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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Off-topic: Degree Confluence Project (Jeff Renner)
  Fluid Flow Comments / Zinc Glucanate (John Palmer)
  Review: Rock Bottom Brewery - Portland, OR ("Sweeney, David")
  Which pitch? ("Peed, John")
  false bottom spacing ("Stephen Lane")
  Australian Barley (Philip Ritson)
  Pleasures of a new Tun (David Lamotte)
  Posing a poser (not a poseur) ("Dave Howell")
   ("D. Schultz")
  BarKeepers Friend (EdgeAle)


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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:26:04 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Off-topic: Degree Confluence Project

Brewers

I've just discovered a project that I think would appeal to the likes
of homebrewers - the Degree Confluence Project
http://confluence.org/.  From the web site:  "The goal of the project
is to visit each of the latitude and longitude integer degree
intersections in the world, and to take pictures at each location.
The pictures and stories will then be posted here."

I'm sure that our members all over the world could enjoy trekking to
these spots.  It would be great to have a picture of a homebrewer
enjoying a homebrew at some remote location, such as the intersection
of 19 deg S 146 deg E: Near Hidden Valley, QLD, Australia,

http://www.mapquest.com/cgi-bin/ia_find?link=btwn/
twn-map_results&zoom_level=5&uid=u1aarae1cehdh1be:
82d4ba5rt&SNVData=3mad3-q.fy%28%3d2wu672%3dur0u672
%24tw2%28%3a%28_%3d%3a%28.9f72u6%28nqy72u6%28l%241w-u&pcat=

(you'll have to cut and paste this)

only 40 miles or so from Graham.  Maybe he could take a photo of one
of the dangerous species of wildlife as he drinks his beer.

This must be a fairly new project as there are lots of unvisited
confluences that are not remote at all.  Here is a chance to be an
explorer.  All it takes is transportation, a camera, and a GPS
receiver. If anyone does make a visit and posts it on the web, be
sure to let us know.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:17:01 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Fluid Flow Comments / Zinc Glucanate

Hi Group,
I have received several nice emails from people about the Fluid Flow post 
on Tuesday.
Thanks! It was fun to do. It is interesting that to note that all the 
testing more or less bears out the gestalt fluid flow models of 5-7 years 
ago. First, Al Korzonas post from about 7 years ago and then the BT article 
that my friend Paul and I wrote independently around '95. Both models came 
from civil engineers: Al's Dad, and Paul. The gestalt models were okay, but 
I wanted to be able to put numbers to them and that's how I got started 
with my fluid flow studies.

Regarding Grant Scott's query on his lauter tun design: a perimeter 
manifold supporting a false bottom in a rectangular cooler (typical 
efficiency 75%):
I will offer this:
Edge effects appear to be significant in false bottom designs. It is the 
abrupt change in flow resistance of the wort going thru the grainbed to 
that of the false bottom or manifold that allows for uniform pickup. With 
your setup, I wonder if the wort doesnt see an easy flow path down the 
sides of the tun to the manifold, perhaps leaving a lower flow velocity 
thru the center of the grainbed. In other words, I am not sure the flow 
sees the false bottom, only the manifold. You may want to disconnect the 
manifold and extend an open pickup tube toward the center and see if your 
efficiency improves.

Another aspect to consider is grainbed depth. My experiments have shown 
that deeper grainbeds give better extraction. How deep is your grainbed 
typically? I have done a couple 5 gal batches in a rectangular cooler about 
the same size as yours, and had a grainbed depth of about 5 inches plus 
water layer, and my extraction was about 75-80 % too. When I do a five 
gallon batch in my converted Sankey keg, same grainbed depth, different 
manifold design (round), I get about the same efficiency again. When I do a 
ten gallon batch in the Sankey, my efficiency jumps to 85-90%. I recently 
bought a 5 gallon Gott cooler (round) to use for my 5 gallon batches. My 
friend has one with a single circle manifold and typically gets 85%.

PS. I am already in the process of writing up the Fluid Flow stuff for a 
Beer Geek article for Zymurgy. Part of the reason I got on the ball and 
finished the experiments. Of course there is always one more experiment...
**

On the zinc additions thread, I was wondering about using dietary 
supplements for zinc and calcium additions. Granted these sources may be 
more expensive, but if you have a bottle in the cabinet, why not throw a 
couple pills in?
However, I wondered about the form the minerals are in. A question for you 
microbiologists out there is how well can yeast assimulate this form, and 
what about the other stuff in these pills?
For instance:
Safeway Zinc supplement
50 mg Zinc per tablet
Tablet consists of:
Zinc Gluconate
Starch
Croscarmellose Sodium
Sodium Starch Glycolate
Magnesium Stearate

Thanks!
- --
John Palmer
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com

Let there be Peace on Earth.



