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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Lion, Inc. (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  The Lion Brewery (Ihor W. Slabicky)
  CO2 keg system (shoeless joe)
  Blue Ribbon (a.e.mossberg)
  garlic recipes (a.e.mossberg)
  Chill Haze (Mike Charlton)
  recycling sparge water (kipps)
  sour/bitter aftertastes in stouts (florianb)
  Stew's Brew and some free advice (John Freeman)
  Glass Fermentors and Orange Extract ("Lance "Mr. Yuck" Smith")
  Oatmeal Stout (jamesb)
  Stinky Wyeast Bavarian Lager Yeast (b11!conk!steve)
  Questions (boy, do I have Questions) (Enders)


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Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 09:17:36 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Lion, Inc.


In Homebrew Digest #333, Dave Suurballe writes:
> ...I drank a lager called Bunker Hill, brewed by the Lion, Inc., of
> Wilkes-Barre. Does anyone know about the beer or the brewery?

There was a very interesting article about the Lion brewery in the
October 1989 issue of "All About Beer" magazine.  The article was
written by James Robertson, author of "The Connoisseur's Guide to
Beer."  Some of the highlights of the article:
* The brewery was opened as the Luzerne Brewery in 1906, it competed
  directly with Stegmaier and three other larger local breweries.
  Although Stegmaier was *MUCH* larger than the Lion, it encountered
  financial difficulties in the 1960's, was ravaged by a flood in
  1972, and subsequently sold to the Lion.    
* Lion's strongpoint is that it produces good beers and sells them
  at lower prices than major industrial brewers.  Some of the beers
  sell for as little as $5/case in Pennsylvania.
* Lion has recently started diversifying products a bit, introducing
  a malt cooler (like wine cooler) called Calvin Cooler.
* Lion has gone after contract-brewing business.  Currently have
  contracts to brew Hope Lager, Manhattan Gold, Jersey Lager, Stoudt's,
  and Winterfest Ale--all excellent products.
* The Lion is family owned.

Robertson then provided flavor profiles of the Lion's major brands, among
them: Gibbons, Stegmaier, Steg Light, Bartels, Liebotschaner Cream Ale,
Lionshead Pilsner, Esslinger, Crystal, Stegmaier Porter, Trupert Pilsner,
(and some of the contract beers).

If you're interested in regional breweries, this is a very good article,
it is on page 14 of the October 1989 issue of "All About Beer" magazine.

Cheers,
- --Mark Stevens
  stevens at ra.stsci.edu

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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 09:41:43 EST
From: iws at rayssdb.ssd.ray.com (Ihor W. Slabicky)
Subject: The Lion Brewery

	I just got back from Christmas in New Jersey, where I drank a lager
	called Bunker Hill, brewed by 'The Lion, Inc., Wilkes-Barre'.  Does
	anyone know about this beer or the brewery?  I'd never heard of it, and
	I thought the hoppiness was just right.

I haven't had the opportunity to try Bunker Hill ;-(, but The Lion
is a brewery in Wilkes Barre that does a lot of contract brewing.
One brew that they make is all the Hope Lager, Red Rooster Ale,
Christmas Ale, etc... for the Hope Brewery in Providence, RI.  
They do a good job of contract brewing, as Hope has done well
in various judgings and is doing well locally.

The Lion also brews its own brands - like Bartel's - which are not
as good the contract brews.  I tried a Bartel's recently and found
it to be rather weak in flavor - but I remember Bartel's from about
15 years ago as having a stronger yeast/malt taste.

Ihor

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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 11:09:50 EST
From: shoeless joe <DTG at umd2.umd.edu>
Subject: CO2 keg system

I've been interested in implementing a CO2 keg system, rather than
going through the tediusness of bottling.  I'm soliciting advice from
ANYBODY out there who has experience with these things.  I'm particular-
ly interested in the following:
    1.  How difficult is it for a complete incompetant (like myself--
            who isn't worrying, by the way...) to implement one of these
            systems?

    2.  How EXPENSIVE is it to implement one of these systems, and what
            should I expect to pay for each component of the system?

     3.  Are there any tricks or suggestions that I should be aware of?
         For example, is it practical--financially or in terms of
         keeping my beer drinkable--to buy extra containers (cannisters?)
         and then switch the tap to whatever beer I feel like drinking
         that evening?

