---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Promash even finds its way to Oz! ("Warren White")
  pH Questions For The Scientifically Unimpaired ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Promash Echoes from the Southern Highlands (Wes Smith)
  Re: Promash ("Braam Greyling")
  Best Of Big Brew Comp Results (Ray Kruse)
  Etching of glass with bleach ("Adam Ralph")
  Invert sugar (Dave Burley)
  Graham and the galah with the unboiled wort. ("Dr. Pivo")
  questions ("sdugre")
  Re: Vernor's, MegaBrews (Wimpy48124)
  Re: Another Sooky, Sooky La La ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Chilling out Chill Haze ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
  re: Re: In support of intoxication ("Stephen Alexander")
  invert sugar recipe (Aleconner)
  Re: re: Re: In support of intoxication (Some Guy)
  Aussie talk (AlannnnT)
  Homebrewer = Drunk and other crimes of ignorance (Steve Lacey)
  Taps and stuff CHEAP ("John Stegenga")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:19:49 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Promash even finds its way to Oz!

I even paid the US $25 for Promash...

In Australian dollars that's about $40 or so!

But I reckon it's worth every cent, helps keep a consistency
in your brewing, removes a lot of guesswork and the after
sales service and on line help by Jeffrey Donovan is
second to none.

It accommodates all types of mashing schedules.
It's definitely money well-spent...

My only problem is when I see the U.S. ingredient
database I go a little green with envy!
Can you blokes really get all that stuff????

No downunder affiliations yada yada!

Warren L. White Melbourne, Australia
The second closest state to the South Pole!
Speaks volumes for Tasmania doesn't it???
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:51:33 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: pH Questions For The Scientifically Unimpaired

My good mate Wes suggested to me that a bloke with my scientific
inquisitiveness ought not be getting about the brew house without at least a
pH meter. So I bought one.

Thrilled with my new toy, I set about sticking the probe into almost
everything. You just can't be too sure what nasty pH's are lurking around
you!

My inquisitiveness may well have got me into trouble, but for the
neighbour's dog Butch, who backed himself against a wall and growled
menacingly as I advanced towards him with obvious intent.
"Bugger Butch" I thought! (perhaps that is what he suspected I had in mind)!
"Why should I try and solve the mystery of his haemorrhoids anyway"?!

These days I keep the pH meter locked away in the brew house so I can't be
tempted to succumb to stray ideas nor unnatural applications.

But I am a query, sorry, I meant to say I have a query. I have many times
read that sparging should not be continued once the pH is approaching 6.0 as
upwards of this there is a tendency to be leaching tannins into the kettle.
I concluded from this that something about the higher pH was the cause. I
measured my late sparge run off and sure enough the pH was around 5.9. Funny
that this should occur just as I have sparged precisely enough water for my
boil.
I previously found the same when measuring sparge specific gravity. It fell
down to around 1010 just as I sparged precisely enough water for my boil.
This figure is also often mentioned in books.
So I have no dispute with either of these matters.
Except that neither of them mean much.
If you are sparging with water of a pH of about 7.0, of course the run off
pH will rise towards this as sparging is completed. Naturally too will the
specific gravity fall.

I did a lot of mashing before I ever measured either of these parameters, my
required sparge water was worked out on the basis of a boil which would
result in a desired volume of wort (and still is), much as I expect was the
case in olden days. Seems to me, someone later took gravity and pH readings
and announced :
"Do not sparge beyond these parameters"!!!

Being a simpleton, with little occupying my mind beyond sex and grog, I may
well have the cart before the horse.
Perhaps wondering about this is equivalent to wondering why exactly enough
news occurs each day to fill a newspaper.

I must admit, I have given that quite some thought too.

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 16:55:00 +1000
From: Wes Smith <wessmith at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Promash Echoes from the Southern Highlands

In support of other recommendations for Promash; I have been using the 
software for about 8 months or so and am delighted with it. I have 
calibrated off my mash efficiencies and colour, can hit target gravities 
right on the button and am currently working on some fine tuning with 
hopping rates. Jeffery Donovan's support has been excellent too - he is not 
afraid to tell us when there is a bug. Not like some other LARGE companies 
that try to cover them up in "upgrades". Best $25 I have ever spent and one 
of the best brew "toys" I own.

Usual disclaimers and I hope to meet Jeffery at some point.