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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:25:35 -0600
From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Review: Rock Bottom Brewery - Portland, OR

I had the pleasure of visiting the Rock Bottom Brewery (Van Herrwig - head
brewer) in downtown Portland last week and thought I would give a report. I
arrived about 6pm on a Sunday night and asked if the head brewer was
available.  On his way out the door was the assistant Brewer, Pat.  I
chatted with him just for a minute, and he gave me some recommendations.

The atmosphere of the place was nice, with the brewing equipment behind the
bar, two stories high; top for brewing and bottom for fermenting.  They were
using a burnt-up sorry excuse for a canoe-mash paddle, and so I wrote the
web address for St. Pats in Austin (NAJASCYYY) on a coaster with a
recommendation to call and order their very nice stainless mash paddles and
get rid their current ones.  I asked the barmaid to pass it on (I hope she
did).

I had just eaten so I didn't try the food, but the people seemed to be
enjoying themselves; no disgrunted customers throwing plates of chicken
fingers back at the waitpersons.

They had 8 house-brewed beers on tap and I tried them all.  Here is a list,
from lightest to darkest, with my non-BJCP ratings (on a 10 point scale) and
comments:

1. Swan Island Lager - 6 - overall, a good brew; moderate malt character,
nice floral hop aroma.  I'm guessing Ultra on the hops.
2. Volksweizen Wheat - 7 - really good wheat character with noticeable
coriander.  Slightly turbid and well on style.
3. Sunny Day IPA - 7 - very close to style with that Maris Otter twang to
it.  Approx. 65 IBU's, and I think American hops.  The color was slightly
light for an IPA.
4. Velvet Pale Ale - 8 - this is their best beer IMHO (at least that day).
Very clean PA with an unconventional (and surprisingly pleasant) nitro tap.
Very unique.
5. Amber Ale - 7 - almost too hoppy for an amber - rather the hopping level
of an IPA.
6. Scarlet Letter Alt - 6 - close to style in taste but light in color
(12-15 SRM).  Definitely the "old" flavor of alt.
7. Multnomah Porter - 6 - fairly close to style - too hoppy for my tastes.
8. Morrison Street Stout - 4 - noticeable antiseptic phenolic flavors.

They had nice T-Shirts, too.

David Sweeney
Texas A&M University
david at studentlife.tamu.edu



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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:08:43 -0500
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Which pitch?


So when you make a starter, what do you pitch?  I generally start with 1/3
cup of dry malt in 1 pint of water, then juice it nightly with a similar
mixture (and on brew day), for a total of about two to three quarts of
liquid.  I add it all, including the liquid.  Should I be decanting it and
pitching only the stuff that accumulates on the bottom?

BTW, I thought the wyeast bit on washing/prepping yeast for reuse was a bit
hard to find.  The key was the site map.  The link itself is
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm.  I'm not sure I understand this
procedure, all this effort to separate the yeast from the hops and trub.
Hops?  Trub?  Most of us won't have hops in our fermenters, least of all
loose.  And what the heck constitutes trub in the fermenter?   In the
boiler, I'd say it's hop residue, hot break and cold break.  But in the
fermenter???  What's the difference between dead yeast and dormant yeast?  I
don't think I understand all that I know about this ... and it's starting to
sound like I don't even know much.  So enlighten me, bretheren.  Thanks.


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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:40:47 -0600
From: "Stephen Lane" <stephenl at mailprint.com>
Subject: false bottom spacing

With the recent post on manifold vs. false bottom, what does the collective
see as the optimal height that the false bottom should be off of the floor
of the mash tun.  I have a phil's plastic bottom in my Gott that is only
3/4" from the floor to pick up but I see stainless false bottoms with legs
supporting them as much as 2" off of the floor.
I have built a RIMS and designed my stainless false bottom off of the
plastic false bottom and I seem to get stuck recirc's often.  This is
installed in a 1/2 barrel keg, top cutout,,,, you get the picture. The false
bottom is made from 66% open material and is only 1/2" off the floor of the
keg.
 I do not run the pump wide open and am getting stuck recircs. using 20 lb.
of 2 row and 1 lb. carapil.  I do have braided plastic hi temp hose between
the pump and the tun and this is where the problem is detected with a
collapsed hose.
1)  Should I redesign the false bottom to be further off the floor and
larger in diameter so as to touch the side walls?
2)  Should I not be using flexible tubing at the input of the pump?
3)  Should I get over it and buy a "real" false bottom with the flared lip
to seal to the bottom?
TIA



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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 09:11:45 +1030
From: Philip Ritson <philip.ritson at adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Australian Barley


South Australian Farmers are beginning to replace the familiar Schooner
and Franklin varieties with 2 new varieties.  Sloop is replacing
Schooner and Gairdner is replacing Franklin.
 
see: http//www.pir.sa.gov.au/dhtml/ss/section.php?sectID=327&tempID=11
under Barley for information

Does anyone know anything about these varieties?  Are they just two more
high yield low taste rubbish varieties or is one of them an Australian
Marris Otter (OK a Joke-as if!).