Also, while I have everybody's attention--and I know that this has been
discussed previously in the Digest--I'm interested in growing hops in my back
yard.  Any ideas as to where to get hop plants?  When should they be
harvested?  How does one go about processing the flowers such that they
can be added to the wort?  Do all varieties grow equally well in all
climates?  And, again, how much to they cost?  Finally, how many plants
would be sufficient to supply the flowers needed for somebody like
myself, who brews 15-20 batches a year?

Thanks in advance for everybody who responds!



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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 14:13:25 EST
From: aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: Blue Ribbon

In HOMEBREW Digest #327, robert nielsen asks:

>My first problem is that he used Pabst Blue Ribbon malt. It is my
>understanding that that malt has not been available for the last
>ten years or so. Is this true? If Pabst is not available, does
>anyone know of a malt which is similar? I realize it is difficult
>to compare any malt to something that hasn't been around for ten
>years, but it's worth a try!

Premier carrys on the fine tradition of Blue Ribbon Malt. Not
recommended.

>As for yeast, I'm not sure what would be proper to use.
>His 12 gallon recipe used about 5 pounds of corn sugar, and 3 pounds
>of white sugar. What kind of yeast would work in these conditions?

Beer yeast.

Seriously, don't do it. Get yourself a good modern malt. Back in those
days necessity was the mother of intervention, and they did things which
no one with reasonable tastebuds would consider. 

aem

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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 14:13:50 EST
From: aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: garlic recipes

In HOMEBREW Digest #327, chris sinanian asks:
>Subject: garlic recipes

        i would like to know if anybody out there has any recipes
         that include garlic.  i have looked in the papazian book
         but he only mentions garlic, that i could see.

1 can Pilsner Lager malt extract
4 heads of garlic, cleaned and crushed
6 cups dextrose

	1. Bring to a boil 2 gallons of water
	2. add dextrose
	3. stir in malt extract
	4. add garlic
	5. boil 16 minutes or so
	6. remove from heat
	7. Now make a decision: super-garlic beer or regular garlic beer.
	8. For regular garlic beer, strain out garlic.
	9. add wort to fermenter and fill with water to five gallons
	10. when temperature is appropriate, add yeast
	11. if making super-garlic beer, rack into secondary fermenter
		straining out the garlic.

aem

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Date: 28 Dec 89 14:20 -0600
From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: Chill Haze

Hi all.  I recently made a beer based on Dave Line's Theakston's Bitter
recipe which seems to have chill haze.  I found this rather strange since
this recipe contains only pale malt, flaked maize, and molasses.  The
only causes of chill haze I am aware of are:
    1) Protein rest too short (Not applicable here, since this is an
       english ale).
    2) Bad hot or cold break (Don't think this is it either -- Probably
       the best hot break I've had).
Does anyone know of other reasons for chill haze?  Any suggestions of what
might have gone wrong?  I'm suspicious that they gave me lager malt instead
of ale malt (wouldn't be the first time they've made a mistake like that...)
                  Thaks for any help,
                      Mike


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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 13:30:44 -0800
From: kipps at etoile.ICS.UCI.EDU
Subject: recycling sparge water



I'm going to be mashing again in a few weeks and I have a question.  I've
noticed several references in the recent past to "recycling sparge water
until it runs clear."  Now my experience in the past has been that the
sparge water comes out cloudy and after recycling it's still cloudy.
I've always assumed this was OK, thinking cloudy water in--cloudy water
out.  Will it really get clear if I recycle enough? or is my idea of
clear a little cloudy?

 -Jim Kipps

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Date: 28 Dec 89 14:14:41 PST (Thu)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: sour/bitter aftertastes in stouts

In #330, Brad Isley commented about sour/bitter aftertastes in several
stouts he made from various published recipes.  May I offer some help.

From the description of the tastes, it isn't clear what they are due to.
However, the presence of bitter aftertaste is common when using strongly
bittering hops or large amounts of hops having alpha content of 5 or so.
The presence of sourness is unacceptable and predictable.  It can be 
avoided by not using cane sugar, molasses, brown sugar, or corn sugar
in excess of the 3/4 cup used for priming.

