HOMEBREW Digest #3460 Tue 24 October 2000

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  Cleaning a CF chiller... (Some Guy)
  How damp is damp? ("Drew Avis")
  re: Ptch Temp for lagers (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty)
  Honey question, new Wyeast tubes (Chris Cooper)
  Water Floridation ("Jeffry D Luck")
  Re: is Stevia safe, and / or good for brewers? (B.R. Rolya)
  RE: Zymurgy, AHA and its New Board ("Gary Glass")
  Sanke Mash Tun (Chad Petersen)
  Re: Cleaning Counterflow Chiller ("Daniel C Stedman")
  Separate/combined mash/lauter vessels ("Bret Morrow")
  FAQs and FUQs and Mythology ("Stephen Alexander")
  RE: infections and AHA ("Brian Lundeen")
  nonhoppy IPA (Frank Tutzauer)
  Brewer's Spurtle (Todd Goodman)
  chiller (gexpres)
  sake (Jim Liddil)
  Rice Beer ("Mike Pensinger")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 06:11:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Cleaning a CF chiller... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... I clean my CF chiller simply enough - I run water through it after each use. If you are using gravity as your means to get the wort through it, you may need to make hose adapter for the input, but there has been no ill affects from simply hooking the beast to the tap after each use and blasting H2O through it. Prior to chilling a batch, I sanitize by allowing it to recirculate the boiling wort for fifteen minutes prior to turning on the water to chill it. Been using this beast since '94 or so, and have kept beers chilled through it for up to six years will no or little sign of infection. As always, YMMV, but I'll not be worrying about my counterflow chiller cleanliness... - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:54:45 GMT From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: How damp is damp? Thanks to all the responses to my question about where to store my grain. I tried Brian's suggestion to tell SWMBO that "Hugh Baird" is a fancy British designer name, and hey look at all our new beanbag chairs, but to no avail. She caught on faster than a wombat on fire and insisted that the house remain a grain bag-free zone. I've since settled on the basement, as the garage experiences extremes in heat and cold (although Alan McKay down the road assures me his grain is fine stored under these conditions). As you recall, the basement is damp, but how damp is damp? I bought a hygrometer from Home Hardware which tells me that yesterday the relative humidity outside was 52%, while in the basement it was 72% (at 58 degrees Fahrenheit). I'm thinking of buying a dehumidifier in the spring to keep that number under 100%, but isn't 72% still pretty high? What relative humidity should one aim for when storing grain? This is of pressing concern since I'm picking up 5 new designer bean bag chairs this afternoon. (Note: I'm following the advice of many to buy some of those inexpensive Rubbermaid stackable containers to store the grain in, but I've looked at the seal and I don't believe they're totally air-tight - perhaps bagging the grain in garbage bags would help?). Thanks in advance for any advice! Drew Avis in Merrickville Ontario StrangeBrew Software: http://www.geocities.com/andrew_avis/sb/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:47:15 GMT From: mikey at swampgas.com (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty) Subject: re: Ptch Temp for lagers "Jeff Lewis" <jlewis92 at alumni.princeton.edu> wrote: >I've heard advice to pitch at warmer temps and then lower once it gets >going. In anticipation of someone suggesting this, may I throw in a >question here too? My question on this is that to the same degree that >you've allowed the yeast to "get going" at these warmer temps, haven't you >caused/encouraged the very fermentation by-products that the lower temp is >supposed to eliminate/reduce? I'd strongly suggest pitching at appropriate lager temps. I've done this both ways, and get a much better (cleaner) beer pitching cool. Some will pitch warm, and claim to get great results, but the warm-pitched lagers I've had (both my own and other brewers) really haven't been particularly lager-like -- although at least one example turned out to be a pretty decent beer. Note that the results of warm-pitching may vary by yeast strain. In my own experience, it's best to pitch cool and with a large starter. The colder the ferment at the beginning, the better off you'll be. On the other hand, it's fine to let the temp rise as the ferment progresses. I've actually just removed my fermentor from the fridge when I'm down to about 2/3rds attenuation and let the beer rise as high as 68F. This finishes the beer quickly and reduces diacetyl. Although I've actually had mixed success with the diacetyl reduction using this technique, the lager characteristics of the beer really haven't been affected by this practice. Pitching warm is basically done to allow you to use a smaller starter. The idea is that the yeast will grow faster when the beer is still warm, and