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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  pH Meters ("Jack Schmidling")
  RE: lactose, stouts, & gas ("Keith Menefy")
  Rice Lager In A Plastic Bottle ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Sugar and Water (Charley Burns)
  Long lager lag length (Charles Preston)
  pre-boiling water ("John Herman")
  Gypsum??? (Hop_Head)
  The Beer Prayer ("Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard")
  help a new brewer ("Michael J. Leavitt")
  More Water Questions (Epic8383)
  grain astringency (ALABREW)
  Re: RIMS Procedures, Mashing In & Sparge Temps, Apple notes,HERMs (Jeff Renner)
  Caught between a cold and a damp place ("Drew Avis")
  Acorn By the Book ("Brett Schneider")
  NCHF Pictures (Bob Wilcox)
  re: old porter recipes (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Spooky Brew 2000 deadline approaches ("Jim Hodge")


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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:45:24 -0500
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: pH Meters

From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>

>I'm going to upgrade my pH meter in the near future.  Any recommendations
for a source and specific meter that will read to 0.01 pH units?

After spinning my wheels with a number in budget type pH meters, I bought a
good one and the proper external probe from Cole Parmer and love it.

It's called a Digi-Sense and costs about $200 sans probe.  The cost of the
probe depends on the type and usage.  Mine was $135 for organics.

As a point of interest, I never saw much need for a pH meter in brewing as
it always came out about the same and about nominal and I quit testing.

Cheese making is another story and the pH is absolutly critical and
determines when to take the next step.  Furthermore, .01 unit is also a must
for cheese.

Anyway it is a great little instrument and a joy to use.  I check the
calibration every time I use it at 7 and 4 but it almost never needs to be
diddled.  It is as stable as a rock.

js

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
Home Page: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos http://user.mc.net/arf






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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:27:37 +1300
From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: RE: lactose, stouts, & gas

G'Day

Richard asks about making a sweet stout without lactose.
I recently made a chocolate stout using Hershey's Syrup (genuine chocolate
flavor) aiming for a stout with a slight chocolate flavour. (I'm a
chocoholic)
The result was the best tasting stout I have ever made. Can't actually taste
the chocolate but with a slight sweet finish. That was made a few months ago
now and the sweetness is gradually fading.
I used about 180 grams in a 22 Litres secondary ferment.
Made a sweet stout using lactose about the same time. The chocolate stout
tastes sweeter and has a better flavour.

Cheers Keith
New Zealand





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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:21:43 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Rice Lager In A Plastic Bottle

Dave Humes did not like my imaginary treatment of the neighbour's cat. But I
am pleased that he apparently approved of my beer. After all he could have
been insulting and claimed it tasted like cat's piss. Though this would
hardly be possible considering the extreme lengths I went to in discouraging
the neighbour's cat from adding that "final touch".

But the lager Dave tried was not my rice lager, the assessment of which will
have to lie with Jeff Renner who has just received a plastic bottle of this
"girl killer" beer.

As I am not posting so often these days, spending an inordinate amount of
time nurturing a very sick (well we all knew that) Doc Pivo back to health
after his last catastrophic break down, I felt obliged to waste a bit of
band width. By the way Pat, I must be due to send you another donation.

We've nearly lost the Doc on several occasions, with his heart beat dropping
to zero. Not having a defibrillator handy here on Burradoo Estate, I have
had to resort to whispering "Steve Alexander" gently in his ear, with most
spectacular results. Unfortunately though, it puts the Doc right back in the
state from which he started. A very vicious circle!

But about the beer in a plastic bottle.
Jeff Renner has received it.
At the time of writing he had not yet tried it.
Perhaps he would like to make a comment.

Cheers
Phil








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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:04:10 -0700
From: Charley Burns <cburns99 at pacbell.net>
Subject: Sugar and Water

Getting ready to do a Chimay clone.

