---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  re: Bier de Garde, and others (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  New Brewing Book Online! (John Palmer)
  rice lager (Ray Kruse)
  Hop rhizomes (JGORMAN)
  Gravity Measurements (Bill.X.Wible)
  fermentability of crystal malt (Marc Sedam)
  Teflon ("Dave Hinrichs")
  wet milling (Booth)
  dry or wet crush (JGORMAN)
  RE: freezing grains and the nays have it. (Jonathan Peakall)
  mash pH measurements ("Alan Meeker")
  gypsum, DI water pH (AJ)
  Re: Growing Saaz (VS Central)" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com>
  Water analysis and filteration ("Alex Weeks")
  Another foot back into... (Some Guy)
  Re: Blanche De Chambly (B.R. Rolya)
  dairy ales (adam larsen)
  Re: freezing malt ("patrick finerty jr.")
  re: Dr. Pivo's grain distinction ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Hard water (Dave Burley)
  Hot side aeration during mash. (Jeffrey L. Calton)
  Pivo's infested malts ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Foster's IBUs ("Paul Gatza")
  Brewing software ("Eric R. Lande")
  dry lager yeast (Marc Sedam)
  Buzz Off 2000 Results (David Houseman)
  Are My Hops Ruined? (WayneM38)
  Genny (BIL2112L)
  Yeast Respiring In Wort ("Aaron Sepanski")
  Phosphoric Acid Sources? ("Angie and Reif Hammond")


* Don't miss the 2000 AHA NHC in Livonia, MI 
* 6/22 through 6/24 http://hbd.org/miy2k

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 14:43:32 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Aus.Sun.COM>
Subject: re: Bier de Garde, and others

sensei graham.

there is but one site for you.

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/rugby/provincial/20000604/A37004-2000Jun4.html

how was the dyson and cannon stink in the 2nd half?! praise be to a game 
were 2 men can thump each other and enjoy a beer together when its all
over. Unlike that "afl" game...men wrestling in tight shorts..hmmmm

strangely something related to beer for once.

Blanche de Chambly- apart from the yeast, any hints on recipe formulation.

The ladies of my house (including the bunch of bawdy school girls which I
would definately share as mates share all things) thinks this beer rocks.


Grasshopper

(artist formerly known as Scotty, also with "blankie", wearing ugg boots
and with footy wedged well under right arm)



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Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 22:15:58 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: New Brewing Book Online!

New Brewing Book Online!
6/5/00

How To Brew by John Palmer
http://www.howtobrew.com

I am extremely pleased to announce that my book, How To Brew, is available
online in its entirety, for free.

As many of you know, I have been working on this project for six years, and
I think the result is worth the wait. My goal has always been to bring all
of the basic information on ingredients and methods for both extract and
all-grain brewing together in one volume, and present it so the reader could
understand when to do it, how you do it, and why to do it. And if necessary,
how to build it too. "Everything you need to know to brew beer right the
first time."

My book is comprehensive, covering the ingredients and methods for brewing
with malt extract, steeping specialty grains, and all-grain brewing. I am
particularly pleased with the all-grain section. I think I have put together
a logical tutorial on how the mash works, how the malts and water combine to
determine mash pH, and how a brewer can manipulate it to produce the best
wort. I have really enjoyed this hobby and I want to make this information
readily available so others can enjoy it too.

A lot of people have contributed to this book. I want to thank Norm Pyle,
Martin Lodahl, Jim Liddil, Maribeth Raines, Steve Alexander, Al Korzonas,
Patrick Weix, Don Put, Dave Draper, AJ Delange, Laurel Maney, Jim Busch,
George and Laurie Fix, Guy Gregory, Rob Moline, and Jeff Renner for
contributing their knowledge. And I especially need to thank Glenn Tinseth
for the 2 years he spent editing two drafts of this work. Believe me, he
made a big difference in both the content and the quality.

This online edition is the production of the Real Beer Page and the team of
Stephen Mallery, Luke McDowell, Nathan Day and Karen Raimondo. I would like
to thank them for building a truly outstanding website for this material.
The website is easy to navigate and even has a search engine to let you
locate every discussion of any topic you want to look up. Many of the
graphics are presented in a smaller format for faster loading, but the full
size view is available by clicking on them.

I hope everyone who reads this work gets a lot out of it, and I encourage
discussion of the material. If there is a section that could be better, I
will do my best to improve it.
Thank you and have at it!

