HOMEBREW Digest #3393 Wed 02 August 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Building Backyard Bathyspheres In Burradoo ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Spanish Moss (happydog)
  Alpha and Beta Amylase and Reverse Mash? (Brad Miller)
  re: spamish noss ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  The words, "Homebrew" and "Yobbo" (Debi Lake)
  Big-flavored mild (Breweler)
  Uh, I got a problem... ("Joe O'Meara")
  Quick-Drafting Bottles? ("Steven J. Owens")
  Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes ("Warren White")
  Bathyspheres and wastefull ozzie posts (David Lamotte)
  Malt Liquor (Rod Prather)
  Malt Liquor ("mike megown")
  re: haze, sorbate ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  dry hopping with US hallertauer? (ensmingr)
  Re: Maize malting (Jeff Renner)
  more gelatinization (Marc Sedam)
  Sorbate usage summary ("Paul Kensler")
  A post from a Bruce-come-lately ("Dave Edwards")
  Bitter recipes (Tidmarsh Major)
  Beer glasses and Rennerian posts . . . ("Brett A. Spivy")
  Brewing, drinking, and drunkedness ("Alan Meeker")
  Aussie Posts (being non beer related). ("Leland Heaton")
  Converting Decoction Recipies to Infustion Mashing ("Jay Wirsig")
  Can't we all just get along? ("John Todd Larson")
  RE: An interesting Question (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Intoxication ("Scott Church")
  re: homebrewing and drunkenness ("Brian Lundeen")
  Rainwater (Randy Ricchi)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:06:48 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Building Backyard Bathyspheres In Burradoo With respect to Phil's beatutifully alliterated subject line... >Let's say you have gassed your beer up at 30psi, rather overdone to be sure. >Sitting in our bathysphere, Jill struggles on the external billows until Wes >and I (sitting comfortably in our smoking jackets) are enjoying an >atmosphere at 30psi. >What has happened to our beer? It should still be sitting in your keg a 30 psi waiting for you to drink it. It should not be flat because your CO2 regulator & gague measure the pressure with respect to normal atmospheric pressure (which we'll assume to be 1 ATM = 15 psi). Now I don't know what your hypothetical bathyshpere is measuring: pressure with respect to 1 ATM or to vacuum? If it's calibrated to a vacuum, 30 psi on the bathy gague would really be 15 psi above atmospheric, thereby giving you a net of 15 psi on your beer. So your beer should be nicely carbonated when you go to dispense it. If it's calibrated with respect to normal atmospheric (1 ATM) , sorry, your beer will be at the same pressure as the bathy and you'll need gravity or a straw to help dispense your flat beer. >Conversely, Wes and I enter the chamber with our CO2 regulator carefully set >at 15psi. In more predictable fashion, Jill pulls the big lever which >immediately evacuates all atmosphere from the bathysphere >"what is now the reading on the CO2 regulator"? Well, you ask a loaded question... It should still read about 15 psi since the CO2 gague should be calibrated to normal atmospheric pressure, plus you gave a rigid wall container (also assuming an SS corny keg, here) which won't expand under the vacuum to equalize the prerssures. So your beer will still be 15 psi above atmospheric, which equals 30 psi above vacuum. Since the bathy is at vacuum (15 psi below atmospheric) that gives you a net delta of 30 psi. Alas, your last beer and it will be all head! Unless you vent a little CO2... Moral of the story: Don't drink beer in a bathysphere with Jill at the pressure controls - and most especially if Phil is wearing her new dress! Please note: This is just based on my rudimentary knowledge of how pressure gagues & spring/diaphragm regulators work. I worked for a welding supply company for a couple of years, but we were not in the routine of doing undersea welding or providing O2 gauges to airlines ;-) Someone's gonna hate paging down on these threads! Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:04:17 GMT From: happydog at nations.net Subject: Spanish Moss >Del Lansing suggests using more Spanish Moss in his brews to reduce the >haze. Really! Maybe I should just go out and pull some off the trees south >of here! {8^) > >Of course, Irish Moss, normally used in Britsh ales, isn't moss but >seaweed. What !?? I have two LARGE live oaks right in front of my shop covered with spanish Moss and at all of my brew party's under these oaks I have done everything I could to keep the spanish moss out of the wort . You mean to tell me that all this time I could have just let it blow into the wort and had much clearer beer because of it. DAMM..I leaving the lid off my boils from now on ;-) Humm, Spanish Moss IPA has a ring to it;-) Wil Kolb Happy Dog Brewing Supplies 401 W.Coleman Blvd Mt Pleasant SC 29464 843-971-0805 Fax 843-971-3084 1-800-528-9391 happydog at nations.net www.maltydog.