My water stinks (literally of chlorine) so I've been using my brotherinlaw's
well water. That stuff is hard hard hard (but tastes great). Should I go
ahead and use it as is, or perhaps cut it with some distilled water to
soften it up? No AJ, I don't know how hard it is or what the various element
content might be, I just know it leaves water spots on the car if you don't
dry after washing. It makes great pale ales, IPA's and porter.

Now about sugar. Does it really make a difference whether I use cane sugar,
belgian candi sugar (very expensive), brown sugar, invert sugar,
cornsyrup...? The recipe (kindly shared by Jay Spies the other day) calls
for cane sugar but I can't help wonder if spending a few extra bucks on the
candi sugar would make a big difference. Has there been any experimentation
on this or is it all "opinion" out there?

And what the heck is the real difference between the red label and blue
lable chimay (besides the price). Are they made differently?

If you post an answer to the digest, please email me direct too.

Charley



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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Preston <cp1811 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Long lager lag length

Methodology:  Used about 8oz. slurry from an ayinger
which had been in fridge under lock for about 2-3
weeks. Poured it in 1L of starter in gal jug, shook a
few times to aerate, and placed under an airlock at
48d F for two days.

Brewed the CAP wort, could only chill to 60d with my 2
stage immersion set-up. Took the yeast, shook it
again, (had a krauezen) pitched in the five gal wort,
aerated with an aquarium pump for about 5", and placed
in my chest freezer at 48d. This is day 4, and I'm not
getting any "bubbles". ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO WHY SO
LONG A LAG TIME? Charlie Preston in Mansfield, Ohio


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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:28:21 -0400
From: "John Herman" <johnvic at earthlink.net>
Subject: pre-boiling water

This will sound like an obvious and stupid question, but I'm prepared to
deal with the shame of asking.  Better to be safe than sorry.

When brewing with extracts I pre-boil a few gallons of water to add to the
concentrated wort.  I then put the sanitized water into a sanitized carboy
and cover the top.

The stupid question is - Is there any reason to re-boil that water if I
don't use it the next day or two?  Can it last a week or more?

Thanks,

John Herman
johnvic at earthlink.net



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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:40:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hop_Head at webtv.net
Subject: Gypsum???

How much gypsum do you use for a five gallon batch of IPA? When do you
add it?  I am using spring water. Thanks, Jim



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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:37:48 -0400
From: "Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard" <taliesin2 at earthlink.net>
Subject: The Beer Prayer

Got this off of the About.com msg board om Beer & Homebrewing. It is not
meant to offend those with strong religious beliefs.

Our Beer 
Which art in bottles 
Hallowed by thy sport 
Thy will be drunk 
I will be drunk 
At home as it is in the pub 
Give us each day our daily schooners 
And forgive us our spillage 
As we forgive those who spillest against us 
And lead us not into the practice of wine tasting 
And deliver us from Tequila 
For mine is better 
The chicks and the bootys 
Forever and ever 
Barmen.

- --
Everything on this earth has a purpose, and every disease an herb to
cure it, and every person a mission. This is the Indian theory of
existence. --Mourning Dove, 1888-1936 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: herbs-unsubscribe at witchhaven.com
For additional commands, e-mail: witchhaven-help at witchhaven.com




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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:39:42 -0700
From: "Michael J. Leavitt" <ml65 at mail.csuchico.edu>
Subject: help a new brewer


I just made my first batch of beer!  It is a Scottish Ale.  I made it from
a kit using DME pelllet hops and some grains.  I have several questions.  I
am using Wyeast #1728 Scottish.  I put the wort into a 6.5 gal glass carboy
and added the yeast.  It has now been siting for 36 hours and the yeast is
very active.  There is a lot of stuff floating on the top. is this a top
fermenting yeast?  If so how do i scrape off all the scum when it is in a
glass carboy?  If it isnt what is going on?  Also while transfering the
wort into the carboy a lot of the sedement went in with it, what effects
will this have on the final taste of the beer? I plan on racking into a
seconday 5 gal glass carboy when the primary fermentation is through. 
Finaly, while I was puting the air lock on the rubber stoper went into the
wort, rather than try to fish it out of the carboy I left it in and used
another air lock.  Is this  going to effect anything?  Than you for
answering my questions.  Im not to woried just curious, Its only beer  





