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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Endangered Hops, Old Porter (Christopher Farley)
  wood alcohol from stone fruit (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  re: wood alcohol ("Stephen Alexander")
  staling in ales, I give up ("Graham Sanders")
  more re yeast/oxidation/hsa ("Stephen Alexander")
  "Strange Brew" (Jacob Jacobsen)
  Wolverhampton pubs (andrew.ryan-smith)
  methanol/Lacose/Glycol ("A. J.")
  albany pubs ("Czerpak, Pete")
  RE: Duplicating Muntons Amber LME... (Steve)
  counter pressure bottling, digest support thanks, mashing hopping ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Lactic Tang and Whiskey Malt (Dan Listermann)
  Re: Old Porter (Jeff Renner)
  Acorn Ale ("Keith B. Rider")
  Water softener (Danny Breidenbach)
  Pubs in Cambridge, UK (Richard_R_Gontarek)
  free hop rhizomes ("Bret Morrow")
  longest time you can lager without harm? (Wimpy48124)
  Re: Post on HBD ("Leland Heaton")


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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:10:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Endangered Hops, Old Porter

"pksmith_morin" wrote:

> My ramblings are spurred by a certain sadness, as when I read of a species'
> impending extinction.  America now leads the wave in brewing, despite what our
> continental cousins commonly believe; I therefore believe it behooves us to
> support our flagging homebrew suppliers, and the wonderful variety of hops
> they carry, by buying varieties other than the "Super a-acid" varieties.

And if you think that homebrew suppliers register as even a tiny blip on
the hop growers' radar screens, I've got some luxurious beachfront
property to sell you... 

> From: Drew Beechum <Drew.Beechum at disney.com>
> Subject: Old Porter
> 
> Okay so a couple of here we're playing around with the idea of doing
> an older style porter based mostly on brown malt and possibly using a
> bit of brett to infect it. 
> 
> Has anyone ever tried to do this or have any thoughts on an
> experiment.
> 
> - -- Drew

Consult http://www.northernbrewer.com/compete/recipe00.html for one
award-winning recipe. It's the last recipe on the page, which took
best-of-show at our last homebrew competition. It doesn't have any brown
malt in it, of course, but it was not only the best (and only) Old Porter
I've ever tasted, but one of the best beers I've ever tasted period.

I would be interested in hearing people's experience with modern
brown/amber malt. I have not used them much, nor have I much liked the
effects when I have use them.

- ----
Christopher Farley
Northern Brewer / 1150 Grand Avenue / St. Paul, MN 55105
www.northernbrewer.com



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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:19:51 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: wood alcohol from stone fruit

Hi,

I posted this a few weeks ago, but I can't remember if it was "published".
So:
Doug Brown asked about wood in beer and the creation of wood alcohol.
Woodalcohol is methanol and very poisonous. It's never present in beer in
alarming amounts. Unless you add (large amounts of) stone fruit (drupe),
(peach, apricot, plum, cherry, nectarine) during fermentation.

Greetings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/




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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 03:47:25 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: wood alcohol

Bob Scheck asks ...

>Now 
>considering that the mash is fermented grain, I would have to conclude
>that there is _some_  portion of methanol in our beers too.

You are right, but not much methanol appears in beer.

Methanol arises in fermentation, not from yeast metabolism but from
methyl residues of pectins which are present in only low levels in beer
much higher levels appear in fruit wines.

Wines run from 40-200ppm of methanol typically.  Brandies from 
pomace (like grappas) may run 1-2% (10000-20000ppm) methanol !!!
while better brandies only 700-1200ppm.  Grain based whisky may
run 200-400ppm and not much difference based in the still type.  I don't
have an authoritative figure for beer, but it is stated as being much less
than wine.

How much methanol ??  Assuming methanol&ethanol are retained at
comparable rates and you had a 5%EtOH, 100ppm MeOH  beer, you'd
be at 100X the legal (0.1%) ethanol blood level before you'd require active
medical treatment for methanol (at 0.02%)..  Beer ethanol will kill you
before methanol need be considered.

