---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  re: cider pointers (Dick Dunn)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Shame On South Australia ("Dave Edwards")
  Fermenting Cornies (Roger Whyman)
  Re: Schlitz (Jeff Renner)
  Re: 6 row malt (Jeff Renner)
  RE: mystery beer (Demonick)
  Re: Stroh's fate? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: mystery beer (Jeff Renner)
  Wyeast ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Re;  P-cooking (William Frazier)
  Re: P-decoction (Lance Levsen)
  Aspirators/venturi tubes (EdgeAle)
  Re: The Jethro Gump-BT Report (David Lamotte)
  rubbery stuff in wort (AA8JZDial)
  Bloody computer, photos, cornie fermenters, my Biere de Garde ("Graham Sanders")
  diacetyl problem in Export (Pete Gottfried)
  CAP yeast (John Varady)
  Iodophor & TSP ("A.Carminati")


* Don't miss the 2000 AHA NHC in Livonia, MI 
* 6/22 through 6/24 http://hbd.org/miy2k

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 17 Jun 00 00:40:12 MDT (Sat)
From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: cider pointers

"Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au> wrote:
>               tomorrow we are going to an Adelaide Hills orchard for an
> apple crush, fresh juice for 70 cents/litre. Of course I'm going to make a
> cider but all my books are in storage and I need a few pointers please,
> 
> 1. I want to avoid a boil, is one vital?

No.  In fact, boiling apple juice would do serious harm to your cider.

> 2. if I pitch 14 grams of Coopers dried yeast (lots) will campden tablets
> be necessary?

14 grams per what volume?  Later you said 20-25 liter--if that's what you
mean, then 14 g is plenty.

But no, Campden tablets are not necessary if you're working with clean
juice and you've got adequate viable yeast.  A nontrivial number of hobby
and small-scale-commercial cidermakers make very nice ciders without
Campden tablets *and* without pitching a yeast...they use just the natural
yeasts available on the apples.  (You probably don't want to try this for
your first cider.)

If you do use Campden tablets, allow about a day before pitching a yeast
culture.  And don't get carried away.  I've seen recommendations to use as
much as 2 tablets per gallon...which is insane!  If I were going this route
I might use 2 tablets in a 5-gallon (5 US gal is about 19 liters) batch.

> 3. will yeast nutrient or energizer be necessary?

No.  Apple juice has plenty of nutrients.  The more common problem is that
it will ferment too quickly, rather than too slowly...which is to say that
you'll have all the nutrient you need and then some.

> 4. should I add sugar of any form? High alcohol isn't that important.

Even if you don't want high alcohol, you do want enough alcohol to get its
preservative effect.  Check the gravity of the juice.  If it's at least
1.045, you're marginally OK.  If it's over 1.050 you should be fine.  If
you're in the marginal range, you might add just enough sugar to get up
over 1.050.  If you don't have a hydrometer handy, the main criterion is
that the apples be fully ripe at pressing so that they have enough sugar.
(It can be hard to tell by taste, because acid and tannin can deceive you
into thinking the sugar isn't present.)

My bias is that if you don't need to add sugar to get the gravity up to a
safe value, don't add anything.  Adding sugar increases the alcohol without
changing the other characteristics much, so it can make the cider appear to
be "thin" (lacking body, lacking other tastes to balance), or harsh.

Shameless plug:  Discussion of cider-making can be found on the Cider
Digest.  To subscribe, send email with the word "subscribe", your email
address, and your full name, to cider-request@ talisman.com.  This is
something akin to the HBD, only on a much smaller scale.
- ---
Dick Dunn          rcd at talisman.com          Hygiene, Colorado  USA
   ...Simpler is better.


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 02:52:05 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report

>From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
>Subject: Polyclar / cornies / HSA
><SNIP>
>Lynne O'Connor commented about or favorite thread: HSA
>>Since brewing scientists can't reach a consensus on the importance of hsa,
>>I'd be disappointed if homebrewers did.
>This is the only sensible comment I've heard on HSA so far!  All this
>postulating, formulating and experimenting... it's fakakta!

     ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!!

     Avoid the question if you wish...I will avoid HSA!
     (Why do you think Victory Brewing paid more than market to build their
brewery? Specifically to avoid HSA!.....Conversely....  Why do you think
most brewing advocates on this subject have never operated a brewery?...I
don't know!)
     My efforts gain results...others postulate.....YMMV...My mileage is
personal practice based...and effective....