Wes Smith
Blokes Shed Brewery
Southern Highlands - where it is getting just a little too warm to brew 
lagers at ambient temps.



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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:11:32 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Re: Promash

Hi all,

Thanks very much for ALL the answers I got regarding Promash.
There were not a single negative comment.
Look like it is really a great program.

Regards

Braam Greyling
Snr. Design Engineer
Azoteq(Pty)Ltd

PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT DETAILS:
Tel +27 21 8711730  Fax +27 21 8729973
braam.greyling at azoteq.com


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Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 05:50:44 -0400
From: Ray Kruse <rkruse at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Best Of Big Brew Comp Results

Cross Street Irregulars of Baltimore, MD, held the Best Of Big Brew
Club-Only Competition yesterday.

The results of the 26 entries are:

1st Place   Mickey & Vi Walker / Jim Shulz
                 Prairie homebrewing Companions
                 39.6 pts average

2nd Place  Gary Shewchur
                 Fermented Order Of Renaissance Draughtsmen
                 38 pts average

3rd Place  Harold Gulbranson
                 Quality Ale And Fermentation Fraternity
                 36.6 pts average

Thanks for the entries, and congratulations to the winners.

Ray Kruse
Glen Burnie, MD



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Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 18:29:17 WST
From: "Adam Ralph" <bluehillsbrewing at hotmail.com>
Subject: Etching of glass with bleach

Greetings to the collective.  I have read some conflicting advice about 
using bleach on glassware, and wanted to seek the comments of those with 
this experience.  I am planning on soaking my empty and rinsed bottles in a 
bleach solution (1 tablespoon/gallon) for a few days to get rid of the muck 
(technical term - please don't be put off if you're not familiar with it).  
However, Miller states that bleach can etch glass and make it impossible to 
clean.  What's the deal, momily or not?  Does this shorten the life of the 
bottles?

Cheers,

Adam.
Blue Hills Brewing.
Perth, Western Australia
 -180, -180 Renerian (probably).
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 07:58:31 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Invert sugar

Brewsters:

Zemo asks about making invert sugar.  Don't bother. The yeast have
invertase and will do the job for you. In the early days of brewing,
homebrewers were encouraged to prepare invert sugar using citric acid and a
boil up of the sugar. All this did was make the beer more acid from the
added cirtric acid. Amazing how long it takes a myth to die down.
- ----------------------------------
Graham's Aussie work timetable. Tea at 2:30 til 3 whle reading the HBD and
then off at 4:00. It has been my experience that if you want to see the
dead come back to life, just be around an Aussie office building at 4:00PM!
 {8^)
- ----------------------------------- 

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 14:10:08 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Graham and the galah with the unboiled wort.

Graham informs us;

>  What I'm saying to all the
> newies out there is definitely yes, at a mash at 68c, for an hour and half,
> it willl not be free of bugs

Quite right.  I've seen two mashes go "sauer" while letting them sit for
more than a day at mash temps. Interestingly, in the "in'ustry", where
open coolers were employed, 70C is given as the cut-off point for
airborne infection, which ain't far off the mark, but I reckon the
hotter the better.

Molds on the other hand are nasty buggers, and once establiched not so
easy to rid yourself of... I think it's 'cuz they are "lyophilic" on
their little tootsies and don't wet well, which means you don't get the
good heat transfer of dipping them in the cannibal tub... good
mechanical (scrub your knuckles raw) cleaning seems to be the go there,
before your standard cleaning practices.

Then again maybe yer mate wants a thick brown head... save him from
going nitro.

And Davo, how in the name of sweet Gough Whitlam's bum did you miss
"calling for "Ralph" and "Huey"" or "tossing a pizza"?... or have those
expressions not wandered that far south yet? 

> Davo
> Brewin

I've seen another signature with "Dave" and "Brewin", and I'm beginning
to suspect that you're getting a bit TOO liberal on granting visas.... a
little order please, Graham. 

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:37:23 -0400
From: "sdugre" <sdugre at hge.net>
Subject: questions

I have a couple of questions:

1.  How long can I keep a solution of iodophor sanitizer?  Can i simply 
add a little iodophor to the solution everytime the color fades, or 
should I make up a fresh batch everytime?