I've also read the apple juice methanol levels are higher than beer !!

What are the consequences of lower methanol levels ?  I dunno ?
Is there a doctor in the house ?

 -S
 .




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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:51:59 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: staling in ales, I give up

G'day All

Well, you would think a certain chap is giving me the perfect excuss to drop
in you lot again.  If I didn't know better I would think I'm being lead
scrub-bashing with this, or being set up like a roo in the spotlight

>>>Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:25:51 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Open Fermentation/Censorship /HSA is dead (again) ?

One other form of staling which is talked about a lot in the
literature is much more common than cardboard, but very
little discussed on HBD is that ales tend to become
over-sweet and with a molasses-like note as an early form
of staling. This happens a lot earlier than 4 months - see
diagram in M&BS pp872-873.<<<<

Truth is Steve and I have had discussions on this very topic. It must be
appartent he wants me to share.  So it goes - I keg all my beers and will
produce styles wild and varied as the many crazy things I get up to.  Now
one thing i don't do often is bottle up (thats beer, not my mouth). So when
ever I have to supply samples to brew-buddies, well thats easy, I pour
carefully from my bar tap to the bottle and cap quickly (I'm sure you know
the technique).

Now this works fine, but every now and then and i mean rarely, I would
produce a beer with a distinct honey flavour and aroma.  It wasn't upsetting
(in fact some guys thought it was great), but I found it bloody annoying.
True it was great bluffing my way thru a meeting saying "yes its unusual,
but great" which quickly followed up "no , its a trade secret how i get that
flavour, and I'm not telling", but i had to know what caused it. I went thru
all manor of causes, but like SWMBO in a dress shop, nothing seemed to fit
right, be it infection, oxidisation etc. One of the problems was it didn't
taste like that out of the tap but there it was afterwards. Especially if
the bottles aged a bit.

Then (and this is painful to say because I didn't think of it), Steve hit
upon this idea of staling of beers, ales in particular as a cause. Now to
all you who keep what seems useless records, they do come in handy at times.
So with this in mind a thougher time consuming check of records was in
order, going back years.  Well bugger me if this honey flavour only occurred
in Pale Ales / ESB's, and only when i bottled them, not out of the keg. Not
in lagers, and not in any light coloured ales.  Also not in porters or
stouts.

So in support of Steve's statement of the staling of ales, I can only
agree.  I believe I have accelerated the staling when I bottle out of the
bar tap, possibly by the introduction of a small amount of O2. Then with a
bit of time - honey. What are the other conditions that help.

Well I wont STEAL YOUR THUNDER - STEVE MATE.  You got it right, you let the
mob know.(its your right)

Shout

Graham Sanders

Oh

I utterly give up.  I'm going to have one regular fit (and you'll hear it)
if any bastard puts a post on how to remove chloramines out of water. I have
posted three times about these so called nasties, as well as other people,
but
the silence is deafening.  WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I think someone needs
to put up or shut-up. I dont have Chloramines in my water, so can some
bugger who is a mash brewer 'ave a go with their water.  Stand the water for
a few days, and then brew a beer.  Tell me if these so called nasties (if
there are any left) have an affect or not. I must admit i dont want to do
it, my water is only chlorinated and is perfect, but for curiosity
sake????????????








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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:42:44 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: more re yeast/oxidation/hsa

Paul Campbell notes ...

>Assuming Steve doesn't force carbonate his bottle conditioned
>beer (doh) then surely the evidence of these would suggest that
>Richard is correct in his original statement. Bottle/Keg
>fermentation of primings will consume at least some of the
>(small quantity of) oxygen picked up during packaging.

I don't force carb bottles, but I read Richard as saying

R> Of course any oxygen pickup on packaging will prematurely
R> age the beer, but for us homebrewers, where yeast
R> is still present in the beer, the oxygen is taken up very quickly.