>From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Liquid vs. dry yeast (for newbies)
>Yes, liquid yeasts are usually a cleaner yeast culture with less
>contamination.  (I'm told that dry yeasts have improved greatly, but I
>haven't used a dry yeast in years.)  I think it is great that you went
>right for the liquid yeast as a Newbie Brewer.  Using liquid yeast and a
>wort chiller are the two easiest things a newbie can do to make better
>beer.
><SNIP>
>Ted at the Prohibition Park Brewery, Staten Island
>
>"Jay Hummer" <jayhumm at zdnetonebox.com> asks
>> What's the deal with liquid vs. dry yeast? ><snip>
>> What's a newbie to do?
>> Jay Hummer

     Sorry, Ted...but as one who states that he hasn't used a dry yeast in
years...you know not of what you speak.....
     I offer no complaints about liquid yeast, I have used them/sold them
myself.....and they do offer advantages that are not available to dry yeast
users...mainly selection, variety...and they are great products.....
     And I personally am proud to know the owners of the major liquid yeast
manufacturers...They make a great product.......and are truly grand
people.....

	But dry yeasts do offer other advantages, namely not having to plan days in
advance of a brew with starters.....and more....
      Certainly, it is possible to brew beers with dry yeasts that are
capable of winning awards on a National, and International circuit, even
with high gravity beers....
      I would appreciate it if, as you state, not having used them in years,
that you don't issue statements that proclaim that dry yeasts are more
contaminated than wet yeasts....
      They were great yeasts when I was in a position to use them
commercially....and have only improved since.....

      You are mistaken...Sir.

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
515-268-1836 hm
515-450-0243 cell
brewer at isunet.net
jethro at isunet.net
Lallemand
AHA
AHABOA
IBS
MBAA
Siebel Alumni
Ames Brewer's League
Brew Rat

Gold Medal, 1996 GABF, Barleywine, Dry Yeast, Nottingham, Lallemand, (10.44
% ABV)
Gold Medal, Barleywine, 1997 World Beer Championships, Dry Yeast, Lallemand
Silver Medal, Barleywine,1996 World Beer Cup, Dry Yeast, Lallemand
Silver Medal, Porter, 1996 World Beer Championships, Dry Yeast, Lallemand
Silver Medal, Amber Ale, 1996 World Beer Championships, Dry Yeast, Lallemand
Silver Medal, American Pale Ale, 1996 World Beer Championships, Dry Yeast,
Lallemand
Silver Medal, American Blond Ale, 1996 World Beer Championships, Dry Yeast,
Lallemand
Bronze Medal, Wheat Ale, 1996 World Beer Championships, Dry Yeast, Lallemand
Bronze Medal, Raspberry Wheat Ale, 1996 World Beer Championships, Dry Yeast,
Lallemand
Silver Medal, Peated Porter, 1996 World Beer Championships, Dry Yeast,
Lallemand



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:05:33 +0930
From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Shame On South Australia

Phil wrote:

| But what I am upset about is the beer available on tap at the Adelaide
| casino. It was once that Coopers Pale Ale, Sparkling Ale and Dark Ale was
| available. Now Coopers has been dumped completely. Very sad. The closest
you
| can now get is a Southwark Pale Ale, nothing but a Coopers copy. This is
to
| a foreigner a great pity. I was hoping to show off your casino to Steve
| Alexander (the great betting man) but I doubt he will like the Southwark.

Phil, you should come now, Southwark have released a new beer, Southwark
White. It's not in bottles yet, just a limited release on tap at certain
locations. I don't know if it's at the casino, but the beer itself is quite
tasty, kind of like what West End Draught would taste like if made by a
homebrewer, as in that it has a good flavour.

I'll admit also that I would sit and listen to Roy and HG on the radio
commenting the State of Origins, and that during the world cup, I would stay
up into the wee hours of the morning watching the wallabies ANIHILATE all of
those lesser sporting 'nations'. So I suppose it's cheers to football of any
code, as long as it's played by an Aussie.

Cheers,
Dave.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 08:06:08 -0600
From: Roger Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: Fermenting Cornies

Dave Burley writes:
<Often the topic comes up of using cornies for fermenters. I am not
being
<critical but I am often puzzled why one would do this.