John Palmer
jjpalmer at howtobrew.com



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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 06:01:14 -0400
From: Ray Kruse <rkruse at bigfoot.com>
Subject: rice lager

I recently received a package from a P. Jackson, Burradoo Hilton,
Burradoo, NSW, Australia.  The customs declarations said that it
contained "Aboriginal nectar" and some other stuff that was blurred
beyond recognition on the declaration.  Although weighty, the package
was not ticking, so I opened it.

The package contained a PET bottle, a NSW Waratah jersey, and a
hand-lettered sign that declared "The Sydney Swans Rule!", whoever they
are.  Obviously Mr. Jackson is a Swans fan.

In addition, there was a note wrapped around the PET bottled that stated
the contents to be "Rice Lager as brewed for the ladies of the billiard
room".

I placed the bottle in the fridge for a few days to allow things to
settle down, and contacted my friend Phil to see if he knew anything of
Mr. Jackson.  Phil said that Jackson wasn't a 'bad bloke', except for
his liking footy instead of rugby.  Apparently there is some controversy
over this in Burradoo, which I gather is similar to the controversy
between Crimson Tide football and real football.

However, I'm not writing to discuss the pro's and con's of rugby versus
footy, nor high school football as practiced in Tuscaloosa.  I'm writing
to offer insight into the infamous Rice Lager.

After almost a week of settling time in the fridge I decided to inspect
the bottle.  Very little sediment, but there was a small amount of
haze.  Could have been yeast, chill/protein haze.  My opinion is that it
was protein haze, but Phil said that it poured clear from the tap.
Might be some residual aboriginal parts added by Mr. Jackson as
retribution for the skunk essence.

I poured a small sample to allow to warm to room temperature (to check
for chill haze), and poured a glass to sample.  The color was a very
pale 2-3L golden yellow.  I could only wish that mine were so pale.  The
nose was wonderfully hoppy.  Once at room temp, the sample was still a
little hazy (not murky, nor cloudy---just a slight haze as would be
found in some ales.)

The first sip was quite an experience.  I noticed a residual sweetness
which quickly gave way to an exquisite malty flavor with a nice balance
of hops.  With rice as a major ingredient I had expected something much
more dry and crisp, but this was a very full-bodied beer.  And finally,
there was a terrific hop aftertaste to finish it off.

The bottle was too quickly finished.  I can see why the ladies like it.

And for those of you who thought that this rice lager was one of those
fantasies that seem to continue to seep out of Oz, believe me, it is a
real beer.  And all in all, it was a pretty good beer.  I look forward
to a direct-from-the-tap sample one day.

Ray Kruse
Glen Burnie, PRMd
rkruse at bigfoot.com



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:47:00 -0400
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: Hop rhizomes

I know it's probably too late to get any this year, but does anyone know a
source for Cluster hop rhizomes?  Every place I check only has the same 6 or 7
hop types and not Cluster.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:09:51 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Gravity Measurements



Whenever I talk to a professional brewer about beer, it seems they tend
to measure everything in Degrees Plato, instead of the 1.xxx scale that we
homebrewers tend to use.

Is this just my imagination, or is this true?  What is the advantage of using
Degrees Plato over other gravity scales?  Does it make some of the
brewing math easier?  Or is that just what they teach in Brewing Schools?

Bill




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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 09:35:29 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: fermentability of crystal malt

As a follow-up to Jeff's re-posting of Mort O'Sullivan's
words, I'd like to offer a few points of clarification.

1)  Discussion of "microchannels" on the surface of the
amylopectin molecules (I assume he means starch granules) is
a first for me.  I do know that at temperatures that are
hot, but not hot enough to gelatinize the starch granules,
short-chain amylose molecules will leach out of the swollen
starch granules.

2)  The heat of the kilning is not important other than it
needs to be hot enough to solublize the amylose.  The
cooling cycle, however, *is* important.  The recrystallized
amylose is resistant to enzymic attack because (a) it
doesn't hold much water, making the enzymes unable to work,
and (b) the structure of the crystal is highly ordered and
there's no room for the enzyme's active site to access the
crystallized starch.  As an aside, beta-amylase can degrade
this resistant starch much better than alpha-amylase, since
beta degrades the starch from the end of the molecule while
alpha does not.

3)  Amylopectin does retrograde/crystallize but only does so
very loosely.  This complex is easily broken by further
heating.  This may explain why crystal malts *do* offer some
fermentability to the mash.  Amylose crystallizes very
tightly, with the shorter chains (dp<25, if I recall)
performing the best crystallization.  You will not be able
to ferment crystallized amylose in any meaningful way.