My view is that typical HB packaging is either 1/force kegging,
2/ counterflow filling from a force carbonated keg or 3/ bottle
conditioning.   All 3 have yeast present, but only the primed
bottles (bottle conditioned) beers have significant yeast
metabolic activity in the package.  For kegs and CFbottles
there is yeast but they are dormant. bottle conditioned yeast
may well use all the O2, tho' it's not certain.  Less likely
for the keg & CF bottle w/ dormant yeast.

>prime a keg and
>compare the stability of *this* to the same beer which
>has been bottle conditioned in parallel
I agree - interesting experiment.

>Note that my speculation would also lead us to believe that
>it takes very little post-fermentation oxygen to impact
>un-primed, force-carbonated beer within *several* months
>(how long does it take to be noticeable Steve?).

Almost as soon as the bottle conditioned beer is
ready - in 6-8 weeks - there are differences which
usually grow.


=========

Richard  S says ...

>really doesn't matter to me as what a Siebel instructor tells me will carry
>far more weight with me than what you can cite in books since the published
>data may well be a little dated.

The recent JIB paper which determined the rate of oxidation
of FAs to trans-2-nonenal precusors produced in a 65C mash over
an hour  was in the May/June 2000 issue I think.  That's not
current enough for Richard.  Or this nice paper from the Q1 1999 ASBC
http://www.scisoc.org/asbc/journal/pdfs/1999/0204-05R.pdf
which proves packaging O2 is not responsible for trans-2-nonenal and
points to the mash.  It also indicates hot break carryover may increase
T2N potential and sulfites in the mash decrease it !  Several good
papers in JIB late 1999 too.

What a good instructor should be able to give is access to his extensive
experience and reading - not the definitive answers to as yet unanswered
questions.

>Not that I mind the references[...] but I would view such references
>with an expectation that they can be updated.

What does this mean ?  Journals are inferior because there will be
new findings  while your instruction at Siebel came down from
the heavens on stone tablets ?

Siebels is a great place - I'd love to have the time to go for a multi-week
session - but you won't find me checking my mind at the door.  You're
only educated once you've challenged what you are taught.  Get a
library card Richard - It'll rock your world.

>I was simply passing on current information from Siebel
>instructors for the benefit of the readers here.

I appreciate that you were passing on what you were told - but
if it was *just* that then you wouldn't be defensive in your response.
That you believe unquestioningly in what you were told is clear an
 that is called superstition - so happy Halloween.

 -S





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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 04:07:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jacob Jacobsen <beermakerdk at yahoo.com>
Subject: "Strange Brew"

Clapton would love this...

I've tried to sort this out on my own, but have come
up empty.  I need a bit of advice/information:

According to my brew log on 14 May 2000, I opened and
tested a batch (partial mash) which I described as
"medicinal".  Having nothing to compare to at the
time, this may or may not be what brewers commonly
refer to as medicinal.  There was beer in there
somewhere, but it was basically undrinkable with this
strong taste.  I set the batch aside until I needed
the bottles.

Fast forward to several weeks ago.  It's now late
September. I had been unable to get any brewing done
and was running out of beer.  I decided to try one of
these to see it it was as bad as I remembered.  Wow! 
The "medicinal" taste is gone and the beer is very
drinkable.  Beer isn't supposed to improve with age,
is it?  I'm pretty sure this medicinal taste was due
to an infection.  What happened to it? (Did the yeast
convert it to alcohol?).  I had yet another batch that
I had been planning to pour out and it too is now
drinkable. This leads me to think that my medicinal
taste is some artifact of "green" beer, but that was
months ago... not weeks.

I'm pretty new at this (this was my seventh batch). 
While I am serious about sanitation, I'm not confident
enough to think that I couldn't have missed anything.
What sort of "fault" could this be, that goes away
with time in bottle like this?  I very nearly poured
this batch out back in May.  Now I'm glad I didn't.

Can anyone comment?