<I can think that perhaps it is possible to get several cornies into a
<fridge for temperature controlled fermenting, versus perhaps only one
<carboy because of the shape of the respective vessels,  but are there
other
<reasons?  I could imagine the cornie used for this purpose is difficult
to
<keep clean, isn't it? What with all those nooks and crannies around the

<fittings, the difficulty in making a good seal and such. How do you
remove
<that bathtub ring easily? Aren't you limited to say 4+ gallons of beer
<versus 5 gallons?

As a brewer that has fermented in 10 gal. cornies for a long time(with a
wall full of ribbons), I would say "Don't knock it if you haven't tried
it"

Rog



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:15:08 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Schlitz

Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org>
>Wow, I'd didn't know there were other 'old' Schlitz fans. That was my
>brew of choice during my Navy days in the late '60s at Pensacola and Key
>West. Got back home and the Ohio Schlitz didn't taste as good, so that
>relationship ended. Anyone else notice a difference?

Bob - I wonder if you were getting 3.2 beer (3.2% avw, 4% abv) when you got
back in Ohio.  Back in the 60's when I came of age in Ohio, and until the
drinking age nationally was temporarily dropped to 18 in the 70's some
time, that's all 18-20 year olds could buy, or anyone on Sundays.  Even if
you were over 21, that may have been what you were getting.  The strong
beer was called 6 per cent - not that it was, just maximum allowable.  It
was probably only 4% abw/5% abv.

Just another reason you Aussies can be glad you got the convicts and we got
the religious zealots.

The 3.2 limit was an arbitrary limit from the end of prohibition, when it
was decided that that level was non-intoxicating and could be sold before
the passage of the 21st amendment ending prohibition.  That
non-intoxicating designation was challenged every weekend by huge numbers
of 18 year olds.  Oxford, Ohio, home of Miami University, reputedly had the
highest level of per-capita 3.2 beer consumption in the nation.


Speaking of Pensacola and the Navy, I hope you all will indulge me a little
fatherly pride here on Father's Day weekend and let me brag on my son,
Matt.  He called me Thursday from Pensacola to say that I was speaking with
the Navy's newest carrier qualified pilot!   He was out of the jet by the
time he called, but let me tell you, he was still flying high.  He said
that the catapault shot off the end of the Enterprise was like nothing else
in the world.

To make this last part beer related, he said they were going out to
McGuire's brewpub to celebrate.  It has money from all over the world taped
on the walls from patrons.  The beer's fairly good if you can keep them
from serving it in iced mugs.  And it isn't 3.2%.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:24:11 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: 6 row malt

Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com wrote:
>2 row's Diastatic power is
>usually around 140.  6 row is slightly more, usually about 150.

Minor refinement of the numbers - Briess's web page says 6-row is 140,
2-row is 120.  Same diff'.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 08:14:18 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: RE: mystery beer

A quick net search yielded these 2 links and others.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/01/07/fin_hudepohl_beer_brands.html
http://www.cincys-brewery.com 

For 112 years the combined brewing heritage of the Hudepohl-Schoenling
Brewing Company has provided Cincinnati with quality, fresh beer
produced with pride by generations of family brewers.

Cincinnati was the nation's most famous and fabulous brewing center in
the late 19th century. About 95% of the beer consumed locally was
produced by one of the 36 local breweries, and Cincinnatians consumed
more beer per capita than the people of any other city in the nation.

The Hudepohl-Schoenling Brewing Company was created in a 1986 merger
of the 101 year old Hudepohl Brewing Company and the 55 year old
Schoenling Brewing Company. The union now represents the last of the
original great Cincinnati breweries.

In 1885 Ludwig Hudepohl II (pronouned "Hudy-pole"), the son of German
immigrants, and George Kotte founded the Hudepohl and Kotte Brewing
Company by purchasing the already thriving Koehler Brewery, popularly
known as the Buckeye Brewery. The new owners continued producing a
Buckeye Beer along with their new labels: Dortmunder, Muenchener and
of course, Hudepohl.

The 18th Amendment known as the Volstead Act or "Prohibition" all but
producing "near beer" and soft drinks.

DID YOU KNOW?  During WWII, Hudepohl Beer was selected by the war
department for use by American GI's in the Pacific theater of
operations. The beer was parachuted to troops stationed at hundreds of
US island bases.