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:03:50 -0800 From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com> Subject: Alpha and Beta Amylase and Reverse Mash? First let me say Big Up's to Dave Burley and John Palmer for trying to tackle the questions that I posed a few digests ago. I still think that the questions (or their spirit) has not yet been addressed. Let me try to rephrase them a little better. As Dave said "Brad, from your question, I assume you don't understand that by-in-large the beta breaks down the products of the alpha amylase's action on starch. These are sequential actions. Beta, therefore, produces glucose from the shorter chain carbohydrates produced by the alpha acting on the starch." Well Dave I did in fact know this and was the basis of my question. Since the optimal range for Beta is 131-150 and and Alpha is 154-162 and Beta works off of Alpha's products it seems that this reaction is not very efficient in a middle temp range, say 152. If you were mashing to get a more fermentable wort at say 149 or lower then you would have limited Alpha activity and since the products of an Alpha's reaction is the substrate for the Beta's reaction the it would be the limiting factor. So.... Wouldn't it make more sense if you where trying to make a more fermentable wort to first mash at a temp that would favor the activity of Alpha Amylase and then lower the temp to reach the level of fermentability with Beta Amylase? (but not to high a temp to denature the Beta) In affect you could do a 155-145 or a 155-145-160 to get maximum activity and better control. Who knows, it might even be faster to use the optimal ranges for each enzyme than to shoot for the middle and go slower. I hope this makes more sense now. Let me reiterate: How is it that a lower temp rest (145) can be too useful if the substrates for it are from a reaction of a higher temp? (Yes I know that there is still some activity at lower temps) Thanks once again, Brad Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:07:45 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re: spamish noss Daves points out I said, >>suggests using more Spanish Moss<< Did I type that? was probably listening to Zydeco or Beau Soleil at the time. Oops. >> that tannins form hazy complexes with metal ions like iron, etc. This may also be a factor in your discussion. Don't know if the heating would improve by precipitating these hazes,<< Would the precipitating tannins improve heating by causing more effective convection in the wort? Ahh, the world of typos ;-) Del Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:39:27 -0400 From: Debi Lake <debiL at sunnyorlando.com> Subject: The words, "Homebrew" and "Yobbo" Graham Sanders wrote: >>"I always have a quite shudder everytime I hear the term 'homebrew'. >>Even people who make wine dont say they home-wine. The term homebrew >>will always have that yobbo element attached to it." Graham provded me a valuable insight regarding the use of the term "homebrew" To the un-schooled, the word sounds terrible. The marketing department needs to work on it. Remember that old Saturday Night Live bit of that played off the Smuckers jelly commercials and went of to say "with a name like "Monkey Vomit", it has to be good?" No wonder the industry is in a downturn. Pat Babcock made an interesting point regarding the stereotype of beer drinkers. Personally, I have a high-brow, condescending, snobby, anti-"yobbo" (I don't know what it means - but I really like that word) approach to beer and I get annoyed at people's assumption that because I brew, I drink a lot. However, the stereotype of guzzling beer drinkers is here to stay due to a fundamental reason that is taught in economics 101 -- low barriers to entry. Beer is the cheap swill of the masses (and marketed as such) and I seriously doubt that anyone can change it. If wine was as cheap as Budweiser and marketed as such, it would have an image problem too. Don Lake To quote Homer...."To alcohol! The cause of - and solution to - all of life's problems!" (Simpson - not the classic Greek writer) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 00:56:02 EDT From: Breweler at aol.com Subject: Big-flavored mild Stephen Ross asked for a recipe for a flavorful mild. I designed the following recipe after reading Wheeler and Protz's book, Brew Your Own British Real Ale. I determined which ingredients (and amounts) were common to all recipes, and which were optional, and devised the following (which tastes pretty darn good IMHO): Mark's Mild (5 gallon all-grain) 5 lb. British pale ale malt 7 oz. crystal malt 3 oz. chocolate malt 2 oz. black malt 1 oz. roasted unmalted barley 3 oz Belgian special B malt 4 oz. wheat flour (torrified wheat would be better) 1 oz. Challenger hops (UK 8.2%) Boil 90 min. 1/4 oz. Fuggle hops (UK 5.1%) Boil 90 min. 3/4 oz. Fuggle hops (UK 5.1%) Boil 15 min. 1 t Irish moss Boil 15 min. Wyeast #1098 British Ale Mash in 3 gal. of 152 degree H2O for 90 min. Sparge with 4 gal. 170 degree H2O Boil for 90 min. O. G. 1.033 F. G. 1.005 This was my first attempt at a mild; my second all-grain beer. It is easy to drink, yet packed with flavor. The 1098 yeast lends a fruitiness (veddy, veddy British). A crisper version could be made using 1028 or 1056. Hope this helps. Enjoy. Mark Videan Breweler at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:57:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joe O'Meara" <drumthumper_2000 at yahoo.com> Subject: Uh, I got a problem... Here's a good question for the brewing collective: I need to drop a bug bomb in what is currently my fermentation room (although my roommate insists on calling it the "living" room for some odd reason). Currently, all that is fermenting (well actually, aging) is this year's 6 gallon batch of mead. I've got airlocks (dancing hats) installed, and am wondering