quickly overwhelm any other organisms. But it is just this massive growth phase that produces undesirable flavors (in lagers, anyway). I believe one of the ideas behind pitching high is to actually minimize the yeast growth phase and the accompanying ale-like flavors. Cheers -- M ************************************** Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:16:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: Honey question, new Wyeast tubes Greetings All! Yesterday I finally got around to a brew-day ! HUZZAH! I made 10 gallons of cyser (it's apple cider time in Michigan 8^) and needed to pick up some yeast for the batch. My local homebrew store had a fresh supply of the new Wyeast "pitchable" tubes so I decided to give them a try. I used #1338 (I believe that is London Ale) and started them just before starting the brew-day, by pitching time there was activity but by the next morning the airlocks only showed a slight positive pressure. I am sure they will pick up today as the yeast had to adjust to a much heavier wort than the starter (starter was 1.040 and the cyser was around 1.098). This is a double batch so I used two of the tubes. I will report back on the final results. I also racked a 1-year old mild mead into two 3-gallon carboys and added additional honey and fruit to each (one got wild black rasberries and the other got elder berries). They look great, but it will be a long time before they are ready. I also made a simple pale ale as my beer supply was starting to shrink (down to my last couple of gallons!). It was great to be back in the brewery again! I have a quick question, what methodology do you follow to add honey to an already going batch? (add cold, heat and add, add a small bit each day, etc.) Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen) Commerce, Michigan Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild (Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:10:47 -0600 From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com> Subject: Water Floridation Hi gang, The county I'm in will vote is a couple weeks on whether to add floride to the water system. Anybody know what this is going to do to my brew water? Are there any brewers out there who have weathered a change from 'basic' to floridated water, or vise-versa? Jeff Luck Salt Lake City, UT USA Having a wonderful wine. Wish you were beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:27:04 -0400 From: br at triagemusic.com (B.R. Rolya) Subject: Re: is Stevia safe, and / or good for brewers? Darrell writes: >I recently was told of "stevia", a natural sweetner from S. >America,...is this stuff ok for brewing? Does is have any >mono, or other saccharides that can be broken down by >yeasties, or can it be used (safely?) to increase residual >sweetness in brews? A brewery in Belgium, De Proef, uses stevia in a beer they make for diabetics. It most definitely increases sweetness! (It was a little too sweet for my palate, but interesting nonetheless. It also had an odd, undefinable flavor that I can only compare to the bite that one gets out of diet sodas.) As I had never heard of the plant before and was not interested in making beer with stevia, I didn't ask many questions as to how it was used in the brewing session. I do know that they used dried stevia and needed to use a lot of it in order to get the requisite sweetness (the beer was a tripel-style). I do recall that they said that the beer has no residual sugars and has an attenuation of 102%! This spring, for the first time, I noticed stevia seeds available in my garden catalogues. The plant itself looks resembles leafy kale or other large greens when growing. - --------- Maybe it's a regional thing, but wanker is common in the northeastern US... - BR Rolya Malted Barley Appreciation Society New York http://hbd.org/mbas/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:38:41 -0600 From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org> Subject: RE: Zymurgy, AHA and its New Board "FatCat" Writes: >>AHA. Hummm... Ever tried to find out anything on the AHA site? This day I tried to find a list of the club-only brews. The discussion of trhe subject was last updated in March 2000, at the end of this years competitions. Is there a list of styles for this year? I also wanted information on starting a club. Great info telling you the advantages of a club, how to go non-profit, how to be appropriately touchy-feely adayadayada...but nowhere could I find a simple list saying "do this dummy, send us your $X, and we will give you..." I remember a year or so ago, it seems some then 'outsider' but now newly elected members of the AHA Board were demanding detailed info on AHA 'personal data' like salaries, suggesting malfeasance etc. Let's see what is forthcoming. I wonder if their skin will be as thick as the Board's was when they were firing the barbs (heeheehee), we've seen how some react to minor criticism<< FatCat, The Club-Only Competition pages can be found at: http://www.beertown.org/AHA/clubcomp.htm. The