---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  whole hops to oz ("Darren Robey")
  Orstrillians and other nonsense. (Brad McMahon)
  Coopers Home Brew Show (LyndonZimmermann)
  phenolic flavors ("Lyga, Daniel M.")
  Frequency of posts from   *.au   and is there an original brew ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Re: Sweet Corn as Adjunct ("Scholz, Richard")
  Woodbridge Water/RO Water/ pH Meters ("A. J.")
  Re: Glacier RO Water. Wit Brewing (james r layton)
  extract and boiling times ("Bill Clark")
  Re: Stroh's Signature (Jeff Renner)
  Re: TEMPORARY WATER HARDNESS (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Cream Ales (Jeff Renner)
  Aussies!?! (David Sweeney)
  Re: Aussies!?! (Some Guy)
  Beer for Diabetics (Dan Listermann)


* 2000 AHA NHC pics and stories at http://hbd.org/miy2k
* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...
* Happy 4th of July!
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:54:12 +1000
From: "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au>
Subject: whole hops to oz



There are very good reasons why AQIS will not let homebrewers bring in whole
hops etc (or other ingredients). The importation of plant material into
Australia can and does lead to the importation of plant diseases. These diseases
can and do wipe out Australian industries. I've seen it happen.

I might sound over cautious or just some crackpot, but I work in an Agricultural
industry and I have seen well meaning people bring in diseases that are
devastating. The effect might not be seen for 20 years, but it still occurs.

The short answer is don't. If AQIS wont allow it, its for a reason.

BTW, I have no commercial or any other reason for strongly discouraging this
practice other than an interest in protecting our agriculture.

Regan, I think you as a brew shop owner should know better than even to suggest
in a public forum that people might circumvent Australian import quarantine
legislation.

Darren

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
well, since my name has been taken in vain... :)  AQIS specifically states
that the importation of whole hops "for homebrewing purposes" is forbidden.
Commercial breweries can, after jumping through the hoops, import whole
hops (and promise to keep them under lock and key, guard them with thier
lives etc). About a year ago, we ordered about 5 kg of Saaz, Fuggles and
EKG, which duly arrived through the post. Gleefully, we then ordered bigger
amounts, which were intercepted by AQIS, and destroyed, so I speak through
sad experience. For some reason, they don't worry about hop plugs, and of
course, hop pellets are no problem. I know some fellow oz brewers have
ordered whole hops in small quantities (250gm - 1kg) and received them,
others have not been so lucky.

cheers, Regan

Eastern Suburbs Brewmaker
149 Clovelly Rd. Randwick, 2031
N.S.W. Australia
ph/fax (02) 9399 8241
mailto:regan at esb.net.au
http://www.esb.net.au




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 17:34:22 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Orstrillians and other nonsense.

> From: tziersch at iprimus.com.au
> Yep, I'm another South Australian from Adelaide.

Wow ANOTHER one, we'll be running the damn show if we're not careful.

> Any of you Adelaidians going to the Coopers Home Brew show next weekend ?

Will be there along with Thomas H. at the Grumpy's Brewhaus stall trying
to sell you many many wonderous things.
 
> Too bad the home brew comp has the rule that you must have used a Cooopers kit
> in your brew :( I havn't used one of those in years.

How are they going to know? Spectrum analyse your beer? They are
allowing
you to add any ingredients you like including yeast,
so there is no way known they will be able to determine anything.
Many of Australia's brew kits use Cooper's malt anyway.

> From: "Glen Pannicke" <glen at pannicke.net>
 > While I can't relate to HALF of the stuff you guys "down under"
write, I do
> find the mud slinging to be amusing as well as educational.

How do ya think we feel trying to relate to you guys?? Hmmm?
Australians are fiercely territorial creatures as you have gathered
everyone 
enjoys fighting each other. The possible exception for a South
Australian
point of view are Western Australians, everyone else we laugh at (and
they,
in turn, at us)! Western Australians are just too remote, 2 to 3 days
drive through a desert is just too far!

> It's nice to know that homebrweing is not an American-dominated hobby
> and that we share the same passions on the other side of the world.