In brewing with recipes for stouts calling for any of the above ingredients,
I have always produced a beer with wierd aftertastes.  Conversely, when I
 have brewed without them, my stouts have always been good.   I have
 demonstrated that it is possible to brew stouts with such smoothness that
 it is impossible to take a drink of one without saying "Ahh!" afterward,
 even (and preferrably) consumed at room temperature.

 In summary, I recommend brewing with only barley grain or extract, and use
 fresh hops and a good, preferrably liquid, yeast.

 Florian

 PS.  Almost forgot.  I never, ever use any extract except plain, light
 dried extract or light syrup.  I don't trust the dark extracts to not
 have cane sugar ingredients or to not be excessively carmelized.


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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 16:45:55 CST
From: jlf at earth.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: Stew's Brew and some free advice

> 
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 89 11:10:20 est
> From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
> Subject: Barley (I wanna get into all-grain, et al)
> 
> My local homebrew supply store closed down recently, and I'm looking for a
> good mailorder place. Sent out 50 requests for catalogs, and have gotten
> about 30 replies. A couple of good-looking places, and one odd one --
> Stew's Brew. Anyone know about it? All he sells is malted barley, only one
> kind, and doesn't say what it is, except that it's grown in the American
> ``Beer Belt''. The price, however, is a whopping $0.55/lb. I'm tempted to
> try it for my first go at all-grain, as his flier had boat-loads of helpful
> time- and money-saving tips (he seems to know what he's doing).
> 

I ordered a 32 pound bag of malt from Stew's Brew.  It came promptly
via UPS with a free stirring paddle and helpful instructions.  
I've used it all up and am about to order another.  I recommend Stew's Brew 
for anyone mashing their own beer.  It is good malt cheap.  

> I'm also looking for free advice -- do's and don't's -- appropriate for a
> first-time all-grainer. Are the electric mash tun's all their cracked up to
> be? will someone explain why they justify spending $100 plus expenses to
> install a 240V circuit? (I assume a 120V would have too few BTUs). How do I
> avoid the expense of a grain mill? any plans on building one?
> 

I mash in a styrofoam cooler with excellent results.  I add enough hot
water to get the mash to 155F and leave it for 90 minutes.  It cools
off to about 145F by then.  I suppose it's even simpler with an electric
mash tun, but $100.00...

As for a grain mill, buy one.  I have a Corona mill and I love it.
It also works beautifully for grinding coffee beans each morning.
I've used coffee mills for cracking malt in the past, they just 
don't do the job.

My biggest free advice is 'rehydrate quality yeast before pitching'.
I use Edme Ale Yeast with good success.

Lots of people have written about needing 8 gallon brew kettles.  
I have a 5 gallon stainless steel stock pot, bought from a restaurant
supplier locally ($60.00).  Due to the sizes of my other equipment,
like plastic pails, I end up making 3 gallon batches of mash beer, 
using 4 pounds of malt each time.  I'm quite happy with this.  
Production exceeds comsumption as it is now.


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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 17:36:35 CDT
From: "Lance "Mr. Yuck" Smith" <lsmith at umn-cs.cs.umn.edu>
Subject: Glass Fermentors and Orange Extract

I'm not sure how to comment about using glass carboys for primary fermentation.
I use a 7-gallon carboy and usually the krausen (?) stays within bounds.
However, if you're making bigger batches or using 10+ lbs of extract I would
be cautious. Even air locks can get clogged up and as I mentioned before, I
had an Imperial Stout that managed to spit foam. I've seen the larger tubes,
but depending on the carboy and tube you use the closure might not be as 
secure as when you use a rubber stopper and lock or blow off tube.

I noted that some of the AHA competitors used stainless for fermentation.
Does anyone out there have such a set up? I'm guessing these are specialized
systems, like the barrel system advertised recently in Zymurgy.

A question: Has anyone ever used bottled orange extract in a Xmas
beer? I came across the stuff in the spice section when I was looking
for some cloves. It appears to be mainly alcohol with orange extract
added. Comes in 1 oz bottles. I thought this might be a cleaner way to
add orange flavor to beer, but it's difficult to judge how much you should
add. Maybe I'll write a letter to the Professor.

Regarding my earlier post about cheap stainless: Th name of the store is
Lechters not Letchers. I'm still not sure if I'll get a kettle from them
or not. The pots were fairly lightweight. BTW, I saw a 20 gallon (!) kettle
while doing Xmas shopping. Yikes! I could almost make some of Ron Page's
recipes with a pot that size.

