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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Ginger ale/beer -- what's the difference? (Chris Shenton)
  Why do *you* homebrew? (a.e.mossberg)
  Using Spent Grains (John DeCarlo)
  heat of dilution ? (S_KOZA)
  Re: Sealing Cornelius Kegs (Jeff Jennings)
  getting kegs to seal (Marty Albini)
  Index for Papazian's _The Complete Joy of Homebrewing_ (fawcett)
  Selzer; was Small scale mashing, dry hopping, etc. (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
  1% iodine (Pete Soper)
  Soda kegs (Dave Suurballe)
  Lion brewery; how to make a sweeter beer (boubez)
  Sweeter beer, take II (boubez)
  Electric Drill Pumps (Len Reed)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 10:47:21 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Ginger ale/beer -- what's the difference?

I like ginger ale OK, but I much prefer ginger beer. What's the difference?

I've made ginger beer, and it came out very nicely. Is there some
ingredient that makes the distinction between `beer' and `ale', and why are
they called beer and ale, anyway?
_______________________________________________________________________________
Internet:  chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.155)      NASA/GSFC: Code 735
UUCP:      ...!uunet!asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov!chris             Greenbelt, MD 20771
SPAN:      PITCH::CHRIS                                            301-286-6093

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 10:31:40 EST
From: aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: Why do *you* homebrew?



Survey Question: Why do you homebrew? Do you do it for the better
quality than commercial beer? For the cheaper prices? For a hobby
or because of membership in some group such as SCA? 

Send your comments to homebrew-survey at mthvax.cs.miami.edu,
and I'll tally them and post the results in two weeks.

homebrew-survey at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


aem

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Date: Thursday, 18 Jan 1990 11:00:34 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Using Spent Grains

Hello,

I know I read somewhere (this Digest, zymurgy, some place) about someone
making use of the spent grains left over from the brewing process
to make various food products.

Was it cookies, granola bars, or yet some third recipe?

Anyway, I can't find it in back issues of zymurgy or this Digest, so
I am actively soliciting help in finding good cooking recipes that
make use of the spent brewing grains.

Thanks.

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date:     Thu, 18 Jan 90 10:59 EST
From: <S_KOZA%UNHH.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:  heat of dilution ?

Hi All,
        The equation used to calculate heat of dilution:
        Tf=(T1V1+T2V2)/(V1+V2) doesn't take into account the increased
        heat capacity of your wort. Intuitively we know that the burn
        (scald) that we would receice from our wort will be more severe
        than that of pure boiling water (ergo, it holds more heat).
        Unfortunately there is no accurate way (that I know of) to
        predict the increased heat capacity( Cp ) of a solution. We
        can estimate the Cp of our solution by knowing the composition
        and molecular formulae of its components (whose individual heat
        capacities can be estimated using Kopp's Approximation"
        Cp <=> 3NR where:N is the # of atoms forming the compound and
        R is the gas constant) The bottom line is: the time and effort
        of trying to estimate how much water you'll need to cool your
        wort far outweighs one empirical experiment. That is, measure
        it and see.8-)

P.S. If anyone really wants the rest of the calculation (P-CHEM is not
     of interest to most sane readers of the net) e-mail me personally

                                        Stephan M. Koza
"What did one yeastie say to the other yeastie?"----"Hey Bud"

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 09:41:22 MST
From: caeco!jj at cs.utah.edu (Jeff Jennings)
Subject: Re: Sealing Cornelius Kegs

I too have had problems with getting a good seal with
Cornelius kegs, but not as bad as the poster yesterday.
Since it was recommended to replace the O ring on the
lid anyway, I decided to try a "Lid Sealing O Ring" from
William's Brewing (P.O. Box 2195, San Leandro, CA 94577,
415-895-2739).  This is admittedly way overpriced at $5.90.
I just tried it last night.  The keg sealed the first time
I put the lid on.  I had never had the lid seal the first 
try before.  So the O ring worked as advertised so I may
have to break down and order five more for the rest of my
kegs.