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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:50:21 +0100
From: andrew.ryan-smith at powerconv.alstom.com
Subject: Wolverhampton pubs



" .  .. . I will be in England  .  .  . good pubs perhaps near Wolverhampton . .
 . "

A bit out of the way for me, so no pub suggestions, but Holdens is said to be a
good beer worth trying, and try to find some of the Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild
 - don't drive after this one, though!

Cheers

Rhyno




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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:47:39 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: methanol/Lacose/Glycol

Bob Sheck asked about methanol. Yeast processing sugar don't produce
methanol. Nevertheless, some does appear in the beer we make and in the
distillers mash - I'll take a stab and say its at parts per billion
level i.e. not enough to hurt you. Now if this parts per billion beer or
mash is distilled the heads may contain methanol concentrated a thousand
times over their level in the beer i.e. parts per million. This I would
worry about.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Richard Dulany asks about a substitute for lactose. First off, I, and I
know others here join me in this opinion, have always thought that the
result alluded to was part of the fun of drinking the beer - annoy Mama,
puzzle the dog, etc. Nonetheless, dextine powder might be a suitable
substitute. It isn't fermentable and contributes mouthfeel which is what
the lactose is really for as it has so little sweetness. I've never
tried this. Ninkasi knows what you might create if you were to do it. It
just seems to be a reasonable thing to suggest.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

WRT Richard Scholz's comments on glycol/alcohol - for the applications
we are talking about here freezing of the solution is not an issue.
Water circulating between an ice-bath and an immersion or counterflow
chiller is never going to freeze. The one situation where you might have
a problem with this is with an oversized mechanical chiller cooling a
fermenter which doesn't present much of a heat load when the chiller is
set to produce coolant at less than 32F.  Before the water side freezes
the refrigerant side will probably shut down from under pressure.
Anyway, the point is that the glycol isn't really there to prevent
freezeup. It's there to prevent corrosion in closed systems. Systems
which never get anywhere near freezing temperatures use it for this
reason.

Now if you are going to adopt the corny-keg full of water in the freezer
approach you had better either use glycol or be attentive to the
temperature of the water in the keg. Water left in the freezer long
enough will - of course, freeze but bear in mind that it takes lots
longer to get the heat of fusion (the heat required to form ice - 80 cal
per gram?) out of the water than it does to get enough heat out to cool
it to freezing temperature (1 cal/gram/degree C).



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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:53:15 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: albany pubs

Bob Hall asks about Albany brewpubs for hockey weekend during the
winter/spring.  Here are my thoughts.  And I do have to say "Lets go Tech"
(sorry, I'm a Clarkson alum) for the hockey season. 

Number one prime spot is:
CH Evans PumpStation where the alluring George Depiro brews - phenomenal
brews, great food, nice low key relaxing atmosphere with a cool fireplace to
sip barleywine next to.  about 5 minute walk from pepsi area. I am probably
here once a month or so for dinner and brews to see what new taps are on.
They just won a GABF gold too. I think George may have stashed away a few
kegs of their barleywine from last winter to try this winter and spring.
beg him for a taste. typical taps are a koelsch, something belgian,
something dark, brown ale, and usually a hoppy american ale or steam beer.
also cask beer on friday and saturday - make sure to get the cask if its
available.

Another stop only 2 minutes from the arena is the Big House Brewery - much
louder than CHEvans but the beers and food are not as good by far.  I would
go right by this place and head to Depiros Pumpstation.  But anyways. They
do have a pool table or 2 upstairs.  Lots of stinky smoke too. I'm obviously
not a big fan.

Other places within 15 minute drive are:
Troy Pub and Brewery on the river in Troy - okay beers, okay food, similar
to Big House in quality but usually less loud.  big selection of beers but
nothing too great.
Malt River brewery in latham circle mall - good beers, decent food, usually
band playing on wkend.

Drive another 30 minutes and you hit Davidson Brothers brewery in Glens
Falls - good beers, okay food, only been here for lunch and dinner but never
late at night

Or drive an hour down to Cooperstown and hit Ommegang Brewery for a tour
some afternoon and drink yummy belgians - thats all they make and they are
darn good

Thats about it.  I guess you could always swing by my house in Albany to
sample off three taps - let me know ahead of time and I'll let you know
whats on tap.