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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 12:32:23 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Pleasures of a new Tun

A few digests back Graham reported having a good brew day last
Saturday.  Well the brewing gods must have been smiling on the whole
east coast of oz that day, because I also had a ripper of a session.

And it is all due to me making a maiden voyage in my new Mash/Lauter
tun.  

I am a bit ashamed to confess that I have been giving advice, to all who
asked, on the best way to convert kegs and so on; while all the time I
have been stuck with a 'bucket-in-bucket' device.  Now don't get me
wrong, it has performed admirably, but it was pretty laborious mashing
in a small cooler and then scooping the mash into the zapap to sparge. 
Did the job for 5 gal batches, but when I moved to a 60l brew length, it
turned into a nightmare of jugs, buckets, various holding vessels and
slopped and aerated wort everywhere.  Reminded me of when I first
started and needed to use every vessel that I could lay my hands on
during a brew session.

Anyway, "this wasted effort must stop", I said to myself and followed my
own advice and cut the top out of a suitable 50 litre keg, drilled 2
clean holes to take 1/2 " stainless sockets (a drain at the bottom and a
sparge water inlet at the top) and took it to my friendly local welder.

I wrapped a foil coated fibreglass bat around the outside and it lost
not one single degree of temperature during the 90 min mash.

Plumbing consists of a ball valve and hose barb on the outside, with a
DUMP (TM) (ie Dogleg Udapter Mash Processor) on the inside.  This looks
very much like the device illustrated on Jack Smiddling's page.  Mine
consists of a brass compression fitting, stainless tube bent to allow a
rolled stainless screen (Termite Mesh) to sit flat on the keg bottom.

Dough-in was perfect with the liquor being pumped in below the grain
through the screen.  The initial runoff was cloudy but cleared up a bit
(although not perfect) after about 5 litres.  The grist was 1/3 wheat
2/3 lager malt.  I do tend to get a fair bit of flour in my crush as
this is what my Corona is good at.

The only area for improvement was in the run-off, which started fine but
then slowed to a trickle.  Back flushing with a bit of water cleared the
blockage for a few minutes until it stuck again.  I bit more flushing
using a higher pressure and I was away with crystal clear runoff until
the end.

A question for those who use similar combination mash/lauter tuns -
during/after the mash do you stir or just let it sit and then commence
the runoff ?  Next time I will try stirring and then let it settle to
get the fine particles up to the top of the bed, but what do you do ?

Hope you can help....

David Lamotte
Now Brewing in all Stainless
Newcastle N.S.W. Australia


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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:10:13 -0700
From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at uswest.net>
Subject: Posing a poser (not a poseur)


OK, I was bored.

Thought I'd liven things up, ask a good (beer-related, or
beer-keeping-related) question.

You see, I was force-carbonating a keg t'other day, and I thought:

What is the volume level of beer (pick a keg, I was using a Corny, but the
question applies to Sankes and other kegs), in percentage of height, whereas
a minimum amount of CO2 can be used to carbonate the keg to a given level?

I bet the answer is one of those physical (physics) oddities where the ratio
of volume above to (uncarbonated) beer below is fixed wrt the carbonation
level desired (or pressure target).  That is, it is likely dependent on the
pressure target only, but possibly on temperature.  I bet (just a hunch)
it's not dependent on keg diameter/radius.


Actually, this is probably pretty useful for folks in a hurry to carbonate
beer with (say) a real long trip to go to get more CO2... or breweries like
Bud...




Anyway, I thought we all on HBD might get some entertainment out of the
question.


BTW, I don't know the answer (yet).




Dave Howell

Amidst the Saguaro and ocotillo (and scorpions, coyotes, man-eating
crickets, and rattlesnakes, for you Aussies), in the Sonoran Desert, very
far from the center of the brewing universe.  But the weather's fine!




Costello: You know I'm a catcher too.
Abbott: So they tell me.
Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's
pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts
the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw
the guy out at first. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who?
Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right.

Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about!




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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:41:41 -0800
From: "D. Schultz" <d2schultz at qwest.net>
Subject: 

I picked up 3 gear motors on Ebay to use for various tasks for my brewing
equipment. They were listed as being 115V AC. The three wires are yellow,
red and blue-green in color. Any ideas on how to wire them for use? The
motor is a GE 5KCP15HG34T.

I was thinking of using one for my grain mill. It is listed as having an RPM
of 29. Any reason why I would need to use different pulley sizes to increase
the speed? It would be great if I could hook up some type of coupling and
use the motor without any pulleys or belts.

 -Dan




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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:02:40 EST
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
Subject: BarKeepers Friend

HBD,

I have been unable to locate Barkeepers Friend in any of the stores I've 
tried. Can some-one please point me to a what stores/departments I should be 
looking in.

Thanks,
Dana
PS: While I'm asking, where should  I look for Damp-Rid, which I will need 
soon.

- ------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, Oceanside CA
http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle


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