4)  Retrogradation is promoted by lipid molecules, but this
does not mean that fermentability is reduced via
lipid/amylose complexes.  We need to split retrogradation
(the complexation of starch molecules) from crystallization
(highly ordered complex of cooled amylose and, to a much
lesser extent, amylopectin).  Put another way, all
crystallized starch has retrograded but not all retrograded
starch has crystallized.

5)  All starch, regardless of source, can form resistant
starch with melting points in excess of 100C.  Some starches
are better suited for this purpose (wheat, corn) than
others.  If you want to promote retrogradation, starches
high in amylose are most important.

6)  To reduce fermentability, the cooling process should be
both slow and controlled, and/or combined with repeated
heat/cool cycles.  Repeated cycles between 50C and 100C will
improve crystallization and reduce fermentability.  Time
spent at high temperatures is, IMHE, not particularly
relevant.

To answer the question in a definitive fashion, someone
needs to test all malt varieties for resistant starch
content.  There is an ASBC and/or AACC method for this, but
I no longer have access to the equipment necessary for this
to happen.  This will give an idea of how much resistant
starch appears in each type of malt (may even explain the
reduced fermentability of some Munich/Vienna malts) and the
*true* theoretical extract obtained from each.

Whew!  Apologies, in advance, for those I've no doubt bored
to tears.  This particular topic is quite close to my heart,
which says more about me than I'd care for most people to
know.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:49:18 -0500
From: "Dave Hinrichs" <dhinrichs at quannon.com>
Subject: Teflon


One concern.  Is all Teflon "food grade"?  I am sure the frying pan
material is but, what about the type used in shrink tubing?  I envy all you
people that can toss around the poly-propolides and butyl-marmalades and
whatever.  It never means anything to me but I know the insiders can tell
everything just from these words, a few winks, and a hand gesture or two.
:-)

<snip>

What should one look for to be sure the shrink tubing won't give off any
nasties even up to boiling temperatures?

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY

You really need the full spec's for the material. Also even if a material is
generally food grade if it is not processed to be food grade it cannot be.
All materials and that come in contact with the final product during
manufacture must be controlled to prevent contamination.

Given the application we are looking at here, a protective cover that is at
the top end of the probe (not usually even in the mash), that will have
intermittent short duration, medium temp exposure (less than 212'F). I will
venture that it is not an issue. Exposure level testing includes surface
area to volume as well as typical contact.


 *******************************************************
* Dave Hinrichs          E-Mail: dhinrichs at quannon.com *
* Quannon CAD Systems, Inc.      Voice: (952) 935-3367 *
* 6101 Baker Road, Suite 204       FAX: (952) 935-0409 *
* Minnetonka, MN 55345                                 *
*                http://www.quannon.com/               *
********************************************************



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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 08:54:14 -0400
From: Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: wet milling

Every year or so I post on the topic of tempering one's malt
before milling.

As I understand some breweries wet mill by adding water to
the malt at the
feed to the mill to reduce dust and reduce insurance rates
by avoiding dust
explosions.

Flour millers temper their grain by adding limited amounts
of water to grain
and allowing it to stand for a few hours to toughen the bran
and avoid small
bits of bran getting into the flour.

My tests adding 2 tbls per pound of malt 30' or so before
milling, resulted in
measurably larger bran flakes and more fines.  As the good
Dr. Pivo commented
the malt insides seem crumbly.

Larger bran and more fines are preferred for good extraction
and sparging
characteristics as I understand.

When I tried 4 tbls water/pound, the mill (Corona)  made
things unmanageable and
the grind turned more to flakes.

cheers, jbooth







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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:57:00 -0400
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: dry or wet crush

Don't try a wet crush with a Corona type mill.  You'll be one pissed off
brewer and start inventing new 4 letter words.  I did this one morning and it
took me over 2 hours to crush 15 lbs of grain.  I stripped the gears on two DC
motors, went through two batteries on my cordless drill, burnt the motor up on
my electric drill and eventually had to give up and hand crank over 10 lbs of
it.  You thought stuck mashes were bad, a stuck mill is even better.


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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 07:44:23 -0700
From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org>
Subject: RE: freezing grains and the nays have it.

Doc Pivo comments on a certain type of advice giving:


You can really find this attitude everywhere, and some folks seem to
thrive on it.  It's sort of like: "I gotta' go.  I'm gon'na rototill my
garden."