Other prople on this mailing list seem to expend great effort
to avoid dispensing the sediment in a keg.  I expect the first
pint or two after tapping the keg to be mostly sediment.  After
that you should have sediment free beer.
- ---------------
Jeffrey C. Jennings	Silicon Compiler Systems
uunet!iconsys!caeco!jj	7090 South Union Park Ave., Suite 200
caeco!jj at cs.utah.edu	Midvale, Utah 84047 USA
			(801)255-8880

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 8:49:28 PST
From: Marty Albini <martya at hpsdl39>
Subject: getting kegs to seal

> The talk recently about kegging encouraged me to ask this question about
> a kegging problem I'm having.  I recently started kegging after a present
> of a Cornelius system for Christmas.  The first time I tried it, the keg
> wouldn't seal.  I tried initial overpressure, drying the seal, wetting the
> seal with water or glycerine, but nothing worked.  I took the keg back to
> the dealer where my wife bought it, and spent about an hour trying various
> kegs.  Finally we came up with a combination of keg+lid which didn't leak.
> Even then, it leaked when the direction of the lid was reversed.
> 
> I then went down to the local Pepsi distributor and purchased two more kegs.
> Again, I had the problem of leaking.  Finally, I ended up bending the heck
> out of the bail which holds the lid on.  This seems to work in general.  That
> is when I submerge the kegs, I don't see a leak.  Still, the kegs leak down
> after a few hours.  What could be the problem?  

	Could be leaking thru the fittings or the valves in them. I'd
recommend a complete teardown; should take about ten minutes. Replace
anything that looks even remotely suspicious.

	The lid gasket (really an o-ring) leaking is a common problem.
They take a set if they're stored compressed. Try this: put one in a
bowl, add boiling water, and let set for a few minutes (don't boil the
o-ring!). While it's still warm, put the tank back together and
pressurize.

	Something else may be happening: the CO2 may be going into
solution with the beer in the tank. This will drop the pressure, but
not all the way to atmospheric. To test for this, pressurize a dry
tank and come back in a few (standard unit of time: two stouts, or a
six-pack of light stuff).

> For all the praise I've heard
> this system get from brewers, it just looks like a pain in the butt to me.
> (Unless, of course, it can be made to not leak.)

	I store my empty tanks dry with 5psi in them to keep the seals
working and to keep nasties out. They keep this way for months. All my
tanks were bought used.

> Any help would be greatly appreciated!

	You owe me a beer!
- --
________________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"Thank god for long-necked bottles, the angel's remedy."--Tom Petty
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya%hp-sdd at hp-sde.sde.hp.com (or  at nosc.mil,  at ucsd.edu)
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 12:18:31 EST
From: fawcett%iron at cs.umass.edu
Subject: Index for Papazian's _The Complete Joy of Homebrewing_


I recently got a copy of Papazian's _The Complete Joy of Homebrewing_, and
noticed that it has no index.  I remember a long time ago someone saying that
they had composed an index for it that exists on-line somewhere.  Could
someone tell me where to get it, or mail it to me?  

Thanks.
 -Tom Fawcett

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 11:11:37 MST
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Subject: Selzer; was Small scale mashing, dry hopping, etc.


> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 22:46:22 -0600
> From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
> 
>      My latest experiment was to *brew* seltzer (i.e. just water, maybe with
> a twist of lemon or lime, prime it, and add a small amount of yeast to 
> carbonate.).  It turned out suprizingly good.  I used 1/2 t. of corn sugar
> per bottle to prime.  I rehydrated some lager yeast and added 0.2ml of the
> solution per bottle.  Works great! I had lemon/lime fizzy water in a week and
> I *know* where the water comes from. :-)
> 
What a wonderful idea! I've made selzer myself, by force carbonating
in a Cornelius, but the concept of a naturally-fermented, flavored
selzer is very appealing!

- --Doug
================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-602             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 14:45:09 EST
From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: 1% iodine

In a description of a brewpub's practices, Ed Falk mentioned that
they use iodine for sanitizing and do not rinse it off their equipment
because "it evaporates".

     ************    DO NOT PLAY WITH IODINE    ****************

I believe a solution of plain, metallic iodine (like you would buy 
at a drug store) WILL NOT EVAPORATE.  Its solvent will evaporate,
but the iodine is left behind, which is the whole point in its 
common application. Since iodine is quite toxic, what I am 
strongly suggesting is that we all LEAVE IODINE ALONE. Perhaps
the quantity left on equipment surfaces in the setting described 
at the G-B brewpub is insignificant. Perhaps it isn't. Perhaps 
they are using a volatile iodine compound (idoform?). But 
for goodness sake folks, let's not experiment with this.

(Posted at Ed Falk's request)

- --Pete Soper

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 13:55:35 PST
From: hsfmsh!hsfdjs!suurb at sfsun.West.Sun.COM (Dave Suurballe)
Subject: Soda kegs

Florian says he is having problems keeping soda tanks pressurized.

I have a lot of experience with soda tanks, and I don't have this problem.
Many amateur brewers here in San Francisco use soda tanks, and I haven't
heard of this problem from them, either.