if I'm going to cause any big problems with my mead? Private emails ok, but if you wish to make a fool of me (Yates, Pivo, et al), BY ALL MEANS DO! TIA, Joe O'Meara resident Mad Dwarf Mad Dwarf Brewery, Billings MT ICQ #60722006 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:02:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff at netcom.com> Subject: Quick-Drafting Bottles? Folks, For the first time in a long time I'm bottling instead of kegging, because I want to give a couple cases of homebrew to a friend who's going on a trip, to be given out as gifts. However, this is complicated by two little details. One, the trip is happening seven days from now (six by the time this gets posted and I receive replies :-). As I recall natrual carbonating in bottles takes about two weeks to mature. Two, the beer is currently in a ten gallon keg which my brother quick-drafted with CO2, and apparently he over-carbonated it. So I'm faced with the predicament of trying to uncarbonate it so I can transfer it to bottles and then try to recarbonate it. I guess I'm asking, is there any way to a) transfer the beer from keg to bottles without giving it a chance to foam up, and ideally preserve some of the carbonation, or b) decarbonate the beer quickly (other than by repeatedly venting CO2, shaking it up, venting more, waiting for the mix to stabilize, etc?) and c) speed the natural carbonation process? I know, I know, it's a messed up situation, but I thought I'd bounce it off the list and see if anybody knew of any quick & dirtty tricks to try. Steven J. Owens puff at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:52:01 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes Wotcher HBDrs As a long time HBD lurker I've taken the plunge and decided I can no longer sit on the sidelines. I'm very surprised how many of my fellow-countrymen from the arse-end of the world use this service... But unlike some of them I don't intend to waste bandwith with endless diatribe and useless platitudes! (I don't have the time anyway). Anyway back to the real reason for this post. I recently purchased from my brewing supplier a Wyeast XLarge Smack Pack (3522 Belgian Ardennes). I was wondering if anybody out there has used this yeast yet, as I intend to try it in a Trippel.... If so can I get some info. on its characteristics etc. and is it suitable for a Trippel. Any help is good help - thanks in advance. Warren L. White Melbourne, Australia No! nowhere near Sydney! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 20:22:24 +1000 From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Bathyspheres and wastefull ozzie posts In a single post Jeff Renner has unwittingly unified and solved the two most pressing issues facing the HBD today .... > As far as that goes, your body fluids, being at 15 > psi, would also boil at 0 psi ambient, and you would probably explode like > a hot dog in a microwave. > > the digest has almost never been at its 45K limit this summer, > so Aussie nonsense hasn't delayed any important botulism or dui or > aluminum posts. It will all have to end if/when traffic resumes You see Jim, the volume of posts from down under only ever expand to fill the available space - much like Phil & Wes at zero pressure in the Bathysphere. Someone has to keep you amused and informed during the off season. BTW, Phil, if you really are out of Beer, I would be happy to pop a few litres of my latest (the first out of my new 80 litre ball lock fermenter) for your 'evaluation'. David Lamotte Brewing without regard to HBD Bandwidth In Newcastle N.S.W. Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 07:08:00 -0300 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Malt Liquor I believe (not positive) that malt liquor is a derivation of one of the alternative names used by German non-beer makers. Since beer by Reinheitsgebot can only contain water, hops, malted barley and yeast, classifications are given for other classes of "beer". In Germany, Malt liquor is usually classified as beers using other grains (unmalted) and/or sugar adjunts with barley malt as a basis. These beers are typically quite high in alcohol content but the ingredients are what makes the rule. Weiss is another of these altenative names that is a result of the beer purity law of 1512. Since malted wheat is used, beer was not an acceptable name. In the US, malt liquor is used to define beer above a certain alcolol percentage. Typically this percentage is 8.2% or 9.2%. Likewise, some states used to require beverages containing between 6.2 and 9.2 to be labeled as "ales". I prefer the german classification myself. - -- Rod Prather, PooterDuude Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 08:12:10 EDT From: "mike megown" <megownm at hotmail.com> Subject: Malt Liquor From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Malt Liquor??? My neighbor and I was talking about "Malt Liquor" over the weekend. I beleive that it used to be a category in the old BJCP style guidelines; however, in the new one it looks like it has been removed. Does anyone know why AHA/BJCP removed it? We were talking about what sort of grain bill would compose this style i.e. schlitz malt liquor "Bull", or Old English 800, or any style like that. Ideas? Cheers! Mike Megown "Scott Church" <schurch at gte.net> of Tampa, FL asks about malt liquor: >At first guess, I would have thought that it was any fermented alcoholic >beverage that was produced (largely or partially) from a "malted grain". Brewers sometimes do use it to mean just that, but some state liquor laws use the term to refer to strong beers, typically over 6% abv or so. While some fine beers fall into this category, the typical mega-brewery's malt liquor will be a cheap, strong, high sugar adjunct/low malt, low hops beer sold in 40 oz. containers and marketed in what I consider to be a socially irresponsible manner, despite their "Enjoy our product responsibly" slogans. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:58:06 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re: haze, sorbate Steve said, >>So adding a little tannin to a protein sol'n may cause haze and adding a bit more may precipitate that same haze. << That was pretty much what I was alluding to in one of the earlier posts; that to inadvertently find that % that would bring out the haze but not flocculate was the 'fine line' I mentioned. I had meant to say Irish Moss, not Spanish Moss. - ------------------------ On the refermentation after the use of sorbate; it could be that the Sorbistat was out and out bad. If exposed to sunlight it breaks down rather quickly, on the order of 6 months. If the store keeps it on the shelf and not in the cooler this could be the problem. In addition if not used with metabisulphite the malic acid can go through a malo-lactic fermentation in the bottle; in the presence of sorbate a distinctively gross geranium smell/flavor results. If no such smell happened then the sorbate was probably bad. N.P. Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 09:19:34 -0500 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: dry hopping with US hallertauer? I have some U.S. hallertauer (it is labeled "U.S. Hallertau", but I think the correct terminology is "U.S. hallertauer", right?) and want to use it for dry hopping. What kind of aromatic character should I expect? Just about all the different hop varieties that I have smelled out of the bag smell pretty good to me. Of course, that doesn't mean that they will make my beer smell good when added as dry hops. For example, some people have claimed that Hallertau hallertauer gives beer a "soapy" aroma. Anyone have experience dry hopping with U.S. hallertauer? TIA for your feedback. Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:06:35 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Maize malting "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz> writes: >Just a short report on my maize malting trial. This is certainly of interest to me, even if only academic. Thanks for posting it. >2. It was a feed maize, almost certainly a hybrid crop. I don't know if this >would be a reason or not. I wanted to keep away from a commercial seed >source. I think hybrid maize is often sterile. Why not use seed maize, as long as it isn't treated with pink mercuric fungicide? Or find someone who is growing old fashioned open pollinated maize. >There was a huge amount of hot break. Like a big oil slick!! I think of hot break as normally referring to coagulated proteins. Was this like that, or was it actually oil? There certainly could have been a fair amount of corn (maize) oil. I think I'd remove it too. You didn't say what percentage of maize you used. I assume something like 25%? Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:03:45 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: more gelatinization Dave B. writes... "Remember that Bud does a cereal mash to gelatinize the adjuncts and like the Germans doing a decoction has starch available at a low ( below 149F) temperature ( their glucose hold) from the boiling of the malt. My point is, if the starch is available (gelatinized) it can be converted at a lower temperature than 149F. As this was one of my points, we agree. I agree starch gelatinization is not a hard fast number, but I recall barley starch is most often given as 149F. Now maybe this is not the starch in the malt, although I have always assumed so. Amylopectin and amylose undoubtedly have different gelatinization temperatures." Dave is pretty well spot on here but it requires a bit o' clarification. Gelatinization does not occur all at once, it's true. Starch being loosely crystalline in the granule it has a melting profile just like most crystalline structures. There is a large peak, the center of which is 149F. So there's melting before and melting after. Also, I've mentioned before here that during the swelling (not melting) of the starch granule that small chain amylose is "leached" out of the granule and available for enzymic attack. Amylose and amylopectin, without any third-order structure, will not have melting temperatures associated with them. They will simply be in solution. One point Dave hit on that needs to be clarified, and one that I cannot, is that there's a difference between "barley starch" and "malted barley starch". 149F might be correct for barley starch but is probably high for malted barley starch. Because the malting process helps make the starch granule more fragile I'm certain the melting point will be lower. Can any of the librarians find the number for malted barley? Cheers! marc - -- Marc Sedam Associate Director Office of Technology Development The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-4105 919.966.3929 (phone) 919.962.0646 (fax) http://www.research.unc.edu/otd Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:37:20 -0400 From: "Paul Kensler" <paul.kensler at attglobal.net> Subject: Sorbate usage summary For anyone else that is interested, here is the summary of advice I received on sorbate usage. Thanks to everyone who replied! 