I have heard that there are an equal amount of Australian and American
homebrewers in raw numbers! Even though the U.S. has over 15 times the 
population. This may very well be true. However, most of these
Australian brewers are kit and kilo (of table sugar) brewers that
have never seen the inside of a brew shop. You see, here, homebrew
kits are sold in every supermarket so public awareness of brewing is
very high. It is getting those brewers to go to quality homebrew
stores (there are some shockers) and learn what to do is the hardest
part. It is beginning to happen. The microbrewery revolution is yet
to hit our shores. Once quality beer is readily available, more
people will want to clone it at home and not put up with their
insipid copies of macro-swill.

> From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
> Hi, Lyndon, I reckon an extract wheat beer base would be the go for a pLambic.

Also Lyndon, there is no excuse for not having tried a Lambic, they are
available
in bottle shops here you know. If you wish to do a Kriek or Frambozen, I
know
where I can get my hands on some imported Croatian Sour Cherry and
Raspberry syrups.

> AND if you Adelaide HBD lurkers want to put faces to names and beers to
> faces then you can catch the "Adelaide Hills Amateur Brewers" (that's Brad
> McMahon and me) at the Grumpy's Brewhaus Stall this Saturday (the 8th July)
> at the Coopers Homebrew Show, Wayville Showgrounds. We'll be rostered on
> from 10-2.

Just to clarify, there are MORE than 2 in our club, there were about 13
or so
at the last meeting including Lyndon up from the flatlands. What were
YOU drinking
Thomas?
You lurkers better be there! We will give you entry forms for the REAL
State competition.

Keep Brewing,
Brad McMahon, Germantown Hill Brewery, Aldgate, SA.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:57:11 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Coopers Home Brew Show

Troy (and other Adelaideans)

I believe I'll be fronting up at the Home Brew Show next weekend, I think
I'm supposed to fly the flag for NAWBS, the National Amateur Wine and Beer
Show and the Adelaide Amateur Winemakers and Brewers Club.

It's my first year with the NAWBS committee, and I hope we can make it a
good show again this year.

I won't be entering any brews at home brew show because, although I brew
primarily with Coopers kits I've never made a drinkable one according to the
instructions. I spend too much time laughing at people who read the
instructions instead of talking to their brewing mates, then explaining the
error of their ways. I bottled a Coopers Pilsener a couple of days ago,
looking good but was made with a lager yeast, fermented at 12 - 14C and with
a final addition of Saaz hop oil.  Sacrelige I know, I'll get around to real
brewing eventually.  Why do Coopers provide such misleading instructions on
a good base?

Lyndon Z

Lyndon Zimmermann
BE (Mech Adel) Grad Dip Bus Admin (UniSA)
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 07:46:50 -0400 
From: "Lyga, Daniel M." <lygadm at pweh.com>
Subject: phenolic flavors

Hello all.

	I brewed a Kolsch back in January, using Wyeast #2565, containing
about 15% wheat malt which I am drinking now.
Throughout the fermentation process, I noticed a "strange" aroma from this
batch which I described as medicinal - the
same flavoring is there now to a lesser degree.  Several replies to my
posting on the HBD at that time made mention
that this might be a phenolic flavor and could be caused by poor sanitation
(wild yeast) or possibly residual chlorine
(insufficient rinsing).  As I consider myself a novice brewer (2 extract
batches, 5 all-grain), I really could not (can
not?) put an example to my "phenolic" flavor.  I am quite careful with my
rinsing however, so I was leaning toward
the wild yeast theory.

	I recently tried a Duvel Belgian Ale and a Franziskaner
Hefe-Weissbier and noticed the same flavoring as
I've described in my beer.  I've been doing some looking around on the web
and through books, and I've read that
certain strains of yeast could, by design, produce a phenolic, clove-like
flavor.  As I've never actually tried a
Kolsch (or a Kolsch clone), I'm not sure if the beer I've created is a close
interpretation.

	Okay, now for my questions:
Would anyone else describe the Duvel and Franziskaner beers as having a
phenolic flavor/taste?
Are certain yeast strains expected to produce phenolic flavors?
Does a high(er) percentage of wheat malt contribute to phenolic flavoring in
a beer?


	At the time I was brewing my Kolsch, I was almost tempted to dump-it
for fear that I had created a monster; the
beer was so different from any others I've tasted.  After drinking several
of my beers and commercial examples of beer
with a similar taste, the flavor has actually grown on me.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Dan Lyga
Harwinton, CT.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:24:53 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Frequency of posts from   *.au   and is there an original brew

Well, I wonder if the increased ratio of posts from *.au vs. *.com or *.edu
is an indication of it being winter there and summer here.  More brewing
there, less here.