Lets go Tech!

Pete czerpak
albany, NY 


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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:00:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve <brewguy99 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Duplicating Muntons Amber LME...

drsmith asked about converting a barleywine recipe to
all-grain, and getting that 'raisiny' character.

I also brewed a barleywine last October (10 gallons,
OG 1.118, split the batch with another brewer).
Although it is still in secondary, I recently took a
16 oz sample, force carbonated it, and took it to the
last club meeting. It had the most wonderful raisiny
character to it that you'd swear it had biscuit or
Special B malt in it, but the malt bill was 55 lbs
Munton's Marris Otter and 5 lbs English Crystal 60L.

Yes, it was a bear to mash, and brewday turned into 3
days, but that's another story.

I used Kent Goldings hops exclusively, and Wyeast 1728
Scottish Ale yeast (known for high alcohol tolerance).
I'm getting ready to do another batch in the next
month or so and I'll use the same recipe, but will
only do a 5 gallon batch.

One thing I had to do to get the high OG was to
collect about 17 gallons of wort and boil it down to
11. Unless you use a lot more grain, and just collect
the first runnings, it is very difficult to get this
high of an OG without doing this.

Hope this helps,
Steve
East Tennessee
State of Franklin Homebrewers
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew

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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:09:06 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: counter pressure bottling, digest support thanks, mashing hopping

Dryw Blanchard asks about counterpressure bottling.  I have been very happy
with my CounterPhil.  You may have to buy an extra fitting for your keg and
some more hose clamps though.  i think I paid just under $50 for mine.  I
bought it specifically for competition use although I do use it to bottle
some bigger beers for maturing and sending some off to friends as gifts etc.
It probably takes me about an hour to bottle a case of beers from mixed kegs
from start to finish.  Its not tough to use and seems to keep foaming pretty
low as long as you fill fairly slowly.  I also put my bottles in the freezer
overnight to helkp with the fomaing also and pull them out 2 at a time as I
fill.  It has eliminated any oxidation problems that comp. people seemed to
complain about before.

also, BIG THANKS to chris and Northern Brewer for supporting the HBDigest
when it really needed it.  everyone should check them out when they are
considering buying stuff or atleast buying mailorder.  I do like the
Beestons that they might supply even though Beestons is apparently done.  I
may have to buy a few sacks then.

About mash hopping, I just tried it a few weeks ago for a Sierra nevada
clone very similar to the Big Brew recipe.  I mash hopped with 1 oz cascade
pellets in the tun for 90 minutes. we'll see how I like it.  I
decreasedflavor and aroma hops by half and put this amount in the mash with
the other half in the boil as normal.  not data yet though.  In terms of
pellets vs. whole, I would assume that perhaps the fact that pellets work
better is a mass transfer issue in terms of liquor accessibility to hop
oils.  perhaps someone should try dicing/shredding  their whole hops up with
a knife(kinda like dicing lettuce for tacos) so that more surface area is
available for hop oil transfer to mash liquor.  just a thought.  I tend to
use pellets 90% of the time for my batches so I'll continue with my normal
use of pellets.  i do plan on mash hopping an IPA or brown ale later this
season though to try it again for effect.  perhaps I'll have the guts to do
no aroma and no flavor and only mash hop.  our albany water is pretty soft
and mineral free although I do add gypsum to the boil.

sorry about having 2 posts today.  haven't posted in a few weeks before
yesterday.

pete czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:28:49 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Lactic Tang and Whiskey Malt

Glen Pannicke (Glen_Pannicke at merck.com) asks about achieving the lactic
tang in Guinness.  I have had great success using a quarter pound of
Weyermann Acidulated Malt in a five gallon batch.  Weissheimmer Acidulated
malt is totally different.  A taste of a single corn of Weyermann will tell
you how this works.  We have it is stock for $1.40 per pound.