Today Hudepohl-Schoenling continues to celebrate Cincinnati's long
standing tradition of beer making with a portfolio of many fine
beverages. In 1996 Hudepohl-Schoenling Brewing Co. entered into a
supply agreement with The Boston Beer Company, producing many of
Boston's beers. This production/brewing arrangement still continues
however in early 1997 Boston Beer acquired the facility and
Hudepohl-Schoenling acquired the supply agreement. We all look forward
to many years of brewing great beer. Prosit!
- --------------------------------------------



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:01:53 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Stroh's fate? 

James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>In light of the recent thread concerning Schlitz, I was curious if
>anyone on the list  can provide information on what happened to Stroh's.
<snip>
>A few years ago while traveling, I bought some Stroh's in a blue can to
>stock the hotel fridge. T ...  Very bad choice. ...

> Was this a typical experience?, or just a
>poorly stored or old batch?  What happened to Stroh's?  Did their beer
>change and like Schlitz they lost a 'generation' of loyal consumers?

I suspect that either it was a badly stored pack or your taste buds
changed.  Its sales have dropped so much that it doesn't move as fast as
the big names.  After years of dancing in the merger/acquisition dance,
Stroh's was sold last year to Miller and Pabst and different breweries are
brewing it.  Doubt that the differences would be all that great.

Here's a little of what I know about Stroh's.  First, for some years
they've brewed with corn syrup, not grits.  That saves money since they
don't have to have a cereal cooker and they can brew a greater capacity  in
the mash kettle (no grits).

Early this century, one of the Stroh's boys came back from Germany
convinced that direct fired kettles made a difference, and so they tore out
the steam heat and added burners, and touted that Stroh's was "Fire
Brewed."  They dropped this a few years ago.

There's a big non-technical chapter on Stroh's in the book _Brewed in
Detroit_ by Peter Blum, Stroh historian and  brewing chemist.  Mr. Blum
will be speaking at the National Homebrew Conference in Livonia (Detroit)
next week.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:16:35 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: mystery beer

Birder Nina Cohen <nina at swva.net> asks about
>two rusty old beer cans. They're shaped like a tin
>of beans rather than a modern beer can, and have two opposing
>'triangles' in the lid to drink through instead of the usual single
>triangle. They have a gold label and I think the beer is called
>'Hudepohl', with a brewery in Cincinnati, Ohio. ...
> Why did they have two holes instead of
>just one? I've never seen anything like it.


Nina, you must be younger than about 35 or so.  You've given old timers
like me a chuckle.  Beer cans used to have no pull tabs and were indeed
just like a can of beans.  That's what the pointy part of a "church key"
was for.  You hooked the little hook on the key under the lip and pressed
the sharp point into the top of the can, then turned it 180 degrees and did
it again, the poured the beer out.  The second triangular opening let air
into the can so the beer flowed out of the other hold without glugging.
Often you'd make the second opening smaller.

I'd guess that pull tabs are something like 30 years old, but beer can
collectors would know for sure.

Hudepohl was one of the old Cincinnati brands that I grew up with (along
with Burger, Schoenling, Bavarian, Weidemann, and maybe another one or
two).  It was operating way under capacity and doing contract brewing for
Boston Brewing (Sam Adams) and others.  Then about two years ago Boston
Brewing bought the brewery.  I think they are still brewing Hudepohl.

I think there are sort of "field guides" for beer cans that might help you
date the can.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:57:25 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: Wyeast

Jason asks about a slow Wyeast pack:

>Last week I smacked a pack of this yeast in preparation to brew an Oatmeal
stout. I dutifully waited a couple days, and then a couple more and then a
couple more. No growth. Nothing.

Remember you need to add about a day for each month after manufacture date
for activation. We keep XL packs for 5 months only, and the regular packs a
little longer. A XL pack older than 5 months needs a starter. All regular
50ml packs should use a starter.


>Now, after about 8 days of sitting at room temperature (all conditions have
been fine with the package - from purchase to today), I finally see the
package expand. What I thought was dead yeast was simply slow.


We've never ever had a pack fail to swell, but if it took this long, you
definitely need to make a starter to use this yeast. Otherwise your lag time
will be too long, risking infection, and poor attenuation. It doesn't take a
very high population to make the pack swell, but you want to have at least
40 billion, and if it took 8 days to swell, I think it doesn't have enough.


>Here is my question. I have another brew day scheduled for a week or so
from
now. It is going to be a light-bodied honey ale. Will the Irish ale yeast be
a decent yeast for such a light-bodied ale? Or will it create an odd taste?
(I have only used 1084 for stouts and have been happy with it).


