---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  re: mash hopping ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: Yeast Washing (John_E_Schnupp)
  Barkeepers Friend (Rod Prather)
  re: Celis brewery closing ("Kensler, Paul")
  How much Iodaphor? ("Branam, Mike")
  SS False Bottoms (Richard Foote)
  Cooling and warming and cooling of beer? (Kb9ve0)
  GABF Winners (kbooth)
  Celis (Doug Hurst)
  Re: cloudy Star San ("Brian Lundeen")
  Re: False Bottoms (Rob Dewhirst)
  War Of The Worts VI - Philadelphia Area (JOHN VARADY)
  Einstein's Garage ("Greenly, Jeff")
  Re:  Celis no mas? ("Bret Mayden")
  Re:  Silicon and lauter tuns ("Bret Mayden")
  smoked beer...Finally (djazzie)
  Fact vs Superstition (Joseph Kish)


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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 03:13:25 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: mash hopping

Marc Hawley writes ...

>I have seen conflicting reports on the technique of mash hopping. IMHO it
>works.

>[...] 4 ounces of Kent
>Goldings pellets were stirred into the mash.
 ...
>3 ounces of Chinook pellets were added to the boil at 60 minutes. No other
>hop additions.
>
>The hop flavor, as opposed to bitterness, seems quite evident and
enjoyable.

Neat - but it the flavor Golding or Chinooks ?  It should be trivially easy
to tell.

 -S












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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:30:28 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: Yeast Washing

Glen said this about John Peed's question:

>Some add it all, some chill & decant.  If you add it all, keep the starter
>wort "generic" or similar in nature to your batch.  The good thing about
>using this method is that you can add very active yeasts to your fermenter
>and the lag times will be very low.  The drawback is that the beer in the
>starter may not have the same flavor as your batch and it's addition may
>effect the overall flavor of the batch.  If you chill and decant, you avoid
>the whole flavor quandry but you may shock the yeasts into a dormant state,
>possibly even kill a bunch of them off.  Hence, lag times will be longer.
>Whatever you do, don't pour off and discard the liquid of an ale yeast
>starter (unless it was previously chilled).  Being a top fermenting yeast,
>you will just have dumped out the cream of the crop.

My starters are continuously stirred.  This ensures the yeast is well mixed.
What I do instead of chilling is simply to allow the starter to rest for
24-48 hours before decanting.  This is usually plenty of time to allow the
yeast to settle.  I typically get about 1/2" of yeast on the bottom of a
4L wine jug.  I then add about 1 qt of fresh starter sometime between starting
my mash and starting the boil.  I give it a good stir and by the time I'm
ready to pitch the yeast is at full trot.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 06:48:42 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Barkeepers Friend

I wondered why no one could find Barkeepers Friend.  It's in all of our local
grocery stores.  Everyone here carries it.  Then I realized that Bert Servaas on
our Indy City Council owns the company.  DUH!!!!

Think maybe he should be making sales calls to some Home Brew shops????
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana


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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:27:35 -0500 
From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler at Cyberstar.com>
Subject: re: Celis brewery closing

Regarding the closing of the Celis brewery, I've known about these rumors
for a few months...  ever since Miller took a growing business and reduced
their production by 35%... ever since Miller fired the entire Celis family
and sent them packing out the doors of the building that bears their name.

At least as far as my "dollar vote" goes, I won't buy any Miller or
Miller-owned products.


Paul Kensler
Disgruntled ex-Texan living in Gaithersburg, MD


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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 10:51:11 -0500 
From: "Branam, Mike" <Mike.Branam at BellSouth.COM>
Subject: How much Iodaphor?

How much iodaphor do I need for a 6 gallon carboy if I want to drip dry and
not rinse afterward?



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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 10:54:20 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: SS False Bottoms

Walt Lewis writes:

>So with the recent EXCELENT article on fluid flow I think it might be
>time to consider a SS false bottom for my converted Sanke system.

>The question is who's false bottom works best/has been successful for
>those in this group.

>Please post experience/sources/design for SS false bottoms.



I have seen and used several false bottoms, ss and otherwise, over the
years.  

1. Phils Phalse Bottom in a 5 gal round Igloo water cooler (you know, those
orange ones)
2. Stainless in Seattle ss false bottom/keg (friend's brewery)
3. Homemade ss false bottom in converted keg

I'm sure everyone is familiar with the Phil's.  Some explanation of 2 and 3
is needed, however. 

2. The S in S is the standard punched stainless flat sheet with round
holes.  Estimated diameter of holes is in the 1/16" to 3/32" range.  The
diameter of the false bottom is such that it lacks about 3" around its
circumference of being the full diameter of the keg.  It sits on the
downward domed portion, resting on its edge.  A ss goose neck dip tube
sticks down the hole in the center to siphon out wort.  There is very
little volume under the screen.

3. My homemade design fills the complete diameter of the keg.  The
converted keg I use has the largest diameter in it's middle third as
compared to the more modern straight sided ones.  I use a gasket of split
clear PVC hose to seal around the edges and wedge it down in.  It sits
about 2" above the bottom.  BTW, I also use such a gasket on my Phalse
Bottom.  Hole sizes are similar to "2" above.  The outlet for the wort is
at the bottom center via a 3/8" hole.


