---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Rims (Alan Davies)
  Rod Prather, Inspiration And Aussie Terminology ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  re: AHA and Zymurgy back issues (Bill.X.Wible)
  Ray Daniels "honey" issue? (Bill.X.Wible)
  Re: beechwood (Jeff Renner)
  washing machine/mashtun (Tombrau)
  malt extract ("A.Carminati")
  hot water heater temp (Pete Cooke)
  re: abbreviations (Lou.Heavner)
  Abbreviations ??? (Victor Macias)
  Gott Cooler & mini-keg bung (Dana Edgell)
  RE: Ray Daniels "honey" issue? ("Paul Gatza")
  re: Ray Daniels "honey" issue (Bill.X.Wible)
  Gott ("Houseman, David L")
  Beechwood ("Houseman, David L")
  Kudos for HBD and her readers! ("Spence")
  Freezing Malt Extract and Grains ("Ross D. Potter")
  Aging of fermented beer (Bret Morrow)
  expanded "icebox" (Bret Morrow)
  10 gallon Keg ("J. Matthew Saunders")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:55:56 +1000
From: Alan Davies <afjc at cnl.com.au>
Subject: Rims

To Spence Graham,
For Rims design try,
http://users.deltanet.com/"katz/3tier/3tier.htm. check out links. If not
satisfactory email me
afjc at cnl.com.au
Alan Davies Australia.







graham



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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:23:10 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Rod Prather, Inspiration And Aussie Terminology

I don't know if it has occurred to anyone else, but Rod Prather demonstrates
an amazingly quick wit and shows he doesn't miss much. I'm still laughing at
his "Drinking all of that in a day or two" post. I wish I could be that
sharp. The best I can manage is to point out to Jeff Renner that his recent
post on Ayinger yeast talked of fermentation at 50F which he kindly
converted for us to Celsius as 15C. But it is in fact 10C. Sorry Jeff, not
meaning to be a smart arse, I'm sure you would have wanted that corrected
before any of us metric nuts went ahead and "buggered it up". Actually, it
was Regan Pallandi who saw the error, but unlike me, he wouldn't waste his
time bringing it to anyone's attention.

Rod Prather, in recent converse with Phil Sides mentioned that older Aussies
(I guess that means me) hadn't caught up with the changing English now used
by all modern English speaking countries. In essence he noted the origins of
the word "fag" (which was interesting) and it's demise going back to the
60's, or even 50's.

>From a beer point of view, lots of things from the 50's and 60's have been
lost in this country. I applaud Jeff Renner for his efforts in reviving CAP
and am myself interested in doing the same, but for me of course, CAP stands
for Classic Australian Pilsener.

Before moving to Burradoo, my old watering hole was a mixture of old and
new. One character, known as "Snappy Tom" (he was a cranky old bastard with
whom no one wanted to associate - cept of course me, who will drink with
anyone) threw down his glass in disgust and said "they are serving us shit -
I once could walk in here and smell the beer"!
This got me thinking. Fosters, XXXX, Reschs and many other names probably
were once good beers. But similar to the main stream beers in America, these
days they are bland shadows of their previous existence. Why did this
happen? My theory is that the modern owners of these labels tried hard to
make beer a drink for everyone (including women - and I don't say this in a
derogative way) and so the flavour and bitterness had to be got rid of.
The result - very bland beer.

My interest (like Jeff's) is to revive the beers of Australia as they once
were. I know this is also of special interest to Regan. We have both
produced versions of what we imagine the beers once were. More bitter and
with plenty of flavour. The use of cereals also has been employed. We have
Jeff Renner to thank for advice here.

Anyone else interested? let me know. In the mean time, should I encounter
Rod Prather at the breakfast table, I will politely ask him to "smack me in
the eye with a hunk of dotcha"
This is (or was) the Aussie way of asking someone to pass over a slice of
bread. I will be interested to see if Rod knows the origin of that one!

Cheers
Phil





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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:12:54 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: re: AHA and Zymurgy back issues



>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:03:14 +1000
>From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com>
>Subject: AHA and Zymurgy back issues
>
>Hello All,
>Regarding the AHA and Zymurgy back issues.  On a number of times I have
>ordered back issues of Zymurgy. Every single time I was informed that only
>photocopied issues were available.  Frankly, I think it is a great service
>that AHA will photocopy back issues and make them available at a reasonable
>cost.  I agree that one should be informed that the issue is only available
>as a photocopy.  However AHA should be congratulated for providing this
>service.
>
>Also, I must agree that non-members of an organization do not have much
>business lobbying for a particular candidate.  They can, of course,  have an
>opinion.  But to campaign for a candidate in such a group can be expected to
>cause some hard feelings.
>
>Rick Wood
>brewing on Guam

Rick,

I agree this is a great service.  I ordered 3 special issues from the internet,
without calling customer service.  2 of the 3 I received were photocopies.
The photocopied issues I received were very well done, readable, and with
stiff covers and all.  But they're still black and white photocopies of a color
magazine.