Anyway, I was also wondering, is there a unique Australian brewed beverage?
 Perhaps something developed by the aborigines made of beetle juice
fermented in a kangaroo pouch or something?

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:41:21 -0400 
From: "Scholz, Richard" <RScholz at refco.com>
Subject: Re: Sweet Corn as Adjunct

HI all,

>>Joel Plutchak asked if anyone has ever considered using sweet corn as an
adjunct.

Joe Kish wrote responding to the above.
>
 I planted some super-sweet corn to be used as the adjunct in a special
experimental C.A.P. as soon as the corn is ready. "Beer-Corn" I intend to
dip the corn in boiling water (to blanch), then scrape it against a corn-
creamer, and make several pounds of "creamed corn". I'll try mashing it with
6-row malt. This should be very interesting!! Would anybody care to comment
on this subject? 
>

I'd like to throw in my 2p. Using "Whole" corn in your grist will create a
very nice corn oil slick on top of your fermenter and you will end up with
beer without any head foam as the oil will kill all foam retention. You need
to use de-germed corn grits/meal/flour/flakes to get around the oil problem.
Also if you don't use flakes, you need to cereal mash (boil for 20-30mins)
the corn the gelatinize the starch, then add to the main mash. Corn has a
lot of oil in the "whole" grain. You don't see 5gallon cans of barley oil on
the grocery shelf. ;^). Stick with eating the backyard corn, boil the water
then pick the corn and plunge into the pot for a few minutes. This "fixes"
the sugars and converts some starch. Just find grits or flakes meant for
brewing and you will have a good CAP, cream ale, Pre-Pro lager.  Hope this
helps.

Later,

- -----------------------------------
Richard L Scholz
Brooklyn, NY




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 20:03:12 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Woodbridge Water/RO Water/ pH Meters

Assuming that Woodbridge/Dale City refers to Northern VA, the water will
have alkalinity of 80 - 100 ppm and harndess in the low hundreds.
Chlorides will be from less than 10 to perhaps 20 and sulfates in the
20's. This assumes that the water comes from the river or Bull Run. Who
is the supplier? If it's FCWA you should be able to obtain a very
complete report for the asking. If not, the FCWA report for the Ocoquon
plant should give you a pretty close match. Test for chlorine/chloramine
by drawing  a glassfull and letting it stand over night. If the smell is
gone in the morning, it was all chlorine. If it's still there, you have
chloramine.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Dean's diliution of RO and tap water should produce a fine Pilsner.
Harshness in these beers is often blamed on sulfate but if the RO system
is doing it's job, the sulfates should be down to 7 ppm and that's
plenty low enough. I'd have a word with the store that has the machine.
Ask them for an anlaysis of the water they are selling. At least I would
expect the machine to be equipped with a conductivity detector to let
them know if there is a failure. Conductivity should be less than 10 uS.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *

A few comments on Lynne's pH post.

The pH of water does indeed depend on temperature and is half the value
of pKw, the dissociation constant. A few values from the Rubber Handbook
follow

C       pKw
0       14.938
5       14.727
10     14.528
15      14.340
20      14.163
25      13.995
30      13.836
40      13.542
50      13.275
60      13.034
70      12.814
80      12.613

Thus it is at 25C that the pH of water is  nearly 7. Pure water as
observed in the laboratory seldom has a pH  near half pKw unless it has
just been boiled and cooled because CO2 from the air dissolves rapidly
and the carbonic acid formed lowers the pH. Even though CO2 comprises
only  0.03 to 0.05% of the atmosphere it can lower pH at 25C to the mid
5's.

The statement that mash pH variation in temperature is reflected by the
changes in water pKw is true if interpreted properly but is a bit
misleading as stated. It is not the change in the pKw of water which is
responsible for the change in mash pH but rather the change in the pK's
of the acids which form  the mash's buffering systems. These systems
have buffering capacities which completely swamp the buffering of the
water itself.