1. Make sure fermentation is stopped before sorbating. Once fermentation has stopped, sorbate can prevent new fermentation, but it can't stop fermentation. 2. Remove as much yeast as possible via natural settling and racking, or filtration. 3. Use 1/2 tsp per gallon. Don't boil the sorbate. Stir the sorbate into some sanitized water or a small portion of the beverage to dissolve it before adding it to the whole batch. 4. Use sorbate in conjunction with sulfites. As far as my particular beverages in question go, I have put the keg of cider into my beer fridge. The cold temperatures seem to have put a stop to the fermentation and I am able to dispense it just fine (using just its own pressure to push it out - I don't have it hooked up to any CO2). The mead? Well, I really wanted a still mead so I will let it ferment out (again), resweeten as needed, and resorbate properly. Thanks again, Paul Kensler Lansing, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:39:03 +0930 From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au> Subject: A post from a Bruce-come-lately | Get a life mate. Why is it so bad that a few blokes have a few shits and | giggles in amongst all of the other stuff? The HBD goes further than just | 'let's talk about homebrew' to more of a chat between people who have a | mutually strong interest in brewing. I personnally like reading the *crap* | that Phil, Graham and co. put up. This is probably because I am an Aussie | (and a bit of a dickhead to boot!) | | By the way, if you have a problem with non-beer related posts, why did you | ask a question relating to those matters? | | Cheers, | Dave. G'day, Just as a note, I realised that I am a gimp and included no subject or reference to what I was dribbling (read: whinging) about yesterday. It is probably obvious, but it was the post by another Dave, having a sook about blokes who talk about non-beer stuff. Also I know that I am probably regarded as a 'Bruce-come-lately' bloke, but as you may have guessed, I have strong opinions, and am not afraid to give them. I am not as elequant, and delicate with the responses I give (too much beer whilst at the computer is the usual culprit), but I try. With regard as to the drunkenness issue, it is quite different here in the great brown land as it is in North Americas. It is quite common for most people (the people that I know anyway) to have a beer or two daily, and public opinion is quite tolerant of such consumption. I am much like Graham, in that I have one several awards for the consumption of alcohol, and stand very proud in the fact that the current world record holder for the fastest drinking of a yard-glass of beer is held by non-other than our former Prime Minister, Bob Hawke. Yes excess is bad, and regular drunkenness is a problem for those who encounter it, I don't deny that, but why is getting drunk on the odd occasion so wrong? Maybe in the society that I live in, and have the beliefs of, that I just don't see it. Cheers, Bruce-come-lately. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:51:54 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: Bitter recipes >From _Zymurgy_, vol. 18 no. 2, 1995: Ordinary Bitter (5gal/19 L) 5 1/2 lb pale ale malt (Hugh Baird, Maris Otter, or DeWolf Cosyns) (2.5 kg) 1/2 lb 60L Maris Otter crystal malt (0.2 kg) 1/2 lb corn or cane sugar (0.2 kg) 1 oz DeWolf Cosyns blag malt (28 g) 1 oz Northern Brewer hops, 7% AA (28 g) 60 mins 1/2 East Kent Goldings hops, 5.2 % AA (14 g) 15 mins 1/2 oz Styrian Goldings hops, 5% AA (14 g) 5 mins Optional: dry-hop with 1/2 to 1 oz of East Kent Goldings or Styrian Goldings (14 to 28 g) Yeast Lab YLA01 liquid Australian ale culture or a well-attenuating strain with good fruity notes OG: About 1.036 IBUs: 33 to 34 Single infusion mash 90 mins at 150 to 151 F (66 C). Raise to 168 F (76 C) for mash-out. Sparge with 170 to 175 F (77 to 79 C) water. Boil 90 mins. Burtonize your water. Ferment at 65 to 68 F (18 to 20 C). Extract brewers can substituttte 3 to 3.5 lbs (1.4 to 1.6 kg) dry malt extract for the pale ale malt and steep the specialty grains. Flossmoor Best Bitter (5 gal/19 L) 7 1/4 lb pale ale malt (3.3 kg) 1/2 lb 60L crystal malt (0.2 kg) 1/4 lb flaked wheat (0.1 kg) 1 1/3 oz Northern Brewer hops, 7.1% AA (38 g) 60 miins 1/2 oz Styrian Goldings hop plug, 5% AA (14g) dry hopped in keg ale yeast (Wyeast 1968 or 1928, Brewer's Resource CL-130, CL-160, and Yeast Culture Kit Co. NCYC 1187 are good choices) Same brewing method as previous recipe. OG: 1.044 Bitter (5 gal/19 L) 5 1/2 lb pale malt 3.4 [3/4?] lb 72L cara-Munich malt (0.3 kg) 1 lb flaked maize (0.5 kg) 2 oz DeWolf Cosyns Special B malt (57 g) 2/3 oz Northern Brewer hops, 7% AA (19 g) [60 mins?] 1/3 oz Fuggles hops, 4% AA (9 g) 60 mins 1/2 oz East Kent Goldings hops, 5% AA (14 g) 10 mins 1/2 oz East Kent Goldings hops, 5% AA (14 g) 2 mins ale yeast (see Flossmoor Best Bitter examples) Mash at 152 F (67 C). Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:32:25 -0500 From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com> Subject: Beer glasses and Rennerian posts . . . Jeff wrote (in part): <snip> I make my own soap and really like it with my softened water, but I'm certainly glad for detergents. For beer glasses, I use hand dishwashing detergent and just rinse really well. Seems to work pretty well, but not great. I know brewers who use nothing but hot water, but that won't remove lipstick, and it just leaves me uncomfortable anyway. Jeff <snip> I too make a lot of our families soap (lucky me, I learned it from my Great Great Grandmother as a very small child and was made responsible for it throughout most of my early life). Since I understand little of the chemistry or the whys and how's of the process, I really appreciated Jeff's post. It has explained several mishaps through the years as my father moved us from town to town and "things didn't always work out at the new house". Apparent differences in water hardness and the use of "softened" water would explain most every mishap. There is still one that I don't understand in Merced, CA when I used the ash of a green Sweet Gum tree exclusively and ended up with a lye solution so caustic I could not cut it enough to make it usable, but that is entirely off topic! What is on topic is the cleaning of bar glasses. We in the hospitality industry (dive bars to the finest private clubs) have been using one tried and true method for over forty years to ensure a clean, sanitary glass that doesn't affect head retention ( positively or negatively). In triple sink cleaning arrangements, the first sink is for detergent (as opposed to soap) based cleaning, the second is a clean water rinse of at least 140 degrees F, and the third is for a sanitizer. While in kitchens, bleach or chlorine based sanitizer is commonly used at 50 to 100 ppm, in better bars, a special sanitizer is used that contains a sort of "anti-detergent". The most common and user friendly is Beer Clean TM brand. It comes in individual packets of ~25g which is the proper amount for a 1.5 gallon sink of water. I am not at the bar right now, but tomorrow I will have a packet on my desk if anyone wants more info on ingredients or manufacturer, just post me. Brett A. Spivy Stolen Cactus Brewery The Pinstripe Lounge Shreveport, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:18:57 -0400 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu> Subject: Brewing, drinking, and drunkedness In response to Steve's recent post Pat wrote: >You know: it never ceases to amaze me the direction some people will take >on a comment or a set thereof. Pat, if this is true after all this time running the HBD then you must have an infinite capacity for wonderment! >How many kids do you have, Steve? I hope to God they are not >treated to the sight of their Dad wandering about in a drunken stupor >every time you get the thirst for a beer. It's not a matter of hiding the >intoxicant. It's a matter of demonstrating that it can be enjoyed - >flavor, aroma, color and effects - without going over the deep end. It's a >demonstration that you don't have to turn into a drooling idiot simply >because you've enjoyed aome alcohol. Not the guise of sainthood, Steve - >it's the demonstration of RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONES' OWN BEHAVIOR. Something >we could use a whole lot more of these days... I don't think this hyperbole is particularly useful and will only serve to drive the thread further to extremes. I doubt that Steve is saying he traipses around full tilt drunk every time he drinks beer! Of course, I can't really speak for Steve, but as for myself I do take some issue with your statements about "not going over the deep end" - who is to define what the "deep end" is? Where does one draw the line? Personally, I wouldn't want my kids to see me doubled up over the toilet puking my guts out so, yes, I drink responsibly enough to avoid this situation (on the other hand, witnessing the possible negative consequences of too much drinking might actually be a lesson in itself!). Likewise, I wouldn't want to set an example of driving after becoming intoxicated but, I also won't deceive my kids and hide from them the fact that, on occasion, I find drinking past the point of a light buzz pleasurable. In my opinion (and it is just and only that) the most important thing when dealing with kids is honesty. If you try to hide something from a child you are doing them a disservice, besides, they can smell deception a mile away. I love beer. I love everything about beer - the aroma, the appearance, the flavor and, yes, the effect of the alcohol too. Some people have stated that if they could brew NA beer they would, but to me this would be unacceptable as it would negatively impact the flavor and remove the intoxicating effect that I enjoy. I believe my kids are able to contrast my passion for beer, the type of passion for all aspects of a fine beer that I imagine all homebrewers share, with the behavior of others who drink cheap tasteless mass-marketed beer out of wide-mouthed cans primarily for the effect of the alcohol. I think my kids are intelligent enough to make the distinction. >Steve, I do not brew NA beer, I do not "hide my hobby from >prohibitionists", and I do not brew behind closed doors - unless it is >convenient (neighbors visiting with beers can sometimes draw the brew day >out, or cause sparging accidents...). I simply DO NOT want the term "home >brewer" and "drunk" forever tied together. No matter how you care to >justify