2.  I just had my water checked.   Im told that the total hardness is 
5-10 ppm and the total alkalinity is 20-25 ppm.  What is the procedure 
for adjusting these levels using gypsum and chalk? 

Also, is the search link on www.hbd.org broken for anyone else except 
me? The link hasn't worked for me in over two weeks.

Thanks for your help,

Sean Dugre




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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:33:36 EDT
From: Wimpy48124 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Vernor's, MegaBrews

    In regards to the great burn from Vernor's, a neighbor across the street 
that was friends with my dad back in the 60's worked in the plant on Woodward 
in Detroit. He told my dad that the reason it had a different burn than the 
others [Canada Dry, Faygo , etc.] was that they used [I don't remember 
exactly] a pepperblend, sauce, powder? to give it it's distinctive flavor. As 
a stupid kid, as soon as I heard that I wouldn't drink it for nuthin'! Now 
that I'm older [a little wiser, maybe]? I realize what a good thing that was 
and is!

        Mo' Hotta, Mo' betta!!!

     My take on the reason mega beers came about is the fact that after you 
cauterize your taste buds with hot and spicy foods is that you need to quench 
the fire a bit and why waste a good craftbrew when you can't much taste it 
anyway? There is a reason for everything that happens in the universe so 
that's how you can explain the existence of BudMillerCoors et... 


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Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:41:39 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Re: Another Sooky, Sooky La La

Dave Edwards wrote of Another Sooky, Sooky La La:

>Joe Fleming had a bit of a brain fart, and thought that it would be a good
>idea to write this:
>|      Dear Janitor,
>|
>|         My Homebrew Digest subscription seems to have been interrupted
>|      first by some Australian culture chat room and now by a seeming
>|      hybrid between Miss Manners and Political Correctness Weekly.
>|         Please resume my subscription to the valuable Homebrew Digest.
>|
>|         Thanks,
>|
>|         Joe
>
>Now, I have quite a few yank mates (Russ, Kev, Marc, Pat, Rob, Tony, you
>guys know who you are) but I'm sick of Americans having a sook about how
the
>Aussies on this list are always having a yarn. It seems that anybody from
>accross the pond can do it as much as they please, but if all of a sudden
>some Aussies get into a bit of chinwaggin' and it's all sooky sooky la la.


I thought Joe's post was original & funny.  He also mentions Miss Manners
and Polit. Correctness, so it's not an all Aussie thing.  But you guys will
probably get it for a while because, at least to me, it seems like someone
just flipped a switch and here you were - chinwaggin' away about things we
Americans can't relate to.  Rowdy bunch of heathen...  ;-)

On the flip side, you guys must be confused as hell to when we start jawin'
about our off-topic stuff.  But I guess Aussies don't mind using the
page-down key as much as Americans do.  I try to keep in mind that this is
more of an International Digest now than it ever was.  I enjoy the
diversity, but off topic discussions suck for those who want to read about
beer.  They suck even worse when you can't relate to them - no matter where
they came from.

But I will always have the last laugh, because as I read all Aussie posts, I
give 'em a funny accent in my mind.  Sometimes you guys sound like Paul
Hogan, sometimes Mel Gibson and once in a while like that guy the Discovery
Channel who handles the crocs and snakes.  And I don't know why, but for
some reason Doc Pivo sounds like John Cleese in my mind (when he's being
proper or official).  It's probably because it sounds more educated but,
some of his posts actually deserve to sound like Dracula!  You've gotta love
the Doc!

Oh... almost forgot ... I like beer!


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:21:40 -0500
From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <blackwod at rice.edu>
Subject: Chilling out Chill Haze

Question to the group...

I was told that I can remove (or at least minimize) some of my chill 
haze by cold-conditioning the beer in question for a while.  Given 
that the beer is already bottled and carbonated, is that accurate?


Second question to the group...

I have an 8 month old barleywine that is resisting all attempts to 
bottle condition it.  Before I cave in and add a grain or two of 
champagne yeast to get the bubbles going, do you think that 
re-priming the bottles with a bit of fresh  white labs yeast in each 
might work?

TIA!
 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com/


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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 13:56:45 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Re: In support of intoxication

SomeGuy says ...

>I hope to God they are not
>treated to the sight of their Dad wandering about in a drunken stupor
>every time you get the thirst for a beer.
 ...
> it can be enjoyed -
>flavor, aroma, color and effects - without going over the deep end.
 ...
>... you don't have to turn into a drooling idiot
 ...
>it's the demonstration of RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONES' OWN
>BEHAVIOR. Something we could use a whole lot more of these days...