It is indeed frustrating that the temperature at which pH's are measured
is not given especially since my understanding (Steve?) is that it is
customary to specify the pH of enzyme systems at the temperature of
maximum activity for them. It is safe to assume, where commercial texts
are being cited, that laboratory temperature is intended unless
otherwize specifically stated. Standard practice calls for collection of
samples and refrigeration of them until they are brought to the lab
(ASBC MOA WORT -1). At the same time it is interesting to note that ASBC
calls for reporting of wort "from a practical standpoint" pH to 0.1 or
"at most" 0.05 despite the ready availablity of more accurate meters.

Uncorrected pH meters can measure pH accurately at any temperature
provided that the meter is calibrated at the temperature at which the
reading is to be made. The calibration must consider the fact that the
pH of the calibration buffers changes with temperature  for the same
reasons that the pH of water and mash/wort do. Good buffer packaging
tabulates buffer pH vs temperature. In the 150 example, if you warmed
the buffers to 150, adjust the offset to read 7 (or whatever the buffer
package says  for 150 which will be near 7 because 7 buffer's
temperature dependence is small), then go into the 4 buffer and adjust
the slope to 4 point whatever the package reads (pthalate buffer pH
increases with temperatur - the reverse of the usual case) the meter
will read correctly in in 150 wort or mash. What you have done here is
reduce the gain of the meter to compenstate that the electrode response
to a unit change in pH is (273 + 66)/(273 + 25) times what it is at room
temperature at 150F (66C). Alternatively, you can calibrate at room
temperature and do the correction for higher temperature manually. If
the microprocessor in the machine can do it, you can do it. Details can
be found on this subject in the BT article I wrote on pH a few years
back.

In summary, there are two issues with a pH meter and hot wort. One is
that the true pH of buffer systems (including just plain water) change
with temperature being 0.15 to 0.3 lower at mash temperature depending
on water mineral content and grist composition. Second: at a given true
pH, the electrical response ("slope") of the electrode changes with
temperature (its proportional to absolute temperature). It is this
latter effect, and only this latter effect, that is considered by ATC
algorithms.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:10:06 -0500
From: james r layton <blutick at juno.com>
Subject: Re: Glacier RO Water. Wit Brewing

Dean Fikar asked:

>Has anyone used the Glacier Water(tm) brand of RO water, typically sold
from
>vending machines for about $0.30/gal?

I use this water for all of my brewing and have never had reason to doubt
its quality. If the machine is functioning correctly, the water coming
out of it should have ion levels near zero. Regarding the harsh
bitterness in your Bohemian pilsner, old hops may be a factor. I have yet
to buy whole Saaz hops that were really fresh. I took a quick look at
Fix's AOBT, thought I remembered him writing that old hops => harsh
bitterness. I didn't find exactly that, but I did find where high wort pH
=> harsh bitterness. That might be a factor considering your grain bill
(all pils malt?) and mash water (very low Ca) may not settle in the usual
pH 5.2 range. 

Graham Sanders wrote:

>No One has come back on my Wit Question.  I have a temperature
compensating
>ph meter and I want to do a lactic rest for a day with a small amount of
>grain and then add to the main mash.  Can anyone tell me what ph's I
should
>be aiming for at all the stages.  All I can recall is that the wort
should
>be about 4.9 at the start of the boil.  Is that correct?

Sorry, I can't help you with that technique. Sour mashing is an area that
I have no desire to explore. If it were me, I'd skip the mash souring as
a way of obtaining the desired acidity and either (1) add lactobacillus
delbrukii from a pure culture after the primary fermentation, or (2) add
88% lactic acid to taste at packaging. Method 1 approximates the
traditional practice, method 2 is a modern shortcut that works well. I'm
not trying to talk you out of doing anything Graham, just offering my
take on it. 

BTW, I can't help but wonder where you read or heard about mash souring
in connection with wit brewing. Please tell.

I have but one book in my tiny library which has any significant
information on traditional wit brewing practice, that being Belgian Ale
by Pierre Rajotte. It has a fascinating description of one old mash
schedule for making wit. I've tried and tried to make sense of it,
drawing diagrams with labels and arrows in a vain attempt to keep track
of where each portion of the mash is at each stage of the process. I can
only conclude that Rajotte missed writing something down. It is obvious,
however,  that this mash is very similar to the turbid mash tecniques I
have read about in connection with lambic brewing. There is no mash
souring, the bacteria get started in the wort after the boil.