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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:19:10 EDT
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: More Water Questions

    Hi Folks,
  I just moved to my new (old) house in Massapequa, NY and got a copy of the 
most recent water report from my new supplier. This water is so soft, it's 
damn near distilled! My question isn't about chlorine/chloramine (easy, 
Graham) as they use sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide. My activated 
charcoal filter can handle that. Here's what's got me puzzled-they add 
"Calciquest" which is said to be "A blend of phosphate compounds, which also 
aid in maintaining 'optimun treatment' to stabilize naturally occuring 
dissolved iron." My reaction was phosphates?!? I thought they were the bad 
chemicals that would end life on earth as we know it (according to Al Gore, 
anyway). Seriously, does anyone know about this stuff and it's effect on mash 
reactions through to finished beer?
      Thanks,
   Gus Rappold
P.S. My iron levels are based on 8 samples and are as follows:
            High- 1.28 mg/l       Low- 0.04 mg/l       Avg- 0.39 mg/l


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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:51:35 -0500
From: ALABREW <alabrew at mindspring.com>
Subject: grain astringency


Darrell <Terminally Intermediate Home-brewer> wrote:

I used Tony (lastname?)'s suggestion 
(Tony is the brewer  at  Elm City in Keene, NH) to not put the 
roasted barley in the mash, but rather in the lauter tun, and 
I do think that this cuts down a bit on the harshness that can 
sometimes accompany roasted barley...

To which I add: 
Have you ever tried the Weyermann Dehusked Carafa I, II, or III? 
The lack of the husk makes these grains have no astringency. 
Highly recommended.

Kim
- -- 
Kim and Sun Ae Thomson
ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies
8916 A Parkway East
Birmingham, AL 35206
(205) 833-1716
http://www.mindspring.com/~alabrew
mailto:alabrew at mindspring.com
Beer and Wine Making Ingredients and Supplies


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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:59:01 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: RIMS Procedures, Mashing In & Sparge Temps, Apple notes,HERMs

"Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at can.dupont.com> has some questions.  First, 
asylle suggestion to Jay and others.  Use short paragraphs and use a 
line between them, or at least indent.  It's easier on the eyes. 
When I see all that unbroken black text, MEGO and I'm tempted to just 
page down.

I'm not sure why you're getting grains into your pump lines but I 
suspect you're running the pump at too fast a rate.  This will keep 
you from compacting the grain bed.  Throttle it back with a valve. 
Standard wisdom suggests you do it on the output of the pump, but I 
throttle it before the pump and I haven't hurt the pump yet (fingers 
crossed - five years).

Instead of dumping the grain into the water, put just enough water in 
the mash tun to cover the false bottom, put in the dry grains and add 
the water gradually and stir as you go.  I doubt it takes me two 
minutes to mash in and break up dry lumps  This has another advantage 
 - the grain is never heated higher than your mashin temp.

If your mash bed compacts, you can often stir it up to loosen it. 
Also, you might be able to blow in the line outlet to dislodge a 
plug, so you don't have to disassemble things.  Just don't burn your 
lips.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:52:59 GMT
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Caught between a cold and a damp place

Brewsters: I'm faced with a conundrum.  We've just moved into a new old 
house (built circa 1870) with very little storage space.  I have three sacks 
of grain, and four more on order, and I've just discovered that SWMBO feels 
that while sacks of grain may have been an acceptable furnishing in the dump 
we used to call home, they are no longer.  So, the choice of home for grain 
(and other brewing equipment actually) is the garage, which is unheated and 
easily accessible to sundry small creatures, or the basement, which stays 
nice and cool year round but is damp.  Now, the garage seems like the best 
candidate if I could use air-tight mouse-proof containers, as I'm sure 
dampness is worse for grain than sub-zero temperatures.  Is that correct?  
How long will my grain last?  I have different varieties of Canada Malting 
and Hugh Baird malts.