COC schedule found here includes styles for Club-Only Competitions through December of 2001. You can get to the club-only pages from the AHA homepage (http://www.beertown.org/AHA/homebrewing.htm) either by clicking on the Homebrew Clubs link or the Sanctioned Competition Program link. Both the Clubs page and the SCP page have links to the Club-Only Competition pages. I honestly have no idea what you were looking at that hasn't been updated since March 2000, could you provide me with the URL and/or let me know how you got there? I will have it fixed ASAP. If anyone ever comes across outdated pages or broken links on the www.beertown.org site, please let us know. We do not have an all-in-one starter kit for a new homebrew clubs, although I think the information on the website should give you a good starting point. How one goes about starting a club will vary depending on the local situation. We are however, always willing to provide advice to anyone who asks. You can call the AHA toll free at 1-888-U-CAN-BREW (1-888-822-6273) or send an email to me at gary at aob.org or AHA Director Paul Gatza at paul at aob.org. You might also try contacting one of the AHA Board of Advisors members who might be more familiar with your area. You can find the email addresses for all of the AHA BOA members on the AHA Board and Bylaws page of the website: http://www.beertown.org/AHA/ahabylaws.htm. You can also find the minutes to the AHA BOA meetings which took place at the National Homebrewers Conference in Michigan last June on the AHA Board and Bylaws page. AHA financial information was posted on page 5 of the September/October issue of Zymurgy. We are always looking for ways to improve the AHA and we heartily encourage AHA members to share their ideas with us because the members are the AHA! So please feel free to contact the Board of Advisor Members, Paul Gatza, or me. Cheers! Gary Glass - ------------------------- Gary Glass, Administrator American Homebrewers Association Voice: (303) 447-0816 x 121 Fax: (303) 447-2825 Email: gary at aob.org Web: http://www.beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:52:08 -0700 From: Chad Petersen <Chad.Petersen at wwu.edu> Subject: Sanke Mash Tun This is an addendum to the man describing his sanke mash tun. The best one I have seen was one where they cut out the bottom instead of the top. Weld a cap on the spear end after removing the spear of course, and tap a hole through the side of the neck and run a piece of .5" stainless pipe through a handle hole into a ball valve. From the open end (bottom) you go down and cut a small notch in the hole at the bottom as a key to stick your bit of barstock through and lock the stainless screen into place with the aid of a stainless bolt witha wing nut on the end. After your session dump the grain, reach in and twist the locking screw and the screen and all just pops out. Quite slick really... Father Chad Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:12:18 -0500 From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com> Subject: Re: Cleaning Counterflow Chiller I was having some problems myself before using the following cleaning regiment: Right after I complete my brewing, I pump a PBW/hot water solution through all of my hoses and my chiller for 15 minutes, then give it an hour or so soak while cleaning up other stuff. Before using my chiller on brew day, I boil it for 15 minutes in my hot liquor tank/fermenter (since I am already sanitizing my fermenter by boiling water in it), and then hook up my chiller to the output of the hot liquor tank and drop all of the hot water through it as a final rinse before using it to chill. I happen to have an all-copper chiller - you probably wouldn't want to boil the garden-hose variety for fear of damaging the hose. My beers have been much cleaner ever since making this change and starting to carbon filter all of my brewing water. I know that a lot of people don't have a setup that would enable them to do the above. At the very least you could make up some cleaner in your boil kettle immediately after chilling your wort and drop that through your chiller to clean it before storage. The first time that I ran PBW through my chiller (after having used it for a few batches without cleaning it with PBW) I had some pretty nasty looking stuff come out of it, so you will probably want to give it a long soak the first time. Then on brew day you could make up a 12.5 ppm iodopher solution and fill your chiller with that for 20 minutes before running your hot wort through it, making sure that the chiller is completely full of cleaner without any air pockets by filling it from the bottom up... Good luck! Dan in Minnetonka Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:26:44 GMT From: "Bret Morrow" <bretmorrow at hotmail.com> Subject: Separate/combined mash/lauter vessels Greetings, I was reading Ant. Hayes & Chris Farley's commments on separate Vs. combined mash and lauter vessels. I think there is a "best of both worlds" solution. I use a