your version of the equation, there is a "does not equal" between >"drunk" and "home brewer". Any more than is should be there when "home >brewer" is replaced by "home wine maker". It is not about appeasing PC >people or prohibitionists. It's about respect and the manner in which the >most assinine of opinions some how manage to become law. I can't >understand why that's so hard to get through. As with children, I think the key to keeping "homebrewer does not equal drunk" lies in being honest and educating the public. By and large the more general equation "Beer drinker = drunk" is probably pretty well established in the public's eye. What they need to realize is that, unlike the drinkers of cheap and tasteless beer, getting drunk is not the primary goal of the homebrewer and, in fact, is often not a goal at all. _Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 08:51:19 PDT From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com> Subject: Aussie Posts (being non beer related). If we had two seperate hbd's. One for the aussies to have their "non-beer related posts" and one for the American's to have their "beer related posts", I would want to be an aussie. When I joined the hbd, I had many beer related questions. The longest it ever took me to get into hbd was 2 days. I thought it was an important question...My beer tasted like vodka. The next day, I was anxious to see my post so I could get responses but low and behold their were funny posts. And they made me relax a little bit. It was good. I don't want to have a stick up my ass and have it rammed in by a hammer every time I don't make a beer related post...personally...I think that the people who have fun at what they do are 1) fun people, and 2) good at what they do... Graham, Phil, Jill, Keith, Lyndon, etc...Can I be an Aussie? :).. P.S. There would still be non-beer related posts in the american hbd, they would all deal with bac though. Just food for thought...Not to rag on you, but I don't think your old. Just re-learn to have fun at what you do...You must have had fun before, or you wouldn't have brewed for so long. Leland (wannabe aussie) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:20:29 -0400 From: "Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at can.dupont.com> Subject: Converting Decoction Recipies to Infustion Mashing There has been a couple of great responses to some mashing questions recently. I have a similar question regarding the conversion of Decoction recipes to Infusion Mashing recipes. I have just built a RIMs with an inline heating element as well my tun is a converted keg so external heat addition is also an option, of course so is infusion of boiling water giving me three modes of heating for step mashing. My favorite recipe is for Weizen from Eric Warner's book involving decoction mashing but it is a lot of work, I would like to duplicate the end product with my RIMs. How should his recipe be converted? If stepping the mash through a temperature profile what is the best method for raising the temperature? Does the dilution effect of adding boiling water affect the end product negatively. The Rims heating rate is 1 deg C per 1.5 minutes. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:57:45 -0700 From: "John Todd Larson" <larson at amazon.com> Subject: Can't we all just get along? I agree with Pat's recent comments re/ the desire to not associate "homebrewing" with "drunk". "Drunk" is considered by most of the world to be a derogatory term. However, I also agree with some of the other posts that getting "drunk" is not the end of the world. Yes, I have kids. No, I do not get "drunk" in front of them. However, I do enjoy having more than few beers on the occasional Saturday night, when the opportunity is right (a designated driver, good friends, etc.). Yes, I enjoy the effects of alcohol. Yes, I am still a good father. Hopefully, we can all agree that being "a drunk" is a little different than occasionally drinking more than one probably should. J. Todd Larson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:43:07 -0500 From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: An interesting Question From: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at Gardnerweb.com> >....My temps approach 160 degrees (F) by the end of the 45 minutes. >I also am noticing that I am unable to get the mash temp up to the hi 160's >to low 170's when I am at the end of the mashing cycle. What is the best way >(short of being able to apply heat directly to the vessels) that I can do >this. Or, how are rest of you doing this?... It seems to take quite a lot of heating to move the grain temp up to 170's from mash temps. I use a HERMS system, and allow circulation and heating, takes about 15 minutes (Igloo Cooler), and I also noticed that the temp at the top where the liquor enters is at 170+, but it takes some time for the temperature at the bottom to reach 170F even during the circulation. The best thing I have done is to permanently install a dial thermometer near the bottom of the Igloo mash tun. I need to be patient, for I know the temp will get there after a time. Another strange observation, the temps during mashing 150+F, seem to hold well in the mash tun, but when mashing out and sparging, the 170+F will not hold without additional heating by sparging. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:33:24 -0700 From: "Scott Church" <schurch at gte.net> Subject: Intoxication I apologize to those who have heard enough on this subject.(I know it has been beat), but... I find it very hard to believe that there is a "Die Hard" beer brewing enthusiast out there, that has never been DRUNK! And if there is.....what the hell are you waiting for? Look: I don't drink every night, and when I do drink it's usually 1 or 2 beers....but.....there are those times (about once a year) when I "tie one on". There are many good things that come from the occasional state of "over indulgence": for one, you usually end up saying or doing something stupid, which in retrospect fosters caution and keeps one from repeating the act anytime soon.(we all need a little kick of humility from time to time)........Hell, let's face it, half of the population wouldn't even have been born if it weren't for inebriation.(as alcohol appears to be the "anti-birth control") ...Another bonus is that you won't forget those special times with your friends, as they will periodically bring up the incident(.....man, you remember that time.....) I would like to say that occasional state of OI is also a way to obtain a new perspective on various things, but the "revelations" are usually lost by the morning. There is, however, scientific proof that OI does actually boost energy/productivity level for about 1 week.(after the humility sets in the next day, one usually works real hard and does all the things that they have been neglecting) Maybe it's the secret of "youth"......because it usually make you feel like a kid again! (oooooooooo.....look what we're doing?) I'm not saying it's O.K. to get trashed and drive, nor am I saying that it's an excuse to beat your wife, but loosen up folks.......it's just life. I live a pretty "low key" life, I'm a responsible individual and a role-model for the children I teach, but once in a while I don't want to be! On those few occasions when I have been "sauced", it wasn't to hide from something or mask some deep emotional scar.......it was for a much simpler reason.....it's fun!!!! Your hang'n with you friends, your enjoying the mood, the beers go down REAL easy, you blab a lot of shit(which of course keeps your thirst up)...and the next thing you know, you've lost count....(whoooooo cares?!) It really isn't much different from racing dirt bikes or sky diving. It's a slightly reckless act. Rule #1 -- Live, Brew, and Drink responsibly Rule #2 -- Break rule #1 once in a while Just a regular guy! (most of the time) Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:49:56 -0500 From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: re: homebrewing and drunkenness Pat Babcock (or perhaps it's his evil twin brother, Skippy) continues his protestations with: No matter how you care to > justify your version of the equation, there is a "does not > equal" between > "drunk" and "home brewer". Pat/Skippy, you have fought the good fight and I commend you for it, but alas, the battle is lost. On Big Brother, a program watched by millions of people (yes, I watch it much the same way I gawk at horrific car crashes and country-western music videos), the house drunkards have been given the challenge to make drinkable beer in 7 days. Now, we all know what beer is like at that age. My feeling is they won't even bottle it. Can you imagine if a still fermenting bottle exploded and injured one of the contestants? They would get more money than the last person in the house. No, I figure in 7 days time, they'll just start dipping their glasses into the bucket and within a couple of days, it will be gone. You'll have a half dozen people sitting around pissed to the gills and farting (oh yea, there gonna learn about the effects of yeast on the human GI tract, all right), and that is the image Americanada will be left with of homebrewers. No point in fighting it. I'm so depressed I think I'll just take off from work early, get good and pissed at the bar, then steal a motorcycle and drive home drunk without a helmet. Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 14:05:35 -0400 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: Rainwater In Tuesday's HBD, Jeff Renner was talking about soaps, and the fact that rainwater was soft. This got me to thinking. Would it be a good idea to collect rainwater, or snow for that matter, and use it for making pilseners? Or would there be too big a risk of polutants in the rainwater? I remember back in the 1980's Mother Earth News did an interview with an American Indian medicine man named "Rolling Thunder", or some such thing. In the interview he stated his belief that rain that fell during a thunderstorm had "power", and so was a good thing to drink. I thought that was pretty cool, so I used to put all kinds of bowls outside to catch the "thunder water" and then I would drink it. It really had a strange taste for water, which I attributed to nitrogen. I don't really know if that was the reason for the taste, though. After a while, someone mentioned their may be a lot of pollutants in the rainwater, and I quit the practice. (Also, I done growed up some ;^) ) Anyway, are there any concerns out there in HBD land about using rainwater in these modern times? It would be easy to catch the runoff from a roof and direct it into a plastic barrel or garbage can using a rain gutter. Return to table of contents
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