My complaint with it is that when you order the back issues from the internet,
there is no warning that you will be receiving a photocopied version.  When
you order a back issue of Zymurgy, and all that's available is a photocopy,
a courtesy email should be sent informing you that you will be getting a
photocopy, and offering the choice to accept it or not.  That's all I'm saying.
Some special issues, like the one hop issue, have a big pull out chart.  How
do they photocopy that?  If you don't get an original mag, you don't get the
chart.  And the cost is the same as for the original mag.

Bill




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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:39:02 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Ray Daniels "honey" issue?



>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:30:20 -0600
>From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org>
>Subject: Gott Bulkhead?/Zymurgy
>
> Ray's first issue as editor (May/June) is clearly the best we have had
>in my two years at the AHA.
>
>Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org)
>Director, American Homebrewers Association
>736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302        voice(303)447-0816 x 122
>fax (303) 447-2825
>Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org

Paul,

  Not to pick a fight, but are you talking about that 'honey' issue, that was
mostly
about mead, and didn't even have many beer articles or recipies in it?  I beg to
differ, that was NOT even one of the best issues in the last year.  Frankly, I
was
expecting better.  I'm curious what others think.

Bill




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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:32:18 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: beechwood

More about beechwood aging.

At the MCAB II conference (Spence - that's Master Championship of Amateur
Brewing) in St. Louis in March, the head brewer (Steve Michalak sp?) of the
Anheuser Busch pilot brewery gave a technical talk.  Either during it or at
some other time (I actually think it was outside the pilot brewery while we
were waiting to go in for a tour) he claimed that A/B yeast is unique in
several respects, including that it exactly and uniquely fits into the
pores in beechwood, allowing it to settle.  I must say that he was really a
company man, so I was and am skeptical.  I was sure, and Rich Sieben
confirms, that other breweries used beechwood chips.  As a matter of fact,
other breweries used the term "chip tanks" for the tanks.  He claimed that
despite some well know beer writer saying that they used aluminum chips,
that this was absolutely not true.  They'd love to because it would be
cheaper, but they have investigated all kinds of other materials without
success.  He also claimed that other yeasts didn't work.  Again I am
skeptical given what I understand about US lager history.  One more claim -
he said that while Anheuser (or maybe it was Busch) brought the yeast back
from Europe, presumably Budvar, they have been unable to find any trace of
it in Europe using DNA fingerprinting.

I understand that popsickle sticks are beechwood.  Hobby and craft stores
sell new ones.  A/B boils them with bicarbonate of soda in several changes
until there is no color or flavor extracted prior to using them.  Probably
longer than 15 minutes.

Rich mentioned that he thought that barrels and fermenters were made of
beechwood.  I've never hear that although it may be true.  Oak was common
for barrels and cypress, redwood, larch or Oregon pine for fermenters.

Thanks for the pointer to your cousin's web page on the old family brewery,
Rich.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:33:57 EDT
From: Tombrau at aol.com
Subject: washing machine/mashtun

Brewbro's

In my infinite ability to bring beer into any subject, I made a discovery 
working on my washing machine. It has potential to be a shitn'get, backwoods, 
mashtun.  I don't think I will ever build one but it is fun to think about. 

Like setting my waterheater thermostat to 160f , selecting hot water wash, 
dumping in course milled grain and let her go. The wash cycle would be 
doughing in,  followed by a short simple mash. The next cycle would be empty, 
rinse and spin. This could serve as a "vorlaff" (probably very needed by now) 
with the drain hose emptying back into the washer, oops, i mean tun.  Next 
would be a rinse/sparge and spin/centrifuge cycle to end with your drainhose 
hanging in your kettle for sweet wort collection.

woohoo

Now to figure out how to convert that old water heater into a pressure kettle 
and i will be fully automated like the big boys. And making beer will be as 
easy as doing the laundry.

At this point, all my hillbilly brewery would need is bathtubs for open 
fermentors and I would be set. I envision my marketing people saying the 
bottle label should be an actual picture of the brewery and the beer should 
be called " Hillbilly Liten'Dry Ale"

Sometimes I just sit and think
And sometimes I just sit

Looking forward to hooting and hollering in michigan next month

cheer 

Tom Moench
Hillbilly Brewery
" we make clean beer"


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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:16:03 -0300
From: "A.Carminati" <carminat at cpovo.net>
Subject: malt extract

Hi folks,

I'm Brazilian homebrewer, as somebody should know, finding malt extract here
is something difficult. I've found just one company making both syrup and
powder ones, but just one kind of extract (there are no choices for many
colors and flavors). This syreup is light brown used normally for food
purposes (breads, cakes, cookies, crackers, etc..) and is 58 % maltosis. At
this point I'm questioning myself if this product can make good beer and I
want to know the % average of sugars (maltosis, frutosis, dextrosis, etc..)
found in malt extract syrup in somewhere else, to compare with this brand
I've found here. If somebody has the chemistry knowledge to tell me the
equivalences prior to my calculations I'd appreciate too.

private emails are good enough

Regards

Alexandre carminat at email.com




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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:08:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pete Cooke <petecooke at yahoo.com>
Subject: hot water heater temp

Does anyone know if any of the hot water heaters at
Home Depot or Loews will reach temps >= 170?