copper manifold that gets placed into the mash vessel (picnic cooler) after the mash is over. The manifold drains through a rigid copper line that goes up over top of the side of the picnic cooler. It does require a siphon to start removing the wort out of the mash tun, but there is no concern when mashing in, because the manifold is not present then. It works for me. Cheers, Bret Morrow Hamden, CT _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:18:48 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: FAQs and FUQs and Mythology Dan Listerman says ... >It has been my experiance that "newbe all grainer + poor crush = poor >extraction." Good call Dan, another common newbie extraction problem. Please add this to the FAQ ;^) === Graham Sanders, Brian Lundeen, Keith Busby, Petr Otahal all remark about honey-like sweet flavors that appear in beers. This might be considered a frequently unanswered question, except that =S(pencer) pointed to one source - 2-3 pentane-dione (acetyl-proprionyl) is a di-carbonyl analog of diacetyl (2,3-butane-dione). Just as diacetyl is formed from pyruvate+acetaldehye -> acetolactate -> diacetyl. For 2,3pentane-dione there is an additional step where oxobutarate combines with an intermediate to form aceto-hydroxy butarate (instead of acetolactate). 2,3PD is also produced in small quantities and reduced by yeast late in the fermentation (diacetyl rest). Other honeylike aromas can appear from ethyl-(E)-cinnamate, phenethyl acetate, cinnamic acid and 2-phenylethanol. The phelylethanol is known to appear in beer at 20-60ppm, and phenethyl acetate is it's ester. ethyl-cinnamate (if it appears in beer at all) has a less obvious origin. Cinnamic acid is a significant component of malt phenolics of malt. I also mentioned that there are many reports of overly-sweet staling aromas developing (particularly in ales). Honey-like, molasses-like and caramel are all used descriptively. I don't know enough about the source but this form of staling is increased with post fermentation oxygen inclusion and shows a rather constant increase during aging. Not an answer but perhaps a beginning. === Dave Howell asks ... >A question for those who 'spurment (Pivos, et. al): has anyone done single >vs. double decoctions? This was a first of any kind of decoction for me ... >Which of the two (three for PU) >decoctions actually adds the most character and flavor to the finished >product? Should I do one preferentially over another? I've gotta say it (again) the idea that decoction adds some amazing new bold character to mediocre lager is an HB myth. If your lagers are anything short of consistently amazing then there are easier ways to improve as much without doubling your brew day. That the impact is subtle and debatable can be seen in Louis Bonham's 'RIMS vs Decoction' article in BT a couple years back. I've compared 1/2/3 decoction mashes. Three seems a waste of time. You get most of the impact from a single decoction performed after simple sugars have formed (fm 60C to 72C for example). The method for other boosts makes little difference. That said I'd advise keeping the decoction boil time about constant regardless of the number of decocts. What little magic comes from decoction seems to come from the thick sweet boil. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:52:27 -0500 From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: infections and AHA My brewclub mate Ralph Link writes: > Our last two batches of all grain have developed an infection. Ralph, I'll talk to you at the upcoming club meeting but the cause of your infections seems obvious: brewing invitations! Think about it, first me, then Don, and both those batches have gone bad. Obviously the other members of the brew club are upsetting the natural balance that exists at your place. Our karmas are creating super bugs that sanitizers can't kill! Perhaps we shouldn't have the upcoming meeting at your place. The half-life of the karmic imbalance created by that many foreign bodies could leave your place unbrewable for years! ;-) Fatcat bemoans the state of the AHA web site with: > > AHA. Hummm... Ever tried to find out anything on the AHA site? > This day I tried to find a list of the club-only brews. The > discussion of trhe subject was last updated in March 2000, > at the end of this years competitions. Is there a list of > styles for this year? To answer your questions, yes and yes. The links are there but here's a shortcut. The club-only competition list is at: http://www.beertown.org/AHA/1999_aha_coc.htm I also wanted information on starting a > club. Great info telling you the advantages of a club, how to > go non-profit, how to be appropriately touchy-feely > adayadayada...but nowhere could I find a simple list saying > "do this dummy, send us your $X, and we will give you..." I just started a homebrew club and so far things have worked out pretty well. I took the approach that the best place to look for homebrewers is in the homebrew supply shops. I got a couple of GOOD shops