The 1084 will be malty and somewhat estery,  it will accentuate what malt
you do have in the recipe, and de-emphasize the hops.  I'd recommend
something like 1275 for a honey ale, because I prefer clean and dry.  For
something softer 1318 would be my choice.

>Should I run and pick up new pack for the next session and scrap the 1084?

Nope, as long as you are willing to make a starter now, and feed it at least
once, so it will be ready for brew date.
See www.paddockwood.com/guide_yeast_starters.html for info on starters.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 19:00:29 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re;  P-cooking

Eric Tepe asks about using p-cookers for decoction, "I have a new pressure
cooker and am wanting to try a p-decoction. My main question is do I decoct
the thick part of the mash or just the first runnings?"

Eric-The simple answer is yes to the mash and to the first runnings.  Be
sure to follow the p-cooker instructions and use a covered inner pot for all
p-boils.  

I've been using a large p-cooker for some months and owe a big thanks to
Charles Rich for help getting started.  Also thanks to Jeff Renner for his
help with CAPs and Gregg Howard and Doug King for their help with rice
beers.  I've made six lager/pilsners using the p-cooker to-date and plan on
using it for all my pilsners in the future.  My Goldenrod recipe for a
four-grain pilsner follows with info on how I used the p-cooker (5 gallon
batch size).

Pilsner malt (DWC)      6.8 lbs 79%   
Corn meal (Aunt Jemima) 0.6      7
Rice (long grain)       0.6      7
Malted wheat (DWC)      0.6      7

Grains crushed with a Corona Mill.  Rice crushed quite small.

German Hallertau Hersbruck leaf hops (3.0 %AAU)
2.5 HBU First Wort Hopped       
2.5 HBU 60 minutes              
1.2 HBU 45 minutes
1.2 HBU 20 minutes

Estimated IBU at 28.8 using Noonan's formula

Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager

Soft water used with added calcium chloride
Sparge water acidified to pH 6 with lactic acid

P-CEREAL MASH
Combine 1 gallon brewing water, corn meal, rice and 1/2 lb
pilsner malt.  Heat to 150F in a small, covered brew pot.
Rest 15 minutes.  P-cook for 20 minutes at 15 psi.
Place the p-cooker in a sink of cold water to force cool.
Takes about 3 minutes.  This combination should be cooked in
a covered pot but I haven't had any problem with boil over at
this stage.  It speeds things up if you have the water in the
p-cooker boiling when you place the small brew pot inside.  
By doing this the pressure starts to build toward 15 psi
immediately.

MASH
Add 2-1/2 gallons brewing water to a preheated Igloo cooler.
Add remaining grains.  Add P-cereal mash and adjust temp. to
150F.  Rest 30 minutes.

P-DECOCTION
Pull 1.25 gallon of very thick mash.  Only enough mash liquid
to cover the grains is included.  P-cook for 30 minutes at
15 psi.  Force cool as above.  Add back to the main mash
raising the mash temp to 154F.  Rest 60 minutes.  Again, use
a covered pot but no problems with boil over at this stage.

SPARGE
I do not mash-out.  Sparge as usual taking about 1 hour. 
Collect 1 gallon of first runnings in a small, covered brew
pot.  P-cook this fraction of the wort for 40 minutes at 
15 psi while the remaining wort is collected.  Force cool
as above and add back to the bulk wort in the brew kettle.

Use a covered pot large enough so you don't have to fill
more than 2/3 full or it will boil over.  I have had this
unboiled wort boil over in the p-cooker and then it mixes
with the water used to float the p-cooker false bottom.  
Since everyting is sterile this isn't a problem but it can
mess up your boil time plans if you have to add this extra
water when you transfer the p-cooker contents to the main
boil.  Might not hurt to bring the wort to a boil and let
it settle down before raising the pressure.  

Starting sparge pH 5.23, brix 22.0
All pH readings at RT and brix with a hand-held refractometer.

BOIL
Total boil time was 75 minutes with hops added as shown 
above.  The wort was force cooled with an immersion chiller.
Cool wort was collected in a settling carboy and was aerated
by rocking for NLT 4 minutes.  I let the wort settle for 9
hours before pumping 5 gallons of crystal clear wort onto a
yeast cake from a previous batch.  