If no, can they be modified or can you special order
such a hot water heater?

TIA

 -pete

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/


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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:31:01 -0500
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: re: abbreviations

     Adding to Pat's list...

     AA, BA: sometimes refers to alpha amylase and beta amylase
     ABV,ABW: alcohol by volume, weight
     AR: anal retentive
     AAU: alpha acid units (bittering capacity of hops)
     BJCP: beer judge certification program
     BOA: board of advisors (typically preceded by AHA)
     CCWC, CFWC: counter current (or flow) wort chiller
     FTIM: forgot the Irish moss (sometimes preceded by D for don't/didn't)
     FYI: for your information
     GABF,GBBF: great American beer festival, great British beer festival
     GCHC: great Canadian homebrew competition/convention
     HBU, IBU: measure of bitterness of beer
     HSA: hot side aeration
     http:// hypertext transfer protocol
     PITA: pain in the aft ;)
     SCA: society for creative anachronism
     SG, OG, FG, TG: specific gravity (density), original, final, terminal
     URL: uniform reference locator

     I'm not even going to try to list the elements/compounds used in
     brewing like tcp or CaCO3, or units of measure like ppg or lb/gal.

     Cheers!

     Lou Heavner - Austin, TX: Texas  ;)


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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:23:54 -0700
From: Victor Macias <VMacias at foxsports.net>
Subject: Abbreviations ???

Greetings, all.  

What about my favorite abbreviation: 

CACA?


- --- Victor Macias
       Pacific Gravity Homebrewers Club
       Culver City, CA	


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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:11:15 -0700
From: Dana Edgell <EdgeAle at cs.com>
Subject: Gott Cooler & mini-keg bung

Paul Gatza writes...

>Back in my What's Brewin' days, a customer came in and showed me that a
>party keg (mini-keg) bung fits perfectly in the hole in a Gott cooler. Just
>pop the center plug out of the bung, insert the bung in your Gott and run
>three-eighths tubing through. I regularly use that system at home with no
>problems.

Actually, it is a 1/2" copper tube that perfectly fits the mini-keg bung I
use in my Gott cooler spigot hole. No leakes and easily removed. Also with
this size, there is no need for a plastic sheath as suggested by fellow San
Diegan, Kit Cheves.

Dana

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell              mailto:EdgeAle at cs.com
Edge Ale Brewery         http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle
San Diego




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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:40:14 -0600
From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: RE: Ray Daniels "honey" issue?

Hi Bill and all. This is the first negative comment I have received about
this issue. From all the positive feedback I've been getting on that issue,
I thought I was stating the obvious. Apparently not. I should not have made
the assumption. I should have added "in my opinion." Thanks for the private
email about your ideas for some topics you would like to see covered.

I look at the AHA having a unique role to play in advancing meadmaking,
especially since the demise of the AMA and the lack of many other
information sources that have the outreach of Zymurgy. Historically mead
coverage goes back to the very first issue of Zymurgy, so we have never been
just about beer. The AHA Board of Advisors expressed an interest in having
more mead and cider coverage in Zymurgy at the most recent AHA Board of
Advisors meeting.

When Ray came on board his vision for Zymurgy include having a pretty strong
focus on one topic, in that case brewing with honey. The July/August will be
about summer brewing. Historical beers will be the subject of the special
issue for September/October.

Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org)
Director, American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302        voice(303)447-0816 x 122
fax (303) 447-2825
Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org





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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:54:26 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: re: Ray Daniels "honey" issue



Paul,

    You're right in that 'Zymurgy' refers to the art of fermentation and
I guess that includes mead.  I'm just one of those guys who is
'hard-core' beer.

   Personally, most of my experiences with mead have been negative.
Probably because all of the meads I ever had were spiced with wierd
things like saffron or mesquite, or both.  In my experience, people tend
to experiment with mead too much.

FWIW - There was a similar reaction with BYO, when they started
putting wine articles in their magazine not that long ago.   So many
people complained that they actually spun off a second magazine
called WineMaker.  To me, mead falls more under the wine category.