<<sarcasm>>  Yes Pat, it's *impossible* to enjoy an occasional
inebriation without being a stuporous, drooling, "over the deep end",
IRRESPONSIBLE fall-down drunk "every time you get the thirst for
beer".<<~sarcasm>>  WottaCrock.  You and prohibitionists fail to
see any distinctions except 'sober as a judge' and 'daily fall-down
irresponsible drunk'.  If you'd attend the Munchen O'fest you'd see
tens of thousands of counterexamples each evening.

I suggest that you can enjoy responsible, safe and sane levels of
intoxication.  I too enjoy the aroma, flavors and color of beer, but
I also enjoy the subtle buzz of one or two beers and once in a long
while I truly enjoy going a bit farther - to the point where I can laugh
with abandon at the comedy that is life.

>[...] . I simply DO NOT want the term "home
>brewer" and "drunk" forever tied together.

Some small and probably proportionate fraction of the HBers do
use alcohol irresponsibly, so the bigots will always have evidence
no matter how sober the rest are.  Avoiding the appearance of
possible irresponsibility is too high a standard for any free society
and I decline to join in that charade.

The false association between HBer and irresponsible drunk is
"their" error.  Reacting to this false belief is yours.  Like every
negative stereotype,  it cannot overcome by demonstrating
the obverse, but by challenging the false positive assertion.

[e.g. The 'dumb blond' stereotype cannot be overthrown either by
examples of brilliant blondes (who are then exceptions), or by hair
coloring.  Trying hard in school *because* you are blond is merely
to subjugate your life to the false stereotypes of bigots.]

>[..], there
>is a "does not equal" between "drunk" and "home brewer".

Another inequality applies too.  "Inebriation" does not equal
"daily,  irresponsible,  drooling drunk" as you suggested.

>It is not about appeasing PC people or prohibitionists.
 ...
>It's about respect and the manner in which the most assinine of
>opinions some how manage to become law.

Trying to live by your intolerant opponents definitions in order to
gain their respect  is a complete denial of self-respect.  Where
first is their respect for the rights of others to pursue happiness ?

 -S




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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:44:07 EDT
From: Aleconner at aol.com
Subject: invert sugar recipe

How to make invert sugar (excerpted from "Homebrewing for Dummies")

Ingredients:

* 8 lbs. white cane/beet sugar
* 2 pints water
* 1 tablespoon (= 3 tsp.) citric acid

Directions:

1). Mix all ingredients in a large pot and heat to boiling (the mixture will 
foam, then turn a clear, golden color).

2). Cool then dilute in water to 1 gallon

1 pint of this liquid invert sugar = 1 lb. of granular sugar.

Cheers!
Marty Nachel


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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:48:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: re: Re: In support of intoxication


Greetings, Beerlings! Here we go again...

Stephen Alexander lashes out with 

> <<sarcasm>>  Yes Pat, it's *impossible* to enjoy an occasional
> inebriation without being a stuporous, drooling, "over the deep end",
> IRRESPONSIBLE fall-down drunk "every time you get the thirst for
> beer".<<~sarcasm>>  WottaCrock.  

Yeah, I sorta deserved that, I guess. And it's <sarcasm>what
 at #$%ing school did YOU go to?</sarcasm>

> You and prohibitionists fail to
> see any distinctions except 'sober as a judge' and 'daily fall-down
> irresponsible drunk'.  If you'd attend the Munchen O'fest you'd see
> tens of thousands of counterexamples each evening.

Now you're being, for lack of a better term, a bit of an ass. For one, how
the hell do YOU know what distinctions I see. Did Kunze write a chapter on
discerning ones motives from a few selected emails? Those who know better
would hardly class me with prohibitionists. You have somehow drawn or have
been led to conclusions regarding my attitudes and motives that are
decidedly false. I'd be curious to know from whence you derive them, but
I'll be satisfied just by deeming them laughable.

> Some small and probably proportionate fraction of the HBers do
> use alcohol irresponsibly, so the bigots will always have evidence
> no matter how sober the rest are.  Avoiding the appearance of
> possible irresponsibility is too high a standard for any free society
> and I decline to join in that charade.