Arnaud Viez ( aviez at teaser.fr) asks about "Adelshoffen Biere Au Malt A
Whisky."  Wheeler and Protz ( gotta love their books!) have a recipe that
calls for 81% Peated whisky malt and the remainder flaked maize.  When we
first recieved Baird's Peated Malt we decided to try a generic brew using
100%, the idea being that we would blend it with unpeated malts to
determine the level that would be tolerable.  As it turned out 100% was
tolerable in its own right, but we found that we did not crave it.  

I have not yet made Protz and Wheeler's recipe, but I am interested.  Like
acidulated malt, we have Baird's Peated in stock at $1.40 per pound.

Check out our new E-tail site at listermann.com

Dan Listermann


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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:33:17 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Porter

Drew Beechum <Drew.Beechum at disney.com>  wrote:

>Okay so a couple of here we're playing around with the idea of doing
>an older style porter based mostly on brown malt and possibly using a
>bit of brett to infect it.
>
>Has anyone ever tried to do this or have any thoughts on an
>experiment.

I have some thoughts.  It turns out that modern brown malts, at least 
the one from Thomas Fawcett and Sons, have no diastatic power. 
Apparently the historic ones had enough to more or less inefficiently 
convert themselves.  So you'll need some pale malt.  6-row is not 
authentic but it would have the highest diastase other than 
distiller's malt, which is over 300 deg. Lintner!  (US distiller's 
malt, not smoked whisky malt).  I speak from second hand experience 
here as I advised one HBDer (Darryl Leavitt?) to try 100% brown malt 
and it didn't work.  That's when I contacted Fawcetts.

I made a really nice low gravity dry Irish stout with 13% brown malt, 
2% chocolate and 6% English roasted barley with 20% flaked barley, 
and the brown seemed to make nice contribution.  I've heard reports 
from other brewers that much more than 50% makes a pretty harsh brew, 
but I don't know from experience.

Brett would be authentic and so would some lacto to get that "hard" 
flavor of aged porter.  I'd go for a mild lacto bug such as the 
Ypsilanti isolate that YeastLab sells.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:37:32 -0700
From: "Keith B. Rider" <kbrider at uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Acorn Ale

Pat Lohmann asked about brewing with acorns and the high tannin levels in
them.  This sounds like a great experiment to me, definitely give it a try
and report back to us.  The native Americans dealt with the tannin problem
by blanching and soaking the acorns in several changes of water.  I have
never tried it myself, but here is one recipe that seems to indicate that
pouring enough cold water over the crushed acorns will leach out the
tannins: http://www.nativetech.org/food/acorn.html.  I have read that some
individual trees have a genetic defect that makes them produce sweet acorns
without tannins.  Maybe you should start by sampling a few acorns from each
tree to pick the sweetest.





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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:54:59 -0400
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu>
Subject: Water softener

So now for the first time in my life I live in a house with a water
softener.  I tried to search the HBD archives to see if I could find
some useful do's and don'ts about brewing with softened water, but I
guess my searching abilities are pretty bad.  I could find either
nothing or half a bazillion hits that I don't have time to plow through.

So I'm asking for one of two things:
1. Any tips, tricks, advice about brewing and water softeners (other
than relax and make some beer with the water from the tap and see what
happens)

or

2. Some tips about searching the archives and finding useful
information.

Thanks a bunch,
- --Danny
getting fired up to brew again in West Lafayette.  Go Boilers!



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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:02:03 -0400
From: Richard_R_Gontarek at sbphrd.com
Subject: Pubs in Cambridge, UK

Hello All,

I just found out that I will be traveling to Cambridge, UK next week for a
meeting. I've done a few searches on the Net for good pubs, and I have the
CAMRA good beer guide, but I was hoping to get some first-hand advice from
the collective on where to go for some fine ale.