"OH no man!  Don't do that. You'll kill all the earthworms, and your
soil needs those guys."

Now this all may be true, but I know if I turn that soil by hand, I'll
get about two rows planted. and I know the stuff grows, earthworm
deficient or not.  What is most interesting, is that this sort of advice

is invarioubly offered by someone who doesn't have a single stick
growing in their garden!

They just "didn't have time" this year.  And if you really question
their experience, it turns out it's all word of mouth, or gleaned from
literature like "The National Enquirer".  They have spent all their time

learning all the things you can't do and warning others about them, that

they never managed to get any seeds in the ground.

Well, Doc, ya do gotta be selective about who you get advice from. And
those who take advice from idiots are, well, idiots. And while that type
of advice giver speaks from ignorance when advising on a topic they know
nothing, you are acting on ignorance when you decide to ignore it. But
even idiots get a hold on a good idea every now and again, even if they
don't know why or how to implement it. And I'm surprised that you would
rather go roto-till instead of investigating, inquisitive, try anything
type that you are. In the case of roto-tilling for example, it is bad,
for more reasons than just killing worms, and there are very simple
alternatives to tilling (after the establishment of an area) that are
*much* easier too. I have almost 1500 sq. feet of garden in this year,
untilled for 4 years, and busting with a wide variety of stuff.

How about this:

"Well, I'm going to go brew a batch of extract brew and try out my new
HSA sprinkler".

"Oh, man, don't do that!! You should go all grain and avoid aerating
your wort while hot."

"Yeah, how do you know? You ever brew?"

"No, but I read an article on the HBD by some dude named Pivo."

"Well, I know if I brew with extract and aerate while it's hot, I *will*
make beer, so that's what I'm gonna do."

Now, I'm not saying that one should investigate every idiots advice. But
I wouldn't automatically dismiss 'em either. The theoretical idiot who
advised you not to till *was* right, and he coulda saved you a lot of
work if you had sought out someone knowledgeable and asked "Why
shouldn't I till, and what are my alternatives?"

And think how silly we'll all feel if it turns out that The National
Enquirer is right and Elvis is alive and pumping gas for a living in
Boise, and that Aliens have been walking among us for years.




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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:59:31 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: mash pH measurements

Harlan wrote:

>Rather than the usual wrangling that goes on here, those with access to
>accurate measuring equipment could easily measure the pH of a clearly
>defined Congress Mash to determine whether Nathaniel's measurements were
>somehow off, or whether he stumbled across a legitimate anomaly.

>This is a very answerable question. Any takers?

I'd be happy to participate, I've been meaning to do such measurements for
awhile now but never gotten around to it. To do it right it would be helpful
if we could obtain some of the same exact malt and calcium salts that Nathan
is using...

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD







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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 11:07:29 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: gypsum, DI water pH

Aaron comented on "hard water with high alkalinity" calling it a
"saturated solution". In fact most hard waters with high alkalinity and
indeed many moderately hard waters with moderate alkalinity are
supersaturated with respect to calcium carbonate but not with respect to
calcium sulfate so that calcium sulfate can be effective in reducing
mash pH even in very alkaline waters though it probably won't be
possible to fully compensate for all the alkalinity by this method. Time
to trot out residual alkalinity again. Each 3.5 milliequivalents of
added calcium will "neutralize" one milliequivalent of alkalinity at any
level of alkalinity that your water supplier would be allowed to furnish
to you. Search the archives under "residual alkalinity" for details. At
the 3.5:1 ratio you'd have to supply lots of calcium to knock down an
alkalinity above, say, 250. It makes lots more sense in this case to add
a stoichiometrically equivalent amount of a calcium salt (i.e. 1:1
ratio) plus a bit extra and heat (yes, heat - not necessarily boil) the
water to precipitate calcium carbonate, decant  and then brew with this
decarbonated water. In this scheme you still have the anion (sulfate or
choride) to live with which may be fine, depending on what sort of beer
is being brewed) so a better approach is to supply the calcium via
slaked lime, heat, precipitate as above and decant.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Nathanial Lansing has repeated his mash experiment and gotten
essentially the same result which does not make sense with respect to
the distilled water pH. When something does not make sense there is
always a reason if only the investigator can find it. Deionized water in
equilibrium with atmospheric CO2 at the lower bound of concentration (
0.03%) has a pH of 5.69 and at the upper limit (0.05%) 5.58. These
values are easily calculated by sticking =0.0338*B1*(10^A2)*(10^-6.38) +
(10^-14)*(10^+A2) - 10^-A2 into an Excel cell, setting B1 to the partial
pressure of CO2 (0.0003 - 0.0005) and then using the solver to zero the
cell by varying the pH which is in cell A2. All the pH measurements I
have done on deionized water have fallen in this range. Nathanial's
don't.  A little fiddling shows that Nathanials observed value of 4.89
would indicate a CO2 partial pressure of a little over 0.01 atmospheres
(i.e. 1%).