Bill




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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:59:03 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Gott

I removed the valve assembly from my 10gal Gott and replaced it with
something simple but sturdy.  A 1.5in (I believe that's the correct length)
1/2" brass/SS closed nipple (piece of pipe threaded on both ends) was put
through the hole.  I did slightly have to ream it a bit to get it to fit.
Rubber gaskets were placed on both the inside and outside.  A standard 1/2"
ball valve with female threads on each end was applied to the outside end of
the nipple.  A standard 1/2" hose barb to 1/2" female adapter was screwed
onto the inside end of the nipple.  When tightened down it seals and is
pretty sturdy.  On the other end of the ball value you can put the adapter
of choice.  On the inside I adapted the standard Phils Phalse Bottom to
accept a 1/2" right angle hose barb connector (from the one that comes with
the phalse bottom) and joined that to the 1/2" hose barb with 1/2" ID stiff
plastic tubing from the Home Depot.  Result is 1/2" throughout is better for
a RIMS flow and this is stiff enough so the phalse bottom doesn't float up.


Dave Houseman


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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:03:32 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Beechwood

I seem to have read, but can't remember the source, that one can use strips
of aluminum or other metal in the place of beechwood and get the same
results.  It doesn't look as good however in advertizing to say that your
beer is "Aluminum Aged."  I've got some strips of stainless steel that I
should try to see if it helps....

Dave Houseman


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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:15:28 -0400
From: "Spence" <drwlg at coollink.net>
Subject: Kudos for HBD and her readers!

Wow!  I'm both impressed and very appreciative!  A couple days ago I posted
2 requests for information on some of the various abbreviations used in HBD
posts and a request to learn more of some of the equipment used in brewing.
You all are incredible!  The "digital ink" hadn't even dried on my post and
I received e-mails from Pat Babcock, Chuck Bernard, Chris Cooper, Donald
Lake, and Raymond Lowe pertaining to ALL my requested info!  You all know
how to promote a fun hobby among beginner and intermediate homebrewers!
Even though a lot of the articles are a bit advanced for me, I have gained
on the learning curve quickly from everyone's helpful attitudes.  My sincere
appreciation!

Spence Graham

If you're not bleedin'... you're not having fun!



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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:34:10 -0700
From: "Ross D. Potter" <burningbrite at earthlink.net>
Subject: Freezing Malt Extract and Grains

Having lurked on the HBD for nearly a year now, I have picked up a great
deal of information (most of it useful; what hasn't been is due more to the
limits of my own brewing capabilities).  I now have a question I've not yet
seen addressed.

The local homebrew supply store is going out of business.  Knowing that mail
order can be a killer on the delivery charges, I decided to stock up and
grabbed four 7-pound plastic jugs of malt extracts as well as numerous
sealed 1 to 3 pound bags of specialty grains.  At the rate I brew, all this
stuff should last me about a year.  Of course, now I have to optimize
preservation of these materials, which brings me to my question --

Is there any reason why I should not store the extracts, grains, or both in
the freezer?

This seems to me to be the best way to keep the stuff as fresh as possible.
But, have I failed to consider some factor about freezing that would do more
harm than, say, storing in the broom closet at room temperature?  Any
advice, public or private, will be appreciated.  Thanks...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don't dream it...  Be it.

 ...ross



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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 05:31:21 -0400
From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow at prodigy.net>
Subject: Aging of fermented beer

Greetings,

With all this talk of how long it takes to brew, I'd like to add another
point of view.  I brew English ales with the usual full
grain/primary/secondary/keg/force carbonate methods.  I find, though,
that the beer tastes better after about a 4 week delay.  The carbonation
has changed, slightly, but the overall balance of the the beer is much
better.  The alcohol taste is nearly completely gone--covered over by
the beer, itself.  As you can guess, I usually wait the month until the
beer's flavor is "married."

Anyone else noticed this?

Bret Morrow
Hamden, CT

P.S.  I hear that the pool table ladies are all over 90...stones and
years!



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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 05:36:32 -0400
From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow at prodigy.net>
Subject: expanded "icebox"

Greetings,

I have a small "dorm" refrigerator that I use for brewing.  It holds a 5
gall. corny keg and a 3 gall. corny keg, and this is the problem.  I
usually have more beer than that.  I have been looking at a larger
refrigerator, but do not have the space for it right now.  I was
thinking about removing the door of the small refrigerator I have and
adding an insulated, top-loading box beside it via trunk clasps.  Has
anyone done this?  All advice is welcome.  This sounds like a job for
the "FRIDGE GUY!"

TIA

Bret Morrow
Hamden, CT



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Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:40:45 -0600
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net>
Subject: 10 gallon Keg

Joshua asks about 10 gallon ball lock kegs

Try www.vintagecellar.com.  Give the 1-800 number a call and ask for Kenny.
He'll set you up.

Cheers!
Matthew.


"We have to work in the theatre of our own time,
with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones




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---