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Date: Thu Dec 28 15:23:31 1989
From: microsoft!jamesb at uunet.uu.net
Subject: Oatmeal Stout

Well I mailed for a recipe to emulate a Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout.
No body had one, I guess.
This is what I finally came up with after mucho comparisonof mucho notes.
Broglio's Quaker Stout
6# Dry Amber Malt
1# Crystal Malt
.5# Roasted Barley
1# Quaker Oats
1oz. Eroica Hops (Boiling)
1oz. Kent Goldings (Finishing)
2pks. EDME dry yeast

In two gallons of cold water. Add, Crystal, Barley and Oatmeal. Steap
until water comes to boil. Sparge with about 1 gallon of hot water. 
Add Dry Amber Malt. Bring to boil, add Eroica Hops, boil 45 minutes. 
Last 5 minutes of boil add Kent Goldings.
I cooled the wort from a boil to 75 degrees in about 15 minutes, 
I then transfered to primary, pitched the yeast, had a homebrew, and waited,
patiently.....
The starting SG was recorded with a beer meter, since traded for a 
real SG meter, estimated alcohol % of 6%.
I bottled on 12/11.
Results:
Well, something happened to the carbonation stage, as it is very
lightly carbonated.
That I can live with.
Taste test......
Needs more hops, somewhat sweet initial taste, with a hint of coffee?
Could be a little more bitter. Smooth aftertaste. Not bad I think.
The weekend of the 13th I will be attending a meeting with the local
beer club, I will save a bottle for their perusal and report the 
"Profession
al" results.
Overall though I give t a thumbs up!!
Jim Broglio
Microsoft


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Date: Thu Dec 28 11:32:09 1989
From: ingr!b11!conk!steve at uunet.uu.net
Subject: Stinky Wyeast Bavarian Lager Yeast

John Polstra writes:

 >Subject: Wyeast Problems?
 >
 >If any of you used Wyeast #2206 (Bavarian Lager) recently and had
 >infection problems, please contact me.  I believe that a packet I used
 >recently (December 1989 date code) was bad, but I would like more
 >evidence.
 >
 >It was a very serious bacterial infection which produced a strong
 >sulphery oder, much like 2-tube epoxy glue.  (Yuck!)
 >
 >Luckily, I noticed the infection in the yeast starter *before* I
 >pitched it into my hard-won wort, so I was able to keep from ruining
 >my brew.

My experience using this yeast at warmer temperatures is that it always
stinks while fermenting, but that the beer does not retain any of the
sulfer aroma. This is pretty typical for a number of strains of lager yeast,
and the mechanisms are documented in brewing literature (This is a nice
way of saying "I can't remember exactly where I read it. I think it was
either in the all-grain special issue of Zymurgy, or more probably, in
'Brewing Lager Beer' By Greg Noonan").

Steve Conklin - uunet!ingr!b11!conk!steve



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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 20:58:26 -0600
From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Questions (boy, do I have Questions)


Greetings all!

     I'm going to hit you with the most common (probably) question asked
by those of us homebrew fanatics who reside in the middle of nowhere:

     Who is (are) a good mail-order supplier???

     It's hard to expand your brewing experience if all you have to work
with is grocery store variety hopped malt extract :-) (and only one brand
at that!).  Addresses, catalog/price list availability, general experiences
in dealing with these folks, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

     On another note, what are some good sources for lab cultures (yeast)?
esp. if different from above.

     Also, how does one get a subscription to "Zymurgy" magazine?  Like I
said, I'm living in a relative vacuum as far as sources/obscure information
goes.  So, any & all info would be greatly appreciated!

     Now, from the commonplace to the more interesting.  I want to construct
a counterflow wort chiller, but the issue of cleaning/subsequent sterility
does bother me.  What are *your* experiences with this device.  It appears
that the counterflow device is a good bit more efficient than an imersion
type cooler, and infinately better than plunking your fermenter down into a
bathtub full of cold water.  Comments?

     Well, enough for the group to ponder over for now.  Thanks again in
advance for any & all help!

Todd Enders                     ARPA: enders at plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                 UUCP: ...!ihnp4!plains!enders
Minot State University          BITNET: enders at ndsuvax
Minot, ND 58701



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #334, 12/29/89
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