When deionized water is heated to drive off the CO2 the pH must go to 7.
Deionized water which has been equilibrated with the air and then boiled
has nothing in it - it's pure. The gasses all have 0 solubility at
boiling. Thus, if Nathanial measures a pH 5.45 after boiling he is,
assuming the pH meter is not flawed (and it's ability to calibrate to
buffers indicates that it's probably OK) there is something in the water
besides dissolved CO2 at the outset. In other words, I suspect the
source of the water. This suspicion is easily confirmed by repeating the
test with some deionized water obtained from another source. If it
doesn't measure above about pH 5.6 when the container is first opened
then the focus of suspicion returns to the meter. pH meters are very
finicky devices and have lead more than one investigator down the garden
path. They are notorious for their erratic measurements in solutions of
low ionic strength, like distilled water. The fact that the pH stayed
about the same when gypsum was dissolved (which raises the ionic
strength) tends to weaken that explanation for this paradox. Checking
the actual offset and slope and the response time of the electrode might
lead to some insight but for now, based on limited info and admitedly
speculating, I'd look at the water itself. Silicic acid from the still?
What's the conductivity (or resistivity) of this water?



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:37:16 -0400 
From: "Sieben, Richard (VS Central)" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com>
Subject: Re: Growing Saaz

This is the third year for my Saaz plant also, but it has reached the top of
it's trellis (12 feet) but is being attacked by the mites I think.  I got
some hot pepper wax, so I was wondering if this would be a good thing to use
or not?  anyone have experience with this product?

I also have not had great production so far, but a friend who has grown them
told me they seem to go through a 3 year period of 'infant diseases' after
which they produce.  I will give them until the end of next year then.  the
first year I got one stinking cone, last year I got about one handful.  But,
last year was too dry and none of my plants produced much, so I will water
them this year if it ever gets dry here.  (the weather has been like Seattle
here in Northern Illinois lately!)

Rich Sieben


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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:02:09 -0700
From: "Alex Weeks" <fargone at napanet.net>
Subject: Water analysis and filteration

Hey folks,

I stumbled across this news letter a few months ago and have learned a lot
here.  I have a question about water analysis and filteration.  I live about
4 miles outside of Napa, CA on the side of a mountain.  My only source of
water is from a well.  You can drink it, but it is high in sulfur.
1.)  I was wondering is anybody had any suggestions on how I can get my
water tested for mineral levels.  A friend of mines wife works in a water
testing lab, but to get the test done there would be costly, even with her
discount.  (They usually test for toxins like MTBE.  Which might not be a
bad idea.)
2.)  Also I have been looking at water filters (the kind that install under
the sink) but an not sure what kind of filter I need.  I am assuming that
this will be dependant upon what the tests turn out.
3.)  I have been using Burton water salts to treat the water I use now.
(I've been using purified bottle water that is very low in mineral content.)
If I were to use a magnesium filter should I switch to Gypsum since there
will be magnesium in that water already?
Thanks guys,
Alex Weeks



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:15:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Another foot back into...

 ...the world of brewing.

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Well, I spent Saturday morning in what may be a fruitless attempt to
restore my yeast ranch to its former grandeur.

The five year old box of slants was retrieved from the bottom of the
'frige, and, using my best aseptic technique, each was lovingly rinsed
with oxygenated wort into 50 ml Erlenmeyers and capped with sterile
cotton. Hopefully, I'll be able to revive the beasties and thereby dispel
the "only good for 6 months" narrative that is oft heard when discussing
the longevity of yeast cultures on slants. Oh, and a "control" flask
having nothing but oxygenated wort and capped with the same sterile cotton
 - handled with the same implements as the innoculated flasks - languishes
nearby to ensure bacterial or wild yeast growth doesn't get "booked" as
success. 

I *LOVE* this shit, and had forgotten how much I enjoyed it as I was
lulled into sloth and the sampling of other brewers' beers (which I much
appreciated during my long dry spell - special thanks to Jeff Renner and,
especially, Chris "Crispy" Frey who saw to it that my brew fridge always
had a six or two of "fresh" :-) by the electronic aspect of my brewer's
existence.