On the topic of brewing a historical porter with brown malt, I actually have 
a 25kg sack of Hugh Baird brown malt, bought with the intention of doing a 
historical porter.  I soon discovered that this malt does not closely 
resemble the historical variety - I  actually use about 10% in my brown 
porters and brown ales.  It lends very nice colour, and a good coffee / 
roast flavour, although at more than 10% I'm thinking it would be a bit 
overwhelming.  There's no way I would make a beer with 100% or even 50% of 
this malt. So, anyone in the Ottawa Valley who would like some brown malt, 
let me know, I've got lots!

Drew Avis,
Merrickville
http://www.geocities.com/andrew_avis/

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:05:52 EDT
From: "Brett Schneider" <bikenbrew at hotmail.com>
Subject: Acorn By the Book

According to Wines and Beers of old New England, by Sandborn C. Brown, ISBN 
0-8745-148-8, acorns are turned into flour. See pages 60/62 if you care to 
get the specific wording.

Baiscally, the nuts are shelled and ground coursely thru a meat grinder. Tie 
them in cheese cloth and place them into a running brook. It takes 3 to 4 
weeks to leach them of their tannins. OR boil them and change the water 
often as it darkens and turns to tea color. This is about a 2 hour process.

Then you dry the bits slowly in an oven, grind them again and make a course 
flour, then dry once more. 5 lbs to make one cup flour.

Not sure how this helps but that's then end of my reference on nuts....
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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:06:56 -0700
From: Bob Wilcox <bobw at sirius.com>
Subject: NCHF Pictures

Here is a link to some pictures of the Northern Calif. Homebrewers Fest.
Held in Napa Ca. Oct. 7. These were taken by Bob Jones from the Draft
Board Homebrew Club. What a fun weekend it was.
Photo Album:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=183984&a=9340790


I would like to make sure George Fix gets this link, but I don't have
his email address or web page address. If someone could send it to me
that would be great.

Bob Wilcox
Alameda & Long Barn Ca.
bobw at sirius.com
Draught Board Home Brew Club
http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm




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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:11:15 +1100 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at aus.sun.com>
Subject: re: old porter recipes

morning,

after a surfing trip down south i come to you with an extremly bad
cold and the memories of Graham's old porter.

the porter is entirley different to my take on the whole porter thing.
there was an over all balance to the beer, deep brown colour and 
an entirly different flavour profile.

unlike the sweet and bold porter i had made; Sempai's came accross
as the 'quite acheivers porter', a bit like the tortose and the hare, it
came first because it had not been buggared up by the hands of a tinkler 
who just cannot resist but add just a pinch more...and then some more of 
ingrediant X for good measure!

the bret was something i have never tried and would like to again. maybe it
is the historical bend that has got me interested, but it was definately
interesting.

scotty
aka serendipidous swallow



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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:10:12 -0500
From: "Jim Hodge" <jdhodge at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Spooky Brew 2000 deadline approaches

Just a reminder that the deadline for entries for Spooky Brew 2000 will be
this coming Saturday, October 21st.  This year's Spooky is an MCAB
qualifying event and a leg of Midwest Homebrewer of the Year competition.
Details and entry forms are available at the Chicago Beer Society website
(URL at the end of this message).....and, of course, judges and stewards are
still needed.

Jim Hodge
Organizer, Spooky Brew Review 2000
Chicago Beer Society
6515 N. Springfield Ave.
Lincolnwood, IL  60712
847-679-3829:  voice
847-329-8691: fax
http://www.chibeer.org



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