onside, gave them my contact sheet, and they passed the word around to their regular customers that they thought would fit in to the club environment. The key is the willingness to drive this until it becomes a self-sustaining entity. Have a clear idea of what you want this club to be, and detail that in your contact sheet, so at least you are starting with like-minded people. Get people to contact you through the homebrew shop, setup an initial meeting somewhere (I just had the guys over to my place), and hope you find a few people that are willing to contribute to the organization and running of the club. If the chemistry is there, it should fly. If not, perhaps it wasn't meant to be. Cheers, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:42:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu> Subject: nonhoppy IPA Cass has an IPA recipe: > I brewed a 5 gallon > batch of beer that was supposed to be an IPA. I used 1 can amber and 1 > can light extract. I added (steeped) 1 lb. crystal 20 and 3/4 lb > specialroast. > Hops:Full boil (1 hour)1oz Chinook at 12% 1oz Galena at 11.7% > Half Boil (1/2 hour)1 oz MT. Hood at 4.1% > Final 10 minutes (flavor? /aroma?) 2oz SAAZ at 3.6% > Is this just not enough hops? this does not taste very bitter to me. Yow, I think this should be plenty bitter. If you do a partial boil, you'll lose a little efficiency, but geez louise you've got almost 24 AAUs of bittering hops. This ought to pucker your mouth. > should I add more hops at the end of the boil? It won't affect your bitterness. > OK... now I have another question. I thought that the high alpha hops > would give me higher bitterness. they were in for an hour so I was > under the impression that would give me good utilization of the acid. They should. If your beer really is sweet, I would suspect something like the package was mislabeled, or you thought you added the hops when you really forgot. >I also believe > hops added at the end of the boil do not need to be high alpha because > most > of the acid is not utilized anyway. You don't get much bitterness from late additions so the alpha is not critial. Choose on the basis of taste. - --frank Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:22:00 -0400 From: Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> Subject: Brewer's Spurtle I just wanted to say that I received a Brewer's Spurtle from SABCO and it is truly a thing of beauty! It's a short canoe paddle with elongated holes in the paddle part. Made out of maple and finished beautifully. I'm sure some people out there could make one themselves, but if you're not a woodworker (or lazy like me) then this is a nice strong paddle for stirring the mash. I'd been looking for a good mash paddle off and on and am real pleased with this one. No affiliation with SABCO (aside from happily using a mash/boil kettle for a few years and just ordering a couple more recently). Todd Brewing in Westford, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:03:21 -0600 From: gexpres at pvnet.com.mx (gexpres) Subject: chiller Do you know if there is any conection with the soldering in my chiller = and contaminated wort? Because of my layout, the chiller has several = soldered joints (tin lead soldering) and I suspect this could be the = answer. I have sanitized my chiller with every procedure available = -chlorine, iodofor- and keep brewing foul vinegar instead. Any = suggestions? Diego Lemionet Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:56:06 -0400 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu> Subject: sake For those who don't get the sake digest, I'd thought I would let you know that you can now buy highly polished rice and real sake koji from Steinbarts. The rice and koji come form Momokawa. also fred eckhardt has a new rvised recipe available. no affiliation, no freebies, just thought this info might be helpful. Jim Liddil Sake Digest Moderator Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:55:31 -0400 From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermkr at verizon.net> Subject: Rice Beer Well I am going to embark on the quest for a rice beer that is drinkable. My plan involves some 6 row and some rice and some mild hopping levels. What do you all think about using the boiled rice to bring the mash to saccarification temps? I was planning to dough in at about 122 dF and let thet rest for 20 minutes and add the hot rice to bring the mash to 149 dF or so. I have to work out the exect temps to hit my marks but had a couple questions, the first being has anyone else done this. The second has to do with the rice. Should I run it through my mill or leave it whole. Also should I boil some grain with it? I seem to remember reading something like that in cereal mashes. Thanks in advance for any hints and tips you may have, Mike Pensinger beermkr at verizon.net Mikes Homebrewery "Who needs propane when you have a spare dryer outlet" http://members.bellatlantic.net/~eermkr Return to table of contents
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