On another note, Saturday evening was spent bottling off the CAP for the
2000 AHA NHC. For those planning to attend the banquet, you're in for a
treat on this one! Between this beer and the mead for this conference,
you'll not have better fare anywhere else that weekend!

Thanks to all who gathered with the 2000 AHA NHC Brew Crew to put this
beer into the requisite 12 oz containers. A ball was had by all there, and
the, um, "quality control samples" were simply delicious.

So much so that I think I'll have to produce a CAP this summer. In honor
of one of those responsible to the style's resurrection, I think I'll name
this brew "Jeff Renner's Father's Nose Hairs"...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged 
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:04:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: br at interport.net (B.R. Rolya)
Subject: Re: Blanche De Chambly

Bill wrote:

>Blanche De Chambly is a wheat beer made by Unibroue, inc.  They are
> a French company with large operations in both France and Canada.

Just so the wrath of the separatists doesn't descend on the hbd, I'd like
to point out that Unibroue is a French-Canadian company (or should I say,
Quebecois company).  While they export to France, they are not French.  If
you are ever in the Montreal area, the brewery (and beer restaurant) plus
the old fort at Chambly make a nice day trip.  (no, the tourist board has
not paid me for my endorsement)


>They do make a number of outstanding brews.

I'll heartily concur with that statement!  I enjoyed a Trois Pistoles and a
Don de Dieu just last night...


>They have an awesome web page that describes all their products

www.unibroue.com



 - BR
Malted Barley Appreciation Society
New York
http://hbd.org/mbas/




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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 10:22:43 -0600
From: adam larsen <euphonic at flash.net>
Subject: dairy ales

    Hello,

    I am a long time subscriber to your digest who felt the need to seek
the technical expertise of  the readership.  I am primarily interested
in obsolete ales and brewing techniques.  A great number of  these old
fashioned recipes call for the use dairy products in ales and
starters.   While i've had several fine ales that uses cream, milk or
eggs i wondered what literature, technical or other wise, exists that
would describe how dairy products effect the flavor profile of  ales.
It would also be handy to know if any differences in head retention,
carbonation and mouth feel result from dairy additions.  Finally is
their any consensus regarding when dairy products should be added during
the production process?
Thanks,

Adam



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:38:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: Re: freezing malt

i think it's difficult to make comparisons between a preparation of
purified enzyme and the stability of that enzyme in it's native
environment. clearly many proteins do not like to be frozen, yet we
are still able to freeze and thaw the cells from which those proteins
were isolated (ie, bacteria, T.C. cells) and they still grow. 

more worthless blather from...
 -patrick in toronto

On June 4, 2000, Stephen Alexander wrote:

 > Oh yeah.  Purified barley beta-amylase is destroyed by freezing.
 > Some other plant BAs degrade slowly with freezing.  That may be
 > why Mary Ann Gruber of Breiss suggested avoiding it. I doubt,
 > based on reports, that the impact is severe but a may still show up
 > in the 'con' column for this method.

- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		      http://www.finerty.net/pjf


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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:27:01 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Dr. Pivo's grain distinction


Doc,

about your chocolate malt vs mouse turd identification, you asked:
If I just "brew with it" and it turns out to be the latter, what
characteristics should I expect in terms of "mouth feel"? "head retention"?
"colour"?

I don't know about the mouth feel or color, but as to the head- I'd expect
it to be mousy. (I suppose you could use the same descriptor in relation to
the mouthfeel and colour?) Hmmm ... looking at the dictionary, I find 'mouse
barley' - a noun defined as wall barley. Perhaps you don't have to worry at
all.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL





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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:11:48 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Hard water

Brewsters:

Aaron Sepanski says that with high alkalinity hard water adding calcium
sulfate is not desirable as the solution is saturated in calcium anyway.
And that phosphoric acid is superior to lactic acid in modifying the pH. 

Nope and nope.

Hard water is simply water which has some calcium ions and is not
necesarily saturated. Calcium can exist as a salt in hard water as the
sulfate ( permanent hardness) and  as the (bi) carbonate ( temporary
hardness). In neither case does the calcium have to be saturated to call
the water hard.  It simply has to react with stearate ion  from soap to be
"hard" in practical terms. Quite often water is a mixed permanent and
temporary hardness. High alkalinity water indicates a high bicarbonate
content and that at least part of the hardness is temporary and can be
reduced by boiling and decanting.