Jim Layton
Howe, TX 


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:54:44 -0500
From: "Bill Clark" <wrclark at smokinbrews.com>
Subject: extract and boiling times

This is my understanding on the need or need not to boil extract.  Please
point out any errors.  This information comes from reading home brew books
and literature from extract manufacturers.

First of all extract is made by vacuum evaportation, not boiling.  Unhopped
extract goes through the vacuum to be condensed and that is it.  It is not
boiled. After packaging it is pasteurized, however, except for drums.  For
this reason unhopped extract should be boiled.  I recommend at least 45
minutes to drive off the precursors to DMS.  I believe Dave Burley posted on
boiling and DMS a while back.

Hopped extract may or may not have gone through the boiling process.  I rely
on the directions on the can for boiling times (not sugar additions!!).
Some manufacturers add iso-hop extracts to the kit to give bitterness and
those kits probably need to be boiled for a while.  Other kits add just
hops, so I believe that those ones have gone through at least some boiling
in the process.  I think the instructions on the Mountmellick cans say
longer boiling times will result in a more bitter beer, so I am assuming
that un-isomerized hop extracts have been added.  Over-boiling kits that
recommend either no or a short boiling time is only going to drive off the
aroma and flavor hops, so those need to be added bake in.

And I have put some of this information to practice by brewing a few kits
according to the directions on the can.  The results were actually pretty
good.  Specifically I've brewed up a couple of Coopers kits and an Edme with
about 5 minutes and 15 mintues of boiling respectively (the Edme kit did
recommend 15 minutes of boiling while the Cooper's stated no boiling
required).  The extract manufacturers have at least started putting
expiration dates on the cans and more information (IBU OG etc.), so perhaps
they are also making these extracts so that really all the boiling etc. has
been done and boiling again is just overkill.  If they could only include
better packs of dry yeast in suitable amounts!

Also, I've made a few beers with bulging Mountmellick cans with no
noticeable defects.  My uderstanding is that the bulging cans were the
results of problems with their canning equipment, not their sanitation
processes.

Bill Clark
Lake Superior Smokin' Brews, Inc.
320 East Superior Street
Duluth, MN 55802
wrclark at smokinbrews.com
homebrew at smokinbrews.com
www.smokinbrews.com
800-720-0013



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:33:28 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Stroh's Signature

In Homebrew Digest #3365 (June 30, 2000), Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org> asks:
>Can anyone out there give a
>little background on Signature, history, clone, etc.

Sroh's brewers and historian Peter Blum spoke at the NHC last weekend in
Livonia and touched on this beer.  He was in charge of its development and
it was clearly a labor of love.  AS I recall, it was a nice beer but still
too tame for my tastes.  Maltier and richer than a standard American lager,
with nice flavoring hops, but nothing to write home about.

I can't remember exactly how Peter used the simile of "kissing your sister"
that Fred related, but I think it may have been more regarding light beers
than beers other than Stroh's.  Someone else who was there may remember
better.

He certainly was an entertaining speaker, especially for those of us
interested in the history of beer.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:27:10 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: TEMPORARY WATER HARDNESS 

"Hill, Steve" <SHill at advanta.com> writes
>I just moved into a house that has VERY hard well water. Lets just say that
>when I boil a pot of water for pasta --- there is a nice lime deposit on the
>bottom when finished.
<snip>
>Do I need to then rack off the boiled but cooled water before I heat it
>again for brew day?  If I heat up the water again while it is still sitting
>on the sediment, will this re-dissolve it into the water?

You should actually decant it off the precipitate as soon as it settles.
As it cools, two things will happen.  First, calcium carbonate, or CaCO3,
which is what your sediment is, is actually more soluble in cold water, as
I understand it.  Secondly, as it cools, CO2 will redissolve from the
atmosphere and make more CaCO3 dissolve back in.  When my water has been
boiling vigorously for a few minutes, I turn off the heat and give it a
stir until it's whirlpooling, then put a lid on it.  The ppt. is usually
piled up in a cone in the center ten minutes later or so.

Because this removes Ca++ that is necessary for mashing, you need to add it
back as CaCl2 (calcium chloride) or CaSO4 (calcium sulfate, or gypsum).  I
prefer CaCl2 for lagers and mild ales, CaSO4 for bitter ales.  Sometimes I
add my calcium salts before boiling as this helps remove more alkalinity,
but this has the disadvantage of leaving more Mg+.

