hop quantities to make sure I could detect the effects,
and I erroneously assumed that mash hop utilization would be close to 0%.

Well, the mash hops effects are certainly obvious.  While there is zero hop
aroma, as expected, the flavor contribution is enormous.  I've never gotten
that kind of flavor when I've tried to purposefully.  I formulated the
recipe for about 23 IBUs, but it's more bitter than that.  A recent post
suggested 10% utilization for mash hops, which would put the recipe at
about 33 IBUs, and that seems about right.  The bitterness level and
particularly the flavor are not at all what I intended in this recipe, but
it resulted in a wonderfully flavorful beer.

Another surprise in this batch was an unexplained increase in my efficiency
(80% vs. 72%).  I haven't tested it yet but I suspect the mash hopping
contributed to the increase, as that was my only process change.
Unfortunately, I won't be brewing again until this fall, but I'm really
looking forward to brewing that next IPA with mash hops (and planning for
them correctly).

Cheers!

Greg


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Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 13:45:01 -0400
From: AJ <email at domain.com>
Subject: Water

Rick Foote posted "yet another water post" asking some questions about
his very soft water. First comment is that Rick is the "victim" of his
typical Cooperative Extension Service who just do not understand that
the noblest use to which water can be put is the brewing of beer and
thus report all manner of information useless to the brewer without any
mention of the things which are important to us. Here is where I stick
in my standard pitch about the significant seven parameters (pH, calcium
hardness, magnesium hardness, alkalinity, chloride, sulfate and
chlorine) and how it is  simple  to measure all of these yourself (with
the exception of sulfate) using relatively inexpensive kits.

Anyway, looking at Rick's water we see that it is very soft. I assume
that the Ca and Mg numbers are reported as the ion. Thus the calcium
hardness is about 11 and the magnesium hardness about 7 for a total of
18 mg/L as calcium carbonate. Taking the hardness together with the
sodium and potassium levels it is plain that there cannot be many anions
in the water either. The sum of all the cations present in appreciable
quantity amounts to 0.66 mEq/L and so the sum of all the anions must be
equal to this same number. Were all the anions bicarbonate the
alkalinity of the water would be 33 mg/L as CaCO3 (the bicarbonate ion
concentration: 40 mg/L). This is a pretty low alkalinity but it  is very
unlikely that all the anions are bicarb. There is almost certainly some
chloride and probably sulfate. Assuming that one third of the anions
are, respectively, bicarbonate, sulfate and chloride, the alkalinity of
the water would be 11, the sulfate level 10 mg/L and the chloride 8
mg/L. The chloride and sulfate are, thus, most probably at levels where
they will have little or no effect on the taste of the beer and will
have to be supplemented for roundness/fullness and/or augmentation of
hops bitterness.

WRT to the Mn - never seen it higher than Fe before but note that the
limit here is the secondary limit i.e. the level above which the water
may taste unpleasant, not the level at which harm will be done. Try
aerating the water to oxidize the Mn to the point where it forms the
brown sludge more readily. This aeration will also release CO2 which is
responsible for the low pH not that this is important WRT the mash
because the buffering capacity of this water is so small but the higher
pH aids in the formation of the Mn sludge. Filter the aerated water.
This may take care of the Mn without further treatment.



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Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 14:43:54 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Yeast propagator

On Mon, 1 May 2000 Bill.X.Wible wrote:

>     So the unitank or cylindroconical fermentor was invented to allow the
>yeast to be removed during primary fermentation, eliminating the need for
>redundant tanks.  These tanks are full batch fermentors, and are not
designed
>specifically for starting yeast.  Yeast propagation is just an additional
>benefit of these systems.

Understood, however we're talking two different animals here.  Read the
subject.  It has to do with propogators, not fermenters.  Propogators of a
cylindro-conical design *ARE* used in many commercial and micro breweries
for the continuous propogation and collection of yeasts utilized in the main
fermenters.  Are you saying that they are not?

While it's been debated in this forum, /ad nauseum/, the general consensus
(of the starter proponents) is that somewhere between a 1 quart and 2 gallon
starter may meet some of these individuals' requirements for achieving a
pitching rate which matches the commercial scale reccomendations.  The point
of this exercise is to find a cost-effective design for a yeast propogator
which will allow the easy selection of the more desirable middle yeast layer
for those who are of the 1/2 gal - 2 gal starter camps.  A number of people
have expressed their interest in this subject to me privately, so I decided
to continue in a public forum.

>      Lastly, I was surprised by the comment that 'most of us are using
bleach
>as a sanitizer'.  I'm not.  I use Star San.  Those of you who are using
bleach
>should reconsider that choice.  Bleach requires much rinsing.  And if the
bugs
>are in your tap water, you're putting them right back into your vessels
after
>sanitizing.  Additionally, use of bleach for sanitizing is probably the
biggest
>contributor of phenols to your beer, when it is not rinsed thoroughly.
Star San
>is worth what it costs.

OK, 'many' people use it.  Hell, I don't even use it anymore except to soak
my plastic stuff in after use.  I agree, brewing equipment soaked in bleach
and improperly rinsed can lead to some nasty stankin' brew.  Personally, I
switched to buffered caustic followed by iodophor since the majority of my
equipment is stainless and I keg my beer.  I don't know the exact chemical
ingredients in Star San, but I don't trust *ANY* no-rinse sanitizer any
farther than I can throw it.  So I always do a rinse with boiling water.  No
chlorophenols in my beer!