The concern in adding too much calcium is that the phosphate from the malt
which is needed in the yeast metabolism may be depleted by adding too much
calcium, as well as imparting a metallic, bitter
( more often from magnesium)  or dry, minerally taste in the beer,
especially with the sulfates.

I prefer lactic acid since it is a weak acid and in line with natural
sources of acid used by Germans in adjusting the pH with things like
Sauermalz. It gives the beer a smooth character which phosphoric acid does
not in my opinion. The calcium salt of lactic acid is pretty soluble,
unlike the calcium salt of phosphoric acid.  The use of phosphoric acid
will remove calcium which may not be what you want to do, especially for
ales.


Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: 05 Jun 2000 15:07:12 EDT
From: Jeffrey.L.Calton at Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffrey L. Calton)
Subject: Hot side aeration during mash.

I've been a dedicated all-grain brewer for many years, but I'm new to the digest
so let me first apologize if this question has been beaten to death.  Lately
I've been thinking about ways to improve the efficiency of my brewing sessions
while at the same time improving the final product.  For mashing, I've always
conducted the mash in an aluminum mash kettle.  Besides the obvious advantage of
being able to apply heat to the mash to bring it to my final temperature range,
the kettle I use is just the right size to fit inside my prewarmed oven,
allowing near perfect heat insulation during the two hour mash.  The major
disadvantage with such a system, and my reason for posting this, is that
following the mash I have to pour the hot wort into my plastic false-bottomed
sparging bucket, a process that undoubtedly results in considerable hot-side
aeration.  


I have two questions.   First, what's the consensus regarding the amplitude of
the detrimental effects seen from such aeration.  If I am experiencing off
flavors because of mash aeration, I haven't recognized it.  I mainly brew well
hopped pilsner, perhaps my hop profile is masking such an effect.  More likely,
if the effect is there I just don't know enough to recognize it.  I've heard
lots of people say that aeration during the mash is a bad thing, but frankly, I
can't believe the effects contribute much to the overall scheme of things given
the amount of aeration that must occur during a 90 minute full rolling boil.  


My second question is this:  If it is generally agreed that mashing and sparging
in the same bucket to reduce hot side aeration will improve ones beer, is this
perceived benefit worth what seems to me to be a tradeoff of trying to hit ones
mash temperature by adding hot or cold water to the mash tun?  If I switch to a
combination mash/lauter tune made from a Rubbermaid cooler how easy is it to hit
and maintain a target mash temp without being able to simply apply heat to the
bottom of the container?


Thanks,


Jeff Calton

Enfield, NH




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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 15:26:05 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Pivo's infested malts

Dr. Pivo wrote:

>I once got a supply of malt from a brewery that
>was infested with little red mites (Well I don't actually KNOW they were
>mites, but I called them that, and they were chewing on my grains and I
>was displeased).  [snip]  I got two shipments in a row with similar
infestations,
>which meant I kept my malt parked in the freezer for over a year. 
>Outside of needing higher strike temperatures, I never noticed a
>difference at all.

>Does anyone know how one can tell the difference between "chocolate
>malt" and "mouse turds"?

>For my failing eyesight they look desceptively similar.

>If I just "brew with it" and it turns out to be the latter, what
>characteristics should I expect in terms of "mouth feel"? "head
>retention"? "colour"?

Doc,

I think the protein from the mites will balance out the negative effects of
the rat turds...

[Shudder!]

But is the optimal mashing schedule these ingredients?  Anyone?  Anyone?

Glen Pannicke
www.pannicke.net


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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:36:04 -0600
From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: Foster's IBUs

According to the folks at the Abbotsford CUB facility, Foster's has been
dumbed down from the 23-IBU version for Australia to a 19-IBU version for
the U.S. market.

Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org)
Director, American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302        voice(303)447-0816 x 122
fax (303) 447-2825
Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org





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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:51:21 -0400
From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Brewing software

In HBD #3341 Dan Martich asked about brewing software.

Dan, there is a program available for download that you can try for free.
 This is called the Home Brew Recipe Calculation Program (HBRCP) and can
be found at:  http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/hbrcpweb.htm

I have only recently started using this program but was so impressed that
I registered it and now use it all the time.  It has extensive tables of
grains, hops, yeasts and adjuncts, and all are fully modifiable.  As for
calculations, it has been able to calculate anything that I have thought
of.  The best way is to just try it - for free.  If you like it you
register it, if not try something else.  I guess I should add a
disclaimer here:  I am not in business with the author or distributor of
the HBRCP and I am in no way financially associated with them.  Good luck
in your software search.  Happy brewing.