Charade? Steve, there's no "charade". There is a desire to educate the
general public that home brewers are not drunks and do not wish to be
classified as drunks. 

Most, anyway. Let's make an anology. Let's say that the general populace
held a stereotype that generally classified anyone that responded against
nontraditional thinking with the precise, generally accepted published
dogma as an ass. Does this make every one who does so an ass? Hardly.
Would those who aren't asses challenge the others to respond to such
ridiculous insinuations in such a way as to educate the general populace
as to how their behavior and the behavior of braying asses differ? I
think: yes. No one is saying that you should act any differently so as not
to appear similar to an ass - and I dare say that most home brewers would
have to act no differently than they already do to show that they are
responsible adults enjoying a hobby and that they are not drunks.

> The false association between HBer and irresponsible drunk is
> "their" error.  Reacting to this false belief is yours.  Like every
> negative stereotype,  it cannot overcome by demonstrating
> the obverse, but by challenging the false positive assertion.

No one suggested it be done by demonstrating the opposite - which is what
you intended by the term "obverse" - behavior, though showing
responsibility helps in educating the public, educating the public is
precisely what is suggested. In part by objecting to the equation when it
is uttered. Challenging the false assertion is precisely what started this
thread. By the way, in Livonia, Michigan each July the Michigan Brewers
Guild allows all the beer aficianados do precisely what you claim is
useless: They hold a HUGE beer festival at which all those in attendance
sample the brews of all the participating Michigan breweries. The first
year, there were copious quantities of cruisers poised to pounce near all
of the event's exits. Since they got "skunked" by not having a bunch of
drunks pulling out of the event to populate their jail cells, they were
all but conspicuously absent from the exits the following year. Think they
may have learned from the first go-round that beer
aficianado<>drunk? Hmmm. They expected drunk driving violations, and got
responsible behavior instead. Ah, well. One theory that doesn't pass the
test of reasonableness...

> [e.g. The 'dumb blond' stereotype cannot be overthrown either by
> examples of brilliant blondes (who are then exceptions), or by hair
> coloring.  Trying hard in school *because* you are blond is merely
> to subjugate your life to the false stereotypes of bigots.]

Call it what you want, mate. No one's asking you to act any differently
than you choose to. We just hope that your behavior doesn't serve to
perpetuate the stereotype. 

> Another inequality applies too.  "Inebriation" does not equal
> "daily,  irresponsible,  drooling drunk" as you suggested.

No, but "drunk" does - as, if you look back, I did suggest. Your equation
for inebriation is, apparently, your stereotype as I never said that. Is
Freud at work with you, Steve?

> Trying to live by your intolerant opponents definitions in order to
> gain their respect  is a complete denial of self-respect.  Where
> first is their respect for the rights of others to pursue happiness ?
> 
>  -S
 
 *CLICK* *CLICK* *CLICK*
 
My positions are twofold on this matter:
 
   1) Home brewer <> drunks
   2) Opinions often drive law
 
Steve apparently woke up in the middle of this discussion, impugned Pete
Garafolo for his position, and has somehow equated my assertion that home
brwer does not mean drunk with prohibition. Simply astounding! Steve, I'd
rather not deal with your particularly strange venom, but, unfortunately
or otherwise, your tack in this discussion is masking my purpose in
starting it.

To your point, Germany treats beer and inebriation quite differently than
the states. Such has been very DEEPLY ingrained in their culture from
times immemorial. In this regard, perhaps they are more advanced than we
in the US. But it hardly applies to a discussion regarding how the term
"drunk" is derogatory and should not automatically be applied to the term
"home brewer", now does it? That, by the way (and I repeat), is the basis
for this ENTIRE discussion. 

We're basically in agreement that you can still experience inebriation to
such a level that you can still behave somewhat rationally and reasonably.
Would you agree that a person doing so is not, by the colloquial
definition, A drunk? So what's your point there? And there are also those
who get totally blotto to the point that their friends have to act
responsibly for them. In this case, they've acted responsibly in "letting
go" under conditions where someone else can see to their and others'
wellbeing. And, if not a constant occurrence, they're not, by the
colloquial definition of the term "a drunk" - not my definition: the
"popular" definition as beaten into us by our media. I also venture that
all of us have been in both situations at one time or another. Probably in
other, to use Steve's term, "less PC" situations to boot...