Actual extraction was 64.1% for 30.0 pts/lb/gallon

FERMENTATION
OG 1052.  Primary in glass at 50F for 14 days, SG 1009.
Secondary in SS at 50F for 10 days, SG 1009.  Lager in
SS at 32-35F for one month.  Rack to a serving keg and
rest at 45F to serve with about 12 psi carbonation.  The 
apparent attenuation was 82% even tho W2206 is rated at
73 to 77%.  SG readings taken with narrow-range hydrometers
at specified temperatures.

The beer is now 2-1/2 months old and is crystal clear,
pale yellow with a massive white head.  There is a 
pleasing hop nose (FWH?) and a BIG-BODY mouthfeel even tho the
FG was 1009.  The beer has an assertive but mellow hop
flavor and nice bitterness.  IOW - One of the best beers I've
brewed in the last ten years.  Reminds me of the PBR my father
drank back in the 50s and some other pretty good beers of that
era.

I have to think p-cooking contributes to the big
mouthfeel in this beer and the smoothness that complements 
a very pleasant hop flavor.  Wish you all could have a glass.

        Bill Frazier
        Olathe, Kansas








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Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 13:16:22 -0600
From: Lance Levsen <l.levsen at printwest.com>
Subject: Re: P-decoction 

Decoct the thick part of the mash first and work your way to a thin decoction,
over a couple or three decoctions.

I think the reasoning is that you don't want to denurture the enyzmes (being
water soluable) too early in the game.

Cheers,
- -- 
Lance Levsen, Programmer
Product Innovation,Web Development
PWGroup - S'toon.
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Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 16:02:26 EDT
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
Subject: Aspirators/venturi tubes

"Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> says

>>I used to pull a light vacuum (maybe 15 - 20 psi) with a faucet aspirator in
the lab.  I don't know where to find one, but would like to for various
reasons. I don't believe that they're very expensive.  The aspirator
attaches to the faucet and you run water through it into the sink.  The<<

American Science and Surplus used to sell plastic venturi tubes for about 
$2.50 (I think). They had hose threads for running water through and a plain 
unthreaded port where the suction was. A tube could be hose clamped here or 
just stuck on (the vacumm would hold it in place).

Dana



- ------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, San Diego
EdgeAle at cs.com


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Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 11:07:26 +1000
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Jethro Gump-BT Report

Sorry Jethro,

But my experience does not agree with yours.

I have heard all these "he is a good bloke.... give him time" sentiments
before, but I am afraid that I have run out of time.

I had a few issues left on my 2 year subscription, and was really impressd
that Stephen was doing more than just 'take the money & run' which is so
common in these situations.  I sent away my request for back issues, and
thinking that it would inject some much needed cash, supplied my credit
card details to purchase some additional back issues.  I did not take the
option to forgive the debt, because at the price of A$10 per copy I though
that I was already doing my bit to help.

After a few months I was delighted to find a BT envelope in my mailbox. 
Inside was a couple of magazines - a small proportion of what I ordered. 
"Ah well, perhaps the rest had sold out" ... I reasoned.  When my credit
card statement arrived, I was furious to find that I had been charged for
all the copies that I received.

Messages sent to the BT email address, as well as Stephen's new one at Real
Beer have gone unanswered.

And now you tell us that he has heaps of mags available - he had my contact
details, he had an envelope open with a stamp already on it.  He chose to
put only a few issues in and to charge me in full, contrary to my
instructions.  I have already paid for the postage, if Jethro is right, I
can look forward with great excitement to another envelope arriving.

Stephen is either a fool or a fraud.  You can only discredit yourself by
promising more than you can deliver - very foolish indeed.  But deep down,
I suspect the latter.

David Lamotte
Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia


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Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 23:53:53 EDT
From: AA8JZDial at aol.com
Subject: rubbery stuff in wort

Oh great beer wizards. Lend me an ear.
Last night I was brewing about my 30th all grain batch.
Rather then add gypsum to the hot liquor tank or the mash water I decided to 
just toss it in the grist.
While the wort was rolling around I noticed this funky stuff sticking to the 
big spoon.
Tannish brown color and had the consistancy of something between  compacted 
rubber bands and cheap gum.  So far no flavor consequences to my uneducated 
palate. My redheaded wife suggested the odd mashing technique and weird wort 
were related.
Is it possible I had some adverse reactions with clumps of gypsum causing an 
over reaction to the malt  since it was not homogenously mixed?
If she is right I will take over cooking and she will become the chief 
brewer.  But with that comes her splitting firewood, changing oil and 40 
hours a week at  the salt mines.
Any insight?
Rick Dial, AA8JZ
North Muskegon, Mi.