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 13:13:05 -0500
From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com>
Subject: Salute to a proud fellow brewer!

I have just returned to Shreveport, LA after a five (5) day trip to the
Ozark Hills.  It was a great time and I'm lucky to work for a company
that does a retreat for the entire "front office" like this every year,
but as you know a week with the bosses morning, noon, and night is
stressful under the best of circumstances.  Even with the Harley riding
every day, the blueberry wine, the homebrew, and the copious amounts of
various brown liquors, the mental fatigue sets in from "being on" for
that long of a time.

Then as I rolled on home at ~ one hundred and twenty kilometers per hour
(120 Kph) --bike was build for a Canadian PD before I got it -- I saw a
fellow spirit.  A true friend.  One who thinks along the same universal
lines as I.  My caravan and I motored past a metallic gold (I think it
was gold) Jeep Cherokee (or some similar SUV type vehicle) with the
Vanity Plate: I Brew.

My spirits lifted by the humor and bent of my fellow traveler, my
thoughts turned to the brown ale on tap at the Stole Cactus Brewery and
thoughts of home.  You made my day, anonymous sojourner.

Thanx . . .
Brett A. Spivy
Stolen Cactus Brewery

PS -- If you are a member of this digest, fellow brewer / traveler, drop
me a line.




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Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:52:04 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: non-Alienating Alliterative Alusions and dangerous peroxides.

I stumbled at two, but got some brilliant improvements:
what say yee about:

> pecunious propane purveyor
>pecunious propane propietor
or...my favourite...
>pecunious propane peddler?

(original authors names withheld, 'cause I didn't get 'round to asking them)

I thumped myself mightily on the head when I read these more blessed
suggestions, when I could not come up with them myself.

On another note from the "Litigious Land" (I can't get a third here
either, and perhaps the improvements might not be so forthcoming, but
I'd love to hear them!.... just repeat after me... "Nobody said the
coffee was hot, Nobody said the.... etc.")

Regarding my suggestion to purchase 35 percent hydrogen peroxide and
then dilute it.

>  Get a drop of it on exposed skin and watch your skin turn
> white as it oxidizes your skin.

I've noticed the same effect with "house paint". I wash them both off.
The times I've spilled H2O2 on my hands (dozens); I squirt them off with
water. I'm always surprised how it doesn't "burn" with that short
exposure time.  If my hands look like the "Leper of Calcutta", it's not
because of that.  I promise.

But then again, one can't be too careful.  I've actually read here where
people are recommending "stoves" for brewing on.

Those can be incredibly nasty things, and put your hand on the "burner"
and you'll soon know about it! With enough sloppiness you can burn the
whole house down!

We've got one of these at work, and I only allow employees to approach
it with a full G-suit on.  No suing here, thank you.

I was suggesting purchasing concentrated material, since it is cheap,
and homebrewers are a renowned miserly group.

You can purchase 3 percent as a standard "chemists" product for about
100 times the price if you wish to (except in Australia where it is 6
percent... sort of a "tall poppy" syndrome I guess).

I think if you really want to shrink your dollar, you can buy 3 percent
with a little boric acid chucked in ("soft contact lens" cleaning
material with the "catalyst" system) for about 1000 times the cost.

For me it matters naught. You decide where you want to spend your money,
and how careful you want to be with potentially dangerous stuff.

I will firmly stand by my assertion that this is nothing to either pour
in your eyes or bathe your children in.

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:57:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: kevin m mueller <kmmuellr at engin.umd.umich.edu>
Subject: Yeast questions

I figured I'd better get this in as soon as possible, since May 6 is fast
approaching...

On Saturday (29 April) I decided to feed a large slurry of Wyeast 1056
that I had pulled from a primary and stored after washing with distilled
water (similar procedure to the ones in yeast faqs).  The next day when I
was rousing and aerating, I put my nose to the neck of the 2.5 gal carboy
that I was using and the smell nearly knocked me over.  Its a hard smell 
to describe, but it was very sharp on my nose.

So, I figure I'd better go and buy a new smack-pack and get it
started.  Last night I pitched it into some fresh wort (all of my
sanitation has been standard, ie wash, brush, hot water and
idophor).  This morning when aerating, I got the same smell, although not
as strong.  I haven't tasted the wort/beer yet as it has quite a bit of
suspended yeast in it.

First question is:  Can any of you guess what that smell is?  I wasn't
surprised that I got an infection (if thats what it is) in the first
batch, as thats the first time I ever saved/reused yeast.  However, I was
quite surprised to get the same smell again with a fresh batch (different
container too!)  Or is that a typical smell (as I don't tend to take big
sniffs of my yeast)?

Second, and not related to this batch:  While stepping up the yeast, lets
say you start with a quart starter.  The yeast grows till it has reaches
maximum density (? is that right?), then you add more wort and it grows
more... Much of what I read says to double the volume of wort that the
yeast is in.  Will the yeast continue to grow if I only put in half as
much volume, or will they just consume the sugars?  Say I start with a
quart, then add half of a quart the next day versus another full quart.

Thanks in advance, and personal e-mail is fine (actually preferable if I
have to start another starter!)

Kevin Mueller
kmmuellr at engin.umd.umich.edu
kmuell18 at visteon.com



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