Though I advocate - STRONGLY advocate that all home brewers and drinkers
of alcoholic beverages behave responsibly, I never once suggested that we
behave to some extreme behavioral model. I DID suggest that I do not
appreciate the equation of home brewer and drunk. But again, I am
repeating myself.
 
Anyway, there are my "intolerant" definitions, Steve. 
 
The colloquial definition of drunk carries body odor, rotting trench
coats, the constancy of the paper bag. It carries the unemployable or the
dangerously employed. It carries the "mean drunk" who loses control to the
point of violence under the influence. The "town drunk"; the butt of all
the old westerns. The "lovable drunk" who is little better than a smiling,
reeling simp. Many more. All perceived in a negative light, in some regard
or another. None of them fitting the term "home brewer." So what part of
my desire that the terms "home brewer" and "drunk" not be equated disturbs
you so much, Steve? What part of that desire do you disagree with?

To help allay your paranoia, Steve, I have no hidden agenda in social
engineering. I'm not an under-cover prohibitionist who took on the HBD to
slowly and deviously twist the opinions and behavior of home brewers into
some marching band of teetotalers. Go back and reread the thread and try
to find where you got off track. I'm sure its there. 

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:06:23 EDT
From: AlannnnT at aol.com
Subject: Aussie talk

Hey, I support some freedom from always talkin' about grain grinders and 
efficiencies, but does anyone have a translation for this next post?

> Now, I have quite a few yank mates (Russ, Kev, Marc, Pat, Rob, Tony, you
>  guys know who you are) but I'm sick of Americans having a sook about how 
the
>  Aussies on this list are always having a yarn. It seems that anybody from
>  accross the pond can do it as much as they please, but if all of a sudden
>  some Aussies get into a bit of chinwaggin' and it's all sooky sooky la la.
>  
>  
>  Just in passing, I'd like to let big Phil know that yes even I too cheered
>  loud and hard when the Wallabies got up. AUSSIE, AUSSIE, AUSSIE, OI, OI, 
OI!
>  
>  Cheers,
>  Dave.
>  


Sooky la la? 



Alan Talman
The other side of the date line.


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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:47:46 +1000 
From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: Homebrewer = Drunk and other crimes of ignorance

A little experience I had the other day might bring home Pat's point to some
of the aussies on the digest.

I was enjoying a pleasant Friday arvo social tipple before heading home from
work last week and was discussing the upcoming ESB (Sydney) competition. I
mentioned the coveted Keith Williams Memorial Trophy for Best Pilsener. The
ignoramous that I was talking to said "Gee, Keith Williams must have been a
bit of a piss pot*". He didn't say "Gee, Keith Williams must have brewed a
really mean pilsener".  Now, to those who knew Keith, and to whom this
trophy really means something, that kind of "harmless" gaff would surely be
quite offensive.

This kind of misconception about our hobby stems from the related
misconception, at least in this country, that home brewers do what they do
to make copious quantities of cheap booze to feed their pathetic dependency.
Not to make excellent beer. If you do care about your hobby (as opposed to
others opinions of you personally) then you have to acknowledge that
opinions like this sure as hell don't do it any good. I wouldn't get too
distraught over it, but if we can make our own small contributions to
correcting broader public perception of our hobby, then why not? I certainly
did to my colleague.

Just my two bobs worth.

Steve Lacey
Sydney
*NB piss pot in Oz slang = drunk


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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:29:45 -0400
From: "John Stegenga" <john at stegenga.net>
Subject: Taps and stuff CHEAP

Ok.  It's time to start kegging.  But I need to do this cheap.  Any Ideas?
So far I've calculated from the Rapids catalog that I need about 150 worth
of stuff - not including taps and shanks (regulator, fittings, gas line,
beer line, keg connectors, clamps, etc)

That will get my 4 kegs running (if I use T's and hose to make a
'manifold'!) using cobra taps...

I want to run beerline out into one of them oak barrel heads, or something
like that, so when I finish my basement I can put the taps / barrel head on
the wall (about 5 feet run from the door of the fridge to the tap head...)

Help!

John C. Stegenga, Jr., Woodstock, GA.

Visit my website: http://www.stegenga.net
Need to search the web? http://www.stegenga.net/searchpage.htm
Want your own STEGENGA.NET website? Ask Me How!



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