If you boiled it, it wouldn't go back into solution but it would roil the
precipitate up and you'd need to let it settle again before decanting,
which you do need to do.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:18:02 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Cream Ales 

In Homebrew Digest #3367 (July 03, 2000), tkneall <tkneall at erols.com>

>Also, I've been researching cream ales.  I've read quite a bit,
>including a couple older references.  I'm looking for more of it's
>history and how it's evolved into what it is right now.  I'm also
>looking for tasting suggestions.  I've had Little Kings, Genessee, and a
>few others.

Read Ben Jankowski's article in May/June 1999 Brewing Techniques (I think
the last issue or nearly so).  Unfortunately, this article has not made it
one-line, but someone just posted a source for back issues for sale.

Cream ale evolved when late Nineteenth century ale brewers, seeing their
sales drop as the public's taste changed to pale, clear, effervescent
lagers, but lacking refrigeration and aging facilities, developed a beer
brewed like a pilsner, but fermented as an ale.  These were called "present
use,"  "sparkling," "Brilliant" or "cream" ales, and they have evolved into
today's cream ales just as classic American pilsners evolved, but the few
remaining cream ales today bear only a fleeting resemblance to their
ancestors.

For a great modern cream ale, use about 25% flaked corn, perhaps 5-10%
Carapils, the balance 6-row for authenticity or 2-row if you prefer, mash
at 155F, 1.048-1.052, hop to 15 IBU with Cluster for bitterness for
authenticity, or another neutral hop, some German Hallertauer or US Ultra
for FWH and/or flavor, ferment with the original Ballantine ale yeast
(Chico/American/West Coast), or WhiteLab's East Coast, or another yeast
that isn't too British in character.  I had very good luck recently with
Wyeast 1098, which certainly is British.  I suspect that White Lab's clean
Kolsch would be a good choice (actually would make a good pseudo lager).
Danstar's Windsor would make a richer ale, if you like it lean, try
Nottingham, but I didn't like it when I tried it in my cream ale derivitive
McGinty's Irish-American Red Ale this spring.  Too lean and dry for may
tastes.

Boost this recipe up to 30-40 IBU and 1.052-1.056 and you'll get what Paul
Shick calls an "unfortunate acronymn," CACA, or classic American cream ale,
the way it was brewed 100 years ago.

Jeff


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 13:55:26 -0500 
From: David Sweeney <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Aussies!?!

Aussies do carry on, don't they?

David Sweeney
Texas A&M University
david at studentlife.tamu.edu



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:37:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Aussies!?!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

> Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 13:55:26 -0500
> From: David Sweeney <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
> Subject: Aussies!?!
>
> Aussies do carry on, don't they?
>
> David Sweeney
> Texas A&M University
> david at studentlife.tamu.edu

Yeah! You'd think they'd learn the delicate self-control displayed by
Aggies when speaking of Longhorns.

Gig 'em...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:45:11 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Beer for Diabetics

Wimpy48124 at aol.com ( can we see a name that does not look funny ) aske
about beers for diabetics.

My old brewing partner turn out type II disbetic.  His doctor told him to
not drink beer.  If he must have alcohol, he should drink dry wine or
booze.  This seem to tell me that it was the residual sugar that the Doc
was worried about.

 I thought that a rye only beer with a long low conversion whose final
gravity was further cut with corn sugar would be an approach to a dry beer.
 Rye malt leaves a sliminess that should leave a bit of body.  I brewed 5
gallons with only 3 lbs of rye, a half pound of rice hulls mashed six hours
at 145'F.  1.5 lbs of corn sugar was added to the boil.  2 oz EKG for
bitter, .5 oz EKG the last 5 min and another .5 for seeping 5 min.

The OG was 1.029 and the FG, 1.004.  It was a nice medium body brew with
the slight earthiness that rye gives.  I liked it so much that I made
another for myself.

I never could get a straight answer from anyone about whether or not this
is the right approach for type 2 diabetics.  His wife about bit my head off
when he drank a whole six-pack one night.

Dan Listermann    72723.1797 at compuserve.com    dan at listermann.com


Return to table of contents

---