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Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:29:23 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Bloody computer, photos, cornie fermenters, my Biere de Garde



G'day All

I'm going to have to get a bigger hard drive.  Went to send the photos of my
Cornie Fermenter to everyone, (my there's a lot of interest), well I
overloaded the poor computer and killed the mouse running the wheel at the
back. Then in my frustration to revive the mouse I got impatient and instead
of giving a tiny cardiac massage, well I flattened the poor bugger and lost
all my mail.

So, if I haven't got back to you by now with information or photos, please
contact me again and I will resend the information, (that includes the
people who had specific questions).  I have two mice now and drugs to help
them along.

I was asked by a number of people how do you clean the gunk out of them.
Well, caustic soda NaOH is a great cleaner.  Does the job beautifully.  And
to cut those flames off at the wick, yes it can be dangerous, but if used
responsibly (like any chemical) its the best.

And my BdG. Well she was kegged on the weekend.  What a
beauty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.  Dont know whether its the caramelisation, or
the HSA I did, (and yes it may be a bit early to tell on this),or the
Blanche de Chambley yeast used, or the grain bill, or any combination of
these - But it tasted soooooooo BdG out of the fermenter.  I see now where
people talk about the taste of fresh BdG.  So unique.  I just cant wait to
try it in two months (as some have suggested), as well as trying it against
the other keg that has the wood in it.

A most interesting experiment, scientific or not.

Shout

Graham Sanders



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Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:19:09 -0400
From: Pete Gottfried <petebrew at localnet.com>
Subject: diacetyl problem in Export

I brewed a  Dort Export back in March using a repitch of Brewtek Swiss
Lager yeast from a prior batch of Export. Fermentation was carried out
on my basement floor and temp stayed in 54 degree range.

After beer fermented out I racked to keg and lagered for roughly 6 weeks
( I don't think I did a diacetyl rest). Tasted it last week and it was
everything I wanted it to be (the prior batch of Ex was a little too
bitter). Moved the keg from lager to server. Let sit for a week, pulled
it out of fridge for bottle filling for a competition, tasted it just to
be sure and voila...DIACETYL! I know the diacetyl was not there last
week. I'm very sensitive to it and would have picked up on it right
away. The sample I pulled was loaded with yeast and I noticed the more
yeast filled glasses I dumped the more the aroma went away. Let sit out
all day in basement where I'm sure beer temp climbed to mid 60's, vented
keg frequently, filtered it into another keg and just tasted. Diacetyl
is still there but not as bad.

My question is how the heck did the diacetyl get there if it wasn't
there the week before? Could my liquid disconnect have been infected and
in turn contaminated my beer when I took that first taste? Although I
filtered can I add some krausen beer to it to help kill diacetyl or can
I just do a yeast starter, say 1000 ml, and add that to the keg?

Your help is greatly appreciated,

Pete Gottfried
Buffalo, NY



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Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:59:54 -0400
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: CAP yeast

WRT my BOS CAP recipe, I used the Budvar yeast that St. Pats is selling as
Wyeast 2000. Very nice yeast, I like it a lot. I fermented a 1st place
Bohemian Pils, A BOS CAP, and a 2nd place Robust Porter (yeah! Lager Yeast
rules in a porter) from the same smack pack (for a total of 70+ gallons
over all).

I think I might just order another.

John

John Varady                     * New email address ***> rust1d at usa.net
Glenside, PA                    http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady



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Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:53:44 -0300
From: "A.Carminati" <carminat at email.com>
Subject: Iodophor & TSP

Hi folks,


My favorite sanitizer was bleach (for cost and availability) but since I'm
changing to SS soda kegs I've tried Iodophor for the very first time. I
added 1 TBS for 20 litres and (accordingly to some books I've been reading)
something of Phosphoric Acid (food grade  at  85 %). My plastic fermenter was
already clean (with bleach) but this "magical" mixture produced lots of foam
in it, when it was shaked. This foam was very persistent (about 30 min. to
disapear) so I decided to rinse afterwards.
Can anybody respond me if that  is normal ?
My other question is: I've found here (at very attractive prices)
Tri-poli-sodium phosphate (a soap component for dish-wash machine or grease
removers)... can it be used instead of trisodium phosphate (expensive) ?

Thanks in advance to all that want to help




        Alexandre Carminati (in Brazil)
        carminat at email.com




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