Performance Observations:

1. Works great.  Gasket helps wedge it down in to prevent Phloating.
Clears quickly with little recirculation.  No stuck mashes with
conventional barley malt mashes even when filled to the brim of the tun.

2. Works great.  Runs crystal clear with only 1 quart or so recirculated
(must be due to small volume under it).  Stays running clear for duration
of run off.  Not prone to stuck mashes.  Has handled 44 lb grain bill (100%
barley malt).

3. Works well.  Due to the large volume under false bottom, recirculation
never seems to clear the run off.  It improves but not to the degree of
clarity of the other two.  Also, sometimes back pressure via a well-placed
blow of air expelled from the lungs through the attached PVC tubing is
needed to initiate flow.  This design is prone to channeling along the keg
wall.  Periodic stirring of the top 4" or so of the grain bed is needed to
counter this tendency.  Stuck mashes occur on occasion, perhaps due to the
bottom outlet design.

I plan to build a new mash/lauter tun soon incorporating design features of
no. 2.

My 2 cents.  Hope this helps.  I'm also interested in hearing about other
designs.


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing and Home Remodeling
Murrayville, GA 







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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:10:35 EST
From: Kb9ve0 at aol.com
Subject: Cooling and warming and cooling of beer?

Hello all.
    I have a question that may be obvious and/or stupid but here goes. I only 
have room in my fridge for 1 of my cornies at a time, will it ruin the beer I 
have in the fridge now if I take it out and put my new keg of beer in. 
    I have always heard people say that if you chilled commercially bought 
beer and then got it warm again that it would ruin it. Is this really true 
and would it spoil my HB? The keg only has CO2 in it so no chance for 
oxidation. If it does spoil the beer what causes it? it can't be o2 and if 
the beer is not infected now it will still be clean in a couple weeks when I 
put it back in. So is this true or just beer bunk?
Andy
Bedford IN


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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:26:14 -0400
From: kbooth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: GABF Winners

T I P W O R L D   
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- ------------------------------------------------------------

 
=============================================================== 
TODAY'S TIP: GREAT AMERICAN BEER FESTIVAL WINNERS 
 
by Susan Reigler  
 
There were more than 1,700 entries in 55 categories at this year's 
Great American Beer Festival held in Denver in October. A quick check 
of the list of winners reveals the names of many tiny craft brewers 
whose products are available only in their storefronts. We hope that 
many of them will start to enjoy some wider distribution in the coming 
months, due to their medal-winning fame. (And I'll provide tasting 
notes as I encounter them.) The list of winners is too long to include 
in even a multi-part tip, so check them out at  

http://www.gabf.org/GABF/00winners.htm



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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:43:24 -0600 
From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Celis


Kevin Mueller forwarded us this sad message:

"Miller shuts taps on Austin's Celis Brewery Big brewer to close Austin
operation and try to sell it and Celis trademark."
<http://www.localbusiness.com/eStory/0,1533,AUS_522153,00.html> 


A friend of mine in Seattle had this to say:

"Oh, that is just wrong.

You want proof that Miller had no idea what to do with Celis?  They didn't
export it to Washington, one of the, oh, 3 biggest beer-loving states in the
nation.

At least I was heartened to see that Miller is planning to concentrate on
its core interests.  Like Icehouse and Milwaukee's Best.  That'll please the
Phillip Morris shareholders, I'm sure."

Rant time:

This is the problem with large corporations.  The homogenization of products
with no concept that a smaller market share product which actually has some
flavor/character/uniqueness is worthwhile.  All they see is the bottom line.
This is the down side of a free market IMHO and is why I hate conglomerates.
Microsoft is another example.  They seemed dumbfounded by the fact that
people find them distasteful.  They would claim that the consumer drives the
market.  Let me ask this: would the consumer buy more MGD if Celis was the
mass marketed, commonly available product and MGD was only available at a
small number of stores?  Another example:  Who decides what clothes are
fashionable/commonly available, the consumer or the retailer/manufacturer
that stocks the shelves?

I mean, there's nothing wrong with conglomerates and their homogeny on face
value.  What's wrong is buying out smaller companies with decent, unique
products and destroying them in the name of competition.  Come on, it's not
like Celis was actually cutting into Millers market share before they bought
it.  They complained of a declining market after purchasing Cellis, but how
much did they put into marketing Celis compared to their flagship brands? 

I just hate having my tastes dictated by large company "bean counters" (to
coin a phrase).  I guess this is another of the many reasons I brew my own.

Rant Off.

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL


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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:15:22 -0600
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: cloudy Star San

 Frank Tutzauer writes of his cloudy Star San:

> My questions are, first what made it go
> cloudy so quickly (it was a clean but unsanitized pot), and second,
> how much additional concentrate can I add before I jeopardize its
> no-rinse properties?  Ok, one more question:  Does it still sanitize if
> cloudy, say with a longer contact time or something?