Are the tanks connected to something that might be leaking and leading you
to believe that the tanks themselves are leaking when they are not?

If the tanks are new, I'm at a loss to explain this.  I have used dozens
of new tanks and never had this problem.  I assume they are used tanks.

Have the five o-rings been replaced with new ones?  If not, you have no
idea how old, how worn, or how inflexible the rubber is.  I routinely 
replace the o-rings on every used tank I get.  (It's better for the
beer, too;  rubber holds the flavor of the previous contents.)

Not all lids fit all tanks, even if they look like they should.  If you
had to bend something, you clearly have the wrong lid/tank combination.
Maybe the seller jumbled up the tanks and the lids in the cleaning process.  

If the tanks are used, who cleaned them and how?  I've "overcleaned" two
tanks in my time, corroding the weld and creating tiny leaks.

Have the tanks been disassembled for cleaning and then reassembled loosely?
Specifically the pressure-relief valve in the lid and the two disconnect
stems on top?  It doesn't seem likely that the stems are too loose, because
on several occasions I have forgotten to tighten them on a tank I was
reassembling after cleaning, left them finger tight, and didn't notice until
I disassembled it after the next (successful) use.  Apparently they still
work only finger tight.  I don't rely on this, however, and I still use the
wrench, except when I forget.

Oh yeah, I also routinely replace the "poppets" in the disconnect stems on
used tanks.  There may be a tiny leak between the rubber in the poppet and
the steel in the stem.  (The poppet is the spring thing which seals the hole
in the disconnect stem.)

This kind of question sounds stupid, but it sometimes helps discover the
problem:  are you sure the tanks are leaking?  Maybe your pressure guage
is failing.  Or maybe your gas system isn't really filling the tanks.

Soda keg systems get a lot of praise because they deserve it.  Don't give
up on them just because your first attempt is not yet successful.

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 11:43:22 EST
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Lion brewery; how to make a sweeter beer



Hi there, I have two completely different questions:

1) There was an article in the digest a couple of weeks ago about
the Lion brewery, and Stegmaier brand (aside from the two articles
in yesterday's digest). Has anyone kept it? And if so, could you
please e-mail it to me?

2) How can I make my next batch a little bit sweeter? Would adding
unfermentable sugars do it? And if so, WHAT are unfermentable sugars
:-)? Am I off the mark?

Thanks again.

toufic



Toufic Boubez
boubez at caip.rutgers.edu			--There's NO OAT BRAN in Motor Oil!


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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 11:57:50 EST
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Sweeter beer, take II



Re: my previous question, I just read some answers to a similar
question posted by somebody else (Re: Kiwi Questions). I'd
still like to know how can I make a sweeter beer, considering
that I'm still at the malt extract stage, ie I use it straigt out of
the can... Thanks.

toufic


Toufic Boubez
boubez at caip.rutgers.edu			--There's NO OAT BRAN in Motor Oil!


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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 90 05:52:03 MST
From: stcvax!rlr at uunet.UU.NET (Roger Rose)


Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes::
> Subject: Wort chiller for hot days and finite water supply
> 
> This is a follow-up on my previous posting. It attempts to remedy the
> situation where the water from the tap is not cold enough to chill wort
> efficiently, or where you don't want to dump mass quantities of perfectly
> good water down your drain.

With all of this talk on wort chillers, don't forget the utmost in
simplicity.   For small (12 qt.) brewpots I just put the sucker
in a sink of cold water and cool it in about 5 minutes.

Yes, this is potentially a little hard on the pot, so I wouldn't
necessarily try it on something expensive.  But then again, it's not
like you're cooling boiling oil (or candy) and is it really any worse
than pouring boiling liquid into a cool stockpot?

 -roger

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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 90 9:42:37 EST
From: Len Reed <lbr%holos0 at gatech.edu>
Subject: Electric Drill Pumps

Several posters have suggested recirculating ice water through a wort
chiller using a pump driven by an electric drill.  I tried this some time
ago: a < $5 pump, a Sears 1/2" drill, and some hoses and tubing.

It took ten minutes to get down to the temperature I wanted.  By the end
of that time I was nearly deaf.  Typically you use a hand drill in short
bursts, so you're not aware of how loud it is.  Running continuously
for over a minute it is LOUD.  The second time I tried it I put in earplugs
and still found the drill anoyingly loud.

Before you buy hoses, fittings, and a pump, and rig the whole business up,
sit in a room with your drill for a few minutes.  Most unpleasant.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #341, 01/19/90
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