Eric Lande
Doylestown, PA


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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 16:15:08 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: dry lager yeast

The comment came up during Clayton Cone's recent appearance
here, but I'd like to hear people's opinions on dry lager
yeast.  The only one I've found that really ferments at
lower temps is Yeast Lab's European Lager yeast, and have
had reasonable success with it.  I did order some Vierka
(sp?) lager yeast from a supplier but the instructions on
the back said to ferment at room temperature for a week,
then chill.  Not a lager in my book.

Any thoughts?  If Rob Moline wants to comment on anything in
Lamelland's pipeline I'd love to hear it.  The Nottingham
and Doric yeasts are starting to make me a dry yeast convert
again for "standard" beers (i.e. ones where flavors from the
yeast provide strong contribution).  My recent British
bitter was ready for the keg and pretty tasty only five days
after pitching.  It has rounded out nicely since then.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:40:09 -0400
From: David Houseman <dhousema at cccbi.org>
Subject: Buzz Off 2000 Results

The 2000 Buzz Off is behind us.  The BUZZ homebrew club wishes to thank Beer
Unlimited, Malvern, PA for their support.  Thanks also to the New Road
Brewhouse in Collegeville, PA for their hospitality in hosting this
competition.  Additionally I'd like to thank all the judges, stewards and
members who worked to make this year's competition another success, our 7th
year.  Results are posted at:  http://www.mss-software.com/buzzoff/index.html .

David Houseman



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 17:40:33 EDT
From: WayneM38 at aol.com
Subject: Are My Hops Ruined?

Are My Hops Ruined?

Now that we are in the middle of hop growing season, the reports of plague 
and pestilence are on the increase. Keep in mind that most plants can 
tolerate a fair amount of leaf damage (to the eye) before harvest/yield drops 
off.

Spider mites seem to be a common ailment and many people do not want to use 
pesticides. One easy method to find out if you have a mite infestation is to 
take a very white sheet of printer paper, hold it under a nice cluster of hop 
leaves and smack the cluster of leaves a few times with your hand.  This will 
dislodge the little critters and make them visible on the sheet of paper. A 
press of the finger will smear the little buggers.

We control mites with a combination of beneficials, soap and cultural 
practices at the Horticultural Conservatory.  Insecticidal soap and regular 
misting with water will knock down heavy infestations.

We have had good mite control using the following beneficial mites. We 
release on a monthly schedule during the summer. The three species we have 
used are: Amblyseius, Metaseiulus and Phytoseiulus. They each have their own 
target pest and temp and humidity requirements. They are not inexpensive. A 
single release of 1000 will be $15.00+.  

A good source of beneficials/information, no affiliation yada yada is

http://www.rinconvitova.com/

This page has their GPS coordinates(?), an 800 number and E-mail address and 
that's it. You can request an informative paper catalog that lists other 
interesting products. Nice to deal with.

Does anyone live close to any hop production fields?  
It would be interesting to find out what spray materials are applied and just 
how often they are used to keep their commercial crops clean.  Apparently 
insects destroyed hop production in Wisconsin in the late 1800s and helped to 
moved hop yards west.


Wayne
Botanist Brewer
Big Fun Brewing in MKE
http://member.aol.com/bfbrewing/BigFunBrewing.htm


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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:05:26 EDT
From: BIL2112L at aol.com
Subject: Genny

Greetings fellow brewers! When I'm slumming or the wife puts me on a "beer 
budget," I like to drink Genny cream ale. All this talk of Fosters and "why 
would you bother?" has prompted me to ask if anyone can help me formulate a 
receipt for this beer. I know half of the responses will slam me but, any 
help would be cool. Private e-mail O.K. 


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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:24:48 -0700
From: "Aaron Sepanski" <madaarjul at earthlink.net>
Subject: Yeast Respiring In Wort

I'm not sure if I read a previous post correctly, or who wrote it, but was
there ever a consensus about yeast respiring in wort?  Because yeast does
respire in wort.  Big breweries (and labs) will measure the amount that
yeast respires, this number is called the respiratory quotient.  Although
the extent is rather small, it still happens.



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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:26:02 -0400
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net>
Subject: Phosphoric Acid Sources?

Does anyone know of a good source of food grade Phosphoric acid in
reasonable quantities at reasonable prices?

Thanks,
Reif Hammond



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---