My experience with Star San is that mixing it in water makes it go cloudy.
Seriously, I have never had a batch of Star San stay clear. I go by the pH,
which Five Star says should be 2.9 or lower to be effective. I have never
had a solution even come close to that high a level, even after sitting in a
pail for a few weeks.

Now, on a totally separate topic, I'm glad to see the HBD has at least found
its way back into rec.crafts.brewing, if not into my personal email space as
yet. (Tap.. tap.. tap..) That web based version just gives me a headache.
Personally, I suspect a conspiracy on the part of the official digest
sponsor to keep the Digest out of my reach because of all the nice things I
say about Paddock Wood (NAJASCYYY) but I have no proof of this at this time.
;-)

Cheers,
Brian



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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 13:26:40 -0600
From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: False Bottoms


>
>From: Mjbrewit at aol.com
>
>http://www.kegs.com/falsebottom.html
>
>I have no affiliation, just a satisfied customer.  I can not imagine anything
>that could be done to improve on it.  And the price is competitive at $59.

I can think of one very important thing the Sabco false bottoms can improve 
on.

Center support.

I have two of these, and they both collapsed (the hinges "sprung") under 
only about 10 lbs of grain in my RIMS.

They work extremely well if you cut a small piece of 2" brew-safe pipe and 
place it on-end the center under the false bottom as a support.  Cut holes 
in it if you need flow-through.  It's a shame they don't sell these 
supports with the screens.





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Date:  4 Dec 00 14:33:26 MST
From: JOHN VARADY <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: War Of The Worts VI - Philadelphia Area

The Keystone Hops Homebrew Club is proud to announce that the sixth annual
War Of The Worts Homebrew Competition will be held on Saturday, February
3rd at the The Drafting Room, in Springhouse PA. Judging starts promptly
at 9 am, and, the winners will be announced at about 4:30 pm that afternoon.

Complete contest rules, entry forms, and BJCP style guides may be found
on line at http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/worts6.htm. The entry fee is
$6 for the first entry, and $5 for each subsequent entry accompanying
the first. Two 10-16 ounce bottles (brown or green glass) are required per
entry.

This announcement also serves as a call to Judges and Stewards. Volunteers
may register on line at http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/judgereg.htm, or
send an email to Nate Brese at Nathaniel_Brese at rohmhaas.com indicating the
position desired. Judges should arrive at the competition location by 9:00
am the day of the competition.

Hope To See You There,

John Varady
rust1d at usa.net

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1


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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:31:18 -0500 
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: Einstein's Garage

</decloaking>

Hi all,

I was out hunting around for gadgetry and found a really cool website. It
seems to be a clearing house for surplus stuff from several scientific
equipment manufacturers like Fisher. It's an eBay-style format with lots of
large lots of glassware and stuff. By the way, I am in no way affiliated
with the site or Fisher Scientific, yada, yada, yada. The URL is:

www.einsteinsgarage.com

++++++++++

Jeff

</cloaking>


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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:10:51 -0600
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at keytech.com>
Subject: Re:  Celis no mas?

Yeah, I knew when Miller bought out Celis that no good could come out of it.
One more victim of the big boys.  Maybe if they were as aggressive in
marketing real beer as they are at carbonated cow piss, the market segment
would be bigger & profitable.

Bret Mayden
brmayden at hotmail.com


- ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 09:58:53 -0700
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Celis no mas?

Has everyone seen this??

 http://www.localbusiness.com/Story/Print/0,1197,AUS_522153,00.html

 - --
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com







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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:21:14 -0600
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at keytech.com>
Subject: Re:  Silicon and lauter tuns

I don't know if there is a food grade silicone (technically called RTV, or
room temperature vulcanized).  However, you may find it useful to know that
there are 2 major types of RTV base on their curing properties.  The type
most people use (like you buy at the hardware or auto parts store) releases
acetic acid when it cures (the same acid in vinegar,which accounts for the
familiar smell when you open a tube).  If you are worried about corrosion,
then this is not the stuff to use.  The other type of RTV is non-corrosive &
releases no acetic acid as it cures. It is much harder to find. A lot of
electronic parts dealers carry it.If you need a source for the non-corrosive
type, let me know.

Bret Mayden
brmayden at hotmail.com





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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:47:48 -0500
From: djazzie at juno.com
Subject: smoked beer...Finally

well, I finally tasted one of those smoked beers I brewed up a while
back.  Thanks to all those who helped me formulate the recipe.  The
results:  Damn good!  possibly the best tasting beer I've ever made.  Now
here's the conundrum:  At bottling, I tasted it and it tasted almost
exactly like Adelscott (the particular brand Iwas trying to emulate). 
Now, a little more than 2 weeks in the bottle, and it tastes more like a
wit! (think blue moon's belgian) which is even stranger, since the
ingredients for a wit are pretty different.  What could have happened?  


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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 19:19:29 +0000
From: Joseph Kish <jjkish at att.net>
Subject: Fact vs Superstition

Ken Schwartz says elephants oxide on thier hot side.
  I disagree.
Elephants aerate on thier hot side!  It's called
 "Hot Side Aeriation"!!

 Joe Kish


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