Private email is fine...thanks in advance,

Rick Gontarek

Richard_R_Gontarek at sbphrd.com




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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:11:52 GMT
From: "Bret Morrow" <bretmorrow at hotmail.com>
Subject: free hop rhizomes

Greetings,

I am pulling up (or at least reducing the size of) my Cascade hops.  It is 
well established and covers its supports by June and is all over everything 
around it by July.  Basically, I'm sick of pulling it off my roses.  So, if 
anyone in the New Haven, CT area (Jim, Ian, anyone else?) is interested in 
getting some cascade hops rhizome drop me an email at bret.morrow at 
prodigy.net

Cheers,

Bret Morrow
Hamden, CT
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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:27:33 EDT
From: Wimpy48124 at aol.com
Subject: longest time you can lager without harm?

    What is the longest time that you can safely lager beer without a 
degradation of quality? I'm looking to get a freezer [two actualy] and I'm 
wondering if I should get a full size chest  and a smaller one dedicated to 
fermentation or two smaller ones.  I'd like to be able to brew larger batches 
of standard brews to keep on tap and then have more time for experimenting 
but it won't be worth it to run a full size freezer if I can't stock up on 
larger batches [10/15 gallons] at a time. I work afternoons so the beer [ 
large batches] will need to last a while anyway [I can't drink and go to work 
and getting off at 3 or 4 a.m. and coming home and drinking don't get it] .

    My "ThunderMug Brewery" [RIMS] is just about complete now, I'm just 
waiting for my  "Mashmate 1600" from Paragon Brewing Co. to arrive. They say 
allow 3 to 5 weeks from ordering time for delivery and I'm climbing the wall 
waiting for it. Tomorrow is 5 weeks and I've E-mailed them with no response 
back. I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas! I ran cable tv out to my garage 
and I can't wait to start. College Football, Hockey and Beer!!! SWMBO said I 
might as well take my pillow out too, I spend enough time out there! 

     For you folks Downunder, I was very disappointed with the coverage of 
The Games. I didn't see anyone worrying about "salties" or spiders. Two guys 
I work with won trips to the Games and they never saw any spiders in the 
'loo. They did say though, that the beer was great, [they have no taste, 
whatever is on sale {cheap!} is great to them] and that it was real cheap 
with the currency exchange. 
    
    For anyone with Detroit city water, what style is our water best suited 
for [after de-clorination]? Also a question for Jeff Renner, what is your 
water parameters, do you modify your water,  and how best to modify my local 
water for brewing your CAP? Are you on Detroit city water? 
        Thanks,   Karl

Karl Meyer
Founder, Operator [soon I hope!], and Chief Lackey [for SWMBO]
"ThunderMug Brewery" [RIMS]
Dearborn, Michigan
Aprox. 25 miles East Rennerian


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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:23:00 PDT
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Post on HBD

>>>
Pat Lohmann <glohmann at whoi.edu>
Subject: Acorn Ale?

Any thoughts on brewing an acorn-based ale? Only mention of it in the
archives was a '93 response to thoughts about brewing with nuts. After
commenting that nuts likely contained too much oil, Chuck Wettergreen
wrote "Hey, Euell Gibbons used to make biscuits from acorn flour, why
not give it a try?"

I recall that acorns are rich in tannin, so Euell Gibbons must remove it
somehow (dry, grind, boil, wash?).  I suppose the starch would be
gelatinized in the process. Maybe 40% acorn starch, 60% 6-row barley
malt?

I could be encouraged to try a 5-gallon batch. We have an unusually
large crop of acorns here this year.

Pat Lohmann
Woods Hole MA
>>

Being in the Boy Scouts, I spent a great deal of time near Natvie American 
lands, and learned alot about their culture.  I know the Native Americans 
ground the acorns, and then (this is where I could go wrong) leeched them.

Here is what I remember about them doing it.  They would grind the acorns, 
and then leech them in water to extract the tannis.  I believe they put some 
other plant in to help the process.

My grandpa used to own some property that had these grinding stones, we have 
a compiled book, I can try to look for it if you would like more information 
(or I am sure the information is on the net).

Good luck.

Leland
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